Re: [Emc-users] Axis configuration error

2022-01-30 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Sun, 2022-01-30 at 18:48 +, andy pugh wrote:
> In the debug output I see:
> 
> HAL: ERROR: duplicate variable 'pyvcp.spindle-speed'
> 
> But don't see that in any of the HAL files that you have supplied.
> 
> Do you have a .axisrc file? I see some vaguely unfamiliar output
> after
> Axis loads too.
> 


thank you Andy, I am redoing the configuration from scratch, so not a
problem anymore.




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Re: [Emc-users] Axis configuration error

2022-01-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Merci Jean-Francois


On Sat, 2022-01-29 at 10:08 +0100, jeanfrancois wrote:
> Hi Valerio,
> 
> If it may help you here's a hal+ini configuration, works fine.
> 
> Though thi sis a few years back verison linux CNC (4-5y).
> 
> Regards
> 
> Jean-François
> 
> 
> Le 28/01/2022 à 11:13, Valerio Bellizzomi a écrit :
> > Attached are my .ini and .hal files.
> > Can you tell me what is missing there?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, 2022-01-27 at 12:39 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > > On Thursday, January 27, 2022 11:49:17 AM EST Valerio Bellizzomi
> > > wrote:
> > > > Do I have to somehow convert my configurations for master ?
> > > IDK about your axis gui errors, but one thing I note is that you
> > > don't
> > > have a numerical spindle number. master had grown the ability to
> > > control
> > > more than one spindle some time back, and the S argument now
> > > expects
> > > a
> > > following number before the speed of the numerical assignment of
> > > the
> > > spindle number. All my machines only have one, they start at base
> > > 0,
> > > IDK
> > > what the max is, so the argument for my stuff is S0 500 (or
> > > whatever
> > > speed you want to assign to the first spindle.)
> > > 
> > > However I suspect something else is aglay besides that, so I'll
> > > leave
> > > it
> > > to the experts. I did see you're on buster, but not what
> > > architecture.
> > > 
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] Axis configuration error

2022-01-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Fri, 2022-01-28 at 09:36 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On Friday, January 28, 2022 9:22:12 AM EST Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Fri, 2022-01-28 at 08:27 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > > On Friday, January 28, 2022 5:13:33 AM EST Valerio Bellizzomi
> > > wrote:
> > > > Attached are my .ini and .hal files.
> > > > Can you tell me what is missing there?
> > > > 
> > > > On Thu, 2022-01-27 at 12:39 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, January 27, 2022 11:49:17 AM EST Valerio
> > > > > Bellizzomi
> > > > > 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Do I have to somehow convert my configurations for master ?
> > > > > 
> > > > > IDK about your axis gui errors, but one thing I note is that
> > > > > you
> > > > > don't
> > > > > have a numerical spindle number. master had grown the ability
> > > > > to
> > > > > control
> > > > > more than one spindle some time back, and the S argument now
> > > > > expects
> > > > > a
> > > > > following number before the speed of the numerical assignment
> > > > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > spindle number. All my machines only have one, they start at
> > > > > base
> > > > > 0,
> > > > > IDK
> > > > > what the max is, so the argument for my stuff is S0 500 (or
> > > > > whatever
> > > > > speed you want to assign to the first spindle.)
> > > > > 
> > > > > However I suspect something else is aglay besides that, so
> > > > > I'll
> > > > > leave
> > > > > it
> > > > > to the experts. I did see you're on buster, but not what
> > > > > architecture.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> > > > 
> > > > From a quick look, in your .ini, your geometry line is xyz, 3
> > > > axises, but
> > > 
> > > you then define xyzab, 5 axises later, and the .hal is missing
> > > the A
> > > and
> > > B stuffs. Its a bit short for a hal file too as many of the "net"
> > > statements don't have enough arguments.
> > > 
> > > A net statement should have
> > > 
> > > net name-of-net <= src => target [target] [target]
> > > one src, and as many targets as you need
> > > and then later in the file if needed, you can:
> > > net same-name-as-above => target target
> > > for additional fanout if needed.
> > > You can also do the second form in the postgui if needed if the
> > > target
> > > doesn't exist until the gui is running.
> > > 
> > > My stuff is a bit like topsey, it grew and grew from hand added
> > > stuff,
> > > and even my simplest lathe's hal file is 600 lines including
> > > comments,
> > > with some approaching 1000 LOC but have line after line of
> > > comments
> > > so I
> > > don't forget what I was doing 3 years later. Pleading guilty to
> > > being
> > > an
> > > old fart who does not well remember what he did 3 years ago. At
> > > 87
> > > the
> > > wet ram does not refresh as well as it did at 47. :(
> > > 
> > > The other thing I note is that you are using gedit as the editor,
> > > and
> > > that may explain the short hal file. gedit likes to play 42
> > > pickup
> > > with
> > > your stuff whenthe deck has 52 cards, please uninstall gedit, and
> > > install/use geany which doesn't have that bug. gedit looks nice,
> > > but
> > > it
> > > will eat your lunch /and/ dinner fixing its faulty saves, get rid
> > > of
> > > it,
> > > with prejudice. rm it on sight.
> > 
> > The two config files .ini and .hal are generated by stepconf
> > 
> > I'm actually using mousepad and nano as editors.
> 
> Mousepad I haven't tried, nano has always Just Worked.

ok. As I have saved all the parameters, I am going to redo the
configuration, but I don't remember if I must use stepconf or pncconf.

> 
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> > 
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > .
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.



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Re: [Emc-users] Axis configuration error

2022-01-28 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Fri, 2022-01-28 at 08:27 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On Friday, January 28, 2022 5:13:33 AM EST Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > Attached are my .ini and .hal files.
> > Can you tell me what is missing there?
> > 
> > On Thu, 2022-01-27 at 12:39 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > > On Thursday, January 27, 2022 11:49:17 AM EST Valerio Bellizzomi
> > > 
> > > wrote:
> > > > Do I have to somehow convert my configurations for master ?
> > > 
> > > IDK about your axis gui errors, but one thing I note is that you
> > > don't
> > > have a numerical spindle number. master had grown the ability to
> > > control
> > > more than one spindle some time back, and the S argument now
> > > expects
> > > a
> > > following number before the speed of the numerical assignment of
> > > the
> > > spindle number. All my machines only have one, they start at base
> > > 0,
> > > IDK
> > > what the max is, so the argument for my stuff is S0 500 (or
> > > whatever
> > > speed you want to assign to the first spindle.)
> > > 
> > > However I suspect something else is aglay besides that, so I'll
> > > leave
> > > it
> > > to the experts. I did see you're on buster, but not what
> > > architecture.
> > > 
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> > From a quick look, in your .ini, your geometry line is xyz, 3
> > axises, but 
> you then define xyzab, 5 axises later, and the .hal is missing the A
> and 
> B stuffs. Its a bit short for a hal file too as many of the "net" 
> statements don't have enough arguments.
> 
> A net statement should have
> 
> net name-of-net <= src => target [target] [target]
> one src, and as many targets as you need
> and then later in the file if needed, you can:
> net same-name-as-above => target target 
> for additional fanout if needed.
> You can also do the second form in the postgui if needed if the
> target 
> doesn't exist until the gui is running.
> 
> My stuff is a bit like topsey, it grew and grew from hand added
> stuff, 
> and even my simplest lathe's hal file is 600 lines including
> comments, 
> with some approaching 1000 LOC but have line after line of comments
> so I 
> don't forget what I was doing 3 years later. Pleading guilty to being
> an 
> old fart who does not well remember what he did 3 years ago. At 87
> the 
> wet ram does not refresh as well as it did at 47. :(
> 
> The other thing I note is that you are using gedit as the editor,
> and 
> that may explain the short hal file. gedit likes to play 42 pickup
> with 
> your stuff whenthe deck has 52 cards, please uninstall gedit, and 
> install/use geany which doesn't have that bug. gedit looks nice, but
> it 
> will eat your lunch /and/ dinner fixing its faulty saves, get rid of
> it, 
> with prejudice. rm it on sight.
> 

The two config files .ini and .hal are generated by stepconf

I'm actually using mousepad and nano as editors.



> Cheers, Gene Heskett.



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Re: [Emc-users] Axis configuration error

2022-01-28 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Attached are my .ini and .hal files.
Can you tell me what is missing there?



On Thu, 2022-01-27 at 12:39 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 11:49:17 AM EST Valerio Bellizzomi
> wrote:
> > Do I have to somehow convert my configurations for master ?
> 
> IDK about your axis gui errors, but one thing I note is that you
> don't 
> have a numerical spindle number. master had grown the ability to
> control 
> more than one spindle some time back, and the S argument now expects
> a 
> following number before the speed of the numerical assignment of the 
> spindle number. All my machines only have one, they start at base 0,
> IDK 
> what the max is, so the argument for my stuff is S0 500 (or whatever 
> speed you want to assign to the first spindle.)
> 
> However I suspect something else is aglay besides that, so I'll leave
> it 
> to the experts. I did see you're on buster, but not what
> architecture.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
# Generated by PNCconf at Tue Jun  9 15:20:50 2020
# Using LinuxCNC version:  UNAVAILABLE
# If you make changes to this file, they will be
# overwritten when you run PNCconf again

loadusr -Wn pyvcp pyvcp -c pyvcp [DISPLAY](PYVCP)
source postgui_call_list.hal
loadrt [KINS]KINEMATICS
loadrt [EMCMOT]EMCMOT servo_period_nsec=[EMCMOT]SERVO_PERIOD 
num_joints=[KINS]JOINTS
loadrt hostmot2
loadrt hm2_pci config=" num_encoders=1 num_pwmgens=0 num_stepgens=5 
sserial_port_0=00" 
setphm2_5i25.0.watchdog.timeout_ns 500
loadrt pid names=pid.x,pid.y,pid.z,pid.a,pid.s
loadrt abs names=abs.spindle
loadrt lowpass names=lowpass.spindle

addf hm2_5i25.0.read  servo-thread
addf motion-command-handler   servo-thread
addf motion-controllerservo-thread
addf pid.x.do-pid-calcs   servo-thread
addf pid.y.do-pid-calcs   servo-thread
addf pid.z.do-pid-calcs   servo-thread
addf pid.a.do-pid-calcs   servo-thread
addf pid.s.do-pid-calcs   servo-thread
addf abs.spindle  servo-thread
addf lowpass.spindle  servo-thread
addf hm2_5i25.0.write servo-thread

# external output signals


# external input signals


#***
#  AXIS X JOINT 0
#***

setp   pid.x.Pgain [JOINT_0]P
setp   pid.x.Igain [JOINT_0]I
setp   pid.x.Dgain [JOINT_0]D
setp   pid.x.bias  [JOINT_0]BIAS
setp   pid.x.FF0   [JOINT_0]FF0
setp   pid.x.FF1   [JOINT_0]FF1
setp   pid.x.FF2   [JOINT_0]FF2
setp   pid.x.deadband  [JOINT_0]DEADBAND
setp   pid.x.maxoutput [JOINT_0]MAX_OUTPUT
setp   pid.x.error-previous-target true
setp   pid.x.maxerror .0005

net x-index-enable  <=> pid.x.index-enable
net x-enable=>  pid.x.enable
net x-pos-cmd   =>  pid.x.command
net x-pos-fb=>  pid.x.feedback
net x-output<=  pid.x.output

# Step Gen signals/setup

setp   hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.dirsetup[JOINT_0]DIRSETUP
setp   hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.dirhold [JOINT_0]DIRHOLD
setp   hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.steplen [JOINT_0]STEPLEN
setp   hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.stepspace   [JOINT_0]STEPSPACE
setp   hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.position-scale  [JOINT_0]STEP_SCALE
setp   hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.step_type0
setp   hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.control-type 1
setp   hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.maxaccel [JOINT_0]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL
setp   hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.maxvel   [JOINT_0]STEPGEN_MAXVEL

# ---closedloop stepper signals---

net x-pos-cmd<= joint.0.motor-pos-cmd
net x-vel-cmd<= joint.0.vel-cmd
net x-output <= hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.velocity-cmd
net x-pos-fb <= hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.position-fb
net x-pos-fb => joint.0.motor-pos-fb
net x-enable <= joint.0.amp-enable-out
net x-enable => hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.enable

# ---setup home / limit switch signals---

net x-home-sw =>  joint.0.home-sw-in
net x-neg-limit =>  joint.0.neg-lim-sw-in
net x-pos-limit =>  joint.0.pos-lim-sw-in

#***
#  AXIS Y JOINT 1
#***

setp   pid.y.Pgain [JOINT_1]P
setp   pid.y.Igain [JOINT_1]I
setp   pid.y.Dgain [JOINT_1]D
setp   pid.y.bias  [JOINT_1]BIAS
setp   pid.y.FF0   [JOINT_1]FF0
setp   pid.y.FF1   [JOINT_1]FF1
setp   pid.y.FF2   [JOINT_1]FF2
setp   pid.y.deadband  [JOINT_1]DEADBAND
setp   pid.y.maxoutput [JOINT_1]MAX_OUTPUT
setp   pid.y.error-previous-target true
setp   pid.y.maxerror .0005

net y-index-enable  <=> pid.y.index-enable
net y-enable=>  pid.y.enable
net y-pos-cmd   =>  pid.y.command
net y-pos-fb=>  pid.y.feedback
net y-output<=  pid.y.output

# Step Gen signals/setup

setp   hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.01.dirsetup[JOINT_1]DIRSETUP
setp   hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.01.dirhold [JOINT_1]DIRHOLD
setp   hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.01.steplen [JOINT_1]STEPLEN
setp   hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.01.stepspace   [JOINT_1]STEPSPACE
setp   hm2_5i25

[Emc-users] Axis configuration error

2022-01-27 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Do I have to somehow convert my configurations for master ?


Error report created by /usr/lib/tcltk/linuxcnc/show_errors.tcl:

Print file information:
RUN_IN_PLACE=no
LINUXCNC_DIR=
LINUXCNC_BIN_DIR=/usr/bin
LINUXCNC_TCL_DIR=/usr/lib/tcltk/linuxcnc
LINUXCNC_SCRIPT_DIR=
LINUXCNC_RTLIB_DIR=/usr/lib/linuxcnc/modules
LINUXCNC_CONFIG_DIR=
LINUXCNC_LANG_DIR=/usr/lib/tcltk/linuxcnc/msgs
INIVAR=inivar
HALCMD=halcmd
LINUXCNC_EMCSH=/usr/bin/wish8.6
LINUXCNC - 2.9.0-pre0-5648-g2c7632287
Machine configuration directory is '/home/sel/linuxcnc/configs/CNC-MK1-3'
Machine configuration file is 'CNC-MK1-3.ini'
INIFILE=/home/sel/linuxcnc/configs/CNC-MK1-3/CNC-MK1-3.ini
VERSION=1.1
PARAMETER_FILE=linuxcnc.var
TASK=milltask
HALUI=halui
DISPLAY=axis
COORDINATES=XYZAB
KINEMATICS=trivkins coordinates=XYZAB
Starting LinuxCNC...
Starting LinuxCNC server program: linuxcncsvr
Loading Real Time OS, RTAPI, and HAL_LIB modules
Starting LinuxCNC IO program: io
Starting HAL User Interface program: halui
Found file(REL): ./CNC-MK1-3.hal
Found file(REL): ./custom.hal
Starting TASK program: milltask
Starting DISPLAY program: axis
No option 'tto_g11' in section: 'DEFAULT'
No option 'show_program' in section: 'DEFAULT'
No option 'show_rapids' in section: 'DEFAULT'
No option 'program_alpha' in section: 'DEFAULT'
No option 'show_live_plot' in section: 'DEFAULT'
No option 'show_tool' in section: 'DEFAULT'
No option 'show_extents' in section: 'DEFAULT'
No option 'show_offsets' in section: 'DEFAULT'
No option 'grid_size' in section: 'DEFAULT'
No option 'show_machine_limits' in section: 'DEFAULT'
No option 'show_machine_speed' in section: 'DEFAULT'
No option 'show_distance_to_go' in section: 'DEFAULT'
No option 'dro_large_font' in section: 'DEFAULT'
No option 'block_delete' in section: 'DEFAULT'
No option 'optional_stop' in section: 'DEFAULT'
Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...
Running HAL shutdown script
task: 77 cycles, min=0.05, max=0.010101, avg=0.008218, 0 latency excursions 
(> 10x expected cycle time of 0.01s)
hm2: loading Mesa HostMot2 driver version 0.15
hm2_pci: loading Mesa AnyIO HostMot2 driver version 0.7
hm2_pci: discovered 5i25 at :03:00.0
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: Low Level init 0.15
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: Smart Serial Firmware Version 43
Board hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0 Hardware Mode 0 = standard
Board hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0 Software Mode 0 = io_spin
Board hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0 Software Mode 1 = io_ana_spin
Board hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0 Software Mode 2 = io_enc_ana_spin_fv
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: 34 I/O Pins used:
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 000 (P3-01): StepGen #0, pin Direction (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 001 (P3-14): StepGen #0, pin Step (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 002 (P3-02): StepGen #1, pin Direction (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 003 (P3-15): StepGen #1, pin Step (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 004 (P3-03): StepGen #2, pin Direction (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 005 (P3-16): StepGen #2, pin Step (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 006 (P3-04): StepGen #3, pin Direction (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 007 (P3-17): StepGen #3, pin Step (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 008 (P3-05): StepGen #4, pin Direction (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 009 (P3-06): StepGen #4, pin Step (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 010 (P3-07): Smart Serial Interface #0, pin tx0 
(Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 011 (P3-08): Smart Serial Interface #0, pin rx0 
(Input)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 012 (P3-09): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 013 (P3-10): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 014 (P3-11): Encoder #0, pin Index (Input)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 015 (P3-12): Encoder #0, pin B (Input)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 016 (P3-13): Encoder #0, pin A (Input)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 017 (P2-01): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 018 (P2-14): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 019 (P2-02): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 020 (P2-15): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 021 (P2-03): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 022 (P2-16): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 023 (P2-04): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 024 (P2-17): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 025 (P2-05): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 026 (P2-06): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 027 (P2-07): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 028 (P2-08): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 029 (P2-09): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 030 (P2-10): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 031 (P2-11): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 032 (P2-12): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 033 (P2-13): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: registered
hm2_5i25.0: initialized AnyIO board at :03:00.0
hm2_5i25.0: dropping AnyIO board at :03:00.0
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: unregistered
hm2_pci: driver unloaded
hm2: unloading
Removing HAL_LIB, RTAPI, and Real Time OS modules
Removing NML shared memory segments

Debug file information:
Note: Using POSIX realtime
HAL: ERROR: duplicate variable 'pyvcp.spindle-speed'
note: MAXV max: 25.000 units/sec 1500.000 units/min
note: LJOG max: 25.000 units/sec 1500.000 

Re: [Emc-users] Qtpyvcp error

2022-01-27 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Thu, 2022-01-27 at 14:28 +, andy pugh wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 at 18:26, Valerio Bellizzomi 
> wrote:
> > , I
> > would need an ISO for master branch, how do I get it if it is
> > available?
> 
> There isn't an ISO for master, as it hasn't been released.
> 

no problem I have installed Debian 10.9 and master-rtpreempt from
repositories.




