Re: [Emc-users] M. P. Jones has deal on manual pulse generator

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 17 February 2017 23:41:26 linden wrote:

> our thoughts are with you hoping for the best
>
Thanks. I won't do another comment until I know more, its off-topic.

> On 17-02-17 07:47 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> > On 02/17/2017 09:36 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> I didn't bring the missus home from physical therapy
> >> today. The thing she was calling a TIA, looked an awful
> >> lot like a stroke to me. Best I could get them to try and
> >> do was get her into the neuro dept at WVU-Morgantown. Wish
> >> me good luck guys.
> >
> > UGH, sounds scary!  OK, I'm wishing BOTH of you good luck!
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > 
> >-- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] M. P. Jones has deal on manual pulse generator

[linden]

our thoughts are with you hoping for the best


On 17-02-17 07:47 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 02/17/2017 09:36 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> I didn't bring the missus home from physical therapy
>> today. The thing she was calling a TIA, looked an awful
>> lot like a stroke to me. Best I could get them to try and
>> do was get her into the neuro dept at WVU-Morgantown. Wish
>> me good luck guys.
> UGH, sounds scary!  OK, I'm wishing BOTH of you good luck!
>
> Jon
>
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] M. P. Jones has deal on manual pulse generator

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 17 February 2017 22:47:26 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 02/17/2017 09:36 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > I didn't bring the missus home from physical therapy
> > today. The thing she was calling a TIA, looked an awful
> > lot like a stroke to me. Best I could get them to try and
> > do was get her into the neuro dept at WVU-Morgantown. Wish
> > me good luck guys.
>
> UGH, sounds scary!  OK, I'm wishing BOTH of you good luck!
>
> Jon

Thanks Jon. Too many miles on these old joints in the last two weeks, has 
got my game knee wore out and in considerable hip pain which isn't the 
hips, its the pinched sciatic nerve(s both sides). That of course 
doesn't help her, so I keep leaning on the stick to get wherever, but 
sometimes its not too fast.  You do what you have to do, it really is 
that simple.

Take care of you and yours. Orders from grandpa Gene. :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q

[Todd Zuercher]

What i need to do is set up a commanded tool path equivalent to the G41 path, 
and see how that behaves with G64.  I am suspecting that it may actually look 
the same.  I suspect that for the G64 path to "touch" the small arc created by 
G41 The blending ends up just following that path precisely.

- Original Message -
From: "Kurt Jacobson" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 6:20:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q

Craig,

The D word is optional with G41/G42 and is equal to the tool number for
which the path is to be compensated. If a D value is not given explicitly
the value for the currently loaded tool it used. I can't think if an
instance when you would want to compensate for a tool that was not in the
spindle, and it seems like specifying the wrong D would be an easy way to
trash a part! My guess would be that the D word is rarely used with G41/G42.

You might be thinking of G41.1/G42. for which a D value is required, though
in this case the D value is the actual cutter diameter instead the tool
number. I believe Todd is only using G41/G42, so the D value is indeed not
needed.

In the code Todd posted the compensation lead in was greater than the
radius of the tool, so no problem there either.

I don't think this is a bug, I think we may just not quite understand the
way cutter comp combined with an abnormally high value of Q behaves.

I am still mystified as to why blending seems to be disabled with G41/G42
though. I need to so some more experimenting but I took the mill apart
again, so that will have to wait!

Thanks,
Kurt

*Kurt Jacobson, CMfgT*
Mechanical / Manufacturing Engineer
Center for Nuclear Studies | Southern Polytechnic College of Engineering
Kennesaw State University | Marietta Campus
E-mail: kurtcjacob...@gmail.com


On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Craig Hodne  wrote:

