[Emc-users] MDI edit/UI question

[David Berndt]

Maybe this is an easy one, maybe not.

When using axis in standard config, on the mdi screen, if you've selected  
the "MDI Command" text box, you can use the up/down arrows to scroll  
through the history, enter to run the currently selected history command,  
and if you use the mouse to click on a history command/the MDI Command box  
when a history command is selected you can edit the history command and  
then run it.


What is currently driving me bananas is.. How do you get into the  
"edit" mode when selecting a history command without using the mouse? In  
my experience, simply pressing end key might do it, or f2, maybe f6, right  
arrow, anything? Nothing I seem to press does it short of getting out the  
mouse. As my current mouse setup is to leave the mouse hanging off the  
back of the control cabinet, and occasionally stepping on it or kicking it  
across the garage it's not the most convenient thing, I try to avoid it...


Help..? I'm sure the answer is obvious to some other folks.

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Re: [Emc-users] Huanyang vfd reverse

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 21 August 2017 16:19:52 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Monday 21 August 2017 15:31:41 David Berndt wrote:
> > On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 18:09:20 -0400, Gene Heskett
> > 
> >
> > wrote:
> > > On Sunday 20 August 2017 03:40:56 David Berndt wrote:
> > >> I'm having some issues commissioning my HY VFD. 4kw unit driving
> > >> a 5hp 3450rpm motor at 30hz max frequency (temporary 2 pole
> > >> motor, 4 pole motor is in the mail). Works great in "forward",
> > >> but when it accels in reverse it trips out and throws an E.OC.N
> > >> error. Which appears to be an over current error.
> > >>
> > >> I've flipped 2 leads to the motor, reversing the physical
> > >> rotation and it still works great in vfd "forward", proving that
> > >> the motor and mechanical aspects work in both directions. But the
> > >> VFD does not. Accel times are quite conservative/slow. Problem
> > >> happens about 1 second into acceleration. No clue There don't
> > >> seem to be any relevant settings. Problem happens regardless of
> > >> control method, modbus or operator panel.
> > >>
> > >> Unrelated, but wow, at low speeds this VFD seems to throw off a
> > >> ton of interference. The symptom I've noticed is that my usb
> > >> mouse connected to the PC in the control cabinet that also houses
> > >> the VFD basically gives up on life if the motor is running below
> > >> 15hz. USB dongle modbus was fairly impacted as well until I
> > >> grounded the cable shield to the pc case.
> > >
> > > I had noise worse than the coaches megaphone, so I put a 20 amp
> > > rated Corcom brick wall in the AC line feed.  Works a treat.
> >
> > Any particular series you picked? Does it really matter? I assume
> > some filtering, even one of the corcom filters rated as general
> > purpose would be better in front of the vfd than nothing at all?
> >
> > >> Just to make this slighlty more on topic. Is there a config
> > >> somewhere for maximum spindle RPM? With the drive configured
> > >> correctly it won't overspeed the motor, but it would be nice if
> > >> the software was aware of a top end for spindle speed as well.
> > >
> > > What are you using for an interface between the pwm (or pdm) gen,
> > > I am assuming the pwmgen is in a mesa interface card?.
> >
> > It's just a usb to modbus dongle. So the hy_vfd user componenet.  I
> > realize there are ways to solve this in HAL but none of them seem to
> > enforce the same way softlimits do, or I'm doing something wrong.
> > I'm looking for something that will throw an error and power off the
> > machine g-code sets and S command too high, or the manual control
> > screen is used to set the rpm too high (ideally the interface would
> > just stop increasing the spindle speed once it hits the max...).
> >
> > > I had been assured by the ebay critter that sold me the 1.5 hp
> > > vfd, hooked to a 1 horse 3 phase motor from a 30 yo compressor,
> > > that the analog input filtering was good and that I could feed the
> > > analog input (0 <-> 5 volt range, it has both 5 volt and 10 volt
> > > inputs) directly from the pwm generator, but I was unable to get
> > > good smooth control.
> > >
> > > My motor is a 4 pole, and at light load it has been spun north of
> > > 7K rpms.  No damage if the internal fans don't throw blades, but
> > > because of motor winding inductance, current draw is well under an
> > > amp/phase so usable torque is an oxymoron, there isn't much.
> > > Practical limit for my setup is about 140hz. From 8hz to 140hz
> > > doesn't make me switch drive belts from 1st gear, no backgear.
> >
> > I don't plan to run a great range of motor speeds, but getting it up
> > to 90hz to pickup some spindle speed would be nice if the gearing
> > and spindle will take it. On the low end, if something like 20-30hz
> > would be usable I'd probably be satisfied, just enough to limit
> > trips ot the back of the machine to throw gear select levers.
>
> In my counterfeit vfd, I do have max and min frequency settings,
> anything above max from the computer is limited to that, and I'd
> expect you'ed be fine with a 140 HZ maz.  Below the min, it shows on
> the display but doesn't actually power the motor until the requested
> speed is above whatever minimum you've set in the vfd. Mine does have
> a modbus port, but I'd expect that to be similarly limited.
>
Correction since my ride has not appeared yet, my vfd does NOT have a 
modbuss port, not even a place on the pcb's to solder one in.

