[Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Baoqiu == Baoqiu Cui cbao...@yahoo.com writes: Baoqiu You won't see real difference if we are talking about software Baoqiu manuals or documentation etc. For software manuals reST/Sphinx provides all what I need - check some of the docs here: http://sphinx.pocoo.org/examples.html Baoqiu Maybe you should take a look at Simplified DocBook: I played with it in the past, but simply do not see any advantage of using any Docbook-dialect over reST, but understand it makes sense for others. Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Zagreb, Croatia | GPG key: C6E7162D pgpievxQ3iIkg.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Sebastian == Sebastian Rose sebastian_r...@gmx.de writes: Sebastian Frankly speaking, Org-mode provides a lot of expressive power Sebastian if you want it while still keeping document very readable and Sebastian nowadays can produce DocBook output simply by pressing `C-c Sebastian C-e D' ;-) I agree about Org-mode's expressive power. The case for reST is because it's more 'standard' markup for non-Emacs users. Otherwise, I could continue using Muse as well... Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Zagreb, Croatia | GPG key: C6E7162D pgpj7hUQoev8t.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Gour g...@mail.inet.hr writes: Baoqiu == Baoqiu Cui cbao...@yahoo.com writes: Baoqiu I knew it must be FOP that you did not like. ;-) I had similar Baoqiu experience using FOP, and I (and all other team members) had to Baoqiu find workarounds when hitting problems in FOP (like formatting Baoqiu footnotes in lists or tables). Not hard to guess - not many players around. ;) Baoqiu Don't know if you have tried XEP from RenderX. I have not found Baoqiu any problems in XEP. This is commercial app, right? Yes, it is. I do like its PDF output quality. Moreover, I do not believe it produces better output than TeX. You won't see real difference if we are talking about software manuals or documentation etc. Frankly speaking, reST provides a lot of expressive power if you want it, while still keeping document very readable and no DTDs, schemas, validation, fiddling with catalogs etc. :-D Otoh, number of tags in DocBook is overwhelming and, imgo, way too distracting for most documentation tasks, at least, for *my* use-cases. Maybe you should take a look at Simplified DocBook: http://www.docbook.org/schemas/simplified - Baoqiu ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Dale Smith da...@vxitech.com writes: Sebastian Rose sebastian_r...@gmx.de writes: Gour g...@mail.inet.hr writes: Otoh, number of tags in DocBook is overwhelming and, imgo, way too distracting for most documentation tasks, at least, for *my* use-cases. It is, and that's exactly why the DocBook export is such a great thing. You could say a similar thing about (valid) XHTML, LaTeX, reST - whatever markup you're not familiar with. With the DocBook exporter, learning DocBook is reduced to pressing `C-c C-e' and choose the right option ;-) And that's one of the reasons I would like a docbook exporter. I see myself with two usage patterns. One is where I keep the file in org (or muse) format, and export to docbook and eventually pdf for external consumption. The other is where I use org (or muse) to start the docbook file, and then continue to edit the docbook. This is because docbook is so much richer than any wiki format, and I want to take advantage of what's there. With the DocBook exporter, I can imagine another usage pattern: we can use the powerful list, section, and table editing functionality, quickly edit some paragraphs or sections, export them into DocBook format, and then include them into other big DocBook files. Baoqiu ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Baoqiu Cui cbao...@yahoo.com writes: Dale Smith da...@vxitech.com writes: Baoqiu Cui cbao...@yahoo.com writes: The only thing that is missing (at least to me) in current Org-mode is the exporter for DocBook format. There is quite a bit of similarity between org and muse formats. I've found that I can edit .muse files in org-mode and stiil publish to docbook. Yes, Muse and Org-mode do have some similarity. While Muse is mainly for publishing, Org-mode focuses on many other things beyond some good publishing functionality. Since Org-mode already has a very good publishing framework in its HTML exporter , it is relatively easy (a small step) to make Org-mode a strong publishing environment too. I have not used Muse in the past 2+ years. Don't know whether it has got much improvement... It's a nice trick to edit .muse files in Org-mode. :-) During the last week (mainly during the last weekend), I wrote some code to export Org files to DocBook V5.0 format, and everything looks very promising (I have to admit that a lot of work still needs to be done to make the code complete and stable) . Looks pretty good to me. I'm ready to ty it out! Thanks. I'll work on the code a little bit more during the weekend and post it to the group. Link to the code: http://code.google.com/p/bcui-emacs/source/browse/#svn/trunk/org-docbook Baoqiu ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Baoqiu == Baoqiu Cui cbao...