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Re: [Emc-users] buildbot key contains no user id

2022-01-27 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Thu, 2022-01-27 at 12:23 +, andy pugh wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 at 11:06, Valerio Bellizzomi 
> wrote:
> 
> > Can you give me the URL for the hostmot firmware too?
> 
> Do you want the binaries or the (very out of date) version of the
> source hosted by LinuxCNC?
> 


the binaries ready to install, thank you Andy.





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Re: [Emc-users] buildbot key contains no user id

2022-01-27 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Thank you this worked.

Can you give me the URL for the hostmot firmware too?

Thanks

On Thu, 2022-01-27 at 20:37 +1100, phillcarter54 wrote:
> Instead of keys.openpgp.org try keyserver.ubuntu.com
>  Original message From: Valerio Bellizzomi
>  Date: 27/1/22  8:30 pm  (GMT+10:00) To: EMC
> Users  Subject: [Emc-users] buildbot
> key contains no user id I have installed debian 10.9 and edited
> /etc/apt/sources.list to addbuildbot repositories. When updating apt
> complains about keys, butinstallation of keys fails:# sudo apt-key
> adv --keyserver hkp://keys.openpgp.org:80 --recv-
> keyEF1B07FEE0EE663EExecuting: /tmp/apt-key-
> gpghome.J8qjQfXW6r/gpg.1.sh --keyserverhkp://keys.openpgp.org:80 --
> recv-key EF1B07FEE0EE663Egpg: key EF1B07FEE0EE663E: new key but
> contains no user ID - skippedgpg: Total number processed:
> 1gpg:   w/o user IDs: 1please
> help!___Emc-users mailing
> listemc-us...@lists.sourceforge.net
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[Emc-users] buildbot key contains no user id

2022-01-27 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
I have installed debian 10.9 and edited /etc/apt/sources.list to add
buildbot repositories. When updating apt complains about keys, but
installation of keys fails:

# sudo apt-key adv --keyserver hkp://keys.openpgp.org:80 --recv-key
EF1B07FEE0EE663E
Executing: /tmp/apt-key-gpghome.J8qjQfXW6r/gpg.1.sh --keyserver
hkp://keys.openpgp.org:80 --recv-key EF1B07FEE0EE663E
gpg: key EF1B07FEE0EE663E: new key but contains no user ID - skipped
gpg: Total number processed: 1
gpg:   w/o user IDs: 1


please help!




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Re: [Emc-users] Qtpyvcp error

2022-01-26 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Wed, 2022-01-26 at 16:42 +0100, Rene Hopf via Emc-users wrote:
> > On 26. Jan 2022, at 16:35, Valerio Bellizzomi 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > Which documentation?
> 
> https://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/getting-started/updating-linuxcnc.html#_python3_and_gtk3

thank you but this procedure did not work.
I am saving my directories and reinstalling the machine from scratch, I
would need an ISO for master branch, how do I get it if it is
available?


> 
> > thanks
> > 
> > 
> > > On Wed, 2022-01-26 at 16:16 +0100, Rene Hopf via Emc-users wrote:
> > > Did you recently pull master?
> > > You are using python 2.7 which isn’t supported in master anymore.
> > > The updating documentation has steps required to change the
> > > configuration for python related things.
> > > 
> > > > On 26. Jan 2022, at 16:03, Valerio Bellizzomi <
> > > > vale...@selnet.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > I got this error but this configuration was working before and
> > > > I
> > > > made
> > > > no changes. Can you help me?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ~$ linuxcnc ~/linuxcnc/configs/sim.qtpyvcp/xyzab.ini
> > > > LINUXCNC - 2.9.0-pre0-4771-ged1f4ddf7
> > > > Machine configuration directory is
> > > > '/home/sel/linuxcnc/configs/sim.qtpyvcp'
> > > > Machine configuration file is 'xyzab.ini'
> > > > Starting LinuxCNC...
> > > > File: tool.tbl Unrecognized line skipped:
> > > >   ;Tool  Pocket X Offset Y Offset Z
> > > > Offset Diameter Remark
> > > > Found file(REL): ./hallib/core_sim_5.hal
> > > > Note: Using POSIX realtime
> > > > motion.c: Creating unlock hal pins for joint 4
> > > > Found file(REL): ./hallib/spindle_sim.hal
> > > > Found file(REL): ./hallib/simulated_home_xyzab.hal
> > > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > > > File "/usr/local/bin/qtpyvcp", line 10, in 
> > > >   sys.exit(main())
> > > > File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-
> > > > packages/qtpyvcp/__init__.py",
> > > > line 90, in main
> > > >   from qtpyvcp.utilities.opt_parser import parse_opts
> > > > File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-
> > > > packages/qtpyvcp/utilities/opt_parser.py", line 55, in 
> > > >   from linuxcnc import ini
> > > > ImportError: No module named linuxcnc
> > > > Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...
> > > > task: 1 cycles,
> > > > min=17976931348623157081452742373170435679807056752584499659891
> > > > 7476
> > > > 8031
> > > > 572607800285387605895586327668781715404589535143824642343213268
> > > > 8946
> > > > 4182
> > > > 768467546703537516986049910576551282076245490090389328944075868
> > > > 5084
> > > > 5513
> > > > 394230458323690322294816580855933212334827479782620414472316873
> > > > 8177
> > > > 1809
> > > > 19299881250404026184124858368.00, max=0.00,
> > > > avg=0.00, 0
> > > > latency excursions (> 10x expecNote: Using POSIX realtime
> > > > LinuxCNC terminated with an error.  You can find more
> > > > information
> > > > in
> > > > the log:
> > > >   /home/sel/linuxcnc_debug.txt
> > > > and
> > > >   /home/sel/linuxcnc_print.txt
> > > > as well as in the output of the shell command 'dmesg' and in
> > > > the
> > > > terminal
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ___
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> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > 
> > > ___
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> > 
> > 
> > ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Qtpyvcp error

2022-01-26 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Which documentation?

thanks


On Wed, 2022-01-26 at 16:16 +0100, Rene Hopf via Emc-users wrote:
> Did you recently pull master?
> You are using python 2.7 which isn’t supported in master anymore.
> The updating documentation has steps required to change the
> configuration for python related things.
> 
> > On 26. Jan 2022, at 16:03, Valerio Bellizzomi 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > I got this error but this configuration was working before and I
> > made
> > no changes. Can you help me?
> > 
> > 
> > ~$ linuxcnc ~/linuxcnc/configs/sim.qtpyvcp/xyzab.ini
> > LINUXCNC - 2.9.0-pre0-4771-ged1f4ddf7
> > Machine configuration directory is
> > '/home/sel/linuxcnc/configs/sim.qtpyvcp'
> > Machine configuration file is 'xyzab.ini'
> > Starting LinuxCNC...
> > File: tool.tbl Unrecognized line skipped:
> >;Tool  Pocket X Offset Y Offset Z
> > Offset Diameter Remark
> > Found file(REL): ./hallib/core_sim_5.hal
> > Note: Using POSIX realtime
> > motion.c: Creating unlock hal pins for joint 4
> > Found file(REL): ./hallib/spindle_sim.hal
> > Found file(REL): ./hallib/simulated_home_xyzab.hal
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >  File "/usr/local/bin/qtpyvcp", line 10, in 
> >sys.exit(main())
> >  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/qtpyvcp/__init__.py",
> > line 90, in main
> >from qtpyvcp.utilities.opt_parser import parse_opts
> >  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-
> > packages/qtpyvcp/utilities/opt_parser.py", line 55, in 
> >from linuxcnc import ini
> > ImportError: No module named linuxcnc
> > Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...
> > task: 1 cycles,
> > min=179769313486231570814527423731704356798070567525844996598917476
> > 8031
> > 5726078002853876058955863276687817154045895351438246423432132688946
> > 4182
> > 7684675467035375169860499105765512820762454900903893289440758685084
> > 5513
> > 3942304583236903222948165808559332123348274797826204144723168738177
> > 1809
> > 19299881250404026184124858368.00, max=0.00, avg=0.00, 0
> > latency excursions (> 10x expecNote: Using POSIX realtime
> > LinuxCNC terminated with an error.  You can find more information
> > in
> > the log:
> >/home/sel/linuxcnc_debug.txt
> > and
> >/home/sel/linuxcnc_print.txt
> > as well as in the output of the shell command 'dmesg' and in the
> > terminal
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
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[Emc-users] Qtpyvcp error

2022-01-26 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
I got this error but this configuration was working before and I made
no changes. Can you help me?


~$ linuxcnc ~/linuxcnc/configs/sim.qtpyvcp/xyzab.ini
LINUXCNC - 2.9.0-pre0-4771-ged1f4ddf7
Machine configuration directory is
'/home/sel/linuxcnc/configs/sim.qtpyvcp'
Machine configuration file is 'xyzab.ini'
Starting LinuxCNC...
File: tool.tbl Unrecognized line skipped:
;Tool  Pocket X Offset Y Offset Z
Offset Diameter Remark
Found file(REL): ./hallib/core_sim_5.hal
Note: Using POSIX realtime
motion.c: Creating unlock hal pins for joint 4
Found file(REL): ./hallib/spindle_sim.hal
Found file(REL): ./hallib/simulated_home_xyzab.hal
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/bin/qtpyvcp", line 10, in 
sys.exit(main())
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/qtpyvcp/__init__.py",
line 90, in main
from qtpyvcp.utilities.opt_parser import parse_opts
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-
packages/qtpyvcp/utilities/opt_parser.py", line 55, in 
from linuxcnc import ini
ImportError: No module named linuxcnc
Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...
task: 1 cycles,
min=1797693134862315708145274237317043567980705675258449965989174768031
57260780028538760589558632766878171540458953514382464234321326889464182
76846754670353751698604991057655128207624549009038932894407586850845513
39423045832369032229481658085593321233482747978262041447231687381771809
19299881250404026184124858368.00, max=0.00, avg=0.00, 0
latency excursions (> 10x expecNote: Using POSIX realtime
LinuxCNC terminated with an error.  You can find more information in
the log:
/home/sel/linuxcnc_debug.txt
and
/home/sel/linuxcnc_print.txt
as well as in the output of the shell command 'dmesg' and in the
terminal



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Re: [Emc-users] The Code Of Conduct Fait Accompli

2021-07-23 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Since you replied to my post: the topic is closed for me, I accept the
CoC and move on, it doesn't affect my ability to be part of the
LinuxCNC community nor my ability to share my work here and ask
questions.

Kind regards.



On Fri, 2021-07-23 at 14:13 -0500, Bari wrote:
> On 7/22/21 4:35 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > I am making a big effort to understand why people is so adverse to
> > rules. Every project on sourceforge/github has to follow rules of
> > the
> > site, and some projects have their own CoC.
> > If you agreed to behave correctly before, the CoC should not affect
> > you, unless you want to misbehave now.
> > 
> > 
> They aren't adverse to some rules, just a dictated CoC.
> 
> Other factors:
> 
> Not obsessive-compulsive
> 
> Some people have far less fear of the world around us due to
> genetics, 
> psychotherapy, experience or maturity
> 
> Lack of transparency
> 
> Non democratic
> 
> Subjective rules
> 
> 
> An Updated Inquiry into the Study of Corporate Codes of Ethics:
> 2005–2016
> 
> https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10551-019-04192-x#Sec28
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] The Code Of Conduct Fait Accompli

2021-07-22 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Thu, 2021-07-22 at 17:13 +0200, grumpy via Emc-users wrote:
> > 
> > From: Valerio Bellizzomi 
> > Sent: Thu Jul 22 11:35:44 CEST 2021
> > To: 
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] The Code Of Conduct Fait Accompli
> > 
> > 
> > I am making a big effort to understand why people is so adverse to
> > rules. Every project on sourceforge/github has to follow rules of
> > the
> > site, and some projects have their own CoC.
> > If you agreed to behave correctly before, the CoC should not affect
> > you, unless you want to misbehave now.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, 2021-07-22 at 03:02 -0400, Bruce Layne wrote:
> > > The "discussion" is apparently over and we still have the Code of
> > > Conduct.
> > > 
> > > https://linuxcnc.org/CODE_OF_CONDUCT
> > > 
> > > It wasn't much of a discussion.  Questions were asked but there
> > > were
> > > no 
> > > meaningful answers.
> > > 
> > > At the risk of offending any programmers in the LinuxCNC
> > > community
> > > by 
> > > appropriating programmer culture, here is my pseudo code for the 
> > > LinuxCNC Code of Conduct Fait Accompli:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 01  IMPOSE CODE OF CONDUCT ON LINUXCNC COMMUNITY
> > > 02  IF COMPLAINTS > 0 THEN GOTO 02
> > > 03  END
> > > 
> > > 
> > > All of the complaints by those who didn't feel a code of conduct
> > > was 
> > > needed have apparently now concluded and those who wanted a code
> > > of 
> > > conduct to regulate other people's behavior have won without
> > > ever 
> > > engaging on the issues... without ever justifying why their code
> > > of 
> > > conduct was needed, without explaining what event might have 
> > > precipitated the rules imposed on others, etc.
> > > 
> > > There was no need to explain who would decide what is
> > > "disinformation" 
> > > or "conspiracy theories", or who would decide what is "other
> > > conduct 
> > > which could reasonably be considered inappropriate", or who would
> > > decide 
> > > what is "inappropriate language" or "inappropriate
> > > images".  There
> > > was 
> > > no need to explain why the Code of Conduct was required when
> > > there
> > > were 
> > > no hostile comments on this group until the Code of Conduct
> > > caused
> > > all 
> > > of the recent animosity, resulting in exactly what it purported
> > > to
> > > prevent.
> > > 
> > > One of the things I liked about LinuxCNC was that it was a
> > > community 
> > > effort.  Certainly there are a core group of contributors
> > > (greatly 
> > > appreciated), but nobody was perceived as being in charge.  There
> > > was
> > > a 
> > > spontaneous order arising from mutual cooperation.  This open
> > > source 
> > > community functioned very well without a lot of rules, and
> > > certainly 
> > > without any rulers.  I no longer feel that way.  At best, rather
> > > than 
> > > everyone behaving with courtesy and respect toward others because
> > > it's 
> > > the right thing to do, it now feels like coerced behavior.  I now
> > > feel 
> > > that this community is under the rule of unelected and as yet
> > > unnamed 
> > > rulers.
> > > 
> > > The process was so opaque that I still don't know if one person 
> > > unilaterally enacted the Code of Conduct, or was there some
> > > oligarchy 
> > > that made the decision after a secret discussion?
> > > 
> > > When someone violates one of the subjective rules in the new Code
> > > of 
> > > Conduct, will we then learn who the rulers are... or at least who
> > > the 
> > > enforcers are?  Or will dissidents be quietly disappeared in the
> > > middle 
> > > of the night?
> > > 
> > > An open source community that has always operated on mutual
> > > consent
> > > is 
> > > now operating under dictatorial decree with all objections
> > > ignored
> > > and 
> > > unanswered.  I think that's very sad.
> > > 
> > > I don't like the subjective rules in the Code of Conduct.  They
> > > seem 
> > > politically motivated and the 

Re: [Emc-users] The Code Of Conduct Fait Accompli

2021-07-22 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
I am making a big effort to understand why people is so adverse to
rules. Every project on sourceforge/github has to follow rules of the
site, and some projects have their own CoC.
If you agreed to behave correctly before, the CoC should not affect
you, unless you want to misbehave now.



On Thu, 2021-07-22 at 03:02 -0400, Bruce Layne wrote:
> The "discussion" is apparently over and we still have the Code of
> Conduct.
> 
> https://linuxcnc.org/CODE_OF_CONDUCT
> 
> It wasn't much of a discussion.  Questions were asked but there were
> no 
> meaningful answers.
> 
> At the risk of offending any programmers in the LinuxCNC community
> by 
> appropriating programmer culture, here is my pseudo code for the 
> LinuxCNC Code of Conduct Fait Accompli:
> 
> 
> 01  IMPOSE CODE OF CONDUCT ON LINUXCNC COMMUNITY
> 02  IF COMPLAINTS > 0 THEN GOTO 02
> 03  END
> 
> 
> All of the complaints by those who didn't feel a code of conduct was 
> needed have apparently now concluded and those who wanted a code of 
> conduct to regulate other people's behavior have won without ever 
> engaging on the issues... without ever justifying why their code of 
> conduct was needed, without explaining what event might have 
> precipitated the rules imposed on others, etc.
> 
> There was no need to explain who would decide what is
> "disinformation" 
> or "conspiracy theories", or who would decide what is "other conduct 
> which could reasonably be considered inappropriate", or who would
> decide 
> what is "inappropriate language" or "inappropriate images".  There
> was 
> no need to explain why the Code of Conduct was required when there
> were 
> no hostile comments on this group until the Code of Conduct caused
> all 
> of the recent animosity, resulting in exactly what it purported to
> prevent.
> 
> One of the things I liked about LinuxCNC was that it was a community 
> effort.  Certainly there are a core group of contributors (greatly 
> appreciated), but nobody was perceived as being in charge.  There was
> a 
> spontaneous order arising from mutual cooperation.  This open source 
> community functioned very well without a lot of rules, and certainly 
> without any rulers.  I no longer feel that way.  At best, rather
> than 
> everyone behaving with courtesy and respect toward others because
> it's 
> the right thing to do, it now feels like coerced behavior.  I now
> feel 
> that this community is under the rule of unelected and as yet
> unnamed 
> rulers.
> 
> The process was so opaque that I still don't know if one person 
> unilaterally enacted the Code of Conduct, or was there some
> oligarchy 
> that made the decision after a secret discussion?
> 
> When someone violates one of the subjective rules in the new Code of 
> Conduct, will we then learn who the rulers are... or at least who
> the 
> enforcers are?  Or will dissidents be quietly disappeared in the
> middle 
> of the night?
> 
> An open source community that has always operated on mutual consent
> is 
> now operating under dictatorial decree with all objections ignored
> and 
> unanswered.  I think that's very sad.
> 
> I don't like the subjective rules in the Code of Conduct.  They seem 
> politically motivated and the vague rules can be selectively
> enforced.  
> I also feel that the Code of Conduct will cause problems rather than 
> preventing problems.  That concern seems warranted based on the
> hostile 
> arguments we've already suffered as a direct result of the Code of 
> Conduct.  Mostly, I didn't like the way the Code of Conduct was 
> unilaterally decreed without discussion, and when a few people tried
> to 
> initiate a discussion, they were ignored by the person who posted
> the 
> Code of Conduct.  I'm left with the feeling that there wasn't any 
> explanation for why the Code of Conduct was needed because there
> wasn't 
> an actual need to regulate the behavior of a group that has been
> self 
> regulated for decades.  The Code of Conduct couldn't be justified,
> so 
> there was no effort to justify it.  If there was an actual need, why 
> wasn't there a discussion that led to community standards that were 
> established by the community?  That would have been a far less 
> contentious process than someone posting the new Code of Conduct for 
> everyone else to follow without prior discussion and without any 
> community consensus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] GenericCAM

2021-07-19 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Mon, 2021-07-19 at 10:43 -0700, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > I would argue that point, its pre-alpha status, no useable code
> > yet. The
> > promise is there, and it sounds good. I would love to be able to do
> > something in openscad, export the .stl, and carve it on my 6040 or
> > G0704. So the site got bookmarked and will be watched. But the
> > prospectus pdf was written in 2012, so in 9 years I would have
> > assumed
> > SOME code would be written.
> > 
> 
> I agree, it is not useful yet and progress is slow.  They do have
> quite a
> lot of C++ code written but the last work was added in May 2020 and
> it
> seems there is only one person working on this.
> 
> I am also alarmed that they use STL files as input.   All the intent
> is
> "gone" when you save as STL.  For example, a threaded blind hole is
> just a
> shape made with a thousand triangles and the software would never
> know to
> use a drill and tap.  Same with curves, the STL is a list of
> straight segments and the software would never know that a curve was
> intended.
> 
> A better CAM system would start with STEP files.  STEP describes
> geometry,
> whereas STL approximates shape using many line segments.
> 
> Today a good-enough free CAD is Fusion360 but the free version is
> limited
> to three-axis milling.


