Re: [Emc-users] Arcbuddy.py, v1.6

2015-12-06 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Sunday 06 December 2015 08:02:17 andy pugh wrote:

> On 6 December 2015 at 11:53, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > So what am I doing wrong?  I can't even program a
> > G3 X-0.1375 Y0.1375 I-0.1375 J-0. at the 3" upper end of a Y
> > run, to make a left hand 90 degree turn. The reported error is
> > 95.0495%
>
> When I find myself in this sort of pickle, I say to my self "Stuff it,
> they can deprecate R-format arcs as much as they like, at least they
> work" and use R-format.

How can I convert what I just posted to John T. to R format?  None of 
these moves approach the 180 or 360 points where R looses accuracy. 2 
45's that should meet in the middle to form an S curve, and a 90.

?
And maybe I found it, Johns arc tool appears to spit out good data if its 
in G91 mode. But that also means I have to comment out the g2/3 move 
target point moves.  That actually simplify's the code by several lines, 
but is made up by the G91/G2/G3/G90 wrappers.  No biggie as I can adjust 
it for size and intend to, by carving much cheaper wood for test pieces 
than $150 a board foot ebony.  Probably the best bet is to just run the 
whole sub in G91 mode, and specify each straight runs length as opposed 
to its target ending point.  If I have to do major work to adjust it to 
fit, I'll probably do just that with some math in the preamble.

Thanks Andy, I think I have it whupped.

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Arcbuddy.py, v1.6

2015-12-06 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Sunday 06 December 2015 07:45:13 John Thornton wrote:

> Just so we are on the same page the latest version is 1.8
>
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/arcgenm18.py
>
> If your not in the correct starting position then you will get an
> error for sure.
>
> For example:
> center X0 Y0
> diameter 0.275
> start angle 90
> end angle 180
> direction ccw
> gives me a start point of X0.0 Y0.1375
> the arc G3 X-0.1375 Y0.0 I0.0 J-0.1375
>
> so if I run the following in the MDI it just works
> F25
> G0 X0.0 Y0.1375
> G3 X-0.1375 Y0.0 I0.0 J-0.1375
>
> JT

Humm, but it still seems to me that any line of g2/g3 code whose starting 
address is x0 y0, eg exactly where its at, should run to wherever that 
code takes it, without any errors, it ends whereever it ends.  I just 
re-did, using the new 1.8 code, and adjusting the x,y centers to get 
that 0,0 start point for 3 arcs, getting this code from 1.8:

For an S curve that moves a y run by x amount:
G3 X-0.0403 Y0.0972 I-0.1375 J-0. ( is a 45 degree bend to the left )
G2 X-0.0403 Y0.0972 I0.0972 J0.0972 (should go from that end point back 
to where the rest of the y move starts, leaving the x dimension, which 
was .7500" at .6" and the next line takes it to the end of the 
[lid_len - corner_rad] then a 90 degree turn to the left:
G3 X-0.1375 Y0.1375 I-0.1375 J-0.
G1 Y#<_lid_len> X[#<_key_w_lid> - #<_corner_rad>] (is the end point of 
the G3 move above, so I get a 45 degree straight run in place of the 
curve when the arc is commented out)
G1 X0. (back to the upper left corner)
G1 Y0. (back to the point of origin )
G92.1
o ENDSUB
I have to comment out these 3 lines of arc code before it will load into 
LCNC, V2.7.3-sim.  The first one, a 90 degree from 270 to zero at the 
lower right corner works as expected.  These are the next 3.

I used the same arc diameter for all of them, although I suppose I could 
adjust that for the G3/g2 pair if the key width of the longer and 
narrower section needed adjusting.  Obviously I cannot measure the 
result to determine that if it won't even load.

The key, without the arcs after the first one, shows in the attached 
snapshot.  The 45 degree lines are where the arcs belong.
>
> On 12/6/2015 5:53 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 06 December 2015 06:27:37 John Thornton wrote:
> >> The default behavior of incremental.
> >>
> >> JT
> >
> > I was rather convinced of that.  Thanks John T.
> >
> > That means that any set of data that results in x0y0 for the
> > starting address, eg where it at, should be valid.   It is not. 
> > arcbuddy draws exactly what I want it to do,  but when copy/pasted
> > into the code stream, the reported errors are huge, over 90% in some
> > cases.
> >
> > So what am I doing wrong?  I can't even program a
> > G3 X-0.1375 Y0.1375 I-0.1375 J-0. at the 3" upper end of a Y
> > run, to make a left hand 90 degree turn. The reported error is
> > 95.0495%
> >
> > Is there a gcode that can screw that up?  The init line at the top
> > of the file is:
> > G49 G92.1 G17 G40 G90 G91.1
> >
> > The error is in a subroutine where the first line of the subroutine
> > is G92 x0y0z0, and the last line of the subroutine is a G92.1.  The
> > idea is to use the subroutine as a step and repeat to make multiple
> > copies because I'll need a dozen of these things.
> >
> > Not up for good, but if you have any ideas, I'm all eyes when I do
> > get up for the day.
> >
> > Thanks John.
> >
> >> On 12/5/2015 9:07 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> What arc mode, absolute or incremental, does arcbuddy's answers
> >>> come out in?
> >>
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>
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-Ed

Re: [Emc-users] Arcbuddy.py, v1.6

2015-12-06 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Sunday 06 December 2015 06:27:37 John Thornton wrote:

> The default behavior of incremental.
>
> JT

I was rather convinced of that.  Thanks John T.

