Todd has a very good question. I don't know of any test lab that
takes 3 days to complete emissions testing on one product! (In the
context of this debate, I don't think we're talking about doing any
immunity testing - just emissions). I don't think a lab that works
that slow would stay in business very long.
On the other hand, 4 hours to complete testing seems a bit quick,
especially if an OATS is used. In know that on our OATS, it is a
rather tedious process to identify product emissions among all the
ambient signals. I can believe a 4 hour test if it's in an anechoic
chamber.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RE: Korea in a Nut Shell
Author: Todd Robinson <t...@ckc.com> at SMTPGWY
List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org
Date: 8/5/97 2:07 AM
Just out of curiosity, I would like to know what test procedures are being
done in 1 day at a Korean lab that takes 4 days at a "US Lab?" Completely
unbelievable examples ruin the validity of the argument . . .
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Garwood [SMTP:aust...@mpx.com.au]
Sent: Monday, August 04, 1997 9:33 AM
To: Ryan Kim
Cc: eric.lif...@natinst.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: Korea in a Nut Shell
I havn't stopped laughing since receiving the tyrade from Ryan Kim with
comments such as:
>> ** Each test take approximately 4 hours and issuing the report another
2 hours. Which lab is so notoriously slow at doing report. America lab
spend at least one shift (8 hours) for the test. Normally 2-3 shifts for
the one model. And charge U$1500 (for example) for the shift. So total
test fee would be U$4,500 and spend 3 days. And
issuing the report the next day. So, approximately 4 days (if lucky)
would be needed to get report with so much money.
Korea labs! one day job for the test and report with U$600. Test
procedure is same and testing equipment is same too compared to America
lab. Now, compare Korea lab to America lab. Which lab is so fast with
less money.
I suggest Ryan cools down before causing a diplomatic incident & looks at
the situation from a manufacturer's point of view (not from a lab's). If
as he states, the test proceedure & test equipment is the same as US
labs(I'll include Australia, EU members and most other countries with
accredited facilities) then why must the equipment be retested in Korea.
Isn't this in contravention of the spirit of GATT ?
Most accrediation bodies such as NVLAP,AALA,NATA,NAMAS etc have
bilateral & multilateral recognition agreements for the acceptance of
test data to avoid unnecessary duplication of testing + cost. Korea
should not have implemented an EMC regime before ensuring fair and
reasonable access, and certainly not without comprehensive MRA's in
place.
If Ryan can pour thru 120 products in 1 month (note there is no mention
of Failures !!!) it just goes to prove this is a cynical exercise in
income protection for Korean (and any other anointed labs), and serves
to exclude products & companies from the Korean market that maintain
tight profit margins and don't have the infrastructure of their own test
facilities.
It is up to manufacturer's to lobby their Govt's to ensure fair &
reasonable access to export markets without contending with artificial
hurdles that serve to protect local conglomerates.
Best Regards.
Ryan Kim wrote:
>
> Haitong EMC Inc.
> Tel : 82-339-376-4117
> Fax : 82-339-376-4118
> Email : hait...@soback.kornet.nm.kr
> Ryan Kim / President of Haitong EMC Inc.
>
> ----------
> $)C
> > :83= ;g6w: eric.lif...@natinst.com
> > 9^4B ;g6w: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
> > A&8q: Korea in a Nut Shell
> > 3/B%: 19973b 7?y 31@O 8q?d@O ?@@| 5:52
> >
> >
> What a surprise!
>
> Where did you get those wrong information on Korea
> EMI regulation. I wish you have confidence before
> post your opinion.
>
> >
> > A past posting requested info about Korea EMC Requirements. Here's
what
> > I've learned, condensed for your reading pleasure, and interpretted for
> > it's deeper meaning.
> >
> > A foreign company must hire a Korean EMC lab to represent them for
> > government certification, and pay the lab accordingly for the emission
> > tests, report creation, and submission of the whole thing to the Korean
> > authorities - along with the required fee. User manuals must be
> translated
> > into Hangul/Korean. You might also have to provide full schematic
> diagrams
> > with the test report.
