Re: What about 480 VAC in Europe? RE: 2 Phases in North America
Hello Andrew, et al; World Electricity Supplies which has been referenced in this thread is available from the Int'l Product Safety Bookshop which can be found on the Safety Link at: www.safetylink.com/bookshop.html Regards, Art Michael -- On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Andrew Carson wrote: Peter The star distribution with the center point neutral runs from the distribution grid substation to the facility. So the utility company provides the consumer with the four wires, which they then distribute as required. In a residential area, the three phases are split every third house, providing each residence with a single phase and a neutral. The logic here is that if one phase fails, the whole street is not plunged into darkness. A very good handbook I recommend is World Electricity Supplies published by BSi Standards. Covers all the worlds distribution voltages up to 22kV grid level. Plus shows you what phase configuration is used by the generator to distribute the power. Peter Tarver wrote: Andrew - Please clarify something for me. Is the utility distribution star configured (WYE connected), rather than DELTA? Or are you speaking only wrt typical distribution within a building? (In the US, distribution is generally used to reference utility power distribution, for instance, distribution transformer, as opposed to facility transformer.) I ask because DELTA is used by utilities in the US and Canada to simplify connections save the unnecessary cost of running a Neutral (star reference point conductor) between distribution transformers (or so it was 'splained to me, Lucy). Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com From: Andrew Carson Terry Then nominal EU phase to phase voltage is 400VAC with a +6/-10% Tolerance. Distribution is Three Phase Star, Earthed Neutral. Snip Andrew Carson - Senior Compliance Engineer, Xyratex, UK Phone: +44 (0)23 9249 6855 Fax: +44 (0)23 9249 6014 -- Andrew Carson - Senior Compliance Engineer, Xyratex, UK Phone: +44 (0)23 9249 6855 Fax: +44 (0)23 9249 6014 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: What about 480 VAC in Europe? RE: 2 Phases in North America
John is correct, the official UK voltage is 230/400VAC. Just what comes out the wall socket is not necessarily the same. Those strange tolerance limits of of 230 +6%/-10% were carefully chosen so the European suppliers could meet the harmonized level without having to make many chances. Crabb, John wrote: Just to clarify the position in the UK, although it was stated belowthat the nominal voltage is 415V, I am almost certain that the DECLAREDVOLTAGE is 400V. I base this on the fact that domestic consumerswere advised that the declared voltage changed from 240V to 230V, and 230 X 1.732 = 400V, and my 1996 BSI World Electricity Suppliesshows the UK voltage (and the Italy voltage) to be 400/230V.In practice, the voltage didn't change - we went from 240 +/- 6%= 225.6 - 254.4, to 230 -6%/+10% = 216.2 - 253, and the old voltagefits within the window of the new voltage, if you accept that 253 and254.4 are near enough the same.Regards,John Crabb, Development Excellence (Product Safety) , NCR Financial Solutions Group Ltd., Discovery Centre, 3 Fulton Road, Dundee, Scotland, DD2 4SW E-Mail :john.cr...@scotland.ncr.com Tel: +44 (0)1382-592289 (direct ). Fax +44 (0)1382-622243. VoicePlus 6-341-2289. -Original Message- From: Paolo Gemma [mailto:paolo.ge...@icn.siemens.it] Sent: 17 January 2002 17:56 To: acar...@uk.xyratex.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: What about 480 VAC in Europe? RE: 2 Phases in North America Also Italy have a nominal phase to phase of 380VAC. Ciao Paolo At 11:20 1/17/02 +, Andrew Carson wrote: Terry Then nominal EU phase to phase voltage is 400VAC with a +6/-10% Tolerance. Distribution is Three Phase Star, Earthed Neutral. Some countries are still a little behind in the voltage harmonization e.g.. Belgium is a nominal 380VAC. Other have not changed as they fall within the tolerance limits already, e.g. the UK is a nominal 415VAC Generally with switch mode supplies, provided your incoming wiring feed is changed to take into account the Star and not Delta, configuration. They can accommodate the voltage difference. Terry Meck wrote: High all: I have been away form the forum, very busy, and a quick review notes you have been discussing Power distribution in USA. What about Europe? We have an application needing 480 VAC here in USA. How compatible will 480 VAC be in Europe? Someone told me 390 VAC is more real in Europe. !?! How do you see this 480 VAC being impacted by the EN 61000-3-3 harmonic standard? Thanks for any input in advance! Best regards, Terry J. Meck Senior Compliance/Test Engineer tjm...@accusort.com -- Andrew Carson - Senior Compliance Engineer, Xyratex, UK Phone: +44 (0)23 9249 6855 Fax: +44 (0)23 9249 6014