@yahoo.com writes: Baoqiu I knew it must be FOP that you did not like. ;-) I had similar Baoqiu experience using FOP, and I (and all other team members) had to Baoqiu find workarounds when hitting problems in FOP (like formatting Baoqiu footnotes in lists or tables). Not hard to guess - not many players around. ;) Baoqiu Don't know if you have tried XEP from RenderX. I have not found Baoqiu any problems in XEP. This is commercial app, right? Moreover, I do not believe it produces better output than TeX. Baoqiu Many people who don't like LaTeX can say similar things about Baoqiu LaTeX. ;-) Well, in the past I used LyX which is great tool for authoring-phase and later manually tweaked LaTeX code. Baoqiu The main problem with all these lightweight markup languages is Baoqiu that there is a limitation on their expressing power. Have you seen http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/ref/rst/directives.html Baoqiu They are perfect tools for quickly publishing blogs, wikis, Baoqiu simple web sites, documentation of source code, etc., but will Baoqiu quickly hit their limit when they are used for more serious Baoqiu publishing. Frankly speaking, reST provides a lot of expressive power if you want it, while still keeping document very readable and no DTDs, schemas, validation, fiddling with catalogs etc. :-D Otoh, number of tags in DocBook is overwhelming and, imgo, way too distracting for most documentation tasks, at least, for *my* use-cases. Baoqiu I don't know much about rst.el, and am still new to Org-mode, so Baoqiu cannot say much on this. :-) OK. Maybe someone with more Elisp skills will hook on reST. :-D Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Zagreb, Croatia | GPG key: C6E7162D pgpALmsp7LojW.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Gour g...@mail.inet.hr writes: Otoh, number of tags in DocBook is overwhelming and, imgo, way too distracting for most documentation tasks, at least, for *my* use-cases. It is, and that's exactly why the DocBook export is such a great thing. You could say a similar thing about (valid) XHTML, LaTeX, reST - whatever markup you're not familiar with. With the DocBook exporter, learning DocBook is reduced to pressing `C-c C-e' and choose the right option ;-) Regards, -- Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover Tel.: +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472 Fax: +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044 mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417 Http: www.emma-stil.de ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Gour g...@mail.inet.hr writes: Frankly speaking, reST provides a lot of expressive power if you want it, while still keeping document very readable and no DTDs, schemas, validation, fiddling with catalogs etc. :-D How about: Frankly speaking, Org-mode provides a lot of expressive power if you want it while still keeping document very readable and nowadays can produce DocBook output simply by pressing `C-c C-e D' ;-) Regards, -- Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover Tel.: +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472 Fax: +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044 mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417 Http: www.emma-stil.de ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Sebastian Rose sebastian_r...@gmx.de writes: Gour g...@mail.inet.hr writes: Otoh, number of tags in DocBook is overwhelming and, imgo, way too distracting for most documentation tasks, at least, for *my* use-cases. It is, and that's exactly why the DocBook export is such a great thing. You could say a similar thing about (valid) XHTML, LaTeX, reST - whatever markup you're not familiar with. With the DocBook exporter, learning DocBook is reduced to pressing `C-c C-e' and choose the right option ;-) And that's one of the reasons I would like a docbook exporter. I see myself with two usage patterns. One is where I keep the file in org (or muse) format, and export to docbook and eventually pdf for external consumption. The other is where I use org (or muse) to start the docbook file, and then continue to edit the docbook. This is because docbook is so much richer than any wiki format, and I want to take advantage of what's there. -Dale -- Dale P. Smith da...