Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?

2021-06-04 Thread Pete Perkins 
Cortland, Thanx for sharing your story.  All of us have had similar 
experiences, passing it on is the fun part when folks are willing to learn.  
Passing it on is frustrating when folks don’t want to learn, only to argue.  

   On the product safety side I learned early on to not argue but 
invoke a simple test and watch the designer’s eyes be opened in amazement when 
his superior design wouldn’t pass a test that he had already agreed seemed 
reasonable.  (How to make friends and influence people.)  

Of course, product safety seemed better organized and reasonable :>) . 

EMC stuff was always bat’s wings and dragon’s teeth implemented with baling 
wire and conductive tape over al foil (and the ever present box of assorted 
filters).   

 

The technology has come a long way; fortunately, not all of the engineers have 
so there exists room for experience to handhold and lead the uninitiated along 
the path of learning.  As PT Barnum claimed: A fool is born every minute; what 
a great opportunity exists.  

 

It’s been a great ride.  I still encourage young folks to find what they really 
like to do and then find someone dumb enough to pay them to do it.  I have 
enjoyed my more than 60 yr professional engineering career that way. 

 

:>) br,  Pete

 

Peter E Perkins, PE

Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant

PO Box 1067

Albany, ORe  97321-0413

 

503/452-1201

 

IEEE Life Fellow

IEEE PSES 2020 Distinguished Lecturer

  www.researchgate.net search my 
name

  p.perk...@ieee.org

 

 

Entropy ain’t what it used to be

 

From: Cortland Richmond  
Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 10:54 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass 
first time?

 

I started in EMC on retiring from the Army in 1983, at Wang Labs, where my 15 
years in avionics maintenance and repair, a few teaching at its school  in 
Georgia,  plus a Secret clearance to do TEMPEST testing, meant  all I needed 
was a three-letter course given by three-letter instructors.

EMC compliance and vulnerability is very basic, and yet, many of the degreed 
engineers I worked with sometimes had me teaching EMC "lunch and learns", or 
arguing for fixes from shield terminations to chassis contact points to avoid 
just as expensive (and less reliable) slip-on copper fingers.  GE Aviation 
recruited me ("Smith Aerospace" in Michigan just then) and it was often the 
basics that designers adn engineers often misunderstood or forgot. "Put the 
electrons back before they scream for their mothers!"

And every employer had files my first manager at Smiths/GE called "files 
written down."  High School physics, or so I thought.

I retried to a few years working on contracts, and I doubt I'll be working 
again at 77 -- but it was FUN.

Ad astra per Asperger -- discovered at 67.

Cortland

 

-Original Message- 
From: Jim Hulbert 
Sent: May 26, 2021 7:58 AM 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG   
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass 
first time? 




I first started in the EMC, Product Safety, and standards compliance aspect of 
engineering about 35 years ago.  At that time they were saying all the same 
things we are saying today:  Must be considered up front in designs.  Must be 
included in engineering education at the college/university level.  Management 
needs to commit to compliance.  I would also add that EMC was “black magic” (do 
people still say that?).   Apparently we still have a long way to go.  I wonder 
if they will still be saying these things 35 years from now.

 

Jim Hulbert

 

From: John E Allen <09cc677f395b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org 
 > 
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 5:59 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?

 

Like a “lot” of people here, I never had any formal education in either safety 
or EMC compliance – I just had to learn “on the job” about “what worked and 
what didn’t”, and often in very challenging situations. 

(OTOH, I was never the “sharpest tool in the toolbox” in engineering  parlance 
– which was a “problem”  when engaging with local management which, frankly, 
mainly “didn’t to know” ☹, ) 

 

Therefore safety, standards compliance and EMC standards compliance REALLY MUST 
be an integral component of engineering education – and ALSO for company 
management - forward from where we are “now”.

 

John E Allen

W. London, UK.

 

 

From: Dennis Ward <0dbeaa892a40-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org 
 > 
Sent: 25 May 2021 21:09
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] What percentage of produc

Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?

