Re: [PSES] EU Blue Guide

[Brian O'Connell]

Loads on Slackware box using Pale Moon browser. Is a link to a link, so 
security settings for some browsers may consider it an evil redirection by 
Cardassian space aliens.  Not that we care, but also loads on this windoze box.

https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/18027/attachments/1/translations/en/renditions/native

Silly javascript jockeys.

Brian



From: Ken Wyatt [mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 3:42 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU Blue Guide

Works for me using a Mac, Safari, and Preview to open it.

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! | Web Site 
| Blog
The EMC Blog (EDN)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn

On Aug 16, 2017, at 4:33 PM, John Woodgate 
> wrote:

Works for me, opening with NitroPro, so it’s not one of those that only opens 
with Acrobat.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates 
Rayleigh England

Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).

From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com]
Sent: 16 August 2017 23:26
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EU Blue Guide

Is anyone else having difficulty downloading a working copy of the Blue Guide 
at http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/18027/

I've tried both formats to no avail.

thanks, Doug

--

Douglas E Powell

doug...@gmail.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01

-

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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] EU Blue Guide

[Ted Eckert]

The Blue Guide opens properly in Microsoft Edge as well.

Ted Eckert
Microsoft Corporation

The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer. (Although my employer is likely happy to let me promote Microsoft 
Edge.)

From: Doug Smith [mailto:d...@emcesd.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 4:11 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU Blue Guide

Works in Google Chrome so that makes it platform independent! 
Win/Mac/ChromeBook/etc.

I think Chrome is the best way to view pdf files. Great for 
presentations/classes as well. Less of a security risk than Adobe and it does 
not take over your computer like Adobe sometimes does.

Doug [http://emcesd.com/graphics/SYMBOL.JPG]

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 16:41:47 -0600, Ken Wyatt wrote:

Works for me using a Mac, Safari, and Preview to open it.

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed!Feel freeto call or email with any 
questionsrelated to EMC or EMI troubleshooting -at no obligation. I'm always 
happy tohelp!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!|Web 
Site|Blog
The EMC Blog 
(EDN)
Subscribe to 
Newsletter
Connect with me on 
LinkedIn

On Aug 16, 2017, at 4:33 PM, John Woodgate 
> wrote:

Works for me, opening with NitroPro, so it’s not one of those that only opens 
with Acrobat.
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.ukJ
 M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England
Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).
From:Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com]
Sent:16 August 2017 23:26
To:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject:[PSES] EU Blue Guide
Is anyone else having difficulty downloading a working copy of the Blue Guide 
athttp://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/18027/
I've tried both formats to no avail.
thanks, Doug
--
Douglas E Powell

doug...@gmail.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01
-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web 

Re: [PSES] EU Blue Guide

[Doug Smith]

Works in Google Chrome so that makes it platform independent! 
Win/Mac/ChromeBook/etc.

I think Chrome is the best way to view pdf files. Great for 
presentations/classes as well. Less of a security risk than Adobe and it does 
not take over your computer like Adobe sometimes does.

Doug






On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 16:41:47 -0600, Ken Wyatt  wrote:

Works for me using a Mac, Safari, and Preview to open it.


Ken



___



I'm here to help you succeed!Feel freeto call or email with any 
questionsrelated to EMC or EMI troubleshooting -at no obligation. I'm always 
happy tohelp!


Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC

56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863


Phone: (719) 310-5418


Email Me!|Web Site|Blog

The EMC Blog (EDN)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn






On Aug 16, 2017, at 4:33 PM, John Woodgate jmw1...@btinternet.com wrote:




Works for me, opening with NitroPro, so it’s not one of those that only opens 
with Acrobat.



With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only

www.jmwa.demon.co.ukJ M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England



Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).



From:Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com]
Sent:16 August 2017 23:26
To:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject:[PSES] EU Blue Guide





Is anyone else having difficulty downloading a working copy of the Blue Guide 
athttp://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/18027/







I've tried both formats to no avail.







thanks, Doug






--









Douglas E Powell

doug...@gmail.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01






-


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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site 
athttp://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/can be used for graphics (in well-used 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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For 

Re: [PSES] EU Blue Guide

[Ken Wyatt]

Works for me using a Mac, Safari, and Preview to open it.

