Re: [PSES] Harmonised standards

[Gert Gremmen]

Hi Brain

Method #1 and #2 are equivalent (if the were the same standard):

#2 list 3 documents that -once merged- form one harmonised standard

#1 list the original standard plus  the applicable harmonised amendment


Method 3 is not recommended IMHO.

Gert gremmen

On 24-8-2022 21:48, Brian Kunde wrote:
This topic goes a little deeper, I think.  Question being, how are the 
harmonized standards to be listed on your DoC?


It appears to me that the Commission lists standards a couple 
different ways, which adds to the confusion. For example, on the EMCD 
Harmonized Standards list, it shows it one way as:


Method #1
EN 16361:2013+A1:2016

but then for another standard shows it this way:

Method #2
EN 50065-2-1:2003, EN 50065-2-1:2003/A1:2005, EN 50065-2-1:2003/AC:2003

Using the first method, the above could be listed as

Method #1
EN 50065-2-1:2003+AC:2033+A1:2005

I thought we had a discussion a year or so ago where the plus sign "+" 
was to be replaced by the slash "/".  If that is true, then the above 
could be listed as:


Method #3
EN 50065-2-1:2003/AC:2033/A1:2005

But this method could be technically confusing thinking you are using 
only the amendment to show compliance. Yet, we all know what 
this really means, right?.


So, which is correct?  Does it really matter?  Using method #2 above 
is probably the most correct, but it is very long.  I prefer method #1 
or #3 because it is shorter and gets the point across.


Comments?

The Other Brian






On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 11:59 AM Scott Xe  wrote:

Hi Gert,

Thanks for your useful reply!  The EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020
contains the corrigendum only, no any technical changes.  Does AC
have another condition to qualify for?

Will arrange some time for visiting the CENELEC site.

Best regards,

Scott

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 at 21:38, Gert Gremmen 
wrote:

Hi Scott,

No only the :

EN 55032 : 2017  is the Harmonised Standard (1 documnet)
EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020  is the (Harmonised) amendment only
(1 dcoument)

Both documents are needed. (did not check the OJ for you)

EN 55032 : 2017+A11 : 2020  is both documents together.

AC stands for Corrigendum, most used for plain error, typos
,wrong
references etc.

There is lots of info on the site of CENELEC on these
subjects. Worth so
spent an afternoon.

Gert Gremmen

On 24-8-2022 15:06, Scott Xe wrote:
> EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020
>
-- 
Independent Expert on CE marking

EMC Consultant
Electrical Safety Consultant

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Re: [PSES] Harmonised standards

[Scott Xe]

Hi Brian,

Good explanation!  We use the method #1 that to be interpreted correctly by
most of readers.  The symbol of forward slash means the only amendment may
not be known by all.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 at 03:49, Brian Kunde  wrote:

> This topic goes a little deeper, I think.  Question being, how are the
> harmonized standards to be listed on your DoC?
>
> It appears to me that the Commission lists standards a couple different
> ways, which adds to the confusion. For example, on the EMCD Harmonized
> Standards list, it shows it one way as:
>
> Method #1
> EN 16361:2013+A1:2016
>
> but then for another standard shows it this way:
>
> Method #2
> EN 50065-2-1:2003, EN 50065-2-1:2003/A1:2005, EN 50065-2-1:2003/AC:2003
>
> Using the first method, the above could be listed as
>
> Method #1
> EN 50065-2-1:2003+AC:2033+A1:2005
>
> I thought we had a discussion a year or so ago where the plus sign "+" was
> to be replaced by the slash "/".  If that is true, then the above could be
> listed as:
>
> Method #3
> EN 50065-2-1:2003/AC:2033/A1:2005
>
> But this method could be technically confusing thinking you are using only
> the amendment to show compliance. Yet, we all know what
> this really means, right?.
>
> So, which is correct?  Does it really matter?  Using method #2 above is
> probably the most correct, but it is very long.  I prefer method #1 or #3
> because it is shorter and gets the point across.
>
> Comments?
>
> The Other Brian
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 11:59 AM Scott Xe  wrote:
>
>> Hi Gert,
>>
>> Thanks for your useful reply!  The EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020 contains
>> the corrigendum only, no any technical changes.  Does AC have another
>> condition to qualify for?
>>
>> Will arrange some time for visiting the CENELEC site.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 at 21:38, Gert Gremmen  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Scott,
>>>
>>> No only the :
>>>
>>> EN 55032 : 2017  is the Harmonised Standard (1 documnet)
>>> EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020  is the (Harmonised) amendment only (1
>>> dcoument)
>>>
>>> Both documents are needed. (did not check the OJ for you)
>>>
>>> EN 55032 : 2017+A11 : 2020  is both documents together.
>>>
>>> AC stands for Corrigendum, most used for plain error, typos ,wrong
>>> references etc.
>>>
>>> There is lots of info on the site of CENELEC on these subjects. Worth so
>>> spent an afternoon.
>>>
>>> Gert Gremmen
>>>
>>> On 24-8-2022 15:06, Scott Xe wrote:
>>> > EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020
>>> >
>>> --
>>> Independent Expert on CE marking
>>> EMC Consultant
>>> Electrical Safety Consultant
>>>
>>> -
>>> 
>>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
>>> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail
>>> to 
>>>
>>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
>>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>>>
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>>> unsubscribe)
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>>> _
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>>>
>> -
>> 
>>
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Re: [PSES] Harmonised standards

[John Woodgate]

Method  1 is sensible and not confusing. Method 2 is a product of the 
mentality of the Town Hall clerk, who, having received a certificate 
that a person was alive in September to December 1999, demanded a 
certificate that the person was alive in June to August 1999. I would 
not recommend replacing the + sign by anything else.


==
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
It all depends



On 2022-08-24 20:48, Brian Kunde wrote:
This topic goes a little deeper, I think.  Question being, how are the 
harmonized standards to be listed on your DoC?


It appears to me that the Commission lists standards a couple 
different ways, which adds to the confusion. For example, on the EMCD 
Harmonized Standards list, it shows it one way as:


Method #1
EN 16361:2013+A1:2016

but then for another standard shows it this way:

Method #2
EN 50065-2-1:2003, EN 50065-2-1:2003/A1:2005, EN 50065-2-1:2003/AC:2003

Using the first method, the above could be listed as

Method #1
EN 50065-2-1:2003+AC:2033+A1:2005

I thought we had a discussion a year or so ago where the plus sign "+" 
was to be replaced by the slash "/".  If that is true, then the above 
could be listed as:


Method #3
EN 50065-2-1:2003/AC:2033/A1:2005

But this method could be technically confusing thinking you are using 
only the amendment to show compliance. Yet, we all know what 
this really means, right?.


So, which is correct?  Does it really matter?  Using method #2 above 
is probably the most correct, but it is very long.  I prefer method #1 
or #3 because it is shorter and gets the point across.


Comments?

The Other Brian






On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 11:59 AM Scott Xe  wrote:

Hi Gert,

Thanks for your useful reply!  The EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020
contains the corrigendum only, no any technical changes.  Does AC
have another condition to qualify for?

Will arrange some time for visiting the CENELEC site.

Best regards,

Scott

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 at 21:38, Gert Gremmen 
wrote:

Hi Scott,

No only the :

EN 55032 : 2017  is the Harmonised Standard (1 documnet)
EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020  is the (Harmonised) amendment only
(1 dcoument)

Both documents are needed. (did not check the OJ for you)

EN 55032 : 2017+A11 : 2020  is both documents together.

AC stands for Corrigendum, most used for plain error, typos
,wrong
references etc.

There is lots of info on the site of CENELEC on these
subjects. Worth so
spent an afternoon.

Gert Gremmen

On 24-8-2022 15:06, Scott Xe wrote:
> EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020
>
-- 
Independent Expert on CE marking

EMC Consultant
Electrical Safety Consultant

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Re: [PSES] Harmonised standards

[Brian Kunde]

This topic goes a little deeper, I think.  Question being, how are the
harmonized standards to be listed on your DoC?

It appears to me that the Commission lists standards a couple different
ways, which adds to the confusion. For example, on the EMCD Harmonized
Standards list, it shows it one way as:

Method #1
EN 16361:2013+A1:2016

but then for another standard shows it this way:

Method #2
EN 50065-2-1:2003, EN 50065-2-1:2003/A1:2005, EN 50065-2-1:2003/AC:2003

Using the first method, the above could be listed as

Method #1
EN 50065-2-1:2003+AC:2033+A1:2005

I thought we had a discussion a year or so ago where the plus sign "+" was
to be replaced by the slash "/".  If that is true, then the above could be
listed as:

Method #3
EN 50065-2-1:2003/AC:2033/A1:2005

But this method could be technically confusing thinking you are using only
the amendment to show compliance. Yet, we all know what
this really means, right?.

So, which is correct?  Does it really matter?  Using method #2 above is
probably the most correct, but it is very long.  I prefer method #1 or #3
because it is shorter and gets the point across.

Comments?

The Other Brian






On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 11:59 AM Scott Xe  wrote:

> Hi Gert,
>
> Thanks for your useful reply!  The EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020 contains the
> corrigendum only, no any technical changes.  Does AC have another condition
> to qualify for?
>
> Will arrange some time for visiting the CENELEC site.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Scott
>
> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 at 21:38, Gert Gremmen  wrote:
>
>> Hi Scott,
>>
>> No only the :
>>
>> EN 55032 : 2017  is the Harmonised Standard (1 documnet)
>> EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020  is the (Harmonised) amendment only (1
>> dcoument)
>>
>> Both documents are needed. (did not check the OJ for you)
>>
>> EN 55032 : 2017+A11 : 2020  is both documents together.
>>
>> AC stands for Corrigendum, most used for plain error, typos ,wrong
>> references etc.
>>
>> There is lots of info on the site of CENELEC on these subjects. Worth so
>> spent an afternoon.
>>
>> Gert Gremmen
>>
>> On 24-8-2022 15:06, Scott Xe wrote:
>> > EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020
>> >
>> --
>> Independent Expert on CE marking
>> EMC Consultant
>> Electrical Safety Consultant
>>
>> -
>> 
>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
>> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>>
>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>>
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>> unsubscribe)
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>>
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>> David Heald: 
>> _
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>>
> -
> 
>
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Re: [PSES] Harmonised standards

[Scott Xe]

Hi Gert,

Thanks for your useful reply!  The EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020 contains the
corrigendum only, no any technical changes.  Does AC have another condition
to qualify for?

Will arrange some time for visiting the CENELEC site.

Best regards,

Scott

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 at 21:38, Gert Gremmen  wrote:

> Hi Scott,
>
> No only the :
>
> EN 55032 : 2017  is the Harmonised Standard (1 documnet)
> EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020  is the (Harmonised) amendment only (1 dcoument)
>
> Both documents are needed. (did not check the OJ for you)
>
> EN 55032 : 2017+A11 : 2020  is both documents together.
>
> AC stands for Corrigendum, most used for plain error, typos ,wrong
> references etc.
>
> There is lots of info on the site of CENELEC on these subjects. Worth so
> spent an afternoon.
>
> Gert Gremmen
>
> On 24-8-2022 15:06, Scott Xe wrote:
> > EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020
> >
> --
> Independent Expert on CE marking
> EMC Consultant
> Electrical Safety Consultant
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
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> unsubscribe)
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Re: [PSES] Harmonised standards

[Gert Gremmen]

Hi Scott,

No only the :

EN 55032 : 2017  is the Harmonised Standard (1 documnet)
EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020  is the (Harmonised) amendment only (1 dcoument)

Both documents are needed. (did not check the OJ for you)

EN 55032 : 2017+A11 : 2020  is both documents together.

AC stands for Corrigendum, most used for plain error, typos ,wrong 
references etc.


There is lots of info on the site of CENELEC on these subjects. Worth so 
spent an afternoon.


Gert Gremmen

On 24-8-2022 15:06, Scott Xe wrote:

EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020


--
Independent Expert on CE marking
EMC Consultant
Electrical Safety Consultant

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begin:vcard
fn:Gert Gremmen
n:Gremmen;Gert
adr:;;Lieu Dit Pirot;Chauffailles;;71170;France
email;internet:g.grem...@cetest.nl
tel;cell:+33 7 84507010
note;quoted-printable:Independent Expert on CE marking =
	=0D=0A=
	Harmonised Standards (HAS-) Consultant @ European Commission for RED, LVD=
	 and EMC=0D=0A=
	EMC Consultant=0D=0A=
	Electrical Safety Consultant=0D=0A=
	
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[PSES] Harmonised standards

[Scott Xe]

Dear All,

I notice the reference number of the standard OJ is listed in OJ as below:-

EN 55032 : 2017,
EN 55032 : 2017/A11 : 2020

Does it mean that the EN 55032 : 2017 with or without A11 : 2020 is
acceptable as a harmonised standard?

Is /A11 : 2020 identical with +A11 : 2020?

EN 55032:2012/AC:2013

What does /AC mean?

Thanks and regards,

Scott

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Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards ->Official EU law

[Gert Gremmen]

Lost this question, for unknown reason:


"If the Commission concludes that the standard is in compliance with the 
request and Union legislation, it will decide to publish its reference 
in the Official Journal of the European Union. As a result, and 
following a Commission decision to publish the reference in the Official 
Journal, the standard _will produce legal effects under the relevant 
Union legislation._"


found in:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=COM%3A2018%3A764%3AFIN

An example standard:

COM(2018) 764

https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/european-standards/harmonised-standards/accessibility-websites-and-mobile-applications_en

And a press release:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-6491_en.htm


Gert Gremmen

On 29-1-2019 19:36, Rudd, Adam wrote:

Thank you,
Do you have a specific L###? That an update was published under. There are 
quite a few. and digging... but not seeing one with Harmonized Standards.

Adam Rudd
Senior Engineer, EMC Certification
NCR Corporation
O: 770.495.2825
adam.r...@ncr.com  |  www.ncr.com

-Original Message-
From: Gert Gremmen [mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl]
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 5:12 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Harmonised Standards ->Official EU law

*External Message* - Use caution before opening links or attachments

Note that publication/citation of harmonised standards in Europe from

now on (12/2018) will take place in the L section of the OJ, effectively

allowing them the status of EU -law. A first standard on Accessibility

of (governmental) Websites has already been published.



Gert Gremmen




--
Independent Expert on CE marking
Harmonised Standards (HAS-) Consultant @ European Commission for RED and EMC
EMC Consultant
Electrical Safety Consultant


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Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards ->Official EU law

[Rudd, Adam]

Thank you,
Do you have a specific L###? That an update was published under. There are 
quite a few. and digging... but not seeing one with Harmonized Standards.

Adam Rudd
Senior Engineer, EMC Certification
NCR Corporation
O: 770.495.2825
adam.r...@ncr.com  |  www.ncr.com

-Original Message-
From: Gert Gremmen [mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 5:12 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Harmonised Standards ->Official EU law

*External Message* - Use caution before opening links or attachments

Note that publication/citation of harmonised standards in Europe from 

now on (12/2018) will take place in the L section of the OJ, effectively 

allowing them the status of EU -law. A first standard on Accessibility 

of (governmental) Websites has already been published.



Gert Gremmen



-- 

Independent Expert on CE marking

Harmonised Standards (HAS-) Consultant @ European Commission for RED and EMC

EMC Consultant

Electrical Safety Consultant





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[PSES] Harmonised Standards ->Official EU law

[Gert Gremmen]

Note that publication/citation of harmonised standards in Europe from 
now on (12/2018) will take place in the L section of the OJ, effectively 
allowing them the status of EU -law. A first standard on Accessibility 
of (governmental) Websites has already been published.


Gert Gremmen

--
Independent Expert on CE marking
Harmonised Standards (HAS-) Consultant @ European Commission for RED and EMC
EMC Consultant
Electrical Safety Consultant


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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Charlie Blackham]

Monrad

I should have just put the shall apply from 20 April 2016 into bold, and not 
just the Annex.

 Please provide an official European Union (EU) document that confirms that 
 Declarations against these new Directives cannot be issued until 20 April 
 2016 as they have no legal standing until then.

I don't have it formally, but you can't legally declare compliance with 
something that is not in force at the time you sign it and  
http://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/electrical-engineering/directives/index_en.htm
 states

New LVD Directive 2014/35/EU
As of 20 April 2016, Directive 2006/95/EC will be repealed by the new LVD 
Directive 2014/35/EU. This directive is aligned to the New Legislative 
Framework policy. Nevertheless, Directive 2014/35/EU will keep the same scope 
and safety objectives as Directive 2006/95/EC.
And

New EMC Directive (2014/30/EU)
In February 2014, the European Parliament and Council issued a new EMC 
Directive  aligned to the New Legislative Framework. This new Directive will be 
applicable from 20 April 2016.

The new Directives have an article on repeal of the old directive - a similar 
clause is contained in 2011/65/EU which came into force in a planned way on 
2nd January 2013

Additionally, Lists of Harmonised Standards will not be published until close 
to the date in April, and whilst they're not mandatory, without them there can 
be no presumption of conformity

The main changes are to economic operators in the supply chain, and not to 
manufacturers, unless their products fall into scope of the Radio Equipment 
Directive and so move out of scope of EMC/LVD a little bit late in June 2016.

Regards
Charlie


From: Monrad Monsen [mailto:monrad.mon...@oracle.com]
Sent: 23 March 2015 22:31
To: Charlie Blackham
Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

Hi Charlie,
Please note that Annex I for both Directives lists the essential requirements.  
Annex I makes no mention of declarations of conformity (DOCs).  Again, the 
article addressing DOCs in each directive has not been identified with a 
delayed application.  Also, there is no essential requirement in the old 
directives that are contradicted in the new directives.  Hence, a product 
declared compliant to the new directives is automatically compliant with the 
old soon-to-be-repealed directives.

By the way, updates to the essential requirements are minor and actually 
provide more information.

  *   EMC Directive 2014/30/EU Annex I reduces the description of fixed 
installation requirements to the first sentence of what was in the old 
Directive 2004/108/EC Annex I section 2:  A fixed installation shall be 
installed applying good engineering practices and respecting the information on 
the intended use of its components, with a view to meeting the essential 
requirements set out in point 1.  The old Directive 2004/108/EC Annex I 
section 2 also adds Those good engineering practices shall be documented and 
the documentation shall be held by the person(s) responsible at the disposal of 
the relevant national authorities for inspection purposes for as long as the 
fixed installation is in operation.  This is really not appropriate to be 
listed as an EMC essential requirement.  The new EMC Directive 2014/30/EU 
correctly moves this statement to the last paragraph of Article 19 section 1 
because Article 19 is a whole article discussing the requirements unique to 
fixed installations.  Please note that other electrical equipment that are not 
fixed installations also have records retention requirements, and those records 
retention requirements were never listed in the essential requirements.
  *   Low Voltage Directive 2014/30/EU Annex I removes from the essential 
requirements one requirement that was in the old Directive 2006/95/EC Annex I 
section 1(c):  The brand name or the trade mark should be clearly printed on 
the electrical equipment or, where that is not possible, on the packaging.  
However, the new Low Voltage Directive 2014/30/EU still addresses this 
requirement but places this requirement in Article 6 section 6:  Manufacturers 
shall indicate on the electrical equipment their name, registered trade name or 
registered trade mark and the postal address at which they can be contracted 
or, where that is not possible, on its packaging or in a document accompanying 
the electrical equipment.

Again, if you comply with the new directives of 2014, then you also comply with 
the old soon-to-be-repealed directives.

Please provide an official European Union (EU) document that confirms that 
Declarations against these new Directives cannot be issued until 20 April 2016 
as they have no legal standing until then.

Monrad
Note:  All opinions written above are my own and are not necessarily those of 
any company I work for.

On 3/23/2015 3:50 PM, Charlie Blackham wrote:
Monrad

Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Monrad Monsen]

:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 
2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU


Hi Charlie,
Please note that Annex I for both Directives lists the essential 
requirements.  Annex I makes no mention of declarations of conformity 
(DOCs).  Again, the article addressing DOCs in each directive has not 
been identified with a delayed application.  Also, there is no 
essential requirement in the old directives that are contradicted in 
the new directives.  Hence, a product declared compliant to the new 
directives is automatically compliant with the old soon-to-be-repealed 
directives.


By the way, updates to the essential requirements are minor and 
actually provide more information.


  * EMC Directive 2014/30/EU Annex I reduces the description of fixed
installation requirements to the first sentence of what was in the
old Directive 2004/108/EC Annex I section 2:  A fixed
installation shall be installed applying good engineering
practices and respecting the information on the intended use of
its components, with a view to meeting the essential requirements
set out in point 1.  The old Directive 2004/108/EC Annex I
section 2 also adds Those good engineering practices shall be
documented and the documentation shall be held by the person(s)
responsible at the disposal of the relevant national authorities
for inspection purposes for as long as the fixed installation is
in operation.  This is really not appropriate to be listed as an
EMC essential requirement.  The new EMC Directive 2014/30/EU
correctly moves this statement to the last paragraph of Article 19
section 1 because Article 19 is a whole article discussing the
requirements unique to fixed installations.  Please note that
other electrical equipment that are not fixed installations also
have records retention requirements, and those records retention
requirements were never listed in the essential requirements.
  * Low Voltage Directive 2014/30/EU Annex I removes from the
essential requirements one requirement that was in the old
Directive 2006/95/EC Annex I section 1(c):  The brand name or the
trade mark should be clearly printed on the electrical equipment
or, where that is not possible, on the packaging.  However, the
new Low Voltage Directive 2014/30/EU still addresses this
requirement but places this requirement in Article 6 section 6: 
Manufacturers shall indicate on the electrical equipment their

name, registered trade name or registered trade mark and the
postal address at which they can be contracted or, where that is
not possible, on its packaging or in a document accompanying the
electrical equipment.


Again, if you comply with the new directives of 2014, then you also 
comply with the old soon-to-be-repealed directives.


Please provide an official European Union (EU) document that confirms 
that Declarations against these new Directives cannot be issued until 
20 April 2016 as they have no legal standing until then.


Monrad
Note:  All opinions written above are my own and are not necessarily 
those of any company I work for.


On 3/23/2015 3:50 PM, Charlie Blackham wrote:

Monrad

These directives cannot be used at the moment – the relevant
detail is at the end of the quoted articles (with my bold text)

/2014/30/EU Article 46 /

*Entry into force and application *

This Directive shall enter into force on the twentieth day
following that of its publication in the /Official Journal of the
European Union/.EN 29.3.2014 Official Journal of the European
Union L 96/95

Article 1, Article 2, points (1) to (8) of Article 3(1), Article
3(2), Article 5(2) and (3), Article 6, Article 13, Article 19(3)
*and Annex I shall apply from 20 April 2016.*

//

2014/35/EU /Article 28 /

*Entry into force *

This Directive shall enter into force on the twentieth day
following that of its publication in the /Official Journal of the
European Union/.

Article 1, the second paragraph of Article 3, Article 5, Article
13(2) and (3) *and Annexes I, V and VI shall apply from 20 April
2016*.

Declarations against these new Directives cannot be issued until
20 April 2016 as they have no legal standing until then

Regards

Charlie

*From:*Monrad Monsen [mailto:monrad.mon...@oracle.com]
*Sent:* 23 March 2015 21:25
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive
2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

Hi John,
Where is it written that Directives aren't valid until ALL member
states have implemented them?

*_ENTER INTO FORCE_*
I note that both the Low Voltage Directive and the EMC Directive
clearly states:  This directive *_shall_* enter

Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Pat Lawler]

, and whilst they’re not mandatory, without them
 there can be no “presumption of conformity”



 The main changes are to economic operators in the supply chain, and not to
 manufacturers, unless their products fall into scope of the Radio Equipment
 Directive and so move out of scope of EMC/LVD a little bit late in June
 2016.



 Regards

 Charlie





 From: Monrad Monsen [mailto:monrad.mon...@oracle.com]
 Sent: 23 March 2015 22:31
 To: Charlie Blackham
 Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and
 Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU



 Hi Charlie,
 Please note that Annex I for both Directives lists the essential
 requirements.  Annex I makes no mention of declarations of conformity
 (DOCs).  Again, the article addressing DOCs in each directive has not been
 identified with a delayed application.  Also, there is no essential
 requirement in the old directives that are contradicted in the new
 directives.  Hence, a product declared compliant to the new directives is
 automatically compliant with the old soon-to-be-repealed directives.

 By the way, updates to the essential requirements are minor and actually
 provide more information.

 EMC Directive 2014/30/EU Annex I reduces the description of fixed
 installation requirements to the first sentence of what was in the old
 Directive 2004/108/EC Annex I section 2:  A fixed installation shall be
 installed applying good engineering practices and respecting the information
 on the intended use of its components, with a view to meeting the essential
 requirements set out in point 1.  The old Directive 2004/108/EC Annex I
 section 2 also adds Those good engineering practices shall be documented
 and the documentation shall be held by the person(s) responsible at the
 disposal of the relevant national authorities for inspection purposes for as
 long as the fixed installation is in operation.  This is really not
 appropriate to be listed as an EMC essential requirement.  The new EMC
 Directive 2014/30/EU correctly moves this statement to the last paragraph of
 Article 19 section 1 because Article 19 is a whole article discussing the
 requirements unique to fixed installations.  Please note that other
 electrical equipment that are not fixed installations also have records
 retention requirements, and those records retention requirements were never
 listed in the essential requirements.
 Low Voltage Directive 2014/30/EU Annex I removes from the essential
 requirements one requirement that was in the old Directive 2006/95/EC Annex
 I section 1(c):  The brand name or the trade mark should be clearly printed
 on the electrical equipment or, where that is not possible, on the
 packaging.  However, the new Low Voltage Directive 2014/30/EU still
 addresses this requirement but places this requirement in Article 6 section
 6:  Manufacturers shall indicate on the electrical equipment their name,
 registered trade name or registered trade mark and the postal address at
 which they can be contracted or, where that is not possible, on its
 packaging or in a document accompanying the electrical equipment.


 Again, if you comply with the new directives of 2014, then you also comply
 with the old soon-to-be-repealed directives.

 Please provide an official European Union (EU) document that confirms that
 Declarations against these new Directives cannot be issued until 20 April
 2016 as they have no legal standing until then.

 Monrad
 Note:  All opinions written above are my own and are not necessarily those
 of any company I work for.



 On 3/23/2015 3:50 PM, Charlie Blackham wrote:

 Monrad



 These directives cannot be used at the moment – the relevant detail is at
 the end of the quoted articles (with my bold text)



 2014/30/EU Article 46

 Entry into force and application

 This Directive shall enter into force on the twentieth day following that of
 its publication in the Official Journal of the European Union.EN 29.3.2014
 Official Journal of the European Union L 96/95

 Article 1, Article 2, points (1) to (8) of Article 3(1), Article 3(2),
 Article 5(2) and (3), Article 6, Article 13, Article 19(3) and Annex I shall
 apply from 20 April 2016.



 2014/35/EU  Article 28

 Entry into force

 This Directive shall enter into force on the twentieth day following that of
 its publication in the Official Journal of the European Union.

 Article 1, the second paragraph of Article 3, Article 5, Article 13(2) and
 (3) and Annexes I, V and VI shall apply from 20 April 2016.



 Declarations against these new Directives cannot be issued until 20 April
 2016 as they have no legal standing until then



 Regards

 Charlie



 From: Monrad Monsen [mailto:monrad.mon...@oracle.com]
 Sent: 23 March 2015 21:25
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and
 Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU



 Hi John,
 Where is it written that Directives aren't valid until ALL

Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[John Woodgate]

In message 5511840f.4030...@oracle.com, dated Tue, 24 Mar 2015, Monrad 
Monsen monrad.mon...@oracle.com writes:


You made an interesting statement.  You said I don’t have it 
formally, but you can’t legally declare compliance with something 
that is not in force at the time you sign it.  You made a mistake by 
including the statement is in force. 


Yes, it is a slip. 'in force', as I have said before, refers to the 
Directive being an instruction to member states to enact national 
legislation. It is NOTHING to do with conformity or compliance.


Member states are required to enact this legislation by 19 April 2016 
(Article 44). Articles 46 and 47 should further clarify. Note the 
difference between 'in force' and 'apply' in Article 46. Article 47 
clarifies that the Directive is addressed to member states, not the 
population.


Article 46
Entry into force and application
This Directive shall enter into force on the twentieth day following 
that of its publication in the Official Journal of the European Union.


Article 1, Article 2, points (1) to (8) of Article 3(1), Article 3(2), 
Article 5(2) and (3), Article 6, Article 13, Article 19(3) and Annex I 
shall apply from 20 April 2016.


Article 47
Addressees
This Directive is addressed to the Member States.


.  They believe that Europe will only allow products having a DOC 
listing only the old directives until 11:59pm, 19 April 2016;  then 
someone from each company must immediately sign new DOCs to maintain 
the product CE marks at precisely midnight (or 12:00am) on 20 April 
2016 (Wednesday). What is not clear is which time zone should be used 
for signing this DOC, or if one must keep re-signing a DOC again each 
hour of the European time zones. I make this point because USA 
manufacturers may be eight hours behind Europe and miss a whole day of 
imports and sales in Europe if we were to just use the date  time of 
the manufacturer's time zone (the one signing the DOC).


It isn't at all unreasonable because it doesn't matter at all when the 
DoC is *signed*.


What the Directive actually says in Annex II Module A is:

5.2. The manufacturer shall draw up a written EU declaration of 
conformity for an apparatus model and keep it together with the 
technical documentation at the disposal of the national authorities for 
10 years after the apparatus has been placed on the market. The EU 
declaration of conformity shall identify the apparatus for which it has 
been drawn up.
A copy of the EU declaration of conformity shall be made available to 
the relevant authorities upon request.


So you don't actually have to have a DoC at all, UNTIL you are asked for 
it! You may never be asked for it.


 Because this is so unreasonable, one person stated on this PSES chat 
that they had a private conversation with an unnamed official that said 
that UK won't enforce the Europe laws (the new directives) for the first 
year to provide an unofficial transition period ... but that same 
official would not put that into writing.


Of course not. This is the real world.

Instead, I believe it makes more sense for Europe to implement what is 
actually written in the directives which already provides a reasonable 
two year transition period between the new directives going into force 
(18 April 2014) and the old directives being repealed (20 April 2016).


'Sense' and 'reasonable' are not applicable to EU activities

Let me open up an additional debate issue. For the transition, I 
recommend declaring to both the old and the new directives. These 
directives are compatible (no conflicts), so your product can comply 
with both. I suggest DOC wording similar to what is listed below:

- - - - - - - - - - -
This product complies with the requirements of the European Union 
directives listed below:

 2014/35/EU (2006/95/EC)  Low Voltage Directive
 2014/30/EU (2004/108/EC) EMC Directive
 2011/65/EU (2002/95/EC)  Restriction of Hazardous Substances (RoHS) 
Directive

- - - - - - - - - - -

I have heard some say that one may not cite both old  new directives 
on the same DOC, but I have never seen anything official from Europa 
that prohibits this.


Yes, there was a statement to that effect, but whether it is legally 
binding is doubtful, because 'Whereas' 34 of the Directive says:


To ensure effective access to information for market surveillance 
purposes, the information required to identify all applicable Union acts 
should be available in a single EU declaration of conformity. In order 
to reduce the administrative burden on economic operators, that single 
EU declaration of conformity may be a dossier made up of relevant 
individual declarations of conformity.


Nowhere does it say that the dossier may not include declarations to 
superseded or yet-to-be-implemented Directives.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Grasso, Charles]

Hello  Monrad  - On the issue of [What is not clear is which time zone should 
be used for signing this DOC, or if one must keep re-signing a DOC again each 
hour of the European time zones ] I suggest that BMT (that's Brussels Mean 
Time) be used as the  DoC clock from
anywhere in the world!

Best Regards
Charles Grasso
Compliance Engineer
Echostar Communications
(w) 303-706-5467
(c) 303-204-2974
(t) 3032042...@vtext.com
(e) charles.gra...@echostar.com
(e2) chasgra...@gmail.com

From: Monrad Monsen [mailto:monrad.mon...@oracle.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 9:35 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

Hi Charlie,
You made an interesting statement.  You said I don't have it formally, but you 
can't legally declare compliance with something that is not in force at the 
time you sign it.  You made a mistake by including the statement is in 
force.  We do have a formal published Europa statement in both the EMC 
Directive 2014/30/EU and the Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU that: This 
directive shall enter into force on the twentieth day following that of its 
publication in the Official Journal of the European Union. (Emphasis on 
shall is mine.)  Both were published in the Official Journal on 29 March 
2014, so both are in force as of 18 April 2014.  Europe wisely gave 
manufacturers two years to transition to the new directives, so products may 
continue to be sold in Europe with CE marks that only comply with the old 
directives until 20 April 2016, but on 20 April 2016 the new directives become 
mandatory.

As we have seen on this chat group, you are not alone in your view.  Some 
people I highly respect (that group includes you) share your view.  They 
believe that Europe will only allow products having a DOC listing only the old 
directives until 11:59pm, 19 April 2016;  then someone from each company must 
immediately sign new DOCs to maintain the product CE marks at precisely 
midnight (or 12:00am) on 20 April 2016 (Wednesday).  What is not clear is which 
time zone should be used for signing this DOC, or if one must keep re-signing a 
DOC again each hour of the European time zones.  I make this point because USA 
manufacturers may be eight hours behind Europe and miss a whole day of imports 
and sales in Europe if we were to just use the date  time of the 
manufacturer's time zone (the one signing the DOC).  Because this is so 
unreasonable, one person stated on this PSES chat that they had a private 
conversation with an unnamed official that said that UK won't enforce the 
Europe laws (the new directives) for the first year to provide an unofficial 
transition period ... but that same official would not put that into writing.   
Instead, I believe it makes more sense for Europe to implement what is actually 
written in the directives which already provides a reasonable two year 
transition period between the new directives going into force (18 April 2014) 
and the old directives being repealed (20 April 2016).

Let me open up an additional debate issue.  For the transition, I recommend 
declaring to both the old and the new directives.  These directives are 
compatible (no conflicts), so your product can comply with both.  I suggest DOC 
wording similar to what is listed below:
- - - - - - - - - - -
This product complies with the requirements of the European Union directives 
listed below:
 2014/35/EU (2006/95/EC)  Low Voltage Directive
 2014/30/EU (2004/108/EC) EMC Directive
 2011/65/EU (2002/95/EC)  Restriction of Hazardous Substances (RoHS) Directive
- - - - - - - - - - -

I have heard some say that one may not cite both old  new directives on the 
same DOC, but I have never seen anything official from Europa that prohibits 
this.

Thanks.
Monrad

On 3/24/2015 7:44 AM, Charlie Blackham wrote:
Monrad

I should have just put the shall apply from 20 April 2016 into bold, and not 
just the Annex.

 Please provide an official European Union (EU) document that confirms that 
 Declarations against these new Directives cannot be issued until 20 April 
 2016 as they have no legal standing until then.

I don't have it formally, but you can't legally declare compliance with 
something that is not in force at the time you sign it and  
http://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/electrical-engineering/directives/index_en.htm
 states

New LVD Directive 2014/35/EU
As of 20 April 2016, Directive 2006/95/EC will be repealed by the new LVD 
Directive 2014/35/EU. This directive is aligned to the New Legislative 
Framework policy. Nevertheless, Directive 2014/35/EU will keep the same scope 
and safety objectives as Directive 2006/95/EC.
And

New EMC Directive (2014/30/EU)
In February 2014, the European Parliament and Council issued a new EMC 
Directive  aligned to the New Legislative Framework. This new Directive will be 
applicable from 20 April 2016.

The new Directives have an article on repeal of the old

Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Charlie Blackham]

Monrad

These directives cannot be used at the moment - the relevant detail is at the 
end of the quoted articles (with my bold text)


2014/30/EU Article 46

Entry into force and application

This Directive shall enter into force on the twentieth day following that of 
its publication in the Official Journal of the European Union.EN 29.3.2014 
Official Journal of the European Union L 96/95
Article 1, Article 2, points (1) to (8) of Article 3(1), Article 3(2), Article 
5(2) and (3), Article 6, Article 13, Article 19(3) and Annex I shall apply from 
20 April 2016.



2014/35/EU  Article 28

Entry into force

This Directive shall enter into force on the twentieth day following that of 
its publication in the Official Journal of the European Union.
Article 1, the second paragraph of Article 3, Article 5, Article 13(2) and (3) 
and Annexes I, V and VI shall apply from 20 April 2016.

Declarations against these new Directives cannot be issued until 20 April 2016 
as they have no legal standing until then

Regards
Charlie

From: Monrad Monsen [mailto:monrad.mon...@oracle.com]
Sent: 23 March 2015 21:25
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

Hi John,
Where is it written that Directives aren't valid until ALL member states have 
implemented them?

ENTER INTO FORCE
I note that both the Low Voltage Directive and the EMC Directive clearly 
states:  This directive shall enter into force on the twentieth day following 
that of its publication in the Official Journal of the European Union. 
(Emphasis on shall is mine.)  See the citations below:

  *   Article 45 of the EMC Directive 2014/30/EU that was published in the 
Official Journal on 29 March 2014.  Accordingly, the EMC Directive 2014/30/EU 
entered into force on 18 April 2014. Please also note that Article 45 does not 
list Article 15 (EU declaration of conformity) as one of the articles that has 
a delayed application.
  *   Article 28 of the Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU that was published in 
the Official Journal on 29 March 2014.  Accordingly, the Low Voltage Directive 
2014/35/EU entered into force on 18 April 2014.  Please also note that Article 
28 does not list Article 15 (EU declaration of conformity) as one of the 
articles that has a delayed application.
As written, it appears that the new directives are entered into force and can 
be used on declarations of conformity (DOCs).

REPEAL
Similarly, both directives state the older directives (2004/108/EC and 
2006/95/EC) are repealed with effect from 20 April 2016, without prejudice to 
the obligations of the Member States relating to the time limits for 
transposition into national law and the dates of application set out in the 
new directives (2014/30/EU and 2014/35/EU).  As a result, any products that 
still relies on the old directives for CE compliance may not be imported and 
sold after 20 April 2016.

Fortunately, both new directives do state that any references to the repealed 
Directive shall be construed as references to this [new] Directive and shall be 
read in accordance with the correlation table given in the new Directive.  As 
a result, as long as the product still complies with the new directive and just 
has documentation making outdated references to the old directive.

So ... if you are correct that EU directives are aren't valid until ALL member 
states have implemented them, I would like to know the official document that 
contradicts the EU directives themselves.

Thanks.
Monrad


On 3/2/2015 12:50 PM, John Woodgate wrote:
In message 
000f424e.486384b410ff5...@rpqconsulting.commailto:000f424e.486384b410ff5...@rpqconsulting.com,
 dated Mon, 2 Mar 2015, Ron Pickard (RPQ) 
rpick...@rpqconsulting.commailto:rpick...@rpqconsulting.com writes:


As I believe as Mr. Woodgate pointed out earlier, these new directives have no 
legal standing until at least one member state enacts them into their own legal 
system. To my knowledge, that hasn't happened yet. Anyone have any info on this?

There has been a new ruling on this from the Commission. One implementation is 
NOT ENOUGH: the Directives aren't valid until ALL member states have 
implemented them.

I suppose this is because a member state could find a serious objection to 
implementation, which would put everything back in the melting pot.

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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Instructions: http

Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Monrad Monsen]

Hi John,
Where is it written that Directives aren't valid until ALL member 
states have implemented them?


_*ENTER INTO FORCE*_
I note that both the Low Voltage Directive and the EMC Directive clearly 
states:  This directive _*shall*_ enter into force on the twentieth day 
following that of its publication in the Official Journal of the 
European Union. (Emphasis on shall is mine.)  See the citations below:


 * Article 45 of the EMC Directive 2014/30/EU that was published in the
   Official Journal on 29 March 2014.  Accordingly, the EMC Directive
   2014/30/EU entered into force on 18 April 2014. Please also note
   that Article 45 does not list Article 15 (EU declaration of
   conformity) as one of the articles that has a delayed application.
 * Article 28 of the Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU that was
   published in the Official Journal on 29 March 2014. Accordingly, the
   Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU entered into force on 18 April
   2014.  Please also note that Article 28 does not list Article 15 (EU
   declaration of conformity) as one of the articles that has a delayed
   application.

http://www.oracle.com As written, it appears that the new directives 
are entered into force and can be used on declarations of conformity 
(DOCs).


_*REPEAL*_
Similarly, both directives state the older directives (2004/108/EC and 
2006/95/EC) are repealed with effect from 20 April 2016, without 
prejudice to the obligations of the Member States relating to the time 
limits for transposition into national law and the dates of application 
set out in the new directives (2014/30/EU and 2014/35/EU).  As a 
result, any products that still relies on the old directives for CE 
compliance may not be imported and sold after 20 April 2016.


Fortunately, both new directives do state that any references to the 
repealed Directive shall be construed as references to this [new] 
Directive and shall be read in accordance with the correlation table 
given in the new Directive.  As a result, as long as the product still 
complies with the new directive and just has documentation making 
outdated references to the old directive.


So ... if you are correct that EU directives are aren't valid until ALL 
member states have implemented them, I would like to know the official 
document that contradicts the EU directives themselves.


Thanks.
Monrad

On 3/2/2015 12:50 PM, John Woodgate wrote:
In message 000f424e.486384b410ff5...@rpqconsulting.com, dated Mon, 2 
Mar 2015, Ron Pickard (RPQ) rpick...@rpqconsulting.com writes:


As I believe as Mr. Woodgate pointed out earlier, these new 
directives have no legal standing until at least one member state 
enacts them into their own legal system. To my knowledge, that hasn't 
happened yet. Anyone have any info on this?


There has been a new ruling on this from the Commission. One 
implementation is NOT ENOUGH: the Directives aren't valid until ALL 
member states have implemented them.


I suppose this is because a member state could find a serious 
objection to implementation, which would put everything back in the 
melting pot.



-

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Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[John Woodgate]

In message 551084ae.2040...@oracle.com, dated Mon, 23 Mar 2015, Monrad 
Monsen monrad.mon...@oracle.com writes:


Where is it written that Directives aren't valid until ALL member 
states have implemented them?


Two things:

1. Directives are instructions to member states to enact national 
legislation to implement the provisions of the Directive. The Directive 
is addressed, as they say, to member states, not the population.


'Enter into force' is thus nothing to do with the validity of citing a 
Directive in a DoC; it is the date at which member states become 
obligated to start the process of national legislation.


A Directive is thus not a law. Until the Directive is implemented in 
national legislation, no 'law' exists that could be broken by a 
manufacturer.


2. The refutation of the informal statement by UK officials that only 
ONE state need enact implementing legislation is in a document that I 
have seen but I do not have. I have enquired about the availability of 
the document but I have had no response. Maybe the lawyers are still 
arguing.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Monrad Monsen]

Hi Charlie,
Please note that Annex I for both Directives lists the essential 
requirements.  Annex I makes no mention of declarations of conformity 
(DOCs).  Again, the article addressing DOCs in each directive has not 
been identified with a delayed application.  Also, there is no essential 
requirement in the old directives that are contradicted in the new 
directives.  Hence, a product declared compliant to the new directives 
is automatically compliant with the old soon-to-be-repealed directives.


By the way, updates to the essential requirements are minor and actually 
provide more information.


 * EMC Directive 2014/30/EU Annex I reduces the description of fixed
   installation requirements to the first sentence of what was in the
   old Directive 2004/108/EC Annex I section 2:  A fixed installation
   shall be installed applying good engineering practices and
   respecting the information on the intended use of its components,
   with a view to meeting the essential requirements set out in point
   1.  The old Directive 2004/108/EC Annex I section 2 also adds
   Those good engineering practices shall be documented and the
   documentation shall be held by the person(s) responsible at the
   disposal of the relevant national authorities for inspection
   purposes for as long as the fixed installation is in operation. 
   This is really not appropriate to be listed as an EMC essential

   requirement.  The new EMC Directive 2014/30/EU correctly moves this
   statement to the last paragraph of Article 19 section 1 because
   Article 19 is a whole article discussing the requirements unique to
   fixed installations.  Please note that other electrical equipment
   that are not fixed installations also have records retention
   requirements, and those records retention requirements were never
   listed in the essential requirements.
 * Low Voltage Directive 2014/30/EU Annex I removes from the essential
   requirements one requirement that was in the old Directive
   2006/95/EC Annex I section 1(c):  The brand name or the trade mark
   should be clearly printed on the electrical equipment or, where that
   is not possible, on the packaging. However, the new Low Voltage
   Directive 2014/30/EU still addresses this requirement but places
   this requirement in Article 6 section 6:  Manufacturers shall
   indicate on the electrical equipment their name, registered trade
   name or registered trade mark and the postal address at which they
   can be contracted or, where that is not possible, on its packaging
   or in a document accompanying the electrical equipment.


Again, if you comply with the new directives of 2014, then you also 
comply with the old soon-to-be-repealed directives.


Please provide an official European Union (EU) document that confirms 
that Declarations against these new Directives cannot be issued until 
20 April 2016 as they have no legal standing until then.


Monrad
Note:  All opinions written above are my own and are not necessarily 
those of any company I work for.

http://www.oracle.com
On 3/23/2015 3:50 PM, Charlie Blackham wrote:


Monrad

These directives cannot be used at the moment – the relevant detail is 
at the end of the quoted articles (with my bold text)


/2014/30/EU Article 46 /

*Entry into force and application *

This Directive shall enter into force on the twentieth day following 
that of its publication in the /Official Journal of the European 
Union/.EN 29.3.2014 Official Journal of the European Union L 96/95


Article 1, Article 2, points (1) to (8) of Article 3(1), Article 3(2), 
Article 5(2) and (3), Article 6, Article 13, Article 19(3) *and Annex 
I shall apply from 20 April 2016.*


//

2014/35/EU /Article 28 /

*Entry into force *

This Directive shall enter into force on the twentieth day following 
that of its publication in the /Official Journal of the European Union/.


Article 1, the second paragraph of Article 3, Article 5, Article 13(2) 
and (3) *and Annexes I, V and VI shall apply from 20 April 2016*.


Declarations against these new Directives cannot be issued until 20 
April 2016 as they have no legal standing until then


Regards

Charlie

*From:*Monrad Monsen [mailto:monrad.mon...@oracle.com]
*Sent:* 23 March 2015 21:25
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 
2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU


Hi John,
Where is it written that Directives aren't valid until ALL member 
states have implemented them?


*_ENTER INTO FORCE_*
I note that both the Low Voltage Directive and the EMC Directive 
clearly states:  This directive *_shall_* enter into force on the 
twentieth day following that of its publication in the Official 
Journal of the European Union. (Emphasis on shall is mine.)  See 
the citations below:


  * Article 45 of the EMC Directive 2014/30/EU that was published in
the Official Journal on 29 March 2014. Accordingly, the EMC
Directive 2014/30/EU entered

Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Michael Derby]

Hello all,

I don't know if this helps and maybe it's not the full answer, but I remember 
the conversation regarding colour photographs on the DoC when we were 
progressing the early drafts of the new Radio Equipment Directive.

There is an attempt to harmonise the administrative requirements between 
Directives of course, which can mean taking the requirements of one Directive 
and applying it to the others.   Assuming you do not want to 'soften' any 
Directives, you therefore end up 'toughening' the others.
I believe the Toy Safety Directive requires a good quality colour photo of the 
device on the DoC; therefore there was a proposal that all DoCs, to all 
Directives, should have a good quality colour photo on it.
This was finally rejected from the Radio Equipment Directive and EMC Directive 
as being an unnecessary requirement.
However, it was left that if you do decide to put photo on your DoC, it should 
be good quality and in colour (to align with the photo requirements of the Toy 
Safety Directive).

Therefore, it should not be mandatory to put the photo on your EMC or RE 
Directive DoCs, but it's an option if you want it.


Thanks,   Michael.



-Original Message-
From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] 
Sent: 17 March 2015 07:53
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

John,

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't notice the MAY. I'll have to make a 
point to do that in the future.

 However, with my luck, I'm sure some country will translate this into a Must 
Have requirement in their law.

As you may know from other treads I've been participating in that we are 
currently looking at the current and future requirements of the DoC and 
Nameplate so I have to consider all possibilities.
I appreciate everyone's input. It has been most helpful.
Thanks for your input.
The Other Brian

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 4:57 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

In message
64D32EE8B9CBDD44963ACB076A5F6ABB026D385D@Mailbox-Tech.lecotech.local,
dated Mon, 16 Mar 2015, Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com writes:

“4. Object of the declaration (identification of apparatus allowing 
traceability; it may include a colour image of sufficient clarity where 
necessary for the identification of the apparatus):”



Does this mean we have to include a color picture of the product on the 
DoC?

No, it quite clearly says 'may', which gives permission.

What would be an acceptable alternative?

For most products, the other data the Directive requires is sufficient, but for 
some products it might be inconvenient or impossible to add all the marking, so 
a picture would make things clear.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn 
my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and 
Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Kunde, Brian]

This is true, however, we cannot wait until the twelfth hour and then find out 
about these things. High Res color photos and printers and the processes to 
integrate this into production is not a couple hour job. Especially for those 
who also have to comply with the Machinery Directive where every product built 
has a custom DoC.
We have to plan for future possibilities.
Thanks,
The Other Brain

From: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com]
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 4:10 PM
To: Kunde, Brian; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

Brian

I’d wait until the guidance comes out as no one will be signing DoCs until 20 
April 2016

Regards
Charlie

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: 16 March 2015 19:51
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

I’m sorry to be bringing this topic back, but looking at the DoC requirements 
for the new EMC Directive, what does this mean?

“4. Object of the declaration (identification of apparatus allowing 
traceability; it may include a colour image of sufficient clarity where 
necessary for the identification of the apparatus):”

Does this mean we have to include a color picture of the product on the DoC?  
What would be an acceptable alternative?

Thanks,
The Other Brian


From: Ron Pickard (RPQ) [mailto:rpick...@rpqconsulting.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 1:32 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU


As an outsider to the EU process, all I can do is hope it all gets completed on 
time. But, I am skeptical that all the member states and ETSI can get that all 
done by the 2016 dates. I think the EU put the cart before the horse on this 
one, metaphorically speaking.



I look forward to you reply.



Best regards,

Ron Pickard

Sent from my smartphone



-- Original message--

From: John Woodgate

Date: Tue, Mar 3, 2015 11:19 AM

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG;

Subject:Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU



In message 
000f424e.66f2bca822817...@rpqconsulting.commailto:%3c000f424e.66f2bca822817...@rpqconsulting.com,
 dated Tue, 3 Mar 2015, Ron Pickard (RPQ)  writes:For your question, I guess 
we'll have to wait and see if the member states and ETSI meet the 2016 dates 
in those directives.I meant a bit more than that. What chance is there of all 
the work being done in time? 1 picochance?-- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best 
wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.ukhttp://www.jmwa.demon.co.ukWhen I turn my 
back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbowJohn Woodgate, J M Woodgate and 
Associates, Rayleigh, Essex 
UK-This message 
is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 
To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are 
archived and searchable on the web 
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be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.Website:  
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Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Kunde, Brian]

John,

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't notice the MAY. I'll have to make a 
point to do that in the future.

 However, with my luck, I'm sure some country will translate this into a Must 
Have requirement in their law.

As you may know from other treads I've been participating in that we are 
currently looking at the current and future requirements of the DoC and 
Nameplate so I have to consider all possibilities.
I appreciate everyone's input. It has been most helpful.
Thanks for your input.
The Other Brian

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 4:57 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

In message
64D32EE8B9CBDD44963ACB076A5F6ABB026D385D@Mailbox-Tech.lecotech.local,
dated Mon, 16 Mar 2015, Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com writes:

“4. Object of the declaration (identification of apparatus allowing
traceability; it may include a colour image of sufficient clarity where
necessary for the identification of the apparatus):”



Does this mean we have to include a color picture of the product on the
DoC?

No, it quite clearly says 'may', which gives permission.

What would be an acceptable alternative?

For most products, the other data the Directive requires is sufficient, but for 
some products it might be inconvenient or impossible to add all the marking, so 
a picture would make things clear.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn 
my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and 
Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

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LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
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-

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Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[John Woodgate]

In message 
64D32EE8B9CBDD44963ACB076A5F6ABB026D385D@Mailbox-Tech.lecotech.local, 
dated Mon, 16 Mar 2015, Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com writes:


“4. Object of the declaration (identification of apparatus allowing 
traceability; it may include a colour image of sufficient clarity where 
necessary for the identification of the apparatus):”


 

Does this mean we have to include a color picture of the product on the 
DoC? 


No, it quite clearly says 'may', which gives permission.


What would be an acceptable alternative?


For most products, the other data the Directive requires is sufficient, 
but for some products it might be inconvenient or impossible to add all 
the marking, so a picture would make things clear.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

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Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Kunde, Brian]

I’m sorry to be bringing this topic back, but looking at the DoC requirements 
for the new EMC Directive, what does this mean?

“4. Object of the declaration (identification of apparatus allowing 
traceability; it may include a colour image of sufficient clarity where 
necessary for the identification of the apparatus):”

Does this mean we have to include a color picture of the product on the DoC?  
What would be an acceptable alternative?

Thanks,
The Other Brian


From: Ron Pickard (RPQ) [mailto:rpick...@rpqconsulting.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 1:32 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU


As an outsider to the EU process, all I can do is hope it all gets completed on 
time. But, I am skeptical that all the member states and ETSI can get that all 
done by the 2016 dates. I think the EU put the cart before the horse on this 
one, metaphorically speaking.



I look forward to you reply.



Best regards,

Ron Pickard

Sent from my smartphone



-- Original message--

From: John Woodgate

Date: Tue, Mar 3, 2015 11:19 AM

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG;

Subject:Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU



In message 
000f424e.66f2bca822817...@rpqconsulting.commailto:%3c000f424e.66f2bca822817...@rpqconsulting.com,
 dated Tue, 3 Mar 2015, Ron Pickard (RPQ)  writes:For your question, I guess 
we'll have to wait and see if the member states and ETSI meet the 2016 dates 
in those directives.I meant a bit more than that. What chance is there of all 
the work being done in time? 1 picochance?-- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best 
wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.ukhttp://www.jmwa.demon.co.ukWhen I turn my 
back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbowJohn Woodgate, J M Woodgate and 
Associates, Rayleigh, Essex 
UK-This message 
is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 
To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are 
archived and searchable on the web 
at:http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.htmlAttachments are not permitted but the 
IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can 
be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.Website:  
http://www.ieee-pses.org/Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html 
(including how to unsubscribe)List rules: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.htmlFor help, send mail to the list 
administrators:Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail 
to:Jim Bacher:  David Heald:
-


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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
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LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.

-

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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Charlie Blackham]

Brian

I’d wait until the guidance comes out as no one will be signing DoCs until 20 
April 2016

Regards
Charlie

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: 16 March 2015 19:51
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

I’m sorry to be bringing this topic back, but looking at the DoC requirements 
for the new EMC Directive, what does this mean?

“4. Object of the declaration (identification of apparatus allowing 
traceability; it may include a colour image of sufficient clarity where 
necessary for the identification of the apparatus):”

Does this mean we have to include a color picture of the product on the DoC?  
What would be an acceptable alternative?

Thanks,
The Other Brian


From: Ron Pickard (RPQ) [mailto:rpick...@rpqconsulting.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 1:32 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU


As an outsider to the EU process, all I can do is hope it all gets completed on 
time. But, I am skeptical that all the member states and ETSI can get that all 
done by the 2016 dates. I think the EU put the cart before the horse on this 
one, metaphorically speaking.



I look forward to you reply.



Best regards,

Ron Pickard

Sent from my smartphone



-- Original message--

From: John Woodgate

Date: Tue, Mar 3, 2015 11:19 AM

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG;

Subject:Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU



In message 
000f424e.66f2bca822817...@rpqconsulting.commailto:%3c000f424e.66f2bca822817...@rpqconsulting.com,
 dated Tue, 3 Mar 2015, Ron Pickard (RPQ)  writes:For your question, I guess 
we'll have to wait and see if the member states and ETSI meet the 2016 dates 
in those directives.I meant a bit more than that. What chance is there of all 
the work being done in time? 1 picochance?-- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best 
wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.ukhttp://www.jmwa.demon.co.ukWhen I turn my 
back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbowJohn Woodgate, J M Woodgate and 
Associates, Rayleigh, Essex 
UK-This message 
is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 
To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are 
archived and searchable on the web 
at:http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.htmlAttachments are not permitted but the 
IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can 
be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.Website:  
http://www.ieee-pses.org/Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html 
(including how to unsubscribe)List rules: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.htmlFor help, send mail to the list 
administrators:Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail 
to:Jim Bacher:  David Heald:
-


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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions

Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[RPQ]

As an outsider to the EU process, all I can do is hope it all gets 
completed on time. But, I am skeptical that all the member states and ETSI can 
get that all done by the 2016 dates. I think the EU put the cart before the 
horse on this one, metaphorically speaking.
I look forward to you reply.
Best regards,Ron PickardSent from my smartphone




-- Original message--From: John WoodgateDate: Tue, Mar 3, 2015 11:19 
AMTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG;Subject:Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for 
EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU
In message 000f424e.66f2bca822817...@rpqconsulting.com, dated Tue, 3 Mar 
2015, Ron Pickard (RPQ)  writes:For your question, I guess we'll have to 
wait and see if the member states and ETSI meet the 2016 dates in those 
directives.I meant a bit more than that. What chance is there of all the work 
being done in time? 1 picochance?-- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. 
See www.jmwa.demon.co.ukWhen I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a 
rainbowJohn Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex 
UK-This message 
is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 
To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are 
archived and searchable on the web 
at:http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.htmlAttachments are not permitted but the 
IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can 
be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.Website:  
http://www.ieee-pses.org/Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html 
(including how to unsubscribe)List rules: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.htmlFor help, send mail to the list 
administrators:Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail 
to:Jim Bacher:  David Heald: 

-

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Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[John Woodgate]

In message 000f424e.66f2bca822817...@rpqconsulting.com, dated Tue, 3 
Mar 2015, Ron Pickard (RPQ) rpick...@rpqconsulting.com writes:


For your question, I guess we'll have to wait and see if the member 
states and ETSI meet the 2016 dates in those directives.


I meant a bit more than that. What chance is there of all the work being 
done in time? 1 picochance?

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

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list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org

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Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[John Woodgate]

In message 
blupr02mb116f51d9f73a65fbd6eb4c6c1...@blupr02mb116.namprd02.prod.outlook
.com, dated Tue, 3 Mar 2015, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com 
writes:



Picochance? What SI unit is the 'chance' derived from?


1 chance is the time in seconds to vaporize a 1 kg snowball in Hell, at 
a temperature of 10 thousand kelvins.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

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list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org

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Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[John Woodgate]

In message 000f424e.6fe8225c75b15...@rpqconsulting.com, dated Tue, 3 
Mar 2015, Ron Pickard (RPQ) rpick...@rpqconsulting.com writes:


I think the EU put the cart before the horse on this one, 
metaphorically speaking.


A lot of people think that. In the past, the EU has stopped its official 
clock in order to deal with unfinished business. So we may get 2016 
twice in Europe.(;-)

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

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Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[RPQ]

Hi John,For your question, I guess we'll have to wait and see if the member 
states and ETSI meet the 2016 dates in those directives.
I look forward to you reply.
Best regards,Ron PickardSent from my smartphone




-- Original message--From: John WoodgateDate: Mon, Mar 2, 2015 4:26 
PMTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG;Subject:Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for 
EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU
In message 000f424e.280b0b5d62a60...@rpqconsulting.com, dated Mon, 2 Mar 
2015, Ron Pickard (RPQ)  writes:So, how then would one know that ALL member 
states have implemented these directives? Would it be officially announced 
(OJ?)I don't know.or are the 2016 dates the drop dead dates for the member 
states?Yes.And, will ETSI finish it's revision process of it's RED standards 
by then? Just curious on this one.What do you think?-- OOO - Own Opinions 
Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.ukWhen I turn my back on the sun, 
it's to look for a rainbowJohn Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, 
Essex UK-This 
message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings 
are archived and searchable on the web 
at:http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.htmlAttachments are not permitted but the 
IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can 
be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.Website:  
http://www.ieee-pses.org/Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html 
(including how to unsubscribe)List rules: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.htmlFor help, send mail to the list 
administrators:Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail 
to:Jim Bacher:  David Heald: 

-

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Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Brian Oconnell]

Picochance? What SI unit is the 'chance' derived from? 

This could be useful in my uncertainty calculations.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 10:11 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

In message 000f424e.66f2bca822817...@rpqconsulting.com, dated Tue, 3 
Mar 2015, Ron Pickard (RPQ) rpick...@rpqconsulting.com writes:

For your question, I guess we'll have to wait and see if the member 
states and ETSI meet the 2016 dates in those directives.

I meant a bit more than that. What chance is there of all the work being 
done in time? 1 picochance?
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate

-

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Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Crane, Lauren]

TOB,

The EU legislature faces this same problem (many other official documents 
reference a particular directive by number) and nicely declares e.g. in Article 
45 of the EMC Directive “References to the repealed Directive shall be 
construed as references to this Directive and shall be read in accordance with 
the correlation table in Annex VI.’  This could be a model for a single 
sticker-amendment in a document (or web page notice) that prevents you having 
to dispose of many old documents (or document pages).

Regards,
Lauren Crane
KLA-Tencor

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2015 4:27 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

If the implementation start date can slide and cannot be known because of 
dozens of unknowns things that have to come together, then give us a hard two 
years minimum drop dead date after the implementation (Start date) is known. 
There is a lot of work that has to be done and a gentleman’s agreement on 
enforcement is not how things should be done.

Other than on the DoC, do we have to use the Directive Numbers when referring 
to them in our Manuals, website and Sales literature?  Can we just refer to 
them as the “EMC Directive” or “Low Voltage Directive” for example and let it 
go at that?

For example, currently we refer to the EMC Directive as the “EMC Directive 
2004/108/EC” on all our documentation and sales literature which now has to be 
changed which will cause us a lot of work, cost us a bunch of money and will 
cause us to throw out any unused materials by the drop dead date. If we can 
just refer to the directives by name and not by the number that would save us a 
lot of time and money in the future. Then we will only have to change the 
reference numbers on the DoC.

Doable?  If this what everyone does? If not, any objections?

The Other Brian


From: Ron Pickard (RPQ) [mailto:rpick...@rpqconsulting.com]
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2015 4:03 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU


So, how then would one know that ALL member states have implemented these 
directives? Would it be officially announced (OJ?) or are the 2016 dates the 
drop dead dates for the member states?



And, will ETSI finish it's revision process of it's RED standards by then? Just 
curious on this one.



I look forward to you reply.



Best regards,

Ron Pickard

Sent from my smartphone



-- Original message--

From: John Woodgate

Date: Mon, Mar 2, 2015 12:59 PM

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG;

Subject:Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU



In message 
000f424e.486384b410ff5...@rpqconsulting.commailto:%3c000f424e.486384b410ff5...@rpqconsulting.com,
 dated Mon, 2 Mar 2015, Ron Pickard (RPQ)  writes:As I believe as Mr. 
Woodgate pointed out earlier, these new directives have no legal standing 
until at least one member state enacts them into their own legal system. To my 
knowledge, that hasn't happened yet. Anyone have any info on this?There has 
been a new ruling on this from the Commission. One implementation is NOT 
ENOUGH: the Directives aren't valid until ALL member states have implemented 
them.I suppose this is because a member state could find a serious objection to 
implementation, which would put everything back in the melting pot.-- OOO - Own 
Opinions Only. With best wishes. See 
www.jmwa.demon.co.ukhttp://www.jmwa.demon.co.ukWhen I turn my back on the 
sun, it's to look for a rainbowJohn Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, 
Rayleigh, Essex 
UK-This message 
is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 
To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are 
archived and searchable on the web 
at:http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.htmlAttachments are not permitted but the 
IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can 
be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.Website:  
http://www.ieee-pses.org/Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html 
(including how to unsubscribe)List rules: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.htmlFor help, send mail to the list 
administrators:Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail 
to:Jim Bacher:  David Heald:
-


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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments

Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[John Woodgate]

In message 
64D32EE8B9CBDD44963ACB076A5F6ABB026D1820@Mailbox-Tech.lecotech.local, 
dated Mon, 2 Mar 2015, Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com writes:


If the implementation start date can slide and cannot be known because 
of dozens of unknowns things that have to come together, then give us a 
hard two years minimum drop dead date after the implementation (Start 
date) is known. There is a lot of work that has to be done and a 
gentleman’s agreement on enforcement is not how things should be done.




Indeed, but the Commission keeps setting unachievable target dates.

 

Other than on the DoC, do we have to use the Directive Numbers when 
referring to them in our Manuals, website and Sales literature?  Can 
we just refer to them as the “EMC Directive” or “Low Voltage 
Directive” for example and let it go at that?



It depends on the context. If it is a general statement rather than 
referring to a specific edition, then a generic name is OK. But if the 
reference is to a specific edition, then the full reference is required.





--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Kunde, Brian]

If the implementation start date can slide and cannot be known because of 
dozens of unknowns things that have to come together, then give us a hard two 
years minimum drop dead date after the implementation (Start date) is known. 
There is a lot of work that has to be done and a gentleman’s agreement on 
enforcement is not how things should be done.

Other than on the DoC, do we have to use the Directive Numbers when referring 
to them in our Manuals, website and Sales literature?  Can we just refer to 
them as the “EMC Directive” or “Low Voltage Directive” for example and let it 
go at that?

For example, currently we refer to the EMC Directive as the “EMC Directive 
2004/108/EC” on all our documentation and sales literature which now has to be 
changed which will cause us a lot of work, cost us a bunch of money and will 
cause us to throw out any unused materials by the drop dead date. If we can 
just refer to the directives by name and not by the number that would save us a 
lot of time and money in the future. Then we will only have to change the 
reference numbers on the DoC.

Doable?  If this what everyone does? If not, any objections?

The Other Brian


From: Ron Pickard (RPQ) [mailto:rpick...@rpqconsulting.com]
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2015 4:03 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU


So, how then would one know that ALL member states have implemented these 
directives? Would it be officially announced (OJ?) or are the 2016 dates the 
drop dead dates for the member states?



And, will ETSI finish it's revision process of it's RED standards by then? Just 
curious on this one.



I look forward to you reply.



Best regards,

Ron Pickard

Sent from my smartphone



-- Original message--

From: John Woodgate

Date: Mon, Mar 2, 2015 12:59 PM

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG;

Subject:Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU



In message 
000f424e.486384b410ff5...@rpqconsulting.commailto:%3c000f424e.486384b410ff5...@rpqconsulting.com,
 dated Mon, 2 Mar 2015, Ron Pickard (RPQ)  writes:As I believe as Mr. 
Woodgate pointed out earlier, these new directives have no legal standing 
until at least one member state enacts them into their own legal system. To my 
knowledge, that hasn't happened yet. Anyone have any info on this?There has 
been a new ruling on this from the Commission. One implementation is NOT 
ENOUGH: the Directives aren't valid until ALL member states have implemented 
them.I suppose this is because a member state could find a serious objection to 
implementation, which would put everything back in the melting pot.-- OOO - Own 
Opinions Only. With best wishes. See 
www.jmwa.demon.co.ukhttp://www.jmwa.demon.co.ukWhen I turn my back on the 
sun, it's to look for a rainbowJohn Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, 
Rayleigh, Essex 
UK-This message 
is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 
To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are 
archived and searchable on the web 
at:http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.htmlAttachments are not permitted but the 
IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can 
be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.Website:  
http://www.ieee-pses.org/Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html 
(including how to unsubscribe)List rules: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.htmlFor help, send mail to the list 
administrators:Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail 
to:Jim Bacher:  David Heald:
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named

Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[RPQ]

So, how then would one know that ALL member states have implemented these 
directives? Would it be officially announced (OJ?) or are the 2016 dates the 
drop dead dates for the member states?
And, will ETSI finish it's revision process of it's RED standards by then? Just 
curious on this one.
I look forward to you reply.
Best regards,Ron PickardSent from my smartphone




-- Original message--From: John WoodgateDate: Mon, Mar 2, 2015 12:59 
PMTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG;Subject:Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for 
EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU
In message 000f424e.486384b410ff5...@rpqconsulting.com, dated Mon, 2 Mar 
2015, Ron Pickard (RPQ)  writes:As I believe as Mr. Woodgate pointed out 
earlier, these new directives have no legal standing until at least one member 
state enacts them into their own legal system. To my knowledge, that hasn't 
happened yet. Anyone have any info on this?There has been a new ruling on this 
from the Commission. One implementation is NOT ENOUGH: the Directives aren't 
valid until ALL member states have implemented them.I suppose this is because a 
member state could find a serious objection to implementation, which would put 
everything back in the melting pot.-- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best 
wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.ukWhen I turn my back on the sun, it's to look 
for a rainbowJohn Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex 
UK-This message 
is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 
To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are 
archived and searchable on the web 
at:http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.htmlAttachments are not permitted but the 
IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can 
be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.Website:  
http://www.ieee-pses.org/Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html 
(including how to unsubscribe)List rules: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.htmlFor help, send mail to the list 
administrators:Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail 
to:Jim Bacher:  David Heald: 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
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Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[John Woodgate]

In message 000f424e.280b0b5d62a60...@rpqconsulting.com, dated Mon, 2 
Mar 2015, Ron Pickard (RPQ) rpick...@rpqconsulting.com writes:


So, how then would one know that ALL member states have implemented 
these directives? Would it be officially announced (OJ?)


I don't know.


or are the 2016 dates the drop dead dates for the member states?


Yes.


And, will ETSI finish it's revision process of it's RED standards by 
then? Just curious on this one.


What do you think?
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
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Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Kunde, Brian]

When you say, applicable from 20 April 2016 does that the date in which we 
can start declaring to the new directives or the date in which everything must 
be declared by?
If the later, when can we start declaring to the new directives?
Thanks,
The Other Brian

From: Ronald Wellman [mailto:rwell...@wellman.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 12:48 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

Maybe the lists are not published yet, because of the following:

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/electrical/lvd/

The new  LVD Directive 2014/35/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council 
of 26 February 2014 on the harmonisation of the laws of the Member States 
relating to the making available on the market of electrical equipment designed 
for use within certain voltage limits 
(recast)http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:JOL_2014_096_R_0357_01from=EN
 (all 
languageshttp://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2014.096.01.0357.01.ENG),
 aligned to the New Legislative 
Frameworkhttp://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/single-market-goods/internal-market-for-products/new-legislative-framework/index_en.htm,
 will be applicable from 20 April 2016.

and,

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/electrical/emc/index_en.htm

The new  EMC Directive 2014/30/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council 
of 26 February 2014  on the harmonisation of the laws of the Member States 
relating to electromagnetic compatibility 
(recast)http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:JOL_2014_096_R_0079_01qid=1396511671603from=EN
 (all 
languageshttp://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2014.096.01.0079.01.ENG),
 aligned to the New Legislative 
Frameworkhttp://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/single-market-goods/internal-market-for-products/new-legislative-framework/index_en.htm,
 will be applicable from 20 April 2016.

Best regards,
Ron Wellman

From: Helge Knudsen [mailto:0464c9eeb744-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org]
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 7:52 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

Hello Monrad,

There  are not any listings for the new versions of the EU directives yet.

Best regards
Helge Knudsen
Denmark

From: Monrad Monsen [mailto:monrad.mon...@oracle.com]
Sent: 28. februar 2015 01:25
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

Does anyone have a link to the latest list of harmonized standards for the EMC 
Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU?

The Europa web page I use to find the link for the latest listing of harmonized 
standards does not even list the latest revision directives. 
(http://www.newapproach.org/Directives/DirectiveList.asp)  While the earlier 
revision directives are not repealed until 20 April 2016, these new directives 
published in 2014 have already entered into force and application.

The latest harmonized standard listings I can find are below:

  *   16 May 2014 for Low Voltage Directive 2006/95/EC:  
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=uriserv:OJ.C_.2014.149.01.0033.01.ENG
 (Does not list EN62368-1 which was published August 2014.)
  *   16 January 2015 for EMC Directive 2004/108/EC:  
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=uriserv:OJ.C_.2015.014.01.0001.01.ENG

Thanks.
Monrad Monsen | Worldwide Compliance Officer
Phone: +13032729612tel:+13032729612 | Fax: +13032724867
Oracle Compliance Engineering
500 Eldorado Blvd | Broomfield, CO 80021
Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the 
environment


-


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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
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Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
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David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Ronald R. Wellman]

Not my wording. I recommend you wait until further information is
available from the website to make a decision on how to declare to the
newer Directives.


 


 When you say, applicable from 20 April 2016 does that
the date in which

 we can start declaring to the new directives or the date in which

 everything must be declared by?

 If the later, when can we start declaring to the new directives?

 Thanks,

 The Other Brian





From: Ronald Wellman [mailto:rwell...@wellman.com]

 Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 12:48 PM

 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

 Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive
2014/30/EU and

 Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU



 Maybe the lists are not published yet, because of the following:



 http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/electrical/lvd/



 The new LVD Directive 2014/35/EU of the European Parliament and of
the

 Council of 26 February 2014 on the harmonisation of the laws of the
Member

 States relating to the making available on the market of
electrical

 equipment designed for use within certain voltage limits


(recast)http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:JOL_2014_096_R_0357_01from=EN

 (all


languageshttp://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2014.096.01.0357.01.ENG),

 aligned to the New Legislative


Frameworkhttp://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/single-market-goods/internal-market-for-products/new-legislative-framework/index_en.htm,

 will be applicable from 20 April 2016.



 and,




http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/electrical/emc/index_en.htm



 The new EMC Directive 2014/30/EU of the European Parliament and of
the

 Council of 26 February 2014 on the harmonisation of the laws of
the

 Member States relating to electromagnetic compatibility


(recast)http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:JOL_2014_096_R_0079_01qid=1396511671603from=EN

 (all


languageshttp://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2014.096.01.0079.01.ENG),

 aligned to the New Legislative


Frameworkhttp://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/single-market-goods/internal-market-for-products/new-legislative-framework/index_en.htm,

 will be applicable from 20 April 2016.



 Best regards,

 Ron Wellman





From: Helge Knudsen [mailto:0464c9eeb744-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org]

 Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 7:52 AM

 To:
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

 Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive
2014/30/EU and

 Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU



 Hello Monrad,



 There are not any listings for the new versions of the EU directives
yet.



 Best regards

 Helge Knudsen

 Denmark





From: Monrad Monsen [mailto:monrad.mon...@oracle.com]

 Sent: 28. februar 2015 01:25

 To:
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

 Subject: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU
and Low

 Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU



 Does anyone have a link to the latest list of harmonized standards
for the

 EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU?



 The Europa web page I use to find the link for the latest listing
of

 harmonized standards does not even list the latest revision
directives.

 (http://www.newapproach.org/Directives/DirectiveList.asp) While
the

 earlier revision directives are not repealed until 20 April 2016,
these

 new directives published in 2014 have already entered into force
and

 application.



 The latest harmonized standard listings I can find are below:



 * 16 May 2014 for Low Voltage Directive 2006/95/EC:


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=uriserv:OJ.C_.2014.149.01.0033.01.ENG

 (Does not list EN62368-1 which was published August 2014.)

 * 16 January 2015 for EMC Directive 2004/108/EC:


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=uriserv:OJ.C_.2015.014.01.0001.01.ENG



 Thanks.

 Monrad Monsen | Worldwide Compliance Officer

 Phone: +13032729612tel:+13032729612 | Fax: +13032724867

 Oracle Compliance Engineering

 500 Eldorado Blvd | Broomfield, CO 80021

 Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help
protect

 the environment

Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[RPQ]

As I believe as Mr. Woodgate pointed out earlier, these new directives have 
no legal standing until at least one member state enacts them into their own 
legal system. To my knowledge, that hasn't happened yet. Anyone have any info 
on this?
I look forward to you reply.
Best regards,Ron PickardSent from my smartphone




-- Original message--From: Ronald R. WellmanDate: Mon, Mar 2, 2015 
12:22 PMTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG;Subject:Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards 
for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU
Not my wording. I recommend you wait until further information 
isavailable from the website to make a decision on how to declare to thenewer 
Directives. When you say, applicable from 20 April 2016 does 
thatthe date in which
 we can start declaring to the new directives or the date in which
 everything must be declared by?
 If the later, when can we start declaring to the new directives?
 Thanks,
 The Other Brian


From: Ronald Wellman [mailto:rwell...@wellman.com]
-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.orgAll emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web 
at:http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.htmlAttachments are not permitted but the 
IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can 
be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.Website:  
http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.htmlFor help, send mail to 
the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgFor policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald dhe...@gmail.com

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[John Woodgate]

In message 000f424e.486384b410ff5...@rpqconsulting.com, dated Mon, 2 
Mar 2015, Ron Pickard (RPQ) rpick...@rpqconsulting.com writes:


As I believe as Mr. Woodgate pointed out earlier, these new directives 
have no legal standing until at least one member state enacts them into 
their own legal system. To my knowledge, that hasn't happened yet. 
Anyone have any info on this?


There has been a new ruling on this from the Commission. One 
implementation is NOT ENOUGH: the Directives aren't valid until ALL 
member states have implemented them.


I suppose this is because a member state could find a serious objection 
to implementation, which would put everything back in the melting pot.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

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Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Charlie Blackham]

The first date you can declare compliance with these new Directive is 20 April 
2016.

2014/30/EU Article 46 states ... Article 1, Article 2, points (1) to (8) 
of Article 3(1), Article 3(2), Article 5(2) and (3), Article 6, Article 13, 
Article 19(3) and Annex I shall apply from 20 April 2016.
2014/35/EU article 28 states  Article 1, the second paragraph of Article 
3, Article 5, Article 13(2) and (3) and Annexes I, V and VI shall apply from 20 
April 2016.

New Directives normally come into force when enacted into National Law of at 
least one member state, however these Directives, the new Radio Equipment 
Directive (and presumably the other NLF alignment Directives) are different in 
that they have a specific start date written into the Directive, that will be 
transposed into National Law along with the rest of the Directive, thus giving 
the prescribed start date.

The changes in EMC and LV are essentially administrative for manufacturers so 
an instant switchover is being implemented. As the RED includes a number of 
changes, including to its scope,  a 12 month transition period is provided.

It is (unofficially) recognised that this presents somewhat of an 
administrative burden and the responsible UK government department (BIS) 
recently told attendees at a UK EMCTLA seminar hat there was a Gentleman's 
agreement amongst enforcement authorities that no one was going to be too 
concerned whether DoCs referenced new or existing Directives for the rest of 
2016 - but also that you're unlikely to get that in writing from anyone with 
appropriate authority :)

Just to confirm, you are also not allowed to declare to both old and new 
Directives on a single catch-all DoC.

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
LinkedIn: 
uk.linkedin.com/in/charlieblackham/http://uk.linkedin.com/in/charlieblackham/
Web: www.sulisconsultants.comhttp://www.sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247




From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: 02 March 2015 18:57
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

When you say, applicable from 20 April 2016 does that the date in which we 
can start declaring to the new directives or the date in which everything must 
be declared by?
If the later, when can we start declaring to the new directives?
Thanks,
The Other Brian

From: Ronald Wellman [mailto:rwell...@wellman.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 12:48 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

Maybe the lists are not published yet, because of the following:

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/electrical/lvd/

The new  LVD Directive 2014/35/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council 
of 26 February 2014 on the harmonisation of the laws of the Member States 
relating to the making available on the market of electrical equipment designed 
for use within certain voltage limits 
(recast)http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:JOL_2014_096_R_0357_01from=EN
 (all 
languageshttp://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2014.096.01.0357.01.ENG),
 aligned to the New Legislative 
Frameworkhttp://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/single-market-goods/internal-market-for-products/new-legislative-framework/index_en.htm,
 will be applicable from 20 April 2016.

and,

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/electrical/emc/index_en.htm

The new  EMC Directive 2014/30/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council 
of 26 February 2014  on the harmonisation of the laws of the Member States 
relating to electromagnetic compatibility 
(recast)http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:JOL_2014_096_R_0079_01qid=1396511671603from=EN
 (all 
languageshttp://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2014.096.01.0079.01.ENG),
 aligned to the New Legislative 
Frameworkhttp://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/single-market-goods/internal-market-for-products/new-legislative-framework/index_en.htm,
 will be applicable from 20 April 2016.

Best regards,
Ron Wellman

From: Helge Knudsen [mailto:0464c9eeb744-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org]
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 7:52 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

Hello Monrad,

There  are not any listings for the new versions of the EU directives yet.

Best regards
Helge Knudsen
Denmark

From: Monrad Monsen [mailto:monrad.mon...@oracle.com]
Sent: 28. februar 2015 01:25
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low 
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

Does anyone have a link to the latest list

Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Helge Knudsen]

Hello Monrad,

 

There  are not any listings for the new versions of the EU directives yet.

 

Best regards

Helge Knudsen

Denmark 

 

From: Monrad Monsen [mailto:monrad.mon...@oracle.com] 
Sent: 28. februar 2015 01:25
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

 

Does anyone have a link to the latest list of harmonized standards for the
EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU? 

The Europa web page I use to find the link for the latest listing of
harmonized standards does not even list the latest revision directives.
(http://www.newapproach.org/Directives/DirectiveList.asp)  While the earlier
revision directives are not repealed until 20 April 2016, these new
directives published in 2014 have already entered into force and
application.

The latest harmonized standard listings I can find are below:

*   16 May 2014 for Low Voltage Directive 2006/95/EC:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=uriserv:OJ.C_.2014.14
9.01.0033.01.ENG (Does not list EN62368-1 which was published August 2014.)
*   16 January 2015 for EMC Directive 2004/108/EC:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=uriserv:OJ.C_.2015.01
4.01.0001.01.ENG


Thanks.

Monrad Monsen | Worldwide Compliance Officer
Phone: +13032729612 | Fax: +13032724867 
Oracle Compliance Engineering
500 Eldorado Blvd | Broomfield, CO 80021 
Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect
the environment 

 

 

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html 
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald dhe...@gmail.com 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Ronald Wellman]

Maybe the lists are not published yet, because of the following:

 

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/electrical/lvd/

 

The new
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:JOL_2014_096_R_03
57_01from=EN LVD Directive 2014/35/EU of the European Parliament and of
the Council of 26 February 2014 on the harmonisation of the laws of the
Member States relating to the making available on the market of electrical
equipment designed for use within certain voltage limits (recast) (
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2014.096.0
1.0357.01.ENG all languages), aligned to the
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/single-market-goods/internal-market
-for-products/new-legislative-framework/index_en.htm New Legislative
Framework, will be applicable from 20 April 2016.

 

and,

 

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/electrical/emc/index_en.htm

 

The new
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:JOL_2014_096_R_00
79_01qid=1396511671603from=EN EMC Directive 2014/30/EU of the European
Parliament and of the Council of 26 February 2014  on the harmonisation of
the laws of the Member States relating to electromagnetic compatibility
(recast) (
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2014.096.0
1.0079.01.ENG all languages), aligned to the
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/single-market-goods/internal-market
-for-products/new-legislative-framework/index_en.htm New Legislative
Framework, will be applicable from 20 April 2016.

 

Best regards,

Ron Wellman

 

From: Helge Knudsen [mailto:0464c9eeb744-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 7:52 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and
Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

 

Hello Monrad,

 

There  are not any listings for the new versions of the EU directives yet.

 

Best regards

Helge Knudsen

Denmark 

 

From: Monrad Monsen [mailto:monrad.mon...@oracle.com] 
Sent: 28. februar 2015 01:25
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Subject: [PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low
Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

 

Does anyone have a link to the latest list of harmonized standards for the
EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU? 

The Europa web page I use to find the link for the latest listing of
harmonized standards does not even list the latest revision directives.
(http://www.newapproach.org/Directives/DirectiveList.asp)  While the earlier
revision directives are not repealed until 20 April 2016, these new
directives published in 2014 have already entered into force and
application.

The latest harmonized standard listings I can find are below:

*   16 May 2014 for Low Voltage Directive 2006/95/EC:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=uriserv:OJ.C_.2014.14
9.01.0033.01.ENG (Does not list EN62368-1 which was published August 2014.)
*   16 January 2015 for EMC Directive 2004/108/EC:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=uriserv:OJ.C_.2015.01
4.01.0001.01.ENG


Thanks.

Monrad Monsen | Worldwide Compliance Officer
Phone: +13032729612 tel:+13032729612  | Fax: +13032724867
fax:+13032724867  
Oracle Compliance Engineering
500 Eldorado Blvd | Broomfield, CO 80021 
Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect
the environment 

 

 

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html 
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org 
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org  

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org 
David Heald dhe...@gmail.com mailto:dhe...@gmail.com  

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used

[PSES] Harmonised Standards for EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU

[Monrad Monsen]

Does anyone have a link to the latest list of harmonized standards for 
the EMC Directive 2014/30/EU and Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU?


The Europa web page I use to find the link for the latest listing of 
harmonized standards does not even list the latest revision directives. 
(http://www.newapproach.org/Directives/DirectiveList.asp)  While the 
earlier revision directives are not repealed until 20 April 2016, these 
new directives published in 2014 have already entered into force and 
application.


The latest harmonized standard listings I can find are below:

 * 16 May 2014 for Low Voltage Directive 2006/95/EC:
   
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=uriserv:OJ.C_.2014.149.01.0033.01.ENG
   (Does not list EN62368-1 which was published August 2014.)
 * 16 January 2015 for EMC Directive 2004/108/EC:
   
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=uriserv:OJ.C_.2015.014.01.0001.01.ENG


Thanks.

http://www.oracle.com Monrad Monsen | Worldwide Compliance Officer
Phone: +13032729612 tel:+13032729612 | Fax: +13032724867 
fax:+13032724867

Oracle Compliance Engineering
500 Eldorado Blvd | Broomfield, CO 80021
http://www.oracle.com/commitment Oracle is committed to developing 
practices and products that help protect the environment




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