2021-06-04 Thread Pete Perkins 
Yes, John,There were things that we did at 20 or 40 or even 60 
that, if we can do them, take longer now.  

 

   Some of this was things that we did when we were young and 
foolish; we’re not so young anymore.  

 

   Here in the US we’re familiar with the folk song: ‘The old Gray 
Mare ain’t what she used to be’.  

 

:>) br,  Pete

 

Peter E Perkins, PE

Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant

PO Box 1067

Albany, ORe  97321-0413

 

503/452-1201

 

IEEE Life Fellow

IEEE PSES 2020 Distinguished Lecturer

  www.researchgate.net search my 
name

  p.perk...@ieee.org

 

 

Entropy ain’t what it used to be

 

From: john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk  
Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 1:31 PM
To: 'Pete Perkins' 
Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass 
first time?

 

Not bragging - given that I have quite a few “physical problems” ( arthritic 
knee, displace L3 vertibra)  that have since all but prevented me from actually 
doing most of what I previously hoped that I could be doing now ☹

 

From: Pete Perkins mailto:peperkin...@cs.com> > 
Sent: 04 June 2021 20:58
To: john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk  ; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: RE: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass 
first time?

 

Ok, Quit bragging, I’ve got you both beat.  

 

:>) br,  Pete

 

Peter E Perkins, PE

Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant

PO Box 1067

Albany, ORe  97321-0413

 

503/452-1201

 

IEEE Life Fellow

IEEE PSES 2020 Distinguished Lecturer

  www.researchgate.net search my 
name

  p.perk...@ieee.org

 

 

Entropy ain’t what it used to be

 

From: John E Allen <09cc677f395b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org 
 > 
Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 12:54 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass 
first time?

 

Correct, but I made mine about 5 ½ yrs after the end of my last contract – so 
many other “things” I wanted to do that I’d not had time for over the previous 
many years.

 

From: John Woodgate mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk> > 
Sent: 04 June 2021 20:42
To: john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk  ; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass 
first time?

 

Everyone has a choice. 

==
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk  
Rayleigh, Essex UK
Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque

On 2021-06-04 20:40, john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk 
  wrote:

No way will I be “going back to contracting”  - 6 yrs away from all that hassle 
has convinced me that it wouldn’t be worth all the hassle & stress (had quite 
enough of that whilst I was working - contract or not!), especially now that 
the UK tax regs on contract work have become more complex & difficult to 
“navigate”. ☹

 

OTOH, I thought I’d deleted my LinkedIn a/c but I still get a few “job 
opportunities” flagged up by various agencies which got my contact details from 
that site – seems that deleting those a/c’s is considerably more “difficult” 
than it should be ☹.

 

John E Allen

W.London, UK

 

From: John Woodgate    
Sent: 04 June 2021 19:56
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass 
first time?

 

Don't assume. I've just been hired at 83.5 years old. Not a long-term hire, nor 
well paid, but every little helps.

==
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk  
Rayleigh, Essex UK
Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque

On 2021-06-04 18:54, Cortland Richmond wrote:

I retried to a few years working on contracts, and I doubt I'll be working 
again at 77 -- but it was FUN.

 


 

 

Virus-free.  

 www.avg.com 

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> >

Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?

2021-06-04 Thread John E Allen 
Not bragging - given that I have quite a few “physical problems” ( arthritic 
knee, displace L3 vertibra)  that have since all but prevented me from actually 
doing most of what I previously hoped that I could be doing now ☹

 

From: Pete Perkins  
Sent: 04 June 2021 20:58
To: john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass 
first time?

 

Ok, Quit bragging, I’ve got you both beat.  

 

:>) br,  Pete

 

Peter E Perkins, PE

Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant

PO Box 1067

Albany, ORe  97321-0413

 

503/452-1201

 

IEEE Life Fellow

IEEE PSES 2020 Distinguished Lecturer

  www.researchgate.net search my 
name

  p.perk...@ieee.org

 

 

Entropy ain’t what it used to be

 

From: John E Allen <09cc677f395b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org 
 > 
Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 12:54 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass 
first time?

 

Correct, but I made mine about 5 ½ yrs after the end of my last contract – so 
many other “things” I wanted to do that I’d not had time for over the previous 
many years.

 

From: John Woodgate mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk> > 
Sent: 04 June 2021 20:42
To: john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk  ; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass 
first time?

 

Everyone has a choice. 

==
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk  
Rayleigh, Essex UK
Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque

On 2021-06-04 20:40, john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk 
  wrote:

No way will I be “going back to contracting”  - 6 yrs away from all that hassle 
has convinced me that it wouldn’t be worth all the hassle & stress (had quite 
enough of that whilst I was working - contract or not!), especially now that 
the UK tax regs on contract work have become more complex & difficult to 
“navigate”. ☹

 

OTOH, I thought I’d deleted my LinkedIn a/c but I still get a few “job 
opportunities” flagged up by various agencies which got my contact details from 
that site – seems that deleting those a/c’s is considerably more “difficult” 
than it should be ☹.

 

John E Allen

W.London, UK

 

From: John Woodgate    
Sent: 04 June 2021 19:56
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass 
first time?

 

Don't assume. I've just been hired at 83.5 years old. Not a long-term hire, nor 
well paid, but every little helps.

==
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk  
Rayleigh, Essex UK
Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque



On 2021-06-04 18:54, Cortland Richmond wrote:

I retried to a few years working on contracts, and I doubt I'll be working 
again at 77 -- but it was FUN.

 


 

 

Virus-free.  

 www.avg.com 

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
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Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?

2021-06-04 Thread Pete Perkins 
Ok, Quit bragging, I’ve got you both beat.  

 

:>) br,  Pete

 

Peter E Perkins, PE

Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant

PO Box 1067

Albany, ORe  97321-0413

 

503/452-1201

 

IEEE Life Fellow

IEEE PSES 2020 Distinguished Lecturer

  www.researchgate.net search my 
name

  p.perk...@ieee.org

 

 

Entropy ain’t what it used to be

 

From: John E Allen <09cc677f395b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> 
Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 12:54 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass 
first time?

 

Correct, but I made mine about 5 ½ yrs after the end of my last contract – so 
many other “things” I wanted to do that I’d not had time for over the previous 
many years.

 

From: John Woodgate mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk> > 
Sent: 04 June 2021 20:42
To: john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk  ; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass 
first time?

 

Everyone has a choice. 

==
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk  
Rayleigh, Essex UK
Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque



On 2021-06-04 20:40, john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk 
  wrote:

No way will I be “going back to contracting”  - 6 yrs away from all that hassle 
has convinced me that it wouldn’t be worth all the hassle & stress (had quite 
enough of that whilst I was working - contract or not!), especially now that 
the UK tax regs on contract work have become more complex & difficult to 
“navigate”. ☹

 

OTOH, I thought I’d deleted my LinkedIn a/c but I still get a few “job 
opportunities” flagged up by various agencies which got my contact details from 
that site – seems that deleting those a/c’s is considerably more “difficult” 
than it should be ☹.

 

John E Allen

W.London, UK

 

From: John Woodgate    
Sent: 04 June 2021 19:56
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass 
first time?

 

Don't assume. I've just been hired at 83.5 years old. Not a long-term hire, nor 
well paid, but every little helps.

==
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk  
Rayleigh, Essex UK
Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque




On 2021-06-04 18:54, Cortland Richmond wrote:

I retried to a few years working on contracts, and I doubt I'll be working 
again at 77 -- but it was FUN.

 


 

 

Virus-free.  

 www.avg.com 

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> >

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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formats), large files, etc.

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Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?