That means that any set of data that results in x0y0 for the starting 
address, eg where it at, should be valid.   It is not.  arcbuddy draws 
exactly what I want it to do,  but when copy/pasted into the code 
stream, the reported errors are huge, over 90% in some cases.

So what am I doing wrong?  I can't even program a 
G3 X-0.1375 Y0.1375 I-0.1375 J-0. at the 3" upper end of a Y run, to 
make a left hand 90 degree turn. The reported error is 95.0495%

Is there a gcode that can screw that up?  The init line at the top of the 
file is:
G49 G92.1 G17 G40 G90 G91.1

The error is in a subroutine where the first line of the subroutine is 
G92 x0y0z0, and the last line of the subroutine is a G92.1.  The idea is 
to use the subroutine as a step and repeat to make multiple copies 
because I'll need a dozen of these things.

Not up for good, but if you have any ideas, I'm all eyes when I do get up 
for the day.

Thanks John.

> On 12/5/2015 9:07 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > What arc mode, absolute or incremental, does arcbuddy's answers come
> > out in?
>
> --
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Arcbuddy.py, v1.6

2015-12-06 Thread John Thornton 
Just so we are on the same page the latest version is 1.8

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/arcgenm18.py

If your not in the correct starting position then you will get an error 
for sure.

For example:
center X0 Y0
diameter 0.275
start angle 90
end angle 180
direction ccw
gives me a start point of X0.0 Y0.1375
the arc G3 X-0.1375 Y0.0 I0.0 J-0.1375

so if I run the following in the MDI it just works
F25
G0 X0.0 Y0.1375
G3 X-0.1375 Y0.0 I0.0 J-0.1375

JT

On 12/6/2015 5:53 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 06 December 2015 06:27:37 John Thornton wrote:
>
>> The default behavior of incremental.
>>
>> JT
> I was rather convinced of that.  Thanks John T.
>
> That means that any set of data that results in x0y0 for the starting
> address, eg where it at, should be valid.   It is not.  arcbuddy draws
> exactly what I want it to do,  but when copy/pasted into the code
> stream, the reported errors are huge, over 90% in some cases.
>
> So what am I doing wrong?  I can't even program a
> G3 X-0.1375 Y0.1375 I-0.1375 J-0. at the 3" upper end of a Y run, to
> make a left hand 90 degree turn. The reported error is 95.0495%
>
> Is there a gcode that can screw that up?  The init line at the top of the
> file is:
> G49 G92.1 G17 G40 G90 G91.1
>
> The error is in a subroutine where the first line of the subroutine is
> G92 x0y0z0, and the last line of the subroutine is a G92.1.  The idea is
> to use the subroutine as a step and repeat to make multiple copies
> because I'll need a dozen of these things.
>
> Not up for good, but if you have any ideas, I'm all eyes when I do get up
> for the day.
>
> Thanks John.
>
>> On 12/5/2015 9:07 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> What arc mode, absolute or incremental, does arcbuddy's answers come
>>> out in?
>> --
>>  Go from Idea to Many App Stores Faster with Intel(R) XDK
>> Give your users amazing mobile app experiences with Intel(R) XDK.
>> Use one codebase in this all-in-one HTML5 development environment.
>> Design, debug & build mobile apps & 2D/3D high-impact games for
>> multiple OSs.
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=254741911=/4140
>> ___
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>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] Arcbuddy.py, v1.6

2015-12-06 Thread John Thornton 
The default behavior of incremental.

JT

On 12/5/2015 9:07 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> What arc mode, absolute or incremental, does arcbuddy's answers come out
> in?


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Re: [Emc-users] Arcbuddy.py, v1.6

2015-12-06 Thread andy pugh 
On 6 December 2015 at 11:53, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> So what am I doing wrong?  I can't even program a
> G3 X-0.1375 Y0.1375 I-0.1375 J-0. at the 3" upper end of a Y run, to
> make a left hand 90 degree turn. The reported error is 95.0495%

When I find myself in this sort of pickle, I say to my self "Stuff it,
they can deprecate R-format arcs as much as they like, at least they
work" and use R-format.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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[Emc-users] Info on old Smart-Pak PLC?

2015-12-06 Thread Gregg Eshelman 
I picked up an interesting freebie. It's a 23 year old, 6 input 
Smart-Pak PLC. No model # on it, just a typed and hand cut paper lable 
on the firmware chip SMART-PAK Ver 3.24 and a date on the bottom in 
Sharpie 10/92-188

I didn't find any info for anything this old on Entertron's website. 
Sent off an e-mail but unless they've packratted away info and software 
for everything they've ever made, I don't have high hopes for obtaining 
info.

In and Out LEDs are labled, plus one marked SCAN. The 6 and 3 position 
connectors one one long side of the board aren't labled at all. I assume 
power and serial comm are in those.

