Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Which Safety Test Agency Reports are accepted by City of LA Test Lab (please provide text of requirement or code)

[Ted Eckert]

Hello Leo,

Let me bring up something that may already be addressed by your customer. Large 
medical devices will likely need to meet OSHPD requirements.
http://www.oshpd.ca.gov/FDD/seismic_compliance/
I previously worked for a company that manufactured 19 inch equipment racks and 
computer room air conditioners. These racks had to be reviewed for their 
seismic stability to be used in health-care environments in California. OSHPD 
doesn’t want medical equipment or support equipment in a hospital failing 
because it can’t handle the shaking of an earthquake.

The racks and air conditioners my previous customer used UL as their NRTL and 
this was sufficient for Los Angeles. The city has some differences in their 
mechanical code, but that would only affect your equipment if it has cooling 
water connections or such similar features.

Ted Eckert
Microsoft Corporation

The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer or the city of Los Angeles and its suburb of Hollywood. All people 
depicted in this message are fictional; any relation to people living, dead or 
undead are completely coincidental.

From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 11:24 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Which Safety Test Agency Reports are 
accepted by City of LA Test Lab (please provide text of requirement or code)

It was always my impression way back then that the case was if you had no NRTL 
then you had to have a LA investigation for items within its jurisdiction. Of 
course back then the only NRTL was UL as defined by the NEC(?). Several now 
appear.
I could have that backwards.

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 11:10 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Which Safety Test Agency Reports are accepted by 
City of LA Test Lab (please provide text of requirement or code)


Hi Leo:

LA requires NRTL certification.  (I saw no reference to the city test lab which 
LA has had in the past.)
https://www.municode.com/library/ca/los_angeles_county/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT27ELCO_ART83REINETMA

Rich


From: Leo Eisner [mailto:l...@eisnersafety.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 11:22 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Which Safety Test Agency Reports are accepted by City of LA 
Test Lab (please provide text of requirement or code)

Hi All,

I am working with a client that will be installing a pretty big medical device 
in various types of locations across the country and so they want to make sure 
to meet all city and state electrical codes.  From my memory of when I used to 
work at UL many many years ago I remember that City of LA has a test lab and 
they won’t just take anyone’s test reports but they I believe accepted some of 
the NRTL test reports.  Does anyone have any info on this detail and also if 
there is a written requirement or language on this specific issue.  A weblink 
or a reference to a City of LA code or similar would be really great to get too.

Thx much,

Leonard (Leo) Eisner, P.E.
Principal Consultant, Eisner Safety Consultants
Phone: (503) 244-6151
Mobile: (503) 709-8328
Email: l...@eisnersafety.com
Website: 
www.EisnerSafety.com

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/
 can be used for graphics (in 

Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Which Safety Test Agency Reports are accepted by City of LA Test Lab (please provide text of requirement or code)

[Gary McInturff]

It was always my impression way back then that the case was if you had no NRTL 
then you had to have a LA investigation for items within its jurisdiction. Of 
course back then the only NRTL was UL as defined by the NEC(?). Several now 
appear.
I could have that backwards.

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 11:10 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Which Safety Test Agency Reports are accepted by 
City of LA Test Lab (please provide text of requirement or code)


Hi Leo:

LA requires NRTL certification.  (I saw no reference to the city test lab which 
LA has had in the past.)
https://www.municode.com/library/ca/los_angeles_county/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT27ELCO_ART83REINETMA

Rich


From: Leo Eisner [mailto:l...@eisnersafety.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 11:22 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Which Safety Test Agency Reports are accepted by City of LA 
Test Lab (please provide text of requirement or code)

Hi All,

I am working with a client that will be installing a pretty big medical device 
in various types of locations across the country and so they want to make sure 
to meet all city and state electrical codes.  From my memory of when I used to 
work at UL many many years ago I remember that City of LA has a test lab and 
they won’t just take anyone’s test reports but they I believe accepted some of 
the NRTL test reports.  Does anyone have any info on this detail and also if 
there is a written requirement or language on this specific issue.  A weblink 
or a reference to a City of LA code or similar would be really great to get too.

