Re: [O] Extra space between list items in HTML export
Hi Richard, Richard Stanton stan...@haas.berkeley.edu writes: To work around this, I use h:2 (say) so that I can make my TODO items third-level headers and have them printed as an itemized list, as desired. With the new behavior, this seems impossible, but I can't believe I'm the only person for whom this is a useful capability. Using the new HTML exporter with this file: #+OPTIONS: H:2 num:t toc:nil * one ** two *** three *** three (bis) I get an enumerated list for three and three (bis) -- maybe I lost track of what the problem was, but this looks like what you are looking for, doesn't it? Thanks, -- Bastien
Re: [O] Extra space between list items in HTML export
From: Bastien Guerry [mailto:bastiengue...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Bastien Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 11:53 PM To: Richard Stanton Cc: nicholas.do...@hp.com; emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Extra space between list items in HTML export Hi Richard, Richard Stanton stan...@haas.berkeley.edu writes: To work around this, I use h:2 (say) so that I can make my TODO items third-level headers and have them printed as an itemized list, as desired. With the new behavior, this seems impossible, but I can't believe I'm the only person for whom this is a useful capability. Using the new HTML exporter with this file: #+OPTIONS: H:2 num:t toc:nil * one ** two *** three *** three (bis) I get an enumerated list for three and three (bis) -- maybe I lost track of what the problem was, but this looks like what you are looking for, doesn't it? Yes - I thought you were advocating changing this behavior, but rereading your message, I now don't think you were...
Re: [O] Extra space between list items in HTML export
Richard Stanton stan...@haas.berkeley.edu writes: Yes - I thought you were advocating changing this behavior, but rereading your message, I now don't think you were... Okay, looks good, sorry if I was unclear! -- Bastien
Re: [O] Extra space between list items in HTML export
From: Bastien Guerry [mailto:bastiengue...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Bastien Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 9:45 AM To: Richard Stanton Cc: nicholas.do...@hp.com; emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Extra space between list items in HTML export Richard Stanton stan...@haas.berkeley.edu writes: Yes - I thought you were advocating changing this behavior, but rereading your message, I now don't think you were... Okay, looks good, sorry if I was unclear! What you wrote was perfectly clear. It was my reading that had problems...
Re: [O] Extra space between list items in HTML export
Hi Nick, Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com writes: I just wanted to emphasize the importance of consistency (probably preaching to the choir). FWIW, I strongly agree consistency is important and this is why the release of Org 8.0 will require a lot of testing. -- Bastien
Re: [O] Extra space between list items in HTML export
Hi Richard, Richard Stanton stan...@haas.berkeley.edu writes: #+OPTIONS: h:2, toc:nil ^ (Note that the comma is not needed here.) -- Bastien
Re: [O] Extra space between list items in HTML export
Hi Nick, Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com writes: The old exporter does that: it breaks the second up into three lists, each with a single element. The first is a single list with three elements. Which is wrong IMO. The new exporter produces a single list with three elements, although it includes the section number for each entry - this might be a bug. Which is right. 1 to 0 for the new exporter! -- Bastien
Re: [O] Extra space between list items in HTML export
Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com writes: With Richard's example[fn:1] and the new exporter, we get different behavior with HTML and latex (without the num: option or with num:t): o the second list is unordered in HTML, but enumerated in latex. o we get third level section numbers decorating the list entries in HTML, but not in latex. Somebody needs to decide what the behavior should be, but then *every* exporter should behave the same way wrt that set of options. I think headings that are lower than the n level in #+OPTION h:n should be replaced by enumarated list when num:t and by unordered list items when num:nil. If we all agree, let's move toward this. Thanks, -- Bastien
Re: [O] Extra space between list items in HTML export