Re: What about 480 VAC in Europe? RE: 2 Phases in North America
Peter The star distribution with the center point neutral runs from the distribution grid substation to the facility. So the utility company provides the consumer with the four wires, which they then distribute as required. In a residential area, the three phases are split every third house, providing each residence with a single phase and a neutral. The logic here is that if one phase fails, the whole street is not plunged into darkness. A very good handbook I recommend is World Electricity Supplies published by BSi Standards. Covers all the worlds distribution voltages up to 22kV grid level. Plus shows you what phase configuration is used by the generator to distribute the power. Peter Tarver wrote: Andrew - Please clarify something for me. Is the utility distribution star configured (WYE connected), rather than DELTA? Or are you speaking only wrt typical distribution within a building? (In the US, distribution is generally used to reference utility power distribution, for instance, distribution transformer, as opposed to facility transformer.) I ask because DELTA is used by utilities in the US and Canada to simplify connections save the unnecessary cost of running a Neutral (star reference point conductor) between distribution transformers (or so it was 'splained to me, Lucy). Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com From: Andrew Carson Terry Then nominal EU phase to phase voltage is 400VAC with a +6/-10% Tolerance. Distribution is Three Phase Star, Earthed Neutral. Snip Andrew Carson - Senior Compliance Engineer, Xyratex, UK Phone: +44 (0)23 9249 6855 Fax: +44 (0)23 9249 6014 -- Andrew Carson - Senior Compliance Engineer, Xyratex, UK Phone: +44 (0)23 9249 6855 Fax: +44 (0)23 9249 6014 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: What about 480 VAC in Europe? RE: 2 Phases in North America
Just to clarify the position in the UK, although it was stated below that the nominal voltage is 415V, I am almost certain that the DECLARED VOLTAGE is 400V. I base this on the fact that domestic consumers were advised that the declared voltage changed from 240V to 230V, and 230 X 1.732 = 400V, and my 1996 BSI World Electricity Supplies shows the UK voltage (and the Italy voltage) to be 400/230V. In practice, the voltage didn't change - we went from 240 +/- 6% = 225.6 - 254.4, to 230 -6%/+10% = 216.2 - 253, and the old voltage fits within the window of the new voltage, if you accept that 253 and 254.4 are near enough the same. Regards, John Crabb, Development Excellence (Product Safety) , NCR Financial Solutions Group Ltd., Discovery Centre, 3 Fulton Road, Dundee, Scotland, DD2 4SW E-Mail :john.cr...@scotland.ncr.com Tel: +44 (0)1382-592289 (direct ). Fax +44 (0)1382-622243. VoicePlus 6-341-2289. -Original Message- From: Paolo Gemma [mailto:paolo.ge...@icn.siemens.it] Sent: 17 January 2002 17:56 To: acar...@uk.xyratex.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: What about 480 VAC in Europe? RE: 2 Phases in North America Also Italy have a nominal phase to phase of 380VAC. Ciao Paolo At 11:20 1/17/02 +, Andrew Carson wrote: Terry Then nominal EU phase to phase voltage is 400VAC with a +6/-10% Tolerance. Distribution is Three Phase Star, Earthed Neutral. Some countries are still a little behind in the voltage harmonization e.g.. Belgium is a nominal 380VAC. Other have not changed as they fall within the tolerance limits already, e.g. the UK is a nominal 415VAC Generally with switch mode supplies, provided your incoming wiring feed is changed to take into account the Star and not Delta, configuration. They can accommodate the voltage difference. Terry Meck wrote: High all: I have been away form the forum, very busy, and a quick review notes you have been discussing Power distribution in USA. What about Europe? We have an application needing 480 VAC here in USA. How compatible will 480 VAC be in Europe? Someone told me 390 VAC is more real in Europe. !?! How do you see this 480 VAC being impacted by the EN 61000-3-3 harmonic standard? Thanks for any input in advance! Best regards, Terry J. Meck Senior Compliance/Test Engineer tjm...@accusort.com
Re: What about 480 VAC in Europe? RE: 2 Phases in North America
