Re: [O] LOGBOOK opening
Bastien b...@altern.org writes: Hi Bernt, Bernt Hansen be...@norang.ca writes: If you're going to make this change then maybe provide a new variable so the prefix behaviour can be selected. SPC in the agenda (without a prefix) is the only way I know of to quickly see the reason why a WAITING task is waiting and having to hit the prefix each time I want to look at one of those is going to make it less convenient (for me). I'm reluctant to create a new variable just for this. I documented the existence of C-u SPC in a footnote in the manual, so people won't have wrong expectations. Thanks. -Bernt
Re: [O] LOGBOOK opening
Hi François, The default behavior of SPC in the agenda view stays the same, but you can now also use `C-u SPC' to avoid unfolding of logbooks and drawers. HTH, -- Bastien
Re: [O] LOGBOOK opening
Bastien b...@altern.org writes: The default behavior of SPC in the agenda view stays the same, but you can now also use `C-u SPC' to avoid unfolding of logbooks and drawers. That's good news! HTH, Yes, it will indeed help! I felt the need many times this morning, so this correction is very welcome! Thanks for it. François P.S. While I'm happy, I think that for the consistency and elegance of Org mode, `C-u SPC' and `SPC' meanings should be reversed. The manual still defines drawers by this intent of keeping their contents hidden.
Re: [O] LOGBOOK opening
pin...@iro.umontreal.ca (François Pinard) writes: Bastien b...@altern.org writes: The default behavior of SPC in the agenda view stays the same, but you can now also use `C-u SPC' to avoid unfolding of logbooks and drawers. snip P.S. While I'm happy, I think that for the consistency and elegance of Org mode, `C-u SPC' and `SPC' meanings should be reversed. The manual still defines drawers by this intent of keeping their contents hidden. If you're going to make this change then maybe provide a new variable so the prefix behaviour can be selected. SPC in the agenda (without a prefix) is the only way I know of to quickly see the reason why a WAITING task is waiting and having to hit the prefix each time I want to look at one of those is going to make it less convenient (for me). Just my 2 cents :) Regards, Bernt
Re: [O] LOGBOOK opening
Hi Bernt, Bernt Hansen be...@norang.ca writes: If you're going to make this change then maybe provide a new variable so the prefix behaviour can be selected. SPC in the agenda (without a prefix) is the only way I know of to quickly see the reason why a WAITING task is waiting and having to hit the prefix each time I want to look at one of those is going to make it less convenient (for me). I'm reluctant to create a new variable just for this. I documented the existence of C-u SPC in a footnote in the manual, so people won't have wrong expectations. -- Bastien
Re: [O] LOGBOOK opening
Sebastien Vauban wxhgmqzgwmuf-genee64ty+gs+fvcfc7...@public.gmane.org writes: François Pinard wrote: When using SPC in the Agenda buffer (org-agenda-show-and-scrollup), the LOGBOOK drawer is shown opened, which is not a big problem, yet a slightly annoying one, as I'm rarely interested to see its contents at this stage. I don't _think_ this is customizable right now; though, please not[e] that RET'ing on en entry from the agenda jumps to the entry, without expanding the drawer. Though, it reuses the agenda buffer to do so -- it's not the same behavior as SPC'ing. Hello, Sebastien. The manual says, in (org) Drawers: Sometimes you want to keep information associated with an entry, but you normally don't want to see it. For this, Org mode has _drawers_. [...] In order to look inside the drawer, you need to move the cursor to the drawer line and press TAB there. and I like what the manual says, I would like it to be true. The /purpose/ of drawers is to keep the information out of sight, unless explicit action is taken, as stated. I do not see why RET and SPC from the Agenda would act differently from one another in that respect, nor why one of them would contradict the definition and spirit of a drawer. If for some reason it should be an exception, this should be documented and justified within (org) Agenda commands, which it is currently not. François
Re: [O] LOGBOOK opening
pin...@iro.umontreal.ca (François Pinard) writes: Hello, Sebastien. The manual says, in (org) Drawers: Sometimes you want to keep information associated with an entry, but you normally don't want to see it. For this, Org mode has _drawers_. [...] In order to look inside the drawer, you need to move the cursor to the drawer line and press TAB there. and I like what the manual says, I would like it to be true. The /purpose/ of drawers is to keep the information out of sight, unless explicit action is taken, as stated. I do not see why RET and SPC from the Agenda would act differently from one another in that respect, nor why one of them would contradict the definition and spirit of a drawer. If for some reason it should be an exception, this should be documented and justified within (org) Agenda commands, which it is currently not. François Hi, It behaves this way in the org file when you change folding views with TAB. From the agenda it's useful (at least for me) to be able to see the first few lines of the drawer data for LOGBOOK entries. When I mark a task WAITING I normally record the reason for WHY it is waiting in the LOGBOOK as a note. SPC in the agenda on the task displays the extra detail and I like this current feature. Regards, Bernt