> The G41 and G42 require the use of the D-word. The D word refers to the
> line in the tool table where the diameter of the tool is to be read. It
> is often the same line as the tool number, but it doesn't have to be.
> The second qualifier is the travel of the tool from invoking the G41 or
> G42 must be greater than the radius of the tool.
>
> Craig
>
>
> On 02/17/2017 12:44 PM, emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
> > Subject:
> > Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q
> > From:
> > "Todd Zuercher" 
> > Date:
> > 02/17/2017 10:38 AM
> >
> > To:
> > "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> >
> >
> > Another odd bug like behavior I am seeing.
> > Set up a tool in the tool table with an extremely small diameter, load
> that tool, and run the g-code below with the optional block skip on and
> then again with it off.
> >
> > G64
> > G43
> > G0 X1.5 Y.375 Z1
> > /G41
> > G1X1Y.5Z.5
> > G1X0.5
> > G2 X4.5 I2 J0
> > G1 X0.75
> > G0Z1
> > G40
> >
> > Notice how having G41 turned on seems to shut off blending.  Why is that?
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Todd Zuercher"
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 11:25:06 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q
> >
> > The small radius "is" the tool radius, and it was created by Linuxcnc
> when it created the G41 tool offset.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Jim Craig"
> > To:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 9:27:23 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q
> >
> > Todd,
> >
> > Is the  cutter radius larger than the small radius transitioning from
> > the straight line to the semicircle. would this cause the issue?
> > Grasping at straws here as I don't use G41/G42.
> >
> > I guess I don't understand why the small arc radius is being shown at
> > all in white if the below code is the programmed path.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > On 2/16/2017 3:04 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> >> Maybe, it is or isn't a problem.
> >> The g-code is only:
> >>
> >> G43
> >> G0 X1.5 Y.375 Z1
> >> G41
> >> G1X1Y.5Z.5
> >> G1X0.5
> >> G2 X4.5 I2 J0
> >> G1 X0.75
> >> G0Z1
> >> G40
> >>
> >> It runs perfectly fine without the G41 reguardless of the G64 setting.
> I guess the planner must see that arc in the transition from one line to
> the next in G41 and the Q is acting it, even though it isn't actually
> written in the g-code.
> >> Something else to remember when using tool comp.
>
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] M. P. Jones has deal on manual pulse generator

[Jon Elson]

On 02/17/2017 09:36 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> I didn't bring the missus home from physical therapy 
> today. The thing she was calling a TIA, looked an awful 
> lot like a stroke to me. Best I could get them to try and 
> do was get her into the neuro dept at WVU-Morgantown. Wish 
> me good luck guys.
UGH, sounds scary!  OK, I'm wishing BOTH of you good luck!

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] M. P. Jones has deal on manual pulse generator

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 17 February 2017 22:05:31 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 02/13/2017 10:35 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> > M. P. Jones has some 80 mm manual encoders for $19.95.  100
> > pulse/rev, differential output, they don't say anything
> > about detents, but hopefully it has them.  Part # is 33106MI
>
> Even better, they are not 80mm, they are 60 mm, which is a
> VERY nice size for a one-handed pendant you can operate with
> your thumb.
>
> Jon

Why do I think thats better?  But I do.

I didn't bring the missus home from physical therapy today. The thing she 
was calling a TIA, looked an awful lot like a stroke to me. Best I could 
get them to try and do was get her into the neuro dept at 
WVU-Morgantown.  Wish me good luck guys.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: What Is It?

[Erik Christiansen]

On 17.02.17 10:17, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> I know what it is, but while cruising through my pictures I got the 
> notion that these look like a "What Is It" kind of thing. I thought I'd 
> post them just for fun.

Kirk, the patterns arising from the metal transfer are intriguing.
The next question, though, is "What is it for?", and why the
symmetrical sparkgaps?

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] M. P. Jones has deal on manual pulse generator

[Jon Elson]

On 02/13/2017 10:35 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> M. P. Jones has some 80 mm manual encoders for $19.95.  100
> pulse/rev, differential output, they don't say anything
> about detents, but hopefully it has them.  Part # is 33106MI
>
>
Even better, they are not 80mm, they are 60 mm, which is a 
VERY nice size for a one-handed pendant you can operate with 
your thumb.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q

[Kurt Jacobson]

Craig,

The D word is optional with G41/G42 and is equal to the tool number for
which the path is to be compensated. If a D value is not given explicitly
the value for the currently loaded tool it used. I can't think if an
instance when you would want to compensate for a tool that was not in the
spindle, and it seems like specifying the wrong D would be an easy way to
trash a part! My guess would be that the D word is rarely used with G41/G42.

