Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Greg Bernard]

Thanks once again, Jon. I've slowly been coming to the same conclusion,
though lacking the detailed knowledge as you. The part that concerns me the
most however is your caveat of being "run by a competent organization". ;)


On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 7:31 PM Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 03/10/2019 04:16 PM, Greg Bernard wrote:
> > Interesting stuff, Jon. Didn't know about the ongoing cleanup at Three
> Mile
> > but it doesn't surprise me. Now I'm going to put you on the spot. Given
> our
> > current need for carbon-free energy, do you see nuclear as a viable
> option?
> >
> >
> Yes!  If a properly designed and built nuclear plant is run
> by a competent organization, I think they make a lot of
> sense.  The French have been using nuclear power almost
> exclusively for 40 years, and their plants are WAY more
> modern than ours.  They use a lot of gas-cooled reactors,
> which solve a WHOLE bunch of potential problems (loss of
> coolant and corrosion, mostly) and those have been doing
> just fine for years.
>
> We ought to rethink nuclear, and start using the newest
> technology. While it is not totally clean or risk-free, it
> is a lot cleaner than coal (which ALSO releases
> radioactivity into the atmosphere).
>
> Jon
>
>
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-- 
"Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world
is either a madman or an economist."
-Kenneth Boulding, economist
Corporations are NOT people and money is NOT speech!

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Re: [Emc-users] linuxcnc brain surgery

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 11 March 2019 00:07:24 TJoseph Powderly wrote:

> https://ciis.lcsr.jhu.edu/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=courses:446:2016:446-20
>16-18:project_18_main_page but where does the LinuxCNC Rocket Science
> class meet?

Taint rocket science. This would be wrapping 3d trace data up, probably 
with some transposing between a 5 or 6 axis autoscan, and in this case a 
kins translation because the actual part could be done in a 3 axis + 
rotary table.

But the translation will have to be canned code, and taking the raw data 
to drive it may take more than the 80 minutes depending of coarse on how 
accurate it needs to be. .010 is probably not possible, but 1/16", which 
since they are growing bone to fill the gaps anyway, does seem to be 
doable once the translation code is written.

There may be problems associated with the OR sterility requirements. I 
used to know a neuro-surgeon whose OR costs were 2x most others, he 
operated in special order western boots, but the autoclave was hell on 
the boots. His home was on Rapid Creek, and he was home the night of 
June 9th, 1972. The only thing left was the slab the house sat on. His 
body was never found. One of 272 that didn't make it thru that night. 
Roy Crowder was a good man. He had the task of telling me my wife was 
dieing 3 years earlier, and did it by putting the xrays on the light box 
to show me just how serious it was. I looked at the pix for perhaps 15 
seconds and allowed as how I'd better call the kin. His answer was yes, 
I don't have the tools to do anything about it, with tears rolling down 
his cheeks. He never sent me a bill, and neither did St Josephs.

> pretty cool kins too
> tomp
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Erik Christiansen]

On 10.03.19 21:24, Rafael Skodlar wrote:
> Only profiteers that pay off soviet style politicians. You want a "solar
> company" to use your roof rent free and claim you have a profit? What about
> roof leaks, 

Here in Australia factory painted galvanised steel sheet roofing is
popular in rural areas. (I have it here in town too.) The new build too
will use Klip-Lok, which has no penetrations for fixing, so no
possibility of a leak - certainly none experienced in 30 years. The
profile chosen for the new build fits a commercial PV array clamp, so no
penetrations for the solar array either.

I figure that the array output cables can go up under the ridge capping,
so no penetration for wiring either.

The full benefit of solar is now only achieved through self consumption,
as the years of generous feed-in tariffs have ended here. If on-grid, a
modest FIT nevertheless allows the grid to substitute for a battery. In
that case, a physical battery is not yet fully competitive cost-wise.

But off-grid is another equation altogether, with a very positive
outlook.

Erik


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Rafael Skodlar]

On 3/10/19 2:12 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

California, where I live passed a law that the electric grid be
powered by 100% renewable energy.   Some said it was a dream but
economic forces are already  such that the plan is ahead of schedule.
Last year for a few days the grid over 50% renewable


CA dictatorship is going to bring us to Venezuela life style very soon. 
These idiots don't have a clue what they are legislating. This is first 
winter in over 30 years I haven't seen sun for more than few hours since 
Christmas. Keep dreaming about solar in case like that.



You get about 17 megawatt hours ($2800 at my current rate) from one
$400 panel before the 20 year  warranty expires.  That is a 30% rate
of return on the initial investment.   Itis no wonder that Telsa is
offering to place panels on your roof for free, but they retain
ownership of the panels.  They just want your roof.A 30% return on
investment look good to them.


That's a lot of bull. People don't have a clue how solar panels are 
produced, how much lead is in them, and how are they disposed after they 
stop generating any electricity.




THere is also a law requiring panels of every new home.With a law
making everyone by pannels and a company in effect offring to give to
away free the market will "explode".


That's how communist regime dictated all kind of crap when I grew up 
under it. They have yet to build a sewer system in the area I come from.



Can fusion compete economically.   It's hard with the competitor is free solar.

What to invest in?  Easy energy storage.  With nearly free daytime
power and expensive night time power the idea is to buy power inthe
daytime and sell it at night.   Local utilities doths, we have a few
reservoirs where the power company pumps water up hill when the cost
of power is low and then runs the water to a lower reservoir and sells
the hydro-power when the cost is high.   Re-use the water a few times.


How about water dams that were producing electricity but they blew them 
up so that salmon can swim upstream again?



 Tesla is sells every battery they can build both to end users and
power utility companies.   They make LiPo battery banks as large as
shipping containers.   The economic incentive is "insane"  The "buy
low sell high" cycle is very predictable and you make a 50% per day
profit on buying and selling power based on time of use.


How clean is that when Tesla car explodes on the road or in some garage? 
Remember they are subsidized in large part by taxpayers. What about 
mining for minerals used in batteries or solar panels in South America 
or China? CA hypocrites offset pollution to poorer parts of the world. 
They collect old PCs and ship them to Africa for dismantling in 
unhealthy conditions.


Not far from T plant used to be Solyndra, a company just a bikeride 
north of my home few years ago. Potus made a big speech in front of it, 
now it's long gone together with politicians that pocketed $$$ before 
little investors realized what happened.



Fusion will be expensive and solar is already making people a ton of


Only profiteers that pay off soviet style politicians. You want a "solar 
company" to use your roof rent free and claim you have a profit? What 
about roof leaks, cleaning, etc. I have yet to see that happen for free. 
Talked to a number of panel installers etc. Nobody is paying for using 
your roof. It's a scam in large part for people to add to their house 
mortgage. What good is "free solar power" on my house when I go to work 
but have no way to store it for evening use?


I bought 5 panels a few years ago, but clueless neighbor let palm tree 
grow tall enough for shadow to creep on my side!



money.   There will be a use for fusion power but it is at least 50
years away and by then most of the world will be on renewable power.


What the hell is renewable power? There is no such thing. Energy is only 
transferred from one form to another. Some transformations are more 
effective and profitable than other.



But yes, there will always be a need for baseload especially as cars
go electric after the bans on gas cars take effect.   The
electricication of the entire transport system will keep the demand
side going.


That makes no sense. Try to drive from CA to Alaska, Nevada, Utah, and 
more with electric car! Hybrid in some areas perhaps but battery powered 
no way. Inventors should be rewarded instead of punishing regular folks 
for using what's working for them.


They started to build "fast train from SF to LA" that's now falling 
apart. Public transportation in Silicon Valley is awful! Train extension 
BART from SF to South Bay is under construction for over 2 years. All I 
see is lights in the parking structures and railroad but no trains.


Based on what I see on TV, Japan is the only country in the world that 
knows how to modernize trains or build new ones. Others go there to see 
how to do it.


This OT is way too long. I wish we spend time 

Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill --> boot loader

[Kirk Wallace]

On 3/10/19 6:25 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
Thank you for the tips. I was hoping to make a webpage documenting what 
I have tried so far in more detail. Maybe it will get done tonight. 


Just in case of interest, here is what I have started:

http://wallacecompany.com/STM32_Blue_Pill/




--
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 10 March 2019 22:57:02 Przemek Klosowski wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 10:26 PM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> >  Leave it to humans with no concept of common sense, but lots of
> > don't rock the boat
> > rules and you get TMI, Chernobyl, and Fukushima. And probably 100
> > more lessor 'accidents' we haven't been told about.
>
> Gene, this is just not the case. There's no way that 'lesser nuclear
> accidents'  are covered up, unless you include people falling off
> ladders and such. Accidents with release of radioactivity are super
> easy to detect, and so rather hard to cover up.
>
> Plus, one serious coal mine disaster (e.g. our 2010 Upper Big Branch
> Mine, 29 deaths) has about similar number of fatalities as all these
> nuclear disasters (the official counts are TMI = 0, Chernobyl = 31,
> Fukushima = 0). There are good reasons why coal mining has a
> reputation of one of the most dangerous jobs there are. Read
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_accident and
> weep.
>
> Of course on top of direct accident deaths due to nuclear industry
> accidents there's mortality due to long-term radiation effects, but if
> you count those, it's only fair to count black lung deaths among
> miners as well, and all the deaths due to smog pollution.

Absolutely.  And that puts coal in a very bad but bright to the point of 
blinding, light.

> You have a point that lots of rules limit progress in nuclear
> industry, but these rules do have an impressive track record for
> safety. We don't put new cheaper parts on airplanes, either, and for a
> good reason. This reminds me that I once met some guys that watch FAA
> advisories and figure out what spare parts they cover, then buy all
> available supply of these parts. The sheer evil genius of their
> business plan left me speechless---leave it to the free market forces
> to find a way to profit; but if the alternative is to do away with FAA
> regulations, I am OK with the speculators.

Humph, I know where there is a little 500C they'd pull the flight perms 
in a heartbeat on. The thing has a pwm dash light dimmer.  The main 
switching transistor failed so he couldn't fly it at night. 2 hours on 
his kitchen table one morning when I needed a ride, a better rated 
transistor was put in it, gooped and glued down for antivibration, and 
given a good coat of waterproofing varnish. Left it on the kitchen table 
to cure the goop while he tried to take me where I needed to get, failed 
as the wind at the landing site was probably well north of 60 mph and 
everytime the blade cleared the mountaintop we were thrown 3k feet away 
into stiller air.

So we gave that idea up, put down in his back yard and I put the dimmer 
back in, then called the power folks in Naturita who had a snowcat and 
they needed a good excuse to go read the meter on the microwave shack 
since it had been about 6 months. Killed 2 birds, and the weather was 
more co-operative the next day. But I'd be willing to bet that barring 
another really shorted bulb, which blew the OEM transistor, and which 
the transistor I put in finished blowing that bulb 50 milliseconds after 
it was powered up again without failing itself, that dimmer is still 
working as designed 50 years later.  That dimmer, if repaired or 
replaced and installed by a licensed A mech with a chopper cert was 
over $1000 in 1978.  The transistor I used cost less than the batter he 
used to make us breakfast pancakes that morning.

One thing about frozen stuff like that dash dimmer, if I have to modify 
it to make it dependable, it gets modified to stand up to blowing its 
src fuse or tripping its breaker without it failing again.  Best way to 
hide your tracks is to never give them an excuse to compare what they 
are looking at with the OEM certified part because they have to replace 
it. FWIW, the failure mode of most dashboard sized incandescent lamps is 
not an instant open, but an instant open followed quickly by the short 
of a sagging filament coming in contact with its support wires, and to 
finish blowing, the circuit often has to supply several times the normal 
current to finish blowing the lamp. But the folks who design such stuff 
don't know that, so it never gets anywhere near their calculator.

Besides, I expect there is a statute of limitations that expired decades 
ago, so now it can be told. With the per flying hour maintenance costs 
of a 500C over $200/hr in 1978, its probably been scrapped by now.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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[Emc-users] linuxcnc brain surgery

[TJoseph Powderly]

https://ciis.lcsr.jhu.edu/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=courses:446:2016:446-2016-18:project_18_main_page
but where does the LinuxCNC Rocket Science class meet?
pretty cool kins too
tomp



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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Jon Elson]

On 03/10/2019 09:57 PM, Przemek Klosowski wrote:

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 10:26 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:


  Leave it to humans with no concept of common sense, but lots of don't
rock the boat
rules and you get TMI, Chernobyl, and Fukushima. And probably 100 more
lessor 'accidents' we haven't been told about.


