Re: Htmlize support, maintenance, and Org mode (was: [MAINTENANCE] Org orphanage?)

[Jonas Bernoulli]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Jonas Bernoulli  writes:
>
>> `htmlize' is currently maintained at https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize
>> but its maintainer hasn't been responding to any issues and pull-requests
>> for quite some time now and seems to be inactive on Github altogether.
>
> Hmm... Org has built-in htmlize support and I did not know that it is
> not maintained actively.

I only installed htmlize because org-html-fontify-code told me to do so.
Should it not have done that?  I did not have any version of htmlize
installed prior to this.

>> Regardless of where this package will eventually end up being
>> maintained, it would be a good idea to keep it on Github at least until
>> most of the issues and pull-requests that have already been opened there
>> have been resolved.
>
> Or we can simply hand-pick that 13 open Github issues and transfer them
> manually. (Does not mean that we have to do it, but I see not why having
> a few issues on Github should be a blocker to anything)

The idea was to let those who have already opened pull-requests on
Github and have been patiently waiting for a response ever since, to
finish the work there.

Re: Htmlize support, maintenance, and Org mode

[Timothy]

Hi All,

I'm currently traveling, but it seems like it would be good to chime in here.

On Mon, Aug 14, 2023, at 5:22 PM, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> Bastien Guerry  writes:
>
>> If not, then relying on engrave-faces, which is maintained and also
>> handles LaTeX, instead of htmlize, sounds like a good idea.
>
> I'd like to hear Timothy's opinion on this. He is the author of
> engrave-faces and the maintainer of ox-html.

So, I looked into htmlfontify ans htmlize quite a bit before and during my work 
on engrave-faces. I've forgotten quite a few of the details (particularly 
around internals) by this point, but still recall a fair bit and have an 
overall impression.

Engrave-faces heavily inspired by htmlize, and actually copies some methods 
from it. It was created to address two limitations I was running up against:
- The lack of support for other output formats
- The lack of support for not-the-current theme output

At this point, it's fairly stable and supports a superset of the capabilities 
of htmlize. It's a bit slower ATM, but I haven't found performance to be an 
issue in usage with Org exports. There are one or two more things it would be 
nice to do in future, but I don't anticipate any need to change the current 
public API.

I think it would make quite a bit of sense for it to be used more with Org, we 
can use it to provide a unified approach to source code highlighting. Currently 
this would just be LaTeX and HTML, but I'd like to extend code highlighting 
support to ASCII and ODT exports later on.

All the best,
Timothy.

Re: Htmlize support, maintenance, and Org mode

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Bastien Guerry  writes:
>
>> If not, then relying on engrave-faces, which is maintained and also
>> handles LaTeX, instead of htmlize, sounds like a good idea.
>
> I'd like to hear Timothy's opinion on this. He is the author of
> engrave-faces and the maintainer of ox-html.

Sure!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Htmlize support, maintenance, and Org mode

[Ihor Radchenko]

Bastien Guerry  writes:

> It looks like engrave-faces already does a better job than htmlize.el,
> and does it for LaTeX too, I see no drawback in using engrave-faces as
> a replacement of htmlize.el.  Are there any?

engrave-faces is technically in "beta".
(https://github.com/tecosaur/engrave-faces)
Also, we need to carefully study if there are any missing features
compared to htmlize.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at 

Re: Htmlize support, maintenance, and Org mode

[Ihor Radchenko]

Bastien Guerry  writes:

> If not, then relying on engrave-faces, which is maintained and also
> handles LaTeX, instead of htmlize, sounds like a good idea.

I'd like to hear Timothy's opinion on this. He is the author of
engrave-faces and the maintainer of ox-html.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at 

Re: Htmlize support, maintenance, and Org mode

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> That's what I meant. The latest thread named some issue with fine-tuning
> the output and never got any follow-up.

(Please ignore my suggestion to explore the htmlfontify.el scenario.)

>>> As for engrave-faces, it is working for both LaTeX and HTML export.
>>
>> Would that have the same issue has htmlize, that it copies the colours
>> from the currently active theme, causing issues when exporting a website
>> while a dark-theme is enabled?
>
> No. It can copy the current theme, but it is not the default. Instead,
> engrave-faces provides customization on how the faces should be
> re-mapped. Defaults are tuned to work for usual white backgrounds, but
> can be customized either using existing Emacs themes, or by hand,
> mapping Emacs faces to text colors and attributes.