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[Emc-users] Poor mans soft turnon

2015-12-06 Thread Gene Heskett 
Greetings all;

Before tv's lost their crt's, there was a component in the power inlet 
circuit that had a very high negative temp coefficient, which was used 
to create a high voltage drop when it was cold, which in turn forced the 
first few seconds of its power draw after being turned on, thru the 
degaussing coils wrapped around the crt in order to demagnetise it.

That voltage drop heated it, and it got hot enough to get down to just a 
couple of ohms, which was not enough to overcome the MOV in series with 
the coils.  This also allowed the tv itself to be soft-started, and it 
worked so well that it was often the major part failure in the tv for 
the first 3 or 4 years.

About 3 or 4 of those, wired in parallel, would also serve as an inrush 
limiter when I turn on the power supply for my G0704 mill.  But the 
parts houses we had locally have all evaporated.  I just checked a 
couple surplus places without finding any of those critters.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to where a small handfull of these could 
be sourced?  Usually bare, they look like a graphite quarter coin with a 
lead wire soldered to the middle of a silver plated dot in the middle of 
each face.  Usually slightly thicker than a 'merican quarter.

When I was setting up the mill, and building that supply, I had wired up 
a 4 plex on the wall behind it, putting it by itself on a 20 amp 
breaker.  Turning it on, trips the 20 instantly as the motor supply has 
a huge amount of microfarads, probably in excess of 80,000 uf, mainly 
because that was the size of the caps I could source, NOS, locally by 
the fine old art of horse trading.

So, while it draws less than 3 amps with the spindle motor off, and could 
reach 18 if the motor was in a LR state, but it takes a 30 amp breaker 
to withstand the in-rush. If I could find some of these critters, 
building them into that motor supply, I could put the 20 amp breaker 
back in and it wouldn't be quite so ill eagle if an inspector looked it 
over.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] mb2hal and floating point conversions

2015-12-06 Thread TJoseph Powderly 
Thx Jeff
I also use a Labjack with Hal.
This comp is much cleaner.
TomP tjtr33


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Re: [Emc-users] Hardinge Conquest 42 Conversion

2015-12-06 Thread Sarah Armstrong 
yes it can handle the turret toolchanger ,

theirs a number of ways using classic ladder , or using a comp


On 6 December 2015 at 20:46, Jeremy Jones  wrote:

> Thanks John. How would one handle the tool changing from a hardware and
> software standpoint since this a 10 tool ATC? Does LCNC support ATCs?
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:
>
> > On 11/12/2015 05:47 PM, Jeremy Jones wrote:
> > > Thinking about picking up a Conquest 42. The machine is supposedly in
> > good
> > > shape but the Fanuc OT control might be shot and the motherboard would
> > need
> > > to replaced. Will try to resurrect but I'm thinking linuxcnc anyway
> > since I
> > > did a Bridgport recently.
> > >
> > > I've seen a lot of CHNC conversions but couldn't find any Conquests.
> > > Wondering if anyone has done one and if its similar to the CHNC's. I
> know
> > > the CHNC II has the same spindle but I unsure of the remaining
> > electronics.
> > > Just trying to get an idea of everything I would need to replace to
> make
> > it
> > > work. It also has a 10 tool turret tool changer and I'm wondering how
> > hard
> > > that would be to get to work with LCNC. Any help is appreciated.
> > >
> > It may have resolvers instead of encoders on the axes.  I
> > (Pico Systems) have a converter that converts the resolvers
> > to look like standard encoders.  Several CHNCs have been
> > converted with my Universal PWM Controller and PWM servo amps.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> >
> --
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] Hardinge Conquest 42 Conversion

2015-12-06 Thread Jeremy Jones 
Thanks John. How would one handle the tool changing from a hardware and
software standpoint since this a 10 tool ATC? Does LCNC support ATCs?

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 11/12/2015 05:47 PM, Jeremy Jones wrote:
> > Thinking about picking up a Conquest 42. The machine is supposedly in
> good
> > shape but the Fanuc OT control might be shot and the motherboard would
> need
> > to replaced. Will try to resurrect but I'm thinking linuxcnc anyway
> since I
> > did a Bridgport recently.
> >
> > I've seen a lot of CHNC conversions but couldn't find any Conquests.
> > Wondering if anyone has done one and if its similar to the CHNC's. I know
> > the CHNC II has the same spindle but I unsure of the remaining
> electronics.
> > Just trying to get an idea of everything I would need to replace to make
> it
> > work. It also has a 10 tool turret tool changer and I'm wondering how
> hard
> > that would be to get to work with LCNC. Any help is appreciated.
> >
> It may have resolvers instead of encoders on the axes.  I
> (Pico Systems) have a converter that converts the resolvers
> to look like standard encoders.  Several CHNCs have been
> converted with my Universal PWM Controller and PWM servo amps.
>
> Jon
>
>
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Hardinge Conquest 42 Conversion

2015-12-06 Thread andy pugh 
On 6 December 2015 at 20:46, Jeremy Jones  wrote:
>  Does LCNC support ATCs?

