[Emc-users] how to test output pins?

2017-02-10 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Hello,

I can test input bits with hal show, but how do I test output pins?

That is I need to know parallel port physical pin positions in order to
choose my pin schema and make a correspondence hal pin --> physical pin


Thanks.

Valerio



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Re: [Emc-users] EDM Small Hole Drilling

2017-02-10 Thread Gregg Eshelman
Some googling turned up info on first drilling through with an undersize tool 
then making a grinding pass to finished size.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12541-012-0123-2


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Re: [Emc-users] EDM Small Hole Drilling

2017-02-10 Thread Gregg Eshelman
Small  hole  EDM  (electrical  discharge  machining)  drilling,  also  known  
as  fast  
hole EDM drilling, hole popper, and start hole EDM drilling, was once relegated 
to a “last resort” method of drilling holes. Now, small hole EDM drilling is 
used 
for production work. Drilling speeds have been achieved of up to two inches per 
minute.  Holes  can  be  drilled  in  any  electrical  conductive  material,  
whether  hard  
or soft, including carbide. See Figure 14:1 for various small hole EDM machines.
http://www.reliableedm.com/Complete%20EDM%20Handbook/Complete%20EDM%20Handbook_14.pdf
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM Small Hole Drilling

2017-02-10 Thread TJoseph Powderly

i was surprised how much off the shelf stuff exists
its not impossible to reverse engineer the connections
but a working experience is handy
maybe you know an edm service engineer cum hacker?
the mechanical stuff ( motors spindles pumps ) are too cheap to mess 
with diy
the guides wont be a diy project, drilling holes thru ruby & ceramic 
aint easy )

save up for 1 1kva trafo!
tomp tjtr33
( i _think_ these teeny jpgs will pass the size restrictions on this list )

On 02/11/17 05:58, Comcast wrote:

The laser drilling was the first thing I thought of too.  Pratt & Whitney uses 
this process to drill similar size holes in the turbine blades.  The keep the slag 
out of the holes they fill the interior of the blade with epoxy:  Upon burn through 
the epoxy virtually explodes, blowing and slag or burr-like recast out of the hole.

N. Christopher




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Re: [Emc-users] EDM Small Hole Drilling

2017-02-10 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 10 February 2017 21:54:45 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 02/10/2017 03:59 PM, Jim Craig wrote:
> > So my questions are as follows. What type of power supply would I
> > need to use for doing small hole EDM drilling? Can I use a tig
> > welder as the power supply and control pulsing with LinuxCNC driving
> > an external IGBT?
>
> TIG is constant current, and generally way more than you
> need. IGBTs are good for 400+ Volts, MOSFETs make more sense
> below that.
>
> > Could I use the Mesa THC to control gap of the electrode to the
> > workpiece?
> >
> > It appears that spindles don't need to rotate very fast. What type
> > of rpm do the spindles typically run at?

What I've done is A, rank amateur, and B, at 150 to 200 rpms so as not to 
be pitching the dielectric fluid, usually distilled water, all over.  
But whats the hole diameter and depth again?  If the hole is deep 
compared to the diameter, you'll be going down less than the hole 
diameter before the sludge shorts you out, so figure on doing a peck 
cycle, and figuring out how to flush the hole clean before putting the 
electrode back in the hole. If you can figure out how to feed dielectric 
into the right sized hypo needle, that would keep the hole flushed and 
would cut lots faster. But I've not managed to come up with a workable 
idea for that, I'm usually done by the time I've noodled out an idea I 
could do with what I had on hand. Best idea so far as do a peck, going 
about a thou deeper per peck, and doing the peck at a high enough speed 
to keep the mix well agitated so the sludge would be squirted out on the 
downstroke, and the upstroke would bring fresh water to dilute the 
sludge, in at a high enough speed to keep it well stirred.  Fast its not 
going to be.

The last time I was working in a deep hole, I was burning the center web 
out of a couple broken off in the hole 6-32 taps. IIRC it was much of a 
day for each broken tap cleared out of the hole.  But it still beat 
starting all over by $25 worth of steel and 3 days putzing around to 
make it again.

