Re: asterisk allowed for list items
c.bu...@posteo.jp writes: > Am 29.04.2022 15:49 schrieb Ihor Radchenko: >> Exactly because you are actively trying to understand the syntax, you >> are in unique situation where you can easily see all the "opaque" >> places >> in the syntax description. > > I still don't know if I misunderstand the syntax description document or > if there is really and "error" in it. Ideally, our document should be reasonably easy to understand for native or non-native English speakers. So, please keep posting if you find some parts difficult. >> That's why I ask you to propose modifications >> to the document that would make it easier to read for you. > > First of all I have to understand everything and then write that down > for my self (especially as Python code and unittests). > > My english is awful and it wouldn't help you. I even do not understand > all words and sentences (from a language perspective) of the syntax > description document. I am not into it enough to propose a patch. I can > only offer you "my understanding" of the document and "testing" a new > version of it. Well. The document has been written by native speaker of (AFAIK) Australian English. I myself (non-native speaker) had hard time understanding some parts given my experience with American English. If you observe some particularly tricky sentences, feel free to complain here :) The goal of that document is to make things easier, not harder for the reader. Best, Ihor
Re: asterisk allowed for list items
Dear Ihor, thanks for your reply. Am 29.04.2022 15:49 schrieb Ihor Radchenko: Exactly because you are actively trying to understand the syntax, you are in unique situation where you can easily see all the "opaque" places in the syntax description. I still don't know if I misunderstand the syntax description document or if there is really and "error" in it. That's why I ask you to propose modifications to the document that would make it easier to read for you. First of all I have to understand everything and then write that down for my self (especially as Python code and unittests). My english is awful and it wouldn't help you. I even do not understand all words and sentences (from a language perspective) of the syntax description document. I am not into it enough to propose a patch. I can only offer you "my understanding" of the document and "testing" a new version of it.
Re: asterisk allowed for list items
c.bu...@posteo.jp writes: > Am 29.04.2022 15:04 schrieb Detlef Steuer: >> But *first* it should be easily read- and writable by humans and only >> then easily parseble by parsers! At least imho. > > I agree and understand that this is one of the design principals of Org. > > But even for humans the current situation is IMHO not "easy". When I > want to have asterix bullet for my list items I always have to think > about the trailing whitespace to prevent Org from interpreting this as a > heading. If you want to avoid this confusion, just don't use asterisks in lists. Yet, Org still provides this option if you suddenly need to use asterisks in some weird scenario :) Generally, fontification is a guide. Best, Ihor
Re: asterisk allowed for list items
c.bu...@posteo.jp writes: > Sidenote: As someone who writes software that parse org-content I would > suggest to make the whitespace in front of a list item mandatory even > for "-" and "+". It would reduce code complexity. It might probably simplify things for third-party parsers. Not for org-element. The "^* " vs "^ * " is distinguished without much efforts on Org side because of hierarchical matching (headlines have higher priority over lists). Moreover Org is trying to be as back-compatible as possible, so minor simplification is not sufficient to advocate changing Org syntax. Best, Ihor
Re: asterisk allowed for list items
c.bu...@posteo.jp writes: > Am 29.04.2022 14:15 schrieb Ihor Radchenko: >> Would you be interested to contribute an example to >> https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-syntax.html#Items ? > > Not sure what you mean. Currently I just try to understand the syntax > and get the hard rules for my own parser. ;) Exactly because you are actively trying to understand the syntax, you are in unique situation where you can easily see all the "opaque" places in the syntax description. That's why I ask you to propose modifications to the document that would make it easier to read for you. Ideally, the modifications should be the form of a patch :) > btw: There is a "problem" with the mailinglist. Follow-Up and Reply-To > is ignored. I always get copy to my own adress instead of the > mailinglist. I do not need copies. This is noise. I do not think that it is a problem of the mailing list software. Rather we are used to Reply-All to make sure that people who are not subscribed are kept in the look. Getting a copy to your own address is a side effect. Best, Ihor
Re: asterisk allowed for list items
Dear Detlef Am 29.04.2022 15:04 schrieb Detlef Steuer: But *first* it should be easily read- and writable by humans and only then easily parseble by parsers! At least imho. I agree and understand that this is one of the design principals of Org. But even for humans the current situation is IMHO not "easy". When I want to have asterix bullet for my list items I always have to think about the trailing whitespace to prevent Org from interpreting this as a heading.
Re: asterisk allowed for list items
Am Fri, 29 Apr 2022 12:17:24 + schrieb c.bu...@posteo.jp: > Sidenote: As someone who writes software that parse org-content I > would suggest to make the whitespace in front of a list item > mandatory even for "-" and "+". It would reduce code complexity. But *first* it should be easily read- and writable by humans and only then easily parseble by parsers! At least imho. Detlef
Re: asterisk allowed for list items
Am 29.04.2022 14:15 schrieb Ihor Radchenko: Would you be interested to contribute an example to https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-syntax.html#Items ? Not sure what you mean. Currently I just try to understand the syntax and get the hard rules for my own parser. ;) - List item with whitespace before and after bullet + List item with whitespace before and after bullet * List item with whitespace before and after bullet - List item with whitespace only after bullet + List item with whitespace only after bullet * A heading because there is no whitespace before the bullet btw: There is a "problem" with the mailinglist. Follow-Up and Reply-To is ignored. I always get copy to my own adress instead of the mailinglist. I do not need copies. This is noise.
Re: asterisk allowed for list items
I need to add something here and think the syntax description should be updated about that. A "*" is allowed or recognized as a list item instead as a head only if there is one (or maybe more) whitespace space in front of it. But "-" and "+" also recognized as starts for list items without any trailing whitespace in front of them. Sidenote: As someone who writes software that parse org-content I would suggest to make the whitespace in front of a list item mandatory even for "-" and "+". It would reduce code complexity. Am 29.04.2022 13:53 schrieb c.bu...@posteo.jp: I was looking into https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-syntax.html#Items to find out which characters are allowed as "bullets" for unorderd lists. I cite from there "An asterisk, hyphen, or plus sign character (i.e., *, -, or +)." I wonder why * is allowed because * also starts a heading. So how does a piece of software/parser decide if a line starting with an * is a heading or a list item?
Re: asterisk allowed for list items
c.bu...@posteo.jp writes: > I cite from there > "An asterisk, hyphen, or plus sign character (i.e., *, -, or +)." > > I wonder why * is allowed because * also starts a heading. So how does a > piece of software/parser decide if a line starting with an * is a > heading or a list item? Headlines always start at beginning of line and have stars followed by space: * this is a heading ** this is also a heading **but this is not (no space after stars) * this is a list item (star not at bol) Would you be interested to contribute an example to https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-syntax.html#Items ? Best, Ihor
asterisk allowed for list items
I was looking into https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-syntax.html#Items to find out which characters are allowed as "bullets" for unorderd lists. I cite from there "An asterisk, hyphen, or plus sign character (i.e., *, -, or +)." I wonder why * is allowed because * also starts a heading. So how does a piece of software/parser decide if a line starting with an * is a heading or a list item?