To an extent.

The problem is that all ATCs are a little different, so there is no
one-size-fits-all option that you can simply turn on in LinuxCNC.

However, everything that is required to control a toolchanger is
available in LinuxCNC, and there are many toolchangers out there
working with LinuxCNC. But some configuration work will be required.

-- 
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http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Hardinge Conquest 42 Conversion

2015-12-06 Thread Sarah Armstrong 
http://gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/hardinge.xhtml

sorry forgot the link , that will get you close

On 6 December 2015 at 20:51, Sarah Armstrong 
wrote:

> yes it can handle the turret toolchanger ,
>
> theirs a number of ways using classic ladder , or using a comp
>
>
> On 6 December 2015 at 20:46, Jeremy Jones  wrote:
>
>> Thanks John. How would one handle the tool changing from a hardware and
>> software standpoint since this a 10 tool ATC? Does LCNC support ATCs?
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Jon Elson 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On 11/12/2015 05:47 PM, Jeremy Jones wrote:
>> > > Thinking about picking up a Conquest 42. The machine is supposedly in
>> > good
>> > > shape but the Fanuc OT control might be shot and the motherboard would
>> > need
>> > > to replaced. Will try to resurrect but I'm thinking linuxcnc anyway
>> > since I
>> > > did a Bridgport recently.
>> > >
>> > > I've seen a lot of CHNC conversions but couldn't find any Conquests.
>> > > Wondering if anyone has done one and if its similar to the CHNC's. I
>> know
>> > > the CHNC II has the same spindle but I unsure of the remaining
>> > electronics.
>> > > Just trying to get an idea of everything I would need to replace to
>> make
>> > it
>> > > work. It also has a 10 tool turret tool changer and I'm wondering how
>> > hard
>> > > that would be to get to work with LCNC. Any help is appreciated.
>> > >
>> > It may have resolvers instead of encoders on the axes.  I
>> > (Pico Systems) have a converter that converts the resolvers
>> > to look like standard encoders.  Several CHNCs have been
>> > converted with my Universal PWM Controller and PWM servo amps.
>> >
>> > Jon
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> --
>> > ___
>> > Emc-users mailing list
>> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> >
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Hardinge Conquest 42 Conversion

2015-12-06 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Sunday 06 December 2015 15:46:30 Jeremy Jones wrote:

> Thanks John. How would one handle the tool changing from a hardware
> and software standpoint since this a 10 tool ATC? Does LCNC support
> ATCs?
>
Yes it does.  But you'll have to enable it, perhaps by writing some of 
the code.  There is an example or 2 in the wiki, at  wiki.linuxcnc.org.
search for tool changer at the bottom on most any page.

If those don't fit your tool changer, they might serve as a model to 
guide one in writing your own.  I got all gung-ho here about a month 
back and was going to make one for my G0704, but it turns out that it 
would need a wheel to transfer arm built because there is not enough 
room under the spindle to bring the whole wheel in as the spindle hits 
tools in the adjacent pockets.  So that project got moved to the back 
burner & the fire turned off till my present project is done.

A tool changer will likely require a second interface and BoB to drive 
it, something I already had as I drive it with a Mesa 5i25 which has 2 
parports on it.

> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Jon Elson  
wrote:
> > On 11/12/2015 05:47 PM, Jeremy Jones wrote:
> > > Thinking about picking up a Conquest 42. The machine is supposedly
> > > in
> >
> > good
> >
> > > shape but the Fanuc OT control might be shot and the motherboard
> > > would
> >
> > need
> >
> > > to replaced. Will try to resurrect but I'm thinking linuxcnc
> > > anyway
> >
> > since I
> >
> > > did a Bridgport recently.
> > >
> > > I've seen a lot of CHNC conversions but couldn't find any
> > > Conquests. Wondering if anyone has done one and if its similar to
> > > the CHNC's. I know the CHNC II has the same spindle but I unsure
> > > of the remaining
> >
> > electronics.
> >
> > > Just trying to get an idea of everything I would need to replace
> > > to make
> >
> > it
> >
> > > work. It also has a 10 tool turret tool changer and I'm wondering
> > > how
> >
> > hard
> >
> > > that would be to get to work with LCNC. Any help is appreciated.
> >
> > It may have resolvers instead of encoders on the axes.  I
> > (Pico Systems) have a converter that converts the resolvers
> > to look like standard encoders.  Several CHNCs have been
> > converted with my Universal PWM Controller and PWM servo amps.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> > 
> >-- ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] mb2hal and floating point conversions

2015-12-06 Thread Ralph Stirling 
That worked perfectly, Jeff!  Thank you very much.

To summarize for future readers, process the comp
file Jeff wrote like this:

halcompile --install toieee.comp

Then add to the HAL file:

loadrt toieee
addf toieee.0 servo-thread

setp toieee.0.update 1
net low mb2hal.00.00.int toieee.0.in-high
net high mb2hal.00.01.int toieee.0.in-low
net ain-00 motion.analog-in-00 toieee.0.out

This will properly convert analog input registers read from
a LabJack UE9-Pro over Modbus TCP into a floating point
value readable by an M66 E0 L0.

