Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-28 Thread Leslie Watter
A vote for A from me.
I prefer light backgrounds when navigating except on image galleries.

Cheers,

Leslie


On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 11:07 PM Samuel Wales  wrote:

> i am lost about a and b and 1-2 and so on.
>
> but  i went to a tecosaur site and noticed that the old unicorn
> covering text when you use large fonts or have a low dpi monitor is no
> longer a problem, whihc is good.  i'd suggest high contrast, light on
> dark, preferably with no glaring whites anywhere.
>
> i probably didn't address any of hte questions though.  :)
>
>
> On 9/24/20, Ihor Radchenko  wrote:
> >> You can find the final 3 concepts here: https://0x0.st/ilFH.pdf, once
> >> again I'd like to encourage any feedback, and ranking of the options.
> >
> > I like A and B with slight preference towards B.
> >
> > Also, the website renders strangely in qutebrowser (see the attached
> > screenshot). Firefox renders everything just fine on the same system.
> >
> > Best,
> > Ihor
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> The Kafka Pandemic
>
> Please learn what misopathy is.
>
> https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com/2013/10/why-some-diseases-are-wronged.html
>
>

-- 
Leslie H. Watter


Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-24 Thread Samuel Wales
i am lost about a and b and 1-2 and so on.

but  i went to a tecosaur site and noticed that the old unicorn
covering text when you use large fonts or have a low dpi monitor is no
longer a problem, whihc is good.  i'd suggest high contrast, light on
dark, preferably with no glaring whites anywhere.

i probably didn't address any of hte questions though.  :)


On 9/24/20, Ihor Radchenko  wrote:
>> You can find the final 3 concepts here: https://0x0.st/ilFH.pdf, once
>> again I'd like to encourage any feedback, and ranking of the options.
>
> I like A and B with slight preference towards B.
>
> Also, the website renders strangely in qutebrowser (see the attached
> screenshot). Firefox renders everything just fine on the same system.
>
> Best,
> Ihor
>
>


-- 
The Kafka Pandemic

Please learn what misopathy is.
https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com/2013/10/why-some-diseases-are-wronged.html



Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-24 Thread Ihor Radchenko
> You can find the final 3 concepts here: https://0x0.st/ilFH.pdf, once
> again I'd like to encourage any feedback, and ranking of the options.

I like A and B with slight preference towards B.

Also, the website renders strangely in qutebrowser (see the attached
screenshot). Firefox renders everything just fine on the same system.

Best,
Ihor



TEC  writes:

> An update.
>
> 1. We have a volunteer for a Japanese translator (yay!),
>still looking for a french one
> 2. Following the community opinions and feedback on the designs
>presented, further iteration has occurred and 20 concepts have been
>reduced to the three most promising candidates.
>I now have a final 3 - the first two are the best ideas from the
>last selection, the third is a new idea.
>
> You can find the final 3 concepts here: https://0x0.st/ilFH.pdf, once
> again I'd like to encourage any feedback, and ranking of the options.
>
> Unless anything else crops up, I don't anticipate any other major
> changes being made.
>
> All the best,
>
> Timothy.


Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-24 Thread Carsten Dominik
Hi

A or B, no strong preference.

About the text, maybe we can change the "there are dozens of them", that
struck me as a bit odd.  Because what is a "feature".

Maybe
Features - which subset will you use?
Features - something for everyone
Features - start digging

I don't know...

Cheers

Carsten

On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 6:42 PM Nick Dokos  wrote:

> Nix on variant C from me.
>
> Slight lean towards B, but I personally would be happy with either A or B.
>
> Thanks!
> --
> Nick
>
> "There are only two hard problems in computer science: cache
> invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors." -Martin Fowler
>
>
>


Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-24 Thread Tom Gillespie
A vote for A from me. I think that using the light background for the
section above the fold fits better with the color themes of the other
pages and will make the transition less jarring. Best!
Tom

On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 9:20 AM TEC  wrote:
>
>
> An update.
>
> 1. We have a volunteer for a Japanese translator (yay!),
>still looking for a french one
> 2. Following the community opinions and feedback on the designs
>presented, further iteration has occurred and 20 concepts have been
>reduced to the three most promising candidates.
>I now have a final 3 - the first two are the best ideas from the
>last selection, the third is a new idea.
>
> You can find the final 3 concepts here: https://0x0.st/ilFH.pdf, once
> again I'd like to encourage any feedback, and ranking of the options.
>
> Unless anything else crops up, I don't anticipate any other major
> changes being made.
>
> All the best,
>
> Timothy.
>



Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-24 Thread Nick Dokos


"collapsable" should be "collapsible".