Hi Nick, Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com writes: The old exporter does that: it breaks the second up into three lists, each with a single element. The first is a single list with three elements. Which is wrong IMO. The new exporter produces a single list with three elements, although it includes the section number for each entry - this might be a bug. Which is right. 1 to 0 for the new exporter! -- Bastien I prefer the old behavior. Let me explain why, in case there's another way to achieve what I want. Often I want to create a simple list of TODO items, where I don't want each item to start a new section, with all the extra space, bold fonts, etc., that entails. I'd do this using a standard itemized list, except that (at least last time I checked) org mode insists on TODO items being headers. To work around this, I use h:2 (say) so that I can make my TODO items third-level headers and have them printed as an itemized list, as desired. With the new behavior, this seems impossible, but I can't believe I'm the only person for whom this is a useful capability. Richard
Re: [O] Extra space between list items in HTML export
With Richard's example[fn:1] and the new exporter, we get different behavior with HTML and latex (without the num: option or with num:t): o the second list is unordered in HTML, but enumerated in latex. o we get third level section numbers decorating the list entries in HTML, but not in latex. I think our mails crossed. This should be fixed. Remember, I have not marked HTML and ODT exporters for release. They are marked as alpha only. What may seems as bugs, could well be something that is partially done. [fn:1] I reproduce it here for convenience: #+OPTIONS: h:2 toc:nil * Example of itemized list ** Blank level 2 header - List 1 - List 2 - List 3 * Level 3 headings as itemized list, with extra space ** Blank level 2 header *** List 1 *** List 2 *** List 3
Re: [O] Extra space between list items in HTML export
Jambunathan K kjambunat...@gmail.com wrote: With Richard's example[fn:1] and the new exporter, we get different behavior with HTML and latex (without the num: option or with num:t): o the second list is unordered in HTML, but enumerated in latex. o we get third level section numbers decorating the list entries in HTML, but not in latex. I think our mails crossed. This should be fixed. Oh, indeed - they are consistent now. Thanks! Remember, I have not marked HTML and ODT exporters for release. They are marked as alpha only. What may seems as bugs, could well be something that is partially done. Understood - but there is still the fact that different exporters are written by different people: they are bound to diverge unless some energy is expended to keep them in line. I just wanted to emphasize the importance of consistency (probably preaching to the choir). Thanks, Nick
Re: [O] Extra space between list items in HTML export
Richard Stanton stan...@haas.berkeley.edu wrote: I often use the h:2 option to turn level 3 headers into itemized list entri= es. When exporting to LaTeX/PDF, the spacing between items is the same this= way as it is when I use an explicit itemized list. When exporting to HTML,= however, there's some extra space inserted between items when they were or= iginally headers. Here's an example. Export to HTML and you'll see the diff= erent spacing: - #+OPTIONS: h:2, toc:nil * Example of itemized list ** Blank level 2 header - List 1 - List 2 - List 3 * Level 3 headings as itemized list, with extra space ** Blank level 2 header *** List 1 *** List 2 *** List 3 The old exporter does that: it breaks the second up into three lists, each with a single element. The first is a single list with three elements. The new exporter produces a single list with three elements, although it includes the section number for each entry - this might be a bug. Nick
Re: [O] Extra space between list items in HTML export
From: nicholas.do...@hp.com [mailto:nicholas.do...@hp.com] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 2:37 PM #+OPTIONS: h:2, toc:nil * Example of itemized list ** Blank level 2 header - List 1 - List 2 - List 3 * Level 3 headings as itemized list, with extra space ** Blank level 2 header *** List 1 *** List 2 *** List 3 The old exporter does that: it breaks the second up into three lists, each with a single element. The first is a single list with three elements. The new exporter produces a single list with three elements, although it includes the section number for each entry - this might be a bug. Nick I also get the section number included as part of the list item text. This does look like a bug. When I use the new exporter to export to LaTeX/PDF, I get no section numbers, but I get a numbered, rather than itemized, list. This also seems like a (different) bug. Richard
Re: [O] Extra space between list items in HTML export