Thanks again!
-- Ralph

From: Jeff Epler [jep...@unpythonic.net]
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2015 2:46 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] mb2hal and floating point conversions

No existing component will take a 32-bit floating point number encoded
as 2 16-bit "s32" values and output it as a HAL float.

I wrote and gave a very small amount of testing to a component that does.

component toieee
"""Interpret two 16-bit integers or one 32-bit integer as a 32-bit IEEE
floating-point value""";

pin in s32 in-low "Low 16 bits OR full 32-bit floating point value";
pin in s32 in-high "High 16 bits OR zero";
pin in bit update "TRUE to update output, FALSE to hold current value";

pin out float out "Result of conversion";

license "GPL";
function _
"""If update is TRUE, compute a new output value from the input values."""
;
;;
FUNCTION(_) {
if(!update) return;

union { uint32_t i; float f; } u;

u.i = ((uint32_t) in_low) | (((uint32_t) in_high) << 16);
out = u.f; // (automatically promoted from 32-bit float to 64-bit double)
}

For instance, treating the hex value 3EAB as a 32-bit IEEE float, it
obtains a value close to 1/3:
halcmd: setp toieee.0.update 1
halcmd: setp toieee.0.in-high 0x3eaa
halcmd: setp toieee.0.in-low 0xaaab
halcmd: getp toieee.0.out
0.333

However, if this is considered a "standard enough" modbus encoding then perhaps
this decoding should be added directly into mb2hal.

Jeff

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Re: [Emc-users] mb2hal and floating point conversions

2015-12-06 Thread Jeff Epler 
On Sun, Dec 06, 2015 at 08:21:30PM +, Ralph Stirling wrote:
> That worked perfectly, Jeff!  Thank you very much.

You're welcome.  I'm glad it worked!

Jeff

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Re: [Emc-users] Poor mans soft turnon

2015-12-06 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Sunday 06 December 2015 22:55:27 Ken Strauss wrote:

> I assume that you mean a Surgistor(TM). You'll find them for very high
> prices on eBay (the one currently listed is $25!). Google shows
> several places that claim to have them.
>
Sound like they renamed it so they could charge antique prices for it. 
They were just a couple bucks back in 1985.

I'll google the net for the new name.

Thanks Ken.

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@wdtv.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 10:26 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: [Emc-users] Poor mans soft turnon
> >
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > Before tv's lost their crt's, there was a component in the power
> > inlet
>
> circuit
>
> > that had a very high negative temp coefficient, which was used to
> > create a high voltage drop when it was cold, which in turn forced
> > the first few
>
> seconds
>
> > of its power draw after being turned on, thru the degaussing coils
> > wrapped around the crt in order to demagnetise it.
> >
> > That voltage drop heated it, and it got hot enough to get down to
> > just a
>
> couple
>
> > of ohms, which was not enough to overcome the MOV in series with the
>
> coils.
>
> > This also allowed the tv itself to be soft-started, and it worked so
> > well
>
> that it
>
> > was often the major part failure in the tv for the first 3 or 4
> > years.
> >
> > About 3 or 4 of those, wired in parallel, would also serve as an
> > inrush
>
> limiter
>
> > when I turn on the power supply for my G0704 mill.  But the parts
> > houses
>
> we
>
> > had locally have all evaporated.  I just checked a couple surplus
> > places
>
> without
>
> > finding any of those critters.
> >
> > Does anyone have a suggestion as to where a small handfull of these
> > could
>
> be
>
> > sourced?  Usually bare, they look like a graphite quarter coin with
> > a lead
>
> wire
>
> > soldered to the middle of a silver plated dot in the middle of each
> > face. Usually slightly thicker than a 'merican quarter.
> >
> > When I was setting up the mill, and building that supply, I had
> > wired up a
>
> 4
>
> > plex on the wall behind it, putting it by itself on a 20 amp
> > breaker.
>
> Turning it
>
> > on, trips the 20 instantly as the motor supply has a huge amount of
> > microfarads, probably in excess of 80,000 uf, mainly because that
> > was the
>
> size
>
> > of the caps I could source, NOS, locally by the fine old art of
> > horse
>
> trading.
>
> > So, while it draws less than 3 amps with the spindle motor off, and
> > could
>
> reach
>
> > 18 if the motor was in a LR state, but it takes a 30 amp breaker to
>
> withstand
>
> > the in-rush. If I could find some of these critters, building them
> > into
>
> that motor
>
> > supply, I could put the 20 amp breaker back in and it wouldn't be
> > quite so
>
> ill
>
> > eagle if an inspector looked it over.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page 
>
> --
>-- --
>
> > Go from Idea to Many App Stores Faster with Intel(R) XDK Give your
> > users amazing mobile app experiences with Intel(R) XDK.
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] linuxcnc 2.7.3 - mesa 7i77 update

2015-12-06 Thread Marius Alksnys 
Stephen,

you should download "Version 14 serial remote I/O card firmware" from 
www.mesanet.com, under ANYTHING I/O DAUGHTER CARDS, unzip it, and follow 
the README file in sserial/utils/linuxcnc.