I have always used STL files when saving from FreeCAD, they work well
with PyCAM. But PyCAM situation is even worse, the author has been
unresponsive in the last two years and has never fixed the latest
issues, so GenericCAM is more recent, and also it is not limited to 3
axis.

Never used Fusion360 which is commercial and as you say the free
version is limited.


> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > > http://genericcam.sourceforge.net/
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable.
> >  - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > 
> 
> 



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Re: [Emc-users] GenericCAM

2021-07-19 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Mon, 2021-07-19 at 11:41 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Jul 2021 at 11:35, Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > so in 9 years I would have assumed
> > SOME code would be written.
> 
> There is some code, though you have to look for it:
> 
> https://sourceforge.net/p/genericcam/git/ci/master/tree/
> 

I have compiled that code on Ubuntu and it works properly, but you will
have to do some experimental discovery because the documentation is not
exhaustive. The hardest thing is to learn how to define a machine
inside the program by looking at included examples, once that is done
things are smooth enough.





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[Emc-users] GenericCAM

2021-07-19 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Already posted this on IRC but just in case:

it is a very good program:

http://genericcam.sourceforge.net/





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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-07-18 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Sun, 2021-07-18 at 22:07 -0600, R C wrote:
> On 7/18/21 9:58 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Sun, 2021-07-18 at 21:33 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > On 7/18/21 9:24 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 2021-07-18 at 21:16 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > > > On 7/18/21 9:08 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > > > On Sat, 2021-07-17 at 16:33 -0400, Dave Cole wrote:
> > > > > > > I missed the beginning as well, but I think something
> > > > > > > happened
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > not on this email list that prompted the COC stuff ?
> > > > > > > Perhaps it was an attempt to prevent a future issue!?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I really have no idea.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > No one has ever explained why it was written or why it is
> > > > > > > important.   I
> > > > > > > asked more than once  and the response was
> > > > > > > "crickets".
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Personally, I don't see the need for it.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I'm not big into making up or accepting additional rules
> > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > can't
> > > > > > > be explained.
> > > > > > > You saw the results of this "non-event".   It wasn't
> > > > > > > pretty.   If
> > > > > > > someone thinks this is needed.  Pipe up and say why.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Anyway, I think we need to remember that LCNC is a
> > > > > > > "cooperative
> > > > > > > effort"
> > > > > > > between a number of very intelligent folks.
> > > > > > I only write here occasionally, and really it isn't a big
> > > > > > deal
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > follow the CoC, it even might learn something to the
> > > > > > malicious
> > > > > > who
> > > > > > thinks this list is a good place to do trolling: don't even
> > > > > > start.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Sincerely there is very intelligent people here, but in
> > > > > > some
> > > > > > cases
> > > > > > intelligence falls short when it comes to abide to an
> > > > > > objectively
> > > > > > tiny
> > > > > > set of additional rules for the common good.
> > > > > Rules about conduct are never objective, they are created by
> > > > > someone
> > > > > for
> > > > > others, and for a purpose that that  CoC writer prefers, and
> > > > > therefor
> > > > > not objective, but subjective.  Hence the ongoing 'class S'
> > > > > storm
> > > > > you
> > > > > see going on here, and rightfully so.
> > > > You are again misunderstanding my words: I didn't say that
> > > > rules
> > > > are
> > > > objective, I said it is an objectively tiny set of rules
> > > > (compared
> > > > to
> > > > some other CoC like the Sourceforge one and the W3C one).
> > > > And yes, who runs the project has admin rights and owns it in
> > > > practice,
> > > > and has the right to issue rules for others to follow.
> > > You need to meticulously read what you just sent, possibly more
> > > than
> > > just once,  but please use a dictionary when you do, too look up
> > > the
> > > meaning of words like "objective"..   I had to learn English
> > > too,  it
> > > is
> > > my second language,  I know it can be hard at times.
> > > 
> > > (although I  actually have the impression that you're just
> > > spewing
> > > nonsense, and when someone calls you on it, you claim them to be
> > > too
> > > dumb and not actually understand what it is you said. That is not
> > > how
> > > language works.).
> > I wrote exactly the thing I had in mind and it is absolutely the
> > right
> > thing, the meaning is the same in italian and in english:
> 
> So it's nonsense in both languages...   

Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-07-18 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Sun, 2021-07-18 at 21:33 -0600, R C wrote:
> On 7/18/21 9:24 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Sun, 2021-07-18 at 21:16 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > On 7/18/21 9:08 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 2021-07-17 at 16:33 -0400, Dave Cole wrote:
> > > > > I missed the beginning as well, but I think something
> > > > > happened
> > > > > that
> > > > > was
> > > > > not on this email list that prompted the COC stuff ?
> > > > > Perhaps it was an attempt to prevent a future issue!?
> > > > > 
> > > > > I really have no idea.
> > > > > 
> > > > > No one has ever explained why it was written or why it is
> > > > > important.   I
> > > > > asked more than once  and the response was "crickets".
> > > > > 
> > > > > Personally, I don't see the need for it.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I'm not big into making up or accepting additional rules when
> > > > > they
> > > > > can't
> > > > > be explained.
> > > > > You saw the results of this "non-event".   It wasn't
> > > > > pretty.   If
> > > > > someone thinks this is needed.  Pipe up and say why.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Anyway, I think we need to remember that LCNC is a
> > > > > "cooperative
> > > > > effort"
> > > > > between a number of very intelligent folks.
> > > > I only write here occasionally, and really it isn't a big deal
> > > > to
> > > > follow the CoC, it even might learn something to the malicious
> > > > who
> > > > thinks this list is a good place to do trolling: don't even
> > > > start.
> > > > 
> > > > Sincerely there is very intelligent people here, but in some
> > > > cases
> > > > intelligence falls short when it comes to abide to an
> > > > objectively
> > > > tiny
> > > > set of additional rules for the common good.
> > > Rules about conduct are never objective, they are created by
> > > someone
> > > for
> > > others, and for a purpose that that  CoC writer prefers, and
> > > therefor
> > > not objective, but subjective.  Hence the ongoing 'class S' storm
> > > you
> > > see going on here, and rightfully so.
> > You are again misunderstanding my words: I didn't say that rules
> > are
> > objective, I said it is an objectively tiny set of rules (compared
> > to
> > some other CoC like the Sourceforge one and the W3C one).
> > And yes, who runs the project has admin rights and owns it in
> > practice,
> > and has the right to issue rules for others to follow.
> 
> You need to meticulously read what you just sent, possibly more than 
> just once,  but please use a dictionary when you do, too look up the 
> meaning of words like "objective"..   I had to learn English too,  it
> is 
> my second language,  I know it can be hard at times.
> 
> (although I  actually have the impression that you're just spewing 
> nonsense, and when someone calls you on it, you claim them to be too 
> dumb and not actually understand what it is you said. That is not
> how 
> language works.).

I wrote exactly the thing I had in mind and it is absolutely the right
thing, the meaning is the same in italian and in english:

https://context.reverso.net/traduzione/italiano-inglese/Oggettivamente

"
Oggettivamente è giustificabile, è corretto. -> Objectively this is
justifiable, it is correct.

Oggettivamente parlando, - ha un aspetto più virile. -> Objectively
speaking, he does appear more virile. 
"


> 
> 
> > 
> > > > > Being "cooperative" and "helpful" is a personal
> > > > > decision.   It
> > > > > doesn't
> > > > > take much to cause people to "not be" cooperative and
> > > > > helpful!
> > > > > Tread lightly!
> > > > > 
> > > > > I think that LCNC has been a huge success and has helped
> > > > > humanity.
> > > > > Try and find something else you have done that has "helped
> > > > > humanity".
> > > > > That is BIG.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Lets not blow it.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Again, I want to thank those folks on this list who have
> > > > > helped
> > >

Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-07-18 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Sun, 2021-07-18 at 21:33 -0600, R C wrote:
> On 7/18/21 9:24 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Sun, 2021-07-18 at 21:16 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > On 7/18/21 9:08 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 2021-07-17 at 16:33 -0400, Dave Cole wrote:
> > > > > I missed the beginning as well, but I think something
> > > > > happened
> > > > > that
> > > > > was
> > > > > not on this email list that prompted the COC stuff ?
> > > > > Perhaps it was an attempt to prevent a future issue!?
> > > > > 
> > > > > I really have no idea.
> > > > > 
> > > > > No one has ever explained why it was written or why it is
> > > > > important.   I
> > > > > asked more than once  and the response was "crickets".
> > > > > 
> > > > > Personally, I don't see the need for it.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I'm not big into making up or accepting additional rules when
> > > > > they
> > > > > can't
> > > > > be explained.
> > > > > You saw the results of this "non-event".   It wasn't
> > > > > pretty.   If
> > > > > someone thinks this is needed.  Pipe up and say why.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Anyway, I think we need to remember that LCNC is a
> > > > > "cooperative
> > > > > effort"
> > > > > between a number of very intelligent folks.
> > > > I only write here occasionally, and really it isn't a big deal
> > > > to
> > > > follow the CoC, it even might learn something to the malicious
> > > > who
> > > > thinks this list is a good place to do trolling: don't even
> > > > start.
> > > > 
> > > > Sincerely there is very intelligent people here, but in some
> > > > cases
> > > > intelligence falls short when it comes to abide to an
> > > > objectively
> > > > tiny
> > > > set of additional rules for the common good.
> > > Rules about conduct are never objective, they are created by
> > > someone
> > > for
> > > others, and for a purpose that that  CoC writer prefers, and
> > > therefor
> > > not objective, but subjective.  Hence the ongoing 'class S' storm
> > > you
> > > see going on here, and rightfully so.
> > You are again misunderstanding my words: I didn't say that rules
> > are
> > objective, I said it is an objectively tiny set of rules (compared
> > to
> > some other CoC like the Sourceforge one and the W3C one).
> > And yes, who runs the project has admin rights and owns it in
> > practice,
> > and has the right to issue rules for others to follow.
> 
> You need to meticulously read what you just sent, possibly more than 
> just once,  but please use a dictionary when you do, too look up the 
> meaning of words like "objective"..   I had to learn English too,  it
> is 
> my second language,  I know it can be hard at times.
> 
> (although I  actually have the impression that you're just spewing 
> nonsense, and when someone calls you on it, you claim them to be too 
> dumb and not actually understand what it is you said. That is not
> how 
> language works.).


The CoC is just an application of real world practices: it is like you
went visiting me at home, not only you have to follow the law, in
addition you have to follow my rules if you want to stay, and if you
start a flame against my rules it is sure that you cannot stay, because
I own the home and have the right to kick you out.



> 
> > 
> > > > > Being "cooperative" and "helpful" is a personal
> > > > > decision.   It
> > > > > doesn't
> > > > > take much to cause people to "not be" cooperative and
> > > > > helpful!
> > > > > Tread lightly!
> > > > > 
> > > > > I think that LCNC has been a huge success and has helped
> > > > > humanity.
> > > > > Try and find something else you have done that has "helped
> > > > > humanity".
> > > > > That is BIG.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Lets not blow it.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Again, I want to thank those folks on this list who have
> > > > > helped
> > > > > me
> > > > > and
> > > > > others with LCNC.
> > > >

Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-07-18 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Sun, 2021-07-18 at 21:16 -0600, R C wrote:
> On 7/18/21 9:08 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Sat, 2021-07-17 at 16:33 -0400, Dave Cole wrote:
> > > I missed the beginning as well, but I think something happened
> > > that
> > > was
> > > not on this email list that prompted the COC stuff ?
> > > Perhaps it was an attempt to prevent a future issue!?
> > > 
> > > I really have no idea.
> > > 
> > > No one has ever explained why it was written or why it is
> > > important.   I
> > > asked more than once  and the response was "crickets".
> > > 
> > > Personally, I don't see the need for it.
> > > 
> > > I'm not big into making up or accepting additional rules when
> > > they
> > > can't
> > > be explained.
> > > You saw the results of this "non-event".   It wasn't pretty.   If
> > > someone thinks this is needed.  Pipe up and say why.
> > > 
> > > Anyway, I think we need to remember that LCNC is a "cooperative
> > > effort"
> > > between a number of very intelligent folks.
> > I only write here occasionally, and really it isn't a big deal to
> > follow the CoC, it even might learn something to the malicious who
> > thinks this list is a good place to do trolling: don't even start.
> > 
> > Sincerely there is very intelligent people here, but in some cases
> > intelligence falls short when it comes to abide to an objectively
> > tiny
> > set of additional rules for the common good.
> 
> Rules about conduct are never objective, they are created by someone
> for 
> others, and for a purpose that that  CoC writer prefers, and
> therefor 
> not objective, but subjective.  Hence the ongoing 'class S' storm
> you 
> see going on here, and rightfully so.

You are again misunderstanding my words: I didn't say that rules are
objective, I said it is an objectively tiny set of rules (compared to
some other CoC like the Sourceforge one and the W3C one).
And yes, who runs the project has admin rights and owns it in practice,
and has the right to issue rules for others to follow.


> 
> 
> > 
> > > Being "cooperative" and "helpful" is a personal decision.   It
> > > doesn't
> > > take much to cause people to "not be" cooperative and helpful!
> > > Tread lightly!
> > > 
> > > I think that LCNC has been a huge success and has helped
> > > humanity.
> > > Try and find something else you have done that has "helped
> > > humanity".
> > > That is BIG.
> > > 
> > > Lets not blow it.
> > > 
> > > Again, I want to thank those folks on this list who have helped
> > > me
> > > and
> > > others with LCNC.
> > > I really appreciate your efforts!  :-)
> > > 
> > > Dave
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 7/17/2021 1:28 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
> > > > WOW - I missed it all!
> > > > 
> > > > My wife and I left 24 Jun 2021 and returned 07 Jul 2021. I
> > > > didn't
> > > > check
> > > > emails until we returned.
> > > > 
> > > > Seems to me a lot of people confuse the right to comment with
> > > > the
> > > > obligation to comment.
> > > > 
> > > > The COC appears to be a compilation of what everyone on the
> > > > list
> > > > has been
> > > > doing all along. Therefore, Jeff's comment, "a non-event", is
> > > > appropriate.
> > > > 
> > > > I don't know what triggered the need for putting in the work to
> > > > develop the
> > > > COC but I trust Jeff has identified the need.
> > > > 
> > > > I don't know who/what is going to be the COC sheriff but it
> > > > will be
> > > > a
> > > > thankless job. Even more thankless than general development. :)
> > > > 
> > > > It is my hope the job of COC sheriff is somewhat less
> > > > interesting
> > > > than the
> > > > maytag repairman job.
> > > > 
> > > > thank you Jeff for your attention and work
> > > > 
> > > > Stuart
> > > > 
> > > > I was encouraged when I saw Valerio comment about making a
> > > > project.
> > > > He is
> > > > thinking about getting back to work. We should follow his
> > > > thought
> > > > pat

Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-07-18 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Sat, 2021-07-17 at 16:33 -0400, Dave Cole wrote:
> I missed the beginning as well, but I think something happened that
> was 
> not on this email list that prompted the COC stuff ?
> Perhaps it was an attempt to prevent a future issue!?
> 
> I really have no idea.
> 
> No one has ever explained why it was written or why it is
> important.   I 
> asked more than once  and the response was "crickets".
> 
> Personally, I don't see the need for it.
> 
> I'm not big into making up or accepting additional rules when they
> can't 
> be explained.
> You saw the results of this "non-event".   It wasn't pretty.   If 
> someone thinks this is needed.  Pipe up and say why.
> 
> Anyway, I think we need to remember that LCNC is a "cooperative
> effort" 
> between a number of very intelligent folks.

I only write here occasionally, and really it isn't a big deal to
follow the CoC, it even might learn something to the malicious who
thinks this list is a good place to do trolling: don't even start.

Sincerely there is very intelligent people here, but in some cases
intelligence falls short when it comes to abide to an objectively tiny
set of additional rules for the common good.


> Being "cooperative" and "helpful" is a personal decision.   It
> doesn't 
> take much to cause people to "not be" cooperative and helpful!
> Tread lightly!
> 
> I think that LCNC has been a huge success and has helped humanity.
> Try and find something else you have done that has "helped humanity".
> That is BIG.
> 
> Lets not blow it.
> 
> Again, I want to thank those folks on this list who have helped me
> and 
> others with LCNC.
> I really appreciate your efforts!  :-)
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> On 7/17/2021 1:28 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
> > WOW - I missed it all!
> > 
> > My wife and I left 24 Jun 2021 and returned 07 Jul 2021. I didn't
> > check
> > emails until we returned.
> > 
> > Seems to me a lot of people confuse the right to comment with the
> > obligation to comment.
> > 
> > The COC appears to be a compilation of what everyone on the list
> > has been
> > doing all along. Therefore, Jeff's comment, "a non-event", is
> > appropriate.
> > 
> > I don't know what triggered the need for putting in the work to
> > develop the
> > COC but I trust Jeff has identified the need.
> > 
> > I don't know who/what is going to be the COC sheriff but it will be
> > a
> > thankless job. Even more thankless than general development. :)
> > 
> > It is my hope the job of COC sheriff is somewhat less interesting
> > than the
> > maytag repairman job.
> > 
> > thank you Jeff for your attention and work
> > 
> > Stuart
> > 
> > I was encouraged when I saw Valerio comment about making a project.
> > He is
> > thinking about getting back to work. We should follow his thought
> > pattern.
> > :)
> > 
> > My only negative feeling was when it was suggested a democratic
> > vote would
> > fix it. Democracy is mob rule - nothing else. It is one hundred
> > people
> > walking into a restaurant and waiting until 51 have agreed on what
> > to eat
> > and then everyone has to eat what the 51 decided everyone needs to
> > eat. Not
> > pleasant.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 6:48 AM Mark Wendt 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 6:07 AM andy pugh 
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 at 09:55, Mark 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Bullshit.  It's a sign that someone(s) wants to create
> > > > > political
> > > > > division and strife
> > > > No, I think that we can be 100% sure that that was never Jeff's
> > > intention.
> > > > --
> > > > atp
> > > > 
> > > It may not have been his intention but it certainly has turned
> > > the group
> > > into just that.
> > > 
> > > Mark
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users





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[Emc-users] Settlement on CoC topic

2021-07-13 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
I am disgusted by the reactions of detractors of the CoC which Jeff
proposed, and by being attacked privately like an enemy for my own
freely-shared opinions.

That is why I am going to set digest mode on for the mailing list, so
that I will read messages once every month and not be harassed every
day by this useless anti-CoC endeavour, which is a distraction that
diverts my time from useful work. So you know that whatever you post it
will be read at end of the month and not immediately.