> >
> ** What did you mean hire Korean EMC lab. For the Korea
> EMI, only Korea government authorized lab can issue the
> report to apply for the final certi from the government.
> Mostly in Korea (31 labs) and 4 in United States (IBM).
> Why don't you apply for the Korea EMI lab accredition
> instead of hiring Korea lab! There is no law that other
> contries lab can not apply for the accredition. 4 IBM labs
> approve the fact. Normal charge for the test and report
> is U$600 per model which is almost one third of America
> lab charges. Submission fee to the government is U$70
> which is more than 1/10 of FCC application fee. Korea
> EMI lab issue the report and get test and report fee as
> well as application from the applicant and submmit test
> report to the government with submission fee without
> extra charge. What is wrong with that? Also, EMI lab
> get the certi and delivery to the applicant. Certi
> is issued within 3 days after the submission which is
> really short period of time compared to the other countries.
>
> User's manual must be translated in to Korean because
> Korea government wants to let Korean people have the
> Korean written manual for the purchasing imported devices.
> If you do not translate your manual and supply with English
> manual, how Korean people read your manual and understand
> how operate? We, Korean people have learn English to use
> your products? This is the reason why Korean government
> want to see Korean written manual and let foreign manufacturers
> supply their system with Korean written manual. I don't see
> any problem with that. If Korea manufacturer supply its system
> with Korean written user's manual, how American customer will
> act? Imagine!
>
> Full circuit diagram must be provided? Where did you get this
> wrong information? Only one page block diagran is needed.
> If you even do not want to provide one page block diagram, its
> O.K. Korea EMI lab draw the block diagram for you.
>
>
> > This must be repeated every year, and for each product. Every year,
> every
> > product (plus fees!).
> >
> ** NO! If your system is no more manufactured after one year, just
> forget it. If your system is keeping imported after the one year,
> you are subjected to have test report to check the your system's
> EMI condition to compare to the origition condition when you get
> the EMI certi. Thus, if you want have the report, apply to the
> Korea EMI lab and get the test report. We charge U$600 for the
> test and report which is same as first test and report. If we do
> not have this kind of survellience system, how Korea government
> control the inspection. Just get the Certi with good system and
> sell bad system to the public without and limit? And except
> test and report fee, no other charge and submission fee is needed.
> If your system is so good and very popular to the public in Korea,
> and keep selling for more than year with one model, get just one
> more report after one year. I bet your system would not be popular
> and would be closed within one year, then just forget about retest.
>
> > Now stop a minute and consider the impact to an imaginary company that
> > markets a relatively common but noticable number of products. Let's
toss
> > up the number 60 for products, and assume a work week in Korea is five
> days
> > long, and that we're using a typical lab with a typical open area test
> > site...
>
> ** What company have the number 60 for products? Let me know.
> Each model, let say one company have 5 computers with different
> model name and spec. If this company export 3 models to the
> Korea, only 3 computers are subject to get EMI certi.
> Now, let's assume that you use my open site.
>
> > Each emission test takes two days to run, plus time to write and
assemble
> > the test report, maybe three days total. (Labs tend to be notoriously
> slow
> > at doing reports, though.)
>
> ** Each test take approximately 4 hours and issuing the report another
> 2 hours. Which lab is so notoriously slow at doing report.
> America lab spend at least one shift (8 hours) for the test.
Normally
> 2-3 shifts for the one model. And charge U$1500 (for example) for
the
> shift. So total test fee would be U$4,500 and spend 3 days. And
> issuing
> the report the next day. So, approximately 4 days (if lucky) would
be
>
> needed to get report with so much money.
>
> Korea labs! one day job for the test and report with U$600. Test
> procedure
> is same and testing equipment is same too compared to America lab.
>
> Now, compare Korea lab to America lab. Which lab is so fast with
less
> money.
>
> One big Amreica company visited my lab 10 days ago with 2 computer
> systems.
> I finished test within 1 shift and next day I issued report. They
> were
> so glad for the finishing so quickly with less money. They expected
> more than
> 4 days staying in Korea because they have many such time consuming
> experience
> in Amreica.