Gene, this is just not the case. There's no way that 'lesser nuclear
accidents'  are covered up, unless you include people falling off ladders
and such.
Well, there HAVE been quite a few.  No way near the 
Chernobyl or Fukushima scale, but still serious.  The US 
Navy had a test reactor in Idaho that blew up in 1961, it 
killed 3 operators.
It was also a reactor due for refueling, and so was really 
sensitive to having control rods pulled out.


In 1966, a breeder reactor designed for commercial power 
generation had a meltdown, and had to be decommisioned.  
This was near Detroit.


There was a really serious accident at the Windscale plant, 
a plutonium production reactor in the UK in 1957.  They had 
a hot spot in an air-cooled graphite pile reactor, and the 
graphite caught fire.  There was significant radiation release.


One with a good outcome was the Browns Ferry plant in 
Alabama, in 1985.  Inspectors were looking for air leaks 
with CANDLES, and set packing around wires on fire, on an 
operating reactor.  The fire took out all the control 
wiring, and the reactor ran for several HOURS with no active 
control.  But, US reactors are DESIGNED to be thermally 
self-stable, so the reactor just kept running at steady 
power.  They ended up scramming the reactor by taking the 
batteries out of the emergency lights in the control room 
and poking wires into the indicator lamp sockets to command 
the control rod drives to insert the rods.  No damage other 
than all the wiring burned up.


There have been several accidents in Japan and the US 
involving processing of nuclear materials, not AT reactors, 
where people either got radiation doses or were killed.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> 
> What market share gives a product familty is suport for a while eco
> system.   For example I think the basic Arduino is not the best or
> most usfull platform but because it is so popular there is so much
> suport for it.   ANy device likey has an Arduino library written for
> it and by know just about anyone can program an Arduno.

The ESP8266 also has a nice following and Arduino support.
> 
> Markit share gives you a wider base of support.  .

Totally agree!
> 
> On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 4:26 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > I upgraded the System Workbench for STM32 on my WIN-7
> 
> that was the root of the problem.  That system is far to complex and
> forces you to learn how each version of the chip works in too much
> detail.
> 

Too true.  The level of support for Microchip still exceed many of the other 
systems.  Having said that I'd still rather use MPLAB-8 compared to MPLAB-X but 
I can see why Microchip had to go in that direction.  Android and their stupid 
little icons for everything currently rule the world and lately everything has 
to have an android look and feel.

> take that same STM32 and plug it into the Arduino IDE then simply do
> file->example->blink and press the "load" icon and the LED blinks.
> 
> On ARM's embed system it is about the same, you select the blinky
> example, click "compile" then  drag the *.bin file to the STM32 device
> and the LED blinks.
> 
The biggest complaint about the Arduino is how effectively the IDE cleans up 
after a compile.  You can't really install breakpoints or single step through 
the machine code to see where it's going wrong.  

> Arduino is best if the program logic can fit in one loop, mbed gives
> to a full RTOS.
> 
> The System Workbench is almost never needed.  It is used only if you
> are needing to do some very esoteric things wi the STM32 chip.
> 
I disagree there.  But it could be we work on different kinds of projects.  

One of my projects was located in the shop where I didn't have easy access to 
the hardware.  I had to do the debugging and testing with print statements and 
add commands to the interactive monitor to figure out why the mix of a number 
of pseudo intelligent systems weren't behaving.When I was able to get it 
back into the lab and connect to the ICE where I could throw in break points 
debugging became easier and faster.

Both techniques worked.  One just required hours while the other one required 
minutes.  

I thought I'd lost my STM32F4 Discovery kit but just found it in the box with 
the STMBL Servo parts.  It's listed as one of the debugging modules for the 
STMBL.  In order to compile the code for the STMBLs two processors I ended up 
creating a custom 16GB MicroSD for a Pi3B and wrote up a document exactly how 
to 'make' a version and download it into the STMs on the STMBL.  No IDE 
required because I'm not really working with the code.  Just doing a GIT for 
the latest version and running make.  But that was 11 months ago.  Hard to say 
if what I wrote up will make sense.

So I will try to get the IDE working with the discovery kit.  But truthfully, I 
like the PIC32 better.

John





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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 10 March 2019 16:04:28 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 03/10/2019 12:41 PM, Greg Bernard wrote:
> > Wow, Jon! That was the best analysis of those disasters I've ever
> > read. Maybe you should consider a career as a science writer!
>
> I got real interested in Chernobyl and read up a LOT about
> it.  I also got a most INCREDIBLE tour of our nearest
> nuclear power plant about 1982.  DARN, they made it real
> clear, NO PICTURES!
> But, the IEEE and ASME groups were given a tour specifically
> for engineers, and they showed us EVERYTHING.  We actually
> got to walk inside the containment (for a PWR, there are
> surprisingly SMALL) and poke our heads into the reactor
> pressure vessel!  We had to wear bootees and hair nets.  We
> saw the diesel generator building, the water treatment
> building (I've NEVER seen so many pipes, sensors and valves
> in my life.  You could NOT see across the building, it was
> just SOLID with plumbing).  We saw the spent fuel pool, and
> the turbine and alternator were still in parts on pallets.
> The alternator was really impressive -- about a
> foot-diameter shaft with about 18-20" diameter rotor,
> totally solid one-piece steel, with the field winding driven
> into a spiral slot milled into the side.
>
> Physics Forum has several threads on the Japanese
> earthquake/tsunami and the Fukushima accident, recovery,
> etc.  A whole LOT to read, but it was VERY interesting
> stuff, and still a few posts a month about what they are
> doing now.
>
> Did you know they are STILL cleaning up the Three Mile
> Island reactor?
>
> Jon
>
No I didn't, I had assumed that was long buried in the salt mine by now.  
Is there a site where we can see it now?

OTOH, I expect they will still be working on Fukushima with robots 50 
years from now.  And how long will the new containment facility at 
Chernobyl last before they have to build another even bigger one. Better 
question perhaps is how noisy is the groundwater in a 30 mile radius 
around it.
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 10:26 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

>  Leave it to humans with no concept of common sense, but lots of don't
> rock the boat
> rules and you get TMI, Chernobyl, and Fukushima. And probably 100 more
> lessor 'accidents' we haven't been told about.
>

Gene, this is just not the case. There's no way that 'lesser nuclear
accidents'  are covered up, unless you include people falling off ladders
and such. Accidents with release of radioactivity are super easy to detect,
and so rather hard to cover up.

Plus, one serious coal mine disaster (e.g. our 2010 Upper Big Branch Mine,
29 deaths) has about similar number of fatalities as all these nuclear
disasters (the official counts are TMI = 0, Chernobyl = 31, Fukushima = 0).
There are good reasons why coal mining has a reputation of one of the most
dangerous jobs there are. Read
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_accident and
weep.

Of course on top of direct accident deaths due to nuclear industry
accidents there's mortality due to long-term radiation effects, but if you
count those, it's only fair to count black lung deaths among miners as
well, and all the deaths due to smog pollution.

You have a point that lots of rules limit progress in nuclear industry, but
these rules do have an impressive track record for safety. We don't put new
cheaper parts on airplanes, either, and for a good reason. This reminds me
that I once met some guys that watch FAA advisories and figure out what
spare parts they cover, then buy all available supply of these parts. The
sheer evil genius of their business plan left me speechless---leave it to
the free market forces to find a way to profit; but if the alternative is
to do away with FAA regulations, I am OK with the speculators.

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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill --> distance between pins

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 10 March 2019 15:45:06 John Dammeyer wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Nicklas Karlsson [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> > On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 11:57:53 -0500
> >
> > Jon Elson  wrote:
> > > On 03/10/2019 05:18 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > > >> Hey Chris,
> > > >>
> > > >> AFAIK, the Pi has better HDMI support compared to the Beagle
> > > >> but then
> >
> > it was designed more for multimedia.  The Beagle PRUs have the
> > advantage that they have access to some of the Beagle Processor RAM.
> >  That gives them a bit of an advantage over the PI/32 bit hybrid
> > using SPI.
> >
> > > The PRUs are 200 MHz 32-bit RISC processors.  There are 3
> > > shared RAM data sections between the PRUs and the ARM.  The
> > > PRUs have a limited number of direct IO pads that bypass all
> > > the ARM high-level I/O fabric, and so can be read/written at
> > > the 5 ns rate of the PRU, which is a big plus for various
> > > special bit-fiddling I/O tasks.
> > >
> > > Charles Steinkuehler wrote a general driver for Machinekit
> > > that uses the PRU for step generation, PWM and encoder input.
> >
> > But why use a PRU then this kind of hardware is usually part of the
> > micro controller and very cheap?
>
> Jon,
> You make a very good point.  Why bother, with the new 32 bit
> controllers that do so much even bother with the antiquated idea that
> the LinuxCNC PC should close the loop on positioning.  Running
> encoders from a servo motor back into the PC to some sort of
> controller board that creates +/- 10V out is now not really a good
> option.
>
> Whether it's a PC with a plug in card running LinuxCNC or a BeagleBone
> Black running MachineKit there's not much point. Or is there?
>
> For a lathe, spindle tracking in order to move the carriage and if
> also tapering at the same time to track and move the cross slide does
> require something tightly coupled.
>
> So a Pi with an external STM32 may well send step/dir signals or SPI
> based messages to the driver but tracking that spindle encoder for
> threading is a bit more intensive.
>
Which is what I'm doing on the Sheldon, with an alu  bracket, curved to 
match the size of the bull gear on the spindle. Biggest problem was my 
math, getting the pair of ATS-667 hall effect sensors properly spaced to 
get a decent quadrature timed set of pulses out of it.  For index I 
reversed the third one, and I have a piece of a 8-32 screw gooped to the 
side of the gear so the end of the screw matches a tooth. Its only a 60 
tooth gear, but thats 240 edges per revolution, and works really well. I 
do not have a pid in the spindle control, its a vfd. In making that 
10-24 thread on the back end of a shorter stylus for the touch probe, I 
forgot to put a g4p1 in front of the g76 to give the spindle some accel 
time to get to 100 rpms, so when the g76 starts the first time, I hear 
the z accelerating with the spindle, but on thinking about it, the z is 
just following orders, which is as it should be. I didn't fix it.

Approaching the correct size, I wound up with a fit I smoothed somewhat 
with the locknut, and which fits the plastic spider a heck of a lot 
better that the shlopppy darned near stripped factory fit. But I picked 
up enough noise on an unshielded testing cable that my first test run 2 
days ago blew some of the 74HCT245's in the C1G rev 4, my fav BoB, and 
Arturo does not supply schematics, so its shotgun all 4 of those, which 
I have, but theres also 3 or 4 74HCT04's which I might have to order. I 
can see the probe working on the cards leds, but its not getting to the 
pc.

I have got to see about getting this 6040's framing all grounded together 
in spite of quite a few layers of epoxy paint on everything.  Its going 
to be fun stringing 1/4" braid thru all the cable chains just to get a 
ground on the spindle motor, picking up the rest of the gantry on the 
way by.  Then find and break all the ground loops that will no doubt 
cause. Fun? Not!

My point is that on a lathe, with spindle power to spare, for threading, 
all you need is for z to take orders, and that pretty straight forward, 
no real pid magic needed. All you need is a fine grained enough spindle 
encoder, and 1.5 degrees of resolution seems to be more than enough when 
you have a relatively high motion smoothing mass in the spindle and 
chuck.

On the G0704, with the spindle in low gear, I have 360/14250
(nominally)=0.0252631578947 degrees per edge, and I can run plumb 
ridiculous amounts of Pgain in that spindle PID. Speed control is STIFF.
Rigid tapping, up to the 17 amp current limit set in the servo amp, just 
works. And thats as close as I'll ever get to getting a 2200 lb 
Percheron sized horsepower out of that PMDC motor.

> John Dammeyer
> http://www.autoartisans.com
>
> > > Jon
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > 

[Emc-users] OT: Re: Fixing the deserts.

[Erik Christiansen]

On 10.03.19 20:02, Marshland Engineering wrote:
> Hi Erik
> 
> I know you are up to eyeballs at the moment, but here is a really interesting
> TED talk.
> 
> https://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change#t-1320745

Either my one HDMI monitor has decided to intermittently superimpose
horizontal and vertical bars, or my one PC fast enough to handle video
is doing it. As the cursor's gone when that happens, my money is on the
PC. Rats, it's just out of warranty.

> Can this work in Aus ? 

China is doing some great work, but we're mostly covering the most
fertile and best watered land with houses and bitumen, as cities grow
where British colonists found the best land, then multiplied. Melbourne
takes water from halfway across Victoria to water lawns and flush
toilets, while dumping its own rainfall into stormwater drains, then out
to sea. (The Thomson dam provides 40% of the city's water, instead of
being available where the rain fell.)

We have vociferous greens who mandate that considerable quantities of
fresh water in storage dams are diverted from agriculture and flushed
out to sea, in order to maintain "environmental flows" to keep fish
happy.

IIUC, Antarctica is the only continent dryer than Australia, so greening
needs to creep in from the coast. Regeneration of large swathes of
forest normally brings rain, not just due to reduced hot updraught and
transpired moisture from deep down in the soil profile, but also due to
emitted volatiles. Putting the forests back has to help.

Intensive agriculture has only been practiced for 200 years here, and a
lot has been learned. But climate change is forcing more than gradual
adaptation. Most graziers have drastically destocked in the last two
years, not just to preserve the land, but because there has been
insufficient supplemental feed available. Some are planting tens of
thousands of trees, but it is uncommon.

Our 308 Ha. is quite sandy, with some sodic clay hardpan (needing
application of a lot of gypsum), and has very limited stock carrying
capacity when it's dry, which seems to be permanent now. For several
years now, it's been left to the wildlife, and they're keeping the
cleared paddocks like billiard tables in their search for sustenance in
the drought.

My 35 year old native plantations fringe the paddocks, adding to the 200
Ha. of bulk forest. I've form pruned to 6m, so in another 50 years
there'll be some fine redgum timber for future generations. Slow growth
timber from low rainfall areas is the finest you can get, but not
economic for the producer.

Sorry for the tangential reply. I'll have to find out which media item
needs fixing/replacement.

> PS I'm originally from Africa, Zambia.

So long as the rainy season continues to arrive, I figure they're in a
better climatic position than most parts of Australia.

Erik


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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill

[Chris Albertson]

What market share gives a product familty is suport for a while eco
system.   For example I think the basic Arduino is not the best or
most usfull platform but because it is so popular there is so much
suport for it.   ANy device likey has an Arduino library written for
it and by know just about anyone can program an Arduno.

Markit share gives you a wider base of support.  .

On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 4:26 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Another criteria is development environments and support.   Now here costs do 
> factor.  Every hour spend on the development adds over $100 to cost of the 
> R and if you only build 100 units then the price goes up by $1 for each 
> hour wasted.
>
> I upgraded the System Workbench for STM32 on my WIN-7

that was the root of the problem.  That system is far to complex and
forces you to learn how each version of the chip works in too much
detail.

take that same STM32 and plug it into the Arduino IDE then simply do
file->example->blink and press the "load" icon and the LED blinks.

On ARM's embed system it is about the same, you select the blinky
example, click "compile" then  drag the *.bin file to the STM32 device
and the LED blinks.

Arduino is best if the program logic can fit in one loop, mbed gives
to a full RTOS.

The System Workbench is almost never needed.  It is used only if you
are needing to do some very esoteric things wi the STM32 chip.




system and tried for over an hour to create a simple Hello World
Project.  It's been years since I touched the ST family.  Just haven't
had a project that needs a 32 bit processor and if I do there are the
various 32 bit ARM variants that can be programmed by the Arduino IDE.
Adafruit has some nice stuff for that.  I have all sorts of RGB
projects on the go.  Too many.
>
> Anyway, after more than an hour with the AC6 Tools Eclipse Based ID for the 
> STM32 the final results are as follows:
> This was created by the IDE as the sample Hello World program.  I just chose 
> the processor and the target module for it.
> /*
>  
>  Name: HelloWorld.c
>  Author  :
>  Version :
>  Copyright   : Your copyright notice
>  Description : Hello World in C, Ansi-style
>  
>  */
>
> #include 
> #include 
>
> int main(void) {
> puts("!!!Hello World!!!"); /* prints !!!Hello World!!! */
> return EXIT_SUCCESS;
> }
>
> After compiling  here's the output which shows it failed because it couldn't 
> find any of the library files.  Part of my hour trying to solve this problem 
> was to even search the web for similar issues.  There were.  Most often the 
> replies on the forums were the fairly usual and obvious "it can't find a 
> function" with no guidance on how to go about finding them.  Or how to set 
> the tool chain correctly.
>
> Cost.  1 hour.   See below this listing for the next experiment.
>
> 15:49:08  Incremental Build of configuration Release for project Hello1 
> 
> make -j8 all
> Building target: Hello1.elf
> Invoking: MCU GCC Linker
> arm-none-eabi-gcc -mcpu=cortex-m4 -mthumb -mfloat-abi=hard -mfpu=fpv4-sp-d16 
> -T"C:/Users/john/workspace/HelloWorld/Hello1/LinkerScript.ld" 
> -Wl,-Map=output.map -Wl,--gc-sections -o "Hello1.elf" @"objects.list"   -lm
> c:/ac6/systemworkbench/plugins/fr.ac6.mcu.externaltools.arm-none.win32_1.17.0.201812190825/tools/compiler/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/7.3.1/../../../../arm-none-eabi/lib/thumb/v7e-m/fpv4-sp/hard\libc.a(lib_a-writer.o):
>  In function `_write_r':
> writer.c:(.text._write_r+0x12): undefined reference to `_write'
> c:/ac6/systemworkbench/plugins/fr.ac6.mcu.externaltools.arm-none.win32_1.17.0.201812190825/tools/compiler/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/7.3.1/../../../../arm-none-eabi/lib/thumb/v7e-m/fpv4-sp/hard\libc.a(lib_a-closer.o):
>  In function `_close_r':
> closer.c:(.text._close_r+0xc): undefined reference to `_close'
> c:/ac6/systemworkbench/plugins/fr.ac6.mcu.externaltools.arm-none.win32_1.17.0.201812190825/tools/compiler/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/7.3.1/../../../../arm-none-eabi/lib/thumb/v7e-m/fpv4-sp/hard\libc.a(lib_a-lseekr.o):
>  In function `_lseek_r':
> lseekr.c:(.text._lseek_r+0x12): undefined reference to `_lseek'
> c:/ac6/systemworkbench/plugins/fr.ac6.mcu.externaltools.arm-none.win32_1.17.0.201812190825/tools/compiler/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/7.3.1/../../../../arm-none-eabi/lib/thumb/v7e-m/fpv4-sp/hard\libc.a(lib_a-readr.o):
>  In function `_read_r':
> readr.c:(.text._read_r+0x12): undefined reference to `_read'
> c:/ac6/systemworkbench/plugins/fr.ac6.mcu.externaltools.arm-none.win32_1.17.0.201812190825/tools/compiler/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/7.3.1/../../../../arm-none-eabi/lib/thumb/v7e-m/fpv4-sp/hard\libc.a(lib_a-fstatr.o):
>  In function `_fstat_r':
> fstatr.c:(.text._fstat_r+0x10): undefined reference to `_fstat'
> 

Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Thaddeus Waldner]

Venezuela is neither an example of a failed economy nor an example of a 
government controlled economy. The government controls 30% of the economy, the 
same as or less than most developed countries. Low oil prices and US sanctions 
are responsible for economic issues, not the government.

Thaddeus Waldner
Newdale School
Elkton, SD 57026


From: Bruce Layne 
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 6:59 PM
To: Chris Albertson; Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.



On 3/10/19 5:12 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> California, where I live passed a law that the electric grid be
> powered by 100% renewable energy. Some said it was a dream but
> economic forces are already such that the plan is ahead of schedule.
> Last year for a few days the grid over 50% renewable
>
> THere is also a law requiring panels of every new home.

Good ideas don't require government coercion.  The market will solve
problems like this far more efficiently.  It's an historical fact that
central economic planning doesn't work.  Government control of an
economy always results in poor quality products and shortages with
people standing in long lines for food or on a waiting list to buy a
poor excuse for a car they can't afford.  Current example of a failed
government controlled economy:  Venezuela.  Even ignoring the inevitable
corruption, no bureaucrat has the detailed information that a market
effortlessly uses to accurately allocate resources.

My 30W solar panel arrived today, along with sixteen 18650 lithium
batteries, battery holders, DC-DC voltage converters that I'm using as a
solar charge controller, and a battery balancing circuit.  These are all
inexpensive parts that I bought on Amazon and they're a bit less
expensive on eBay.  No engineering required.  Wire the modules together
and Bob's your uncle.  No government laws were required to force me to
use solar power, either.







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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill --> boot loader

[Kirk Wallace]

Thank you for the tips. I was hoping to make a webpage documenting what 
I have tried so far in more detail. Maybe it will get done tonight. 
(Darn I can't hear myself type -- it's raining again.)


On 3/10/19 4:27 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 3:23 AM Nicklas Karlsson
 wrote:





Which boot loader? I got my ST-Link dongle to load a couple of
bootloader files but neither seemed to work.


Do you mean that the boot loader loaded but did not run, maybe have a
bug or that you could not load the bootloader?

There is a learning curve.  On the "blue pill" you must move the
shoring block on the boot pins to program the device and then move the
pins to boot the boot loader.   Itis easy to get this backward and the
shorting block are way to m=samll for by fingers.   During development
when you are re-programming this every 5 minutes make toggle switch
cable to speed things up.

If programming and booting don't work, likey the shorting blocks are
on the wrong pins.If you have a real Arduino there is a separate.
the second processor on the board to the boot stuff automatically.
but for $2.50 you have to move the shoring blocks with tweezers.

A better entry into STM32 programming is with an STM"Nucleo" board.
STM sells these for about $13 via US based resellers like Digikey or
Mouser.  So there is no need to deal with Chinese eBaers and wait a
month.

  The Nucleo board makes programming and booting trivially simple.
The board loks like the USB "thumb drive" to the OS so you can drag
and drop the binary file onto the processor.   This works the same on
Linux, Mac and Windows.The Nucleao has a built-in ST-Link dongle
with a special mode to make it look like a USB storage device.

Later, move to the bare chip "Blue Pill" if you like but I'd not start
there until gaining experience






--
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 10 March 2019 12:53:04 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 03/10/2019 04:29 AM, Andrew wrote:
> >   Have any of us taken
> > a geiger counter to the grocery store and checked the bagged or
> > canned tuna lately? If I could find one I could afford, I would have
> > long ago, but even junk thats for parts is half a kilobuck.
>
> If you think tuna might be bad, check your BANANAS!  They
> are full of naturally-occurring radioactive potassium.
>
> Jon
>

i'll do that too. :(
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Jon Elson]

On 03/10/2019 04:16 PM, Greg Bernard wrote:

Interesting stuff, Jon. Didn't know about the ongoing cleanup at Three Mile
but it doesn't surprise me. Now I'm going to put you on the spot. Given our
current need for carbon-free energy, do you see nuclear as a viable option?


Yes!  If a properly designed and built nuclear plant is run 
by a competent organization, I think they make a lot of 
sense.  The French have been using nuclear power almost 
exclusively for 40 years, and their plants are WAY more 
modern than ours.  They use a lot of gas-cooled reactors, 
which solve a WHOLE bunch of potential problems (loss of 
coolant and corrosion, mostly) and those have been doing 
just fine for years.


We ought to rethink nuclear, and start using the newest 
technology. While it is not totally clean or risk-free, it 
is a lot cleaner than coal (which ALSO releases 
radioactivity into the atmosphere).


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Bruce Layne]

On 3/10/19 5:12 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> California, where I live passed a law that the electric grid be
> powered by 100% renewable energy.   Some said it was a dream but
> economic forces are already such that the plan is ahead of schedule.
> Last year for a few days the grid over 50% renewable
>
> THere is also a law requiring panels of every new home. 

Good ideas don't require government coercion.  The market will solve
problems like this far more efficiently.  It's an historical fact that
central economic planning doesn't work.  Government control of an
economy always results in poor quality products and shortages with
people standing in long lines for food or on a waiting list to buy a
poor excuse for a car they can't afford.  Current example of a failed
government controlled economy:  Venezuela.  Even ignoring the inevitable
corruption, no bureaucrat has the detailed information that a market
effortlessly uses to accurately allocate resources.

My 30W solar panel arrived today, along with sixteen 18650 lithium
batteries, battery holders, DC-DC voltage converters that I'm using as a
solar charge controller, and a battery balancing circuit.  These are all
inexpensive parts that I bought on Amazon and they're a bit less
expensive on eBay.  No engineering required.  Wire the modules together
and Bob's your uncle.  No government laws were required to force me to
use solar power, either.







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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill --> boot loader

[Chris Albertson]

On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 3:23 AM Nicklas Karlsson
 wrote:
>

> > Which boot loader? I got my ST-Link dongle to load a couple of
> > bootloader files but neither seemed to work.

Do you mean that the boot loader loaded but did not run, maybe have a
bug or that you could not load the bootloader?