Taking now to private mail messages off-list: I have set a filter for
marking as spam everything from this list with off-list destination to
my private address, exception for the list admins.
Those who insist writing off-list to this private address will be
reported to their respective mail providers, again exception for the
list admins.


Stay well and God be with you.






 Forwarded Message 
From: Bruce Layne 
To: Valerio Bellizzomi 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users - OFF LIST] Code of Conduct
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2021 00:03:31 -0400
Mailer: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
 Thunderbird/78.11.0



On 7/12/21 9:21 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
LinuxCNC is a rare case in such, a blinkenlight in the darkness.
See if that endures after the mess.

That sounds a bit like an arsonist taking credit for a fire.  The mess
was caused by the Code of Conduct being forced on the community, and
now it's threatening to destroy the community.

>From my perspective, it sounds like, "LinuxCNC has never needed a Code
of Conduct, but we're going to force you to have one, and if you
resist, we'll destroy LinuxCNC.  You can either give in to our demands
and exploit LinuxCNC as a vehicle to extend our political beliefs, or
we'll destroy LinuxCNC and you'll have nothing."

The sad part is, the second law of thermodynamics implies that it's
easier to destroy rather than create.  There are plenty of recent
examples of a few politically motivated individuals destroying
projects, doxing people and getting them fired, bullying corporations
into making political statements, etc.  It's called cancel culture and
it's feared with good reason.  It took a lot of work to build Rome but
it was comparatively a simple and easy thing for the Visigoths to
destroy it.

As an engineer, I see myself as a builder - someone who is working to
reverse entropy to create, and not a modern day Visigoth using entropy
to destroy what others have created.







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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-07-12 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2021-07-13 at 02:05 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> So forcing CoC on all others is mature behaviour, isn't it?
>
> Nik


yes, it is sign that one cares about the quality of the project.



> Anno domini 2021 Mon, 12 Jul 22:12:51 +0100
>  Les Newell scripsit:
> > As I pointed out before the list admins have had the power to ban
> > users 
> > for a very long time. You agreed to that when you signed up. They
> > have 
> > of course used their fascist dictator powers to ... maybe ban a
> > few 
> > spammers. Oh the injustice!
> > 
> > If anyone here has abused their power it's you. You got upset so
> > just to 
> > spite everyone you pulled your remaster, hurting the users of that 
> > remaster when they had nothing to do with this. I may expect that 
> > behaviour from a child but I assume you are an adult.
> > 
> > Les
> > 
> > 
> > On 12/07/2021 21:39, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > Please stop mailing me in private.
> > > 
> > > Mailinglist CoC is not in the code nor in the forum. If the list
> > > starts to get "funny" just change the provider. If the forum get
> > > "strange", change it. Sourceforge had it's share of lost userbase
> > > when they tried monetarizing the community - didn't turn out well
> > > for them. Now you put CoC into the code - that's embarrasing.
> > > 
> > > May it have occured to you that there have already been users
> > > leaving because CoC? No? E.g. BeagleBrainz from the forum? I'm
> > > sure you had real problems with that person in the last decade.
> > > Thanks to CoC that problem is gone.
> > > 
> > > And where did I say I leave? I pulled the plug from my linuxcnc
> > > remaster. As I said, forcing politics on a technical project is a
> > > no-go for me, so the reamaster is gone. But I also said, I'm sure
> > > some of the excelent policemen will make a perfect remaster, I'm
> > > 100% sure. Or why else are they called "the police - your friend
> > > and helper"? Put that on the "well done CoC" list, too.
> > > 
> > > But you are free to ban me from the list and/or the forum. Just
> > > do it - now that you have CoC it's the perfect time to make an
> > > example. You can always say "oh look, we never had problems with
> > > this guy before, but thanks to CoC he showed us his real
> > > nature.  And thanks to CoC we can ban him proactively, at last!
> > > What a great achievement! Praise CoC!"
> > > 
> > > I would just appreciate if you could do it in public.
> > > 
> > > Nik
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > 
> 
> 



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-07-12 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 19:15 -0400, Bruce Layne wrote:
> On 7/12/21 4:27 PM, Dave Cole wrote:
> > The argument that no professional organizations or people will be 
> > attracted to a project without a COC is nonsense.
> 
> LinuxCNC has succeeded brilliantly all of these years without a Code
> of 
> Conduct, and I saw nothing that necessitated a CoC.  It seems to
> have 
> been externally mandated without cause.


LinuxCNC is a rare case in such, a blinkenlight in the darkness.
See if that endures after the mess.


> 
> 
> 
> On 7/12/21 5:12 PM, Les Newell wrote:
> > ...the list admins have had the power to ban users for a very long 
> > time. You agreed to that when you signed up.  They have of course
> > used 
> > their fascist dictator powers to... maybe ban a few spammers.
> 
> The Terms of Service were apparently sufficient to regulate behavior,
> or 
> more likely, were not needed because everyone acted as an adult and 
> moderated their own behavior.  Why add an unneeded Code of Conduct
> to 
> the sufficient or unneeded Terms of Service?  Nobody was being
> banned 
> because everyone played nice... for decades.  But that's not good 
> enough.  Now we have an externally mandated Code of Conduct to
> further 
> regulate self regulated civil behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> The Code of Conduct is worse than a solution in search of a
> problem.  
> It's now proven to be a divisive political tool that is a solution to
> a 
> problem of its own creation.  I've been a member of the LinuxCNC 
> community for over 15 years and have never seen such acrimony -
> vicious 
> bickering, people leaving the community, others pulling their 
> contributions...  and it all started as a result of the new Code of 
> Conduct.  Given the strife it has caused, the only way to justify
> the 
> Code of Conduct would be as a tool to divide the community along 
> previously irrelevant and unseen political lines, turn us against
> each 
> other, and drive away anyone with a differing political opinion.
> 
> I hate to see the divisive toxic politics that have recently
> infested 
> the world now destroying the LinuxCNC community.  Are we going to see
> a 
> fork of LinuxCNC into a red team version and blue team version? 
> Ugh.  
> Why am I now being forced to endorse or oppose someone's political 
> views?  I'm only here for the CNC.
> 
> I previously suggested that an appropriate Code of Conduct would be, 
> "Y'all be cool."  If that's not enough for the LinuxCNC community,
> then 
> perhaps it could be amended to include, "Politics are divisive and 
> counterproductive to a technical open source community, so keep your 
> politics to yourself."
> 
> I realize this isn't a democracy, but if it were, I'd cast my vote
> for 
> deleting this deadly Code of Conduct before it completely tears this 
> community apart.  It's caused nothing but trouble.  I miss the
> peaceful 
> days before the Code of Conduct, when we all got along because we
> were 
> focused on the technical issues we had in common rather than being 
> forced to focus on the politics that divide us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-07-12 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
So do you who started firstly.


On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 22:39 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> Please stop mailing me in private.
> 
> Mailinglist CoC is not in the code nor in the forum. If the list
> starts to get "funny" just change the provider. If the forum get
> "strange", change it. Sourceforge had it's share of lost userbase
> when they tried monetarizing the community - didn't turn out well for
> them. Now you put CoC into the code - that's embarrasing.
> 
> May it have occured to you that there have already been users leaving
> because CoC? No? E.g. BeagleBrainz from the forum? I'm sure you had
> real problems with that person in the last decade. Thanks to CoC that
> problem is gone.
> 
> And where did I say I leave? I pulled the plug from my linuxcnc
> remaster. As I said, forcing politics on a technical project is a no-
> go for me, so the reamaster is gone. But I also said, I'm sure some
> of the excelent policemen will make a perfect remaster, I'm 100%
> sure. Or why else are they called "the police - your friend and
> helper"? Put that on the "well done CoC" list, too. 
> 
> But you are free to ban me from the list and/or the forum. Just do it
> - now that you have CoC it's the perfect time to make an example. You
> can always say "oh look, we never had problems with this guy before,
> but thanks to CoC he showed us his real nature.  And thanks to CoC we
> can ban him proactively, at last! What a great achievement! Praise
> CoC!"
> 
> I would just appreciate if you could do it in public.
> 
> Nik
> 
> Anno domini 2021 Mon, 12 Jul 21:42:29 +0200
>  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > Did you read Les's message?
> > I replay it here for your convenience:
> > 
> > "You do know you agreed to a much more restrictive CoC when you
> > joined
> > this mailing list, don't you? Here is the full agreement:
> > <https://slashdotmedia.com/terms-of-use>
> > This is linked from the EMC-users subscription form <
> > https://sourceforge.net/projects/emc/lists/emc-users>;
> > 
> > If you agreed to that, why are you so stressed about the one Jeff 
> > proposed? If you don't agree you'd best unsubscribe quickly before
> > it
> > upsets you."
> > 
> > However, I see that you are still here after saying that you would
> > leave, so my suspicion has become certainty.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 20:23 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > That's exactly why policemen and theit CoC are unbearable. 
> > > 
> > > Nik
> > > 
> > > Anno domini 2021 Mon, 12 Jul 20:14:42 +0200
> > >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > Since you are unable to accept such a mild restrictive form, I
> > > > think I suspect what kind of person you are, so I'm glad you're
> > > > leaving.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 19:36 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > > Well, dear friends, as the CoC policemen with their CoC are
> > > > > more
> > > > > important than any thing I decided to pull the plug and took
> > > > > my
> > > > > remasters offline. You can read more about it here: 
> > > > > https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/40260-iso-to-test-exegnulinux-remasterd-with-linuxcnc-a-lots-of-tools-and-no-systemd
> > > > > 
> > > > > I can only suggest for all contributors (how minor their
> > > > > effort
> > > > > may
> > > > > be) not in line with forcing a political agenda onto a
> > > > > technical
> > > > > project to do the same.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Nik
> > > > > 
> > > > > Anno domini 2021 Mon, 12 Jul 18:15:12 +0100
> > > > >  Les Newell scripsit:
> > > > > > You do know you agreed to a much more restrictive CoC when
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > joined 
> > > > > > this mailing list, don't you? Here is the full agreement:
> > > > > > <https://slashdotmedia.com/terms-of-use>
> > > > > > This is linked from the EMC-users subscription form 
> > > > > > <https://sourceforge.net/projects/emc/lists/emc-users>
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > If you agreed to that, why are you so stressed about the
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > Jeff 
> > > > > > proposed? If you don'

Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-07-12 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 18:15 +0100, Les Newell wrote:
> You do know you agreed to a much more restrictive CoC when you
> joined 
> this mailing list, don't you? Here is the full agreement:
> 
> This is linked from the EMC-users subscription form 
> 
> 
> If you agreed to that, why are you so stressed about the one Jeff 
> proposed? If you don't agree you'd best unsubscribe quickly before
> it 
> upsets you.
> 
> Les


+1



> 
> On 12/07/2021 09:03, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > You don't realise that forcing CoC on others is exactly what's the
> > problem with CoC. Just drop that fing CoC nonsens and
> > everythings going to be civilized again. But I see, this won't
> > happen. That's the whole point of forcing CoC: faschism.
> > 
> > Nik
> > 
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users





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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-07-12 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
agreeing totally.



On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 09:23 +0200, jeanfrancois wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Can we end this topic please ?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Jean-François
> 
> Le 12/07/2021 à 09:19, Valerio Bellizzomi a écrit :
> > Your trollish behavior is exactly what a CoC is sensed to eradicate
> > from professional communities.
> > Tha's why you exercise such violent opposition.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 01:12 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > because you don't have a point. Other than the Mussolini one.
> > > 
> > > On 7/12/21 1:08 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > I don't really want to talk with a troll like you.
> > > > 
> > > > Communication terminated.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 00:10 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > > > On 7/11/21 11:45 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > > > Nobody stops you,
> > > > > exactly my point, that's your non-existent necessity
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > however your project will not gain much professional
> > > > > > attraction.
> > > > > oh really? you're that clairvoyant? "professional attraction"
> > > > > ??
> > > > > Haha!!   progress was never accomplished by those that played
> > > > > by
> > > > > the
> > > > > rules...   that's why it's called progress  aka rebellion
> > > > > ..  you
> > > > > have
> > > > > to ignore the establishment ..   the ones that want you to
> > > > > behave
> > > > > under
> > > > > their control ...  as is done/attempted with
> > > > > CoC's...   'nothing'
> > > > > will
> > > > > ever be accomplished by CoC's other than a futile attempt to
> > > > > safeguard
> > > > > established thinking, or cover your ass for legal
> > > > > reasons..   CoC's
> > > > > live
> > > > > in a world where nothing new is allowed.
> > > > > 
> > > > > > On Sun, 2021-07-11 at 22:55 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > > > > > No it isn't,
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I can start a open source project tomorrow (not today,
> > > > > > > cause
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > getting late), and not have a CoC, and who is going to
> > > > > > > stop
> > > > > > > me,
> > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > doesn't have a CoC?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On 7/11/21 10:46 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > > > > > Every open source project on Github.com and Sourceforge
> > > > > > > > has
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > Code
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > Conduct, this is a necessary part of every public
> > > > > > > > project.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 14:06 +0930, 
> > > > > > > > dva...@internode.on.net
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Valerio wrote: >>
> > > > > > > > >  So it be. Andy, my apologies for trying to
> > > > > > > > > support
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > adoption
> > > > > > > > > of a
> > > > > > > > >  CoC, either the one proposed by Jeff or that of
> > > > > > > > > W3C
> > > > > > > > > as I
> > > > > > > > > proposed.
> > > > > > > > >  Evidently the idea of being an organiz

Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-07-12 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Your trollish behavior is exactly what a CoC is sensed to eradicate
from professional communities.
Tha's why you exercise such violent opposition.




On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 01:12 -0600, R C wrote:
> because you don't have a point. Other than the Mussolini one.
> 
> On 7/12/21 1:08 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > I don't really want to talk with a troll like you.
> > 
> > Communication terminated.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 00:10 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > On 7/11/21 11:45 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > Nobody stops you,
> > > exactly my point, that's your non-existent necessity
> > > 
> > > 
> > > >however your project will not gain much professional
> > > > attraction.
> > > oh really? you're that clairvoyant? "professional attraction" ??
> > > Haha!!   progress was never accomplished by those that played by
> > > the
> > > rules...   that's why it's called progress  aka rebellion ..  you
> > > have
> > > to ignore the establishment ..   the ones that want you to behave
> > > under
> > > their control ...  as is done/attempted with CoC's...   'nothing'
> > > will
> > > ever be accomplished by CoC's other than a futile attempt to
> > > safeguard
> > > established thinking, or cover your ass for legal
> > > reasons..   CoC's
> > > live
> > > in a world where nothing new is allowed.
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Sun, 2021-07-11 at 22:55 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > > > No it isn't,
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I can start a open source project tomorrow (not today, cause
> > > > > it
> > > > > is
> > > > > getting late), and not have a CoC, and who is going to stop
> > > > > me,
> > > > > if
> > > > > it
> > > > > doesn't have a CoC?
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On 7/11/21 10:46 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > > > Every open source project on Github.com and Sourceforge has
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > Code
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > Conduct, this is a necessary part of every public project.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 14:06 +0930, dva...@internode.on.net
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Valerio wrote: >>
> > > > > > > So it be. Andy, my apologies for trying to support
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > adoption
> > > > > > > of a
> > > > > > > CoC, either the one proposed by Jeff or that of W3C
> > > > > > > as I
> > > > > > > proposed.
> > > > > > > Evidently the idea of being an organized community
> > > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > appeal to
> > > > > > > LinuxCNC users. I don't understand why there is so
> > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > opposition,
> > > > > > > after all it is assumed that an organized community
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > able to
> > > > > > > work
> > > > > > > better and with more personal satisfaction for all
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > participants,
> > > > > > > and instead in this case a terrible conflict has
> > > > > > > broken
> > > > > > > out.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > ___
> > > > > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > > > > ___
> > > > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > > ___
> > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> ___
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[Emc-users] [Fwd: Re: Code of Conduct]

2021-07-12 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
 Forwarded Message 
From: R C 
To: Valerio Bellizzomi 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 00:10:12 -0600
Mailer: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101

Thunderbird/78.11.0

> On 7/11/21 11:45 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > Nobody stops you,
> 
> exactly my point, that's your non-existent necessity
> 
> 
> >   however your project will not gain much professional
> > attraction.
> 
> oh really? you're that clairvoyant? "professional attraction" ??   
> Haha!!   progress was never accomplished by those that played by the 
> rules...   that's why it's called progress  aka rebellion ..  you
> have 
> to ignore the establishment ..   the ones that want you to behave
> under 
> their control ...  as is done/attempted with CoC's...   'nothing'
> will 
> ever be accomplished by CoC's other than a futile attempt to
> safeguard 
> established thinking, or cover your ass for legal reasons..   CoC's
> live 
> in a world where nothing new is allowed.
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Sun, 2021-07-11 at 22:55 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > No it isn't,
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I can start a open source project tomorrow (not today, cause it
> > > is
> > > getting late), and not have a CoC, and who is going to stop me,
> > > if
> > > it
> > > doesn't have a CoC?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 7/11/21 10:46 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > Every open source project on Github.com and Sourceforge has a
> > > > Code
> > > > of
> > > > Conduct, this is a necessary part of every public project.
> > > > 
> > > > Regards
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 14:06 +0930, dva...@internode.on.net
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > Valerio wrote: >>
> > > > >So it be. Andy, my apologies for trying to support the
> > > > > adoption
> > > > > of a
> > > > >CoC, either the one proposed by Jeff or that of W3C as I
> > > > > proposed.
> > > > >Evidently the idea of being an organized community doesn't
> > > > > appeal to
> > > > >LinuxCNC users. I don't understand why there is so much
> > > > > opposition,
> > > > >after all it is assumed that an organized community is
> > > > > able to
> > > > > work
> > > > >better and with more personal satisfaction for all the
> > > > > participants,
> > > > >and instead in this case a terrible conflict has broken
> > > > > out.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > > ___
> > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > 
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-07-11 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Nobody stops you, however your project will not gain much professional
attraction.




On Sun, 2021-07-11 at 22:55 -0600, R C wrote:
> No it isn't,
> 
> 
> I can start a open source project tomorrow (not today, cause it is 
> getting late), and not have a CoC, and who is going to stop me, if
> it 
> doesn't have a CoC?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 7/11/21 10:46 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > Every open source project on Github.com and Sourceforge has a Code
> > of
> > Conduct, this is a necessary part of every public project.
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 14:06 +0930, dva...@internode.on.net wrote:
> > >   
> > > 
> > > Valerio wrote: >>
> > >   So it be. Andy, my apologies for trying to support the adoption
> > > of a
> > >   CoC, either the one proposed by Jeff or that of W3C as I
> > > proposed.
> > >   Evidently the idea of being an organized community doesn't
> > > appeal to
> > >   LinuxCNC users. I don't understand why there is so much
> > > opposition,
> > >   after all it is assumed that an organized community is able to
> > > work
> > >   better and with more personal satisfaction for all the
> > > participants,
> > >   and instead in this case a terrible conflict has broken out.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > 
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-07-11 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Every open source project on Github.com and Sourceforge has a Code of
Conduct, this is a necessary part of every public project.