@vtiinstruments.com 216-447-4059 x2018 216-447-8951 FAX (Company mandated disclaimer follows...) The information in this e-mail and any attachments is intended solely for use by the recipient(s) to whom this e-mail is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information which is exempt from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail and any attachments in error and that dissemination, distribution, review or copying of this e-mail and its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all electronic and paper copies of this e-mail as well as any attachments. Thank you. http://www.vtiinstruments.com/images/vtiemaillogo.gif ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Gour g...@mail.inet.hr writes: Sebastian == Sebastian Rose sebastian_r...@gmx.de writes: Sebastian I highly apreciate the support of Docbook and your Sebastian effort. Yet, I think I don't want to publish XHTML through Sebastian Docbook. +1 I gave up on DocBook long ago. It's pain to author documents in it and the tools are quite weak. Actually nXML mode has made editing DocBook and other XML files a fun process. At least less painful than editing LaTeX files to many people. It is true that many open-source tools around DocBook are still not perfect, but they should be good enough for most of the work of most users. Some commercial tools exist and are better, but they are not free. (I have not used reST, however it does not seem to me that it has more tools than DocBook.) That why I don't like AsciiDoc as well being based on Docbook tool-chain and therefore decided to use reST markup which is much lighter, nicely supported and it can export to many formats (e.g. xhtml, odt, pdf..) I just checked reST markup specifications, and they do look powerful (but not very lightweight). Maybe it *is* time to have a standard to unify all these plain-text based lightweight markup languages: Muse, Org, reST, asciidoc, all kinds of *wiki*, doxygen styles, etc. These languages won't be lightweight and easy to read once they become more powerful. At that point, I'd prefer to go back to LaTeX or DocBook. Therefore I'm interested about any hint how could reST be used with org-mode? That may require some code sharing/merging between rst.el and Org-mode, I guess. :-) Baoqiu ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Hi Gour, Gour g...@mail.inet.hr writes: Sebastian == Sebastian Rose sebastian_r...@gmx.de writes: Sebastian I highly apreciate the support of Docbook and your Sebastian effort. Yet, I think I don't want to publish XHTML through Sebastian Docbook. +1 I gave up on DocBook long ago. It's pain to author documents in it and the tools are quite weak. That why I don't like AsciiDoc as well being based on Docbook tool-chain and therefore decided to use reST markup which is much lighter, nicely supported and it can export to many formats (e.g. xhtml, odt, pdf..) Therefore I'm interested about any hint how could reST be used with org-mode? Apart from odt output, I'd be curious to know what reST can do that org-mode markup and export cannot. Footnotes, tables, hyperlinks, images---I've found org-mode to be a really great authoring tool for exporting both to xhtml, ascii, and LaTeX/pdf output. (And, of course, using latex2rtf, it's trivial to convert the tex files org-mode produces into files that can be edited in Open Office.) (I'd use muse, but it's not so 'standard' as reST for non-Emacs users.) I wonder if the ascii export from org would be difficult to convert to reST markup. Section headers and footnotes in the ascii export seem pretty close to the corresponding markup in reST. Just a thought - Matt ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Sebastian I highly apreciate the support of Docbook and your Sebastian effort. Yet, I think I don't want to publish XHTML through Sebastian Docbook. Googling brings up quite some interesting formats supported through DocBook. These are some of the formats I found on the first glance: * ODT * SWX * (somwhat limited) MSword * Java Help * Windows Help * Entire Websites I just did a quick search only and I think more intensive search would reveal many more. -- Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover Tel.: +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472 Fax: +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044 mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417 Http: www.emma-stil.de ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Baoqiu == Baoqiu Cui cbao...