From: nicholas.do...@hp.com [mailto:nicholas.do...@hp.com] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 2:37 PM #+OPTIONS: h:2, toc:nil * Example of itemized list ** Blank level 2 header - List 1 - List 2 - List 3 * Level 3 headings as itemized list, with extra space ** Blank level 2 header *** List 1 *** List 2 *** List 3 The old exporter does that: it breaks the second up into three lists, each with a single element. The first is a single list with three elements. The new exporter produces a single list with three elements, although it includes the section number for each entry - this might be a bug. Nick I also get the section number included as part of the list item text. This does look like a bug. When I use the new exporter to export to LaTeX/PDF, I get no section numbers, but I get a numbered, rather than itemized, list. This also seems like a (different) bug. I have pushed a fix to org-e-html.el. The depth of numbering is according to the value of num:N spec. Use num:2 instead of num:t to get the numbering behaviour you desire. If something is not according to taste, point me to the markup that is missing or which needs to be removed (instead of describing it in English) Richard --
Re: [O] Extra space between list items in HTML export
On 9/10/12 4:31 PM, Jambunathan K kjambunat...@gmail.com wrote: From: nicholas.do...@hp.com [mailto:nicholas.do...@hp.com] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 2:37 PM #+OPTIONS: h:2, toc:nil * Example of itemized list ** Blank level 2 header - List 1 - List 2 - List 3 * Level 3 headings as itemized list, with extra space ** Blank level 2 header *** List 1 *** List 2 *** List 3 The old exporter does that: it breaks the second up into three lists, each with a single element. The first is a single list with three elements. The new exporter produces a single list with three elements, although it includes the section number for each entry - this might be a bug. Nick I also get the section number included as part of the list item text. This does look like a bug. When I use the new exporter to export to LaTeX/PDF, I get no section numbers, but I get a numbered, rather than itemized, list. This also seems like a (different) bug. I have pushed a fix to org-e-html.el. The depth of numbering is according to the value of num:N spec. Use num:2 instead of num:t to get the numbering behaviour you desire. If something is not according to taste, point me to the markup that is missing or which needs to be removed (instead of describing it in English) Richard -- Thanks. I'll try the new version. Meanwhile, as I understand it (and as implemented in the old exporter), h:2 should mean that only two levels of section headings should be created at all. Level 3 should be an itemized list (and therefore, implicitly, should not have a number). Thus, h:2 should imply n:2, I believe.
Re: [O] Extra space between list items in HTML export
Richard Stanton stan...@haas.berkeley.edu writes: On 9/10/12 4:31 PM, Jambunathan K kjambunat...@gmail.com wrote: From: nicholas.do...@hp.com [mailto:nicholas.do...@hp.com] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 2:37 PM #+OPTIONS: h:2, toc:nil * Example of itemized list ** Blank level 2 header - List 1 - List 2 - List 3 * Level 3 headings as itemized list, with extra space ** Blank level 2 header *** List 1 *** List 2 *** List 3 The old exporter does that: it breaks the second up into three lists, each with a single element. The first is a single list with three elements. The new exporter produces a single list with three elements, although it includes the section number for each entry - this might be a bug. Nick I also get the section number included as part of the list item text. This does look like a bug. When I use the new exporter to export to LaTeX/PDF, I get no section numbers, but I get a numbered, rather than itemized, list. This also seems like a (different) bug. I have pushed a fix to org-e-html.el. The depth of numbering is according to the value of num:N spec. Use num:2 instead of num:t to get the numbering behaviour you desire. If something is not according to taste, point me to the markup that is missing or which needs to be removed (instead of describing it in English) Richard -- Thanks. I'll try the new version. Meanwhile, as I understand it (and as implemented in the old exporter), h:2 should mean that only two levels of section headings should be created at all. Level 3 should be an itemized list (and therefore, implicitly, should not have a number). Thus, h:2 should imply n:2, I believe. New exporter is, hmmm, new. You can still get the old behaviour. So, that leaves us with no scope for complaining. I am merely following what Ngz has advised us.