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Aug 16, 2017, at 4:33 PM, John Woodgate  wrote:
> 
> Works for me, opening with NitroPro, so it’s not one of those that only opens 
> with Acrobat.
>  
> With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk  J M Woodgate and 
> Associates Rayleigh England
>  
> Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).
>  
> From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: 16 August 2017 23:26
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] EU Blue Guide
>  
> Is anyone else having difficulty downloading a working copy of the Blue Guide 
> at http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/18027/ 
>  
>  
> I've tried both formats to no avail.
>  
> thanks, Doug
>  
> -- 
>  
> Douglas E Powell
> 
> doug...@gmail.com 
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas >
> Mike Cantwell > 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher >
> David Heald > 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas >
> Mike Cantwell >
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher >
> David Heald >
> 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 

Re: [PSES] EU Blue Guide

[John Woodgate]

Works for me, opening with NitroPro, so it’s not one of those that only opens 
with Acrobat.
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
  www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and 
Associates Rayleigh England
 
Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).
 
From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 16 August 2017 23:26
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EU Blue Guide
 
Is anyone else having difficulty downloading a working copy of the Blue Guide 
at http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/18027/ 
 
I've tried both formats to no avail.
 
thanks, Doug
 
-- 
 
Douglas E Powell

doug...@gmail.com  
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01
-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 >
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) 
 
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas  >
Mike Cantwell  > 
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher  >
David Heald  > 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

[PSES] EU Blue Guide

[Doug Powell]

Is anyone else having difficulty downloading a working copy of the Blue
Guide at http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/18027/

I've tried both formats to no avail.

thanks, Doug

-- 

Douglas E Powell

doug...@gmail.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] CE Mark

[Scott Xe]

Dear All,

Appreciate your valuable comments!  It clears my mind that CE mark does not 
indicate the legal use of the product in all member countries.  Thanks!

It sounds a silly question and knew clearly, but not!  For another example, 
recently, we had meetings with accredited laboratory and suppliers on the 
safety compliance of cord sets and extension cords.  Although it is clear in 
LVD guideline of last version and current version that those products must 
comply with LVD, they still believe complying with SI 1994 for UK market is 
sufficient.

Thanks and regards,

Scott




On 16/8/2017, 2:20 AM, "Pete Perkins" <0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> 
wrote:

Charlie,

Thanx for your remarks (and those of John W, too) clarifying details.  

I do remember, however, that the EU and the UK started on a 10 year 
Voltage harmonization project moving toward 230V at 1 V change per year.  The 
EU completed the project but the Brits seemed to fall apart after a year or two 
of reducing the Voltage.  Not sure if that was ever sorted out properly or if 
the tolerance was adjusted to make it seem to work.  

I still recommend to manufacturers to rate their universal products 
100/120/240V to cover everything.  Testing to 264 (240+10%) always gives 
heartburn to the designers tho.  

My earlier remarks were given knowing the latitude given by 'modern' 
standards such as 60950 and 61010  which do allow for National Differences 
(including plugs, etc).  Many other standards are still way behind the times 
and are not developed is this way.  This is a nightmare for manufacturers and 
test houses and will remain so until long after many of us care.  

Anyway all of us OF's (Old Fellows, in polite company) like to 
reminisce.  

:>) br,  Pete

Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
PO Box 23427
Tigard, ORe  97281-3427

503/452-1201

p.perk...@ieee.org

-Original Message-
From: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:20 AM
To: Pete Perkins ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] CE Mark

Pete 

Thanks for some clarification 

I'd missed the initial parts about plugs - article 10(10) cited in the OP 
is solely related to the Radio Spectrum and nothing to do with plugs, or safety 
under article 3.1(a).

