Re: [Emc-users] Interesting motor construction

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 12:23:01 andy pugh wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 15:27, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Translating that site into our native tongue might be a good
> > starting point.
>
> https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs=en=https%3A%2F%2Ffor
>um.strojirenstvi.cz%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D21057

15+ minutes later its still translating. I don't think google-translate 
likes my ancient version of FF any more when it sys https at the head of 
the cli. Sigh, we really really need a new LiveCD. I've had a new drive 
waiting, spinning for a year now.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting motor construction

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 15:27, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Translating that site into our native tongue might be a good starting
> point.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs=en=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.strojirenstvi.cz%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D21057



-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting motor construction

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 16:04, Jon Elson  wrote:

> .01 degrees is 36,000 counts/rev.  Large diameter encoders
> (maybe with interpolation) can do more, but maybe that is
> the raw resolution of the encoder without the interpolation.

The encoder is described as a "Resolver" in the drive manual, but is
an odd one with 4 wires, ABC and common.
The manual gives the resolution as 614,400 cpr, but as the sensor is
very multi-pole and analogue I think that is a drive limitation.
Repeatability is given as +/-2 seconds, which matches the CPR quoted.

> I do see that there are 18 wound poles on rotor, and same on
> stator.  So, that could possibly suggest a 3-phase arrangement.

The input is certainly three phase.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting motor construction

[Jon Elson]

On 03/22/2019 10:25 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:


I hope you got the driver for it with it. Dissecting that into a
schematic might reveal some secrets. Likewise, I think I'd be looking
for a way to get the encoders full resolution out of it as .01 degrees
sounds a bit coarse.
.01 degrees is 36,000 counts/rev.  Large diameter encoders 
(maybe with interpolation) can do more, but maybe that is 
the raw resolution of the encoder without the interpolation.


I do see that there are 18 wound poles on rotor, and same on 
stator.  So, that could possibly suggest a 3-phase arrangement.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting motor construction

[Jon Elson]

On 03/22/2019 07:39 AM, andy pugh wrote:

A recent (ish) acquisition was an NSK Megatorque (RS1010, which means
10" dia and 10" long)
This is rated at 147Nm (108 lb f) torque and for an axial load of
9500N (2100lbf) so is quite a beast.
Currently I am using it as a glorified protractor to calibrate a Faro arm. :-)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/J3yhuhQ7e2vbjDLg8
It has a very high-count encoder, thought he serial terminal connected
to the drive only reports angle to 0.01 degrees.

The motor is an odd shape, the output flange is a ring, and there is a
static tube inside that. Looking around on the web I found:
https://forum.strojirenstvi.cz/viewtopic.php?t=21057
Which rather explains the odd shape. It seems to be a motor with two
sets of coils.

There is a toothed rotor rather like a stepper motor, with a toothed
inner stator.

Is this a variable reluctance motor? Do the outer magnets simply
magnetise the rotor, or would there be more teeth on the outside?

Does it have magnets?  Or, by "outer magnets" do you mean 
the outer coils?  Yes, it certainly is some sort of variable 
reluctance motor.  I think I can just barely make out in the


strojirenstvi

picture that there is a vernier sort of relationship between 
the inner and outer teeth.

How many phases does it have for stator and rotor?

Jon



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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting motor construction

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 March 2019 08:39:21 andy pugh wrote:

> I have a servo motor acquisition problem, I tend to buy servo motors
> from eBay just because they are cheap.
> A recent (ish) acquisition was an NSK Megatorque (RS1010, which means
> 10" dia and 10" long)
> This is rated at 147Nm (108 lb f) torque and for an axial load of
> 9500N (2100lbf) so is quite a beast.
> Currently I am using it as a glorified protractor to calibrate a Faro
> arm. :-) https://photos.app.goo.gl/J3yhuhQ7e2vbjDLg8
> It has a very high-count encoder, thought he serial terminal connected
> to the drive only reports angle to 0.01 degrees.

I hope you got the driver for it with it. Dissecting that into a 
schematic might reveal some secrets. Likewise, I think I'd be looking 
for a way to get the encoders full resolution out of it as .01 degrees 
sounds a bit coarse.

I can't say anything else as I've never seen a critter like that, so I am 
curious too, Andy. My background in broadcasting rather demonstrates 
that simple things that Just Work are the general order so we don't get 
to see the exotic stuff unless theres nothing else to do the job.

> The motor is an odd shape, the output flange is a ring, and there is a
> static tube inside that. Looking around on the web I found:
> https://forum.strojirenstvi.cz/viewtopic.php?t=21057
> Which rather explains the odd shape. It seems to be a motor with two
> sets of coils.

Translating that site into our native tongue might be a good starting 
point. I tried to learn some Chech from my fav auto scrap yard dealer 
back in the '50's, but 60+ years has erased that now and I expect Joe is 
long gone by now too. I was 22ish and he was 50ish then. I was driving a 
52 Nash Ambassador and learning from his hints where another 100+ 
virtually free horsepower was hideing. I surprised many a hot rodded 
ford in their day with it. Speedo needle well past straight down (120 
was at about 4:30pm on the dial & still getting 19 mpg), I ran off and 
hid from anything I wanted to show how it was done. The only thing it 
didn't have to match was brakes. I hopelessly warped a couple sets of 
drums all around in gotta stop situations. Teeny little 9" stuff.

> There is a toothed rotor rather like a stepper motor, with a toothed
> inner stator.
>
> Is this a variable reluctance motor? Do the outer magnets simply
> magnetise the rotor, or would there be more teeth on the outside?

Tell us what you find Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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[Emc-users] Interesting motor construction

[andy pugh]

I have a servo motor acquisition problem, I tend to buy servo motors
from eBay just because they are cheap.
A recent (ish) acquisition was an NSK Megatorque (RS1010, which means
10" dia and 10" long)
This is rated at 147Nm (108 lb f) torque and for an axial load of
9500N (2100lbf) so is quite a beast.
Currently I am using it as a glorified protractor to calibrate a Faro arm. :-)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/J3yhuhQ7e2vbjDLg8
It has a very high-count encoder, thought he serial terminal connected
to the drive only reports angle to 0.01 degrees.

The motor is an odd shape, the output flange is a ring, and there is a
static tube inside that. Looking around on the web I found:
https://forum.strojirenstvi.cz/viewtopic.php?t=21057
Which rather explains the odd shape. It seems to be a motor with two
sets of coils.

There is a toothed rotor rather like a stepper motor, with a toothed
inner stator.

Is this a variable reluctance motor? Do the outer magnets simply
magnetise the rotor, or would there be more teeth on the outside?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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