There is a learning curve.  On the "blue pill" you must move the
shoring block on the boot pins to program the device and then move the
pins to boot the boot loader.   Itis easy to get this backward and the
shorting block are way to m=samll for by fingers.   During development
when you are re-programming this every 5 minutes make toggle switch
cable to speed things up.

If programming and booting don't work, likey the shorting blocks are
on the wrong pins.If you have a real Arduino there is a separate.
the second processor on the board to the boot stuff automatically.
but for $2.50 you have to move the shoring blocks with tweezers.

A better entry into STM32 programming is with an STM"Nucleo" board.
STM sells these for about $13 via US based resellers like Digikey or
Mouser.  So there is no need to deal with Chinese eBaers and wait a
month.

 The Nucleo board makes programming and booting trivially simple.
The board loks like the USB "thumb drive" to the OS so you can drag
and drop the binary file onto the processor.   This works the same on
Linux, Mac and Windows.The Nucleao has a built-in ST-Link dongle
with a special mode to make it look like a USB storage device.

Later, move to the bare chip "Blue Pill" if you like but I'd not start
there until gaining experience



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California


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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Chris,

Way back the MC6805 was listed as having the most market share.  I'm not sure 
whether the STM32 has the most or if it's really just the ARM architecture.  
Numbers like that always get thrown around to appeal to the "Join the Popular 
Crowd Group".  When I start a new project, like back in 2008 when asked to 
build the Olympic Rings I looked around for what would work for me.  Not what 
was popular.  Once we decided 5 CAN channels were a requirement the number of 
processor families dropped to 1.

I never have and probably never will build 10,000 or more of anything.  Even 
1,000 is a large number for my clients.  So the cost or popularity of the 
processor rarely impacts the total price of what I design.   Even just ARM 
compatible in most cases isn't a big deal since again 99% of the work is in a 
high level language and as long as it fits in the FLASH memory there tends to 
be a who cares attitude from the client.

Another criteria is development environments and support.   Now here costs do 
factor.  Every hour spend on the development adds over $100 to cost of the R 
and if you only build 100 units then the price goes up by $1 for each hour 
wasted.

I upgraded the System Workbench for STM32 on my WIN-7 system and tried for over 
an hour to create a simple Hello World Project.  It's been years since I 
touched the ST family.  Just haven't had a project that needs a 32 bit 
processor and if I do there are the various 32 bit ARM variants that can be 
programmed by the Arduino IDE.  Adafruit has some nice stuff for that.  I have 
all sorts of RGB projects on the go.  Too many.

Anyway, after more than an hour with the AC6 Tools Eclipse Based ID for the 
STM32 the final results are as follows:
This was created by the IDE as the sample Hello World program.  I just chose 
the processor and the target module for it.
/*
 
 Name: HelloWorld.c
 Author  : 
 Version :
 Copyright   : Your copyright notice
 Description : Hello World in C, Ansi-style
 
 */

#include 
#include 

int main(void) {
puts("!!!Hello World!!!"); /* prints !!!Hello World!!! */
return EXIT_SUCCESS;
}

After compiling  here's the output which shows it failed because it couldn't 
find any of the library files.  Part of my hour trying to solve this problem 
was to even search the web for similar issues.  There were.  Most often the 
replies on the forums were the fairly usual and obvious "it can't find a 
function" with no guidance on how to go about finding them.  Or how to set the 
tool chain correctly.  

Cost.  1 hour.   See below this listing for the next experiment.

15:49:08  Incremental Build of configuration Release for project Hello1 
make -j8 all 
Building target: Hello1.elf
Invoking: MCU GCC Linker
arm-none-eabi-gcc -mcpu=cortex-m4 -mthumb -mfloat-abi=hard -mfpu=fpv4-sp-d16 
-T"C:/Users/john/workspace/HelloWorld/Hello1/LinkerScript.ld" 
-Wl,-Map=output.map -Wl,--gc-sections -o "Hello1.elf" @"objects.list"   -lm
c:/ac6/systemworkbench/plugins/fr.ac6.mcu.externaltools.arm-none.win32_1.17.0.201812190825/tools/compiler/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/7.3.1/../../../../arm-none-eabi/lib/thumb/v7e-m/fpv4-sp/hard\libc.a(lib_a-writer.o):
 In function `_write_r':
writer.c:(.text._write_r+0x12): undefined reference to `_write'
c:/ac6/systemworkbench/plugins/fr.ac6.mcu.externaltools.arm-none.win32_1.17.0.201812190825/tools/compiler/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/7.3.1/../../../../arm-none-eabi/lib/thumb/v7e-m/fpv4-sp/hard\libc.a(lib_a-closer.o):
 In function `_close_r':
closer.c:(.text._close_r+0xc): undefined reference to `_close'
c:/ac6/systemworkbench/plugins/fr.ac6.mcu.externaltools.arm-none.win32_1.17.0.201812190825/tools/compiler/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/7.3.1/../../../../arm-none-eabi/lib/thumb/v7e-m/fpv4-sp/hard\libc.a(lib_a-lseekr.o):
 In function `_lseek_r':
lseekr.c:(.text._lseek_r+0x12): undefined reference to `_lseek'
c:/ac6/systemworkbench/plugins/fr.ac6.mcu.externaltools.arm-none.win32_1.17.0.201812190825/tools/compiler/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/7.3.1/../../../../arm-none-eabi/lib/thumb/v7e-m/fpv4-sp/hard\libc.a(lib_a-readr.o):
 In function `_read_r':
readr.c:(.text._read_r+0x12): undefined reference to `_read'
c:/ac6/systemworkbench/plugins/fr.ac6.mcu.externaltools.arm-none.win32_1.17.0.201812190825/tools/compiler/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/7.3.1/../../../../arm-none-eabi/lib/thumb/v7e-m/fpv4-sp/hard\libc.a(lib_a-fstatr.o):
 In function `_fstat_r':
fstatr.c:(.text._fstat_r+0x10): undefined reference to `_fstat'
c:/ac6/systemworkbench/plugins/fr.ac6.mcu.externaltools.arm-none.win32_1.17.0.201812190825/tools/compiler/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/7.3.1/../../../../arm-none-eabi/lib/thumb/v7e-m/fpv4-sp/hard\libc.a(lib_a-isattyr.o):
 In function `_isatty_r':
isattyr.c:(.text._isatty_r+0xc): undefined reference to `_isatty'

Re: [Emc-users] LCNC logic

[a k]

hi
last time i did wired motor drive was in 2004, i forgot things.
i need look not from drive side -pin but from 7i33 side.
7i33 pin amp P3
(connector)
2 ENCA0 1
3/ ENCA0   2
4GND7;1;18;
5 ENCB0 3
6/ENCB0 4
8  IDX05
9 /IDX0   6
11AOUT0 23
13  ENA017
///
if new drive has same pin then it can be used.
i took this print from documentation, part where talk about useful hardware.
i am right? it was 15 years ago,
there was part where hardware like servo motor, drive , boards etc had
table with corresponding pins.
question: does that part of documentation still exist and does new hardware
were added . ?
it can be very helpful .
probably new mfg of new hardware need to add /manage that part.

thank you
aram













On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 4:24 PM Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 03/09/2019 12:05 PM, a k wrote:
> > hi
> > i am interesting in LCNC logic - how it work
> > for situation when LCNC command to axis to move 4" ,
> > and in case if axis moved only 3" ,for any reason like
> > 1- axis hit obstacle;
> > 2- power wire broke;
> >
> > question-- how LCNC knows that need E-STOP?
> If your servo amplifiers trip on overcurrent, they will
> signal an E-stop on the E-stop loop circuit.
>
> If not, then the motion component is constantly watching
> following error, and if the error exceeds the limits you
> have set in the .ini file for each axis (MIN_FERROR is a
> constant limit, and FERROR is a velocity-proportional
> increase in the limit) then LinuxCNC goes to the Machine-OFF
> state (same as pressing F2).  So, that is not exactly the
> same as an E-stop condition.
>
> This will also stop all axes and give an error message such
> as "following error on Axis 2".
>
> Jon
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill --> multicore isolation

[Chris Albertson]

This is also a good reason to use Ethernet (or Ethercat).   All
Ethernet cables are galvanically isolated by transformers.  I think
this is a little known fact, Ethernet uses magnetic isolation to
prevent ground loops.

This is kind of a big deal in a large system.   Some types of signals
just cannot go over long distances and the only way to use the types
of signals that can travel long-distance is to have some kind of
"intelligent" device at the far end.

On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 3:16 AM Nicklas Karlsson
 wrote:
>
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> >
> >
> > > The STM32 has no problem with MHz level bit flipping.   Reading or
> > > creating is MHz level is not hard.
> > > And the Pi3 has to be about the most well understood and documented
> > > machines on Earth.  they
> > > are ultra-common.
> > >
> > > The pi still is beat by an Intel desktop PC but the Pi has that GPIO
> > > header and you can get at signals.  The OS causes unpredictable
> > > latency so use the STM32 if that matters.
> > >
> > > As for compute power if the Pi is not enough you offload from the Pi
> > > to the bigger box.But for machine tools the Pi is overkill unless
> > > you are doing vision.
> > >
> > And the STM32s are so inexpensive that the STMBL AC Servo drive uses two of 
> > them.  One to handle the actual 3 phase drive output and one to deal with 
> > the encoders and user interface etc.  It's a nice solution where the 
> > computer side (LinuxCNC) is electrically isolated from the 350V Motor side.
>
> There are good reason to place Micro controller on rectified negative rail 
> while other signal need to be electrical isolated. This might be the reason 
> two micro controllers are used.
>
>
> Nicklas Karlsson
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Andrew]

Right. But many European countries suffered in WW II too, so I can't insist
we were exclusive.
The greatest problem for Ukraine has been very long Russian and Soviet
occupation, which lead to enormous Holodomor in 1930s when millions of
people were intentionally starved to death, and many other dreadful
consequences... In some form it isn't over yet. Now it continues as Russian
hybrid aggression.

нд, 10 бер. 2019 о 17:34 Nicklas Karlsson 
пише:

> You certainly got your problem in Ukraine, I guess Belarus and Ukraine is
> where most of world war II effort in both directions was spent and then
> came Chernobyl disaster.
>
> > I live in Ukraine where Chernobyl disaster happened in 1986. I also live
> in
> > the region with uranium mines.
> > So we used to be very interested in radiation and all this stuff.
> Everyday
> > the weather forecast on the radio said the background radiation level in
> > uR/hr (probably still says but I don't listen radio).
> > Now AFAIK the radiation level is perfectly normal. But should a large
> fire
> > happen in contaminated zone near Chernobyl, the wind might carry the
> > radiation and the level gets slightly up for a few days in the nearest
> > cities.
> >
> > нд, 10 бер. 2019 о 12:17 Gene Heskett  пише:
> >
> > > On Sunday 10 March 2019 05:29:11 Andrew wrote:
> > >
> > > > нд, 10 бер. 2019 о 11:10 Gene Heskett:
> > > > > The point I was belaboring is that any one of us on this list could
> > > > > fix all that including me. But we'ed never in the next 10k years,
> be
> > > > > allowed to because the regulation is being done by people who have
> > > > > never understood the real power of the genie they have been given
> > > > > the power to regulate.  As Einstein famously said, insanity is
> doing
> > > > > the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.
> > > > > Have any of us taken a geiger counter to the grocery store and
> > > > > checked the bagged or canned tuna lately? If I could find one I
> > > > > could afford, I would have long ago, but even junk thats for parts
> > > > > is half a kilobuck.
> > > >
> > > > Well ebay has a lot of them starting from $50.
> > > > Check the item 163454080639 for instance.
> > > >
> > > > Andrew
> > >
> > > So I bought one. Not that one. I'll report when it arrives.
> > >
> > > > ___
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> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > > --
> > > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > > Genes Web page 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
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> > >
> >
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Re: [Emc-users] CANopen configuration files

[Nicklas Karlsson]

I got problem, parameter value is not assigned then rtapi_app_main(...) 
function is called. The is the usual problem, I have to sleep and go to work 
tommorow.