You might be thinking of G41.1/G42. for which a D value is required, though
in this case the D value is the actual cutter diameter instead the tool
number. I believe Todd is only using G41/G42, so the D value is indeed not
needed.

In the code Todd posted the compensation lead in was greater than the
radius of the tool, so no problem there either.

I don't think this is a bug, I think we may just not quite understand the
way cutter comp combined with an abnormally high value of Q behaves.

I am still mystified as to why blending seems to be disabled with G41/G42
though. I need to so some more experimenting but I took the mill apart
again, so that will have to wait!

Thanks,
Kurt

*Kurt Jacobson, CMfgT*
Mechanical / Manufacturing Engineer
Center for Nuclear Studies | Southern Polytechnic College of Engineering
Kennesaw State University | Marietta Campus
E-mail: kurtcjacob...@gmail.com


On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Craig Hodne  wrote:

> The G41 and G42 require the use of the D-word. The D word refers to the
> line in the tool table where the diameter of the tool is to be read. It
> is often the same line as the tool number, but it doesn't have to be.
> The second qualifier is the travel of the tool from invoking the G41 or
> G42 must be greater than the radius of the tool.
>
> Craig
>
>
> On 02/17/2017 12:44 PM, emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
> > Subject:
> > Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q
> > From:
> > "Todd Zuercher" 
> > Date:
> > 02/17/2017 10:38 AM
> >
> > To:
> > "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> >
> >
> > Another odd bug like behavior I am seeing.
> > Set up a tool in the tool table with an extremely small diameter, load
> that tool, and run the g-code below with the optional block skip on and
> then again with it off.
> >
> > G64
> > G43
> > G0 X1.5 Y.375 Z1
> > /G41
> > G1X1Y.5Z.5
> > G1X0.5
> > G2 X4.5 I2 J0
> > G1 X0.75
> > G0Z1
> > G40
> >
> > Notice how having G41 turned on seems to shut off blending.  Why is that?
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Todd Zuercher"
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 11:25:06 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q
> >
> > The small radius "is" the tool radius, and it was created by Linuxcnc
> when it created the G41 tool offset.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Jim Craig"
> > To:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 9:27:23 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q
> >
> > Todd,
> >
> > Is the  cutter radius larger than the small radius transitioning from
> > the straight line to the semicircle. would this cause the issue?
> > Grasping at straws here as I don't use G41/G42.
> >
> > I guess I don't understand why the small arc radius is being shown at
> > all in white if the below code is the programmed path.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > On 2/16/2017 3:04 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> >> Maybe, it is or isn't a problem.
> >> The g-code is only:
> >>
> >> G43
> >> G0 X1.5 Y.375 Z1
> >> G41
> >> G1X1Y.5Z.5
> >> G1X0.5
> >> G2 X4.5 I2 J0
> >> G1 X0.75
> >> G0Z1
> >> G40
> >>
> >> It runs perfectly fine without the G41 reguardless of the G64 setting.
> I guess the planner must see that arc in the transition from one line to
> the next in G41 and the Q is acting it, even though it isn't actually
> written in the g-code.
> >> Something else to remember when using tool comp.
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q

[Craig Hodne]

The G41 and G42 require the use of the D-word. The D word refers to the 
line in the tool table where the diameter of the tool is to be read. It 
is often the same line as the tool number, but it doesn't have to be. 
The second qualifier is the travel of the tool from invoking the G41 or 
G42 must be greater than the radius of the tool.