So, you will need ssinstall script and a special script, called update7i77

12/07/2015 06:03 AM, Stephen Dubovsky rašė:
> Hello all,
> Upgraded the Ubuntu mill (2.5?) to 2.7.3.  Using a 5i25 & 7i77.  It
> complained that the 7i77 needed updating.  I found some docs on the forum
> and updated the 5i25.  But it still complains "hm2/hm2_5i25.0: Warning:
> sserial remote device 7i77 channel 0 has old firmware that should be
> updated" (I also get a warning for ch 1.)  How do I update the 7i77
> firmware?  I moved the jumpers W4 & W12 (?) on the 7i77 like the
> instructions said to when I updated the 5i25.  Is there something else I
> have to run besides mesaflash?
>
> I had to rerun pncconf to regenerate the hal/ini fles. 2.7.3 crashed on the
> old ones but the new seem fine.  I just opened the old .pncconf files and
> right-clicked all the way to the last menu and re-saved them.
>
> Thank you,
> Stephen
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor mans soft turnon

2015-12-06 Thread Jon Elson 
On 12/06/2015 10:42 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 06 December 2015 22:57:52 Rafael wrote:
>
>> On 12/06/2015 07:25 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> Greetings all;
>>>
>>> Before tv's lost their crt's, there was a component in the power
>>> inlet circuit that had a very high negative temp coefficient, which
>>> was used to create a high voltage drop when it was cold, which in
>>> turn forced the first few seconds of its power draw after being
>>> turned on, thru the degaussing coils wrapped around the crt in order
>>> to demagnetise it.
>>>
>>> That voltage drop heated it, and it got hot enough to get down to
>>> just a couple of ohms, which was not enough to overcome the MOV in
>>> series with the coils.  This also allowed the tv itself to be
>>> soft-started, and it worked so well that it was often the major part
>>> failure in the tv for the first 3 or 4 years.
>>>
>>> About 3 or 4 of those, wired in parallel, would also serve as an
>>> inrush limiter when I turn on the power supply for my G0704 mill.
>>> But the parts houses we had locally have all evaporated.  I just
>>> checked a couple surplus places without finding any of those
>>> critters.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have a suggestion as to where a small handfull of these
>>> could be sourced?  Usually bare, they look like a graphite quarter
>>> coin with a lead wire soldered to the middle of a silver plated dot
>>> in the middle of each face.  Usually slightly thicker than a
>>> 'merican quarter.
>> I think you are looking for NTC (Negative Temperature Coefficient).
>> Search brings back numerous links to choose from. However, there are
>> better solutions but cost a bit more of course.
> Yes, and contrary to a previous poster, the name isn't a Surgistor, but
> a "Thermistor" for the NTC component.
Digi-Key has them, but maybe not in a current you want.
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/circuit-protection/inrush-current-limiters-icl/656273?k=ntc%20thermistor

Here's more :
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/sensors-transducers/thermistors-ntc/1966148?k=ntc%20thermistor
>
Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Poor mans soft turnon

2015-12-06 Thread Rafael 


On 12/06/2015 07:25 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
>
> Before tv's lost their crt's, there was a component in the power inlet
> circuit that had a very high negative temp coefficient, which was used
> to create a high voltage drop when it was cold, which in turn forced the
> first few seconds of its power draw after being turned on, thru the
> degaussing coils wrapped around the crt in order to demagnetise it.
>
> That voltage drop heated it, and it got hot enough to get down to just a
> couple of ohms, which was not enough to overcome the MOV in series with
> the coils.  This also allowed the tv itself to be soft-started, and it
> worked so well that it was often the major part failure in the tv for
> the first 3 or 4 years.
>
> About 3 or 4 of those, wired in parallel, would also serve as an inrush
> limiter when I turn on the power supply for my G0704 mill.  But the
> parts houses we had locally have all evaporated.  I just checked a
> couple surplus places without finding any of those critters.
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion as to where a small handfull of these could
> be sourced?  Usually bare, they look like a graphite quarter coin with a
> lead wire soldered to the middle of a silver plated dot in the middle of
> each face.  Usually slightly thicker than a 'merican quarter.
>

I think you are looking for NTC (Negative Temperature Coefficient). 
Search brings back numerous links to choose from. However, there are 
better solutions but cost a bit more of course.

Here is an excellent article/solution I found searching for "inrush 
current limiter":
http://www.edn.com/design/analog/4316203/Simple-and-effective-inrush-current-limiter-stops-surges

Circuit is simple enough to implement it on a generic experimental board.

> When I was setting up the mill, and building that supply, I had wired up
> a 4 plex on the wall behind it, putting it by itself on a 20 amp
> breaker.  Turning it on, trips the 20 instantly as the motor supply has
> a huge amount of microfarads, probably in excess of 80,000 uf, mainly
> because that was the size of the caps I could source, NOS, locally by
> the fine old art of horse trading.

One variation of the above circuit could have a resistor/relay on the 
large capacitors side to limit the inrush current then short the 
resistor when they are at 70%+ voltage.