> Down on the creep end, I am not using enough low speed torque boost to
> feed the motor more that its nameplate FLA*1.2, primarily because at
> those speeds the motors internal fan is worthless. And I
> subconsciously limit that on time to whats reasonable for motor temps
> 20 minutes por so before I cop a feel, as this motor has only 40% of
> the mass the 3/4 hp I took out, so it heats faster.  So far so good.
> :) But I've a spare just like it.  One of those the price was too good
> not to buy both of them 

Re: [Emc-users] Huanyang vfd reverse

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 21 August 2017 15:31:41 David Berndt wrote:

> On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 18:09:20 -0400, Gene Heskett
> 
>
> wrote:
> > On Sunday 20 August 2017 03:40:56 David Berndt wrote:
> >> I'm having some issues commissioning my HY VFD. 4kw unit driving a
> >> 5hp 3450rpm motor at 30hz max frequency (temporary 2 pole motor, 4
> >> pole motor is in the mail). Works great in "forward", but when it
> >> accels in reverse it trips out and throws an E.OC.N error. Which
> >> appears to be an over current error.
> >>
> >> I've flipped 2 leads to the motor, reversing the physical rotation
> >> and it still works great in vfd "forward", proving that the motor
> >> and mechanical aspects work in both directions. But the VFD does
> >> not. Accel times are quite conservative/slow. Problem happens about
> >> 1 second into acceleration. No clue There don't seem to be any
> >> relevant settings. Problem happens regardless of control method,
> >> modbus or operator panel.
> >>
> >> Unrelated, but wow, at low speeds this VFD seems to throw off a ton
> >> of interference. The symptom I've noticed is that my usb mouse
> >> connected to the PC in the control cabinet that also houses the VFD
> >> basically gives up on life if the motor is running below 15hz. USB
> >> dongle modbus was fairly impacted as well until I grounded the
> >> cable shield to the pc case.
> >
> > I had noise worse than the coaches megaphone, so I put a 20 amp
> > rated Corcom brick wall in the AC line feed.  Works a treat.
>
> Any particular series you picked? Does it really matter? I assume some
> filtering, even one of the corcom filters rated as general purpose
> would be better in front of the vfd than nothing at all?
>
> >> Just to make this slighlty more on topic. Is there a config
> >> somewhere for maximum spindle RPM? With the drive configured
> >> correctly it won't overspeed the motor, but it would be nice if the
> >> software was aware of a top end for spindle speed as well.
> >
> > What are you using for an interface between the pwm (or pdm) gen, I
> > am assuming the pwmgen is in a mesa interface card?.
>
> It's just a usb to modbus dongle. So the hy_vfd user componenet.  I
> realize there are ways to solve this in HAL but none of them seem to
> enforce the same way softlimits do, or I'm doing something wrong. I'm
> looking for something that will throw an error and power off the
> machine g-code sets and S command too high, or the manual control
> screen is used to set the rpm too high (ideally the interface would
> just stop increasing the spindle speed once it hits the max...).
>
> > I had been assured by the ebay critter that sold me the 1.5 hp vfd,
> > hooked to a 1 horse 3 phase motor from a 30 yo compressor, that the
> > analog input filtering was good and that I could feed the analog
> > input (0 <-> 5 volt range, it has both 5 volt and 10 volt inputs)
> > directly from the pwm generator, but I was unable to get good smooth
> > control.
> >
> > My motor is a 4 pole, and at light load it has been spun north of 7K
> > rpms.  No damage if the internal fans don't throw blades, but
> > because of motor winding inductance, current draw is well under an
> > amp/phase so usable torque is an oxymoron, there isn't much.
> > Practical limit for my setup is about 140hz. From 8hz to 140hz
> > doesn't make me switch drive belts from 1st gear, no backgear.
>
> I don't plan to run a great range of motor speeds, but getting it up
> to 90hz to pickup some spindle speed would be nice if the gearing and
> spindle will take it. On the low end, if something like 20-30hz would
> be usable I'd probably be satisfied, just enough to limit trips ot the
> back of the machine to throw gear select levers.