On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 12:45:06 -0700
"John Dammeyer"  wrote:

> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Nicklas Karlsson [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> > On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 09:45:02 -0700
> > "John Dammeyer"  wrote:
> > 
> > > Not all devices allow changing the PDO Mapping entries.  Some of them
> > first require setting the unit into a programming mode.  Then you write to
> > those locations.  Then send a save command.  On power up the device fills
> > them in itself.   You need to use SDOs to change those locations so you will
> > get back an RDO that shows success or failure.
> > > Others don't let you change them at all.
> > 
> > It will work as long as the mapping entries are possible to read. For
> > meaningful names and it is also neccessary to read an eds file, otherwise
> > there will be only numbers.
> 
> Well yes and no.
> For example let's take a look at an object dictionary for a RPDO:  Here I 
> read each of the RPDO3 OD locations of Node 0x1A.
> ###6###,19/03/10,10:55:34,r,0A,1402:00,05,(5) We have 
> 5 entries
> ###6###,19/03/10,10:55:36,r,0A,1402:01,041A,( 1050)   It 
> responds to 0x41A
> ###6###,19/03/10,10:55:39,r,0A,1402:02,FF,(255)   
> Processed immediately
> ###6###,19/03/10,10:55:41,r,0A,1402:03,,(0)   No 
> inhibit time
> ###6###,19/03/10,10:55:44,r,0A,1402:04,06090011,(101253137)   Invalid read 
> error
> ###6###,19/03/10,10:55:46,r,0A,1402:05,,(0)   Event 
> timer is not used
> ###6###,19/03/10,10:55:57,r,0A,1602:00,03,(3) The 
> RPDO will have three values
> ###6###,19/03/10,10:56:08,r,0A,1602:01,60710010,( 1618018320) The first two 
> bytes go to 0x6071:00
> ###6###,19/03/10,10:56:11,r,0A,1602:02,60010008,( 1610678280) The next byte 
> goes to 0x6001:00
> ###6###,19/03/10,10:56:15,r,0A,1602:03,22720020,( 577896480)  The last 4 
> bytes go to 0x2272:00
> 
> The user manual for this battery charger lists 0x6001 as the charger enable.
> Location 0x6071 is a 16 bit signed scaled value of Charger Set Current.
> Location 2272 is a 32 bit signed scaled value of Charger Set Voltage.
> 
> All of these locations are R/W and as long as the charger receives a 
> heartbeat from the CANopen Master.  Rather than send three SDO messages with 
> corresponding RDO replies  they are all packed into one PDO.
> 
> These values in the PDO configuration are normally set by the factory 
> including the NodeID 0x1A.  A USB dongle is plugged into it to configure 
> firmware upgrades, configuration and set the node ID.  An EDS file isn't 
> required.  But is really interesting when captured by the right kind of tool 
> such as one from port.de
> 
> ; This EDS file was created by the CANopen Design Tool 2.2.47.0.
> ; port GmbH Halle/Saale Germany, http://www.port.de, mailto:serv...@port.de
> 
> This tool can query a CANopen device and create a complete map of what is 
> what.  Of course you'd still have to know what is in 6071 and what the 
> scaling would be and the OD doesn't tell you that.
> 
> Here's a command to the charger from my system master as reported in logging 
> mode.
> Tx141A77301010070
> Broken apart it's 
> Tx1 41A 7 7301 01 0070
> 
> Tx1 means 11 bit ID transmitted from Channel 1
> 41A is the 11 bit ID for node 0x1A
> There are 7 bytes
> The first data value is 0x0173 and from above that's a scaled current setting
> The second data value is 0x01 which means the charger is enabled.
> The third data value is 0x7000 which is a scaled voltage setting.
> 
> This is all just done with a tool that reads from the CAN bus and formats the 
> output knowing that the messages are CANopen.  Once you know how the stuff is 
> organized any CANopen module is like an open book.
> 
> John Dammeyer
> http://www.autoartisans.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > Nicklas Karlsson
> > 
> > 
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Kirk Wallace]

On 3/10/19 2:12 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

California, where I live passed a law that the electric grid be
powered by 100% renewable energy.   Some said it was a dream but
economic forces are already  such that the plan is ahead of schedule.
Last year for a few days the grid over 50% renewable


I am also in California and have these panels on my todo list:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/173617534138


If it would just stop blowing and raining, I could get the mounts built 
and go get em.


--
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/


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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill

[Chris Albertson]

Yes the PRU is unique.   This is both good and bad.  Bad because using
it locks you to Texas Instruments "forever" Good because the PRU
bandwidth is very good because of the shared memory.

As for debugging.  The STM32 has that, hardware breakpoint and all.

The STM32 now has about 2/3 of the market which means that 33% of the
time some other solution worked better.

One good thing about thePi/STM32hybris of the TI's integrated PRUs is
that if your requirements grow you are "stuck" if your software it
tried to the Beagle Board.   With Pi3/STM32 there is a LOT of room to
grow. The Pi3canbe replaced with a Xeon-based server class machine and
the STMline goes all the way to the M7. Also there as only two
PRUs, if your project needs more pins you are again"stuck" but you can
always add more STM32 and connect them all with I2C.

I like the BBB.  I own two of them.  But only for a project that is
never going to get big.

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 1:52 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:
>
> Hey Chris,
>
> AFAIK, the Pi has better HDMI support compared to the Beagle but then it was 
> designed more for multimedia.  The Beagle PRUs have the advantage that they 
> have access to some of the Beagle Processor RAM.  That gives them a bit of an 
> advantage over the PI/32 bit hybrid using SPI.
> >
> > Somepeople are using BeagalBone Black boards because the BBB has those
> > PRUs.   This is like the Pi/STM32 hybrid, logically identical.
> >
>
> I did a project last year where I used a PIC32 as a Vehicle CAN bus monitor 
> collecting CAN packets, timestamping and logging GPS information during the 
> 20 seconds or so it took the Pi3 to boot.   Once the PI was alive, an app 
> written initially in Python but then changed to C for speed, would gather and 
> file the messages chronologically for later forwarding up to a cloud 
> database. Someone else wrote that software.   Our connection between the two 
> applications the files and pipes.
>
> In developing that project I chose the PIC32 over an STM32 because price of 
> the processor wasn't a consideration but having an ICD-3 In Circuit Debugging 
> tool was invaluable.  I used the free PIC32 compiler and MPLAB IDE.  
> Development board that could hold MIKROE Click modules
> https://www.mikroe.com/click
> The CLICK boards made changing our minds really easy.
>
>
> What's available for the STM32 that is equivalent to the In Circuit Debuggers 
> from Microchip?
>
> John Dammeyer
> http://www.autoartisans.com
>
> >
> > Chris Albertson
> > Redondo Beach, California
> >
> > ___
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>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Dave Matthews]

On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 5:15 PM Chris Albertson
 wrote:

> You get about 17 megawatt hours ($2800 at my current rate) from one
> $400 panel before the 20 year  warranty expires.  That is a 30% rate
> of return on the initial investment.   Itis no wonder that Telsa is
> offering to place panels on your roof for free, but they retain
> ownership of the panels.  They just want your roof.A 30% return on
> investment look good to them.
>

I wish I could get 17 Mwh / panel over 20 years.  Based on my current
production rates I would expect about 6 Mwh per panel.  I have a 40
panel 10.4kw ground mounted array in western NY.  It is facing dead
south and is almost zero obstruction.  Production was 2016 - 13.2 Mwh,
2017 12.4 Mwh, 2018 11.7 Mwh.  Year to date is 1370 kwh.  It all comes
down to location (42.7190° N) and how much snow piles up on the panels
in the winter.  Solar is not even close to viable here.  I put it in
when it was about 60% subsidized by the state and the feds.  That made
is about a 10-11 year payback.  Our rate including delivery is
$0.10/kwh.

Dave


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Greg Bernard]

Interesting stuff, Jon. Didn't know about the ongoing cleanup at Three Mile
but it doesn't surprise me. Now I'm going to put you on the spot. Given our
current need for carbon-free energy, do you see nuclear as a viable option?

On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 3:06 PM Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 03/10/2019 12:41 PM, Greg Bernard wrote:
> > Wow, Jon! That was the best analysis of those disasters I've ever read.
> > Maybe you should consider a career as a science writer!
> >
> >
> >
> I got real interested in Chernobyl and read up a LOT about
> it.  I also got a most INCREDIBLE tour of our nearest
> nuclear power plant about 1982.  DARN, they made it real
> clear, NO PICTURES!
> But, the IEEE and ASME groups were given a tour specifically
> for engineers, and they showed us EVERYTHING.  We actually
> got to walk inside the containment (for a PWR, there are
> surprisingly SMALL) and poke our heads into the reactor
> pressure vessel!  We had to wear bootees and hair nets.  We
> saw the diesel generator building, the water treatment
> building (I've NEVER seen so many pipes, sensors and valves
> in my life.  You could NOT see across the building, it was
> just SOLID with plumbing).  We saw the spent fuel pool, and
> the turbine and alternator were still in parts on pallets.
> The alternator was really impressive -- about a
> foot-diameter shaft with about 18-20" diameter rotor,
> totally solid one-piece steel, with the field winding driven
> into a spiral slot milled into the side.
>
> Physics Forum has several threads on the Japanese
> earthquake/tsunami and the Fukushima accident, recovery,
> etc.  A whole LOT to read, but it was VERY interesting
> stuff, and still a few posts a month about what they are
> doing now.
>
> Did you know they are STILL cleaning up the Three Mile
> Island reactor?
>
> Jon
>
>
>
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-- 
"Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world
is either a madman or an economist."
-Kenneth Boulding, economist
Corporations are NOT people and money is NOT speech!

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Chris Albertson]

California, where I live passed a law that the electric grid be
powered by 100% renewable energy.   Some said it was a dream but
economic forces are already  such that the plan is ahead of schedule.
Last year for a few days the grid over 50% renewable

You get about 17 megawatt hours ($2800 at my current rate) from one
$400 panel before the 20 year  warranty expires.  That is a 30% rate
of return on the initial investment.   Itis no wonder that Telsa is
offering to place panels on your roof for free, but they retain
ownership of the panels.  They just want your roof.A 30% return on
investment look good to them.

THere is also a law requiring panels of every new home.With a law
making everyone by pannels and a company in effect offring to give to
away free the market will "explode".

Can fusion compete economically.   It's hard with the competitor is free solar.

What to invest in?  Easy energy storage.  With nearly free daytime
power and expensive night time power the idea is to buy power inthe
daytime and sell it at night.   Local utilities doths, we have a few
reservoirs where the power company pumps water up hill when the cost
of power is low and then runs the water to a lower reservoir and sells
the hydro-power when the cost is high.   Re-use the water a few times.
Tesla is sells every battery they can build both to end users and
power utility companies.   They make LiPo battery banks as large as
shipping containers.   The economic incentive is "insane"  The "buy
low sell high" cycle is very predictable and you make a 50% per day
profit on buying and selling power based on time of use.

Fusion will be expensive and solar is already making people a ton of
money.   There will be a use for fusion power but it is at least 50
years away and by then most of the world will be on renewable power.
But yes, there will always be a need for baseload especially as cars
go electric after the bans on gas cars take effect.   The
electricication of the entire transport system will keep the demand
side going.

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 7:25 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> On Saturday 09 March 2019 21:40:10 andy pugh wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 at 17:55, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > > Electricity could with the right push, be solar.
> >
> > I would rather it was fusion.
> >
> > it looks like we can get by at the current level with renewables. One
> > day a couple of years ago the UK was > 50% renewable. (low load sunny
> > and windy day) We have some failry big offshore wind farms:
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Array
> >
> > But "current level" won't solve anything. With 10x the current output
> > we could solve problems. With 100x we could stop mining and reprocess
> > our land-fill sites into raw elements for re-use.
> >
> > I don't know why nobody is pushing for war-level funding for Fusion.
> > It can work, the sun proves that.
>
> Unfortunately for us, the sun has its own way of balanceing things and it
> generally Just Works. Thank $Diety its not big enough to nova, but will
> end ts life in 5 billion years as a bettelgues? lookalike.  Leave it to
> humans with no concept of common sense, but lots of don't rock the boat
> rules and you get TMI, Chernobyl, and Fukushima. And probably 100 more
> lessor 'accidents' we haven't been told about.
>
> The first thing the regulators will do is freeze the design down to the
> last screw in it, no matter if a far better way to do it is later found.
> My son, who works for a service company that does service work on
> electronics that fail in these power facilities on this side of the
> pond, he can't replace anything with a newer, better part, it has to be
> an official OEM part. No modern, thousands of times more dependable
> transistor carrying 10x the voltage and current ratings can be used.
> They wind up buying $5k worth of old transistors hoping to find one good
> one in the lot.  Thats pure BS, the improved technology should be
> welcomed.  But you can't tell them anything, because the people that
> write the rules only know this worked so they'll never ever allow
> something that hasn't passed the test of time measured in decades.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill --> distance between pins

[John Dammeyer]

I think we're actually all saying about the same thing.  A controller like a PC 
or a Pi3 needs some sort of external hardware that can deal with high speed 
quadrature encoders.  Whether it's done with a STM32 or FPGS doesn't really 
matter for the sake of discussion.   Meanwhile, as Jon reiterated, the BBB has 
the dual 200MHz PRUs that share memory and I/O and therefore can work with the 
Beagle main processor much more efficiently.  So although internal, it's still 
really a separate processor (sort of)...
John Dammeyer
http://www.autoartisans.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Nicklas Karlsson [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> Sent: March-10-19 1:25 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill --> distance between pins
> 
> > > ...
> > Jon,
> > You make a very good point.  Why bother, with the new 32 bit controllers
> that do so much even bother with the antiquated idea that the LinuxCNC PC
> should close the loop on positioning.  Running encoders from a servo motor
> back into the PC to some sort of controller board that creates +/- 10V out is
> now not really a good option.
> 
> To locally close the control is the best option and the method I use. Values
> sent for position and encoder values are still the same but I do not have a
> PID.
> 
> If a +/- 10V signal is used with local feedback there will be nested control
> loops which may add problems but local speed control loop and linuxcnc
> position control loop might work well. Analog signals may have a high
> update rate.
> 
> 
> Nicklas Karlsson
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill --> distance between pins

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> > ...
> Jon,
> You make a very good point.  Why bother, with the new 32 bit controllers that 
> do so much even bother with the antiquated idea that the LinuxCNC PC should 
> close the loop on positioning.  Running encoders from a servo motor back into 
> the PC to some sort of controller board that creates +/- 10V out is now not 
> really a good option.