Thx much,

Leonard (Leo) Eisner, P.E.
Principal Consultant, Eisner Safety Consultants
Phone: (503) 244-6151
Mobile: (503) 709-8328
Email: l...@eisnersafety.com
Website: 
www.EisnerSafety.com

-


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Re: [PSES] Which Safety Test Agency Reports are accepted by City of LA Test Lab (please provide text of requirement or code)

[Richard Nute]

 

Hi Leo:

 

LA requires NRTL certification.  (I saw no reference to the city test lab which 
LA has had in the past.)

https://www.municode.com/library/ca/los_angeles_county/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT27ELCO_ART83REINETMA

 

Rich

 

 

From: Leo Eisner [mailto:l...@eisnersafety.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 11:22 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Which Safety Test Agency Reports are accepted by City of LA 
Test Lab (please provide text of requirement or code)

 

Hi All,

 

I am working with a client that will be installing a pretty big medical device 
in various types of locations across the country and so they want to make sure 
to meet all city and state electrical codes.  From my memory of when I used to 
work at UL many many years ago I remember that City of LA has a test lab and 
they won’t just take anyone’s test reports but they I believe accepted some of 
the NRTL test reports.  Does anyone have any info on this detail and also if 
there is a written requirement or language on this specific issue.  A weblink 
or a reference to a City of LA code or similar would be really great to get too.

 

Thx much,

 

Leonard (Leo) Eisner, P.E.
Principal Consultant, Eisner Safety Consultants
Phone: (503) 244-6151
Mobile: (503) 709-8328
Email: l...@eisnersafety.com  
Website: www.EisnerSafety.com  
 




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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Re: [PSES] Public view of this email server?

[dward]

I guess some just do not understand the 1st amendment of the US Constitution.

It says no laws shall be made….  It does not say you can say anything anytime.

 

​

Dennis Ward

This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST 
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or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect.  Thank you.

 

From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 11:42 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Public view of this email server?

 

So public servants can say what they like, but honest citizens can't.  Room for 
improvement.

 

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only

  www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and 
Associates Rayleigh England

 

Sylvae in aeternum manent.

 

From: Ted Eckert [mailto:07cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 4:49 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] Public view of this email server?

 

In the United States, the First Amendment prevents governments from regulating 
speech. However, employment at a specified company is not a constitutionally 
protected right. A private company is permitted to fire you for something you 
say. Many people learn in the United States have learned this the hard way. 
Employment law is normally governed at the state level. In many states, your 
employer can fire you without giving any reason at all. If they don’t like what 
you said, they don’t have to state that as a reason for termination. Employers 
in the U.S. can’t fire you based on race, gender and a few other aspects, but 
speech is generally allowed to be restricted as a condition of employment.

 

Ted Eckert

The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer. 

 

From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 8:03 PM
To: Ted Eckert  >; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: RE: [PSES] Public view of this email server?

 

An employer seeking to restrict  personal communication on the Internet  may 
violate the First Amendment.. 

 

To replace the sesquipedalian disclaimers imposed by corporate lawyers, I 
coined the TLA OOO which has appeared in my sig-tag since time immemorial.

 

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only

  www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and 
Associates Rayleigh England

 

Sylvae in aeternum manent.

 

From: Ted Eckert [mailto:07cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 3:06 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] Public view of this email server?

 

I work in an environment where it is reasonable for me to assume that anything 
I write may be accessed by a plaintiff during the discovery process of some 
future lawsuit. It makes me more careful what I say, but it generally doesn’t 
prevent me from responding to a forum such as this. The disclaimer I use is 
based on guidance given by my current employer and is similar to what has been 
required at past employment when responding publically. I can say what I want 
as long as I indicate that it is a personal response and not necessarily the 
opinion of my employer. Despite the environment, my employer does not prohibit 
open communication on public forums. The employees are encouraged to speak 
responsibly and recognize that they may be seen as representatives of 
Microsoft. 

-


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 >

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott 

Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Public view of this email server?

[Gary McInturff]

Actually the 1st amendment says that congress can’t prohibit speech. It says 
doesn’t address public or businesses restricting speech.

The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or 
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or 
of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition 
the Government for a redress of grievances.


From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 8:03 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Public view of this email server?

An employer seeking to restrict  personal communication on the Internet  may 
violate the First Amendment..

