[PSES] Equipment Compliance Position - Ecolab Inc.

[Kortas, Jamison]

Good Afternoon All,

Just a heads up that we have an equipment compliance position open here in St. 
Paul. Looking for a person with solid experience in product lifecycle 
management, engineering change management, regulatory advocacy – codes, 
standards, laws, and project and project portfolio management.

Link to description is here: 
http://jobs.ecolab.com/job/7398791/sr-regulatory-specialist-i-eagan-mn/

Feel free to contact me directly at 
jamison.kor...@ecolab.com.

Thanks very much,

Jamison

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[PSES] New LG Monitors and Wi-Fi

[Kortas, Jamison]

What do you all think of this? Is this user error (too close), or a design 
issue?

https://9to5mac.com/2017/01/30/lg-ultrafine-5k-display-router-disconnecting/


Thanks,

Jamison

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Re: [PSES] Document and Project Management Systems?

[Kortas, Jamison]

Thanks Doug and John,

I will look at the ones mentioned. Much appreacited.

-Jamison

From: Douglas Nix [mailto:d...@mac.com]
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 3:14 PM
To: Kortas, Jamison <jamison.kor...@ecolab.com>
Cc: IEEE EMC PSTC <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] Document and Project Management Systems?

I use an application called Daylite to do all my customer relationship 
management and project management. I can’t say enough about how good this 
software is, and how much it has helped me to keep track of all the important 
details.

I combine Daylite with another app from the same developer, called Billings. 
Billings allows me to keep track of my hours and expenses on each project, and 
can be used to generate invoices too if you aren’t already using an accounting 
system to do that. It also integrates with MoneyWorks Gold, which is what we 
use for our bookkeeping. I can transfer my hours and expenses directly to 
MoneyWorks over our network, and then our accounting folks know automatically 
what needs to be invoiced each month or by project.

For client that want or need Gantt charts for project planning, or who provide 
me with project files like that, I use OmniPlan for project planning. I rarely 
generate a project plan that way, as most of clients don’t need that, but I 
have done it on occasion as needed.

I’ve created template files for the rest of the work, including template 
Technical Files and so on, and I use those structures to sort and file the 
design documents, test plans, etc. I create tasks in Daylite that are pinned to 
dates in the calendar so that I can keep track of everything that needs to be 
done on any given project.

--
Doug Nix
d...@mac.com<mailto:d...@mac.com>

You are centered when you are open to discovery, no matter what the 
circumstances, and when you are willing to learn and to change based on what 
you learn. -- Judith S. Warner



On 13-Jan-17, at 11:55, Kortas, Jamison 
<jamison.kor...@ecolab.com<mailto:jamison.kor...@ecolab.com>> wrote:

Hello All,

I wanted to see if anyone would be willing to share what they use for document 
and project management. Technical file contents, DoCs, Project Submittal Data, 
pertinent project information, correspondence, etc.  Doesn’t matter if it is a 
standalone software tool, an external firm, a module within a larger system 
(SAP), I am curious.  Looking for ways to streamline the tracking, maintenance, 
expiration/renewal, dissemination, and versioning expectations.

If it ties into your project management software, I would love to hear about 
what you use in that regard as well.

Thanks and have a great weekend.
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[PSES] Document and Project Management Systems?

[Kortas, Jamison]

Hello All,

I wanted to see if anyone would be willing to share what they use for document 
and project management. Technical file contents, DoCs, Project Submittal Data, 
pertinent project information, correspondence, etc.  Doesn't matter if it is a 
standalone software tool, an external firm, a module within a larger system 
(SAP), I am curious.  Looking for ways to streamline the tracking, maintenance, 
expiration/renewal, dissemination, and versioning expectations.

If it ties into your project management software, I would love to hear about 
what you use in that regard as well.

Thanks and have a great weekend.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail communication and any attachments may 
contain proprietary and privileged information for the use of the designated 
recipients named above. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or 
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original 
message.

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Re: [PSES] UL Follow Up Service vs CIG Inspection

[Kortas, Jamison]

This struck me as funny:  “unpublished requirements that are implied” – is it 
any wonder we all have so many questions?!

☺

Happy New Year!

Jamison

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2017 1:29 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] UL Follow Up Service vs CIG Inspection



Hi Vincent:

As near as I can tell, FUS is for the equipment, CIG is for the factory.

If the factory doesn’t meet the unpublished requirements that are implied in 
the CIG, then there is some doubt that the factory has sufficient control over 
the manufacturing process that the equipment will meet the FUS requirements.  
(A CSA inspector found CSA certification labels had spilled on the factory 
floor; our factory did not have sufficient control of the labels!)

With best wishes for the New Year,
Rich


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>

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http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/
 can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.

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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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formats), large files, etc.

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Re: [PSES] UL Go?

[Kortas, Jamison]

So, the question then becomes, for the many of us who have more work that 
people, who are your trusted go-to partners for help on requirements, 
interpretations (legal or otherwise), and execution on behalf of your company?

I am always on the lookout for good help as well as best practices and 
benchmarking opportunities.

Thanks,

Jamison

From: Pete Perkins [mailto:0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org]
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 6:46 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] UL Go?

Peter et al,

I also have some not so fulfilling experience with UL GMA.

Seems to me it is rather a less expensive lottery-ticket option 
to using this service.

Not to say that GMA hasn't learned a thing or two in chasing 
country requirements as time goes along.

:>) br,  Pete

Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
PO Box 23427
Tigard, ORe  97281-3427

503/452-1201

p.perk...@ieee.org<mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org>

From: Peter Tarver [mailto:ptar...@enphaseenergy.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 4:50 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] UL Go?

My experience to date is that UL only has knowledge being advertised below for 
only specific product categories/countries/markets. I have witnessed/heard 
claims of expertise that when it comes time to take action, they know less than 
the client does.

When asked to provide a list of competencies relative to several countries' 
requirements for grid compliance of distributed generators, we received an 
exorbitant quote for UL to research their own capabilities.

I have been less than impressed so far with such claims of aid, so I'm 
reluctant to entertain a subscription service.


Peter Tarver

From: Kortas, Jamison [mailto:jamison.kor...@ecolab.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 09:04
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] UL Go?

Has anyone taken a look at this? It was just sent to me by my UL representative.

Here is the text, as I do not think I can send an attachment:

UL-Go
For more information, contact us today at g...@ul.com<mailto:g...@ul.com>
What is UL-Go?
UL-Go is an online subscription service created to solve your problems for 
finding
current, correct and complete Global Market Access (GMA) regulatory requirements
that apply to your products for the countries you're selling or wish to sell to.
What GMA Information is provided in UL-Go?
In partnership with UL, UL-Go can be customized to meet your company's
specific needs.
* This means you tell us the products, countries and regulations you want access
to, and we'll provide you with in-effect regulations (updated quarterly) as 
well as
updates on developing requirements.*
* We provide you with the expertly organized information you'll need to 
understand
the impacts each regulation has on your product, country by country.
Is UL-Go a new Service Offering?
Yes, UL-Go is a pilot product launched with comprehensive regulatory 
information and great features and functionality. As a pilot
participant, you can help us develop UL-Go in a way that will deliver even more 
value to you!
Partner with UL
Identify your most important needs, and help validate our solutions.
* What's first on your list? Do you to know the GMA services UL provides or do 
you need mobile alerts or do you want collaborations
spaces that will help you get to your markets faster?
* We've got the basics right - now let's get the interactions right!
Are there additional benefits to subscribing to UL-Go?
* You can make side-by-side comparisons for up to three countries 
simultaneously.
* You can download, print or share results easily and bookmark your favorite 
searches.
* Your global staff can have unlimited access to GMA information they can have 
confidence in.
What does it cost to subscribe to UL-Go?
* Each subscription will be quoted separately based on your selections.
* UL-Go is a customizable subscription-you select the countries and products 
you want access to for the regulations you need most.
What if I want only a one-time delivery of the latest regulatory requirements?
We're happy to provide one-time GMA research to you at any time. Just select 
the products and countries you are interested in receiving
regulation information about, and we will provide you with a quote for services.
UL and the UL logo are trademarks of UL LLC (c) 2016

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This message 

Re: [PSES] Public view of this email server?

[Kortas, Jamison]

Ah! Thanks!

-Jamison

From: Dan Roman [mailto:danp...@verizon.net]
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2016 7:34 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Public view of this email server?

See the footer attached to every message:

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 Original message 
From: "Kortas, Jamison" 
<jamison.kor...@ecolab.com<mailto:jamison.kor...@ecolab.com>>
Date: 11/21/16 1:43 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] Public view of this email server?
Hi All,

Maybe I am the only one who didn’t know this, but I found a thread in which I 
had I participated in a Google search. I did not know these emails were public 
in some way, at least enough to be found and indexed by Google.

Just an FYI.

The thread I found: 
https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/msg72464.html

-Jamison
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[PSES] Public view of this email server?

[Kortas, Jamison]

Hi All,

Maybe I am the only one who didn’t know this, but I found a thread in which I 
had I participated in a Google search. I did not know these emails were public 
in some way, at least enough to be found and indexed by Google.

Just an FYI.

The thread I found: 
https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/msg72464.html

-Jamison

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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
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Re: [PSES] Paper Manuals?

[Kortas, Jamison]

Well, at some point hey moved away from stone tablets, so there is hope!

Thanks,

Jamison

From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 12:37 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Paper Manuals?

There is also the issue, which I know has surfaced in at least one safety 
standards committee, that people simply won't bother to download a manual, get 
into possibly dangerous areas and then sue, on the basis that only words on 
paper (parchment, vellum, clay and stone tablets) are recognized in law.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.jmwa.demon.co.uk_=DgMFaQ=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY=-gD4d9y0Yoglbd_OFwP83YsBeYwlkckJSSsw0ACOSMA=HkGIC9j5IoUb0YarDb0g-XjeZT7w1mp-M_Nuus1BPpY=>
 J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Sylvae in aeternum manent.

From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com]
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 6:12 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] Paper Manuals?

I haven’t tried in a while but at the time - 10 years ago and got the same 
mixed results you appear to have gotten. When pressed about the only reason 
they could give me was concern was that not all people have access to computers 
etc.  to read the manual even if given a disc in the shipping container nor 
could they even go on line to find the manual on a web site. I suppose that 
might still be the case and kind of a tough argument to defeat in the extreme 
but it doesn’t match the changing reality of interconnectedness. Especially for 
professionals. By the way I Just bought an expensive spectrum analyzer and 
everything, operation manual, compliance and safety etc. was either on disc or 
website. Maybe lab equipment allows electronic everything I don’t know because 
I don’t have the standard.

If you happen to have competitive equipment you can always ask why they are 
being selective in their decision or claim previously accept constructions. But 
you are going to have to push the issue up hill. The poor sole evaluating the 
equipment is often blocked by the simple black and white of the issue, that 
doesn’t mean he has the ultimate authority on it. Reviewers and managers above 
them have the ability to alter decisions. Should they be able to, that’s 
another question.

Gary

From: Kortas, Jamison [mailto:jamison.kor...@ecolab.com]
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 9:05 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [PSES] Paper Manuals?

Good Morning,

Has anyone had any success in getting standards writers and/or evaluation 
organizations to accept an electronic version of a manual as an equivalent 
alternative to a paper version even when the standard refers to a paper manual? 
 I am getting mixed signals from various individuals within organizations and 
wanted to pool ask the group for any insight.

I would think, particularly for equipment that is installed by trained 
professionals and not lay people, there might be an appetite for this sort of 
change.

Thanks,

Jamison
-


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Re: [PSES] Paper Manuals?

[Kortas, Jamison]

Thanks Pete,

In one of the standards we use frequently (UL 921), a printed manual is called 
out specifically:

“16.1 Each dishwasher shall be accompanied by printed instructions stated in 
clearly understandable
language, which separately cover dishwasher installation and user operation and 
maintenance. These
instructions are to be included in an installation manual, an operator’s 
manual, or both.”

I know that one route is to address it within the development process for the 
individual standard, but sometimes when technology outpaces a standard, the 
organization will address the issue prior to making formal changes to 
standards. Plus, we list to 15+ standards, so we’d prefer a broader approach.

Thanks,

Jamison

From: Pete Perkins [mailto:peperkin...@cs.com]
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 12:00 PM
To: Kortas, Jamison 
<jamison.kor...@ecolab.com<mailto:jamison.kor...@ecolab.com>>; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: RE: [PSES] Paper Manuals?

Jamison, et al,

It’s less the responsibility of the standards writing 
organization to dictate the manual paper or electronic rather to indicate 
clearly what information is required to be provided to the user to ensure that 
the product can safely be installed and operated by the user.

It’s more the responsibility of the certifier to insist that 
the information provided be adequate to inform the installer and user in safe 
practice.

This division of responsibility allows for differences to exist 
for equipments which are installed and operated by folks with different skill 
levels – more detail for less trained users.

Both are used today in many products.  Typically there is 
insistence on the need for clear, concise installation instructions (quite 
often called a quick start guide) including the hazard warnings on paper.  This 
is not unreasonable, in my opinion.

:>) br,  Pete

Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
PO Box 23427
Tigard, ORe  97281-3427

503/452-1201

p.perk...@ieee.org<mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org>

From: Kortas, Jamison [mailto:jamison.kor...@ecolab.com]
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 9:05 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] Paper Manuals?

Good Morning,

Has anyone had any success in getting standards writers and/or evaluation 
organizations to accept an electronic version of a manual as an equivalent 
alternative to a paper version even when the standard refers to a paper manual? 
 I am getting mixed signals from various individuals within organizations and 
wanted to pool ask the group for any insight.

I would think, particularly for equipment that is installed by trained 
professionals and not lay people, there might be an appetite for this sort of 
change.

Thanks,

Jamison
-


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[PSES] Paper Manuals?

[Kortas, Jamison]

Good Morning,

Has anyone had any success in getting standards writers and/or evaluation 
organizations to accept an electronic version of a manual as an equivalent 
alternative to a paper version even when the standard refers to a paper manual? 
 I am getting mixed signals from various individuals within organizations and 
wanted to pool ask the group for any insight.

I would think, particularly for equipment that is installed by trained 
professionals and not lay people, there might be an appetite for this sort of 
change.

Thanks,

Jamison

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes

[Kortas, Jamison]

Doug- Thanks very much for this.

Within this group, I often get responses before the initial email, so I missed 
this one the first time through. Two questions:


1.   Is it safe to say that the same definitions hold true for immunity as 
well?

2.   Would the following statements be true as well?

Original Statement: If a location is fed from its own substation and there are 
no dwellings supplied from that substation, it’s an industrial location, and 
therefore Class A.

a.   If a location is not fed from its own substation, but there are no 
dwellings supplied from that substation, it’s not an industrial location, and 
therefore Class B.

b.   If a location is fed from its own substation and there are dwellings 
supplied from that substation, it’s not an industrial location, and therefore 
Class B.

Without knowing the details of every installation, is there a relatively simple 
way of categorizing types of buildings that would be fed by its own substation, 
for example?


Thanks,

Jamison

From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@ieee.org]
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 11:25 AM
To: Kortas, Jamison <jamison.kor...@ecolab.com>
Cc: IEEE EMC PSTC <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for 
EMC testing purposes

My understanding has always been based on the Class and Group designations in 
CISPR 11 / EN 55011 for ISM equipment (based on the 2009 edition):

5.3 Division into classes
Class A equipment is equipment suitable for use in all establishments other 
than domestic and
those directly connected to a low voltage power supply network which supplies 
buildings used
for domestic purposes.

Class A equipment shall meet class A limits.
Warning: Class A equipment is intended for use in an industrial environment. In 
the
documentation for the user, a statement shall be included drawing attention to 
the fact that
there may be potential difficulties in ensuring electromagnetic compatibility 
in other
environments, due to conducted as well as radiated disturbances.
Class B equipment is equipment suitable for use in domestic establishments and 
in
establishments directly connected to a low voltage power supply network which 
supplies
buildings used for domestic purposes.
Class B equipment shall meet class B limits.

The key in all of this is the source of power supply for the equipment. If the 
equipment is supplied from mains that are shared with domestic establishments, 
then it must meet Class B requirements IMO.

If the equipment is intended for industrial use, i.e., Class A, where the power 
supply from the mains is not shared with domestic establishments, then Class A 
performance is acceptable.

The deciding factor is the sharing of the supply with domestic establishments. 
If a location is fed from its own substation and there are no dwellings 
supplied from that substation, it’s an industrial location, and therefore Class 
A.

Doug Nix
d...@ieee.org<mailto:d...@ieee.org>
+1 (519) 729-5704

On 18-Oct-16, at 08:44, Kortas, Jamison 
<jamison.kor...@ecolab.com<mailto:jamison.kor...@ecolab.com>> wrote:

Good Morning,

What do you use for criteria when reviewing the intended environment in which a 
device will be placed to determine if it is industrial or non-industrial? I 
have seen and read varying opinions on what criteria to use.

It ranges from a transformer isolated factory to the nature of the other 
products in the immediate vicinity (a mechanical room in a grocery store = 
industrial due to the equipment in its immediate environment).

I am familiar with some of the definitions in places, but am not so sure that 
those are what are typically followed in practice.

I appreciate any thoughts.

Thank you.


-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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 can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.
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Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes

[Kortas, Jamison]

Thanks all – at least I am not the only one unsure.

I am trying to establish a set of criteria that I can ask our engineers and 
marketers that will determine the classification. A decision tree, if you will. 
 This arose from a device that met the less stringent criteria, but not the 
more stringent and then what to do. To prevent the need to debate this topic 
over and over, I was hoping to establish a go forward approach.  Ideally, that 
approach would be “design for both industrial AND non-industrial and be done 
with it.” However, other factors are at play than just my druthers.

-Jamison

From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 12:44 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for 
EMC testing purposes

For Europe, the sources are the Generic standards, which are substantially 
consistent with CISPR 11.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.jmwa.demon.co.uk_=DQMFaQ=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY=YBc-OAqaIXpaBu7LDEilUSP7k5HwjSK9Dpuedr-cf0o=Tw7R0rvcEmoCGo36ftzkzv1jvoR_Bk-evzNbxvU8NuM=>
 J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Sylvae in aeternum manent.

From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@ieee.org]
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 5:25 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for 
EMC testing purposes

My understanding has always been based on the Class and Group designations in 
CISPR 11 / EN 55011 for ISM equipment (based on the 2009 edition):

5.3 Division into classes
Class A equipment is equipment suitable for use in all establishments other 
than domestic and
those directly connected to a low voltage power supply network which supplies 
buildings used
for domestic purposes.

Class A equipment shall meet class A limits.
Warning: Class A equipment is intended for use in an industrial environment. In 
the
documentation for the user, a statement shall be included drawing attention to 
the fact that
there may be potential difficulties in ensuring electromagnetic compatibility 
in other
environments, due to conducted as well as radiated disturbances.
Class B equipment is equipment suitable for use in domestic establishments and 
in
establishments directly connected to a low voltage power supply network which 
supplies
buildings used for domestic purposes.
Class B equipment shall meet class B limits.

The key in all of this is the source of power supply for the equipment. If the 
equipment is supplied from mains that are shared with domestic establishments, 
then it must meet Class B requirements IMO.

If the equipment is intended for industrial use, i.e., Class A, where the power 
supply from the mains is not shared with domestic establishments, then Class A 
performance is acceptable.

The deciding factor is the sharing of the supply with domestic establishments. 
If a location is fed from its own substation and there are no dwellings 
supplied from that substation, it’s an industrial location, and therefore Class 
A.

Doug Nix
d...@ieee.org<mailto:d...@ieee.org>
+1 (519) 729-5704

On 18-Oct-16, at 08:44, Kortas, Jamison 
<jamison.kor...@ecolab.com<mailto:jamison.kor...@ecolab.com>> wrote:

Good Morning,

What do you use for criteria when reviewing the intended environment in which a 
device will be placed to determine if it is industrial or non-industrial? I 
have seen and read varying opinions on what criteria to use.

It ranges from a transformer isolated factory to the nature of the other 
products in the immediate vicinity (a mechanical room in a grocery store = 
industrial due to the equipment in its immediate environment).

I am familiar with some of the definitions in places, but am not so sure that 
those are what are typically followed in practice.

I appreciate any thoughts.

Thank you.


-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes

[Kortas, Jamison]

Thank you -

In your example of lifts or a/c it would need to comply with the more 
restrictive criteria (residential for emissions and industrial for immunity) 
even though the location may itself not be powered by low-voltage supply. The 
devices I am working with would not be considered fixed installations, as an 
elevator would be, so it isn't apples to apples, but disregarding that 
difference, any idea?

Also, what about a large shopping mall? Or are there different types of 
environments within the shopping mall: i.e., mechanical room with boilers, 
HVAC, etc. and stores, walkways, etc.?

Thanks,

-Jamison

From: John Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 10:31 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for 
EMC testing purposes

You often get heavy electrical machinery in residential, light commercial and 
hospital (etc.) (especially multi-story) premises - think local power 
transformers, air-conditioning systems, lifts/elevators, water/sewage pumping 
equipment, etc - and that can (and has certainly been seen to) affect domestic, 
IT and medical electronic equipment in those premises.

It's the end-use environment that is (or should be) the determining factor in 
deciding with which category of requirements the EUT must comply.

John E Allen
W.London, UK

From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: 18 October 2016 16:10
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for 
EMC testing purposes

No, because light industry premises are often very close to residential 
premises, get power from the low-voltage supply and broadcast receivers can be 
much closer than 30 m (the assumption for emission limit purposes is 10 m, but 
of course they could be even closer).

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.jmwa.demon.co.uk_=DQMFAg=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY=l525G496siNA_QwQ5lxfDPu6vxscfAjpp_PeJN5-qcg=>
 J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Sylvae in aeternum manent.

From: Schmidt, Mark [mailto:markschm...@xrite.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 3:57 PM
To: John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com<mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com>>; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: RE: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for 
EMC testing purposes

Hi John,

Would this be applicable for Light Industrial equipment as well?

Thank you.

From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 10:49 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for 
EMC testing purposes

For Europe, 'industry' means heavy industry - large machines, high-power 
electrical installation, not powered from the public low-voltage supply. No 
broadcast radio or TV receivers likely to be within 30 metres.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.jmwa.demon.co.uk_=DQMFAg=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-gaRnQXk=GjhSKIL3JsS7U0_q6lCXxHNYbr7GFcQHvQHPwZ7r0vM=>
 J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Sylvae in aeternum manent.

From: Kortas, Jamison [mailto:jamison.kor...@ecolab.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 1:45 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC 
testing purposes

Good Morning,

What do you use for criteria when reviewing the intended environment in which a 
device will be placed to determine if it is industrial or non-industrial? I 
have seen and read varying opinions on what criteria to use.

It ranges from a transformer isolated factory to the nature of the other 
products in the immediate vicinity (a mechanical room in a grocery store = 
industrial due to the equipment in its immediate environment).

I am familiar with some of the definitions in places, but am not so sure that 
those are what are typically followed in practice.

I appreciate any thoughts.

Thank you.


-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_emc

[PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes

[Kortas, Jamison]

Good Morning,

What do you use for criteria when reviewing the intended environment in which a 
device will be placed to determine if it is industrial or non-industrial? I 
have seen and read varying opinions on what criteria to use.

It ranges from a transformer isolated factory to the nature of the other 
products in the immediate vicinity (a mechanical room in a grocery store = 
industrial due to the equipment in its immediate environment).

I am familiar with some of the definitions in places, but am not so sure that 
those are what are typically followed in practice.

I appreciate any thoughts.

Thank you.



-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Counterfeit tracking

[Kortas, Jamison]

Understood. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something - like the 
php board mentioned in an earlier email. 

Thanks,

Jamison

-Original Message-
From: dward [mailto:dw...@pctestlab.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 10:38 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Counterfeit tracking

It has served the community well.  As the old saying goes - if it aint broke, 
don't fix it.

​
Dennis Ward
This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST 
Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the 
recipient(s) named above.  It may contain information that is confidential 
and/or legally privileged.  Any unauthorized use that may compromise that 
confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited.  Please notify 
the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete 
it from your computer system.  Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business 
related activities is strictly prohibited.  No warranty is made that the e-mail 
or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect.  Thank you.

-Original Message-
From: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen [mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl]
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 7:14 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Counterfeit tracking

Well there is LinkedIn , this group has some representation there.

IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society (PSES) 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.linkedin.com_groups_75652=DQIDaQ=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY=mPdbAmMzOTuyvxLqKdnY0pst_WqMyhkvKx9YHlunCTQ=SUD-pLNRd6Prorglgi1fsLxjERyPBegB3hXxCcuXZSc=
But it's not covering these discussions  (of course).

For those of use interested in an EMC LinkedIn group...
EMC Experts
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.linkedin.com_groups_1784463=DQIDaQ=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY=mPdbAmMzOTuyvxLqKdnY0pst_WqMyhkvKx9YHlunCTQ=2wCi0jLp2FazRl3SzGkLyrdIv1yTC6z8jk-ZM5JHbn4=
 

I happen to be the owner, so this is a flagrant pub
But this group is virtually spam / promotion free.

Regards,

Ing. Gert Gremmen
Approvals manager



+ ce marking of electrical/electronic equipment Independent Consultancy 
+ Services Compliance Testing and Design for CE marking
 according to EC-directives:
- Electro Magnetic Compatibility 2004/108/EC
- Electrical Safety 2006/95/EC
- Medical Devices 93/42/EC
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+ Improvement of Product Quality and Reliability testing Education

Web:www.cetest.nl (English) 
Phone :  +31 10 415 24 26
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-Original Message-
From: Kortas, Jamison [mailto:jamison.kor...@ecolab.com]
Sent: Wednesday 28 September 2016 15:21
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Counterfeit tracking

On an unrelated note - is there another way to interact with this community 
other than through emails? Is there a board, or something somewhere? 

Thanks,

Jamison

-Original Message-
From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 8:30 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Counterfeit tracking

There have been some consistency problems with this service, probably from 
usage of direct CSS url links and/or my stupid brute-force script, so my 
simple-minded approach is to have my crawler run the login(which has changed 
several times), then resolve the href-tagged links, then go from there to each 
notification page. Could be done manually, but all hail the power of 
beautifulsoup.

Have not used for very long time, but so far does seem to be a decent source of 
global regulatory information.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: Kortas, Jamison [mailto:jamison.kor...@ecolab.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 4:23 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Counterfeit tracking

Hopefully - I am doing this right - this is my first post.

I recently found Notify U.S. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tsapps.nist.gov_notifyus_data_home_home.cfm=DQIDaQ=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4

Re: [PSES] Counterfeit tracking

[Kortas, Jamison]

On an unrelated note - is there another way to interact with this community 
other than through emails? Is there a board, or something somewhere? 

Thanks,

Jamison

-Original Message-
From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 8:30 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Counterfeit tracking

There have been some consistency problems with this service, probably from 
usage of direct CSS url links and/or my stupid brute-force script, so my 
simple-minded approach is to have my crawler run the login(which has changed 
several times), then resolve the href-tagged links, then go from there to each 
notification page. Could be done manually, but all hail the power of 
beautifulsoup.

Have not used for very long time, but so far does seem to be a decent source of 
global regulatory information.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: Kortas, Jamison [mailto:jamison.kor...@ecolab.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 4:23 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Counterfeit tracking

Hopefully - I am doing this right - this is my first post.

I recently found Notify U.S. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tsapps.nist.gov_notifyus_data_home_home.cfm=DQIDaQ=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY=IReRG-UxkmrJ8pyfltBE4hphRlWOTXCfdP53vklA2x4=urX8Yhg2scOT-Og6yRG5v1sZ5EbS7Klt5JP3l2bKbBU=
   which is run by the NIST in the Dept. Of Commerce and it notifies me of 
anything published by the WTO an others. You can filter it by field of interest 
and country. It is quite informative and free.

Here are the "fields of interest":

65  Agriculture
 49  Aircraft and Space Vehicle Engineering
 71  Chemical Technology
 93  Civil Engineering
 61  Clothing Industry
 CA  Conformity Assessment Procedures
 91  Construction Materials and Building
 97  Domestic and Commercial Equipment. Entertainment. Sports
 29  Electrical Engineering
 31  Electronics
 27  Energy and Heat Transfer Engineering
 13  Environment. Health Protection. Safety
 23  Fluid Systems and Components for General Use Measurement of fluid flow, 
see 17.120
 67  Food Technology
 01  Generalities. Terminology. Standardization. Documentation
 81  Glass and Ceramics Industries
 11  Health Care Technology
 37  Image Technology
 35  Information Technology. Office Machines
 25  Manufacturing Engineering
This field includes standards for general use
 53  Materials Handling Equipment
 07  Mathematics. Natural Sciences
 21  Mechanical Systems and Components for General Use
 77  Metallurgy
 95  Military Engineering
 73  Mining and Minerals
 55  Packaging and Distribution of Goods
 87  Paint and Colour Industries
 85  Paper Technology
 75  Petroleum and Related Technologies
 17  Physical Metrology and Measurement. Physical Phenomena
 39  Precision Mechanics. Jewellery
 45  Railway Engineering
 43  Road Vehicle Engineering
 83  Rubber and Plastics Industries
 47  Shipbuilding and Marine Structures
 03  Sociology. Services. Company Organization and Management. Administration. 
Transport
 33  Telecommunications. Audio and Video Engineering
 19  Testing
This field includes standards for general use only Analytical chemistry, see 
71.040
 59  Textile and Leather Technology
 79  Wood Technology

Thanks,

-Jamison

-Original Message-
From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 2:53 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Counterfeit tracking

Thanks, I'll check out DuckDuckGo, it sounds like it may have possibilities.  

I have looked at rss aggregators in the past.  It's kind of hard to find one 
that consolidates similar postings in multiple locations.  This also may be 
worth another look.

All the best. Doug. 


  Original Message
From: oconne...@tamuracorp.com
Sent: September 27, 2016 1:39 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Reply-to: oconne...@tamuracorp.com
Subject: Re: [PSES] Counterfeit tracking

Distill will monitor selected pages, but is not very selective. And indiscrete 
browser plugins are not good for a corporate computer. You still need something 
to traverse the web and find new/alternate regulatory information. Related - 
there are commercial aggregation services for compliance engineers for $$$. And 
as for 'keywords' much of the SEO gaming will not allow a simplistic parsing 
for words or phrases to return reliable data sets.

Prefer the API for DuckDuckGo (duckduckgo.com/api) for search and url 
traversals, and if you wanna play code monkey, relatively easy to write 
'focused' crawlers that feed into parsers. My stuff is based on the common 
Python libs BeautifulSoup and scrapy. But this type of solution is useless to 
those not having a basic understanding of the insanity buried in a site's 
html/css/xml stuff.

The most common 'off-the-shelf' solutions, where there is no desire to code 
monkey, are to simply set up your mail client to suck on selected RSS feeds, or 
use 

Re: [PSES] Counterfeit tracking

[Kortas, Jamison]

Hopefully - I am doing this right - this is my first post.

