date:20221101

Re: [PSES] EU harmonised standard of EN 62368-1 Ed3 : 2020 for General Product Safety Directive

2022-11-01 Thread Scott Xe

Dear Mike,

Appreciate your spotting out the essential part that was over-looked.  As
explained in above reply, it seems a full version of EN 62368-1 : 2020 is
still applied.  Did EU remove the transitional period for any
updates/amendments recently?  From now on, all listed standards take effect
immediately.

Regarding the development of EN 62368-1, the 3rd edition likely skips in
LVD and RED.  We are awaiting further detail about the 4th edition in 2023.

Thanks and regards,

Scott

On Wed, 2 Nov 2022 at 00:56, MIKE SHERMAN  wrote:

> Scott --
>
> Go to page 63 of the OJ from August 16
>
> https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:213:FULL=EN
> and look at item 21
> “However, the publication of those references should be limited to the
> clauses 3.3.19 ‘Sound exposure’ and 10.6 ‘Safeguard against acoustic energy
> sources’, given that the purpose of Commission Decision 2009/490/EC is
> limited to ensuring that exposure to sound from personal music players does
> not pose a risk to hearing.”
> So it looks like this is a very limited adoption of only PART of the third
> edition for the sole purpose of personal music players.
>
> Here also is some information about 62368-1 that I gleaned from the IEEE
> ISPCE Symposium in San Diego in September:
> -2nd edition: has a "dow" Date of Withdrawal of January 2023; reportedly
> there is a CENELC vote going on right now to extend that (18 months?) so it
> can continue to be valid as we wait for the 4th edition
> -3rd edition is still dead [as a harmonized standard for LVD]
> -4th edition is being voted on, perhaps in January 2023, and so may soon
> be approved simultaneously by both IEC and CENELEC. Reportedly the
> committee has been working closely with the EU to avoid the problems that
> sunk the 3rd edition as a viable harmonized EN standard.
>
> Mike Sherman
> Sherman PSC LLC
>
> On 11/01/2022 9:45 AM Scott Xe  wrote:
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> On 16 Aug 2022, OJEU listed EN 62368-1 2020 without a deadline of an
> enforcement date.  Normally it will have a transitional period of 18 or 24
> months.  Does it mean to take effect immediately without a transitional
> period from EN 62368-1 Ed2 : 2014 to EN 62368-1 Ed 3 : 2020?
>
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Scott
> -
> 
>
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Re: [PSES] EU harmonised standard of EN 62368-1 Ed3 : 2020 for General Product Safety Directive

2022-11-01 Thread Scott Xe

Hi Charlie,

You are right the edition 2 has not been listed in GPSD.  The 2022/1401
decision amending 2019/1698 decision states that row 66 and 67 are replaced
by EN IEC 62368-1 : 2020 and EN IEC 62368-1 : 2020/A11 : 2020.  The row 66
and 67 of 2019/1698 are referenced to EN 60065 and 60950-1.  Thus they are
repealed.

I might over interpreted the decision to make the product in compliance
with full EN 62368-1 Ed3 : 2020 standard.  Thanks for your guidance!  At
least, it may meet EN 60065 or 60950-1 depending on product type plus
clauses 3.3.19 ‘Sound exposure’ and 10.6 ‘Safeguard against acoustic energy
sources’.  Since both EN 60065 and 60950-1 have been replaced with EN
62368-1 : 2020, should the conformity test use a full version of EN 62368-1
: 2020 instead of 2 clauses only?

Cheers!

Scott

On Wed, 2 Nov 2022 at 00:39, Charlie Blackham 
wrote:

> Scott
>
>
>
> I’m fairly certain that EN 62368-1:2014 was never listed under the GPSD –
> only the LVD – 60065 and 60950 remained listed.
>
>
>
> The listing of the 2020 version of 62368-1 is accompanied by the following
> “whereas”:
>
>
> By letter M/452 of 28 September 2009, the Commission made a request to the
> European Committee for Electrotechnical Standardization (‘Cenelec’) to draw
> up European standards for personal music players. On the basis of this
> request, Cenelec adopted standard EN IEC 62368-1:2020 on ‘Audio/video,
> information and communication technology equipment – Part 1: Safety
> requirements’ and, further to that, the amendment EN IEC
> 62368-1:2020/A11:2020. EN IEC 62368-1:2020 is proposed with its amendment
> A11:2020, which complies with the general safety requirement set out in
> Directive 2001/95/EC. Its reference should be published in the *Official
> Journal of the European Union* replacing the references EN 60065:2002
> ‘Audio, video and similar electronic apparatus – Safety requirements’ and
> EN 60950-1:2006 ‘Information technology equipment – Safety -- Part 1:
> General requirements’. However, the publication of those references should
> be limited to the clauses 3.3.19 ‘Sound exposure’ and 10.6 ‘Safeguard
> against acoustic energy sources’, given that the purpose of Commission
> Decision 2009/490/EC is limited to ensuring that exposure to sound from
> personal music players does not pose a risk to hearing.
>
>
>
> And the listing states
>
> *Notice: this publication concerns only clauses 3.3.19 “Sound exposure”
> and 10.6 “Safeguard against acoustic energy sources” of EN IEC
> 62368-1:2020/A11:2020.*
>
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
> *Charlie Blackham*
>
> *Sulis Consultants Ltd*
>
> *Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317*
>
> *Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/  *
>
> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247
>
>
>
> *From:* Scott Xe 
> *Sent:* 01 November 2022 14:45
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* [PSES] EU harmonised standard of EN 62368-1 Ed3 : 2020 for
> General Product Safety Directive
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> On 16 Aug 2022, OJEU listed EN 62368-1 2020 without a deadline of an
> enforcement date.  Normally it will have a transitional period of 18 or 24
> months.  Does it mean to take effect immediately without a transitional
> period from EN 62368-1 Ed2 : 2014 to EN 62368-1 Ed 3 : 2020?
>
>
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Scott
>
> -
> 
>
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[PSES] job openings (Kansas City and Raleigh NC area)

2022-11-01 Thread Kealey, Doug

Hi All,

Garmin has an opportunity for a Sr. Compliance Engineer with 5 years' 
experience.  At our HQ in the Kansas City suburbs, and at our North Carolina 
campus, we have a product regulatory compliance position that will embed you 
with some product development teams.  You will lead the way to on-time 
approvals using our world-class compliance process.  More details at 
https://careers.garmin.com/careers-home/jobs/9473?lang=en-us  You've never been 
to Kansas City?  Check out www.kc.org/work

Best regards,
Doug




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Re: [PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC

2022-11-01 Thread Don Gies

Group,

The requirement for surge protection in NFPA 70 (2023): 670.6 goes back to NFPA 
79, “Electrical Standard for Industrial Machinery.”


The scope NEC 70 (2023): 670  refers to NFPA 79, as follows:

Article 670 Industrial Machinery
670.1 Scope.
This article covers the nameplate data for, overvoltage protection for, and the 
size and overcurrent protection of supply conductors to industrial machinery.
Informational Note No. 1:
See NFPA 79, Electrical Standard for Industrial Machinery, for further 
information.
Informational Note No. 2:
See 
110.26
 for information on the workspace requirements for equipment containing supply 
conductor terminals.
Informational Note No. 3:
See NFPA 79, Electrical Standard for Industrial Machinery, for information on 
the workspace requirements for machine power and control equipment.
670.6 reads as follows (2023 NEC):
670.6 Overvoltage Protection.
Industrial machinery with safety circuits shall have overvoltage protection.

Under NFPA 79:  7.8.1, the requirement for surge protection is as follows:

7.8.1*
 Surge-Protective Devices (SPDs).
Industrial machinery with safety circuits not effectively protected from the 
effects of overvoltages due to lightning or switching surges shall have surge 
protection installed.

Exception:
SPDs shall not be required where the risks associated with the effects of 
overvoltages are mitigated such that the safety performance determined by a 
risk assessment is met.
Enhanced Content
The term surge-protective devices (SPDs) has replaced the previously used terms 
overvoltage protection device, lightning overvoltage suppression, and surge 
switching overvoltage suppression in 7.8.1, 
7.8.2,
 and 
7.8.3.
 See the definition of surge-protective device (SPD) in 
3.3.104.
 The 2018 edition revised the existing requirement in 7.8.1 to require an 
appropriate SPD for protection of industrial machinery with safety interlock 
circuits to correlate with Section 670.6 of NFPA 
70.


Best regards,
Don Gies




Internal
From: Richard Nute 
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2022 4:03 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC


[External email: Use caution with links and attachments]





The NEC 670.6 quote triggers some questions:

I wonder why industrial machinery with a safety interlock is required to have 
surge protection as opposed to machinery that does not have an interlock?

Is an “on-off” or “run-stop” control considered a “safety interlock”?