To replace the sesquipedalian disclaimers imposed by corporate lawyers, I 
coined the TLA OOO which has appeared in my sig-tag since time immemorial.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
 J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Sylvae in aeternum manent.

From: Ted Eckert [mailto:07cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org]
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 3:06 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Public view of this email server?

I work in an environment where it is reasonable for me to assume that anything 
I write may be accessed by a plaintiff during the discovery process of some 
future lawsuit. It makes me more careful what I say, but it generally doesn’t 
prevent me from responding to a forum such as this. The disclaimer I use is 
based on guidance given by my current employer and is similar to what has been 
required at past employment when responding publically. I can say what I want 
as long as I indicate that it is a personal response and not necessarily the 
opinion of my employer. Despite the environment, my employer does not prohibit 
open communication on public forums. The employees are encouraged to speak 
responsibly and recognize that they may be seen as representatives of Microsoft.
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/
 can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas >
Mike Cantwell >

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher >
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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online 

Re: [PSES] Public view of this email server?

[Ted Eckert]

Public servants can still be fired for what they say. The same rules of 
employment generally apply to public servants as to private citizens in the 
United States. The difference is between civil law and criminal law. The 
Constitution does not provide you protection under civil law. You can be fired 
or sued for what you say. That is the basis of libel and slander laws and a 
slanderer can’t claim first amendment protection as a defense. Even there, the 
U.S. has fairly strong protections and the plaintiff must clear a high bar to 
win in a libel or slander case. Civil law can only impose a financial penalty 
and civil courts can’t send somebody to prison. The Constitution does not 
provide protection from financial penalties, but it does limit how U.S. 
citizens can be deprived of their liberties through criminal punishment. (Many 
people who have tried to use Constitutional protection claims to defend their 
failure to pay taxes have found out that tax law falls under the financial 
penalty category and not the deprivation of liberty area.)

If a civil servant went on a misogynistic rant daily, it could be a problem for 
their employment. Even if they were only doing so on their private Facebook 
page, the women working at the same government agency could make a reasonable 
claim that working with this person constituted a hostile work environment. The 
employee making the misogynistic comments would not be protected by the 
Constitution.

Workers are free to seek new employment at an employer that they feel better 
meets their requirements as a worker. This doesn’t always happen, and many 
Americans are risk adverse to the point where they will put up with working at 
a bad employer without looking for better options. Other Americans have taken 
advantage of collective bargaining laws to get contractual protections beyond 
what the law allows. In recent years, Americans have soured on unions, but that 
is a choice they make.

There are some protections all employees have. You can’t reveal confidential 
information, trade secrets or similar items and claim “freedom of speech” 
without risk of losing your job. However, political activities are generally 
protected. Your employer can’t fire you for supporting a different political 
candidate than your boss. It may be up to the employee to prove the real reason 
for their termination in a civil suit, but such cases have ended in the 
plaintiff’s favor.

Ted Eckert
The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer. I am not a professional constitutional scholar, although I will admit 
to subscribing and listening to a number of podcasts on constitutional and 
civil law. My coworkers wonder why I can’t be normal and just watch Game of 
Thrones instead like everybody else.

From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 11:42 PM
To: Ted Eckert ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] Public view of this email server?

So public servants can say what they like, but honest citizens can't.  Room for 
improvement.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates 
Rayleigh England

Sylvae in aeternum manent.

From: Ted Eckert [mailto:07cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org]
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 4:49 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Public view of this email server?

In the United States, the First Amendment prevents governments from regulating 
speech. However, employment at a specified company is not a constitutionally 
protected right. A private company is permitted to fire you for something you 
say. Many people learn in the United States have learned this the hard way. 
Employment law is normally governed at the state level. In many states, your 
employer can fire you without giving any reason at all. If they don’t like what 
you said, they don’t have to state that as a reason for termination. Employers 
in the U.S. can’t fire you based on race, gender and a few other aspects, but 
speech is generally allowed to be restricted as a condition of employment.

Ted Eckert
The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer.

From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 8:03 PM
To: Ted Eckert >; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] Public view of this email server?

An employer seeking to restrict  personal communication on the Internet  may 
violate the First Amendment..