To locally close the control is the best option and the method I use. Values 
sent for position and encoder values are still the same but I do not have a PID.

If a +/- 10V signal is used with local feedback there will be nested control 
loops which may add problems but local speed control loop and linuxcnc position 
control loop might work well. Analog signals may have a high update rate.


Nicklas Karlsson


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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill --> distance between pins

[Jon Elson]

On 03/10/2019 01:24 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:

On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 11:57:53 -0500
Jon Elson  wrote:


Charles Steinkuehler wrote a general driver for Machinekit
that uses the PRU for step generation, PWM and encoder input.

But why use a PRU then this kind of hardware is usually part of the micro 
controller and very cheap?


The PRU's ARE part of the microprocessor!  They are built 
INTO the Sitara chip on the Beagle Bone.  Not some external 
box at additional cost.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Jon Elson]

On 03/10/2019 12:41 PM, Greg Bernard wrote:

Wow, Jon! That was the best analysis of those disasters I've ever read.
Maybe you should consider a career as a science writer!



I got real interested in Chernobyl and read up a LOT about 
it.  I also got a most INCREDIBLE tour of our nearest 
nuclear power plant about 1982.  DARN, they made it real 
clear, NO PICTURES!
But, the IEEE and ASME groups were given a tour specifically 
for engineers, and they showed us EVERYTHING.  We actually 
got to walk inside the containment (for a PWR, there are 
surprisingly SMALL) and poke our heads into the reactor 
pressure vessel!  We had to wear bootees and hair nets.  We 
saw the diesel generator building, the water treatment 
building (I've NEVER seen so many pipes, sensors and valves 
in my life.  You could NOT see across the building, it was 
just SOLID with plumbing).  We saw the spent fuel pool, and 
the turbine and alternator were still in parts on pallets.  
The alternator was really impressive -- about a 
foot-diameter shaft with about 18-20" diameter rotor, 
totally solid one-piece steel, with the field winding driven 
into a spiral slot milled into the side.


Physics Forum has several threads on the Japanese 
earthquake/tsunami and the Fukushima accident, recovery, 
etc.  A whole LOT to read, but it was VERY interesting 
stuff, and still a few posts a month about what they are 
doing now.


Did you know they are STILL cleaning up the Three Mile 
Island reactor?


Jon



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Re: [Emc-users] CANopen configuration files

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Nicklas Karlsson [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 09:45:02 -0700
> "John Dammeyer"  wrote:
> 
> > Not all devices allow changing the PDO Mapping entries.  Some of them
> first require setting the unit into a programming mode.  Then you write to
> those locations.  Then send a save command.  On power up the device fills
> them in itself.   You need to use SDOs to change those locations so you will
> get back an RDO that shows success or failure.
> > Others don't let you change them at all.
> 
> It will work as long as the mapping entries are possible to read. For
> meaningful names and it is also neccessary to read an eds file, otherwise
> there will be only numbers.

Well yes and no.
For example let's take a look at an object dictionary for a RPDO:  Here I read 
each of the RPDO3 OD locations of Node 0x1A.
###6###,19/03/10,10:55:34,r,0A,1402:00,05,(5)   We have 
5 entries
###6###,19/03/10,10:55:36,r,0A,1402:01,041A,( 1050) It responds to 
0x41A
###6###,19/03/10,10:55:39,r,0A,1402:02,FF,(255) Processed 
immediately
###6###,19/03/10,10:55:41,r,0A,1402:03,,(0) No inhibit time
###6###,19/03/10,10:55:44,r,0A,1402:04,06090011,(101253137) Invalid read 
error
###6###,19/03/10,10:55:46,r,0A,1402:05,,(0) Event timer is 
not used
###6###,19/03/10,10:55:57,r,0A,1602:00,03,(3)   The 
RPDO will have three values
###6###,19/03/10,10:56:08,r,0A,1602:01,60710010,( 1618018320)   The first two 
bytes go to 0x6071:00
###6###,19/03/10,10:56:11,r,0A,1602:02,60010008,( 1610678280)   The next byte 
goes to 0x6001:00
###6###,19/03/10,10:56:15,r,0A,1602:03,22720020,( 577896480)The last 4 
bytes go to 0x2272:00

The user manual for this battery charger lists 0x6001 as the charger enable.
Location 0x6071 is a 16 bit signed scaled value of Charger Set Current.
Location 2272 is a 32 bit signed scaled value of Charger Set Voltage.

All of these locations are R/W and as long as the charger receives a heartbeat 
from the CANopen Master.  Rather than send three SDO messages with 
corresponding RDO replies  they are all packed into one PDO.

These values in the PDO configuration are normally set by the factory including 
the NodeID 0x1A.  A USB dongle is plugged into it to configure firmware 
upgrades, configuration and set the node ID.  An EDS file isn't required.  But 
is really interesting when captured by the right kind of tool such as one from 
port.de

; This EDS file was created by the CANopen Design Tool 2.2.47.0.
; port GmbH Halle/Saale Germany, http://www.port.de, mailto:serv...@port.de

This tool can query a CANopen device and create a complete map of what is what. 
 Of course you'd still have to know what is in 6071 and what the scaling would 
be and the OD doesn't tell you that.

Here's a command to the charger from my system master as reported in logging 
mode.
Tx141A77301010070
Broken apart it's 
Tx1 41A 7 7301 01 0070

Tx1 means 11 bit ID transmitted from Channel 1
41A is the 11 bit ID for node 0x1A
There are 7 bytes
The first data value is 0x0173 and from above that's a scaled current setting
The second data value is 0x01 which means the charger is enabled.
The third data value is 0x7000 which is a scaled voltage setting.

This is all just done with a tool that reads from the CAN bus and formats the 
output knowing that the messages are CANopen.  Once you know how the stuff is 
organized any CANopen module is like an open book.

John Dammeyer
http://www.autoartisans.com




> 
> Nicklas Karlsson
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill --> distance between pins

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Nicklas Karlsson [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 11:57:53 -0500
> Jon Elson  wrote:
> 
> > On 03/10/2019 05:18 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > >> Hey Chris,
> > >>
> > >> AFAIK, the Pi has better HDMI support compared to the Beagle but then
> it was designed more for multimedia.  The Beagle PRUs have the advantage
> that they have access to some of the Beagle Processor RAM.  That gives
> them a bit of an advantage over the PI/32 bit hybrid using SPI.
> > >>
> > The PRUs are 200 MHz 32-bit RISC processors.  There are 3
> > shared RAM data sections between the PRUs and the ARM.  The
> > PRUs have a limited number of direct IO pads that bypass all
> > the ARM high-level I/O fabric, and so can be read/written at
> > the 5 ns rate of the PRU, which is a big plus for various
> > special bit-fiddling I/O tasks.
> >
> > Charles Steinkuehler wrote a general driver for Machinekit
> > that uses the PRU for step generation, PWM and encoder input.
> 
> But why use a PRU then this kind of hardware is usually part of the micro
> controller and very cheap?
> 
Jon,
You make a very good point.  Why bother, with the new 32 bit controllers that 
do so much even bother with the antiquated idea that the LinuxCNC PC should 
close the loop on positioning.  Running encoders from a servo motor back into 
the PC to some sort of controller board that creates +/- 10V out is now not 
really a good option.  

Whether it's a PC with a plug in card running LinuxCNC or a BeagleBone Black 
running MachineKit there's not much point. 
Or is there?

For a lathe, spindle tracking in order to move the carriage and if also 
tapering at the same time to track and move the cross slide does require 
something tightly coupled.  

So a Pi with an external STM32 may well send step/dir signals or SPI based 
messages to the driver but tracking that spindle encoder for threading is a bit 
more intensive.

John Dammeyer
http://www.autoartisans.com

> > Jon
> >
> >
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> 
> --
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> 
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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill --> multicore isolation

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Nicklas Karlsson [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> > >
> > >
> > > > The STM32 has no problem with MHz level bit flipping.   Reading or
> > > > creating is MHz level is not hard.
> > > > And the Pi3 has to be about the most well understood and documented
> > > > machines on Earth.  they
> > > > are ultra-common.
> > > >
> > > > The pi still is beat by an Intel desktop PC but the Pi has that GPIO
> > > > header and you can get at signals.  The OS causes unpredictable
> > > > latency so use the STM32 if that matters.
> > > >
> > > > As for compute power if the Pi is not enough you offload from the Pi
> > > > to the bigger box.But for machine tools the Pi is overkill unless
> > > > you are doing vision.
> > > >
> > > And the STM32s are so inexpensive that the STMBL AC Servo drive uses
> > two of them.  One to handle the actual 3 phase drive output and one to deal
> > with the encoders and user interface etc.  It's a nice solution where the
> > computer side (LinuxCNC) is electrically isolated from the 350V Motor side.
> > 
> > There are good reason to place Micro controller on rectified negative rail
> > while other signal need to be electrical isolated. This might be the reason
> > two micro controllers are used.
> 
> Other than frame ground an AC Servo using 350VDC derived directly from the AC 
> power line (w/o a transformer) must never have that 350VDC connected in any 
> way to the instrument DC logic (or even transformer isolated DC relay/stepper 
> motors).
> 
> So now you have the issue of an encoder that uses 5V.  Intelligent Serial 
> Control or Step/Dir or even quadrature position signals all at 5V logic 
> referenced to the instrument bus.  Either optically couple all that at the 
> input of the AC Servo controller (gets expensive in both parts and board 
> area), or just use two processors on two boards with a high speed control 
> signal between them that is optically and physically isolated.
> 
> Once again shows how clever the designers are.   Were it not for the 
> discontinued driver device there would be many more of them out there.  The 
> size of this unit given the power capabilities is very small compared to a 
> lot of other units out there.  My issue right now is finding an inexpensive 3 
> phase 2HP motor I can swap into my Mill Spindle.  Ie. I have the cart  but 
> not the horse...
> 
> John Dammeyer
> http://www.autoartisans.com

Now you mentioned the good reasons and I agree.


Nicklas Karlsson


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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill --> distance between pins

[Nicklas Karlsson]

On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 11:57:53 -0500
Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 03/10/2019 05:18 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> >> Hey Chris,
> >>
> >> AFAIK, the Pi has better HDMI support compared to the Beagle but then it 
> >> was designed more for multimedia.  The Beagle PRUs have the advantage that 
> >> they have access to some of the Beagle Processor RAM.  That gives them a 
> >> bit of an advantage over the PI/32 bit hybrid using SPI.
> >>
> The PRUs are 200 MHz 32-bit RISC processors.  There are 3 
> shared RAM data sections between the PRUs and the ARM.  The 
> PRUs have a limited number of direct IO pads that bypass all 
> the ARM high-level I/O fabric, and so can be read/written at 
> the 5 ns rate of the PRU, which is a big plus for various 
> special bit-fiddling I/O tasks.
> 
> Charles Steinkuehler wrote a general driver for Machinekit 
> that uses the PRU for step generation, PWM and encoder input.

But why use a PRU then this kind of hardware is usually part of the micro 
controller and very cheap?

> Jon
> 
> 
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-- 
Nicklas Karlsson 


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Re: [Emc-users] CANopen configuration files

[Nicklas Karlsson]

On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 09:45:02 -0700
"John Dammeyer"  wrote:

> Not all devices allow changing the PDO Mapping entries.  Some of them first 
> require setting the unit into a programming mode.  Then you write to those 
> locations.  Then send a save command.  On power up the device fills them in 
> itself.   You need to use SDOs to change those locations so you will get back 
> an RDO that shows success or failure.
> Others don't let you change them at all.

