Re: [PSES] UK Authorised Reresntative

[John Woodgate]

For what products, as explicitly as possible? A 'general-purpose' 
entity, that doesn't understand the product but does understand the fee, 
is a menace. The AR need to know as much as possible (or as the 
manufacturer can afford) about the product.


==
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
It all depends



On 2022-08-25 20:14, Steve Brody wrote:

Hello all,

I have a client who is looking for an entity in the UK they can 
contract with to be their UK AR.


Any suggestions, preferably based on experience?

Thanks,

Steve Brody
sgbr...@comcast.net
C - 603 617 9116
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Re: [PSES] High Touch Current and GFCIs

[John Woodgate]

There is also a question in my mind as to whether there can be partial 
cancellation of touch current. I suspect this is highly improbable in 
the US, due to the distribution system ensuring that the neutral has a 
very low voltage difference from the PEC. But in Europe, it's not 
inconceivable that the neutral could be, say, 4.6 V relative to PEC and 
the neutral-to-PEC capacitance 25 times that of L to PEC, so that half 
the L-to-PEC leakage current is cancelled by the N to PEC current.


==
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
It all depends



On 2022-08-25 19:12, Richard Nute wrote:


I wish to make two points:

 1. Kirchoff’s Current Law states that the sum of currents entering a
node equals the sum of currents leaving the node.  The Law applies
to summation of leakage (touch) currents (e.g., through a
2,000-ohm resistor) and to summation of protective conductor
currents (through 0 ohms).  In a power strip protective grounding
conductor, I’m assuming 0 ohms to ground, so the current is
slightly higher (1 to 10 % depending on the leakage current limit
and the voltage you are using) in the protective grounding
conductor than leakage (touch) current.

See IEC 60990 for touch (leakage) current and protective conductor 
current measurement procedures.


 2. A GFCI measures the current difference between line and neutral
conductors, not current in the protective conductor.  It nominally
operates at 5 mA.  We assume (with a reasonable degree of
accuracy) that leakage (touch) current is 100% of the differential
current measured by the GFCI.  It is possible, although unlikely,
for some of the GFCI differential current to find another return
path than the protective grounding conductor.

Best regards,

Rich

*From:* Lfresearch Jose 
<00734758d943-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>

*Sent:* Wednesday, August 24, 2022 1:44 PM
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] High Touch Current and GFCIs

I have wondered about something similar.

If I use a 6 way power strip, I’m assuming all the leakage currents 
for anything plugged in sum. Is that correct? I recall getting a few 
trips when I used a power strip and It’s only just twigged that might 
be why.


Cheers,

Derek.

Sent from my iPad



On Aug 24, 2022, at 3:27 PM, Brian Kunde  wrote:



If I have a rake of electrical equipment with a single power cord
and a combined touch current exceeding 6mA, and I plug the rake
into a circuit with a GFCI, will it trip?

Thanks.

The Other Brian

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[PSES] UK Authorised Reresntative

[Steve Brody]

Hello all,

I have a client who is looking for an entity in the UK they can contract with 
to be their UK AR.

Any suggestions, preferably based on experience?

Thanks,

Steve Brody
sgbr...@comcast.net mailto:sgbr...@comcast.net
C - 603 617 9116

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Re: [PSES] High Touch Current and GFCIs

[Richard Nute]

 

 

I wish to make two points:

 

1.  Kirchoff’s Current Law states that the sum of currents entering a node 
equals the sum of currents leaving the node.  The Law applies to summation of 
leakage (touch) currents (e.g., through a 2,000-ohm resistor) and to summation 
of protective conductor currents (through 0 ohms).  In a power strip protective 
grounding conductor, I’m assuming 0 ohms to ground, so the current is slightly 
higher (1 to 10 % depending on the leakage current limit and the voltage you 
are using) in the protective grounding conductor than leakage (touch) current. 

 

See IEC 60990 for touch (leakage) current and protective conductor current 
measurement procedures.  

 

2.  A GFCI measures the current difference between line and neutral 
conductors, not current in the protective conductor.  It nominally operates at 
5 mA.  We assume (with a reasonable degree of accuracy) that leakage (touch) 
current is 100% of the differential current measured by the GFCI.  It is 
possible, although unlikely, for some of the GFCI differential current to find 
another return path than the protective grounding conductor.

