date:20170918

Re: [PSES] CEC NPRMs for lo-pwr mode and PF

2017-09-18 Thread Bill Owsley

The DOE provides the bark as the tail wags.

  From: Brian O'Connell 
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
 Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 8:19 PM
 Subject: [PSES] CEC NPRMs for lo-pwr mode and PF

Industry and stake-holder responses to the California Energy Commision's NPRM 
for low-power mode and power factor. Some of these comments are entertaining, 
and some are interesting.
http://docketpublic.energy.ca.gov/PublicDocuments/Forms/AllItems.aspx?RootFolder=%2fPublicDocuments%2f17-AAER-12=0x012000854EBC55F6E2AC47926325FA751AA84F

And appears the CEC will do efficiency stuff and UL1741SA stuff for solar 
inverters:
http://docketpublic.energy.ca.gov/PublicDocuments/Forms/AllItems.aspx?RootFolder=%2fPublicDocuments%2f17-AAER-13=0x012000854EBC55F6E2AC47926325FA751AA84F

The CEC has become, for both North America and Europe, the tail that wags the 
dog. Consider yourself advised. Woof.

Brian

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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

[PSES] CEC NPRMs for lo-pwr mode and PF

2017-09-18 Thread Brian O'Connell

Industry and stake-holder responses to the California Energy Commision's NPRM 
for low-power mode and power factor. Some of these comments are entertaining, 
and some are interesting.
http://docketpublic.energy.ca.gov/PublicDocuments/Forms/AllItems.aspx?RootFolder=%2fPublicDocuments%2f17-AAER-12=0x012000854EBC55F6E2AC47926325FA751AA84F

And appears the CEC will do efficiency stuff and UL1741SA stuff for solar 
inverters:
http://docketpublic.energy.ca.gov/PublicDocuments/Forms/AllItems.aspx?RootFolder=%2fPublicDocuments%2f17-AAER-13=0x012000854EBC55F6E2AC47926325FA751AA84F

The CEC has become, for both North America and Europe, the tail that wags the 
dog. Consider yourself advised. Woof.

Brian

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

Re: [PSES] power strip details

2017-09-18 Thread Richard Nute

Hi Ralph:

Thanks for the reference.  My comments are validated by ANSI C62.41.1 .

Best regards,
Rich
 

-Original Message-
From: Ralph McDiarmid [mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 9:01 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] power strip details

Pardon me, the correct reference is ANSI C62.41.1  (finger trouble on keyboard)

Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric


-Original Message-
From: Ralph McDiarmid 
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 8:55 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] power strip details

While I agree that an SPD at the service entrance seems to be the way to 
suppress surges resulting from direct/near/far lightning strokes, ANSI C62.4.1 
writes about switching transients on circuits which cause oscillatory surges on 
the mains.  SPD at service entrance might be less effective for those.  The 
ANSI standard seems a very good summary of what is a complex topic.

Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric


From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2017 12:30 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] power strip details


I believe the principal culprit is the extreme magnetic field that surrounds 
the conductors when the surge protector operates rather than the current in the 
PE conductor.  This field can generate high voltages in adjacent and nearby 
low-voltage conductors such as telephone and data cables.  Think air-core 
transformer.  

If the surge protector is at the service entrance, then the high current is in 
the electricity supplier wires, and the coupling to telephone, cable, and data 
cables is reduced due to the distance between the wires. 

http://www.nemasurge.org/faqs/

Rich  


From: mickm [mailto:mjmay...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2017 1:40 AM
To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] power strip details


John,
It seems to me that TC 108 documents really devise surge protection 
component tests rather that complete equipment tests and so miss some hidden 
field gotchas. 

I with Richards point about surge protection, for me the concern is the surge 
current being diverted into the PE system creating local PE surge differential 
voltage rises.
Multi-service surge protective devices (MSPDs) - all in one surge protection 
(mitigation actually) - can cause problems here by transferring a surge on one 
service, say AC mains, to another service e.g. telephone service, because that 
service feed offers a better path for the diverted surge current than the PE 
connection. 
Equipment connected to the protected output of the MSPD should survive the 
surge, but equipment connected on the unprotected side may suffer due to the 
unexpected diverted surge. Solution, put and MSPD on every bit of equipment. 
Looks like a win-win situation for MSPD manufacturers.

 
Regards,
Mick Maytum
Safety and Telecom
Standards
mailto:mjmay...@gmail.com
Ictsp-essays.info

-- Original Message --
From: "John Woodgate" 
To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org
Sent: 16/09/2017 08:04:59
Subject: Re: [PSES] power strip details

I agree, but doesn't that also apply to surge-suppression built into equipment? 
 Should we stop requiring surge immunity testing on equipment?
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/ J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England
 
UK is a sovereignty, not a Zollverein-ty
 

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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell  
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
David Heald  

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Re: [PSES] power strip details

2017-09-18 Thread Ralph McDiarmid

While I agree that an SPD at the service entrance seems to be the way to 
suppress surges resulting from direct/near/far lightning strokes, ANSI C62.4.1 
writes about switching transients on circuits which cause oscillatory surges on 
the mains.  SPD at service entrance might be less effective for those.  The 
ANSI standard seems a very good summary of what is a complex topic.

Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric


From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2017 12:30 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] power strip details


I believe the principal culprit is the extreme magnetic field that surrounds 
the conductors when the surge protector operates rather than the current in the 
PE conductor.  This field can generate high voltages in adjacent and nearby 
low-voltage conductors such as telephone and data cables.  Think air-core 
transformer.  

If the surge protector is at the service entrance, then the high current is in 
the electricity supplier wires, and the coupling to telephone, cable, and data 
cables is reduced due to the distance between the wires. 

http://www.nemasurge.org/faqs/

Rich  


From: mickm [mailto:mjmay...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2017 1:40 AM
To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] power strip details


John,
    It seems to me that TC 108 documents really devise surge protection 
component tests rather that complete equipment tests and so miss some hidden 
field gotchas. 

I with Richards point about surge protection, for me the concern is the surge 
current being diverted into the PE system creating local PE surge differential 
voltage rises.
Multi-service surge protective devices (MSPDs) - all in one surge protection 
(mitigation actually) - can cause problems here by transferring a surge on one 
service, say AC mains, to another service e.g. telephone service, because that 
service feed offers a better path for the diverted surge current than the PE 
connection. 
Equipment connected to the protected output of the MSPD should survive the 
surge, but equipment connected on the unprotected side may suffer due to the 
unexpected diverted surge. Solution, put and MSPD on every bit of equipment. 
Looks like a win-win situation for MSPD manufacturers.

 
Regards,
Mick Maytum
Safety and Telecom
Standards
mailto:mjmay...@gmail.com
Ictsp-essays.info

-- Original Message --
From: "John Woodgate" 
To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org
Sent: 16/09/2017 08:04:59
Subject: Re: [PSES] power strip details

I agree, but doesn't that also apply to surge-suppression built into equipment? 
 Should we stop requiring surge immunity testing on equipment?
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/ J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England
 
UK is a sovereignty, not a Zollverein-ty
 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell  
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
David Heald  

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell  
For policy questions, send mail to:
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David Heald  

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Re: [PSES] power strip details

2017-09-18 Thread Ralph McDiarmid

Pardon me, the correct reference is ANSI C62.41.1  (finger trouble on keyboard)

Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric


-Original Message-
From: Ralph McDiarmid 
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 8:55 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] power strip details

While I agree that an SPD at the service entrance seems to be the way to 
suppress surges resulting from direct/near/far lightning strokes, ANSI C62.4.1 
writes about switching transients on circuits which cause oscillatory surges on 
the mains.  SPD at service entrance might be less effective for those.  The 
ANSI standard seems a very good summary of what is a complex topic.

Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric


From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2017 12:30 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] power strip details


I believe the principal culprit is the extreme magnetic field that surrounds 
the conductors when the surge protector operates rather than the current in the 
PE conductor.  This field can generate high voltages in adjacent and nearby 
low-voltage conductors such as telephone and data cables.  Think air-core 
transformer.  

If the surge protector is at the service entrance, then the high current is in 
the electricity supplier wires, and the coupling to telephone, cable, and data 
cables is reduced due to the distance between the wires. 

http://www.nemasurge.org/faqs/

Rich  


From: mickm [mailto:mjmay...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2017 1:40 AM
To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] power strip details


John,
    It seems to me that TC 108 documents really devise surge protection 
component tests rather that complete equipment tests and so miss some hidden 
field gotchas. 

I with Richards point about surge protection, for me the concern is the surge 
current being diverted into the PE system creating local PE surge differential 
voltage rises.
Multi-service surge protective devices (MSPDs) - all in one surge protection 
(mitigation actually) - can cause problems here by transferring a surge on one 
service, say AC mains, to another service e.g. telephone service, because that 
service feed offers a better path for the diverted surge current than the PE 
connection. 
Equipment connected to the protected output of the MSPD should survive the 
surge, but equipment connected on the unprotected side may suffer due to the 
unexpected diverted surge. Solution, put and MSPD on every bit of equipment. 
Looks like a win-win situation for MSPD manufacturers.

 
Regards,
Mick Maytum
Safety and Telecom
Standards
mailto:mjmay...@gmail.com
Ictsp-essays.info

-- Original Message --
From: "John Woodgate" 
To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org
Sent: 16/09/2017 08:04:59
Subject: Re: [PSES] power strip details

I agree, but doesn't that also apply to surge-suppression built into equipment? 
 Should we stop requiring surge immunity testing on equipment?
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/ J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England
 
UK is a sovereignty, not a Zollverein-ty
 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell  
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
David Heald  

__
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:

Re: [PSES] CEC NPRMs for lo-pwr mode and PF

[PSES] CEC NPRMs for lo-pwr mode and PF

Re: [PSES] power strip details

Re: [PSES] power strip details

Re: [PSES] power strip details

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