Re: [PSES] 10 MHz mag field for EN 61000-4-10
In message 20130618.073854.236474654.vef00...@nifty.ne.jp, dated Tue, 18 Jun 2013, T. Sato vef00...@nifty.ne.jp writes: The waveform is probably one of the fast damped oscillatory waves specified in IEC 61000-4-18, which simulate oscillatory waves generated in gas insulated substations for example. This does include a 10 MHz waveform, but the test is to apply a voltage, not a magnetic field. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Why is the stapler always empty just when you want it? John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] 10 MHz mag field for EN 61000-4-10
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 07:02:58 +0100, John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk wrote: In message 20130618.073854.236474654.vef00...@nifty.ne.jp, dated Tue, 18 Jun 2013, T. Sato vef00...@nifty.ne.jp writes: The waveform is probably one of the fast damped oscillatory waves specified in IEC 61000-4-18, which simulate oscillatory waves generated in gas insulated substations for example. This does include a 10 MHz waveform, but the test is to apply a voltage, not a magnetic field. Yes, and damped oscillatory magnetic field test are described in IEC 61000-4-10 although I don't have the latest edition of EN 61000-4-10 and don't know whether 10 MHz test method is included in the standard. However, if it is not included yet or if it is included and the generator specification doesn't contradict with that of IEC 61000-4-18 generator, I think it is possible to generate the required magnetic field using IEC 61000-4-18 generator and the test method described in IEC 61000-4-10. At least for slow damped oscillatory magnetic field, some manufactures offer their IEC 61000-4-18 test generator as the current source, I think. Regards, Tom -- Tomonori Sato vef00...@nifty.ne.jp URL: http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato/ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] safety 60950 and surge suppression circuits - 13A plugs
Joe, My memories of the early 13 A plugs in the UK is their consistency rather than inconsistency. I was in TV design at that time. Traditionally the early TV power supplies used a half-wave rectifier, so the chassis was either L or N. When the 13 A plug became widely used the chassis was inevitably poled as N. Good is some respects, but bad for the electricity supply as only current was drawn during the positive a.c. cycle. With all the 13 A plug TVs drawing a d.c. component from the a.c. mains that really upset the power distribution transformers. It was therefore decreed that half-wave rectification was banned and only full-wave rectifiers could be used in the TV power supplies. Mick On 05/06/2013 23:08, Joe Randolph wrote: Hi Rich: /SNIP /CLAUSE 6.1.2 Clause 6.1.2 is the one that addresses the problem of hazards within the equipment getting onto the phone line and injuring a telephone service person who is working on the network. I think the origin of this requirement comes from the old UK standard BS 6301, and was based on the possibility that a mis-wired mains plug could result in the equipment ground wire being connected to a live mains wire (this fault mechanism is more common in the UK than in most other countries due to the way consumers deal with conflicting plug configurations). So, in this case, an equipment chassis that is supposed to be grounded becomes hot. SNIP - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] safety 60950 and surge suppression circuits - 13A plugs
In message 6.1.0.6.2.20130618130138.056f9...@pop.randolph-telecom.com, dated Tue, 18 Jun 2013, Joe Randolph j...@randolph-telecom.com writes: Someone from the UK explained to me that in the UK, there was a time when two different mains plug styles were widely used. When a customer went to a store and bought an AC mains-powered product, the product was delivered with no plug on the mains cord. The customer was then expected to proceed to a station within the store where a store employee would attach the type of plug that the customer needed for their particular home. Some customers would skip this step and attach the plug themselves at home. Whoever told me this story said that there were many cases of users being harmed due to mis-wiring their plugs. Your informer must have been very young. There used to be at least five different mains plugs in use in Britain, and a plug-fitting station in a store was a very rare beast indeed. On the other hand, we didn't have 'cheater adapters' to any significant extent. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Why is the stapler always empty just when you want it? John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] safety 60950 and surge suppression circuits - 13A plugs
In message 009d01ce6c4c$71a42460$54ec6d20$@blueyonder.co.uk, dated Tue, 18 Jun 2013, John Allen john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk writes: BTW, a lot of the imported products actually arrive at the UK consumer with a Continental 2.5A two-pin plug fitted and a Schuko to BS1363 adaptor to adapt that plug to the UK ring-main sockets. So, mis-wiring of the Live or Neutral conductor to the Earth/Ground pin of the p Products fitted with the 6 A 2-pin connector MUST be Class II, so there is no real distinction between L and N as far as the product is concerned, and no safety issue. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Why is the stapler always empty just when you want it? John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] safety 60950 and surge suppression circuits - 13A plugs
Mick And then there was that small projection TV company that we both worked for in 1975/76 where some designer (absolutely NOT yourself!) wired up the operator control panel with about a dozen Neon indicators across the Mains from Live to Ground instead of to Neutral (before I put right!). Now that's what I call leakage current! J John From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Mick Maytum Sent: 18 June 2013 15:31 To: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org Cc: Joe Randolph Subject: Re: [PSES] safety 60950 and surge suppression circuits - 13A plugs Joe, My memories of the early 13 A plugs in the UK is their consistency rather than inconsistency. I was in TV design at that time. Traditionally the early TV power supplies used a half-wave rectifier, so the chassis was either L or N. When the 13 A plug became widely used the chassis was inevitably poled as N. Good is some respects, but bad for the electricity supply as only current was drawn during the positive a.c. cycle. With all the 13 A plug TVs drawing a d.c. component from the a.c. mains that really upset the power distribution transformers. It was therefore decreed that half-wave rectification was banned and only full-wave rectifiers could be used in the TV power supplies. Mick On 05/06/2013 23:08, Joe Randolph wrote: Hi Rich: SNIP CLAUSE 6.1.2 Clause 6.1.2 is the one that addresses the problem of hazards within the equipment getting onto the phone line and injuring a telephone service person who is working on the network. I think the origin of this requirement comes from the old UK standard BS 6301, and was based on the possibility that a mis-wired mains plug could result in the equipment ground wire being connected to a live mains wire (this fault mechanism is more common in the UK than in most other countries due to the way consumers deal with conflicting plug configurations). So, in this case, an equipment chassis that is supposed to be grounded becomes hot. SNIP - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3199/6420 - Release Date: 06/18/13 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