Regards



On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 14:06 +0930, dva...@internode.on.net wrote:
>  
> 
> Valerio wrote: >>
>  So it be. Andy, my apologies for trying to support the adoption of a
>  CoC, either the one proposed by Jeff or that of W3C as I proposed.
>  Evidently the idea of being an organized community doesn't appeal to
>  LinuxCNC users. I don't understand why there is so much opposition,
>  after all it is assumed that an organized community is able to work
>  better and with more personal satisfaction for all the participants,
>  and instead in this case a terrible conflict has broken out.
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-30 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 23:49 +0100, Les Newell wrote:
> I never thought it needed one either. My reaction when I read the
> CoC 
> was pretty much 'Yeah, that makes sense'  and until the list blew up 
> that's about all I thought about it. Most mailing lists and forums
> have 
> something similar.
> 
> The SheetCam forum shows a CoC as part of the registration process.
> It's 
> the default boilerplate CoC/legal CYA supplied with the forum
> software 
> and no-one has ever queried it. It allows me to rule the forum with
> an 
> iron fist. Oh the feeling of power I get from booting spammers. Once
> I 
> even sent someone a PM, asking them to tone it down .
> It's 
> all part of my secret agenda to take over the world, well the hobby
> and 
> light industrial plasma CAM world at any rate.
> 
> Les

with an industrial plasma it is actually possible, and I have thought
about it many times, to machine a full blown complete Iron Man armor
suit :-)


> On 30/06/2021 21:01, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > Les, to be clear I never thought this group needed a CoC, I always
> > got
> > more or less the help I wanted, on the rare occasions when I needed
> > to
> > ask and the time spent on IRC or on the list was well spent. When
> > Jeff
> > announced the CoC it was a well-received surprise, I don't care at
> > all
> > if it wasn't announced as it was supposed to and voted for by the
> > group, it's still a good initiative that will find my support. Be
> > assured that I will act as the CoC orders if there is one
> > officially
> > approved.
> > 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-30 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Les, to be clear I never thought this group needed a CoC, I always got
more or less the help I wanted, on the rare occasions when I needed to
ask and the time spent on IRC or on the list was well spent. When Jeff
announced the CoC it was a well-received surprise, I don't care at all
if it wasn't announced as it was supposed to and voted for by the
group, it's still a good initiative that will find my support. Be
assured that I will act as the CoC orders if there is one officially
approved.



On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 21:57 +0100, Les Newell wrote:
> Valerio, I agree completely. I also think we should give Jeff a
> break 
> here. LinuxCNC is a loosely organized group and things only really
> get 
> done when someone sees a problem and tries to fix it. Many open
> source 
> projects have a CoC so Jeff put something together, trying to help.
> He 
> now pretty much gets accused of being a dictator.  I'm sure that is
> far 
> from his intention.
> 
> > The only point I can make is that we need a community revision and
> > voting of the CoC.
> 
> Historically when someone comes up with a new feature they announce
> it 
> on the list, there is a bit of discussion about it and in most cases
> it 
> gets added to the source, possibly with some modification. No name 
> calling or political posturing. That is probably closer to how Jeff 
> expected this to go.
> 
> Les
> 
> 
> On 29/06/2021 21:21, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > This is what I think:
> > 
> > The point of a CoC is to tell people that the expected behavior is
> > to
> > act kindly with respect to each other, and the CoC must foresee and
> > provide means to resolve any controvercies that may arise, and do
> > this
> > kindly as much as possible in order to reestablish the community
> > aggregation and mutual respect.
> > 
> > I don't understand why there is so much friction on adopting a CoC,
> > the
> > vast majority of open source projects around the world has a CoC
> > which
> > is created, reviewed and accepted by community members.
> > 
> > The only point I can make is that we need a community revision and
> > voting of the CoC.
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-30 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
it's true, never talk to detractors, they bring you to their level and
beat you for experience.


On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:52 +, Scott Harwell via Emc-users wrote:
>  I hate to point this out, but this response appears to be a
> violation of the CoC.
> Scott(still working on the smiley face thing)
> 
> On Wednesday, June 30, 2021, 10:42:15 AM CDT, Valerio Bellizzomi
>  wrote:  
>  
>  On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 17:30 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 17:21:08 +0200
> >   Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 16:14 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 16:04:47 +0200
> > > >   Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:46 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
> > > > > >   Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > > > > > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the
> > > > > > > > necessity
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > having a
> > > > > > > > code
> > > > > > > > of conduct for this list.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > >   Mark
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > In my organization I have established codes of conduct
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > seems
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is
> > > > > > > concerned
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > being
> > > > > > > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a
> > > > > > > necessary
> > > > > > > thing
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > an organization to be successful in the long term and
> > > > > > > vis-
> > > > > > > a-vis 
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > bigger and broader organizations with which we might
> > > > > > > interact.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > > CoC
> > > > > > either has an agenda or it is better droped.
> > > > > 
> > > > > It is my organization and I do what I want here. Thank you.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I wonder with what right you allow yourself to comment since
> > > > > you do
> > > > > not
> > > > > and will never be part of my organization.
> > > > 
> > > > Oh cool. Then can I assume the CoC nonsens of your organisation
> > > > will
> > > > not be forced on this organisation (or mailinglist or forum or
> > > > whatever you might call it)? Because it is, then there's an
> > > > agenda we
> > > > should talk about in public.
> > > > 
> > > > Nik
> > > 
> > > 1) 
> > > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/72-official-code-of-ethics-and-professional-conduct
> > > 
> > > 2) 
> > > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
> > > 
> > > 3) 
> > > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/185-why-choose-selroc-systems
> > 
> > So your forum has 139 postings in total, but several pages CoC. Of
> > course the CoC did attract a lot of people to participate, didn't
> > it?
> > 
> > Nik
> 
> You can't understand what you read, that defect is called functional
> illiteracy.
> 
> 
> On 
> https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
>  :
> 
> "This is sensed to be a small professional quality forum. The posts
> written here should always follow the rules written here 
> https://www.selroc.systems/forum/gen...sional-conduct;
> 
> 
> i.e. This means I admit to the forum only people I know and trust.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-30 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 17:30 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 17:21:08 +0200
>  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 16:14 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 16:04:47 +0200
> > >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:46 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
> > > > >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > > > > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > having a
> > > > > > > code
> > > > > > > of conduct for this list.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >  Mark
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > In my organization I have established codes of conduct and
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > seems
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > being
> > > > > > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a
> > > > > > necessary
> > > > > > thing
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-
> > > > > > a-vis 
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > bigger and broader organizations with which we might
> > > > > > interact.
> > > > > 
> > > > > If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop
> > > > > it.
> > > > > CoC
> > > > > either has an agenda or it is better droped.
> > > > 
> > > > It is my organization and I do what I want here. Thank you.
> > > > 
> > > > I wonder with what right you allow yourself to comment since
> > > > you do
> > > > not
> > > > and will never be part of my organization.
> > > 
> > > Oh cool. Then can I assume the CoC nonsens of your organisation
> > > will
> > > not be forced on this organisation (or mailinglist or forum or
> > > whatever you might call it)? Because it is, then there's an
> > > agenda we
> > > should talk about in public.
> > > 
> > > Nik
> > 
> > 1) 
> > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/72-official-code-of-ethics-and-professional-conduct
> > 
> > 2) 
> > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
> > 
> > 3) 
> > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/185-why-choose-selroc-systems
> 
> So your forum has 139 postings in total, but several pages CoC. Of
> course the CoC did attract a lot of people to participate, didn't it?
> 
> Nik


You can't understand what you read, that defect is called functional
illiteracy.


On 
https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
 :

"This is sensed to be a small professional quality forum. The posts
written here should always follow the rules written here 
https://www.selroc.systems/forum/gen...sional-conduct;


i.e. This means I admit to the forum only people I know and trust.





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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-30 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 16:14 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 16:04:47 +0200
>  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:46 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
> > >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of
> > > > > having a
> > > > > code
> > > > > of conduct for this list.
> > > > > 
> > > > >  Mark
> > > > 
> > > > In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it
> > > > seems
> > > > to
> > > > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned
> > > > about
> > > > being
> > > > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary
> > > > thing
> > > > for
> > > > an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis 
> > > > of
> > > > bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.
> > > 
> > > If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop it.
> > > CoC
> > > either has an agenda or it is better droped.
> > 
> > It is my organization and I do what I want here. Thank you.
> > 
> > I wonder with what right you allow yourself to comment since you do
> > not
> > and will never be part of my organization.
> 
> Oh cool. Then can I assume the CoC nonsens of your organisation will
> not be forced on this organisation (or mailinglist or forum or
> whatever you might call it)? Because it is, then there's an agenda we
> should talk about in public.
> 
> Nik


1) 
https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/72-official-code-of-ethics-and-professional-conduct

2) 
https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum

3) 
https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/185-why-choose-selroc-systems






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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-30 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:58 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 9:44 AM Valerio Bellizzomi <
> vale...@selnet.org>
> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > 
> > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of
> > > having a
> > > code
> > > of conduct for this list.
> > > 
> > >  Mark
> > 
> > In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it seems
> > to
> > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned about
> > being
> > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary thing
> > for
> > an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis of
> > bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> 
> That's may all be well and good for your organization.  That doesn't
> mean
> it translates easily or well to other organizations like this
> one.  This
> group tends to be more oriented to machining, machine control and
> programming.  In all the years I've been on this list, I've never
> seen
> anyone publicly harass anyone, though I may have missed a post or two
> over
> those years that did contain something like that.  Pretty much every
> post I
> see on this list is either someone asking a question or requesting
> help,
> and a whole lot of people jumping in to try and fix the problem or
> help the
> OP work their way through the issue.  This group seems to be based on
> giving and receiving help for all the issues and problems that pop
> up.
> 
> Again the original question I asked needs to be answered.  Why is it
> really
> necessary to institute a Code of Conduct on a group that's already
> well
> behaved?  Legal Reasons?  Someone feels that we need a CoC just
> because?
> What is the impetus for having this imposed?  And why does the CoC
> that's
> been written have to include all the political nonsense?
> 
> Mark

here in my organization we are committed to software development and
computational research, this does not exempt us from the necessity of
codes vis-a-vis of other organizations which have one and the public
administration which requires organizations to have one.
You can live without a CoC for a small project, but as the project
grows and start interacting with many other parties, it becomes
necessary to be well organized.




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-30 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:46 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
>  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of
> > > having a
> > > code
> > > of conduct for this list.
> > > 
> > >  Mark
> > 
> > In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it seems
> > to
> > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned about
> > being
> > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary thing
> > for
> > an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis of
> > bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.
> 
> If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop it. CoC
> either has an agenda or it is better droped.

It is my organization and I do what I want here. Thank you.

I wonder with what right you allow yourself to comment since you do not
and will never be part of my organization.





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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-30 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 9:26 AM Jeff Epler 
> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 03:28:11PM -0700, David Bagby wrote:
> > > As far as I know, a CoC for LinuxCNC was NOT "created, reviewed
> > > and
> > accepted
> > > by community members".  It was just simply announced as a fait
> > > accomli.
> > > 
> > > Thus it should not be a surprise that there is was no consensus
> > > re its
> > > contents within the community, or that there appears to be little
> > > to zero
> > > by-in from the members of the community.  It's natural for people
> > > see
> > > question anything that suddenly get imposed on them.
> > 
> > It's 100% accurate that there I did not initiate discussion on this
> > mailing lists of the code of conduct itself.
> > 
> > I did initiate discussion in these ways:
> > 
> >  - Publicly by creating a Pull Request on github with the full
> > proposed
> > text
> >https://github.com/LinuxCNC/wlo/pull/14
> > 
> >  - Publicly on the IRC channel #emc-developers by linking to the
> > pull
> > request
> > 
> >  - Privately with several of the people who act as moderators of
> > our
> >various ways of communicating, such as IRC and Matrix
> > 
> > No public comment was made on the pull request, which was open for
> > about
> > a week.  The reaction on IRC ranged from agreement to disinterest.
> > 
> > Several community members articulated in this thread why the item
> > against "excessive helping" was undesirable. That item has been
> > removed.
> > Thank you to those who participated in that portion of this
> > discussion.
> > 
> > Jeff
> > 
> 
> We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of having a
> code
> of conduct for this list.
> 
>  Mark

In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it seems to
be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned about being
controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary thing for
an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis of
bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.

Regards




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-30 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 08:23 -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 03:28:11PM -0700, David Bagby wrote:
> > As far as I know, a CoC for LinuxCNC was NOT "created, reviewed and
> > accepted
> > by community members".  It was just simply announced as a fait
> > accomli.
> > 
> > Thus it should not be a surprise that there is was no consensus re
> > its
> > contents within the community, or that there appears to be little
> > to zero
> > by-in from the members of the community.  It's natural for people
> > see
> > question anything that suddenly get imposed on them.
> 
> It's 100% accurate that there I did not initiate discussion on this
> mailing lists of the code of conduct itself.
> 
> I did initiate discussion in these ways:
> 
>  - Publicly by creating a Pull Request on github with the full
> proposed text
>https://github.com/LinuxCNC/wlo/pull/14
> 
>  - Publicly on the IRC channel #emc-developers by linking to the pull
> request

If I can make a couple of points, missing is the emc-users channel, and
most people like me isn't constantly watching channels and pull
requests, so the CoC was a surprise to me, a welcome one but still a
surprise.


>  - Privately with several of the people who act as moderators of our
>various ways of communicating, such as IRC and Matrix
> 
> No public comment was made on the pull request, which was open for
> about
> a week.  The reaction on IRC ranged from agreement to disinterest.
> 
> Several community members articulated in this thread why the item
> against "excessive helping" was undesirable. That item has been
> removed.
> Thank you to those who participated in that portion of this
> discussion.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-30 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 11:21 +0100, Les Newell wrote:
> > And that's the key point Les.  There was no prior discussion.  As
> > was 
> > pointed out in another post, this CoC was created and implemented
> > with 
> > no input from the group at large. 
> 
> Um, I don't know if you noticed but we are having that discussion
> right 
> now. The CoC is not set in stone. It's just text that can be easily 
> edited.  Jeff introduced it. At that point there should have been
> some 
> rational discussion and any corrections made as needed. Instead
> there 
> was a completely unwarranted explosion of vitriol and paranoia. Jeff
> the 
> dictator is impinging on our FREEDOM! The CoC boils down to 'be nice
> and 
> treat people with respect'. Really, you are upset because you don't
> want 
> to be nice and others to be respectful to you? Even if you are,
> what's 
> wrong with just asking for a change to the text instead of shouting 
> about THE ESTABLISHMENT trying to CONTROL you. This are just a group
> of 
> like minded individuals, not some oppressive government.
> 
> Could Jeff have worded his announcement better? In hindsight yes but 
> remember the only way anything gets done around here is if someone 
> volunteers to do it. How many of the people here screaming about
> their 
> rights have actually bothered to contribute to maintenance of the
> source 
> code and the website? If you don't like something how about fixing
> it, 
> rather than getting upset?
> 
> Les


This is talking! this is constructive discussion, thank you, I
appreciate the good will to discuss and overcome prejudices, thinking
that there is "the establishment trying to control you" sounds a good
bit like conspiracy theory.





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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
The CoC topic has been over a couple of messages ago for me, but you
insist in stating you opinion out loud like it was the only one, I
already apologised for this.
I didn't find your CoC drama nice, and I think I will accurately avoid
writing here for a long long time, I dislike conflicts of all kinds, I
would have appreciated more if at least you had been looking for a
constructive conversation instead of making a conflict out of it.

That said I am off to start building a big 3D printer, probably I will
post pictures when its done.

Regards


On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 17:30 -0600, R C wrote:
> On 6/29/21 5:17 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 17:07 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > On 6/29/21 4:54 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > Could you please try to avoid reading too literally and instead
> > > > try
> > > > to
> > > > understand the broad sense of what I write?
> > > I can try, but I am not good at reading minds, it's not my
> > > problem
> > > you
> > > didn't say what you meant.
> > 
> > I said exactly what I meant, but for some (unknow to me) reason you
> > don't interpret it as I do:
> That's because your comparison is/was wrong.
> > I presume that good organization is
> > necessary to avoid the chaos that can sometimes arise in human
> > interactions.
> 
> No it isn't, chaos arises because of people disagreeing, hence what
> you 
> call good organization isn't necessarily interpreted as good by
> others 
> and creates chaos.
> 
> 
> >   The fact that LinuxCNC succeeded without organization is
> > pure luck in my opinion, in general human communities organize
> > themselves to avoid being overwhelmed by chaos and to facilitate
> > the
> > resolution of internal conflicts.
> 
> No I think they succeeded, because these "guys" doing this are very
> good 
> at what they are doing, are knowledgeable, and like doing this for 
> others to enjoy this software (which I definitely do).
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I am done with this conversation..   I go with the guy with
> the 
> "be kind sign" email,  I think that is what we should have as a CoC
> (and 
> I didn't see inclusive etc etc in the definition of 'kind')
> 
> 
> over and out.
> 
> > 
> > > Also, I changed my mind  ..
> > > 
> > > hey all, can we still have that CoC? with that one rule in it
> > > that
> > > said
> > > something about not telling others what to do, or something like
> > > that.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 16:39 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > > > On 6/29/21 4:19 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > > > On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 16:29 -0500, Bari wrote:
> > > > > > > On 6/29/21 4:12 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > again, eccept for an evasive and dumb answer, there
> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > still
> > > > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > why...
> > > > > > > > > let me guess,  you don't really have one other then a
> > > > > > > > > controlling
> > > > > > > > > vague one.
> > > > > > > > The why is evident, we don't live in a ruleless world,
> > > > > > > > even
> > > > > > > > nature
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > animal groups have their survival rules.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > It is a question of survival of the community as a
> > > > > > > > cohesive
> > > > > > > > group.
> > > > > > > I thought that LCNC is an open source software project.
> > > > > > > What
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > dramatic talk of animal survival?
> > > > > > as humans we are evoluted animals and human collectivity
> > > > > > follows
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > same survival rules. That is only for comparison.
> > > > > those are not rules, those are laws deducted from what is
> > > > > observed,
> > > > > same/similar to  physical laws (like the law of gravity).
> > > > > 
> > > > > Animals don't have rules on how to behave, there might be
> &g

Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 17:07 -0600, R C wrote:
> On 6/29/21 4:54 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > Could you please try to avoid reading too literally and instead try
> > to
> > understand the broad sense of what I write?
> 
> I can try, but I am not good at reading minds, it's not my problem
> you 
> didn't say what you meant.


I said exactly what I meant, but for some (unknow to me) reason you
don't interpret it as I do: I presume that good organization is
necessary to avoid the chaos that can sometimes arise in human
interactions. The fact that LinuxCNC succeeded without organization is
pure luck in my opinion, in general human communities organize
themselves to avoid being overwhelmed by chaos and to facilitate the
resolution of internal conflicts.