@yahoo.com writes: Baoqiu It is true that many open-source tools around DocBook are still Baoqiu not perfect, but they should be good enough for most of the work Baoqiu of most users. Some commercial tools exist and are better, but Baoqiu they are not free. (I have not used reST, however it does not Baoqiu seem to me that it has more tools than DocBook.) Well, frankly speaking, I consider that XML simply sucks as authoring format. I was playing with FOP several years ago and I'd never replace it with TeX typesetting. Baoqiu I just checked reST markup specifications, and they do look Baoqiu powerful (but not very lightweight). Well, reST is, imho, (similar to markdown), much more readable than XML with all those brackets. Baoqiu Maybe it *is* time to have a standard to unify all these Baoqiu plain-text based lightweight markup languages: Muse, Org, reST, Baoqiu asciidoc, all kinds of *wiki*, doxygen styles, etc. Maybe Creole (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creole_(markup) )? Baoqiu These languages won't be lightweight and easy to read once they Baoqiu become more powerful. At that point, I'd prefer to go back to Baoqiu LaTeX or DocBook. I do not miss any feature in reST for my writing, the whole Python docs is written with it and it is for me still much readable in 'source' form than DocBook. Baoqiu That may require some code sharing/merging between rst.el and Baoqiu Org-mode, I guess. :-) Heh, I'm curious to know more about it. ;) Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Zagreb, Croatia | GPG key: C6E7162D pgp6SxdvXon3m.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Matthew == Matthew Lundin m...@imapmail.org writes: Hi Matthew, Matthew Apart from odt output, I'd be curious to know what reST can do Matthew that org-mode markup and export cannot. Footnotes, tables, Matthew hyperlinks, images---I've found org-mode to be a really great Matthew authoring tool for exporting both to xhtml, ascii, and Matthew LaTeX/pdf output. (And, of course, using latex2rtf, it's Matthew trivial to convert the tex files org-mode produces into files Matthew that can be edited in Open Office.) I like and plan to learn org-mode to extend the present use greatly, but similar to Muse, its use is 'limited' to Emacs users while I've need to share some docs (e.g. writing documentation for software application) with non-Emacs users, so using more 'standardized' markup is a 'pro' here. Matthew I wonder if the ascii export from org would be difficult to Matthew convert to reST markup. Section headers and footnotes in the Matthew ascii export seem pretty close to the corresponding markup in Matthew reST. Just a thought Dunno more about Asciidoc, but it would be great if Pandoc (http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/) would have full parser for reST 'cause it represents any supported markup in 'native' state before doing conversion and it even outputs to Docbook :-) So, my main point of using reST is more 'standard' and lightweight input markup with the plethora of output formats. Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Zagreb, Croatia | GPG key: C6E7162D pgp9aRYG4Us8Z.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Sebastian == Sebastian Rose sebastian_r...@gmx.de writes: Sebastian I just did a quick search only and I think more intensive Sebastian search would reveal many more. Check Pandoc's features: Pandoc is a Haskell library for converting from one markup format to another, and a command-line tool that uses this library. It can read markdown and (subsets of) reStructuredText, HTML, and LaTeX, and it can write markdown, reStructuredText, HTML, LaTeX, ConTeXt, PDF, RTF, DocBook XML, OpenDocument XML, ODT, GNU Texinfo, MediaWiki markup, groff man pages, and S5 HTML slide shows. In the past I also played with: http://txt2tags.sourceforge.net/ Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Zagreb, Croatia | GPG key: C6E7162D pgpEkCzHctWnx.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Hi Gour, Gour g...@mail.inet.hr writes: Baoqiu == Baoqiu Cui cbao...@yahoo.com writes: Baoqiu It is true that many open-source tools around DocBook are still Baoqiu not perfect, but they should be good enough for most of the work Baoqiu of most users. Some commercial tools exist and are better, but Baoqiu they are not free. (I have not used reST, however it does not Baoqiu seem to me that it has more tools than DocBook.) Well, frankly speaking, I consider that XML simply sucks as authoring format. I was playing with FOP several years ago and I'd never replace it with TeX typesetting. I knew it must be FOP that you did not like. ;-) I had similar experience using FOP, and I (and all other team members) had to find workarounds when hitting problems in FOP (like formatting footnotes in lists or tables). Don't know if you have tried XEP from RenderX. I have not found any problems in XEP. I don't think it's bad to use XML as authoring format, even though I think TeX would still be the ultimate typesetting tool. Baoqiu I just checked reST markup specifications, and they do look Baoqiu powerful (but not very lightweight). Well, reST is, imho, (similar to markdown), much more readable than XML with all those brackets. Many people who don't like LaTeX can say similar things about LaTeX. ;-) The main problem with all these lightweight markup languages is that there is a limitation on their expressing power. They are perfect tools for quickly publishing blogs, wikis, simple web sites, documentation of