To replace the sesquipedalian disclaimers imposed by corporate lawyers, I 
coined the TLA OOO which has appeared in my sig-tag since time immemorial.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M 

Re: [PSES] Which Safety Test Agency Reports are accepted by City of LA Test Lab (please provide text of requirement or code)

[John Allen]

Hi Leo,

If it you're planing on Field Labeling, the City of LA requires the labels be 
applied on site and you must contact the electrical inspector and invite him to 
the inspection.  Other cities in CA are moving in that direction as well.

Best Regards,

John

John Allen | President
Product Safety Consulting, Inc.
Your Outsourced Compliance Department
www.productsafetyinc.com
630-238-0188

On Nov 23, 2016, at 4:35 AM, Kevin Robinson 
> wrote:

Hi Leo,

The City of LA maintains an online list of laboratories that can be viewed here 
http://www.ladbs.org/services/core-services/plan-check-permit/product-approval/electrical-test-lab.

Kevin Robinson

On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 2:21 AM, Leo Eisner 
> wrote:
Hi All,

I am working with a client that will be installing a pretty big medical device 
in various types of locations across the country and so they want to make sure 
to meet all city and state electrical codes.  From my memory of when I used to 
work at UL many many years ago I remember that City of LA has a test lab and 
they won't just take anyone's test reports but they I believe accepted some of 
the NRTL test reports.  Does anyone have any info on this detail and also if 
there is a written requirement or language on this specific issue.  A weblink 
or a reference to a City of LA code or similar would be really great to get too.

Thx much,

Leonard (Leo) Eisner, P.E.
Principal Consultant, Eisner Safety Consultants
Phone: (503) 244-6151
Mobile: (503) 709-8328
Email: l...@eisnersafety.com
Website: www.EisnerSafety.com


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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
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Attachments are 

Re: [PSES] Which Safety Test Agency Reports are accepted by City of LA Test Lab (please provide text of requirement or code)

[Kevin Robinson]

Hi Leo,

The City of LA maintains an online list of laboratories that can be viewed
here
http://www.ladbs.org/services/core-services/plan-check-permit/product-approval/electrical-test-lab
.

Kevin Robinson

On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 2:21 AM, Leo Eisner  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I am working with a client that will be installing a pretty big medical
> device in various types of locations across the country and so they want to
> make sure to meet all city and state electrical codes.  From my memory of
> when I used to work at UL many many years ago I remember that City of LA
> has a test lab and they won’t just take anyone’s test reports but they
> I believe accepted some of the NRTL test reports.  Does anyone have any
> info on this detail and also if there is a written requirement or language
> on this specific issue.  A weblink or a reference to a City of LA code or
> similar would be really great to get too.
>
> Thx much,
>
> Leonard (Leo) Eisner, P.E.
> Principal Consultant, Eisner Safety Consultants
> Phone: (503) 244-6151
> Mobile: (503) 709-8328
> Email: l...@eisnersafety.com 
> Website: www.EisnerSafety.com 
>
>
> *** Internet E-mail Confidentiality Disclaimer ***
> This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If
> you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate,
> distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If
> you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding
> the message and its attachments to the sender.
>
> Eisner Safety Consultants do not accept liability for any
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> any attachments that arise as a result of e-mail transmission.
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> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
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For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

[PSES] Which Safety Test Agency Reports are accepted by City of LA Test Lab (please provide text of requirement or code)

[Leo Eisner]

Hi All,

I am working with a client that will be installing a pretty big medical device 
in various types of locations across the country and so they want to make sure 
to meet all city and state electrical codes.  From my memory of when I used to 
work at UL many many years ago I remember that City of LA has a test lab and 
they won’t just take anyone’s test reports but they I believe accepted some of 
the NRTL test reports.  Does anyone have any info on this detail and also if 
there is a written requirement or language on this specific issue.  A weblink 
or a reference to a City of LA code or similar would be really great to get too.

Thx much,

Leonard (Leo) Eisner, P.E.
Principal Consultant, Eisner Safety Consultants
Phone: (503) 244-6151
Mobile: (503) 709-8328
Email: l...@eisnersafety.com
Website: www.EisnerSafety.com
 

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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: