Re: [PSES] UL = IEC ??
Amund,To expand on what Rich as said, UL adapted IEC 60950 ITE products and IEC 61010 commercial/industrial electronic equipment as UL standards early on so there have been harmonized IEC/UL requirements for these products for 30 years; IEC 60950 has been replace by IEC 623268-1 IT& consumer electronic products & as you know. Other IEC standards have been adapted by UL for the US market; IEC 60065 for TVs, IEC 60601 for med devices and IEC 60335 for household appliances - to name some key ones - over the years to aid manufacturers to develop products for the worldwide market. So a large portion of consumer/commercial products are being designed against these harmonized requirements. Others will be adapted as manufacturers press UL to do so. Remember, tho, that the US does not accept a manufacturer's Declaration of Conformity; only 3rd party certifications are accepted in the US so the mfgr must get a cert mark from a US NRTL to show compliance. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant PO Box 1067 Albany, ORe 97321-0413 503/452-1201 IEEE Life Fellow IEEE PSES 2020 Distinguished Lecturer <mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org> p.perk...@ieee.org Entropy ain't what it used to be From: Richard Nute Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 2:24 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] UL = IEC ?? Hi Amund: First and foremost, both the IEC and UL make money selling standards. Second, UL does not adopt any IEC standard, or most other non-UL standards. UL will test to an IEC standard, and may issue a CB test report, but not the right to use their certification mark. UL will only issue the right to use their certification mark if the product meets the UL standard. UL writes their own standards. If industry insists, UL will start with an IEC standard and re-write it to meet their requirements (often justified as meeting USA National Electrical Code requirements). To be fair, Americans often add more requirements, too (which are gladly accepted by UL as such additional requirements mean additional testing and additional income). UL is an ANSI-approved standards-writing organization. As such, virtually all UL standards are also ANSI standards. All other certification houses must use UL/ANSI standards for their certification. Best regards, and stay safe! Rich From: Amund Westin mailto:am...@westin-emission.no> > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 2:40 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] UL = IEC ?? When IEC publish a standard, do UL adopt it as is, or do they modify it? I guess this will vary form case to case. Right? Best regards Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] UL = IEC ??
Hi Amund: First and foremost, both the IEC and UL make money selling standards. Second, UL does not adopt any IEC standard, or most other non-UL standards. UL will test to an IEC standard, and may issue a CB test report, but not the right to use their certification mark. UL will only issue the right to use their certification mark if the product meets the UL standard. UL writes their own standards. If industry insists, UL will start with an IEC standard and re-write it to meet their requirements (often justified as meeting USA National Electrical Code requirements). To be fair, Americans often add more requirements, too (which are gladly accepted by UL as such additional requirements mean additional testing and additional income). UL is an ANSI-approved standards-writing organization. As such, virtually all UL standards are also ANSI standards. All other certification houses must use UL/ANSI standards for their certification. Best regards, and stay safe! Rich From: Amund Westin Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 2:40 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] UL = IEC ?? When IEC publish a standard, do UL adopt it as is, or do they modify it? I guess this will vary form case to case. Right? Best regards Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] AW: [PSES] UL = IEC ??
Hello Amund, I most often use UL 61800-5-1 that contains numerous and significant national deviations from IEC 61800-5-1. Most of these adapt the requirements of the IEC standard to those of the NEC NFPA 70, and to those of UL component standards. If you have a specific standard in mind, you may register for Digital View in the UL Standards Sales Site and check national differences for free: For UL 61800-5-1 (https://standardscatalog.ul.com/ProductDetail.aspx?productId=UL61800-5-1_1_S_20120608), there are 170 pages of national differences. Kind regards, Bernd Von: Amund Westin Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Januar 2021 11:40 An: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Betreff: [PSES] UL = IEC ?? When IEC publish a standard, do UL adopt it as is, or do they modify it? I guess this will vary form case to case. Right? Best regards Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.html=04%7C01%7C%7C5346db8c2cac44dd939908d8bdf907ab%7C39288a38ff19432c80111cd9d0dff445%7C0%7C0%7C637468224569307531%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=JNvqIHJe%2FKVOy0ME18MYoRHWKyJVQplVqxi%2F9fL2KP4%3D=0> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct-compliance.oc.ieee.org%2F=04%7C01%7C%7C5346db8c2cac44dd939908d8bdf907ab%7C39288a38ff19432c80111cd9d0dff445%7C0%7C0%7C637468224569317484%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=x2UfNbLIXT%2Fj20V4gkR5So1mVp2aees9o77q8VXG7I0%3D=0> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2F=04%7C01%7C%7C5346db8c2cac44dd939908d8bdf907ab%7C39288a38ff19432c80111cd9d0dff445%7C0%7C0%7C637468224569317484%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=Vms3o2FXVvBYehaePnCe5JK6tSrhw9xhK4hxegFkiA0%3D=0> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flist.html=04%7C01%7C%7C5346db8c2cac44dd939908d8bdf907ab%7C39288a38ff19432c80111cd9d0dff445%7C0%7C0%7C637468224569327445%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=Dro7VULHH6XmgcUT9wI7mQgKbbCJf7y01%2Fo%2B1NVV780%3D=0> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flistrules.html=04%7C01%7C%7C5346db8c2cac44dd939908d8bdf907ab%7C39288a38ff19432c80111cd9d0dff445%7C0%7C0%7C637468224569327445%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=HnUAOrI%2F5uufvbHbpcAo2tLZpjhNxM7WMxKc5TRB%2Bks%3D=0> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> [https://wilo-download.cdn.mediamid.com/footer/De_sustainability.jpg] <http://wilo.com/Deutscher-Nachhaltigkeitspreis> WILO SE Wilopark 1, 44263 Dortmund Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 21356 www.wilo.com Vorstand/Executive Board: Oliver Hermes (President & CEO), Dr. Patrick Niehr, Georg Weber, Mathias Weyers Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Prof. Dr. Norbert Wieselhuber Dieses Dokument ist vertraulich zu behandeln. Die Weitergabe sowie Vervielfaeltigung, Verwertung und Mitteilung seines Inhalts ist nur mit unserer ausdruecklichen Genehmigung gestattet. Alle Rechte vorbehalten, insbesondere fuer den Fall der Schutzrechtsanmeldung. This document has to be treated confidentially. Its contents are not to be passed on, duplicated, exploited or disclosed without our expressed permission. All rights reserved, especially the right to apply for protective rights. Datenschutz ist uns wichtig! Daher gehen wir sorgsam mit Ihren Daten um. Näheres finden Sie in unseren Datenschutzhinweisen<https://wilo.com/de/de/Wilo-Deutschland/Datenschutzhinweise.html>. Sollten Sie keinen Kontakt mehr mit uns wünschen, wenden Sie sich bitte an datensch...@wilo.com<mailto:datensch...@wilo.com>. Data Protection is important to us! Therefore we handle your data carefully. Please fi
Re: [PSES] UL = IEC ??
In principle is right, but UL can add US Differences, referring to UL standards and NEC requirements. Best Regards and Be Safe, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE VP for Technical Activities and Member of BoG IEEE-PSES Convener IEC 62A/MT29+MT 62354 17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd. Tel Aviv 6436719 Israel Tel:+972-3-6912668 Fax:+972-3-6913988 Mobile:+972-54-4818816 e-mail: sloz...@ieee.org From: Amund Westin Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 12:40 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] UL = IEC ?? When IEC publish a standard, do UL adopt it as is, or do they modify it? I guess this will vary form case to case. Right? Best regards Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] UL = IEC ??
When IEC publish a standard, do UL adopt it as is, or do they modify it? I guess this will vary form case to case. Right? Best regards Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