>
> So, while it draws less than 3 amps with the spindle motor off, and could
> reach 18 if the motor was in a LR state, but it takes a 30 amp breaker
> to withstand the in-rush. If I could find some of these critters,
> building them into that motor supply, I could put the 20 amp breaker
> back in and it wouldn't be quite so ill eagle if an inspector looked it
> over.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>

Greetings from the left coast.

-- 
Rafael

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Re: [Emc-users] linuxcnc 2.7.3 - mesa 7i77 update

2015-12-06 Thread Stephen Dubovsky 
Thank you! Will try it tomorrow evening.
On Dec 6, 2015 11:33 PM, "Marius Alksnys"  wrote:

> Stephen,
>
> you should download "Version 14 serial remote I/O card firmware" from
> www.mesanet.com, under ANYTHING I/O DAUGHTER CARDS, unzip it, and follow
> the README file in sserial/utils/linuxcnc.
>
> So, you will need ssinstall script and a special script, called update7i77
>
> 12/07/2015 06:03 AM, Stephen Dubovsky rašė:
> > Hello all,
> > Upgraded the Ubuntu mill (2.5?) to 2.7.3.  Using a 5i25 & 7i77.  It
> > complained that the 7i77 needed updating.  I found some docs on the forum
> > and updated the 5i25.  But it still complains "hm2/hm2_5i25.0: Warning:
> > sserial remote device 7i77 channel 0 has old firmware that should be
> > updated" (I also get a warning for ch 1.)  How do I update the 7i77
> > firmware?  I moved the jumpers W4 & W12 (?) on the 7i77 like the
> > instructions said to when I updated the 5i25.  Is there something else I
> > have to run besides mesaflash?
> >
> > I had to rerun pncconf to regenerate the hal/ini fles. 2.7.3 crashed on
> the
> > old ones but the new seem fine.  I just opened the old .pncconf files and
> > right-clicked all the way to the last menu and re-saved them.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Stephen
> >
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> >
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor mans soft turnon

2015-12-06 Thread Ken Strauss 
I assume that you mean a Surgistor(TM). You'll find them for very high
prices on eBay (the one currently listed is $25!). Google shows several
places that claim to have them.


> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@wdtv.com]
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 10:26 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] Poor mans soft turnon
>
> Greetings all;
>
> Before tv's lost their crt's, there was a component in the power inlet
circuit
> that had a very high negative temp coefficient, which was used to create a
> high voltage drop when it was cold, which in turn forced the first few
seconds
> of its power draw after being turned on, thru the degaussing coils wrapped
> around the crt in order to demagnetise it.
>
> That voltage drop heated it, and it got hot enough to get down to just a
couple
> of ohms, which was not enough to overcome the MOV in series with the
coils.
> This also allowed the tv itself to be soft-started, and it worked so well
that it
> was often the major part failure in the tv for the first 3 or 4 years.
>
> About 3 or 4 of those, wired in parallel, would also serve as an inrush
limiter
> when I turn on the power supply for my G0704 mill.  But the parts houses
we
> had locally have all evaporated.  I just checked a couple surplus places
without
> finding any of those critters.
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion as to where a small handfull of these could
be
> sourced?  Usually bare, they look like a graphite quarter coin with a lead
wire
> soldered to the middle of a silver plated dot in the middle of each face.
> Usually slightly thicker than a 'merican quarter.
>
> When I was setting up the mill, and building that supply, I had wired up a
4
> plex on the wall behind it, putting it by itself on a 20 amp breaker.
Turning it
> on, trips the 20 instantly as the motor supply has a huge amount of
> microfarads, probably in excess of 80,000 uf, mainly because that was the
size
> of the caps I could source, NOS, locally by the fine old art of horse
trading.
>
> So, while it draws less than 3 amps with the spindle motor off, and could
reach
> 18 if the motor was in a LR state, but it takes a 30 amp breaker to
withstand
> the in-rush. If I could find some of these critters, building them into
that motor
> supply, I could put the 20 amp breaker back in and it wouldn't be quite so
ill
> eagle if an inspector looked it over.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>

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> amazing mobile app experiences with Intel(R) XDK.
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[Emc-users] linuxcnc 2.7.3 - mesa 7i77 update

2015-12-06 Thread Stephen Dubovsky 
Hello all,
Upgraded the Ubuntu mill (2.5?) to 2.7.3.  Using a 5i25 & 7i77.  It
complained that the 7i77 needed updating.  I found some docs on the forum
and updated the 5i25.  But it still complains "hm2/hm2_5i25.0: Warning:
sserial remote device 7i77 channel 0 has old firmware that should be
updated" (I also get a warning for ch 1.)  How do I update the 7i77
firmware?  I moved the jumpers W4 & W12 (?) on the 7i77 like the
instructions said to when I updated the 5i25.  Is there something else I
have to run besides mesaflash?

I had to rerun pncconf to regenerate the hal/ini fles. 2.7.3 crashed on the
old ones but the new seem fine.  I just opened the old .pncconf files and
right-clicked all the way to the last menu and re-saved them.