Craig


On 02/17/2017 12:44 PM, emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
> Subject:
> Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q
> From:
> "Todd Zuercher" 
> Date:
> 02/17/2017 10:38 AM
>
> To:
> "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
>
>
> Another odd bug like behavior I am seeing.
> Set up a tool in the tool table with an extremely small diameter, load that 
> tool, and run the g-code below with the optional block skip on and then again 
> with it off.
>
> G64
> G43
> G0 X1.5 Y.375 Z1
> /G41
> G1X1Y.5Z.5
> G1X0.5
> G2 X4.5 I2 J0
> G1 X0.75
> G0Z1
> G40
>
> Notice how having G41 turned on seems to shut off blending.  Why is that?
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Todd Zuercher"
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 11:25:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q
>
> The small radius "is" the tool radius, and it was created by Linuxcnc when it 
> created the G41 tool offset.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jim Craig"
> To:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 9:27:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q
>
> Todd,
>
> Is the  cutter radius larger than the small radius transitioning from
> the straight line to the semicircle. would this cause the issue?
> Grasping at straws here as I don't use G41/G42.
>
> I guess I don't understand why the small arc radius is being shown at
> all in white if the below code is the programmed path.
>
> Jim
>
> On 2/16/2017 3:04 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
>> Maybe, it is or isn't a problem.
>> The g-code is only:
>>
>> G43
>> G0 X1.5 Y.375 Z1
>> G41
>> G1X1Y.5Z.5
>> G1X0.5
>> G2 X4.5 I2 J0
>> G1 X0.75
>> G0Z1
>> G40
>>
>> It runs perfectly fine without the G41 reguardless of the G64 setting. I 
>> guess the planner must see that arc in the transition from one line to the 
>> next in G41 and the Q is acting it, even though it isn't actually written in 
>> the g-code.
>> Something else to remember when using tool comp.

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: What Is It?

[Dave Caroline]

Classic metal transfer due to the arc

Dave Caroline

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: What Is It?

[Kirk Wallace]

On 02/17/2017 10:27 AM, Bengt Sjölund wrote:
> Sparkgaps

I recall that the second picture (6906) was hard to get. The 
interference was shutting the camera down. I had to back off about 4 
meters, zoom in and crop a lot of the picture. It's fuzzy and still has 
some noise.

>
> Den 2017-02-17 kl. 19:17, skrev Kirk Wallace:
>> I know what it is, but while cruising through my pictures I got the
>> notion that these look like a "What Is It" kind of thing. I thought I'd
>> post them just for fun.
>>
>> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Hobart_Cyber-TIG/dcp_6901.jpg
>> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Hobart_Cyber-TIG/dcp_6906.jpg
>> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Hobart_Cyber-TIG/dcp_6903.jpg
>> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Hobart_Cyber-TIG/
>>
>
>
> --
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>


-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q

[Kurt Jacobson]

Todd,

I just got my machine running again and ran your code. The naive cam
detector algorithm is clearly applied to the compensated path, not the
programmed path. There does not seem to be any point in using the naive cam
detector for hand written programs, though, and even so your part would
come out correctly if the Q was set to a reasonable value.

You are correct that G41 appears to turn off path blending. I wonder why
that is, hopefully somebody will enlighten us as to whether it is a bug or
intentional. I am surprised I had not noticed that as I frequently use very
small (.0005") or negative tool diameters for wear compensation. I do the
tool compensation in CAM.

Kurt
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: What Is It?

[Bengt Sjölund]

Sparkgaps


Den 2017-02-17 kl. 19:17, skrev Kirk Wallace:
> I know what it is, but while cruising through my pictures I got the
> notion that these look like a "What Is It" kind of thing. I thought I'd
> post them just for fun.
>
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Hobart_Cyber-TIG/dcp_6901.jpg
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Hobart_Cyber-TIG/dcp_6906.jpg
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Hobart_Cyber-TIG/dcp_6903.jpg
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Hobart_Cyber-TIG/
>


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[Emc-users] OT: What Is It?

[Kirk Wallace]

I know what it is, but while cruising through my pictures I got the 
notion that these look like a "What Is It" kind of thing. I thought I'd 
post them just for fun.

http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Hobart_Cyber-TIG/dcp_6901.jpg
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Hobart_Cyber-TIG/dcp_6906.jpg
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Hobart_Cyber-TIG/dcp_6903.jpg
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Hobart_Cyber-TIG/

-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q

[Todd Zuercher]

Another odd bug like behavior I am seeing.
Set up a tool in the tool table with an extremely small diameter, load that 
tool, and run the g-code below with the optional block skip on and then again 
with it off.