-- 
Nick

"There are only two hard problems in computer science: cache
invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors." -Martin Fowler




Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-24 Thread Nick Dokos
Nix on variant C from me.

Slight lean towards B, but I personally would be happy with either A or B.

Thanks!
-- 
Nick

"There are only two hard problems in computer science: cache
invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors." -Martin Fowler




Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-24 Thread Palak Mathur



> On Sep 24, 2020, at 8:20 AM, TEC  wrote:
> 
> 
> An update.
> 
> 2. Following the community opinions and feedback on the designs
>   presented, further iteration has occurred and 20 concepts have been
>   reduced to the three most promising candidates.
>   I now have a final 3 - the first two are the best ideas from the
>   last selection, the third is a new idea.
> 
> You can find the final 3 concepts here: https://0x0.st/ilFH.pdf, once
> again I'd like to encourage any feedback, and ranking of the options.
> 

Just keeping up with Parkinson’s Law of Triviality [1], as I don’t have any 
opinion on any other post but this, here it is:
I like both Variant A and B. C not so much. 

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality



> Unless anything else crops up, I don't anticipate any other major
> changes being made.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Timothy.
> 


Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-24 Thread TEC


An update.

1. We have a volunteer for a Japanese translator (yay!),
   still looking for a french one
2. Following the community opinions and feedback on the designs
   presented, further iteration has occurred and 20 concepts have been
   reduced to the three most promising candidates.
   I now have a final 3 - the first two are the best ideas from the
   last selection, the third is a new idea.

You can find the final 3 concepts here: https://0x0.st/ilFH.pdf, once
again I'd like to encourage any feedback, and ranking of the options.

Unless anything else crops up, I don't anticipate any other major
changes being made.

All the best,

Timothy.



Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-24 Thread Devin Prater
Thank you very much for this. I wasn't sure if accessibility was something
you'd care about or not, but I figured I'd give it a shot, as any blind
user of Emacs, through Emacspeak or otherwise, who wanted to get into
Org-mode would appreciate it. One more small thing or two:

On the features page, the description:

Demonstration of planing with org, managing a scheduled todo list

should be:

Demonstration of planning with org, managing a scheduled todo list

After the "simple syntax" heading, the figure is empty. Is that supposed to
be the case?
Devin Prater
sent from Gmail.


On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 6:02 AM TEC  wrote:

>
> Hi Devin, thanks for checking up on this!
>
> Devin Prater  writes:
>
> > [no alt texts for images]
>
> This should be fixed now! (
> https://github.com/tecosaur/orgwebsite/commit/545d0c7d28)
>
> > Also, I cannot find the area to view the Org-mode source of a page.
>
> Ah, yes. This was removed at the request of Bastien.
>
>
> Thanks for your help, and please let me know if you notice anything
> else!
>
> Timothy.
>


Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-24 Thread Greg Newman
This looks great. 2-1 is the one I prefer.

- Greg Newman



On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 10:56 AM TEC  wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
>
>
> I'm pleased to announce that after chatting with Bastien, my
>
> little
>
> revamp project seems to be nearing the point where it may replace
>
> the
>
> current site.
>
>
>
> Two things that would be good to get sorted:
>
>  1. Translation of the index page to French/Japanese ::
>
> I'm english only, and Bastien is busy, so volunteers would be
>
> much appreciated!
>
>  2. Picking the best 'Hero banner' on the home page ::
>
> Concerns were raised over the lack of contrast between the
>
> logo and
>
> the current banner background. I've chatted to someone else
>
> with
>
> some ideas and we've produced a few concepts which we'd like
>
> to get
>
> your feedback on.
>
> See the file attached, and if you could give say your top
>
> three
>
> picks (ordered), and any relevant
>
> reasoning/considerations/comments
>
> that would be great!
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Timothy.
>
>
>
> p.s. I haven't had much luck with attachments in the past, if this
>
> fails
>
> I'll reply with the attachment.
>
>
>
>


Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-24 Thread TEC


Hi Devin, thanks for checking up on this!

Devin Prater  writes:

> [no alt texts for images]

This should be fixed now! 
(https://github.com/tecosaur/orgwebsite/commit/545d0c7d28)

> Also, I cannot find the area to view the Org-mode source of a page.

Ah, yes. This was removed at the request of Bastien.


Thanks for your help, and please let me know if you notice anything
else!

Timothy.



Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-24 Thread David Arroyo Menendez


Another important thing, I will happy if we can add some link to the
spanish version of org guide. You can find the sources in
https://savannah.nongnu.org/git/?group=orgguide-es

Thanks in advance!