> The problem is EDM is very slow.  Your holes would take at
> the least, several minutes each.  But, they'd be pretty clean.
> You ought to get in touch with Ben Fleming, he demoed a
> pulser EDM system at some of the CNC workshops in Ann Arbor
> a few years ago.
>
> http://www.homebuiltedmmachines.com/build-a-pulse-edm/
>
> He has a book and a circuit board, and you can build it in a
> couple weekends.  It was VERY cool to watch it work!
>
> Jon
>
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM Small Hole Drilling

2017-02-10 Thread TJoseph Powderly
wow, i gotta look into that epoxy idea,
we just pressurized the cavity with water
and that was a complex jig already!
thx tomp

On 02/11/17 05:58, Comcast wrote:
> The laser drilling was the first thing I thought of too.  Pratt & Whitney 
> uses this process to drill similar size holes in the turbine blades.  The 
> keep the slag out of the holes they fill the interior of the blade with 
> epoxy:  Upon burn through the epoxy virtually explodes, blowing and slag or 
> burr-like recast out of the hole.
>
> N. Christopher
>
>> On Feb 10, 2017, at 5:16 PM, andy pugh  wrote:
>>
>>> On 10 February 2017 at 21:59, Jim Craig  wrote:
>>> The more I think about the actual process and needs of the machine I am
>>> thinking that a small hole EDM drilling head would be better for this
>>> application.
>>
>> Maybe consider lasers (and sharks?) too:
>> https://www.oxfordlasers.com/laser-micromachining/applications/fuel-injector-production/
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> lunatics."
>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM Small Hole Drilling

2017-02-10 Thread TJoseph Powderly
re: other technogies...
if you can drill it, it'll be faster
a good applications engineer from a good company
can read your specs and give you tools and tooling that will do the job
it may be expensive but its pretty guaranteed and even proven on your 
test parts
tomp

On 02/11/17 05:42, Jim Craig wrote:
> On 2/10/2017 4:16 PM, andy pugh wrote:
>> On 10 February 2017 at 21:59, Jim Craig  wrote:
>>> The more I think about the actual process and needs of the machine I am
>>> thinking that a small hole EDM drilling head would be better for this
>>> application.
>> Maybe consider lasers (and sharks?) too:
>> https://www.oxfordlasers.com/laser-micromachining/applications/fuel-injector-production/
>>
>>
> But that would cost 1 million dollars.
>
> Seriously though, lasers are expensive. I actually considered lasers
> first and went back to a regular spindle.
>
> Thanks Andy,
>
> Jim
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM Small Hole Drilling

2017-02-10 Thread TJoseph Powderly
Jim hello
I have worked with a lot of taiwanese hole drills ( hopops for short )

On 02/11/17 04:59, Jim Craig wrote:
> I am working on a project at work where we are designing a new CNC
> machine for a particular application. Up to this point I have been
> planning on using a standard machine spindle.
>
> The more I think about the actual process and needs of the machine I am
> thinking that a small hole EDM drilling head would be better for this
> application.
>
> The application required drilling small 0.050" diameter holes through
> .135" thick stainless steel. The back side of these holes are in an
> annular space that cannot be easily reached for deburring.
ok scale & magnitude in this conversation...
  you say 'small hole' and...
.050 is almost optimum size ( 1mm dia is pretty the optimum for the 
technology)
2mm is difficult, .006 is difficult ( for std cheapo (<20k$) hopops )
> The reason I am contemplating the small hole EDM process is three fold.
> First it is difficult to drill these tiny holes in stainless and the
> drill bits frequently break. Secondly the back side of the hole needs to
> be burr free but is difficult to get to with conventional tools.
scale again... 'burr free'
well edm produces a burr, its small a few thou to 10 thou depending on
energy at breakthru and the system ability to control position well
( hammering thru with bang bang control has larger burr )
to get almost no burr, use a sacrificial plate and burn thru the SS and 
into the sacrifice