Best regards,

Rich

 

 

From: Lfresearch Jose <00734758d943-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2022 1:44 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] High Touch Current and GFCIs

 

I have wondered about something similar.

 

If I use a 6 way power strip, I’m assuming all the leakage currents for 
anything plugged in sum. Is that correct? I recall getting a few trips when I 
used a power strip and It’s only just twigged that might be why.

 

Cheers,

 

Derek.

Sent from my iPad





On Aug 24, 2022, at 3:27 PM, Brian Kunde mailto:bkundew...@gmail.com> > wrote:



If I have a rake of electrical equipment with a single power cord and a 
combined touch current exceeding 6mA, and I plug the rake into a circuit with a 
GFCI, will it trip?  

 

Thanks.

 

The Other Brian

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[PSES] Germany's Information Security requirements: Federal Office for Information Security - BSI

[Richard Georgerian]

Greetings all,

 

We are looking into Germany's Information Security requirements that is
mandated by the German Federal Office for Information Security. Does anyone
in the group have any experience with their process?

 

Any assistance and advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank-you,

 

.Richard Georgerian

Compliance Engineer

HID Global


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[PSES] Design benefits for Class 1 appliances without an access earth point

[Scott Xe]

In general, the Class 1 appliances have metal enclosure whereas Class 2
have plastic enclosure.  There is a small group of products that are Class
1 without an access earth point, i.e. shredding machines, desktop fans,
laptop/monitor power suppliers, etc.  What are the real benefits from such
design as compared with Class 2 design?

Thanks and regards,

Scott

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Re: [PSES] Harmonised standards

[Gert Gremmen]

Hi Brain

Method #1 and #2 are equivalent (if the were the same standard):

#2 list 3 documents that -once merged- form one harmonised standard

#1 list the original standard plus  the applicable harmonised amendment


Method 3 is not recommended IMHO.

Gert gremmen

On 24-8-2022 21:48, Brian Kunde wrote:
This topic goes a little deeper, I think.  Question being, how are the 
harmonized standards to be listed on your DoC?


It appears to me that the Commission lists standards a couple 
different ways, which adds to the confusion. For example, on the EMCD 
Harmonized Standards list, it shows it one way as:


Method #1
EN 16361:2013+A1:2016

but then for another standard shows it this way:

Method #2
EN 50065-2-1:2003, EN 50065-2-1:2003/A1:2005, EN 50065-2-1:2003/AC:2003

Using the first method, the above could be listed as

Method #1
EN 50065-2-1:2003+AC:2033+A1:2005

I thought we had a discussion a year or so ago where the plus sign "+" 
was to be replaced by the slash "/".  If that is true, then the above 
could be listed as:


Method #3
EN 50065-2-1:2003/AC:2033/A1:2005

But this method could be technically confusing thinking you are using 
only the amendment to show compliance. Yet, we all know what 
this really means, right?.


So, which is correct?  Does it really matter?  Using method #2 above 
is probably the most correct, but it is very long.  I prefer method #1 
or #3 because it is shorter and gets the point across.


Comments?

The Other Brian






On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 11:59 AM Scott Xe  wrote:

Hi Gert,

Thanks for your useful reply!  The EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020
contains the corrigendum only, no any technical changes.  Does AC
have another condition to qualify for?

Will arrange some time for visiting the CENELEC site.

Best regards,

Scott

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 at 21:38, Gert Gremmen 
wrote:

Hi Scott,

No only the :

EN 55032 : 2017  is the Harmonised Standard (1 documnet)
EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020  is the (Harmonised) amendment only
(1 dcoument)

Both documents are needed. (did not check the OJ for you)

EN 55032 : 2017+A11 : 2020  is both documents together.

AC stands for Corrigendum, most used for plain error, typos
,wrong
references etc.

There is lots of info on the site of CENELEC on these
subjects. Worth so
spent an afternoon.

Gert Gremmen

On 24-8-2022 15:06, Scott Xe wrote:
> EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020
>
-- 
Independent Expert on CE marking

EMC Consultant
Electrical Safety Consultant

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