source code, etc., but will quickly hit their limit when they are used for more serious publishing. Baoqiu Maybe it *is* time to have a standard to unify all these Baoqiu plain-text based lightweight markup languages: Muse, Org, reST, Baoqiu asciidoc, all kinds of *wiki*, doxygen styles, etc. Maybe Creole (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creole_(markup) )? Thanks for the link! Haven't heard about it. Baoqiu That may require some code sharing/merging between rst.el and Baoqiu Org-mode, I guess. :-) Heh, I'm curious to know more about it. ;) I don't know much about rst.el, and am still new to Org-mode, so cannot say much on this. :-) Thanks, Baoqiu ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Baoqiu Cui cbao...@yahoo.com writes: The only thing that is missing (at least to me) in current Org-mode is the exporter for DocBook format. There is quite a bit of similarity between org and muse formats. I've found that I can edit .muse files in org-mode and stiil publish to docbook. During the last week (mainly during the last weekend), I wrote some code to export Org files to DocBook V5.0 format, and everything looks very promising (I have to admit that a lot of work still needs to be done to make the code complete and stable) . Looks pretty good to me. I'm ready to ty it out! -Dale -- Dale P. Smith da...@vtiinstruments.com 216-447-4059 x2018 216-447-8951 FAX (Company mandated disclaimer follows...) The information in this e-mail and any attachments is intended solely for use by the recipient(s) to whom this e-mail is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information which is exempt from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail and any attachments in error and that dissemination, distribution, review or copying of this e-mail and its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all electronic and paper copies of this e-mail as well as any attachments. Thank you. http://www.vtiinstruments.com/images/vtiemaillogo.gif ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
docbook is great since it's widely used. The output looks good! How could we test it? And could we configure it somehow? Anyway, I'd prefere to export to _one_ XML format from Org-mode and provide xslt stylesheets to translate between different formats. That way we all would concentrate on one XML exporter (e.g. the XHTML exporter) and could provide xslt stylesheets to transform the output. This would guaranty a slitely more complete and bugfree export, which is configured from one org-publish-project-alist. Regards, Sebastian Dale Smith da...@vxitech.com writes: Baoqiu Cui cbao...@yahoo.com writes: The only thing that is missing (at least to me) in current Org-mode is the exporter for DocBook format. There is quite a bit of similarity between org and muse formats. I've found that I can edit .muse files in org-mode and stiil publish to docbook. During the last week (mainly during the last weekend), I wrote some code to export Org files to DocBook V5.0 format, and everything looks very promising (I have to admit that a lot of work still needs to be done to make the code complete and stable) . Looks pretty good to me. I'm ready to ty it out! -Dale -- Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover Tel.: +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472 Fax: +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044 mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417 Email: s.r...@emma-stil.de, sebastian_r...@gmx.de Http: www.emma-stil.de ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Sebastian Rose sebastian_r...@gmx.de writes: Anyway, I'd prefere to export to _one_ XML format from Org-mode and provide xslt stylesheets to translate between different formats. That way we all would concentrate on one XML exporter (e.g. the XHTML exporter) and could provide xslt stylesheets to transform the output. This would guaranty a slitely more complete and bugfree export, which is configured from one org-publish-project-alist. I think we would find hundreds of xslt stylesheets on the web to transform Docbook to virtually any format. ... google google ... Opendocument: http://open.comsultia.com/docbook2odf/ - toolkit http://sourceforge.net/projects/docbook2odf XHTML There seems to be a standard stylesheet included in the Docbook distribution for generating XHTML as this mail says (the link in there is dead though): http://www.stylusstudio.com/xmldev/200012/post30530.html RTF Also included in the standarrd distro http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=docbook Will we loose the features of htmlize.el? I'm not familiar with the Docbook DTD - I know it includes lots of elements. How about time/date types, Programming types (string, variable, class, function)? Wouldn't it be easier to transform the XHTML to docbook through xslt? The types are not lost, since all types that emacs is aware of, are exported as span class=type.../span. -- Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover Tel.: +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472 Fax: +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044 mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417 Email: s.r...