>
> If you want to see the proof, just contact me. I will show you.
> >
>
> > Three times 60 means that 180 EMI lab working days are required to
> > completely run through all the products our imaginary company makes.
> That
> > amounts to 36 weeks or 9 months of almost continuous testing at one
lab.
>
> ** I even do not want mention about this. Because it is just your
> imagine
> and mathemetical multiflying. Last months, I finished 120 models
> test
> and report and of course all of them got the certi. We work
24hours
> a
> day if we have many require without getting extra pay. That means
> we can finish 6 models a day with one test site. Lab working days
> are
> the term of America's not Korea's. I really don't understand why
> you
> put the meaning of working days. Your people prefer to have not
> Korean.
> We charge U$600 for the test and report per model not by testing
> hours
> or shift. So, I even do not know the meaning of "EMI Lab working
> days"
>
> What does 36 weeks, 9 months mean? Do you think we Koreans are
very
>
> undeveloped country people?
> >
> > Imagine if this company markets 120 products. Now it needs 18 months
of
> > testing. Oh darn, they don't make years that long, do they? It's now
> time
> > for the EMC lab to work two shifts, or hire a 2nd lab!
> >
> ** Oh God, getting deeper. Send 120 products to me and I can finish
> within one month for the certi. My question. What company
markets
> 120 products within one month? Let me know. I want to contatc
them
> to make money within one month. And we don't wait until 120
systems
> get test report. We go for the one test and report get certi as
you
> may, may know.
>
>
>
> > We have nearly 200 products now and are still growing. (We can't
> obsolete
> > things nearly as often as we'd like, people still need QBus cards for
> their
> > good old PDP-11s.) Anyway, we'd need 30 months now for a single shift
at
> > the lab, two shifts needs 15 months - whoops, still three months left
> over!
> > Gadfry! we'd need three shifts!
>
> ** I have one big American company customer. They markets more than
> 600
> products per year to Korea. They don't have any complain and very
> glad
> to Korea regulation in terms of time and money. 200 products,
peace
> of
> cake. Don't worry be happy. Contact me for the Korea EMI. If I
> spend
> more than two months to get all of 200 system's EMI certi, I would
> not
> charge any cost. Free! Free!
> >
> Instead, let's guess that Korea company has 200 products which
need
> marketing
> to the United States. How long time and how much money that Korea
> company
> has to spend!!!!
>
> > So we've just determined that, for a company of our size, we would have
> to
> > purchase a Korean EMC lab (to assure access and priority, how else
could
> it
> > be done?) and staff it to run three shifts. It would still take nearly
> an
> > entire year to finish the first round of testing. Oh yeah, I was so
> > worried about just finding TIME to run the tests, I forgot to consider
> the
> > COST, or even if there are enough Korean labs to go around.
>
> ** Your people work so slowly like that? Then purchase my lab and
hire
> me
> as your test engineer and pay me U$3,000 per months. Then I will
> finish
> 200 systems within 2 months and will relax, sit back for more than
1
> year
> to wait another 200 products. Cost? 200 products X U$600 =
> U$120,000.
> You pay me just U$6,000 for two months salery and you can save
> U$114,000.
> How much money Korea company has to pay to get 200 products FCC
> approval?
> I bet you must underestimate Korea and Koreans!!!
> > FCC DOESN'T ACCREDITTED ANY KOREA LABS AS NVLAB!!! DID YOU KNOW
> THIS?
>
> > (Ha ha ha ha!) *** No good! What's so funny.
> >
>
> > Good luck to the rest of you that have the TIME. As for me, I'm going
> to
> > sit back and watch the fireworks.
> >
> ** Good luck to you too. I will sit back and wait until you purchase
my
> lab. Pay me U$ 1 million for my test lab. It is cheap price since
> my net profit is more than half million dollars per year.
> Be real! Instead of sitting back, be a business man and try to
make
> money
> not just complaing.
>
> ** Wish to hear from you soon not compain but your opinion with
correct
> information.
>
> ** Bye now. I have to go for 20 system test which I got today.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ryan Kim
>
> >
