Re: [PSES] Mandatory certification

[Kevin Robinson]

Clause 2 under the definition for “acceptable” can only be used under specific 
conditions, specifically if no NRTL has the capability to test and certify the 
equipment.  In such cases, the equipment/installation would be acceptable to 
OSHA if a state/federal agency determined it was safe.  The reality is however 
that most local jurisdictions don’t want to take on the liability of approving 
non certified equipment, so they will require the owner/employer to get a field 
evaluation.

OSHA has not made an OFFICIAL interpretation of the regulations to say that a 
field evaluation could be used to meet the definition of “acceptable”.  
https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/publicationdate/currentyear

Disclaimer: My positions posted here are my own and do not represent the 
official positions of my employer the US Department of Labor or OSHA.

Kevin Robinson

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From: Richard Nute 
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 8:15:36 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Subject: Re: [PSES] Mandatory certification




Hi Regan:



Yes, if that piece of equipment is not within any NRTL purview.



Best regards,

Rich





From: Regan Arndt 
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 1:22 PM
To: Richard Nute 
Cc: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [PSES] Mandatory certification



Hi Rich.



If you are referring to clause (2):



(2) With respect to an installation or equipment of a kind that no nationally 
recognized testing laboratory accepts, certifies, lists, labels, or determines 
to be safe, if it is inspected or tested by another Federal agency, or by a 
State, municipal, or other local authority responsible for enforcing 
occupational safety provisions of the National Electrical Code, and found in 
compliance with the provisions of the National Electrical Code as applied in 
this subpart; or



Correct me if I am wrong, "BUT ONLY" if that piece of equipment cannot be 
certified by the NRTL's, which is almost rare nowadays when you look at the 
extensive scope of accreditation of the NRTL's.



Regan



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Re: [PSES] Mandatory certification

[Richard Nute]

 

Hi Regan:  

 

Yes, if that piece of equipment is not within any NRTL purview.   

 

Best regards,

Rich

 

 

From: Regan Arndt  
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 1:22 PM
To: Richard Nute 
Cc: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [PSES] Mandatory certification

 

Hi Rich.

 

If you are referring to clause (2):

 

(2) With respect to an installation or equipment of a kind that no nationally 
recognized testing laboratory accepts, certifies, lists, labels, or determines 
to be safe, if it is inspected or tested by another Federal agency, or by a 
State, municipal, or other local authority responsible for enforcing 
occupational safety provisions of the National Electrical Code, and found in 
compliance with the provisions of the National Electrical Code as applied in 
this subpart; or  

 

Correct me if I am wrong, "BUT ONLY" if that piece of equipment cannot be 
certified by the NRTL's, which is almost rare nowadays when you look at the 
extensive scope of accreditation of the NRTL's. 

 

Regan

 


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Re: [PSES] Mandatory certification

[Regan Arndt]

Hi Rich.

If you are referring to clause (2):

*(2) With respect to an installation or equipment of a kind that no
nationally recognized testing laboratory accepts, certifies, lists, labels,
or determines to be safe, if it is inspected or tested by another Federal
agency, or by a State, municipal, or other local authority responsible for
enforcing occupational safety provisions of the National Electrical Code,
and found in compliance with the provisions of the National Electrical Code
as applied in this subpart; o*r

Correct me if I am wrong, "BUT ONLY" if that piece of equipment *cannot be
certified by the NRTL's*, which is almost rare nowadays when you look at
the extensive scope of accreditation of the NRTL's.

Regan

On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 10:58 AM Richard Nute  wrote:

>
>
> Hi Regan:
>
>
>
> While field inspection is not part of OSHA's NRTL program, OSHA rules
> allow another government (federal, state, local) organization to determine
> compliance with the NEC.  See:
>
>
>
> https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.399
>
>
>
> I would guess that such a government organization (not the manufacturer)
> would hire a NRTL to do a field inspection.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Regan Arndt 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2020 10:46 AM
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Mandatory certification
>
>
>
> Hello Dave/Bernd.
>
>
>
> Just a comment/clarification. The field inspection/label program is not
> part of OSHA's NRTL program despite some NRTL's that conducted this
> service. I know it can seem confusing but there are also some non-NRTL's
> that conduct these field evaluations, all of which are under state
> jurisdiction.
>
>
>
> Some may think they are abiding by OSHA rules with obtaining a field
> evaluation by an NRTL. That is not the case.
>
>
>
> Regan
>
>
>

-

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Re: [PSES] Mandatory certification

[Wiseman, Joshua]

Having worked for an NRTL in the past and with a few manufacturers, I can 
attest to Dave’s comment.  Generally, the manufacturer is responsible for the 
field inspection of the equipment.  Several of the major NRTL’s in the US have 
a program in place for this process.