-- 
https://damegender.net



Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-24 Thread David Arroyo Menendez
Timothy E Chapman  writes:

> Hi Bastien,
>
> Just remembered I haven't addressed everything you mentioned here.
>
> Bastien  wrote:
>
>> Also, let's remove the mini-unicorn in the top bar, it is redundant
>> and reminds me of the opening of IT Crowd.
>
> Ah yes, I see the resemblance :P I'm not sure this is a good idea though, as
> while this can be seen as redundant on the homepage, the navbar is used on
> every page. Considering that this is a site to help people learn about Org,
> I think that the visual consistency of having it on every page, and
> how that helps reinforce the association between Org and that logo is worth 
> it.
> Having it regularly appear should help it stick.
>
>> - I believe there are too many pages: I'd love the website to be just
>>   one HTML page.  Rich contents should go to Worg and yes, we need to
>>   upgrade Worg's design too. Let's try moving such contents to Worg as
>>   soon as we can -- but this is not a blocker for the switch.
>

It seems a good idea more simple is better. There are many bootstrap
free web designs, it's a good idea for responsive, I'm using this idea
for damegender.net, damewebutils.davidam.com and
damelibraries.davidam.com. My website (davidam.com) is not using
bootstrap and I'm happy with mobiles, too.


> I think a single page might be a bit further than ideal, as I see it a
> 'core' of static pages
> for orgmode.org would be
>  - index/homepage
>  - features
>  - quickstart
>  - install
>

Yes, it sounds a good idea. I would add documentation (manuals, worg)
and community (irc, mailing lists, emacswiki, https://emacs.stackexchange.com/,
telegram, meetups, ...)

> How does that sound to you? Of course, all of this migration to Worg
> can happen after an iniIal switch.
>
>> - For the manual, I'd prefer to use the same design that the one used
>>   on the gnu.org website:
>
> This is quite easy (and not actually part of this branch), I think we
> just need to pass
> --css-ref "https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual.css;
> to the makeinfo/texi2any/texi2html command in
> https://code.orgmode.org/bzg/org-mode/src/master/doc/Makefile
>
> All the best,
>
> Timothy.
>
>

-- 
https://damegender.net



Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-23 Thread Timothy E Chapman
Hi Bastien,

Just remembered I haven't addressed everything you mentioned here.

Bastien  wrote:

> Also, let's remove the mini-unicorn in the top bar, it is redundant
> and reminds me of the opening of IT Crowd.

Ah yes, I see the resemblance :P I'm not sure this is a good idea though, as
while this can be seen as redundant on the homepage, the navbar is used on
every page. Considering that this is a site to help people learn about Org,
I think that the visual consistency of having it on every page, and
how that helps reinforce the association between Org and that logo is worth it.
Having it regularly appear should help it stick.

> - I believe there are too many pages: I'd love the website to be just
>   one HTML page.  Rich contents should go to Worg and yes, we need to
>   upgrade Worg's design too. Let's try moving such contents to Worg as
>   soon as we can -- but this is not a blocker for the switch.

I think a single page might be a bit further than ideal, as I see it a
'core' of static pages
for orgmode.org would be
 - index/homepage
 - features
 - quickstart
 - install

How does that sound to you? Of course, all of this migration to Worg
can happen after an iniIal switch.

> - For the manual, I'd prefer to use the same design that the one used
>   on the gnu.org website:

This is quite easy (and not actually part of this branch), I think we
just need to pass
--css-ref "https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual.css;
to the makeinfo/texi2any/texi2html command in
https://code.orgmode.org/bzg/org-mode/src/master/doc/Makefile

All the best,

Timothy.



Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-23 Thread Takaaki Ishikawa
Dear Timothy,

I can provide Japanese translated webpages.
Currently, I have a permission to push translated pages in Japanese to
orgmode.org but I don't understand where you are working on for the
new website.
Could you provide me further information to help you? Email to me is welcome :)

Best regards,
Takaaki


Takaaki ISHIKAWA 

2020年9月23日(水) 0:01 TEC :
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm pleased to announce that after chatting with Bastien, my
> little
> revamp project seems to be nearing the point where it may replace
> the
> current site.
>
> Two things that would be good to get sorted:
>  1. Translation of the index page to French/Japanese ::
> I'm english only, and Bastien is busy, so volunteers would be
> much appreciated!
>  2. Picking the best 'Hero banner' on the home page ::
> Concerns were raised over the lack of contrast between the
> logo and
> the current banner background. I've chatted to someone else
> with
> some ideas and we've produced a few concepts which we'd like
> to get
> your feedback on.
> See the file attached, and if you could give say your top
> three
> picks (ordered), and any relevant
> reasoning/considerations/comments
> that would be great!
>
> All the best,
>
> Timothy.
>
> p.s. I haven't had much luck with attachments in the past, if this
> fails
> I'll reply with the attachment.
>



Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-23 Thread Eric S Fraga
2-1 for me.
-- 
: Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.50, Org release_9.4-18-gaea110



Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-23 Thread Lars Chr. Duus Hausmann

Hi,

TEC  writes:


Hello everyone,

I'm pleased to announce that after chatting with Bastien, my 
little
revamp project seems to be nearing the point where it may 
replace the

current site.

Two things that would be good to get sorted:
1. Translation of the index page to French/Japanese ::
   I'm english only, and Bastien is busy, so volunteers would be
   much appreciated!


Is there a specific set of languages, that is/must be
supported. Otherwise - depending on the format, I could do a 
Danish

translation, when English pages are in place.

[]

/LCH



Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-23 Thread Bastien
Hi Devin,

Devin Prater  writes:

> I'm just going over the site to check accessibility with screenn
> readers

Thanks for reporting these issues, we need to make the website fully
accessible before making the switch.

-- 
 Bastien



Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-23 Thread Bastien
Hi Timothy,

thanks for all your work!

The only variant that I like is 2-1.

Also, let's remove the mini-unicorn in the top bar, it is redundant
and reminds me of the opening of IT Crowd.


:)

For the translations, as discussed IRL, we don't need to translate
everything, perhaps just the index page would do.

Let me restate some of the directions I shared with you privately:

- I believe there are too many pages: I'd love the website to be just
  one HTML page.  Rich contents should go to Worg and yes, we need to
  upgrade Worg's design too. Let's try moving such contents to Worg as
  soon as we can -- but this is not a blocker for the switch.

- For the manual, I'd prefer to use the same design that the one used
  on the gnu.org website:

  https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/org/index.html

  The proposed one (https://orgmode.tecosaur.com/manual) looks good
  but it is too fancy and too narrow.  This is a blocker.

That's all for me -- thanks again!  Happy to help with the switch
when blockers are behind us.

-- 
 Bastien


Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-22 Thread Nicolas Goaziou
Hello,

TEC  writes:

> Yea, they were just placeholders till I came up with anything better. I
> haven't, and nobody else has given me improvements, so they haven't
> changed.
>
> If you have any suggestions, that would be great :)

Sure. "If you don't know what to play, play nothing." 

Just let them go.

Regards,
-- 
Nicolas Goaziou



Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-22 Thread Dominik Schrempf
Hello,

thank you very much for working on the new Org Mode web site!

Just one thing which might already have been said:

The scrolling is weird. I use keys to scroll the browser, and there is a delay
and some weird smooth scrolling behavior. Is this desired?

Thanks,
Dominik

TEC  writes:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm pleased to announce that after chatting with Bastien, my little
> revamp project seems to be nearing the point where it may replace the
> current site.
>
> Two things that would be good to get sorted:
> 1. Translation of the index page to French/Japanese ::
>I'm english only, and Bastien is busy, so volunteers would be much
>   appreciated!
> 2. Picking the best 'Hero banner' on the home page ::
>Concerns were raised over the lack of contrast between the logo and
>the current banner background. I've chatted to someone else with
>some ideas and we've produced a few concepts which we'd like to get
>your feedback on.
>See the file attached, and if you could give say your top three
>picks (ordered), and any relevant reasoning/considerations/comments
>that would be great!
>
> All the best,
>
> Timothy.
>
> p.s. I haven't had much luck with attachments in the past, if this fails
> I'll reply with the attachment.




Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-22 Thread Devin Prater
I'm just going over the site to check accessibility with screenn readers,
and here are a few things I've found:

On https://orgmode.tecosaur.com/features.html:

The first figure is not labeled, so I do not know what it is. The second
figure is just labeled "babel.gif", which doesn't tell me much (pretending
to be some one who knows nothing of Org-mode). After the "Collapsable
Editing" heading, that figure is labeled "folding.gif" which is slightly
better, but could be described much more, and without the .gif extension in
the alt-text.
After the "Task Management" heading, this figure likewise isn't described,
only having its file name, "planning.gif", as the alt-text or description.
After the "tables" heading, the figure, tables.gif, should be described
using Alt-text instead of just leaving the file name there.
After the "publishing" heading, the "exports.gif" figure should be
described. Also after that heading, in the list of export formats, the
second item just says "clickable" as the list item.
After the "Extensibility" heading, the figure does not even have a file
name as its Alt-text. After the "Time Tracking (Clocking)", the figure has
no Alt-text. After the "Agendas" heading, the figure has no Alt-text.
After the "Capturing" heading, the figure only has "capturing.gif" as the
Alt-text. After the "With your mobile phone" heading, the figure below has
"beorg.png" as the Alt-text.