@emma-stil.de, sebastian_r...@gmx.de Http: www.emma-stil.de ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Dale Smith da...@vxitech.com writes: Baoqiu Cui cbao...@yahoo.com writes: The only thing that is missing (at least to me) in current Org-mode is the exporter for DocBook format. There is quite a bit of similarity between org and muse formats. I've found that I can edit .muse files in org-mode and stiil publish to docbook. Yes, Muse and Org-mode do have some similarity. While Muse is mainly for publishing, Org-mode focuses on many other things beyond some good publishing functionality. Since Org-mode already has a very good publishing framework in its HTML exporter , it is relatively easy (a small step) to make Org-mode a strong publishing environment too. I have not used Muse in the past 2+ years. Don't know whether it has got much improvement... It's a nice trick to edit .muse files in Org-mode. :-) During the last week (mainly during the last weekend), I wrote some code to export Org files to DocBook V5.0 format, and everything looks very promising (I have to admit that a lot of work still needs to be done to make the code complete and stable) . Looks pretty good to me. I'm ready to ty it out! Thanks. I'll work on the code a little bit more during the weekend and post it to the group. Baoqiu ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Hi, Sebastian Anyway, I'd prefere to export to _one_ XML format from Sebastian Org-mode and provide xslt stylesheets to translate between Sebastian different formats. Sebastian That way we all would concentrate on one XML exporter (e.g. Sebastian the XHTML exporter) and could provide xslt stylesheets to Sebastian transform the output. Sebastian This would guaranty a slitely more complete and bugfree Sebastian export, which is configured from one Sebastian org-publish-project-alist. Yes, I also think this is a better way of exporting. The nice thing about org-mode export system is the output-specific regions (like between begin_latex and end_latex) that allow to stay working in the org version of your document for more time. Final output hand tuning is often necessary, but it is nice to push this step back if possible. Pandoc is good also, and LaTeX can be inlined as well : http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/ I wonder wether this can be done using docbook as an intermediate step. -- Paul ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Sebastian Rose sebastian_r...@gmx.de writes: I think we would find hundreds of xslt stylesheets on the web to transform Docbook to virtually any format. Yes, this is the power and beauty of DocBook. Will we loose the features of htmlize.el? I'm not familiar with the Docbook DTD - I know it includes lots of elements. How about time/date types, Programming types (string, variable, class, function)? I have not tried it, but it seems that syntax highlighting of source code listing can be done. See this page: http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/SyntaxHighlighting.html Wouldn't it be easier to transform the XHTML to docbook through xslt? The types are not lost, since all types that emacs is aware of, are exported as span class=type.../span. It should be DocBook - XHTML if we are talking about general publishing. DocBook has enough features, tags, and more importantly, much more available tools. Baoqiu ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Sebastian Rose sebastian_r...@gmx.de writes: I have not tried it, but it seems that syntax highlighting of source code listing can be done. See this page: http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/SyntaxHighlighting.html Does this know about the fonts and colors I use in Emacs? htmlize.el does. I don't think it will use the fonts and colors that you use in Emacs. The colors seem to be configurable, though. Wouldn't it be easier to transform the XHTML to docbook through xslt? The types are not lost, since all types that emacs is aware of, are exported as span class=type.../span. It should be DocBook - XHTML if we are talking about general publishing. DocBook has enough features, tags, and more importantly, much more available tools. ...and needs an editor like emacs/Org-mode because there is none :-) I am just thinking that by supporting DocBook export we can turn Emacs + Org-mode into a good DocBook editor, which should be much more powerful than other GUI-based XML/DocBook editors. but A) Most of those tools are simply XML related. XHTML is XML. B) We have those information the *.org file