I recently found Notify U.S. 
https://tsapps.nist.gov/notifyus/data/home/home.cfm  which is run by the NIST 
in the Dept. Of Commerce and it notifies me of anything published by the WTO an 
others. You can filter it by field of interest and country. It is quite 
informative and free.

Here are the "fields of interest":

65  Agriculture
 49  Aircraft and Space Vehicle Engineering
 71  Chemical Technology
 93  Civil Engineering
 61  Clothing Industry
 CA  Conformity Assessment Procedures
 91  Construction Materials and Building
 97  Domestic and Commercial Equipment. Entertainment. Sports
 29  Electrical Engineering
 31  Electronics
 27  Energy and Heat Transfer Engineering
 13  Environment. Health Protection. Safety
 23  Fluid Systems and Components for General Use
Measurement of fluid flow, see 17.120
 67  Food Technology
 01  Generalities. Terminology. Standardization. Documentation
 81  Glass and Ceramics Industries
 11  Health Care Technology
 37  Image Technology
 35  Information Technology. Office Machines
 25  Manufacturing Engineering
This field includes standards for general use
 53  Materials Handling Equipment
 07  Mathematics. Natural Sciences
 21  Mechanical Systems and Components for General Use
 77  Metallurgy
 95  Military Engineering
 73  Mining and Minerals
 55  Packaging and Distribution of Goods
 87  Paint and Colour Industries
 85  Paper Technology
 75  Petroleum and Related Technologies
 17  Physical Metrology and Measurement. Physical Phenomena
 39  Precision Mechanics. Jewellery
 45  Railway Engineering
 43  Road Vehicle Engineering
 83  Rubber and Plastics Industries
 47  Shipbuilding and Marine Structures
 03  Sociology. Services. Company Organization and Management. Administration. 
Transport
 33  Telecommunications. Audio and Video Engineering
 19  Testing
This field includes standards for general use only
Analytical chemistry, see 71.040
 59  Textile and Leather Technology
 79  Wood Technology

Thanks,

-Jamison

-Original Message-
From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 2:53 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Counterfeit tracking

Thanks, I'll check out DuckDuckGo, it sounds like it may have possibilities.  

I have looked at rss aggregators in the past.  It's kind of hard to find one 
that consolidates similar postings in multiple locations.  This also may be 
worth another look.

All the best. Doug. 


  Original Message
From: oconne...@tamuracorp.com
Sent: September 27, 2016 1:39 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Reply-to: oconne...@tamuracorp.com
Subject: Re: [PSES] Counterfeit tracking

Distill will monitor selected pages, but is not very selective. And indiscrete 
browser plugins are not good for a corporate computer. You still need something 
to traverse the web and find new/alternate regulatory information. Related - 
there are commercial aggregation services for compliance engineers for $$$. And 
as for 'keywords' much of the SEO gaming will not allow a simplistic parsing 
for words or phrases to return reliable data sets.

Prefer the API for DuckDuckGo (duckduckgo.com/api) for search and url 
traversals, and if you wanna play code monkey, relatively easy to write 
'focused' crawlers that feed into parsers. My stuff is based on the common 
Python libs BeautifulSoup and scrapy. But this type of solution is useless to 
those not having a basic understanding of the insanity buried in a site's 
html/css/xml stuff.

The most common 'off-the-shelf' solutions, where there is no desire to code 
monkey, are to simply set up your mail client to suck on selected RSS feeds, or 
use some other feed aggregator. Many sites used the recently discontinued Yahoo 
Pipes, so there may be blinky data streams for some pages for a few more weeks.

Make life easier? As my gunny used to say, "life is supposed to be hard, and 
then you die..."

Brian


From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 10:43 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Counterfeit tracking

Hi all,

I suspect there are many compliance engineers that do what I do.  Once in a 
while I skim the various public notices web pages for the major certifying 
agencies to see if there is anything i should be aware of, although I am not 
very diligent about this.  I did find a collection of public notice pages and 
setup my web browser do the checking with the Distil app 
(https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__distill.io_=DQIDaQ=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY=7QAVK8sQSuPDqZwUcSTjAhEEXqD8m4YKi7S5zSYVhac=sWEdW2ZS04aEuGoUxN2Npy5aUuh8R3jyR_oMV_YwIfM=
 ).  Alternatively if something suspicious shows up, a quick Google search with 
a few well conditioned keywords will sometimes bear fruit.

I was wondering if there are any resources available that provide a keyword 
searchable digest of all these diverse sources.  It