Also, I cannot find the area to view the Org-mode source of a page.
Basically, describe the figures, don't just leave the description as the
file name. I tested this with Google Chrome 85, and the NVDA
 screen reader. The rest of the site looks good.



Devin Prater
sent from Gmail.


On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 11:13 AM Stefan Nobis  wrote:

> TEC  writes:
>
> > 2. Picking the best 'Hero banner' on the home page ::
>
> I like Variant 1-1 the most - all other variants are a bit too big and
> yelling for my eyes.
>
> Maybe use size and layout of Variant 1-1 with colors of the last
> variant (page 9, gray background)?
>
> --
> Until the next mail...,
> Stefan.
>
>


Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-22 Thread TEC


Nicolas Goaziou  writes:

> Nitpick: It's Org mode (or Org Mode though I prefer the former), but not
> Org-Mode (or Org-mode).

Fixed (Sentence Case).

> I'm not sure the subtitles behind "Features", "Install", ..., are
> useful. Worse, I have some feeling they could give a wrong impression
> about the software.

Yea, they were just placeholders till I came up with anything better. I
haven't, and nobody else has given me improvements, so they haven't
changed.

If you have any suggestions, that would be great :)

> It doesn't look bad, BTW.

Good to hear, and thanks for your thoughts,

Timothy.




Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-22 Thread Stefan Nobis
TEC  writes:

> 2. Picking the best 'Hero banner' on the home page ::

I like Variant 1-1 the most - all other variants are a bit too big and
yelling for my eyes.

Maybe use size and layout of Variant 1-1 with colors of the last
variant (page 9, gray background)?

-- 
Until the next mail...,
Stefan.



Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-22 Thread Nicolas Goaziou
Hello,

TEC  writes:

> I'm pleased to announce that after chatting with Bastien, my little
> revamp project seems to be nearing the point where it may replace the
> current site.
>
> Two things that would be good to get sorted:
> 1. Translation of the index page to French/Japanese ::
>I'm english only, and Bastien is busy, so volunteers would be
>much appreciated!
> 2. Picking the best 'Hero banner' on the home page ::
>Concerns were raised over the lack of contrast between the logo
>   and
>the current banner background. I've chatted to someone else
>with
>some ideas and we've produced a few concepts which we'd like to
>   get
>your feedback on.

Nitpick: It's Org mode (or Org Mode though I prefer the former), but not
Org-Mode (or Org-mode).

I'm not sure the subtitles behind "Features", "Install", ..., are
useful. Worse, I have some feeling they could give a wrong impression
about the software.

It doesn't look bad, BTW.

Regards,
-- 
Nicolas Goaziou



Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-22 Thread TEC


Palak Mathur  writes:

> I liked 3.1, 1.2 and 2.2 in that order. The reason for 3.1 it gives
> contrast between the navigation panel, banner and highlights the
> request for Donations.

Thanks!

FWI I'm putting positions on
https://orgmode.tecosaur.com/colophon.html#theme-votes

Much appreciated,

Timothy.



Re: The Website Revamp: The final stretch

2020-09-22 Thread Palak Mathur



Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 22, 2020, at 9:31 AM, TEC  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm pleased to announce that after chatting with Bastien, my little
> revamp project seems to be nearing the point where it may replace the
> current site.
> 
> Two things that would be good to get sorted:
> 1. Translation of the index page to French/Japanese ::
> I'm english only, and Bastien is busy, so volunteers would bemuch 
> appreciated!
> 2. Picking the best 'Hero banner' on the home page ::
> Concerns were raised over the lack of contrast between thelogo and
> the current banner background. I've chatted to someone elsewith
> some ideas and we've produced a few concepts which we'd liketo get
> your feedback on.
> See the file attached, and if you could give say your topthree
> picks (ordered), and any relevantreasoning/considerations/comments
> that would be great!

I liked 3.1, 1.2 and 2.2 in that order. The reason for 3.1 it gives contrast 
between the navigation panel, banner and highlights the request for Donations. 


> All the best,
> 
> Timothy.
> 
> p.s. I haven't had much luck with attachments in the past, if this fails
> I'll reply with the attachment.
> 
>