Thank you,
Stephen
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor mans soft turnon

2015-12-06 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Sunday 06 December 2015 22:57:52 Rafael wrote:

> On 12/06/2015 07:25 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > Before tv's lost their crt's, there was a component in the power
> > inlet circuit that had a very high negative temp coefficient, which
> > was used to create a high voltage drop when it was cold, which in
> > turn forced the first few seconds of its power draw after being
> > turned on, thru the degaussing coils wrapped around the crt in order
> > to demagnetise it.
> >
> > That voltage drop heated it, and it got hot enough to get down to
> > just a couple of ohms, which was not enough to overcome the MOV in
> > series with the coils.  This also allowed the tv itself to be
> > soft-started, and it worked so well that it was often the major part
> > failure in the tv for the first 3 or 4 years.
> >
> > About 3 or 4 of those, wired in parallel, would also serve as an
> > inrush limiter when I turn on the power supply for my G0704 mill. 
> > But the parts houses we had locally have all evaporated.  I just
> > checked a couple surplus places without finding any of those
> > critters.
> >
> > Does anyone have a suggestion as to where a small handfull of these
> > could be sourced?  Usually bare, they look like a graphite quarter
> > coin with a lead wire soldered to the middle of a silver plated dot
> > in the middle of each face.  Usually slightly thicker than a
> > 'merican quarter.
>
> I think you are looking for NTC (Negative Temperature Coefficient).
> Search brings back numerous links to choose from. However, there are
> better solutions but cost a bit more of course.

Yes, and contrary to a previous poster, the name isn't a Surgistor, but 
a "Thermistor" for the NTC component.

> Here is an excellent article/solution I found searching for "inrush
> current limiter":
> http://www.edn.com/design/analog/4316203/Simple-and-effective-inrush-c
>urrent-limiter-stops-surges
>
Unforch, they do not seem to want to feed iceweasel the pdf.

> Circuit is simple enough to implement it on a generic experimental
> board.

Left coast. I assume you are getting in practice at ducking behind 
something solid. :)

Thanks Rafael.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Poor mans soft turnon

2015-12-06 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Monday 07 December 2015 00:01:20 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 12/06/2015 10:42 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 06 December 2015 22:57:52 Rafael wrote:
> >> On 12/06/2015 07:25 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> Greetings all;
> >>>
> >>> Before tv's lost their crt's, there was a component in the power
> >>> inlet circuit that had a very high negative temp coefficient,
> >>> which was used to create a high voltage drop when it was cold,
> >>> which in turn forced the first few seconds of its power draw after
> >>> being turned on, thru the degaussing coils wrapped around the crt
> >>> in order to demagnetise it.
> >>>
> >>> That voltage drop heated it, and it got hot enough to get down to
> >>> just a couple of ohms, which was not enough to overcome the MOV in
> >>> series with the coils.  This also allowed the tv itself to be
> >>> soft-started, and it worked so well that it was often the major
> >>> part failure in the tv for the first 3 or 4 years.
> >>>
> >>> About 3 or 4 of those, wired in parallel, would also serve as an
> >>> inrush limiter when I turn on the power supply for my G0704 mill.
> >>> But the parts houses we had locally have all evaporated.  I just
> >>> checked a couple surplus places without finding any of those
> >>> critters.
> >>>
> >>> Does anyone have a suggestion as to where a small handfull of
> >>> these could be sourced?  Usually bare, they look like a graphite
> >>> quarter coin with a lead wire soldered to the middle of a silver
> >>> plated dot in the middle of each face.  Usually slightly thicker
> >>> than a 'merican quarter.
> >>
> >> I think you are looking for NTC (Negative Temperature Coefficient).
> >> Search brings back numerous links to choose from. However, there
> >> are better solutions but cost a bit more of course.
> >
> > Yes, and contrary to a previous poster, the name isn't a Surgistor,
> > but a "Thermistor" for the NTC component.
>
> Digi-Key has them, but maybe not in a current you want.
> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/circuit-protection/inrush-cur
>rent-limiters-icl/656273?k=ntc%20thermistor
>
> Here's more :
> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/sensors-transducers/thermisto
>rs-ntc/1966148?k=ntc%20thermistor
>
> Jon

Now that I've thought about it, since the loading is highly dependent on 
the spindle motors loading,so the draw can run from about 2.75 amps to 
perhaps 18 or so for locked rotor, at least a 6/1 ratio, the more I 
realize that is the wrong approach.  Far more consistent would be a flat 
time delay, operated by one of the other supplies in that box, rigged to 
put a 8 ohm 20 watt R in series with the line in, for perhaps 1/2 second 
after power on.  That should cut the inrush by at least 50% of its peak 
amperage.  Most time delays I can find are more than 1 second, least I 
found tonight was 6 seconds, and I don't have enough of those 8 ohm 20 
watters to last that long.

I may, when things slow a bit, see about building my own time delay in 
hal.  Maybe even tie it to the charge pump so I can control the power to 
the mill with LCNC.  Use a time delay hal module to gate the charge 
pump, first to power it up, then half a second later to close the relay 
and short the current limiter.  The switched charge pump is controlling 
the vacuum cleaner (older Bucket Max) just fine.  And I still have quite 
a few pins on the 2nd BoB to do that with yet.

Thanks Jon.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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