>   Third
> the machine could be lighter and simpler if I use EDM vs a standard
> milling head.
the time to burn .050 hole thru 0.1" SS should be near 45seconds
go to a shop to verify, or take a test pc to a sales house

>
> So my questions are as follows. What type of power supply would I need
> to use for doing small hole EDM drilling? Can I use a tig welder as the
> power supply and control pulsing with LinuxCNC driving an external IGBT?
igbt's are not popular/common in commerical units
igbt's have not been driven on and off as clean as individual fets, esp 
the irf series
(its the clean off drop that marks a low wear unit)
irf 540s and up are very very common ( theres a high-v spike due to 
overall system wiring,
things like wire wrapped resistors, cable length etc add capacitance and 
inductance)

the power should be , in _very_ general description...
100V open volts, 0-32 amperes supply in short circuit
the polarity will be negative to tool and the tool will be brass tubing
the on time will be 10 to 50uS and duty cycle 1-50%

since linuxcnc's ability to do stuff quick is limited by thread speed
you wont get better than your fastest thread as a time quantum for spark 
timing
( a 1ms thread period gets you 1ms time divisions, or 2ms with any 
jitter overages )
so plan on a pic ( very common ) or an arduino (fairly easy to hack)

the medium will be tap water, deionizing is not a _large_ benefit
submersing the part will aid in breakthru and less burrs

oh, a 'soft start' at lower current for a couple seconds will reduce 
entry burr.

the tool will be a tube with a .01ish hole thru it
a special feed thru chuck with a rubber seal is used
the rubber seal is pressed by water pressure onto a flange in the 
albrecht like chuck
the water pressure is 900-1500psi but delivered by a simple air driven pump
the pump has a large bore (4-8") and the piston is on a rod that goes 
thru both ends of chamber
this piston cycles back and forth thru the pressure chamber, driven by 
shop air (8bar+)
the cycle is controlled with 2 prox switches sensing a ferrous slug on 
the piston.
the ENDs of this shaft enter small bores at each end of the large bore 
and the ENDs are pistons themselves!
the small ends are sealed for the small bore and in the small bore is water!
this size ratio is the pressure amplification, 100psi in, 1500 psi out, 
stupid and simple
VERY low volume though, we only have a .01 hole to pass thru.
the system is controlled by the 2 prox swxs, so it the piston just 
cycles back and forth,
pumping tiny spoonfuls of hipressure water thru the tiny hole. a leading 
air pressure unit
(drying and pressure regulator) will controll the maximum value, a gauge 
on output leg
can show operator the value. it goes chug chug chug all day long.

After this high pressure water makes it thru all the plumbing restrictions
it isn't strong enuf to do more than dimple your fingertip. any line break
will immediately reduce to water at less that shop air pressure.

oh the thru hole water is neccesary, and as soon as you break thru, its 
LOST.
so the back up plate helps a lot, the submerging helps to a lesser degree

  
Could I use the Mesa THC to control gap of the electrode to the workpiece?

i got a mesa thc but used a hal component and a window comparator myself 
for sink edm
i did not build a hopop supply yet. got lotsa parts tho

the windo comp used a preliminary voltage divider to reduce 100V to 5V
the windo comp had 2 setpoints ( pot adjusted)
the 

Re: [Emc-users] EDM Small Hole Drilling

2017-02-10 Thread Jon Elson
On 02/10/2017 03:59 PM, Jim Craig wrote:
> So my questions are as follows. What type of power supply would I need
> to use for doing small hole EDM drilling? Can I use a tig welder as the
> power supply and control pulsing with LinuxCNC driving an external IGBT?
TIG is constant current, and generally way more than you 
need. IGBTs are good for 400+ Volts, MOSFETs make more sense 
below that.
> Could I use the Mesa THC to control gap of the electrode to the workpiece?
>
> It appears that spindles don't need to rotate very fast. What type of
> rpm do the spindles typically run at?
>
>
The problem is EDM is very slow.  Your holes would take at 
the least, several minutes each.  But, they'd be pretty clean.
You ought to get in touch with Ben Fleming, he demoed a 
pulser EDM system at some of the CNC workshops in Ann Arbor 
a few years ago.

http://www.homebuiltedmmachines.com/build-a-pulse-edm/

He has a book and a circuit board, and you can build it in a 
couple weekends.  It was VERY cool to watch it work!

