Re: [Emc-users] BBB and LCD 7
Does anyone know of a place to purchase more beaglebones? Seems like everyone is out of stock. Charles Buckley On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 12:45 AM, Paul Lacatus (Personal) p...@paul-lacatus.ro wrote: On Element 14 there is BBview : http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-55844/l/element14-bb-view-lcd-cape-for-beaglebone-family-boards I have tested the 4 version but not on machinekit , on debian . On 3/12/2014 2:21 AM, Charles Buckley wrote: I am using a lilliput 7 inch, but that is on x86. Not sure about the touch drivers on BBB. I tried modifying gaxis for gscreen, but it was hit or miss in terms of functionality. It would drop into a weird state where it would not home because it thought it was homing an axis. On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Condit Alan condita...@yahoo.com wrote: I had a 7 LCD cape on order from Mouser for several months and finally gave up and cancelled the order. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good 7 LCD touch screen to use with the BBB and LinuxCNC? Alan -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] BBB and LCD 7
EmBest, a division of element14 (aka Farnell/Newark Electronics) has started second sourcing the BBB. Slightly higher price, but includes a console port serial debug cable. See: http://www.embest-tech.com/shop/star/beaglebone-black.html Also, it looks like the situation with Circuit Co. should be getting slightly better. A few units have shown up on GarageLab and Special Computing, but sell quickly. Steve Stallings -Original Message- From: Charles Buckley [mailto:rijrun...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 10:34 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] BBB and LCD 7 Does anyone know of a place to purchase more beaglebones? Seems like everyone is out of stock. Charles Buckley On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 12:45 AM, Paul Lacatus (Personal) p...@paul-lacatus.ro wrote: On Element 14 there is BBview : http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-55844/l/element14- bb-view-lcd-cape-for-beaglebone-family-boards I have tested the 4 version but not on machinekit , on debian . On 3/12/2014 2:21 AM, Charles Buckley wrote: I am using a lilliput 7 inch, but that is on x86. Not sure about the touch drivers on BBB. I tried modifying gaxis for gscreen, but it was hit or miss in terms of functionality. It would drop into a weird state where it would not home because it thought it was homing an axis. On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Condit Alan condita...@yahoo.com wrote: I had a 7 LCD cape on order from Mouser for several months and finally gave up and cancelled the order. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good 7 LCD touch screen to use with the BBB and LinuxCNC? Alan -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] BBB and LCD 7
Oops, their shipping is a killer. Another alternative at a still higher price but cheaper shipping: http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/BeagleBone-Black-Embest-p-1736.html Steve Stallings -Original Message- From: Steve Stallings [mailto:steve...@newsguy.com] Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 11:48 AM To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' Subject: Re: [Emc-users] BBB and LCD 7 EmBest, a division of element14 (aka Farnell/Newark Electronics) has started second sourcing the BBB. Slightly higher price, but includes a console port serial debug cable. See: http://www.embest-tech.com/shop/star/beaglebone-black.html Also, it looks like the situation with Circuit Co. should be getting slightly better. A few units have shown up on GarageLab and Special Computing, but sell quickly. Steve Stallings -Original Message- From: Charles Buckley [mailto:rijrun...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 10:34 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] BBB and LCD 7 Does anyone know of a place to purchase more beaglebones? Seems like everyone is out of stock. Charles Buckley On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 12:45 AM, Paul Lacatus (Personal) p...@paul-lacatus.ro wrote: On Element 14 there is BBview : http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-55844/l/element14- bb-view-lcd-cape-for-beaglebone-family-boards I have tested the 4 version but not on machinekit , on debian . On 3/12/2014 2:21 AM, Charles Buckley wrote: I am using a lilliput 7 inch, but that is on x86. Not sure about the touch drivers on BBB. I tried modifying gaxis for gscreen, but it was hit or miss in terms of functionality. It would drop into a weird state where it would not home because it thought it was homing an axis. On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Condit Alan condita...@yahoo.com wrote: I had a 7 LCD cape on order from Mouser for several months and finally gave up and cancelled the order. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good 7 LCD touch screen to use with the BBB and LinuxCNC? Alan -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https
Re: [Emc-users] BBB and LCD 7
Thanks. Looking into it. Has anyone looked at http://garagelabstore.com/store/embedded/galileo-intel-dev-board.html the galileo for Linuxcnc? Charles Buckley On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Steve Stallings steve...@newsguy.comwrote: Oops, their shipping is a killer. Another alternative at a still higher price but cheaper shipping: http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/BeagleBone-Black-Embest-p-1736.html Steve Stallings -Original Message- From: Steve Stallings [mailto:steve...@newsguy.com] Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 11:48 AM To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' Subject: Re: [Emc-users] BBB and LCD 7 EmBest, a division of element14 (aka Farnell/Newark Electronics) has started second sourcing the BBB. Slightly higher price, but includes a console port serial debug cable. See: http://www.embest-tech.com/shop/star/beaglebone-black.html Also, it looks like the situation with Circuit Co. should be getting slightly better. A few units have shown up on GarageLab and Special Computing, but sell quickly. Steve Stallings -Original Message- From: Charles Buckley [mailto:rijrun...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 10:34 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] BBB and LCD 7 Does anyone know of a place to purchase more beaglebones? Seems like everyone is out of stock. Charles Buckley On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 12:45 AM, Paul Lacatus (Personal) p...@paul-lacatus.ro wrote: On Element 14 there is BBview : http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-55844/l/element14- bb-view-lcd-cape-for-beaglebone-family-boards I have tested the 4 version but not on machinekit , on debian . On 3/12/2014 2:21 AM, Charles Buckley wrote: I am using a lilliput 7 inch, but that is on x86. Not sure about the touch drivers on BBB. I tried modifying gaxis for gscreen, but it was hit or miss in terms of functionality. It would drop into a weird state where it would not home because it thought it was homing an axis. On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Condit Alan condita...@yahoo.com wrote: I had a 7 LCD cape on order from Mouser for several months and finally gave up and cancelled the order. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good 7 LCD touch screen to use with the BBB and LinuxCNC? Alan -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph
Re: [Emc-users] BBB and LCD 7
Yes, I looked at the Galileo and was not impressed with it as a possible CNC controller. The I/O access is a problem. The Arduino compatible stuff is compatible only at the Sketch software level. The actual signals are generated from I2C devices and cannot be run very fast. It looks like the best hope for fast I/O is the mini- PCIexpress card slot. Also, the Galileo offers no on-board video. The Cubie stuff looks much better suited for CNC control if you can live without the PRU co-processors on the BBB. Steve Stallings -Original Message- From: Charles Buckley [mailto:rijrun...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 11:12 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] BBB and LCD 7 Thanks. Looking into it. Has anyone looked at http://garagelabstore.com/store/embedded/galileo-intel-dev-boa rd.html the galileo for Linuxcnc? Charles Buckley -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] BBB and LCD 7
On 03/14/2014 10:33 AM, Charles Buckley wrote: Does anyone know of a place to purchase more beaglebones? Seems like everyone is out of stock. Everybody is on backorder. You just have to place your order to get into the line. Circuitco is making 3000 bone blacks a week, last I heard! They are working on getting another fabricator started to up the output. Jon -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] BBB and LCD 7
I have a bunch I'm taking with me to the Midwest RepRap Festival. I'm thinking I should auction them off to pay for the trip... Starting bids, anyone?!? :) More seriously, the last boards I bought I just ordered from Mouser, who listed 6+ week leadtime IIRC. The two I bought actually showed in in something like 3-4 weeks. Just put in an order with a reputable vendor and wait for a bit. Supply _is_ tight, but nothing like the Raspberry Pi ramp up. That back order approached a year, IIRC, and there was a waiting list to be able to pay so you could get on the *actual* waiting list and eventually receive a board. Now I've got two that haven't done anything but boot up once (not enough I/O for me to justify spending time on th Pi vs. the 'Bone). On 03/14/14 10:33, Charles Buckley wrote: Does anyone know of a place to purchase more beaglebones? Seems like everyone is out of stock. Charles Buckley On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 12:45 AM, Paul Lacatus (Personal) p...@paul-lacatus.ro wrote: On Element 14 there is BBview : http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-55844/l/element14-bb-view-lcd-cape-for-beaglebone-family-boards I have tested the 4 version but not on machinekit , on debian . On 3/12/2014 2:21 AM, Charles Buckley wrote: I am using a lilliput 7 inch, but that is on x86. Not sure about the touch drivers on BBB. I tried modifying gaxis for gscreen, but it was hit or miss in terms of functionality. It would drop into a weird state where it would not home because it thought it was homing an axis. On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Condit Alan condita...@yahoo.com wrote: I had a 7 LCD cape on order from Mouser for several months and finally gave up and cancelled the order. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good 7 LCD touch screen to use with the BBB and LinuxCNC? Alan -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] BBB and LCD 7
On Element 14 there is BBview : http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-55844/l/element14-bb-view-lcd-cape-for-beaglebone-family-boards I have tested the 4 version but not on machinekit , on debian . On 3/12/2014 2:21 AM, Charles Buckley wrote: I am using a lilliput 7 inch, but that is on x86. Not sure about the touch drivers on BBB. I tried modifying gaxis for gscreen, but it was hit or miss in terms of functionality. It would drop into a weird state where it would not home because it thought it was homing an axis. On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Condit Alan condita...@yahoo.com wrote: I had a 7 LCD cape on order from Mouser for several months and finally gave up and cancelled the order. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good 7 LCD touch screen to use with the BBB and LinuxCNC? Alan -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] BBB and LCD 7
I had a 7” LCD cape on order from Mouser for several months and finally gave up and cancelled the order. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good 7” LCD touch screen to use with the BBB and LinuxCNC? Alan -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] BBB and LCD 7
On 3/11/2014 3:35 PM, Condit Alan wrote: I had a 7” LCD cape on order from Mouser for several months and finally gave up and cancelled the order. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good 7” LCD touch screen to use with the BBB and LinuxCNC? I have a couple of the inexpensive HDMI input panels from eBay. You can get a variety of sizes and resolutions, with or without a resistive touch or capacitive multi-touch interface. I personally like the readability of a 7 800x480 display, but this is slightly too small for Axis and the other UI options I've tried (although it seems like it should be more than enough screen real estate). If you get a 7 screen with more pixels, you can see the whole interface, but text becomes very difficult to read. For development work, I've switched to using old 17 DVI 1280x1024 monitors, which are big enough for me too see, with enough pixels to play with the various GUI options. The 7 screens are cute, but probably not real practical with LinuxCNC unless you're making your own GUI. -- Charles Steinkuehler char...@steinkuehler.net signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] BBB and LCD 7
I am using a lilliput 7 inch, but that is on x86. Not sure about the touch drivers on BBB. I tried modifying gaxis for gscreen, but it was hit or miss in terms of functionality. It would drop into a weird state where it would not home because it thought it was homing an axis. On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Condit Alan condita...@yahoo.com wrote: I had a 7 LCD cape on order from Mouser for several months and finally gave up and cancelled the order. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good 7 LCD touch screen to use with the BBB and LinuxCNC? Alan -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