2021-06-04 Thread John E Allen 
Correct, but I made mine about 5 ½ yrs after the end of my last contract – so 
many other “things” I wanted to do that I’d not had time for over the previous 
many years.

 

From: John Woodgate  
Sent: 04 June 2021 20:42
To: john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass 
first time?

 

Everyone has a choice. 

==
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk  
Rayleigh, Essex UK
Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque




On 2021-06-04 20:40, john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk 
  wrote:

No way will I be “going back to contracting”  - 6 yrs away from all that hassle 
has convinced me that it wouldn’t be worth all the hassle & stress (had quite 
enough of that whilst I was working - contract or not!), especially now that 
the UK tax regs on contract work have become more complex & difficult to 
“navigate”. ☹

 

OTOH, I thought I’d deleted my LinkedIn a/c but I still get a few “job 
opportunities” flagged up by various agencies which got my contact details from 
that site – seems that deleting those a/c’s is considerably more “difficult” 
than it should be ☹.

 

John E Allen

W.London, UK

 

From: John Woodgate    
Sent: 04 June 2021 19:56
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass 
first time?

 

Don't assume. I've just been hired at 83.5 years old. Not a long-term hire, nor 
well paid, but every little helps.

==
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk  
Rayleigh, Essex UK
Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque





On 2021-06-04 18:54, Cortland Richmond wrote:

I retried to a few years working on contracts, and I doubt I'll be working 
again at 77 -- but it was FUN.

 


 

 

Virus-free.  

 www.avg.com 

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> >

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

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Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?

2021-06-04 Thread John Woodgate 

Everyone has a choice.

==
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque



On 2021-06-04 20:40, john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:


No way will I be “going back to contracting”  - 6 yrs away from all 
that hassle has convinced me that it wouldn’t be worth all the hassle 
& stress (had quite enough of that whilst I was working - contract or 
not!), especially now that the UK tax regs on contract work have 
become more complex & difficult to “navigate”. ☹


OTOH, I thought I’d deleted my LinkedIn a/c but I still get a few “job 
opportunities” flagged up by various agencies which got my contact 
details from that site – seems that deleting those a/c’s is 
considerably more “difficult” than it should be ☹.


John E Allen

W.London, UK

*From:*John Woodgate 
*Sent:* 04 June 2021 19:56
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of 
products pass first time?


Don't assume. I've just been hired at 83.5 years old. Not a long-term 
hire, nor well paid, but every little helps.


==
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk 
Rayleigh, Essex UK
Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque


On 2021-06-04 18:54, Cortland Richmond wrote:

I retried to a few years working on contracts, and I doubt I'll be
working again at 77 -- but it was FUN.

Image removed by sender. 





Virus-free. www.avg.com 



-


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emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>


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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities 
site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
 can be used for graphics (in 
well-used formats), large files, etc.


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unsubscribe) 
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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?

2021-06-04 Thread John E Allen 
No way will I be “going back to contracting”  - 6 yrs away from all that hassle 
has convinced me that it wouldn’t be worth all the hassle & stress (had quite 
enough of that whilst I was working - contract or not!), especially now that 
the UK tax regs on contract work have become more complex & difficult to 
“navigate”. ☹

 

OTOH, I thought I’d deleted my LinkedIn a/c but I still get a few “job 
opportunities” flagged up by various agencies which got my contact details from 
that site – seems that deleting those a/c’s is considerably more “difficult” 
than it should be ☹.

 

John E Allen

W.London, UK

 

From: John Woodgate  
Sent: 04 June 2021 19:56
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass 
first time?

 

Don't assume. I've just been hired at 83.5 years old. Not a long-term hire, nor 
well paid, but every little helps.

==
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk  
Rayleigh, Essex UK
Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque




On 2021-06-04 18:54, Cortland Richmond wrote:

I retried to a few years working on contracts, and I doubt I'll be working 
again at 77 -- but it was FUN.

 


 

 

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Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?