Re: [O] LOGBOOK opening
Bernt Hansen be...@norang.ca writes: pin...@iro.umontreal.ca (François Pinard) writes: I do not see why RET and SPC from the Agenda would act differently from one another in that respect [of opening the drawers in the associate Org buffer], nor why one of them would contradict the definition and spirit of a drawer. From the agenda it's useful (at least for me) to be able to see the first few lines of the drawer data for LOGBOOK entries. Bernt, it seems that our usages vary. In my case, so far, this has not proven useful. Even if I've not been using Org mode for long, those LOGBOOK are already a bit lengthy. When SPC-ing from the Agenda, I either keep SPC-ing to scroll over these noisy lines, or switch to the other window, position the cursor on the LOGBOOK line, close the drawer for being able to see what follows it, and return to the agenda. I really, honestly thought there was some Org mode bug there. If I put LOGBOOKs everywhere and moved administrative lines in them, this is because I was promised by the manual that the drawers contents will be kept out of my sight, unless I do request to see them. If, as a user, you want to see log information right away, I presume you should not use drawers for them. Drawers should not be opened automatically. Some hooks or extra machinery might be used when one /wants/ to open drawers automatically, but Org should not open drawers by default, exactly because they are drawers. There are special cases which I understand. If Org wants to directly show a CLOCK: line which is within a drawer, I find it very normal than that line is revealed, and the drawer opened automatically to do so. But then, the clear purpose is to show the CLOCK: line. When the agenda switches to the SCHEDULED: line, it should not open the drawer which follows, this is contrary to the purpose of a drawer. When I mark a task WAITING I normally record the reason for WHY it is waiting in the LOGBOOK as a note. SPC in the agenda on the task displays the extra detail and I like this current feature. If it is indeed a feature, and not just a bug that happens to be comfortable for you (and uncomfortable for me), maybe it should be documented where drawers are presented, so users like me would know that drawers have limitations or exceptions. François P.S. All this being said, this is a detail, which is not worth a crusade :-). Org mode is immensely usable. I merely see that what seems a bug to me is a feature for someone else. If there is no bug in the program, there is a bug in the documentation, which promised incorrectly.
[O] LOGBOOK opening
Hi, Org people. When using SPC in the Agenda buffer (org-agenda-show-and-scrollup), the LOGBOOK drawer is shown opened, which is not a big problem, yet a slightly annoying one, as I'm rarely interested to see its contents at this stage. Moreover, the manual explains that one of the purposes of drawers is keeping information out of sight, unless the user takes specific action for opening it. The above command leave the cursor on the SCHEDULED: line in the Org buffer, which is above and outside the LOGBOOK drawer, so there is likely no need to open it. Is there some secret variable to prevent such opening? (I begin to see the pattern on the Org mode list -- someone presents a problem, another gives the name of the variable that solves it!) François
Re: [O] LOGBOOK opening
Hi François, François Pinard wrote: When using SPC in the Agenda buffer (org-agenda-show-and-scrollup), the LOGBOOK drawer is shown opened, which is not a big problem, yet a slightly annoying one, as I'm rarely interested to see its contents at this stage. Moreover, the manual explains that one of the purposes of drawers is keeping information out of sight, unless the user takes specific action for opening it. The above command leave the cursor on the SCHEDULED: line in the Org buffer, which is above and outside the LOGBOOK drawer, so there is likely no need to open it. Is there some secret variable to prevent such opening? (I begin to see the pattern on the Org mode list -- someone presents a problem, another gives the name of the variable that solves it!) I don't _think_ this is customizable right now; though, please not that RET'ing on en entry from the agenda jumps to the entry, without expanding the drawer. Though, it reuses the agenda buffer to do so -- it's not the same behavior as SPC'ing. Best regards, Seb -- Sebastien Vauban