In my counterfeit vfd, I do have max and min frequency settings, anything above 
max from the computer is limited to that, and I'd expect you'ed be fine with a 
140 HZ maz.  Below the min, it shows on the display but doesn't actually power 
the motor until the requested speed is above whatever minimum you've set in the 
vfd. Mine does have a modbus port, but I'd expect that to be similarly limited.

Down on the creep end, I am not using enough low speed torque boost to feed the 
motor more that its nameplate FLA*1.2, primarily because at those speeds the 
motors internal fan is worthless. And I subconsciously limit that on time to 
whats reasonable for motor temps 20 minutes por so before I cop a feel, as this 
motor has only 40% of the mass the 3/4 hp I took out, so it heats faster.  So 
far so good. :) But I've a spare just like it.  One of those the price was too 
good not to buy both of them deals.

As for accel and decel times, cut them in half, try it, and keep cutting the 
times until it errors, then add a second at a time until it quits erroring. I 
can do a full reverse with about 1 turn of overshoot ( I have some hal trickery 
that gives me the overshoot in encoder edges ) at 200 chuck rpms.  Thats quick 
enough to do rigid 

Re: [Emc-users] Huanyang vfd reverse

[David Berndt]

On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 18:09:20 -0400, Gene Heskett   
wrote:



On Sunday 20 August 2017 03:40:56 David Berndt wrote:


I'm having some issues commissioning my HY VFD. 4kw unit driving a 5hp
3450rpm motor at 30hz max frequency (temporary 2 pole motor, 4 pole
motor is in the mail). Works great in "forward", but when it accels in
reverse it trips out and throws an E.OC.N error. Which appears to be
an over current error.

I've flipped 2 leads to the motor, reversing the physical rotation and
it still works great in vfd "forward", proving that the motor and
mechanical aspects work in both directions. But the VFD does not.
Accel times are quite conservative/slow. Problem happens about 1
second into acceleration. No clue There don't seem to be any
relevant settings. Problem happens regardless of control method,
modbus or operator panel.

Unrelated, but wow, at low speeds this VFD seems to throw off a ton of
interference. The symptom I've noticed is that my usb mouse connected
to the PC in the control cabinet that also houses the VFD basically
gives up on life if the motor is running below 15hz. USB dongle modbus
was fairly impacted as well until I grounded the cable shield to the
pc case.


I had noise worse than the coaches megaphone, so I put a 20 amp rated
Corcom brick wall in the AC line feed.  Works a treat.


Any particular series you picked? Does it really matter? I assume some  
filtering, even one of the corcom filters rated as general purpose would  
be better in front of the vfd than nothing at all?





Just to make this slighlty more on topic. Is there a config somewhere
for maximum spindle RPM? With the drive configured correctly it won't
overspeed the motor, but it would be nice if the software was aware of
a top end for spindle speed as well.


What are you using for an interface between the pwm (or pdm) gen, I am
assuming the pwmgen is in a mesa interface card?.



It's just a usb to modbus dongle. So the hy_vfd user componenet.  I  
realize there are ways to solve this in HAL but none of them seem to  
enforce the same way softlimits do, or I'm doing something wrong. I'm  
looking for something that will throw an error and power off the machine  
g-code sets and S command too high, or the manual control screen is used  
to set the rpm too high (ideally the interface would just stop increasing  
the spindle speed once it hits the max...).





I had been assured by the ebay critter that sold me the 1.5 hp vfd,
hooked to a 1 horse 3 phase motor from a 30 yo compressor, that the
analog input filtering was good and that I could feed the analog input
(0 <-> 5 volt range, it has both 5 volt and 10 volt inputs) directly
from the pwm generator, but I was unable to get good smooth control.