Is the “surge” a higher-than-normal power-line voltage or is it an impulse from 
switching or lightning?

Does “effectively protected” mean passing the dielectric (hi-pot) test?

Richard Nute
Bend, Oregon, USA
(Several inches accumulation of snow this morning, but above freezing.)


From: Doug Powell mailto:doug...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2022 11:28 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC

From the 2020 Edition, emphasis is mine.

"670.6 Surge Protection. Industrial machinery with safety interlock control 
devices not effectively protected from voltage surges on the incoming supply 
circuit shall have surge protection installed."

It does not say where this protection needs to be applied, so I assume it can 
be within the machine or somewhere in machine supply. Also, does the product 
you are inquiring about fall under the definition of Industrial Machinery, NFPA 
79?

-Doug

Douglas E Powell
Laporte, Colorado USA
doug...@gmail.com
LinkedIn

(UTC -06:00) Mountain Time (US-MDT)



On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 11:55 AM Brian Kunde 
mailto:bkundew...@gmail.com>> wrote:
It just came to my attention that section 670.6 of the US National Electric 
Code 2017 requires a listed Surge Protection Device (SPD) to be on any 
Industrial Machine that has an Interlock, or I assume any kind of safety 
function.  Is this true? The only information I can find on the internet is 
from the companies that make and sell the SPDs which can often be very one 
sided.  Is there more to this story that

Re: [PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC

2022-11-01 Thread Bill Owsley

I am a bit fuzzy on the details, but spd internal to machine has to meet a 
certain requirement, while if mounted outside, it met another requirement.The 
outside one was "easier".So a surge box was installed outside of machine. 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 16:02, Richard Nute wrote:   
#yiv1165865509 #yiv1165865509 -- _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv1165865509 
#yiv1165865509 p.yiv1165865509MsoNormal, #yiv1165865509 
li.yiv1165865509MsoNormal, #yiv1165865509 div.yiv1165865509MsoNormal 
{margin:0in;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv1165865509 a:link, 
#yiv1165865509 span.yiv1165865509MsoHyperlink 
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1165865509 
span.yiv1165865509EmailStyle19 {font-family:New 
serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv1165865509 .yiv1165865509MsoChpDefault 
{font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;} _filtered {}#yiv1165865509 
div.yiv1165865509WordSection1 {}#yiv1165865509 
 

The NEC 670.6 quote triggers some questions:

  

I wonder why industrial machinery with a safety interlock is required to have 
surge protection as opposed to machinery that does not have an interlock?

  

Is an “on-off” or “run-stop” control considered a “safety interlock”?

  

Is the “surge” a higher-than-normal power-line voltage or is it an impulse from 
switching or lightning?

  

Does “effectively protected” mean passing the dielectric (hi-pot) test?

  

Richard Nute

Bend, Oregon, USA

(Several inches accumulation of snow this morning, but above freezing.)

  

  

From: Doug Powell  
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2022 11:28 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC

  

>From the 2020 Edition, emphasis is mine.

  


"670.6 Surge Protection. Industrial machinery with safety interlock control 
devices not effectively protected from voltage surges on the incoming supply 
circuit shall have surge protection installed."


  

It does not say where this protection needs to be applied, so I assume it can 
be within the machine or somewhere in machine supply. Also, does the product 
you are inquiring about fall under the definition of Industrial Machinery, NFPA 
79? 

  

-Doug

  

Douglas E Powell

Laporte, Colorado USA

doug...@gmail.com

LinkedIn

  

(UTC -06:00) Mountain Time (US-MDT)

  

  

  

On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 11:55 AM Brian Kunde  wrote:


It just came to my attention that section 670.6 of the US National Electric 
Code 2017 requires a listed Surge Protection Device (SPD) to be on any 
Industrial Machine that has an Interlock, or I assume any kind of safety 
function.  Is this true? The only information I can find on the internet is 
from the companies that make and sell the SPDs which can often be very one 
sided.  Is there more to this story that I am missing?

  

Does the Surge Protection have to be listed? Are there specifications for the 
SPD? Is there a Surge Immunity Test that be used to validate and verify whether 
an additional SPD is required or not?  

  

Thanks,

The Other Brian

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Re: [PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC

2022-11-01 Thread Richard Nute

 

The NEC 670.6 quote triggers some questions:

 

I wonder why industrial machinery with a safety interlock is required to have 
surge protection as opposed to machinery that does not have an interlock?

 

Is an “on-off” or “run-stop” control considered a “safety interlock”?