Whilst the UK might be 240V and the EU 220V, they are actually harmonised 
as "230 V (-6% / +10%)" 

CE marking is a "minimal" requirement and items such as the UK "Statutory 
Instrument 1768:1994 - The Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994" 
may still be applied on a national basis - and these requirements typically 
appear in Special National Conditions in Harmonised Standards such as EN 
60950-1 - in fact EN 60950-1 makes reference to numerous national requirements 
for plugs and/or cord sets

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

-Original Message-
From: Pete Perkins [mailto:0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 17:57
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

Scott, John et al,

My take on Scott's question is one that is being asked more routinely 
these days as the IoT spreads to many more product types.  

Within the EU there are two principle operating zones: UK at 240V and 
the rest of the EU at 220V.  Attachment plugs and sockets are unique between 
these two so the power cord and plug and associated electrical are normally 
customized for each market (not as much an issue for electronic power 
supplies).  Additionally, the inclusion of an Inet connexion complicates the 
certification as the RED is now invoked.  IT is clear that the usual safety 
requirements/standards for a lot of equipment have not yet fully harmonized 
across these differences and the manufacturer falls into the dilemma Scott 
references; products with a UK plug cannot be used in Euro socket countries nor 
vice-versa.  There may be other restrictive issues for other products, e.g. 
motor driven appliances.  In the end most manufacturers work to design a single 
product and adapt it to each market area.  This has been straightforward for 
electronic products for many years as the standards have worked to provide for 
these differences in connexion, etc within the standards.  This seems more 
difficult moving ahead as the standards have not anticipated these changes.  
Scott seems to be referring to something like a remote power tap with 
IoT that will require UK plugs (with their unique certification requirements) 
or Euro plugs (with their own certification 

Re: [PSES] CE Mark

[Scott Xe]

Hi Charlie,

Thanks for your confirmation!

Regards,

Scott



On 16/8/2017, 12:31 AM, "Charlie Blackham"  wrote:

Scott

Yes, it's a requirement in the RED - article 10 states:

2.Manufacturers shall ensure that radio equipment shall be so constructed 
that it can be operated in at least one Member State without infringing 
applicable requirements on the use of radio spectrum.


Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 16:40
To: Charlie Blackham ; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

Hi Charlie,

“The product should be CE marked to the RED - a product may be CE marked to 
the RED provided that it can be used in at least one member state”

It is a requirement of RED, not CE Mark?

Thanks and regards,

Scott



On 15/8/2017, 11:00 PM, "Charlie Blackham"  
wrote:

Scott

The product should be CE marked to the RED - a product may be CE marked 
to the RED provided that it can be used in at least one member state
The information to the user should be provided on the packaging as 
detailed below
The "alert mark", which is (!), as used under the R Directive 
should NOT be placed after the CE mark as this is not part of the RED

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 15:51
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

If a product is restricted (due to restrictions on putting into service 
in geographical area) to be used in some countries, there is a contradiction to 
the CE Mark on the product that allows to be free flow between countries.  
Doesn’t the free movement mean the allowed use in the countries?

Regards,

Scott




On 15/8/2017, 10:13 PM, "John Woodgate"  wrote:

What do you mean by 'below restriction'? There are detailed rules 
in the Regulation about products that are only allowed to be used in some 
countries. But the CE mark must be affixed anyway.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it 
(them?).

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 14:49
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] CE Mark

The CE Mark is a conformity scheme that allows for the free flow of 
products between countries in the European Economic Area (EEA).  If a product 
has below restriction in RED in some member countries, can the product be 
affixed a CE Mark?

Same as a UK plug fitted, the product should be used in UK or 
Ireland only.  Is a CE Mark required to be affixed on the product?

Thanks and regards,

Scott





On 26/7/2017, 3:22 PM, "Michael Loerzer" 
 wrote:

Hi,

the Commission has published the 

COMMISSION IMPLEMENTING REGULATION (EU) 2017/1354 of 20 July 
2017 specifying
how to present the information provided for in Article 10(10) 
of Directive
2014/53/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32017R1354
=DE

Article 3

This Regulation shall enter into force on the twentieth day 
following that
of its publication in the Official Journal of the European 
Union, and it
shall apply as of 9 August 2018.

Radio equipment, which is placed on the market after 8 August 
2017 and is in
conformity with this Regulation, shall be deemed to be in 
conformity with
Article 10(10) of Directive 2014/53/EU.

An EU