It looks like engrave-faces already does a better job than htmlize.el,
and does it for LaTeX too, I see no drawback in using engrave-faces as
a replacement of htmlize.el.  Are there any?

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Htmlize support, maintenance, and Org mode

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> That's fine to install htmlize. Org relies upon htmlize for certain
> features, including HTML export.

A while ago, it has been suggested to rely on htmlfontify.el, which is
part of Emacs core, instead of htmlize.el.

Maybe this is still relevant?

If not, then relying on engrave-faces, which is maintained and also
handles LaTeX, instead of htmlize, sounds like a good idea.

2 cts,

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Htmlize support, maintenance, and Org mode

[Ihor Radchenko]

Philip Kaludercic  writes:

>> Nicolas once tried to port htmlize support into htmlfontify [1], but it
>> did not go well [2].
>>
>> [1] https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/874lnw5rfi@nicolasgoaziou.fr/
>> [2] https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/874ldzovv4@nicolasgoaziou.fr/
>
> How come you infer that it didn't go that well?  It just seems incomplete?

That's what I meant. The latest thread named some issue with fine-tuning
the output and never got any follow-up.

>> As for engrave-faces, it is working for both LaTeX and HTML export.
>
> Would that have the same issue has htmlize, that it copies the colours
> from the currently active theme, causing issues when exporting a website
> while a dark-theme is enabled?

No. It can copy the current theme, but it is not the default. Instead,
engrave-faces provides customization on how the faces should be
re-mapped. Defaults are tuned to work for usual white backgrounds, but
can be customized either using existing Emacs themes, or by hand,
mapping Emacs faces to text colors and attributes.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at 

Re: Htmlize support, maintenance, and Org mode

[Philip Kaludercic]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Philip Kaludercic  writes:
>
>>> We might consider extending engrave-faces to cover all the htmlize
>>> features.
>>
>> Perhaps I missed something, but is there an issue with the built-in
>> `htmlfontify'?
>
> Org uses htmlize historically.
> Nicolas once tried to port htmlize support into htmlfontify [1], but it
> did not go well [2].
>
> [1] https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/874lnw5rfi@nicolasgoaziou.fr/
> [2] https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/874ldzovv4@nicolasgoaziou.fr/

How come you infer that it didn't go that well?  It just seems incomplete?

> As for engrave-faces, it is working for both LaTeX and HTML export.

Would that have the same issue has htmlize, that it copies the colours
from the currently active theme, causing issues when exporting a website
while a dark-theme is enabled?

Re: Htmlize support, maintenance, and Org mode

[Ihor Radchenko]

Philip Kaludercic  writes:

>> We might consider extending engrave-faces to cover all the htmlize
>> features.
>
> Perhaps I missed something, but is there an issue with the built-in
> `htmlfontify'?

Org uses htmlize historically.
Nicolas once tried to port htmlize support into htmlfontify [1], but it
did not go well [2].

[1] https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/874lnw5rfi@nicolasgoaziou.fr/
[2] https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/874ldzovv4@nicolasgoaziou.fr/

As for engrave-faces, it is working for both LaTeX and HTML export.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at 

Re: Htmlize support, maintenance, and Org mode

[Philip Kaludercic]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Jonas Bernoulli  writes:
>
>> `htmlize' is currently maintained at https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize
>> but its maintainer hasn't been responding to any issues and pull-requests
>> for quite some time now and seems to be inactive on Github altogether.
>
> Hmm... Org has built-in htmlize support and I did not know that it is
> not maintained actively.
>
> Note that Timothy wrote https://github.com/tecosaur/engrave-faces that
> provides similar functionality but not just for HTML.
>
> We might consider extending engrave-faces to cover all the htmlize
> features.

Perhaps I missed something, but is there an issue with the built-in
`htmlfontify'?

Re: Htmlize support, maintenance, and Org mode (was: [MAINTENANCE] Org orphanage?)

