Re: [Orgmode] Re: Footnotes and org-export, revisited
On Dec 17, 2008, at 6:18 PM, Sivaram Neelakantan wrote:
Paul R paul.r...@gmail.com writes:
[...]
Can others express their views on pros and cons of the two following
usages :
* Usage 1, anonymous footnotes
Karate or karate-do is a martial art developed in the Ryukyu Islands
from indigenous fighting methods and Chinese kenpō[fn:: Kenpo is the
name of several martial arts].
[...]
And then we will have that one feature request to cross reference a
previous footnote! :-) In the above case, how would a person go
about asking someone to refer to an earlier footnote?
* Usage 2, keyword named footnotes
Karate or karate-do is a martial art developed in the Ryukyu Islands
from indigenous fighting methods and Chinese kenpō[fn:kenpo]. It is
primarily a striking art using punching, kicking, knee and elbow
strikes
and open-handed techniques such as knife-hands and ridge-hands.
[fn:kenpo] Kenpo is the name of several martial arts
Unless I've got it wrong, wouldn't it be better to do something like
[fn:kenpo { Kenpo is the name of several martial arts}]
(keep the keyword and definition in one place?)
And all future references go as 'see [fn:kenpo] to understand the
meaning'. Presumably when exported, all these keywords stuff
disappears and are replaced by standard LaTeX style footnote numbers,
right?
[...]
Hi Sivaram, I can see how this would be represented in
HTML (just several links to the same footnote), but how
would you represent this in LaTeX?
- Carsten
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Re: [Orgmode] Re: Footnotes and org-export, revisited
On Dec 17, 2008, at 6:18 PM, Sivaram Neelakantan wrote:
Paul R paul.r...@gmail.com writes:
* Usage 1, anonymous footnotes
[snip]
And then we will have that one feature request to cross reference a
previous footnote! :-) In the above case, how would a person go
about asking someone to refer to an earlier footnote?
* Usage 2, keyword named footnotes
[snip]
Unless I've got it wrong, wouldn't it be better to do something like
[fn:kenpo { Kenpo is the name of several martial arts}]
(keep the keyword and definition in one place?)
And all future references go as 'see [fn:kenpo] to understand the
meaning'.
Maybe re-use the same concepts of urls? And combine anonymous and
labeled footnotes at once? And references?
labeled: [[fn:label][text]]
anonymous: [[fn:]][text]]
reference: [[fn:label]]
(In the reference form, the reference could become a clickable link.)
Example 1:
This is the body of the text.[[fn:xyz][And this is the text of the
footnote]] It indeed is a silly piece of text, but what would you
expect?[[fn:abc][It's showing off references to previous footnotes, as
well.[fn:xyz]]]
Example 2:
You can also use the references to put the footnote text out of the
body text[[fn:xyzzy]].
[[fn:xyzzy][This footnote illustrates the out-of-the-body principle.]]
Maybe too many brackets?
Cheers,
Peter.
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Re: [Orgmode] Re: Footnotes and org-export, revisited
Sorry, let a typo slip in: On Dec 18, 2008, at 11:34 AM, peter.fri...@agfa.com wrote: [snip] labeled: [[fn:label][text]] anonymous: [[fn:]][text]] reference: [[fn:label]] Must of course be: anonymous: [[fn:][text]] Cheers, Peter. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: Footnotes and org-export, revisited
I was away from my computer for a few hours and was delighted to discover this thread. This truly is an amazing mailing list. Scot Becker scot.bec...@gmail.com writes: I'm torn. Usage 1 is harder to read. My footnotes, for example, are very long compared to your example. Of course, within emacs, this could be made much less severe with a little syntax coloring. It has the advantage that it never gets lost or otherwise mangled without your knowledge, and you don't have to wonder whether you used 'kenpo' as a reference already, and just what might be the consequences if you did. It's only liability is readability. I would agree that anonymous foonotes are more stable and reliable for authors, since they're embedded in the text and are easy to move (consisting as they do of only one part). I really like how elegant footnote markup is in LaTeX. AUCTeX solves readability problems by allowing the user to fold footnote macros and by indenting the text of footnotes when filling paragraphs. I wonder whether something similar could be implemented in in org-mode (perhaps akin to the way org-mode already hides links). Usage 2 is easier to read, which is the trend in plain-text markup these days. Pandoc, Multi-Markdown and ReST all do it this way, which isn't to say that we should. It is a little more fragile, since I might move the paragraph and forget its accompanying footnote, and it leaves the user to come up with an original reference name, which could get to be burdensome in if you try to write in an academic field which averages 3-5 footnotes per page (1 per 75 words or so). It's also more typing work. I once played around with ReST, footnote export was fairly finicky. (I'm more than willing to attribute this to my own lack of understanding). It can be tricky to think of unique labels for each footnote and to keep references in order. As I understand it, the primary rationale for labelled footnotes in simple markup is to create a source text that someone unfamiliar with the markup can read easily. Since org-mode has ASCII export capabilities and can hide markup when displaying text (e.g., hyperlinks, drawers), I wonder whether these legibility issues are quite so crucial. Best, Matt ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: Footnotes and org-export, revisited
I really like how elegant footnote markup is in LaTeX. AUCTeX solves readability problems by allowing the user to fold footnote macros and by indenting the text of footnotes when filling paragraphs. I wonder whether something similar could be implemented in in org-mode (perhaps akin to the way org-mode already hides links). I do like this idea, if it's practical to implement, since it preserves readability and stability. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