G64
G43
G0 X1.5 Y.375 Z1
/G41
G1X1Y.5Z.5
G1X0.5
G2 X4.5 I2 J0
G1 X0.75
G0Z1
G40

Notice how having G41 turned on seems to shut off blending.  Why is that?

- Original Message -
From: "Todd Zuercher" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 11:25:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q

The small radius "is" the tool radius, and it was created by Linuxcnc when it 
created the G41 tool offset.

- Original Message -
From: "Jim Craig" 
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 9:27:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q

Todd,

Is the  cutter radius larger than the small radius transitioning from 
the straight line to the semicircle. would this cause the issue? 
Grasping at straws here as I don't use G41/G42.

I guess I don't understand why the small arc radius is being shown at 
all in white if the below code is the programmed path.

Jim

On 2/16/2017 3:04 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> Maybe, it is or isn't a problem.
> The g-code is only:
>
> G43
> G0 X1.5 Y.375 Z1
> G41
> G1X1Y.5Z.5
> G1X0.5
> G2 X4.5 I2 J0
> G1 X0.75
> G0Z1
> G40
>
> It runs perfectly fine without the G41 reguardless of the G64 setting. I 
> guess the planner must see that arc in the transition from one line to the 
> next in G41 and the Q is acting it, even though it isn't actually written in 
> the g-code.
> Something else to remember when using tool comp.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "sam sokolik" 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 3:20:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?
>
> On this post - I showed what happens to a shape as you increase Q
>
> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/linuxcnc-formerly-emc2-/206712-software.html#post1453562
>
> sam
>
> On 2/16/2017 2:11 PM, Kurt Jacobson wrote:
>> OK, I see that you mean now. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand
>> words. (Though that does not seem to hold true when writing an essay for
>> English class!?)
>>
>> I still think naive cam detector is doing exactly what it is suposed to. If
>> the maximum deviation of an arc from a strait line is within Q they are
>> collapsed into a single linear move, which is exactly what I see in your
>> screen dump.
>>
>> Kurt
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Todd Zuercher 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I didn't expect the Naive cam detection to do this.
>>> https://s2.postimg.org/ezy3wjfjt/bug.png
>>> Maybe I am reading the docs wrong.
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Kurt Jacobson" 
>>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:10:26 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?
>>>
>>> I don't really know any thing about this, but I'd say that is the expected
>>> behavior based on the description of G64 Path Blending:
>>>
>>> "On G2/G3 moves in the G17 (XY) plane when the maximum deviation of an arc
>>> from a straight line is less than the G64 P- tolerance the arc is broken
>>> into two lines (from start of arc to midpoint, and from midpoint to end).
>>> those lines are then subject to the naive cam algorithm for lines.[1]"
>>>
>>> It sounds like your Q value is larger than the radius of your compensation
>>> lead out, so the arc is broken up into two line segments. Since these line
>>> segments are within Q of a linear move they are collapsed into one linear
>>> move, and since this linear move is within Q of the original linear move
>>> the whole path is collapsed in to a single linear move which is treated
>>> essentially becomes a long compensation lead out move.
>>>
>>> Just thinking out loud here, again, I am a complete noob so take this with
>>> half a grain of salt.
>>>
>>> [1] http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g61-g61.1
>>>
>>> Kurt
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Todd Zuercher 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I was playing arround with G41 and G42 in a simulation and I think I
>>> might
 have found a bug with the Naive CAM Detection.
 The shape I was simulating was a semi circle with the start/end point on
 the flat side and a single G2 arc move connecting the end points.
 The simulation behaves strangely. With a tool radius of .125" and .25"
>>> and
 staight G64 the tool path precisely followed the path (white and red
>>> lines
 over lapped). With G64P0.001, the same. The expected behavior is cutting
>>> a
 straight line parallel to the programed line offset the tool radius, cut
>>> an
 arc around that end point 

Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q

[Jim Craig]

On 2/17/2017 10:25 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> The small radius "is" the tool radius, and it was created by Linuxcnc when it 
> created the G41 tool offset.
>
Now I am smelling what you are stepping in!