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Need some guidance on high temp/pressure water circuit

2017-02-10 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 10 February 2017 13:31:37 Nicklas Karlsson wrote:

> Water have very high heat capacity and hence is good for cooling or
> heating. But with water at that temperature I prefer to stay in
> another room.
>
Actually, I'd like to be in a room in the next drainage.

> > use of water vs electrical heaters to _stabilize_ molding
> > temperatures.
> > http://www.ptonline.com/cdn/cms/uploadedFiles/MoldTemperatureControl
> >WhitePaper.pdf tomp
> >
> > On 02/09/17 14:34, Roland Jollivet wrote:
> > > Probably more OT, but is this a very special mould? Or process?
> >
> > 
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Changing the full scale range the pyvcp tach displays

2017-02-10 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 10 February 2017 09:33:15 John Thornton wrote:

> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gui/gladevcp.html
>
> JT
>
Sounds like I need to go back to gfx-101. I might eventually be back for 
fine tuning info.

Thanks John.
 
> On 2/9/2017 7:08 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Thursday 09 February 2017 14:09:14 andy pugh wrote:
> >> On 9 February 2017 at 17:56, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> >>> One of the things I would like to do is to change the full scale
> >>> range of the pyvcp tachometer, which is set in the panel-pyvcp.xml
> >>> file at present.
> >>
> >> I think that the easiest way to do this would be to use a GladeVCP
> >> tachometer.
> >
> > Can you expand on that? I thought th gladevcp thing was a progress
> > bar.
> >
> > Thanks Andy.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM Small Hole Drilling

2017-02-10 Thread Comcast
The laser drilling was the first thing I thought of too.  Pratt & Whitney uses 
this process to drill similar size holes in the turbine blades.  The keep the 
slag out of the holes they fill the interior of the blade with epoxy:  Upon 
burn through the epoxy virtually explodes, blowing and slag or burr-like recast 
out of the hole.

N. Christopher

> On Feb 10, 2017, at 5:16 PM, andy pugh  wrote:
> 
>> On 10 February 2017 at 21:59, Jim Craig  wrote:
>> The more I think about the actual process and needs of the machine I am
>> thinking that a small hole EDM drilling head would be better for this
>> application.
> 
> 
> Maybe consider lasers (and sharks?) too:
> https://www.oxfordlasers.com/laser-micromachining/applications/fuel-injector-production/
> 
> 
> -- 
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM Small Hole Drilling

2017-02-10 Thread Jim Craig
On 2/10/2017 4:16 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 10 February 2017 at 21:59, Jim Craig  wrote:
>> The more I think about the actual process and needs of the machine I am
>> thinking that a small hole EDM drilling head would be better for this
>> application.
>
> Maybe consider lasers (and sharks?) too:
> https://www.oxfordlasers.com/laser-micromachining/applications/fuel-injector-production/
>
>
But that would cost 1 million dollars.

Seriously though, lasers are expensive. I actually considered lasers 
first and went back to a regular spindle.

Thanks Andy,

Jim


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Re: [Emc-users] EDM Small Hole Drilling

2017-02-10 Thread andy pugh
On 10 February 2017 at 21:59, Jim Craig  wrote:
> The more I think about the actual process and needs of the machine I am
> thinking that a small hole EDM drilling head would be better for this
> application.


Maybe consider lasers (and sharks?) too:
https://www.oxfordlasers.com/laser-micromachining/applications/fuel-injector-production/


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Using a homing switch as a limit when not homed

2017-02-10 Thread andy pugh
On 10 February 2017 at 18:48,   wrote:
> I have inductive proximity switches.

They fail too. At least the unfeasibly cheap ones from eBay that I use do.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
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[Emc-users] EDM Small Hole Drilling

2017-02-10 Thread Jim Craig
I am working on a project at work where we are designing a new CNC 
machine for a particular application. Up to this point I have been 
planning on using a standard machine spindle.