It will work as long as the mapping entries are possible to read. For 
meaningful names and it is also neccessary to read an eds file, otherwise there 
will be only numbers.

Nicklas Karlsson


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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill --> distance between pins

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
> Sent: March-10-19 9:58 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill --> distance between pins
> 
> On 03/10/2019 05:18 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> >> Hey Chris,
> >>
> >> AFAIK, the Pi has better HDMI support compared to the Beagle but then it
> was designed more for multimedia.  The Beagle PRUs have the advantage
> that they have access to some of the Beagle Processor RAM.  That gives
> them a bit of an advantage over the PI/32 bit hybrid using SPI.
> >>
> The PRUs are 200 MHz 32-bit RISC processors.  There are 3
> shared RAM data sections between the PRUs and the ARM.  The
> PRUs have a limited number of direct IO pads that bypass all
> the ARM high-level I/O fabric, and so can be read/written at
> the 5 ns rate of the PRU, which is a big plus for various
> special bit-fiddling I/O tasks.
> 
> Charles Steinkuehler wrote a general driver for Machinekit
> that uses the PRU for step generation, PWM and encoder input.

I probably posted this already but if not here's the BeagleBone and MachinekIt 
running the knee stepper motor (Gecko) and Y axis DC Servo (HP_UHU).  Xylotex 
interface board.
https://youtu.be/9GF709ZfLRQ

It's not closed loop with an encoder through the Beagle.  The HP_UHU does that.

John Dammeyer
http://www.autoartisans.com

> 
> Jon
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Greg Bernard]

Wow, Jon! That was the best analysis of those disasters I've ever read.
Maybe you should consider a career as a science writer!


On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 11:54 AM Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 03/10/2019 04:29 AM, Andrew wrote:
> >   Have any of us taken
> > a geiger counter to the grocery store and checked the bagged or canned
> > tuna lately? If I could find one I could afford, I would have long ago,
> > but even junk thats for parts is half a kilobuck.
> If you think tuna might be bad, check your BANANAS!  They
> are full of naturally-occurring radioactive potassium.
>
> Jon
>
>
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-- 
"Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world
is either a madman or an economist."
-Kenneth Boulding, economist
Corporations are NOT people and money is NOT speech!

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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill --> distance between pins

[Jon Elson]

On 03/10/2019 05:18 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:

Hey Chris,

AFAIK, the Pi has better HDMI support compared to the Beagle but then it was 
designed more for multimedia.  The Beagle PRUs have the advantage that they 
have access to some of the Beagle Processor RAM.  That gives them a bit of an 
advantage over the PI/32 bit hybrid using SPI.

The PRUs are 200 MHz 32-bit RISC processors.  There are 3 
shared RAM data sections between the PRUs and the ARM.  The 
PRUs have a limited number of direct IO pads that bypass all 
the ARM high-level I/O fabric, and so can be read/written at 
the 5 ns rate of the PRU, which is a big plus for various 
special bit-fiddling I/O tasks.


Charles Steinkuehler wrote a general driver for Machinekit 
that uses the PRU for step generation, PWM and encoder input.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Jon Elson]

On 03/10/2019 04:29 AM, Andrew wrote:

  Have any of us taken
a geiger counter to the grocery store and checked the bagged or canned
tuna lately? If I could find one I could afford, I would have long ago,
but even junk thats for parts is half a kilobuck.
If you think tuna might be bad, check your BANANAS!  They 
are full of naturally-occurring radioactive potassium.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Jon Elson]

On Saturday 09 March 2019 23:43:26 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:



The one problem I see as being really troublesome with the design of
Fukushima is that it apparently was incapable of being fully self
powering of all its systems at any time.
No, not true.  They had at least SEVEN Diesel generators.  
Crazily, many of them were in the basement of the buildings, 
where they could get flooded.  Also, a number of them were 
sea-water cooled, and when the tsunami hit, the first thing 
it did was submerge the giant sea water pump motor and short 
it out.  So, they lost all their sea water cooling.

Who designs a power plant
able to run for 25 years or so, producing electricity, without needing
to be refueled, that does not tap its own power generation to run all
of its electronics, pumps etc?
The problem is the turbines, alternators and their exciters 
are not designed to run over a 1000:1 power range.  This was 
what caused the big mess at Chernobyl.  In the US, we 
require a UPS on the most critical items such as primary 
coolant circulating pumps.  Then, we back that up with 
fast-start Diesel generators that can be on line at full 
power in under six seconds.  This stuff is REALLY expensive, 
especially a UPS that will run FOUR 1000 Hp pumps.  The 
Russians didn;t want to pay for that, so they came up with 
the idea they could run the critical loads off the inertia 
of the turbine-alternator set for a minute while the Diesels 
came on line. This did require the alternator exciter to be 
able to regulate the alternator's output voltage basically 
down to zero current.  Well, after making the mods to the 
exciter, they had to test it.  Doing a test like this on an 
actual, operating reactor requires extremely careful 
planning, and training of all personnel in exactly what to 
do, when, and what to do if anything diverges from the plan.


So, they scheduled this test to be done right before a 
refueling shutdown.  But, somebody didn't get the word, and 
shut down the reactor.  Uranium reactors build up a huge 
amount of radioactive iodine as a fission daughter product, 
and it is a strong neutron absorber.  So, right after you 
shut down the reactor, the iodine builds up, and poisons the 
reaction,  It can take a whole DAY for the reaction to build 
back up and "burn off" the iodine.  Well, they needed the 
reactor to be above some power level to run the test, so 
they pulled all the control rods ALL the way out, to try to 
get some reaction going again.  Now, when ready for 
refueling, the reactor is full of Plutonium, which is more 
reactive than uranium.  (Note, the Chernobyl RBMK-1000 
reactor is identical to a graphite pile Plutonium production 
reactor they used for their weapons program, so it is 
ENGINEERED to make Plutonium, it isn't an unwanted byproduct 
like commercial power reactors.)  So, when refueling is 
needed, the reactor is quite unstable with all that 
Plutonium, and pulling the control rods all the way out 
makes it worse.  So, they cut over from grid power to their 
own alternator, and as the station ran off the inertia of 
the alternator, the alternator SLOWED DOWN!  This meant the 
frequency decreased, and any pumps running off that power 
began to slow down.  Now, the next horror of the RBMK-1000 
is that it has a "positive void coefficient".  That means 
that if the cooling water boils, it INCREASES the nuclear 
reaction rate!
This is due to the graphite being the neutron moderator, and 
the water being a neutron absorber.  It isn't clear exactly 
what the next chain of events and actions were, but at some 
point they canceled the test and scrammed the reactor.  
Another odd feature of the control rods of that reactor is 
the bottom half meter of them has a big graphite plug.  The 
control rods sit in the middle of the cooling water pipes of 
the reactor (the RBMK-1000 is not immersed in water like 
most other reactors).  So, driving dozens of control rods 
inward opposed the flow of the cooling water, the water 
started to boil, the slugs of graphite entering the core 
increased the reactivity, and the reaction ran away very 
quickly.


This insane test, of course, should have NEVER been done on 
a fueled reactor.  But, that's Russia for you.

  No nuclear power plant should require
an external electricity supply for anything as long as at least one
reactor is 'hot' and one turbine is running.

Well, that's why they have BANKS of Diesel generators!

  IMHO, an ideal
multi-reactor power plant should have one small
reactor/turbine/generator set for powering everything in the facility.
No, you have to have massive amounts of electrical power to 
even begin to start a small reactor.
The Callaway County plant is a pressurized water reactor, 
and has FOUR 1000 Hp circulating pumps.  In fact, the 
bring-up procedure after a shutdown is to use the pumps to 
warm the reactor to near operating temperature, as the 
reactor itself would raise the temperature too quickly.

One the 

Re: [Emc-users] CANopen configuration files

[John Dammeyer]

Not all devices allow changing the PDO Mapping entries.  Some of them first 
require setting the unit into a programming mode.  Then you write to those 
locations.  Then send a save command.  On power up the device fills them in 
itself.   You need to use SDOs to change those locations so you will get back 
an RDO that shows success or failure.
Others don't let you change them at all.

John Dammeyer
http://www.autoartisans.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Nicklas Karlsson [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> Sent: March-10-19 8:47 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] CANopen configuration files
> 
> I think like this is good for configuration of periodically transmitted PDOs
> both on ordinary CAN network and CANopen over Ethercat and possible
> others.
> 
> Pins available for component in hal file come from mapping entries. From
> 0x1600 to 0x17FF for RPDO mapping parameters. From 0x1A00 to 0x1BFF for
> TPDO mapping parameters.
> 
> Default is most probably assume device is properly configured and for
> Linuxcnc to put it in operational state. In other case is most probably 
> missing
> parameters assumed properly configured although it will possible to set
> (mapping parameters, communication parameters, communication cycle,
> etc) with parameters.
> 
> I started to put an array of structures for the pins and it seems quite simple
> to implement. Idea is to populate this array automatically during startup by
> reading the mapping parameters and then configured will be available for
> use in hal file.
> 
> Nicklas Karlsson
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Jon Elson]

On 03/09/2019 10:43 PM, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:

But such systems have existed for 30+ years. Many types of factories and plants 
use computer screens with graphical schematics and readouts of all the critical 
things. Operators can point and click to open and close valves, adjust 
temperatures, even emergency shutdown the entire system to bring it all to a 
halt.
But not at any of the old nuclear power plants. Their control rooms look like 
something from 40~50 years ago because they *are* from 40~50 years ago.
Well, no.  I got an extreme, engineer-level tour of the 
Callaway County nuclear plant in central Missouri before it 
opened, in about 1982.  While it was not as advanced then as 
it might be built now, it was NOT a wall of incandescent 
indicator bulbs and toggle switches.  There was a horseshoe 
console with some of the most critical indicators and 
controls, but they had several screens showing "maps" of the 
plant systems.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Jon Elson]

On 03/09/2019 09:23 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
Unfortunately for us, the sun has its own way of 
balanceing things and it generally Just Works. Thank 
$Diety its not big enough to nova, but will end ts life in 
5 billion years as a bettelgues? lookalike.
No, Betelgeuse is 30 solar masses, and will (maybe already 
has) end in a very BIG supernova.


Jon


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[Emc-users] CANopen configuration files

[Nicklas Karlsson]

I think like this is good for configuration of periodically transmitted PDOs 
both on ordinary CAN network and CANopen over Ethercat and possible others.

Pins available for component in hal file come from mapping entries. From 0x1600 
to 0x17FF for RPDO mapping parameters. From 0x1A00 to 0x1BFF for TPDO mapping 
parameters.

Default is most probably assume device is properly configured and for Linuxcnc 
to put it in operational state. In other case is most probably missing 
parameters assumed properly configured although it will possible to set 
(mapping parameters, communication parameters, communication cycle, etc) with 
parameters.

I started to put an array of structures for the pins and it seems quite simple 
to implement. Idea is to populate this array automatically during startup by 
reading the mapping parameters and then configured will be available for use in 
hal file.

Nicklas Karlsson


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Nicklas Karlsson]

You certainly got your problem in Ukraine, I guess Belarus and Ukraine is where 
most of world war II effort in both directions was spent and then came 
Chernobyl disaster.