> 
> Also, I changed my mind  ..
> 
> hey all, can we still have that CoC? with that one rule in it that
> said 
> something about not telling others what to do, or something like
> that.
> 
> 
> > On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 16:39 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > On 6/29/21 4:19 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 16:29 -0500, Bari wrote:
> > > > > On 6/29/21 4:12 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > again, eccept for an evasive and dumb answer, there is
> > > > > > > still
> > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > why...
> > > > > > > let me guess,  you don't really have one other then a
> > > > > > > controlling
> > > > > > > vague one.
> > > > > > The why is evident, we don't live in a ruleless world, even
> > > > > > nature
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > animal groups have their survival rules.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > It is a question of survival of the community as a cohesive
> > > > > > group.
> > > > > I thought that LCNC is an open source software project. What
> > > > > is
> > > > > this
> > > > > dramatic talk of animal survival?
> > > > as humans we are evoluted animals and human collectivity
> > > > follows
> > > > the
> > > > same survival rules. That is only for comparison.
> > > those are not rules, those are laws deducted from what is
> > > observed,
> > > same/similar to  physical laws (like the law of gravity).
> > > 
> > > Animals don't have rules on how to behave, there might be some
> > > very
> > > primal ones based on picking order, power.
> > > 
> > > for example, a coyote doesn't give a damn that there is a rule
> > > not
> > > to
> > > attack poodles, the only reason for it not to attack the poodle
> > > is if
> > > it
> > > were more dangerous for the coyote then for the poodle.
> > > 
> > > Evolution does have NOTHING to do with rules, it is a pattern, "a
> > > scientific law" that  is assumed and proven because of
> > > observations.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Also, you cannot compare something, with something else that is
> > > false
> > > or
> > > doesn't make sense,  that is nonsense, a moot point in any
> > > argument.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > ___
> > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > 
> > ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Could you please try to avoid reading too literally and instead try to
understand the broad sense of what I write?


On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 16:39 -0600, R C wrote:
> On 6/29/21 4:19 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 16:29 -0500, Bari wrote:
> > > On 6/29/21 4:12 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > again, eccept for an evasive and dumb answer, there is still
> > > > > no
> > > > > why...
> > > > > let me guess,  you don't really have one other then a
> > > > > controlling
> > > > > vague one.
> > > > The why is evident, we don't live in a ruleless world, even
> > > > nature
> > > > and
> > > > animal groups have their survival rules.
> > > > 
> > > > It is a question of survival of the community as a cohesive
> > > > group.
> > > I thought that LCNC is an open source software project. What is
> > > this
> > > dramatic talk of animal survival?
> > as humans we are evoluted animals and human collectivity follows
> > the
> > same survival rules. That is only for comparison.
> 
> those are not rules, those are laws deducted from what is observed,  
> same/similar to  physical laws (like the law of gravity).
> 
> Animals don't have rules on how to behave, there might be some very 
> primal ones based on picking order, power.
> 
> for example, a coyote doesn't give a damn that there is a rule not
> to 
> attack poodles, the only reason for it not to attack the poodle is if
> it 
> were more dangerous for the coyote then for the poodle.
> 
> Evolution does have NOTHING to do with rules, it is a pattern, "a 
> scientific law" that  is assumed and proven because of observations.
> 
> 
> Also, you cannot compare something, with something else that is false
> or 
> doesn't make sense,  that is nonsense, a moot point in any argument.
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
So it be. Andy, my apologies for trying to support the adoption of a
CoC, either the one proposed by Jeff or that of W3C as I proposed.
Evidently the idea of being an organized community doesn't appeal to
LinuxCNC users. I don't understand why there is so much opposition,
after all it is assumed that an organized community is able to work
better and with more personal satisfaction for all the participants,
and instead in this case a terrible conflict has broken out.

Regards



On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 23:01 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> There seems to be a serious misunderstanding developing here about
> how
> LinuxCNC is organised.
> 
> It isn't.
> 
> Really not at all.
> 
> All LinuxCNC has is a web page, a github, a buildbot, a code-base and
> a bunch of contributors.
> 
> Some contributors have admin rights on the web server, and some have
> push rights on the github. (I have both of these things) But that
> doesn't make me part of "The management" or mean that I have some
> agenda.
> And the same is true of Jeff. He is a supremely valuable contributor
> to the LinuxCNC code-base (I think that he has written more lines of
> code than almost any other contributor[1])  but I very much doubt
> that
> he has any particular political agenda to push.
> (If I had to guess, and it would be a guess, because we haven't
> discussed it,  it would be that Jeff is worried about trouble looming
> if we don't have a CoC).
> 
> Don't go imagining that there are Machiavellian intrigues going on in
> back-channels. We are not that organised.
> 
> Nobody is in charge, there is no committee, there is no board of
> directors. Things only get done if one person decides that something
> should be done, and then does it.
> 
> [1] 
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/graphs/contributors?from=2003-10-05=2021-06-29=a
> 



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 16:29 -0500, Bari wrote:
> On 6/29/21 4:12 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > > again, eccept for an evasive and dumb answer, there is still no
> > > why...
> > > let me guess,  you don't really have one other then a controlling
> > > vague one.
> > The why is evident, we don't live in a ruleless world, even nature
> > and
> > animal groups have their survival rules.
> > 
> > It is a question of survival of the community as a cohesive group.
> I thought that LCNC is an open source software project. What is this 
> dramatic talk of animal survival?

as humans we are evoluted animals and human collectivity follows the
same survival rules. That is only for comparison.




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 15:17 -0600, R C wrote:
> On 6/29/21 3:07 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 15:45 -0500, Bari wrote:
> > > On 6/29/21 3:21 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 13:42 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > > > On 6/29/21 11:09 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > > > The whole purpose of a CoC is telling people how to behave
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > respect
> > > > > > to each other. Basically you are free to think as you will
> > > > > > provided
> > > > > > that you act as the CoC says.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > 
> > > > > and that is why it is inappropriate, and useless, there is no
> > > > > way
> > > > > you
> > > > > can predict how/what  offends people (and nowadays. Creating
> > > > > rules
> > > > > for
> > > > > what/how/when and to whom what can be said, well, there are
> > > > > countries
> > > > > where you can happily follow those rules.
> > > > This is what I think:
> > > > 
> > > > The point of a CoC is to tell people that the expected behavior
> > > > is
> > > > to
> > > > act kindly with respect to each other, and the CoC must foresee
> > > > and
> > > > provide means to resolve any controvercies that may arise, and
> > > > do
> > > > this
> > > > kindly as much as possible in order to reestablish the
> > > > community
> > > > aggregation and mutual respect.
> > > > 
> > > > I don't understand why there is so much friction on adopting a
> > > > CoC,
> > > > the
> > > > vast majority of open source projects around the world has a
> > > > CoC
> > > > which
> > > > is created, reviewed and accepted by community members.
> > > > 
> > > > The only point I can make is that we need a community revision
> > > > and
> > > > voting of the CoC.
> > > > 
> > > > Regards
> > > > 
> > > The problem is with what is perceived as acceptable and by whom.
> > > Different people perceive things differently based on their
> > > background,
> > > experiences, education, parenting, intelligence, age,
> > > environment,
> > > country they live in, etc. etc.
> > > 
> > > Another thing to consider is what is LinuxCNC? What is the board
> > > of
> > > directors? is this a democracy or a dictatorship or something
> > > else?
> > 
> > It is incredible that after so many years those questions are still
> > open. They should have been resolved many years ago, when the
> > community
> > was born.
> > 
> > > Who
> > > decides which persons that this applies to? Users, persons in
> > > IRC,
> > > developers that wish to have their code included in the main
> > > distribution, forum posters, etc who is this for and what is the
> > > real
> > > reason for this?
> > > 
> > > It is a slippery slope.
> > Usually the leadership is voted and elected by members, and the CoC
> > should be applied to *everything* involving the community, so
> > Users,
> > persons in IRC, developers that wish to have their code included in
> > the
> > main distribution, forum posters, visitors, external experts, and
> > this
> > is not an exhaustive list.
> 
> You made a spelling mistake,  it is not spelled "leadership",  it 
> typically is spelled "corrupt politicians"  or "business major with
> a 
> bloated ego"
> 
> 
> If it was leadership,  you'd go do something ..  and the rest would
> be 
> following behind you,  which doesn't seem to be the case.



But I do not see any corrupted politician or business major with a
bloated ego in the LinuxCNC community.

Can I ask you to avoid writing to me privately please?






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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 15:02 -0600, R C wrote:
> On 6/29/21 2:53 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 14:32 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > On 6/29/21 2:21 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 13:42 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > > > On 6/29/21 11:09 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > > > The whole purpose of a CoC is telling people how to behave
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > respect
> > > > > > to each other. Basically you are free to think as you will
> > > > > > provided
> > > > > > that you act as the CoC says.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > 
> > > > > and that is why it is inappropriate, and useless, there is no
> > > > > way
> > > > > you
> > > > > can predict how/what  offends people (and nowadays. Creating
> > > > > rules
> > > > > for
> > > > > what/how/when and to whom what can be said, well, there are
> > > > > countries
> > > > > where you can happily follow those rules.
> > > > This is what I think:
> > > > 
> > > > The point of a CoC is to tell people that the expected behavior
> > > > is
> > > > to
> > > > act kindly with respect to each other, and the CoC must foresee
> > > > and
> > > > provide means to resolve any controvercies that may arise, and
> > > > do
> > > > this
> > > > kindly as much as possible in order to reestablish the
> > > > community
> > > > aggregation and mutual respect.
> > > right, most normal/decent people know that is expected behavior,
> > > so
> > > it
> > > is pointless to re-iterate, and mosyly turns into something
> > > manipulative.
> > > 
> > > > I don't understand why there is so much friction on adopting a
> > > > CoC,
> > > > the
> > > > vast majority of open source projects around the world has a
> > > > CoC
> > > > which
> > > > is created, reviewed and accepted by community members.
> > > Because it is pointless.  There still has not been given an
> > > urgent
> > > reason for doing this kinda left-ish thing.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I make a point of that all the time, also at work, where they
> > > have
> > > several of these things.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Reason?  Oh an upper management person  once said it was needed
> > > "because
> > > everyone deserves to be respected, and by the end of the day can
> > > go
> > > home
> > > being happy they accomplished something"
> > > 
> > > I questioned him "Why?"  ..  except for a lot of "uh"-s no real
> > > answer.
> > > Of course not,  because there are no reasons to do that..  it's
> > > management porn.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > The only point I can make is that we need a community revision
> > > > and
> > > > voting of the CoC.
> > > why?  seriously, make a pressing point of  why.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Regards
> > > > 
> > > Ron
> > 
> > I cannot comment on what you do at work. However this is how things
> > work in a human society, we need to state very clearly what are the
> > leadership actions to do in case controvercies need to be resolved,
> > and
> > state what is expected behavior and unacceptable behavior from
> > community members, so that everybody knows that staying in the
> > community involves some kind of mental and behavioral engagement.
> > This
> > is necessary to avoid irrimediable conflicts that can lead to
> > destruction of the community.
> > 
> > I'm happy to see that LinuxCNC community has survived so long
> > without a
> > CoC. That said every community needs a CoC mostly as an assurance
> > to
> > external people that they can join the community without fear.
> 
> You still didn't say why,  except for a bunch of blabla leadership,  
> sounds like it has nothing to do  with neither linux, nor CNC.
> 
> 
> again, eccept for an evasive and dumb answer, there is still no
> why...   
> let me guess,  you don't really have one other then a controlling
> vague one.

The why is evident, we don't live in a ruleless world, even nature and
animal groups have their survival rules.

It is a question of survival of the community as a cohesive group.





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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 15:45 -0500, Bari wrote:
> On 6/29/21 3:21 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 13:42 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > On 6/29/21 11:09 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > The whole purpose of a CoC is telling people how to behave with
> > > > respect
> > > > to each other. Basically you are free to think as you will
> > > > provided
> > > > that you act as the CoC says.
> > > > 
> > > > Regards
> > > > 
> > > and that is why it is inappropriate, and useless, there is no way
> > > you
> > > can predict how/what  offends people (and nowadays. Creating
> > > rules
> > > for
> > > what/how/when and to whom what can be said, well, there are
> > > countries
> > > where you can happily follow those rules.
> > 
> > This is what I think:
> > 
> > The point of a CoC is to tell people that the expected behavior is
> > to
> > act kindly with respect to each other, and the CoC must foresee and
> > provide means to resolve any controvercies that may arise, and do
> > this
> > kindly as much as possible in order to reestablish the community
> > aggregation and mutual respect.
> > 
> > I don't understand why there is so much friction on adopting a CoC,
> > the
> > vast majority of open source projects around the world has a CoC
> > which
> > is created, reviewed and accepted by community members.
> > 
> > The only point I can make is that we need a community revision and
> > voting of the CoC.
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> The problem is with what is perceived as acceptable and by whom. 
> Different people perceive things differently based on their
> background, 
> experiences, education, parenting, intelligence, age, environment, 
> country they live in, etc. etc.
> 
> Another thing to consider is what is LinuxCNC? What is the board of 
> directors? is this a democracy or a dictatorship or something else? 


It is incredible that after so many years those questions are still
open. They should have been resolved many years ago, when the community
was born.

> Who 
> decides which persons that this applies to? Users, persons in IRC, 
> developers that wish to have their code included in the main 
> distribution, forum posters, etc who is this for and what is the
> real 
> reason for this?
> 
> It is a slippery slope.

Usually the leadership is voted and elected by members, and the CoC
should be applied to *everything* involving the community, so Users,
persons in IRC, developers that wish to have their code included in the
main distribution, forum posters, visitors, external experts, and this
is not an exhaustive list.





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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 15:45 -0500, Bari wrote:
> On 6/29/21 3:21 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 13:42 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > On 6/29/21 11:09 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > The whole purpose of a CoC is telling people how to behave with
> > > > respect
> > > > to each other. Basically you are free to think as you will
> > > > provided
> > > > that you act as the CoC says.
> > > > 
> > > > Regards
> > > > 
> > > and that is why it is inappropriate, and useless, there is no way
> > > you
> > > can predict how/what  offends people (and nowadays. Creating
> > > rules
> > > for
> > > what/how/when and to whom what can be said, well, there are
> > > countries
> > > where you can happily follow those rules.
> > 
> > This is what I think:
> > 
> > The point of a CoC is to tell people that the expected behavior is
> > to
> > act kindly with respect to each other, and the CoC must foresee and
> > provide means to resolve any controvercies that may arise, and do
> > this
> > kindly as much as possible in order to reestablish the community
> > aggregation and mutual respect.
> > 
> > I don't understand why there is so much friction on adopting a CoC,
> > the
> > vast majority of open source projects around the world has a CoC
> > which
> > is created, reviewed and accepted by community members.
> > 
> > The only point I can make is that we need a community revision and
> > voting of the CoC.
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> The problem is with what is perceived as acceptable and by whom. 
> Different people perceive things differently based on their
> background, 
> experiences, education, parenting, intelligence, age, environment, 
> country they live in, etc. etc.
> 
> Another thing to consider is what is LinuxCNC? What is the board of 
> directors? is this a democracy or a dictatorship or something else?
> Who 
> decides which persons that this applies to? Users, persons in IRC, 
> developers that wish to have their code included in the main 
> distribution, forum posters, etc who is this for and what is the
> real 
> reason for this?
> 
> It is a slippery slope.


That is why I suggested the W3C Code of Ethics and Professional
Conduct. W3C is a worldwide consortium, thus you can be assured that
the definition of "acceptable" is a definition which is shared
worldwide.





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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 14:32 -0600, R C wrote:
> On 6/29/21 2:21 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 13:42 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > On 6/29/21 11:09 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > The whole purpose of a CoC is telling people how to behave with
> > > > respect
> > > > to each other. Basically you are free to think as you will
> > > > provided
> > > > that you act as the CoC says.
> > > > 
> > > > Regards
> > > > 
> > > and that is why it is inappropriate, and useless, there is no way
> > > you
> > > can predict how/what  offends people (and nowadays. Creating
> > > rules
> > > for
> > > what/how/when and to whom what can be said, well, there are
> > > countries
> > > where you can happily follow those rules.
> > 
> > This is what I think:
> > 
> > The point of a CoC is to tell people that the expected behavior is
> > to
> > act kindly with respect to each other, and the CoC must foresee and
> > provide means to resolve any controvercies that may arise, and do
> > this
> > kindly as much as possible in order to reestablish the community
> > aggregation and mutual respect.
> 
> right, most normal/decent people know that is expected behavior, so
> it 
> is pointless to re-iterate, and mosyly turns into something
> manipulative.
> 
> > I don't understand why there is so much friction on adopting a CoC,
> > the
> > vast majority of open source projects around the world has a CoC
> > which
> > is created, reviewed and accepted by community members.
> 
> Because it is pointless.  There still has not been given an urgent 
> reason for doing this kinda left-ish thing.
> 
> 
> I make a point of that all the time, also at work, where they have 
> several of these things.
> 
> 
> Reason?  Oh an upper management person  once said it was needed
> "because 
> everyone deserves to be respected, and by the end of the day can go
> home 
> being happy they accomplished something"
> 
> I questioned him "Why?"  ..  except for a lot of "uh"-s no real
> answer.  
> Of course not,  because there are no reasons to do that..  it's 
> management porn.
> 
> 
> > The only point I can make is that we need a community revision and
> > voting of the CoC.
> 
> why?  seriously, make a pressing point of  why.
> 
> 
> > Regards
> > 
> Ron


I cannot comment on what you do at work. However this is how things
work in a human society, we need to state very clearly what are the
leadership actions to do in case controvercies need to be resolved, and
state what is expected behavior and unacceptable behavior from
community members, so that everybody knows that staying in the
community involves some kind of mental and behavioral engagement. This
is necessary to avoid irrimediable conflicts that can lead to
destruction of the community.

I'm happy to see that LinuxCNC community has survived so long without a
CoC. That said every community needs a CoC mostly as an assurance to
external people that they can join the community without fear.

Regards




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 13:42 -0600, R C wrote:
> On 6/29/21 11:09 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > The whole purpose of a CoC is telling people how to behave with
> > respect
> > to each other. Basically you are free to think as you will provided
> > that you act as the CoC says.
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> and that is why it is inappropriate, and useless, there is no way
> you 
> can predict how/what  offends people (and nowadays. Creating rules
> for  
> what/how/when and to whom what can be said, well, there are
> countries 
> where you can happily follow those rules.


This is what I think:

The point of a CoC is to tell people that the expected behavior is to
act kindly with respect to each other, and the CoC must foresee and
provide means to resolve any controvercies that may arise, and do this
kindly as much as possible in order to reestablish the community
aggregation and mutual respect.

I don't understand why there is so much friction on adopting a CoC, the
vast majority of open source projects around the world has a CoC which
is created, reviewed and accepted by community members.

The only point I can make is that we need a community revision and
voting of the CoC.

Regards




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 14:20 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 1:12 PM Valerio Bellizzomi <
> vale...@selnet.org>
> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 11:40 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > Adding all the rest of the nonsense is telling people what and
> > > how to
> > > think.
> > > 
> > > Mark
> > 
> > The whole purpose of a CoC is telling people how to behave with
> > respect
> > to each other. Basically you are free to think as you will provided
> > that you act as the CoC says.
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> 
> I'm not seeing that at all.  I'm seeing a brute force attempt at
> telling us
> how we are to act and think.
> 
> Mark

Sorry but that's ridiculous, nobody can tell us how to think, it is our
natural freedom to think as we will.
But once we are in a community, we must behave kindly to each other,
failing that the community is at risk of disgregation.





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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 11:40 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> Adding all the rest of the nonsense is telling people what and how to
> think.
> 
> Mark

The whole purpose of a CoC is telling people how to behave with respect
to each other. Basically you are free to think as you will provided
that you act as the CoC says.