 

Is the “surge” a higher-than-normal power-line voltage or is it an impulse from 
switching or lightning?

 

Does “effectively protected” mean passing the dielectric (hi-pot) test?

 

Richard Nute

Bend, Oregon, USA

(Several inches accumulation of snow this morning, but above freezing.)

 

 

From: Doug Powell  
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2022 11:28 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC

 

>From the 2020 Edition, emphasis is mine.

 

"670.6 Surge Protection. Industrial machinery with safety interlock control 
devices not effectively protected from voltage surges on the incoming supply 
circuit shall have surge protection installed."

 

It does not say where this protection needs to be applied, so I assume it can 
be within the machine or somewhere in machine supply. Also, does the product 
you are inquiring about fall under the definition of Industrial Machinery, NFPA 
79? 

 

-Doug

 

Douglas E Powell

Laporte, Colorado USA

  doug...@gmail.com

  LinkedIn

 

(UTC -06:00) Mountain Time (US-MDT)

 

 

 

On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 11:55 AM Brian Kunde mailto:bkundew...@gmail.com> > wrote:

It just came to my attention that section 670.6 of the US National Electric 
Code 2017 requires a listed Surge Protection Device (SPD) to be on any 
Industrial Machine that has an Interlock, or I assume any kind of safety 
function.  Is this true? The only information I can find on the internet is 
from the companies that make and sell the SPDs which can often be very one 
sided.  Is there more to this story that I am missing?

 

Does the Surge Protection have to be listed? Are there specifications for the 
SPD? Is there a Surge Immunity Test that be used to validate and verify whether 
an additional SPD is required or not?  

 

Thanks,

The Other Brian


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Re: [PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC

2022-11-01 Thread Doug Powell

>From the 2020 Edition, emphasis is mine.

"670.6 Surge Protection. Industrial machinery with safety interlock control
devices *not effectively protected from voltage surges on the incoming
supply circuit* shall have surge protection installed."


It does not say where this protection needs to be applied, so I assume it
can be within the machine or somewhere in machine supply. Also, does the
product you are inquiring about fall under the definition of *Industrial
Machinery*, NFPA 79?

-Doug

Douglas E Powell
Laporte, Colorado USA
doug...@gmail.com
LinkedIn 

(UTC -06:00) Mountain Time (US-MDT)



On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 11:55 AM Brian Kunde  wrote:

> It just came to my attention that section 670.6 of the US National
> Electric Code 2017 requires a listed Surge Protection Device (SPD) to be on
> any Industrial Machine that has an Interlock, or I assume any kind of
> safety function.  Is this true? The only information I can find on the
> internet is from the companies that make and sell the SPDs which can often
> be very one sided.  Is there more to this story that I am missing?
>
> Does the Surge Protection have to be listed? Are there specifications for
> the SPD? Is there a Surge Immunity Test that be used to validate and
> verify whether an additional SPD is required or not?
>
> Thanks,
> The Other Brian
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
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> emc-p...@ieee.org
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[PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC

2022-11-01 Thread Brian Kunde

It just came to my attention that section 670.6 of the US National Electric
Code 2017 requires a listed Surge Protection Device (SPD) to be on any
Industrial Machine that has an Interlock, or I assume any kind of safety
function.  Is this true? The only information I can find on the internet is
from the companies that make and sell the SPDs which can often be very one
sided.  Is there more to this story that I am missing?

Does the Surge Protection have to be listed? Are there specifications for
the SPD? Is there a Surge Immunity Test that be used to validate and
verify whether an additional SPD is required or not?

Thanks,
The Other Brian

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Re: [PSES] EU harmonised standard of EN 62368-1 Ed3 : 2020 for General Product Safety Directive

2022-11-01 Thread MIKE SHERMAN

Scott --

Go to page 63 of the OJ from August 16
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:213:FULL=EN
and look at item 21
“However, the publication of those references should be limited to the clauses 
3.3.19 ‘Sound exposure’ and 10.6 ‘Safeguard against acoustic energy sources’, 
given that the purpose of Commission Decision 2009/490/EC is limited to 
ensuring that exposure to sound from personal music players does not pose a 
risk to hearing.”
So it looks like this is a very limited adoption of only PART of the third 
edition for the sole purpose of personal music players.