format gives us. XHTML export can display all those. C) Do you really want to tell a windows user to setup a complete SGML system, just to publish to PDF or XHTML? I have to *emphasize* this earlier: I am NOT suggesting that we should replace LaTeX or XHTML exporters with a DocBook exporter. Both LaTeX and XHTML exporters have their good features and I don't think DocBook can replace them. DocBook exporter can simply be another addition to Org-mode, and it can be used by people who need to write DocBook documents for publishing. (People use DocBook on both Windows and Unix, and normally they do not have to know the internal setup of all DocBook tools.) It's true: Docbook is more general in sense of more non-org-users might know Docbook, than Orgs XHTML export format. But for sure more non-org-users will understand the XHTML, than the Docbook. Once we have the DocBook exporter, people do not have to know DocBook at all to write DocBook documents. All they need to know is simply text files written in Org format. :-) The DocBook documents they generate from Org-mode will be guaranteed to be valid and well-formed. I hihgly apreciate the support of Docbook and your effort. Yet, I think I don't want to publish XHTML through Docbook. Again, I am not suggesting that we replace current XHTML exporter, which is a great tool and I can see that people already put a lot of efforts there to make it very powerful. DocBook is just an addition. (Certainly people can use exported DocBook format to generate XHTML format in some styles different from Org-mode's native XHTML export result.) Right now, I have a bunch of org-files, and I get a bunch of XHTML files as output. Nothing else. No special setup required, no xslt stylesheets, no FO or saxon.jar in $CLASSPATH (how many users know the contents of his $CLASSPATH ?), xsltproc, xslt stylesheets, no waiting for a Java-Application (I prefer C/C++ Tools), no waisted disk space, no external dependencies. This is understandable. But generating DocBook documents from Emacs + Org-mode does not require these things either! How users use the generated DocBook XML files for their publishing tasks (including how to configure and tweak the final PDF format, and how to display them well as XHTML in browser, etc.) are really up to them; such things are outside of Emacs + Org-mode! [To me, within an Org-mode buffer, I can use one key binding to do all the thing I need: exporting DocBook format, creating PDF and HTML formats from exported DocBook file, etc. If I want, I can generate the info file, man page, pure text format or RTF, etc. at the same time too.] We can't force end users to use Docbook to get XHTML. ... We should NOT. :-) ... Java is _not_ part of emacs, xsltproc is not part of emacs either (most of this is true for LaTeX). The XHTML export _is_ part of emacs and has _no_ external dependencies. It's results are pages displayed in every browser, even text browsers. This is nice for XHTML exporter. The results of DocBook exporter are not supposed to be displayed directly on any browsers, just like we do not expect any browsers to display *.tex files from LaTeX exporter. Docbook is displayed correctly in some of those browsers but only in conjunction with a stylesheet. But not enough to publish Docbook and your done. That's why Docbook is hardly ever met in the wild. It's badly supported by the tools for end users and as complicated to setup, use and transform as LaTeX (but LaTeX _is_ met in a lot in the wild). Neither LaTeX nor DocBook is easy to set up. While LaTeX is popular in academia, not so many software companies use it to write software documentation. Please don't get me wrong. I really think supporting Docbook is a big step. I suddenly would have a cool Docbook editor on all the systems I work on!
[Orgmode] Re: DocBook exporter for Org-mode
Sebastian Rose sebastian_r...@gmx.de writes: The LaTeX and XHTML export (which, by the way, could be transformed just as good as docbook) work and are widely used. I'm not sure sure. I think docbook is much more content oriented than LaTeX and xhtml, which seem to be more presentation oriented. To me anyway. -Dale -- Dale P. Smith da...@vtiinstruments.com 216-447-4059 x2018 216-447-8951 FAX (Company mandated disclaimer follows...) The information in this e-mail and any attachments is intended solely for use by the recipient(s) to whom this e-mail is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information which is exempt from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail and any attachments in error and that dissemination, distribution, review or copying of this e-mail and its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all electronic and paper copies of this e-mail as well as any attachments. Thank you. http://www.vtiinstruments.com/images/vtiemaillogo.gif ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