[Ihor Radchenko]

Jonas Bernoulli  writes:

>> Hmm... Org has built-in htmlize support and I did not know that it is
>> not maintained actively.
>
> I only installed htmlize because org-html-fontify-code told me to do so.
> Should it not have done that?  I did not have any version of htmlize
> installed prior to this.

That's fine to install htmlize. Org relies upon htmlize for certain
features, including HTML export.

However, we also recently added engrave-faces for LaTeX export. And
engrave-faces is advertised as successor to htmlize. So, we might
consider (in future) to offer engrave-faces as another option to export
HTML as well. (This idea has nothing to do with helping to maintain
htmlize - it will be relevant for a long time at least for users of
older Org versions, even if we decide to use engrave-faces instead of
htmlize).

>> Or we can simply hand-pick that 13 open Github issues and transfer them
>> manually. (Does not mean that we have to do it, but I see not why having
>> a few issues on Github should be a blocker to anything)
>
> The idea was to let those who have already opened pull-requests on
> Github and have been patiently waiting for a response ever since, to
> finish the work there.

Good point. Although all the pull requests appear to be rather trivial
from the first glance. Let's see if Hrvoje has anything to say.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at 

Re: Htmlize support, maintenance, and Org mode (was: [MAINTENANCE] Org orphanage?)

[Samuel Wales]

[fyi that is probably not related: i use htmlize.el for functions it
has that allow you to copy a region omitting invisible parts.  e.g.
partly folded magit.  i haven't found other code that workd for that
and myb rain could not construct any.]


On 8/13/23, Ihor Radchenko  wrote:
> Jonas Bernoulli  writes:
>
>> `htmlize' is currently maintained at
>> https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize
>> but its maintainer hasn't been responding to any issues and pull-requests
>> for quite some time now and seems to be inactive on Github altogether.
>
> Hmm... Org has built-in htmlize support and I did not know that it is
> not maintained actively.
>
> Note that Timothy wrote https://github.com/tecosaur/engrave-faces that
> provides similar functionality but not just for HTML.
>
> We might consider extending engrave-faces to cover all the htmlize
> features.
>
>> Regardless of where this package will eventually end up being
>> maintained, it would be a good idea to keep it on Github at least until
>> most of the issues and pull-requests that have already been opened there
>> have been resolved.
>
> Or we can simply hand-pick that 13 open Github issues and transfer them
> manually. (Does not mean that we have to do it, but I see not why having
> a few issues on Github should be a blocker to anything)
>
>> It seems to me it would be a good idea if Hrvoje gave one or more Org
>> maintainer commit access to this repository.  Alternatively we could
>> maintain it at https://github.com/emacsorphanage/htmlize, and I could
>> take care of giving commit access, but in that case Hrvoje would also
>> have to get involved briefly at least, to transfer the repository to
>> that organization.
>
> Also an option.
>
> --
> Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
> Org mode contributor,
> Learn more about Org mode at .
> Support Org development at ,
> or support my work at 
>
>


-- 
The Kafka Pandemic

A blog about science, health, human rights, and misopathy:
https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

Htmlize support, maintenance, and Org mode (was: [MAINTENANCE] Org orphanage?)

[Ihor Radchenko]

Jonas Bernoulli  writes:

> `htmlize' is currently maintained at https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize
> but its maintainer hasn't been responding to any issues and pull-requests
> for quite some time now and seems to be inactive on Github altogether.

Hmm... Org has built-in htmlize support and I did not know that it is
not maintained actively.

Note that Timothy wrote https://github.com/tecosaur/engrave-faces that
provides similar functionality but not just for HTML.

We might consider extending engrave-faces to cover all the htmlize
features.

> Regardless of where this package will eventually end up being
> maintained, it would be a good idea to keep it on Github at least until
> most of the issues and pull-requests that have already been opened there
> have been resolved.

Or we can simply hand-pick that 13 open Github issues and transfer them
manually. (Does not mean that we have to do it, but I see not why having
a few issues on Github should be a blocker to anything)

> It seems to me it would be a good idea if Hrvoje gave one or more Org
> maintainer commit access to this repository.  Alternatively we could
> maintain it at https://github.com/emacsorphanage/htmlize, and I could
> take care of giving commit access, but in that case Hrvoje would also
> have to get involved briefly at least, to transfer the repository to
> that organization.

Also an option.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at