Regards




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 08:57 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 8:46 AM Valerio Bellizzomi <
> vale...@selnet.org>
> wrote:
> 
> > In my organization, which also involes machining, it is a question
> > of
> > transparency of project management, statement of compliance with
> > management standards, and commitment to a positive work place. It
> > is
> > also a means to resolve controvercies in-house without resorting to
> > external costly experts.
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> 
> Apples and oranges.

they're both fruits, you can mix them in a very good tasting smoothie
:-)


>   The only controversies I've ever seen on this list in
> the last 20 or 30 years have been on a way to do things better, or
> the
> direction some folks would like to see this software go.  The beauty
> of
> being behind a keyboard is that it tends to keep the in-person
> conflicts to
> a very small minimum.
> 
> As I said in another post, just apply the Golden Rule.  Short, to the
> point
> and says everything that code should say in one sentence without the
> baggage.
> 
> Mark


but to be clear, I'm not advocating that we must adopt this CoC, only
suggesting one example that seems adopted worldwide.





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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 07:47 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 6:51 AM Valerio Bellizzomi <
> vale...@selnet.org>
> wrote:
> 
> > I think this CoC leaves a lot to be desired. But can I suggest a
> > very
> > good one, one which I adopted in my own organization?
> > 
> > https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/
> > 
> > 
> > Regards.
> > 
> 
> My only question is why in the heck is this even necessary?  We're
> all in
> this because we share the common bonds of machining, LinuxCNC, and
> other
> related things that go along with.
> 
> The last thing I expect to see on a technical mailing list is to have
> someone's sexual preferences shoved down my throat.  I don't really
> care
> what two consenting adults do in their own home, but what exactly in
> the
> world do a person's sexual preferences have to do with LinuxCNC and
> machining?  The metal and machines don't care one way or another.
> 
> How about we  just adopt the Golden Rule - do unto others as you
> would have
> them do unto you. That seems to have worked well for many thousands
> of
> years.  Leave the sexual preference bullcrap somewhere else where
> people
> wish to discuss that kind of thing.
> 
> Mark


In my organization, which also involes machining, it is a question of
transparency of project management, statement of compliance with
management standards, and commitment to a positive work place. It is
also a means to resolve controvercies in-house without resorting to
external costly experts.

Regards




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 09:10 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jun 2021 at 04:14, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> > At the risk of being banned I'd suggest that this one point is a
> > bit extreme:
> > 
> > "Excessive or unwelcome helping; answering outside the scope of the
> > question asked"
> 
> It does seem a little odd. I suspect it is aimed at some manner of
> behaviour that I have not (knowingly) seen on our forums.
> It is a bit of a concern to think that I could be accused of breaking
> the CoC for being too helpful.
> 
> I get the feeling that this CoC was written for a somewhat different
> demographic than LinuxCNC users tend to be. (By which I am mainly
> referring to age) .
> 


I think this CoC leaves a lot to be desired. But can I suggest a very
good one, one which I adopted in my own organization?

https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/


Regards.




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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC in use on 5axis

2021-06-21 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Sun, 2021-06-20 at 19:33 +, Tomaz T. wrote:
> Recent project done on my DIY 5-axis, controlled by LinuxCNC, just to
> encourage if anyone taking similar path:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TobQG2T7YV4
> 
> Regards!


It is a very nice machine.

Regards.




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Re: [Emc-users] Freenode Shenagins

2021-05-22 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Sat, 2021-05-22 at 15:48 +0200, Jérémie Tarot wrote:
> Le sam. 22 mai 2021 à 15:07, Valerio Bellizzomi 
> a
> écrit :
> 
> > On Sat, 2021-05-22 at 12:49 +0200, Jérémie Tarot wrote:
> > > For as much as I genuinely appreciate your offer, I believe it'd
> > > be
> > > better
> > > to migrate lcnc irc channel on a community managed network.
> > 
> > To which community do you refer?
> > 
> > AFAIK I am quite silent but part of the LinuxCNC community :-)
> > 
> 
> You surely are mate!
> Sorry if my badly chosen words suggested anything else 
> 
> I just meant that a single admin infrastructure may not be the safer
> choice
> for our growing community...
> 
> Nevertheless, I'd surely welcome lcnc having it's own irc, discord
> and
> matrix servers with built-in bridges... If a community manager can
> gather
> at least a pair of admins around her to keep the engines running.
> 
> Anyway, thanks again


can I set up a link between my server and the official IRC server ?





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Re: [Emc-users] Freenode Shenagins

2021-05-22 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Sat, 2021-05-22 at 12:49 +0200, Jérémie Tarot wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Le sam. 22 mai 2021 à 09:28, Valerio Bellizzomi 
> a
> écrit :
> 
> > On Thu, 2021-05-20 at 15:12 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> > > More on this:
> > > 
> > https://hackaday.com/2021/05/20/freenode-debacle-prompts-staff-exodus-new-network/
> > 
> > I want you all to know the following:
> > 
> > 1) There is none communication platform that can beat the good old
> > IRC.
> > 
> 
> Discord and Matrix are serious, quality NKOTB.
> 
> I have my own IRC server, it is online since 2016 but I never
> > advertised it so it is quite unused. For the LinuxCNC community, I
> > can
> > set up as many channels as you want, for free and without logins. I
> > would do this on a voluntary basis, thus without any warranty that
> > access is available 24/7 but in 5 years it has always been online.
> 
> For as much as I genuinely appreciate your offer, I believe it'd be
> better
> to migrate lcnc irc channel on a community managed network.


To which community do you refer?

AFAIK I am quite silent but part of the LinuxCNC community :-)




> Thanks _a_lot_
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Freenode Shenagins

2021-05-22 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Sat, 2021-05-22 at 10:09 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> On Sat, 22 May 2021 at 08:28, Valerio Bellizzomi 
> wrote:
> 
> > 4) Please contact me privately if you want to set up channels.
> 
> I don't know if there is anyone who thinks that they have the
> authority to move the channel to a different server. But thanks for
> the offer.
> 
> (And I think that we already have to many support channels, with our
> forums, Discord, the area on CNCzone, that new one that I have
> already
> forgotten the name of...)

just noticed that at CNCzone they use the same software I use for my
forum: vBulletin.





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Re: [Emc-users] Freenode Shenagins

2021-05-22 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Thu, 2021-05-20 at 15:12 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> More on this:
> https://hackaday.com/2021/05/20/freenode-debacle-prompts-staff-exodus-new-network/
> 


I want you all to know the following:

1) There is none communication platform that can beat the good old IRC.
I have my own IRC server, it is online since 2016 but I never
advertised it so it is quite unused. For the LinuxCNC community, I can
set up as many channels as you want, for free and without logins. I
would do this on a voluntary basis, thus without any warranty that
access is available 24/7 but in 5 years it has always been online.

2) To access the server you need to enable SSL, there isn't plain
access, only SSL access.

3) The address of the server is: selroc.systems

4) Please contact me privately if you want to set up channels.

5) If someone can help me setting up services, that is help with
configuring ANOPE, you are welcome and I would appreciate help.


Regards.




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Re: [Emc-users] Freenode Shenagins

2021-05-20 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Thu, 2021-05-20 at 10:58 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> On Thu, 20 May 2021 at 05:20, Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> 
> > This does not bode well for freenode. But in 20 some years, I have
> > accessed freenode maybe as many times as I've fingers. The login
> > has
> > more pitfalls than the vietnamese jungle in the 70's. Forums are an
> > even
> > bigger PITA, you change browsers and/or forget the pw and it won't
> > even
> > email you a one time pad number
> 
> ??
> 
> Freenode is the host of the IRC chat. I don't know why you would need
> a login, and didn't even know that they had forums.
> 


After a breach or spamming attack they have set up logins for
registered users.






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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Fwd: Re: Proposal: Stop supporting Py2 and GTK2 in Master.

2021-05-13 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Thu, 2021-05-13 at 14:37 +0200, Rene Hopf wrote:
> On 13.05.21 13:26, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Thu, 2021-05-13 at 09:54 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> > > On Thu, 13 May 2021 at 07:01, Feral Engineer <
> > > theferalengin...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I think doing something as
> > > > dramatic as changing so much of the source code that it could
> > > > essentially
> > > > brick a lot of machines (at least for the short term) should
> > > > come
> > > > with a
> > > > major release rather than a 2.x release
> > > EMC2 v8 to EMC2 v9 would be a major release :-)
> > > 
> > > The changes between 2.7 and 2.8 were massive compared to this.
> > > 
> > > I think that there is some misunderstanding of the dangers here:
> > > Python 3 is available on all platforms currently supported by
> > > LinuxCNC and
> > > at at least v3.5 on all platforms supported by Master.
> > > 
> > > Python 3 would be listed in the package dependencies, and
> > > automatically
> > > installed.
> > > 
> > > Python 2 is already gone.
> > > https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/#:~:text=We%20are%20volunteers%20who%20make,a%20security%20problem%20in%20it
> > > .
> > > LinuxCNC needs to adapt to this.
> > > 
> > > There is no danger of "bricking" a machine, LinuxCNC already
> > > works
> > > with
> > > Python 3 and several of the existing GUIs. (including Axis)
> > > 
> > > GTK2 support is already tenuous, there are some packages that we
> > > are
> > > having
> > > to backport ourselves via the LinuxCNC repositories (glade-gtk2,
> > > python-gtksourceview, python-rsvg). That isn't a viable long-term
> > > solution,
> > > we need to only have dependencies that are actually packaged for
> > > the
> > > target
> > > OS.
> > > 
> > I think there is no other choice than to follow their guide ASAP.
> > 
> > "Porting Python 2 Code to Python 3"
> > 
> > https://docs.python.org/3/howto/pyporting.html
> 
> I think there is some misunderstanding. python3 is not the issue,
> most 
> python3 problems have been solved over a year ago.
> 
> buildbot even runs the tests with python3: 
> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/1660.rip-buster-python3
> 
> users would not even notice the change, unless they have custom
> python code.
> 
> The issue is gtk. you cannot use gtk2 with python3. its just a
> unlucky 
> coincidence that both things are happening at the same time.


Okay then, I have an old version of LinuxCNC but not using it ATM, I
would be glad to switch to a newer version even if it entails redoing
configs and interface customization, by the time it gets published and
usable I could have a new CNC probably.





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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Fwd: Re: Proposal: Stop supporting Py2 and GTK2 in Master.

2021-05-13 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Thu, 2021-05-13 at 09:54 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> On Thu, 13 May 2021 at 07:01, Feral Engineer <
> theferalengin...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > I think doing something as
> > dramatic as changing so much of the source code that it could
> > essentially
> > brick a lot of machines (at least for the short term) should come
> > with a
> > major release rather than a 2.x release
> 
> EMC2 v8 to EMC2 v9 would be a major release :-)
> 
> The changes between 2.7 and 2.8 were massive compared to this.
> 
> I think that there is some misunderstanding of the dangers here:
> Python 3 is available on all platforms currently supported by
> LinuxCNC and
> at at least v3.5 on all platforms supported by Master.
> 
> Python 3 would be listed in the package dependencies, and
> automatically
> installed.
> 
> Python 2 is already gone.
> https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/#:~:text=We%20are%20volunteers%20who%20make,a%20security%20problem%20in%20it
> .
> LinuxCNC needs to adapt to this.
> 
> There is no danger of "bricking" a machine, LinuxCNC already works
> with
> Python 3 and several of the existing GUIs. (including Axis)
> 
> GTK2 support is already tenuous, there are some packages that we are
> having
> to backport ourselves via the LinuxCNC repositories (glade-gtk2,
> python-gtksourceview, python-rsvg). That isn't a viable long-term
> solution,
> we need to only have dependencies that are actually packaged for the
> target
> OS.
> 

I think there is no other choice than to follow their guide ASAP.

"Porting Python 2 Code to Python 3"

https://docs.python.org/3/howto/pyporting.html





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Re: [Emc-users] Programs to write G code

2021-03-28 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Sun, 2021-03-28 at 17:05 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 03/28/2021 02:34 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > I am very interested in your programs. In the past I have 
> > used PyCAM to generate gcode, and even Excel and text 
> > editors to write gcode, attempted to use BlenderCAM 
> > without success, still have to test FreeCAD Path Module.
> I have put the Pascal source on my web page at :
> http://pico-systems.com/codes/gcode/dragon.pas
>This makes an engraving program for the Sierpinski 
> snowflake space filling curve.
> http://pico-systems.com/codes/gcode/hilbert.pas
>This makes an engraving program for the Hilbert space 
> filling curve.
> http://pico-systems.com/codes/gcode/makebore.pas
> http://pico-systems.com/codes/gcode/makering.pas
>  This program cuts a ring-shaped groove for checking the 
> spindle tram of a milling machine.
> http://pico-systems.com/codes/gcode/maketram.pas
> 
> If you can't access these files let me know, there could be 
> a permission problem.
> 
> Jon


Thank you very much.





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Re: [Emc-users] Programs to write G code

2021-03-28 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Sun, 2021-03-28 at 13:48 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 03/28/2021 11:52 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > The code fragment I posted was originally in C.  I translated that
> > to Pascal.  I was just wondering if you were the author of the bore
> > with IJ or R C code.  I didn't see any links to the programs on
> > your web site.
> > 
> > 
> Right, I never posted the Pascal source as I thought that 
> was too far off the beaten path.
> My Allen-Bradley control didn't have R arcs, I don't think, 
> so my original programs all generated
> the I and J words.  When I moved to EMC in about 1998, I 
> found it was too picky about start and end radii so I 
> changed it to use the R words.
> 
> If you want all my old Pascal programs, I could sent them.  
> Also, I have some newer programs
> that I have never put on my web site that do more advanced 
> movements, like ramping down in Z.
> 
> Jon


I am very interested in your programs.
In the past I have used PyCAM to generate gcode, and even Excel and
text editors to write gcode, attempted to use BlenderCAM without
success, still have to test FreeCAD Path Module.

Valerio




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Re: [Emc-users] digitizing tablet

2021-01-26 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2021-01-26 at 10:31 -0600, brainf...@posteo.net wrote:
> who is using a digitizing tablet
> what are you using
> advice using it with linux

Debian has drivers for the Wacom tablets.




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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

2020-09-04 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Fri, 2020-09-04 at 21:43 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 20:17, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > I'm not going to turn this into a rant about Linux command lines but when 
> > you think about it much of working with LinuxCNC is essentially still 
> > 'command line' oriented.
> 
> Actually, it isn't. But it looks that way from email lists, forums and
> IRC because it is _much_ easier to tell someone the text-based way to
> do something on a text-based medium than it is to describe the GUI
> approach.
> 
> Advanced HAL involves text editing, despite a few attempts at a GUI.
> But bear in mind that the HAL is typically set up once and used
> unchanged for years. A fancy GUI might not be a worthwhile time
> investment, and no matter how good is likely to miss some features
> that can be hand-coded.
> 
> LinuxCNC configuration is graphical, with pncconf and stepconf. There
> are (several) conversational interfaces for simple operations. Some
> more finished and workable than others.
> What is needed there is a bit more integration between the GUIs and
> the CAM. (I am thinking particularly of NativeCAM here, which does
> clever stuff with block-delete to show the stock in the preview, but
> it would be nicer if that was something that the GUI knew how to do.
> 


Did you try GenericCAM ?

http://genericcam.sourceforge.net/

It compiles good on Ubuntu.




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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

2020-09-04 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Fri, 2020-09-04 at 15:39 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Friday 04 September 2020 13:20:26 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 2020-09-04 at 10:02 -0700, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 9:50 AM Mark Wendt  
> wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 12:41 PM Chris Albertson
> > > >  > > >
> > > > wrote
> > > >
> > > > > ...So, to make LinuxCNC nearly universal, hide it inside a
> > > > > product that
> > > >
> > > > is
> > > >
> > > > > slick and easy to install and use.  No one should have to look
> > > > > at HAL
> > > >
> > > > files
> > > >
> > > > > or know it runs on Linux.  They can learn, but if learning is
> > > > > required it will always remain a niche product.
> > > >
> > > > Great stuff!  So, when are you going to get started on this
> > > > project?
> > >
> > > I wrote that to show why it will never happen.   But also to make a
> > > point that there does exist a pattern in the way complex niche
> > > products become mainstream.   Usually, another layer is built around
> > > it.PCs were kind of rare until Windows covered over the DOS
> > > command line.
> >
> > This is questionable. I used a PC with UNIX in 1984 and all our
> > clients had UNIX. No graphics interface, only command line, databases
> > and ad-hoc graphic programs. This was before Windows, we had UNIX and
> > DOS in dual-boot on some PCs, UNIX on the servers. However the Apple
> > Mac already had a graphics interface :-)
> >
> Our first experince with unix, was on an AT 3B2 CBS bought all the 
> affiliates as a message service.  It was not a good experience because 
> the 3b2 was built like most Apples, the first layer of dust and cheap 
> sleeve bearing fans killed a fan and usually started a fire. I had a 
> halon extinguisher sitting next to it that got used a couple times.  
> Then CBS bought us all new systems running on a pc, running NT-3.5.1, 
> which had a built in timer in its housekeeping that deleted the 
> main .dll about every 2 years. I called Redmond and got called a pie rat 
> because I wanted a copy of that .dll.  I washed my hands of anything 
> that looked like windows, somebody else could have that headache and 
> when I decided my amiga was on its last legs, and built a pc from parts 
> in '98, it got red hat 5.0 installed. My property has a bounty on 
> windows, and no windows I've ever been forced to buy has lasted more 
> than a week past the warranty. I have one win-10 box, a $330 hp thing 
> used as a display for drawing smith charts of an AM broadcast tower, 
> couldn't make the linux drivers work. IMNSHO Win-10 is a damned poor 
> substutute for Linux.  But you ALL know that. :)
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


My first experience with unix was on my IBM PC1, with one 5 1/4 floppy
and a 32MB IBM hard disk. the OS was Interactive Systems Unix and DOS
3.3 in dual-boot. But this was after playing/programming four years with
my Commodore 64.
I still have the C64 in a drawer with all the devices and floppies :-)
Also I have conserved the DOS Turbo Pascal 3.0 compiler and also Turbo
Prolog, Fortran 77 4.1 and Autocad 2.9 :-)





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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

2020-09-04 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Fri, 2020-09-04 at 10:02 -0700, Chris Albertson wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 9:50 AM Mark Wendt  wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 12:41 PM Chris Albertson  > >
> > wrote
> > > ...So, to make LinuxCNC nearly universal, hide it inside a product that
> > is
> > > slick and easy to install and use.  No one should have to look at HAL
> > files
> > > or know it runs on Linux.  They can learn, but if learning is required it
> > > will always remain a niche product.
> > >
> >
> > Great stuff!  So, when are you going to get started on this project?
> >
> 
> I wrote that to show why it will never happen.   But also to make a point
> that there does exist a pattern in the way complex niche products become
> mainstream.   Usually, another layer is built around it.PCs were kind
> of rare until Windows covered over the DOS command line.