Here also is some information about 62368-1 that I gleaned from the IEEE ISPCE 
Symposium in San Diego in September:
-2nd edition: has a "dow" Date of Withdrawal of January 2023; reportedly there 
is a CENELC vote going on right now to extend that (18 months?) so it can 
continue to be valid as we wait for the 4th edition
-3rd edition is still dead [as a harmonized standard for LVD]
-4th edition is being voted on, perhaps in January 2023, and so may soon be 
approved simultaneously by both IEC and CENELEC. Reportedly the committee has 
been working closely with the EU to avoid the problems that sunk the 3rd 
edition as a viable harmonized EN standard.

Mike Sherman
Sherman PSC LLC

> On 11/01/2022 9:45 AM Scott Xe  wrote:
> 
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> On 16 Aug 2022, OJEU listed EN 62368-1 2020 without a deadline of an 
> enforcement date.  Normally it will have a transitional period of 18 or 24 
> months.  Does it mean to take effect immediately without a transitional 
> period from EN 62368-1 Ed2 : 2014 to EN 62368-1 Ed 3 : 2020?
> 
> 
> Thanks and regards,
> 
> Scott
> 
> -
> 
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org >
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Re: [PSES] EU harmonised standard of EN 62368-1 Ed3 : 2020 for General Product Safety Directive

2022-11-01 Thread Charlie Blackham

Scott

I’m fairly certain that EN 62368-1:2014 was never listed under the GPSD – only 
the LVD – 60065 and 60950 remained listed.

The listing of the 2020 version of 62368-1 is accompanied by the following 
“whereas”:

By letter M/452 of 28 September 2009, the Commission made a request to the 
European Committee for Electrotechnical Standardization (‘Cenelec’) to draw up 
European standards for personal music players. On the basis of this request, 
Cenelec adopted standard EN IEC 62368-1:2020 on ‘Audio/video, information and 
communication technology equipment – Part 1: Safety requirements’ and, further 
to that, the amendment EN IEC 62368-1:2020/A11:2020. EN IEC 62368-1:2020 is 
proposed with its amendment A11:2020, which complies with the general safety 
requirement set out in Directive 2001/95/EC. Its reference should be published 
in the Official Journal of the European Union replacing the references EN 
60065:2002 ‘Audio, video and similar electronic apparatus – Safety 
requirements’ and EN 60950-1:2006 ‘Information technology equipment – Safety -- 
Part 1: General requirements’. However, the publication of those references 
should be limited to the clauses 3.3.19 ‘Sound exposure’ and 10.6 ‘Safeguard 
against acoustic energy sources’, given that the purpose of Commission Decision 
2009/490/EC is limited to ensuring that exposure to sound from personal music 
players does not pose a risk to hearing.

And the listing states
Notice: this publication concerns only clauses 3.3.19 “Sound exposure” and 10.6 
“Safeguard against acoustic energy sources” of EN IEC 62368-1:2020/A11:2020.

Best regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Scott Xe 
Sent: 01 November 2022 14:45
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EU harmonised standard of EN 62368-1 Ed3 : 2020 for General 
Product Safety Directive

Dear All,

On 16 Aug 2022, OJEU listed EN 62368-1 2020 without a deadline of an 
enforcement date.  Normally it will have a transitional period of 18 or 24 
months.  Does it mean to take effect immediately without a transitional period 
from EN 62368-1 Ed2 : 2014 to EN 62368-1 Ed 3 : 2020?



Thanks and regards,

Scott
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[PSES] EU harmonised standard of EN 62368-1 Ed3 : 2020 for General Product Safety Directive

2022-11-01 Thread Scott Xe

Dear All,

On 16 Aug 2022, OJEU listed EN 62368-1 2020 without a deadline of an
enforcement date.  Normally it will have a transitional period of 18 or 24
months.  Does it mean to take effect immediately without a transitional
period from EN 62368-1 Ed2 : 2014 to EN 62368-1 Ed 3 : 2020?


Thanks and regards,

Scott

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Re: [PSES] EU harmonised standard of EN 62368-1 Ed3 : 2020 for General Product Safety Directive

Re: [PSES] EU harmonised standard of EN 62368-1 Ed3 : 2020 for General Product Safety Directive

[PSES] job openings (Kansas City and Raleigh NC area)

Re: [PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC

Re: [PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC

Re: [PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC

Re: [PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC

[PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC

Re: [PSES] EU harmonised standard of EN 62368-1 Ed3 : 2020 for General Product Safety Directive

Re: [PSES] EU harmonised standard of EN 62368-1 Ed3 : 2020 for General Product Safety Directive

[PSES] EU harmonised standard of EN 62368-1 Ed3 : 2020 for General Product Safety Directive

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