The more I think about the actual process and needs of the machine I am 
thinking that a small hole EDM drilling head would be better for this 
application.

The application required drilling small 0.050" diameter holes through 
.135" thick stainless steel. The back side of these holes are in an 
annular space that cannot be easily reached for deburring.

The reason I am contemplating the small hole EDM process is three fold. 
First it is difficult to drill these tiny holes in stainless and the 
drill bits frequently break. Secondly the back side of the hole needs to 
be burr free but is difficult to get to with conventional tools. Third 
the machine could be lighter and simpler if I use EDM vs a standard 
milling head.

So my questions are as follows. What type of power supply would I need 
to use for doing small hole EDM drilling? Can I use a tig welder as the 
power supply and control pulsing with LinuxCNC driving an external IGBT? 
Could I use the Mesa THC to control gap of the electrode to the workpiece?

It appears that spindles don't need to rotate very fast. What type of 
rpm do the spindles typically run at?

That is all for now. I am sure I will have more to come.

Thanks,

Jim


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Re: [Emc-users] Using a homing switch as a limit when not homed

2017-02-10 Thread dannym
I have inductive proximity switches.  Cause I'm that awesome.

Danny

 Nicklas Karlsson  wrote: 
> Electrical switches will eventully fail unless you use special switches which 
> fail in the correct dirction, you could make it run off the screw?
> 
> 
> On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 17:34:17 +
>  wrote:
> 
> > I don't have a physical stop on my Z axis, putting one in would be a PITA.  
> > The drive is exceptionally strong and it would be problematic to stop the 
> > axis that way.  If you're an idiot and jog it that way prior to homing, you 
> > can dismount the axis.
> > 
> > There is a homing switch at Z+.  It sounds desirable to halt + movement 
> > when that switch is tripped, AND not homed, AND not in the actual homing 
> > sequence.  But NOT stop - movement, otherwise you'd jog it upwards, get it 
> > stuck, and no way to jog down.
> > 
> > How difficult would it be to do that?
> > 
> > Danny
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
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Re: [Emc-users] Using a homing switch as a limit when not homed

2017-02-10 Thread Nicklas Karlsson
Electrical switches will eventully fail unless you use special switches which 
fail in the correct dirction, you could make it run off the screw?


On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 17:34:17 +
 wrote:

> I don't have a physical stop on my Z axis, putting one in would be a PITA.  
> The drive is exceptionally strong and it would be problematic to stop the 
> axis that way.  If you're an idiot and jog it that way prior to homing, you 
> can dismount the axis.
> 
> There is a homing switch at Z+.  It sounds desirable to halt + movement when 
> that switch is tripped, AND not homed, AND not in the actual homing sequence. 
>  But NOT stop - movement, otherwise you'd jog it upwards, get it stuck, and 
> no way to jog down.
> 
> How difficult would it be to do that?
> 
> Danny
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Need some guidance on high temp/pressure water circuit

2017-02-10 Thread Nicklas Karlsson
Water have very high heat capacity and hence is good for cooling or heating. 
But with water at that temperature I prefer to stay in another room.

> use of water vs electrical heaters to _stabilize_ molding temperatures.
> http://www.ptonline.com/cdn/cms/uploadedFiles/MoldTemperatureControlWhitePaper.pdf
> tomp
> 
> On 02/09/17 14:34, Roland Jollivet wrote:
> > Probably more OT, but is this a very special mould? Or process?
> >
> >
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Changing the full scale range the pyvcp tach displays

2017-02-10 Thread John Thornton
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gui/gladevcp.html

JT


On 2/9/2017 7:08 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 09 February 2017 14:09:14 andy pugh wrote:
>
>> On 9 February 2017 at 17:56, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>>> One of the things I would like to do is to change the full scale
>>> range of the pyvcp tachometer, which is set in the panel-pyvcp.xml
>>> file at present.
>> I think that the easiest way to do this would be to use a GladeVCP
>> tachometer.
> Can you expand on that? I thought th gladevcp thing was a progress bar.
>
> Thanks Andy.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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