2021-06-04 Thread John Woodgate 
Don't assume. I've just been hired at 83.5 years old. Not a long-term 
hire, nor well paid, but every little helps.


==
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque



On 2021-06-04 18:54, Cortland Richmond wrote:
I retried to a few years working on contracts, and I doubt I'll be 
working again at 77 -- but it was FUN.



--
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Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?

2021-06-04 Thread Cortland Richmond 
I started in EMC on retiring from the Army in 1983, at Wang Labs,
  where my 15 years in avionics maintenance and repair, a few
  teaching at its school  in Georgia,  plus a Secret clearance to do
  TEMPEST testing, meant  all I needed was a three-letter course
  given by three-letter instructors.
  
  EMC compliance and vulnerability is very basic, and yet, many of
  the degreed engineers I worked with sometimes had me teaching EMC
  "lunch and learns", or arguing for fixes from shield terminations
  to chassis contact points to avoid just as expensive (and less
  reliable) slip-on copper fingers.  GE Aviation recruited me
  ("Smith Aerospace" in Michigan just then) and it was often the
  basics that designers adn engineers often misunderstood or forgot.
  "Put the electrons back before they scream for their mothers!"
  
  And every employer had files my first manager at Smiths/GE called
  "files written down."  High School physics, or so I thought.
  
  I retried to a few years working on contracts, and I doubt I'll be
  working again at 77 -- but it was FUN.
  
  Ad astra per Asperger -- discovered at 67.
Cortland-Original Message-
From: Jim Hulbert 
Sent: May 26, 2021 7:58 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?









I first started in the EMC, Product Safety, and standards compliance aspect of engineering about 35 years ago.  At that time they were saying all the same things we are saying today:  Must be considered up front in designs.  Must be included
 in engineering education at the college/university level.  Management needs to commit to compliance.  I would also add that EMC was “black magic” (do people still say that?).   Apparently we still have a long way to go.  I wonder if they will still be saying
 these things 35 years from now.
 
Jim Hulbert
 


From: John E Allen <09cc677f395b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>

Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 5:59 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?


 
Like a “lot” of people here, I never had any formal education in either safety or EMC compliance – I just had to learn “on the job” about “what worked and what didn’t”, and often in very challenging situations.

(OTOH, I was never the “sharpest tool in the toolbox” in engineering  parlance – which was a “problem”  when engaging with local management which, frankly, mainly “didn’t to know”
☹, )

 
Therefore safety, standards compliance and EMC standards compliance REALLY MUST be an integral component of engineering education –
and ALSO for company management - forward from where we are “now”.
 
John E Allen
W. London, UK.
 
 


From: Dennis Ward <0dbeaa892a40-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>

Sent: 25 May 2021 21:09
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?


 
Having been in the EMC business now for going on 40+years, I concur with what Pete is saying.  The truth of the matter is, this field of study is sadly under taught and is still more hands on and learning by trial and error for the most
 part.  Yes, there are a lot of good ‘classes’ you can take, but the fact remains, this is more than not an OJT field.
 
As to manufacturers designing at the limit.  This is also true, and also problematic as it means far too many products still fail first time out. 

 
I don’t know if I would necessarily agree with the percentages reported, but it is getting a better. 

 
My last 20+ years has been working in the regulatory approvals end and I can say that failure to comply with rules and standards is still a big issue with manufacturers.
 
Thanks 
 


Dennis Ward
Senior Reviewing Engineer
PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, LLC.
7185 Oakland Mills Road
Columbia, MD  21045
1 410 290 6652)

dennis.w...@pctest.com | 
www.pctest.com | 
www.element.com 

This communication and any attachment contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, LLC. and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above.

 


From: Pete Perkins <0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>

Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 12:39 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?


 

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James,   
You don’t have to denigrate yourself as not being a guru.  You have plenty of experience in this as shown by your comments.  Sharing this is quite valuable to the others on this thread. 

   All of us started out as ignorant of any of these requirements because they are not taught in formal college level courses; a few exc