> I live in Ukraine where Chernobyl disaster happened in 1986. I also live in
> the region with uranium mines.
> So we used to be very interested in radiation and all this stuff. Everyday
> the weather forecast on the radio said the background radiation level in
> uR/hr (probably still says but I don't listen radio).
> Now AFAIK the radiation level is perfectly normal. But should a large fire
> happen in contaminated zone near Chernobyl, the wind might carry the
> radiation and the level gets slightly up for a few days in the nearest
> cities.
> 
> нд, 10 бер. 2019 о 12:17 Gene Heskett  пише:
> 
> > On Sunday 10 March 2019 05:29:11 Andrew wrote:
> >
> > > нд, 10 бер. 2019 о 11:10 Gene Heskett:
> > > > The point I was belaboring is that any one of us on this list could
> > > > fix all that including me. But we'ed never in the next 10k years, be
> > > > allowed to because the regulation is being done by people who have
> > > > never understood the real power of the genie they have been given
> > > > the power to regulate.  As Einstein famously said, insanity is doing
> > > > the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.
> > > > Have any of us taken a geiger counter to the grocery store and
> > > > checked the bagged or canned tuna lately? If I could find one I
> > > > could afford, I would have long ago, but even junk thats for parts
> > > > is half a kilobuck.
> > >
> > > Well ebay has a lot of them starting from $50.
> > > Check the item 163454080639 for instance.
> > >
> > > Andrew
> >
> > So I bought one. Not that one. I'll report when it arrives.
> >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 10 March 2019 10:32:34 Ken Strauss wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 5:08 AM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re
> > Conversational mode.
> > The point I was belaboring is that any one of us on this list could
> > fix all that including me. But we'ed never in the next 10k years, be
> > allowed to because the regulation is being done by people who have
> > never understood the real power of the genie they have been given
> > the power to regulate.  As Einstein famously said, insanity is doing
> > the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.
> > Have any of us taken a geiger counter to the grocery store and
> > checked the bagged or canned tuna lately? If I could find one I
> > could afford, I would have long ago, but even junk thats for parts
> > is half a kilobuck.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
>
> I have no idea of the quality of their goodies but you may want to
> consider:
> https://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/products.asp?dept=1468 and
> https://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/products.asp?dept=1473
>
Some nice kit offerings there.  But I bought a fully assembled one 
lastnight. I don't have any faith in kim behaving himself when his 
people start rioting for food. I hope we have takeout capability close 
enough to break up his next "test" launch while its still over his own 
soil. Otherwise he'll be contaminating more of the big pond, and I don't 
think the rest of the planet would find that acceptable any more than we 
would.  That said, I don't have a problem with a shipment of golden rice 
seed yet this spring to give then a chance at raising enough to feed 
themselves. And we will officially have no clue where it came from. Sure 
beats hell out of letting that genie out of its bottle again.
>
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 5:08 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational
> mode.
> The point I was belaboring is that any one of us on this list could fix
> all that including me. But we'ed never in the next 10k years, be allowed
> to because the regulation is being done by people who have never
> understood the real power of the genie they have been given the power to
> regulate.  As Einstein famously said, insanity is doing the same thing
> over and over again, expecting a different result. Have any of us taken
> a geiger counter to the grocery store and checked the bagged or canned
> tuna lately? If I could find one I could afford, I would have long ago,
> but even junk thats for parts is half a kilobuck.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
I have no idea of the quality of their goodies but you may want to consider:
https://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/products.asp?dept=1468 and
https://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/products.asp?dept=1473






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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Andrew]

I live in Ukraine where Chernobyl disaster happened in 1986. I also live in
the region with uranium mines.
So we used to be very interested in radiation and all this stuff. Everyday
the weather forecast on the radio said the background radiation level in
uR/hr (probably still says but I don't listen radio).
Now AFAIK the radiation level is perfectly normal. But should a large fire
happen in contaminated zone near Chernobyl, the wind might carry the
radiation and the level gets slightly up for a few days in the nearest
cities.

нд, 10 бер. 2019 о 12:17 Gene Heskett  пише:

> On Sunday 10 March 2019 05:29:11 Andrew wrote:
>
> > нд, 10 бер. 2019 о 11:10 Gene Heskett:
> > > The point I was belaboring is that any one of us on this list could
> > > fix all that including me. But we'ed never in the next 10k years, be
> > > allowed to because the regulation is being done by people who have
> > > never understood the real power of the genie they have been given
> > > the power to regulate.  As Einstein famously said, insanity is doing
> > > the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.
> > > Have any of us taken a geiger counter to the grocery store and
> > > checked the bagged or canned tuna lately? If I could find one I
> > > could afford, I would have long ago, but even junk thats for parts
> > > is half a kilobuck.
> >
> > Well ebay has a lot of them starting from $50.
> > Check the item 163454080639 for instance.
> >
> > Andrew
>
> So I bought one. Not that one. I'll report when it arrives.
>
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill --> boot loader

[Nicklas Karlsson]

On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 14:48:28 -0800
Kirk Wallace  wrote:

> On 3/8/19 11:55 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > The easy way to program a "Blue Pill" is with the Arduino IDE.
> ...
> > The way you program this is to just connect them to the USB port like an
> > Arduino.   But the key is
> > you need to first load a boot loader into the chip.
> ...
> 
> Which boot loader? I got my ST-Link dongle to load a couple of 
> bootloader files but neither seemed to work. (generic_boot20_pc13.bin, 
> maple_mini_boot20.bin)

You edited link file?

Boot loader should be put in block there execution start and application 
somewhere else in the memory. There is usually also a need to mover interrupt 
vectors to from Flash to RAM so that these are part of the application.

Boot loader use to screw up debugger which is really annoying.


Nicklas Karlsson


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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill --> distance between pins

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> Hey Chris,
> 
> AFAIK, the Pi has better HDMI support compared to the Beagle but then it was 
> designed more for multimedia.  The Beagle PRUs have the advantage that they 
> have access to some of the Beagle Processor RAM.  That gives them a bit of an 
> advantage over the PI/32 bit hybrid using SPI.
> > 
> > Somepeople are using BeagalBone Black boards because the BBB has those
> > PRUs.   This is like the Pi/STM32 hybrid, logically identical.
> > 
> 
> I did a project last year where I used a PIC32 as a Vehicle CAN bus monitor 
> collecting CAN packets, timestamping and logging GPS information during the 
> 20 seconds or so it took the Pi3 to boot.   Once the PI was alive, an app 
> written initially in Python but then changed to C for speed, would gather and 
> file the messages chronologically for later forwarding up to a cloud 
> database. Someone else wrote that software.   Our connection between the two 
> applications the files and pipes.
> 
> In developing that project I chose the PIC32 over an STM32 because price of 
> the processor wasn't a consideration but having an ICD-3 In Circuit Debugging 
> tool was invaluable.  I used the free PIC32 compiler and MPLAB IDE.  
> Development board that could hold MIKROE Click modules
> https://www.mikroe.com/click
> The CLICK boards made changing our minds really easy.

I once wanted to choose PIC instead of STM32 because Micro controller had 
larger space between pins but think I was ignored.


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 10 March 2019 05:29:11 Andrew wrote:

> нд, 10 бер. 2019 о 11:10 Gene Heskett:
> > The point I was belaboring is that any one of us on this list could
> > fix all that including me. But we'ed never in the next 10k years, be
> > allowed to because the regulation is being done by people who have
> > never understood the real power of the genie they have been given
> > the power to regulate.  As Einstein famously said, insanity is doing
> > the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.
> > Have any of us taken a geiger counter to the grocery store and
> > checked the bagged or canned tuna lately? If I could find one I
> > could afford, I would have long ago, but even junk thats for parts
> > is half a kilobuck.
>
> Well ebay has a lot of them starting from $50.
> Check the item 163454080639 for instance.
>
> Andrew

So I bought one. Not that one. I'll report when it arrives.

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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] STM32 Blue Pill --> multicore isolation

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> 
> 
> > The STM32 has no problem with MHz level bit flipping.   Reading or
> > creating is MHz level is not hard.
> > And the Pi3 has to be about the most well understood and documented
> > machines on Earth.  they
> > are ultra-common.
> > 
> > The pi still is beat by an Intel desktop PC but the Pi has that GPIO
> > header and you can get at signals.  The OS causes unpredictable
> > latency so use the STM32 if that matters.
> > 
> > As for compute power if the Pi is not enough you offload from the Pi
> > to the bigger box.But for machine tools the Pi is overkill unless
> > you are doing vision.
> > 
> And the STM32s are so inexpensive that the STMBL AC Servo drive uses two of 
> them.  One to handle the actual 3 phase drive output and one to deal with the 
> encoders and user interface etc.  It's a nice solution where the computer 
> side (LinuxCNC) is electrically isolated from the 350V Motor side.

There are good reason to place Micro controller on rectified negative rail 
while other signal need to be electrical isolated. This might be the reason two 
micro controllers are used.


Nicklas Karlsson


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Andrew]

нд, 10 бер. 2019 о 11:10 Gene Heskett:

> The point I was belaboring is that any one of us on this list could fix
> all that including me. But we'ed never in the next 10k years, be allowed
> to because the regulation is being done by people who have never
> understood the real power of the genie they have been given the power to
> regulate.  As Einstein famously said, insanity is doing the same thing
> over and over again, expecting a different result. Have any of us taken
> a geiger counter to the grocery store and checked the bagged or canned
> tuna lately? If I could find one I could afford, I would have long ago,
> but even junk thats for parts is half a kilobuck.


Well ebay has a lot of them starting from $50.
Check the item 163454080639 for instance.

Andrew

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 09 March 2019 23:43:26 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:

> Three Mile Island's containment worked. Only a small amount of
> radioactive steam got outside. What prolonged the incident was the
> location of an indicator lamp. While the crew was clustered in one
> spot trying to figure out where all the water they were pumping into
> the core was going, the light indicating a valve was open (which
> should have automatically closed) was on the other side of the room.
> When someone finally noticed the light and hit the manual close
> control, cooling water quit blowing out of the containment vessel and
> the core was able to cool down. Unfortunately it had gotten hot enough
> to ruin it. At the time, control system that brought things to the
> operator rather than requiring the operator to constantly move around
> to check on things were the realm of science fiction, or were just in
> their early stages. TMI didn't have monitors that would pop up a "Hey!
> This valve isn't closed!" alert right in front of them. But such
> systems have existed for 30+ years. Many types of factories and plants
> use computer screens with graphical schematics and readouts of all the
> critical things. Operators can point and click to open and close
> valves, adjust temperatures, even emergency shutdown the entire system
> to bring it all to a halt. But not at any of the old nuclear power
> plants. Their control rooms look like something from 40~50 years ago
> because they *are* from 40~50 years ago. Never upgraded, never
> modernized, never made one iota safer than the day their construction
> was finished. Even worse, they went into operation with control
> systems already years obsolete because of the drawn out process of
> fighting governments and protestors who refuse to learn and understand
> any facts about nuclear power - or refuse to allow newer, better
> technology to be used. I suspect there was much cackling with glee
> among the no-nukes crowd when Fukishima went kablooey. Their
> obstructionism 'proved' that nuclear power is 'unsafe' by blocking any
> safety improvements from being made. Nevermind that radiation release,
> while worse than TMI was nowhere near on the scale of Chernobyl. Their
> constant obstructionism to upgrades is the root cause of why the
> tsunami was able to cause the right sort of damage that led to the
> overheating, hydrogen explosions etc. The diesel backup generators
> should have been relocated to a better spot, provided with better
> flood protection, or had additional generators added and better
> protected. I would not be surprised to find that all of that (and
> other safety upgrades) had been proposed at various times, and blocked
> by anti-nuke politicians. The Fukishima reactor complex was designed
> to be safe from a tsunami wave like the last big one that had caused
> major damage many years before. Tsunami walls, floodgates, and various
> other mediation projects had been implemented, especially in locations
> where the previous tsunami had caused the most damage. None of it did
> much good VS the 2011 tsunami that was 1.5x, 2x or more larger. A wall
> designed to hold back a 15  foot wave doesn't help much when hit by a
> 25 foot wave.
>
> The one problem I see as being really troublesome with the design of
> Fukushima is that it apparently was incapable of being fully self
> powering of all its systems at any time. Who designs a power plant
> able to run for 25 years or so, producing electricity, without needing
> to be refueled, that does not tap its own power generation to run all
> of its electronics, pumps etc? No nuclear power plant should require
> an external electricity supply for anything as long as at least one
> reactor is 'hot' and one turbine is running. IMHO, an ideal
> multi-reactor power plant should have one small
> reactor/turbine/generator set for powering everything in the facility.
> One the size of what's used in a nuclear submarine. Under normal
> conditions its output would be added to what the big reactors and
> generators produce, but in an emergency where the big reactors are
> shut down, the little one would stay up and running, in its well
> armored and isolated, flood proof, building, supported on isolating
> springs.
>
> When the earthquake hit, Fukushima went to automatic shutdown.
> Apparently the external power supply also went down so the diesel
> generators kicked in. That's where the trouble began. The tsunami took
> out the generators, which shut down the cooling pumps. Since there
> wasn't any other way to get power to the pumps to cool down the
> reactor cores, they heated up to the point where the water in the
> vessels split into hydrogen and oxygen, which then caused explosions.
> Better protected generators, and more of them, plus modern control
> systems with the ability to quickly self test for damage and get back
> online after a SCRAM initiated by the earthquake sensors - might have
> gotten one core back online 

[Emc-users] Hijack Forum

[Marshland Engineering]

Sorry chaps, I seem to have done this again. It seems that if I get a personal
email from an inmate, with their name as the sender, when I reply, it goes to
the forum and not them. I needed to do a copy and paste in the email address
to make it reply correctly.  

Wont do that again. 

Wallace



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