I need to play with this G41/42 stuff just to know what is going on with it.

Jim

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Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q

[Todd Zuercher]

The small radius "is" the tool radius, and it was created by Linuxcnc when it 
created the G41 tool offset.

- Original Message -
From: "Jim Craig" 
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 9:27:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q

Todd,

Is the  cutter radius larger than the small radius transitioning from 
the straight line to the semicircle. would this cause the issue? 
Grasping at straws here as I don't use G41/G42.

I guess I don't understand why the small arc radius is being shown at 
all in white if the below code is the programmed path.

Jim

On 2/16/2017 3:04 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> Maybe, it is or isn't a problem.
> The g-code is only:
>
> G43
> G0 X1.5 Y.375 Z1
> G41
> G1X1Y.5Z.5
> G1X0.5
> G2 X4.5 I2 J0
> G1 X0.75
> G0Z1
> G40
>
> It runs perfectly fine without the G41 reguardless of the G64 setting. I 
> guess the planner must see that arc in the transition from one line to the 
> next in G41 and the Q is acting it, even though it isn't actually written in 
> the g-code.
> Something else to remember when using tool comp.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "sam sokolik" 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 3:20:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?
>
> On this post - I showed what happens to a shape as you increase Q
>
> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/linuxcnc-formerly-emc2-/206712-software.html#post1453562
>
> sam
>
> On 2/16/2017 2:11 PM, Kurt Jacobson wrote:
>> OK, I see that you mean now. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand
>> words. (Though that does not seem to hold true when writing an essay for
>> English class!?)
>>
>> I still think naive cam detector is doing exactly what it is suposed to. If
>> the maximum deviation of an arc from a strait line is within Q they are
>> collapsed into a single linear move, which is exactly what I see in your
>> screen dump.
>>
>> Kurt
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Todd Zuercher 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I didn't expect the Naive cam detection to do this.
>>> https://s2.postimg.org/ezy3wjfjt/bug.png
>>> Maybe I am reading the docs wrong.
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Kurt Jacobson" 
>>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:10:26 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?
>>>
>>> I don't really know any thing about this, but I'd say that is the expected
>>> behavior based on the description of G64 Path Blending:
>>>
>>> "On G2/G3 moves in the G17 (XY) plane when the maximum deviation of an arc
>>> from a straight line is less than the G64 P- tolerance the arc is broken
>>> into two lines (from start of arc to midpoint, and from midpoint to end).
>>> those lines are then subject to the naive cam algorithm for lines.[1]"
>>>
>>> It sounds like your Q value is larger than the radius of your compensation
>>> lead out, so the arc is broken up into two line segments. Since these line
>>> segments are within Q of a linear move they are collapsed into one linear
>>> move, and since this linear move is within Q of the original linear move
>>> the whole path is collapsed in to a single linear move which is treated
>>> essentially becomes a long compensation lead out move.
>>>
>>> Just thinking out loud here, again, I am a complete noob so take this with
>>> half a grain of salt.
>>>
>>> [1] http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g61-g61.1
>>>
>>> Kurt
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Todd Zuercher 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I was playing arround with G41 and G42 in a simulation and I think I
>>> might
 have found a bug with the Naive CAM Detection.
 The shape I was simulating was a semi circle with the start/end point on
 the flat side and a single G2 arc move connecting the end points.
 The simulation behaves strangely. With a tool radius of .125" and .25"
>>> and
 staight G64 the tool path precisely followed the path (white and red
>>> lines
 over lapped). With G64P0.001, the same. The expected behavior is cutting
>>> a
 straight line parallel to the programed line offset the tool radius, cut
>>> an
 arc around that end point to connect to the offset path of the commanded
 arc cut. all good right.
 With G64P0.001Q0.2 there is odd behavior. It moves in a straight line
>>> from
 the beginning of the compensated straight line cut to the begining of the
 compensated arc cut completely ignoring the compensated end point of the
 straight cut. I know having such a large Q setting is a little odd. I
>>> also
 see simular behavior with G64P0.2 (no Q specified, same as Q0.2) only
>>> with
 more rounded corners.
 I seem to see the odd behavior when ever Q is about 2/3 or more than the
 tool diameter.

Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?q

[Jim Craig]

Todd,

Is the  cutter radius larger than the small radius transitioning from 
the straight line to the semicircle. would this cause the issue? 
Grasping at straws here as I don't use G41/G42.

I guess I don't understand why the small arc radius is being shown at 
all in white if the below code is the programmed path.

Jim

On 2/16/2017 3:04 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> Maybe, it is or isn't a problem.
> The g-code is only:
>
> G43
> G0 X1.5 Y.375 Z1
> G41
> G1X1Y.5Z.5
> G1X0.5
> G2 X4.5 I2 J0
> G1 X0.75
> G0Z1
> G40
>
> It runs perfectly fine without the G41 reguardless of the G64 setting. I 
> guess the planner must see that arc in the transition from one line to the 
> next in G41 and the Q is acting it, even though it isn't actually written in 
> the g-code.
> Something else to remember when using tool comp.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "sam sokolik" 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 3:20:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?
>
> On this post - I showed what happens to a shape as you increase Q
>
> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/linuxcnc-formerly-emc2-/206712-software.html#post1453562
>
> sam
>
> On 2/16/2017 2:11 PM, Kurt Jacobson wrote:
>> OK, I see that you mean now. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand
>> words. (Though that does not seem to hold true when writing an essay for
>> English class!?)
>>
>> I still think naive cam detector is doing exactly what it is suposed to. If
>> the maximum deviation of an arc from a strait line is within Q they are
>> collapsed into a single linear move, which is exactly what I see in your
>> screen dump.
>>
>> Kurt
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Todd Zuercher 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I didn't expect the Naive cam detection to do this.
>>> https://s2.postimg.org/ezy3wjfjt/bug.png
>>> Maybe I am reading the docs wrong.
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Kurt Jacobson" 
>>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:10:26 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G41-42 and G64 Bug?
>>>
>>> I don't really know any thing about this, but I'd say that is the expected
>>> behavior based on the description of G64 Path Blending:
>>>
>>> "On G2/G3 moves in the G17 (XY) plane when the maximum deviation of an arc
>>> from a straight line is less than the G64 P- tolerance the arc is broken
>>> into two lines (from start of arc to midpoint, and from midpoint to end).
>>> those lines are then subject to the naive cam algorithm for lines.[1]"
>>>
>>> It sounds like your Q value is larger than the radius of your compensation
>>> lead out, so the arc is broken up into two line segments. Since these line
>>> segments are within Q of a linear move they are collapsed into one linear
>>> move, and since this linear move is within Q of the original linear move
>>> the whole path is collapsed in to a single linear move which is treated
>>> essentially becomes a long compensation lead out move.
>>>
>>> Just thinking out loud here, again, I am a complete noob so take this with
>>> half a grain of salt.
>>>
>>> [1] http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g61-g61.1
>>>
>>> Kurt
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Todd Zuercher 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I was playing arround with G41 and G42 in a simulation and I think I
>>> might
 have found a bug with the Naive CAM Detection.
 The shape I was simulating was a semi circle with the start/end point on
 the flat side and a single G2 arc move connecting the end points.
 The simulation behaves strangely. With a tool radius of .125" and .25"
>>> and
 staight G64 the tool path precisely followed the path (white and red
>>> lines
 over lapped). With G64P0.001, the same. The expected behavior is cutting
>>> a
 straight line parallel to the programed line offset the tool radius, cut
>>> an
 arc around that end point to connect to the offset path of the commanded
 arc cut. all good right.
 With G64P0.001Q0.2 there is odd behavior. It moves in a straight line
>>> from
 the beginning of the compensated straight line cut to the begining of the
 compensated arc cut completely ignoring the compensated end point of the
 straight cut. I know having such a large Q setting is a little odd. I
>>> also
 see simular behavior with G64P0.2 (no Q specified, same as Q0.2) only
>>> with
 more rounded corners.
 I seem to see the odd behavior when ever Q is about 2/3 or more than the
 tool diameter.

 --

 

 Todd Zuercher
 mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com

 
 
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