Re: [O] Extra space between list items in HTML export
On 9/10/12 4:45 PM, Jambunathan K kjambunat...@gmail.com wrote: Richard Stanton stan...@haas.berkeley.edu writes: On 9/10/12 4:31 PM, Jambunathan K kjambunat...@gmail.com wrote: From: nicholas.do...@hp.com [mailto:nicholas.do...@hp.com] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 2:37 PM #+OPTIONS: h:2, toc:nil * Example of itemized list ** Blank level 2 header - List 1 - List 2 - List 3 * Level 3 headings as itemized list, with extra space ** Blank level 2 header *** List 1 *** List 2 *** List 3 The old exporter does that: it breaks the second up into three lists, each with a single element. The first is a single list with three elements. The new exporter produces a single list with three elements, although it includes the section number for each entry - this might be a bug. Nick I also get the section number included as part of the list item text. This does look like a bug. When I use the new exporter to export to LaTeX/PDF, I get no section numbers, but I get a numbered, rather than itemized, list. This also seems like a (different) bug. I have pushed a fix to org-e-html.el. The depth of numbering is according to the value of num:N spec. Use num:2 instead of num:t to get the numbering behaviour you desire. If something is not according to taste, point me to the markup that is missing or which needs to be removed (instead of describing it in English) Richard -- Thanks. I'll try the new version. Meanwhile, as I understand it (and as implemented in the old exporter), h:2 should mean that only two levels of section headings should be created at all. Level 3 should be an itemized list (and therefore, implicitly, should not have a number). Thus, h:2 should imply n:2, I believe. New exporter is, hmmm, new. You can still get the old behaviour. So, that leaves us with no scope for complaining. I am merely following what Ngz has advised us. The HTML and LaTeX/PDF behavior are now the same, and I can see why the new behavior is better than the old, since it allows more options, so I'll stop complaining. For a while, anyway... Thanks.
Re: [O] Extra space between list items in HTML export
Richard Stanton stan...@haas.berkeley.edu wrote: Meanwhile, as I understand it (and as implemented in the old exporter), h:2 should mean that only two levels of section headings should be created at all. Level 3 should be an itemized list (and therefore, implicitly, should not have a number). Thus, h:2 should imply n:2, I believe. From my POV, it's not particularly important that the two knobs be linked: in fact, if they are linked too strongly, there should probably be just one knob; if they are linked but the linkage is weak, they become sources of confusion and misunderstanding. I think independent knobs make things easier most of the time and having to specify them explicitly in the #+OPTIONS: line helps make things unambiguous (and they are very useful when one revisits the file in six months, after having customized a bunch of things that would otherwise change the behaviour: I don't know about you but it's this kind of thing that gets me every time). What is *very* important is that all exporters treat them the *same* way. With Richard's example[fn:1] and the new exporter, we get different behavior with HTML and latex (without the num: option or with num:t): o the second list is unordered in HTML, but enumerated in latex. o we get third level section numbers decorating the list entries in HTML, but not in latex. Somebody needs to decide what the behavior should be, but then *every* exporter should behave the same way wrt that set of options. Sure, there will be situations where it will be impossible to keep them all compatible. Those will be exceptions, treated and documented as such. In particular, the common set of options in the manual should be sacrosanct. If a particular exporter decides to implement a private option, that's OK (there is a parallel with babel language headers here): add a description in worg on a page specific to that exporter. So there'll be three classes of options: o common - all exporters treat them the same way. o private. o incompatible - different exporters by necessity treat them differently. The third set should be as close to empty as humanly possible (and very carefully documented - in the manual, not on worg - if non-empty). OTOH, gratuitous differences should be squashed mercilessly. My 2 cents, Nick PS. Consistency may be the hobgoblin of little minds, but it's still very important. And Emerson said: A foolish consistency ... in any case :-) Footnotes: [fn:1] I reproduce it here for convenience: --8---cut here---start-8--- #+OPTIONS: h:2 toc:nil * Example of itemized list ** Blank level 2 header - List 1 - List 2 - List 3 * Level 3 headings as itemized list, with extra space ** Blank level 2 header *** List 1 *** List 2 *** List 3 --8---cut here---end---8---