Also Italy have a nominal phase to phase of 380VAC. Ciao Paolo At 11:20 1/17/02 +, Andrew Carson wrote: Terry Then nominal EU phase to phase voltage is 400VAC with a +6/-10% Tolerance. Distribution is Three Phase Star, Earthed Neutral. Some countries are still a little behind in the voltage harmonization e.g.. Belgium is a nominal 380VAC. Other have not changed as they fall within the tolerance limits already, e.g. the UK is a nominal 415VAC Generally with switch mode supplies, provided your incoming wiring feed is changed to take into account the Star and not Delta, configuration. They can accommodate the voltage difference. Terry Meck wrote: High all: I have been away form the forum, very busy, and a quick review notes you have been discussing Power distribution in USA. What about Europe? We have an application needing 480 VAC here in USA. How compatible will 480 VAC be in Europe? Someone told me 390 VAC is more real in Europe. !?! How do you see this 480 VAC being impacted by the EN 61000-3-3 harmonic standard? Thanks for any input in advance! Best regards, Terry J. Meck Senior Compliance/Test Engineer tjm...@accusort.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. -- Andrew Carson - Senior Compliance Engineer, Xyratex, UK Phone: +44 (0)23 9249 6855 Fax: +44 (0)23 9249 6014 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. -- Paolo Gemma Siemens Information and Communication Network spa Microwave Networks MW RD NSA EMC SS Padana sup. KM 158 20060 Cassina de'Pecchi (MI) Italy phone +39 02 9526 6587fax +39 02 9526 6203 mobile +39 348 3690185 e-mail paolo.ge...@icn.siemens.it --
RE: What about 480 VAC in Europe? RE: 2 Phases in North America
Andrew - Please clarify something for me. Is the utility distribution star configured (WYE connected), rather than DELTA? Or are you speaking only wrt typical distribution within a building? (In the US, distribution is generally used to reference utility power distribution, for instance, distribution transformer, as opposed to facility transformer.) I ask because DELTA is used by utilities in the US and Canada to simplify connections save the unnecessary cost of running a Neutral (star reference point conductor) between distribution transformers (or so it was 'splained to me, Lucy). Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com From: Andrew Carson Terry Then nominal EU phase to phase voltage is 400VAC with a +6/-10% Tolerance. Distribution is Three Phase Star, Earthed Neutral. Snip Andrew Carson - Senior Compliance Engineer, Xyratex, UK Phone: +44 (0)23 9249 6855 Fax: +44 (0)23 9249 6014 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: What about 480 VAC in Europe? RE: 2 Phases in North America
Terry Then nominal EU phase to phase voltage is 400VAC with a +6/-10% Tolerance. Distribution is Three Phase Star, Earthed Neutral. Some countries are still a little behind in the voltage harmonization e.g.. Belgium is a nominal 380VAC. Other have not changed as they fall within the tolerance limits already, e.g. the UK is a nominal 415VAC Generally with switch mode supplies, provided your incoming wiring feed is changed to take into account the Star and not Delta, configuration. They can accommodate the voltage difference. Terry Meck wrote: High all: I have been away form the forum, very busy, and a quick review notes you have been discussing Power distribution in USA. What about Europe? We have an application needing 480 VAC here in USA. How compatible will 480 VAC be in Europe? Someone told me 390 VAC is more real in Europe. !?! How do you see this 480 VAC being impacted by the EN 61000-3-3 harmonic standard? Thanks for any input in advance! Best regards, Terry J. Meck Senior Compliance/Test Engineer tjm...@accusort.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. -- Andrew Carson - Senior Compliance Engineer, Xyratex, UK Phone: +44 (0)23 9249 6855 Fax: +44 (0)23 9249 6014 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
What about 480 VAC in Europe? RE: 2 Phases in North America
High all: I have been away form the forum, very busy, and a quick review notes you have been discussing Power distribution in USA. What about Europe? We have an application needing 480 VAC here in USA. How compatible will 480 VAC be in Europe? Someone told me 390 VAC is more real in Europe. !?! How do you see this 480 VAC being impacted by the EN 61000-3-3 harmonic standard? Thanks for any input in advance! Best regards, Terry J. Meck Senior Compliance/Test Engineer tjm...@accusort.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