My motor is a 4 pole, and at light load it has been spun north of 7K
rpms.  No damage if the internal fans don't throw blades, but because of
motor winding inductance, current draw is well under an amp/phase so
usable torque is an oxymoron, there isn't much. Practical limit for my
setup is about 140hz. From 8hz to 140hz doesn't make me switch drive
belts from 1st gear, no backgear.


I don't plan to run a great range of motor speeds, but getting it up to  
90hz to pickup some spindle speed would be nice if the gearing and spindle  
will take it. On the low end, if something like 20-30hz would be usable  
I'd probably be satisfied, just enough to limit trips ot the back of the  
machine to throw gear select levers.




I had a mesa spinx-1 I had taken out of TLM because I was putting in a 40
lb supply and one of Jon's (Pico Systems pwm-servo amplifiers, great
device BTW), so I pulled it out and hooked it up.  Works Perfect.  With
a bit of tuning in the vfd, I can even do rigid tapping on the old grey
Sheldon up to around 200-250 spindle rpms. Above that and the overshoot
at reversal exceeds a full turn of the chuck.

The spinx-1 needs separate fwd and rev signals, not a problem to hack
that in your .hal file, but yell if you need some snippets of hal code,
I might be able to help.


Thanks,
Dave



Cheers, Gene Heskett



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Re: [Emc-users] Huanyang vfd reverse

[David Berndt]

Yes, That's my second reset.

On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 14:50:47 -0400, Eric Keller  wrote:

Had you done that before?  Resetting the drive is the first step in all  
the

directions that I have seen.
I'm happy with mine, but I wish I could add an external braking resistor.

On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 10:45 AM, David Berndt   
wrote:



Sigh, resetting the drive to defaults cured the reverse issue. No idea
what setting could have been set to cause some sort of a reverse bias  
or ??

issue.


On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 03:40:56 -0400, David Berndt 
wrote:

I'm having some issues commissioning my HY VFD. 4kw unit driving a 5hp
3450rpm motor at 30hz max frequency (temporary 2 pole motor, 4 pole  
motor
is in the mail). Works great in "forward", but when it accels in  
reverse it
trips out and throws an E.OC.N error. Which appears to be an over  
current

error.

I've flipped 2 leads to the motor, reversing the physical rotation and  
it
still works great in vfd "forward", proving that the motor and  
mechanical

aspects work in both directions. But the VFD does not. Accel times are
quite conservative/slow. Problem happens about 1 second into  
acceleration.
No clue There don't seem to be any relevant settings. Problem  
happens

regardless of control method, modbus or operator panel.

Unrelated, but wow, at low speeds this VFD seems to throw off a ton of
interference. The symptom I've noticed is that my usb mouse connected  
to
the PC in the control cabinet that also houses the VFD basically gives  
up
on life if the motor is running below 15hz. USB dongle modbus was  
fairly

impacted as well until I grounded the cable shield to the pc case.

Just to make this slighlty more on topic. Is there a config somewhere  
for
maximum spindle RPM? With the drive configured correctly it won't  
overspeed
the motor, but it would be nice if the software was aware of a top end  
for

spindle speed as well.


Thanks,
Dave


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[Emc-users] Fwd: Inconsistent documentation?

[Stuart Stevenson]

Gentlemen,

Using the search "linuxcnc gcode" in a browser I see the Quick Code
Reference.

The G81 reference shows a possible P symbol.
When you click the G81 link the information there is no shown P symbol.
The latest 2.7 release doesn't allow a P symbol on the G81 line.

The G82 Quick Code Reference shows the P symbol also.
The G82 link shows the P symbol also.
The latest 2.7 release allows the use of the P symbol.

The G85 has the same inconsistency as the G81 and the same result on the
control.

The G86 works like the G82.

thanks
Stuart

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[Emc-users] Inconsistent documentation?

[Stuart Stevenson]

Gentlemen,

Using the search "linuxcnc gcode" in a browser I see the Quick Code
Reference.

The G81 reference shows a possible P symbol.
When you click the G81 link the information there is no shown P symbol.
The latest 2.7 release doesn't allow a P symbol on the G81 line.

The G82 Quick Code Reference shows the P symbol also.
The G82 link shows the P symbol also.
The latest 2.7 release allows the use of the P symbol.

The G85 has the same inconsistency as the G81 and the same result on the
control.

The G86 works like the G82.

thanks
Stuart


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