This is questionable. I used a PC with UNIX in 1984 and all our clients
had UNIX. No graphics interface, only command line, databases and ad-hoc
graphic programs. This was before Windows, we had UNIX and DOS in
dual-boot on some PCs, UNIX on the servers. However the Apple Mac
already had a graphics interface :-)






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Re: [Emc-users] Best VM to run Linuxcnc in

2020-09-01 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
QEMU/KVM




On Tue, 2020-09-01 at 17:58 +0200, Marius wrote:
> What would the VM users say that the best free version of VM would be to 
> run LinuxCnc in. I have to do a demo for a client and I dont have a 
> working machine to do so with.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Marius
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] hostmot2-firmware built, but failing to install

2020-06-10 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2020-06-09 at 16:03 +0200, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> On Tue, 2020-06-09 at 10:54 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> > On Tue, 9 Jun 2020 at 03:02, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> > 
> > installing linuxcnc 2.9 package on Debian Buster needs hostmot2
> > > installed.
> > >
> > 
> > I don't think it is a requirement. It shouldn't be.
> > Packages are available from LinuxCNC:
> > http://www.linuxcnc.org/dists/buster/base/binary-all/
> > 
> > 
> > > In what directory must the bit file be placed?
> > 
> > 
> > That depends on what Mesa cards you are using.  Most of them only need the
> > firmware once, and it can be kept anywhere.
> > 5i20, 7i43 etc, which load the firmware at every boot, need the bitfles to
> > be in /lib/firmware/hm2
> > 
> 
> 
> Got linuxcnc 2.9 running on Debian Buster with Mesa 5i25...OK.
> 
> 
> Gmoccapy lacks A axis jog for a 5 axis machine configuration (screenshot
> attached).
> 
> Going to try to install Qtpyvcp...

It's fantastic everything works, even qtpyvcp, and the qt designer to
edit the qtpyvcp panel, and probe_basic too.

I just need a larger screen because probe_basic display is too large for
my screen.





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Re: [Emc-users] hostmot2-firmware built, but failing to install

2020-06-09 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2020-06-09 at 10:54 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Jun 2020 at 03:02, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> 
> installing linuxcnc 2.9 package on Debian Buster needs hostmot2
> > installed.
> >
> 
> I don't think it is a requirement. It shouldn't be.
> Packages are available from LinuxCNC:
> http://www.linuxcnc.org/dists/buster/base/binary-all/
> 
> 
> > In what directory must the bit file be placed?
> 
> 
> That depends on what Mesa cards you are using.  Most of them only need the
> firmware once, and it can be kept anywhere.
> 5i20, 7i43 etc, which load the firmware at every boot, need the bitfles to
> be in /lib/firmware/hm2
> 


my card is Mesa 5i25.





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Re: [Emc-users] hostmot2-firmware built, but failing to install

2020-06-08 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2020-06-09 at 01:20 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 18:30, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> 
> > the make process completes but dpkg-builpackage terminates with Error 2
> 
> 
> It might still have worked.
> 
> And you probably don't need a deb package. All you really need is your
> bitfile.
> 

installing linuxcnc 2.9 package on Debian Buster needs hostmot2
installed.

In what directory must the bit file be placed?






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[Emc-users] hostmot2-firmware built, but failing to install

2020-06-08 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
the make process completes but dpkg-builpackage terminates with Error 2

later I will post details.

btw, it was necessary to trick Xilinx to build on 64 bits, basically:

mv .../lin to .../lin32
mv .../lin64 to .../lin

that way it builds.




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[Emc-users] @Andrew Beck, how did you get qtpyvcp working?

2020-06-06 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Hi, I would like to use qtpyvcp instead of gmoccapy, can you help me?
How did you get qtpyvcp on LinuxCNC?
and how did you configure it?

Regards




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Re: [Emc-users] QtPyVCP installation error

2020-05-16 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Fri, 2020-05-15 at 13:40 -0500, Bari wrote:
> On 5/15/20 1:02 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> >
> > I am using 2.8 amd64, I will the instructions tomorrow and post the
> > result.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> Support for QTPYVCP is really great on IRC freenode  #hazzy


Launching pyvcp shows error: option -i not recognized




hm2_5i25.0: initialized AnyIO board at :03:00.0
Found file(REL): ./custom.hal
Starting TASK program: milltask
Starting DISPLAY program: pyvcp
option -i not recognized
Usage: pyvcp [-g WIDTHxHEIGHT+XOFFSET+YOFFSET][-c hal_component_name]
myfile.xml
If the component name is not specified, the basename of the xml file is
used.
-g options are in pixel units, XOFFSET/YOFFSET is referenced from top
left of screen
use -g WIDTHxHEIGHT for just setting size or -g +XOFFSET+YOFFSET for
just position
Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...
Running HAL shutdown script




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Re: [Emc-users] QtPyVCP installation error

2020-05-15 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Fri, 2020-05-15 at 13:40 -0500, Bari wrote:
> On 5/15/20 1:02 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> >
> > I am using 2.8 amd64, I will the instructions tomorrow and post the
> > result.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> Support for QTPYVCP is really great on IRC freenode  #hazzy


Installing pyqtvcp with pip failed even I compiled Qt5, but installation
worked from the debian package.

Launching LinuxCNC however got the following error:

Starting DISPLAY program: qtvcp
option -i not recognized.






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Re: [Emc-users] QtPyVCP installation error

2020-05-15 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Fri, 2020-05-15 at 12:50 -0500, Bari wrote:
> On 5/15/20 12:21 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Thu, 2020-05-14 at 13:44 -0500, Bari wrote:
> >> On 5/14/20 11:39 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> >>
> >
> > Thank you. I got the file libpyqt5_py2.so from github and copied it to
> > the suggested directory, still the same error.
> > I think some basic piece of software is missing at this point, like you
> > said.
> >
> i haven't installed for a few weeks but i did install all this on 4-5 
> systems and they all worked.
> 
> https://www.qtpyvcp.com/install/installation.html#qtdesigner-plug-ins
> 
> The easiest way to install the libs to the correct location is to use 
> the install.sh script located in the qtpyvcp/pyqt5designer/Qt5.7.1-64bit 
> directory with this command.
> 
> sudo ./install.sh
> 
> If you are using a different architecture or Qt version you may need to 
> compile PyQt5 from source to get the proper libpyqt5.so file. The steps 
> should be similar those listed here.
> 
> https://gist.github.com/KurtJacobson/34a2e45ea2227ba58702fc1cb0372c40


I am using 2.8 amd64, I will the instructions tomorrow and post the
result.

Thanks.




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Re: [Emc-users] QtPyVCP installation error

2020-05-15 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Thu, 2020-05-14 at 13:44 -0500, Bari wrote:
> On 5/14/20 11:39 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Thu, 2020-05-14 at 12:31 -0400, Eric Keller wrote:
> >> error: can't copy 'pyqt5designer/Qt5.7.1-64bit/libpyqt5_py2.so':
> >> doesn't exist or not a regular file
> >>
> >>
> >> It appears you don't have a prerequisite or it's not installed properly in
> >> the expected directory
> >
> >
> >
> > If so the instructions are incomplete, because I have copy/pasted the
> > prerequisite 'apt install ...' line, and I am sure I copied it exactly.
> >
> 
> Yes some of the install instructions are incomplete. It is close but not 
> perfect. I am in the process of helping to fix the installation 
> instructions.


Thank you. I got the file libpyqt5_py2.so from github and copied it to
the suggested directory, still the same error.
I think some basic piece of software is missing at this point, like you
said.




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Re: [Emc-users] QtPyVCP installation error

2020-05-14 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Thu, 2020-05-14 at 13:44 -0500, Bari wrote:
> On 5/14/20 11:39 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Thu, 2020-05-14 at 12:31 -0400, Eric Keller wrote:
> >> error: can't copy 'pyqt5designer/Qt5.7.1-64bit/libpyqt5_py2.so':
> >> doesn't exist or not a regular file
> >>
> >>
> >> It appears you don't have a prerequisite or it's not installed properly in
> >> the expected directory
> >
> >
> >
> > If so the instructions are incomplete, because I have copy/pasted the
> > prerequisite 'apt install ...' line, and I am sure I copied it exactly.
> >
> 
> Yes some of the install instructions are incomplete. It is close but not 
> perfect. I am in the process of helping to fix the installation 
> instructions.

I got the file libpyqt5_py2.so from github, now I need to know in which
directory I must copy it.





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Re: [Emc-users] QtPyVCP installation error

2020-05-14 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Thu, 2020-05-14 at 12:31 -0400, Eric Keller wrote:
> error: can't copy 'pyqt5designer/Qt5.7.1-64bit/libpyqt5_py2.so':
> doesn't exist or not a regular file
> 
> 
> It appears you don't have a prerequisite or it's not installed properly in
> the expected directory




If so the instructions are incomplete, because I have copy/pasted the
prerequisite 'apt install ...' line, and I am sure I copied it exactly.





> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:02 PM Valerio Bellizzomi 
> wrote:
> 
> > I have followed the instructions on github and got the error in the
> > attached file:
> >
> >
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC master

2020-05-14 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Thu, 2020-05-14 at 13:44 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> On Thu, 14 May 2020 at 13:38, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> >
> > Hello, how do I download LinuxCNC master (2.8-pre) and install QtPyVCP ?
> 
> The easiest way to get 2.8 or Master is from the BuildBot:
> 
> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org
> 
> Follow the instructions there.
> 

It was straightforward to install LinuxCNC from buildbot, recovered my
settings from saved user directory, then I got an error installing
QtPyVCP (error attached in previous mail).




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[Emc-users] QtPyVCP installation error

2020-05-14 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
I have followed the instructions on github and got the error in the
attached file:


 UPDATING build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.7/qtpyvcp/_version.py
set build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.7/qtpyvcp/_version.py to 'v0.3.7'
running install_lib
copying build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.7/qtpyvcp/_version.py -> 
/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/qtpyvcp
byte-compiling /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/qtpyvcp/_version.py 
to _version.pyc
running install_data
error: can't copy 'pyqt5designer/Qt5.7.1-64bit/libpyqt5_py2.so': doesn't 
exist or not a regular file


Command "/usr/bin/python -u -c "import setuptools, 
tokenize;__file__='/tmp/pip-build-dTcwyV/qtpyvcp/setup.py';f=getattr(tokenize, 
'open', open)(__file__);code=f.read().replace('\r\n', 
'\n');f.close();exec(compile(code, __file__, 'exec'))" install --record 
/tmp/pip-5E3SkL-record/install-record.txt --single-version-externally-managed 
--compile" failed with error code 1 in /tmp/pip-build-dTcwyV/qtpyvcp/
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC master

2020-05-14 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Thu, 2020-05-14 at 13:44 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> On Thu, 14 May 2020 at 13:38, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> >
> > Hello, how do I download LinuxCNC master (2.8-pre) and install QtPyVCP ?
> 
> The easiest way to get 2.8 or Master is from the BuildBot:
> 
> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org
> 
> Follow the instructions there.
> 


Thank you, I think I can get QtPyVCP installed by following the
instructions on github.





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[Emc-users] LinuxCNC master

2020-05-14 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Hello, how do I download LinuxCNC master (2.8-pre) and install QtPyVCP ?

Regards.




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Re: [Emc-users] Which is the latest release?

2020-03-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Thank you very much too.


On Sun, 2020-03-29 at 13:46 +, andy pugh wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 at 09:04, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> >
> > This onelinuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64.iso
> > or this one   linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64-r13.iso
> 
> The non-suffixed version is a symbolic link to the -13 version.
> 
> ie linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64.iso will always be the latest version
> even if there was to be a -14 version. (as the link would be changed)
> 
> 1334640640 Oct  3  2018 linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64-r12.iso
> 2606967 Oct  2  2018 linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64-r12.iso.zsync
> 1339883520 Oct 27  2018 linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64-r13.iso
> 2617207 Oct 27  2018 linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64-r13.iso.zsync
> 37 Oct 27  2018 linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64.iso ->
> linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64-r13.iso
> 43 Oct 27  2018 linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64.iso.zsync ->
> linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64-r13.iso.zsync
> 1369374720 Oct  3  2018 linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-i386-r12.iso
> 2674805 Oct  2  2018 linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-i386-r12.iso.zsync
> 1374748672 Oct 27  2018 linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-i386-r13.iso
> 2685301 Oct 27  2018 linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-i386-r13.iso.zsync
> 36 Oct 27  2018 linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-i386.iso ->
> linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-i386-r13.iso
> 42 Oct 27  2018 linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-i386.iso.zsync ->
> linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-i386-r13.iso.zsync
> 




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Re: [Emc-users] planning for release change

2020-03-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Thank you very much.


On Sun, 2020-03-29 at 06:37 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 29 March 2020 04:00:19 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > Which files must be saved in order to restore the current LinuxCNC
> > configuration in the new release?
> >
> The users /home/linuxcnc/*
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett




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[Emc-users] Which is the latest release?

2020-03-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
This onelinuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64.iso   
or this one   linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64-r13.iso  

?


 Thanks




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[Emc-users] planning for release change

2020-03-29 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Which files must be saved in order to restore the current LinuxCNC
configuration in the new release?





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Re: [Emc-users] Who knows about LASIMM ?

2020-03-28 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
I know nothing about twincat, but it is cool.


On Sat, 2020-03-28 at 18:41 +0100, theman whosoldtheworld wrote:
> twincat magician?
> 
> Il giorno sab 28 mar 2020 alle ore 17:29 Valerio Bellizzomi <
> vale...@selnet.org> ha scritto:
> 
> > On Fri, 2020-03-27 at 13:31 +, andy pugh wrote:
> > > On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 at 13:00, Valerio Bellizzomi 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > This actially means they have an advanced control system. Can really
> > > > LinuxCNC do the same with metal additive and subtractive plus
> > metrology?
> > >
> > > Yes and no...
> > >
> > > LinuxCNC can't control three independent robots like this machine can.
> > >
> > > But I would expect that the interactions between the robots were
> > > handled in the CAM layer, not in the machine controller.
> >
> > They talk about an advanced control system, no idea what that means
> > though. Is it possible that they can control the 3 robots
> > simultaneously?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Who knows about LASIMM ?

2020-03-28 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Fri, 2020-03-27 at 13:31 +, andy pugh wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 at 13:00, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> 
> > This actially means they have an advanced control system. Can really
> > LinuxCNC do the same with metal additive and subtractive plus metrology?
> 
> Yes and no...
> 
> LinuxCNC can't control three independent robots like this machine can.
> 
> But I would expect that the interactions between the robots were
> handled in the CAM layer, not in the machine controller.

They talk about an advanced control system, no idea what that means
though. Is it possible that they can control the 3 robots
simultaneously?





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Re: [Emc-users] Who knows about LASIMM ?

2020-03-27 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Fri, 2020-03-27 at 10:40 +0100, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> Have you actually read or at least watched the site?
> 
> It is a hybrid machine doing additive and subtractive, metrology and
> cold work capabilities.


This actially means they have an advanced control system. Can really
LinuxCNC do the same with metal additive and subtractive plus metrology?




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Re: [Emc-users] Who knows about LASIMM ?

2020-03-27 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
Have you actually read or at least watched the site?

It is a hybrid machine doing additive and subtractive, metrology and
cold work capabilities.


On Fri, 2020-03-27 at 11:32 +0200, Roland Jollivet wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 at 11:23, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> 
> > It is a phenomenal machine
> >
> > http://www.lasimm.eu/
> >
> >
> > <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users>
> 
> 
> 
> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users>
> 
> I don't get it...
> 
> All those fancy robots and all they can show is a bit of crappy welding?
> 
> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users>
> 
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[Emc-users] Who knows about LASIMM ?

2020-03-27 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
It is a phenomenal machine

http://www.lasimm.eu/




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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

2020-01-21 Thread Valerio Bellizzomi
On Tue, 2020-01-21 at 12:39 -0800, Rafael Skodlar wrote:
> On 2020-01-21 11:31, bari wrote:
> > On 1/20/20 11:55 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote:
> >> That's fine. You can experiment with software/HW any way you want. I
> >> was pointing out what makes sense and what not. You can try running
> >> X-windows over PPP connection through 56k modem over the phone line if
> >> you want.
> >>
> >> I would rather "experiment" with headless CNC machine located in EU
> >> from  my GUI front-end on Linux workstation in CA. Modern bandwidth
> >> would allow for video from a camera mounted above CNC machine.
> >>
> >> - headless LinuxCNC core with USB for keyboard and simple text display
> >> needed for basic OS installation, configuration, or troubleshooting
> >> - GUI fronted for machine operator; platform independent (i386, Arm)
> >> - API for special additions and future development
> > 
> > How will the CNC machine operator at the remote location with the GUI
> > (many miles/kilometers away from the machine) handle loading the
> > material and unloading the parts from the machine? How will they handle
> > issues with chatter, worn or broken tools, etc etc?
> 
> That's a matter of $$$. It's possible to handle such tasks already. In 
> case of LinuxCNC is not easy to provide remote support. Lets say LCNC 
> architecture with headless controller allows a VPN connection to API to 
> see or manage the machine remotely or collaborate with operator that's 
> not familiar with Linux. Some surgical robots already make this 
> possible. I bet that's way more critical RT system than a CNC machine 
> which ends up with broken router bit when "oops" happens.
> 
> > Is this for some sort of fully automated manufacturing plant in the future?
> 
> Well, future is here and I get very excited just reading about it:
> https://www.universal-robots.com/
> CNC machines are robots in a sense.
> 
> However, we should not forget how we made it to where we are. I do 
> support and participate in efforts to restore old computing equipment in 
> computer museum for future generations to admire. It's a lot of fun when 
> you meet people who programmed those machines when or before some of us 
> were in diapers ;-)
> 
> > 
> > What exactly are the problems that need solutions or that you want to solve?
> 
> I would like to see low cost solutions based on LCNC for hobby or small 
> business users so that they can do their work more productively and 
> perhaps grow to the point to be able to buy more advanced robotic systems.
> 
> It's my intention to put together a small CNC to be able to do more than 
> what I can do with not very accurate Grizzly lathe/mill combo. I don't 
> mind paying some $$ for components to put a simple CNC machine together. 
> If those components were built by members of this list we would all 
> benefit. Software and HW QA, feedback, and promotion elsewhere.
> 
> One possibility for motivating software developers would be to help them 
> buy industrial grade embedded computer/electronics set that they could 
> use for writing code and quick test. That could cover upgrade for long 
> list of existing machines or help you build new machines. This has been 
> done before by HW manufacturers that needed drivers for their products.
> 
> I see Mesa covers a range of components that could be used that way but 
> it's showing it's age and it's only a single source.
> 
> Other times such efforts end up as products, open software and hardware; 
> example: https://ardupilot.org/
> 
> Generic PC motherboards with multi-core CPUs, GBs of RAM, for CNC use 
> make no sense anymore.
> 
> Aluminum extrusions make it possible to make all kinds of machines that 
> don't exist yet. It's perfect material for people with small work space.
> 
> I spent a lot of hours researching this subject on the Internet or 
> talking to people at different trade shows but they all seem to sell 
> full expensive solutions with proprietary software. Nobody showed any 
> interest in LCNC.
> 
> I found interesting snap cnc-designer which needs some work but it's the 
> only CNC related piece of software in Linux containers space that I'm 
> aware of.
> 
> Following this mailing list for very long I have yet to see a discussion 
> about flexible cables for CNC machines; specific types, wire sizes, 
> brand names, etc.
> 
> Thanks for not kicking me around ;-)
> 


I still repeat, I can't find anything better than LinuxCNC to run my
CNCs, and maybe you are aware that it is already possible to do via
ethernet with a Mesa card http://www.mesanet.com/





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