Josh

Joshua Wiseman
Systems Engineering
Staff Engineer, Product Safety/EMC
Ortho Clinical Diagnostics

[cid:image001.png@01D5E800.7268C310]

From: David Nyffenegger 
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 2:46 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Mandatory certification

EXTERNAL SENDER: Verify links, attachments and sender before taking action


Or typically the government organization, the AHJ, simply accepts the field 
inspection label applied by NRTL or other recognized entity.  The 
owner/operator of the product is ultimately responsible for the inspection.  
I’ve never known a government organization to hire a NRTL for field inspection, 
unless of course the product in question is owned/operated by said government 
organization (which is not unusual.)   In my experience as a manufacturer we 
will often provide for a field inspection/label of un-listed product as part of 
the sales agreement to the customer.

-Dave

On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 1:59 PM Richard Nute 
mailto:ri...@ieee.org>> wrote:

Hi Regan:

While field inspection is not part of OSHA's NRTL program, OSHA rules allow 
another government (federal, state, local) organization to determine compliance 
with the NEC.  See:

https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.399

I would guess that such a government organization (not the manufacturer) would 
hire a NRTL to do a field inspection.

Best regards,
Rich


From: Regan Arndt mailto:reganar...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 10:46 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Mandatory certification

Hello Dave/Bernd.

Just a comment/clarification. The field inspection/label program is not part of 
OSHA's NRTL program despite some NRTL's that conducted this service. I know it 
can seem confusing but there are also some non-NRTL's that conduct these field 
evaluations, all of which are under state jurisdiction.

Some may think they are abiding by OSHA rules with obtaining a field evaluation 
by an NRTL. That is not the case.

Regan

-


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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
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http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/
 can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.

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Re: [PSES] Mandatory certification

[David Nyffenegger]

Or typically the government organization, the AHJ, simply accepts the field
inspection label applied by NRTL or other recognized entity.  The
owner/operator of the product is ultimately responsible for the
inspection.  I’ve never known a government organization to hire a NRTL for
field inspection, unless of course the product in question is
owned/operated by said government organization (which is not unusual.)   In
my experience as a manufacturer we will often provide for a field
inspection/label of un-listed product as part of the sales agreement to the
customer.



-Dave

On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 1:59 PM Richard Nute  wrote:

>
>
> Hi Regan:
>
>
>
> While field inspection is not part of OSHA's NRTL program, OSHA rules
> allow another government (federal, state, local) organization to determine
> compliance with the NEC.  See:
>
>
>
> https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.399
>
>
>
> I would guess that such a government organization (not the manufacturer)
> would hire a NRTL to do a field inspection.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Regan Arndt 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2020 10:46 AM
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Mandatory certification
>
>
>
> Hello Dave/Bernd.
>
>
>
> Just a comment/clarification. The field inspection/label program is not
> part of OSHA's NRTL program despite some NRTL's that conducted this
> service. I know it can seem confusing but there are also some non-NRTL's
> that conduct these field evaluations, all of which are under state
> jurisdiction.
>
>
>
> Some may think they are abiding by OSHA rules with obtaining a field
> evaluation by an NRTL. That is not the case.
>
>
>
> Regan
>
>
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> emc-p...@ieee.org
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
> Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org
> David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
>

-

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formats), large files, etc.

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David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Mandatory certification

[Richard Nute]

 

Hi Regan:

 

While field inspection is not part of OSHA's NRTL program, OSHA rules allow 
another government (federal, state, local) organization to determine compliance 
with the NEC.  See:

 

https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.399

 

I would guess that such a government organization (not the manufacturer) would 
hire a NRTL to do a field inspection. 

 

Best regards,

Rich

 

 

From: Regan Arndt  
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 10:46 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Mandatory certification

 

Hello Dave/Bernd.

 

Just a comment/clarification. The field inspection/label program is not part of 
OSHA's NRTL program despite some NRTL's that conducted this service. I know it 
can seem confusing but there are also some non-NRTL's that conduct these field 
evaluations, all of which are under state jurisdiction.

 

Some may think they are abiding by OSHA rules with obtaining a field evaluation 
by an NRTL. That is not the case.

 

Regan

 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

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Mike Cantwell 

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