Re: [Emc-users] Thinking about going off-line eventually.

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 15 April 2018 23:14:48 Chris Albertson wrote:

> The O.P. wants to run his central A/C off this.
>
> This means a CONTINOUS draw of 350 amps from a 12 volt battery.
>
> Think about that 350 amps.   This is going to be one friggin large
> bank of batteries and as much as I would like to say "go with LiPo" or
> some other exotic type. the COST would be horrific.  As it is a
> battery this size is going to cost between $15K and $20K using best
> value lead acid.
>
> Going off grid is really hard and EXPENSIVE.  But today the best
> solution is not off-grid.  It is a "grid tie" system.   This works
> because you don't need the $20,000 rack of batteries.   What you do is
> run off the wind and solar when it is available and off the grid power
> when wind/solar is not available.The grid acts just like a battery
> except it is free.   When you have excess power the local utility buys
> it from you.   The you buy it back at night when the solar cells don't
> work.   The effct is the same as owning a battery but you save 20
> grand.
>
And I already have a nat gas fired auto standby.

> OK if you want power during a utility power failure you do need a
> battery but you don't need a big one because you just live without the
> air conditioning so you do fine with 10% size battery bank

With the wifes copd, the AC is mandatory in a WV summer.  I've had it 
going some of the last 3 days already.

> Of if you are really worried about power failure buy a Toyota Prius. 
> A Prius has a gas engine and a really big generator that can power
> your entire house if you instal a 110VAC inverter.   A Prius gas tank
> is something like 10 gallons and will run your house for a couple
> days.  The gas engine come on and off as required to top off the
> battery.The Prius has a $9,000 battery that works well for
> powering a house for a day or so or for general tail gaiting.  A Prius
> is a LOT more powerful than a portable Honda generator.  I have one of
> these and the MPG rating is conservative at 50MPG.  It works well for
> doing to/from work too.

I've considered that too, but the cost of a new Prius is out of reach, 
and any used Prius is for sale because the battery is run out.

We have an older RAV4, a 2007, and its so low tech it thinks enabling the 
CC is engaging it. Lots of stuff its ECC could do but doesn't. Like tell 
you which tire is low. Right now I've got a bad sensor and I'm betting 
its the same one I had put in last fall ($80) as I've got 40+ psi in all 
5 tires, or did have last week, and the damned light is still on. Rusty 
steel wheels, I have to go around it with a air hose once a week. The 
steering feels like its got rusty ball joints and no lubricant between 
the steering wheel and the ground. The dealer tried to sell me a $400 
water pump 5 years back, I put about a qt of makeup antifreeze in it for 
the first time late last fall. I get trade-in offers of 4 grand against 
a new one all the time. The local dealer can't fix the dragging 
steering, but is all too willing to fix the high dollar stuff its never 
needed. I put $22,500 and a minivan trade-in in it when I bought it in 
2009 with 22k on it, It has less than 70k on it now, and has logged less 
than 250 miles since the missus broke a hip in Feb 2017. My kidneys can 
do farther than its 12 gallon gas tank so you know its getting under 20 
mpg yet its running as well as ever. So right now I might buy another 
toy if I needed a little car, but I sure wouldn't buy it from this 
dealer.

> On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 4:50 PM, jeremy youngs  
wrote:
> > > In the midst of this, I would stay away from lead acid , you can
> > > find ev take out batteries reasonable on fleabay, I recommend nimh
> > > if you can
> >
> > find
> >
> > > them as they require far less control than lipo .

They, nimh, also have a higher self discharge rate. you only get back 90% 
of what you put in at best.

> > > I have a xantrex 
> > > 2 k modified sine inverter that works very well and has a 100 amp
> > > 3 stage charger that is top. I also have several surplussed apc
> > > backup uninterruptible power supplies that make nice clean power,
> > > I have several 3k and a few 5k supplies. 2k in solar with xantrex
> > > pwm charge control. I will upgrade to a Morningstar mppt in the
> > > future. I also have a Lister diesel I wish to use to drive a 555
> > > jho alternator and regulated to 48 v
> >
If I went battery, I'd go on up to about 60 cells of LA. Or about 130v 
fully charged. We have quite efficient multi-kilowatt rated inverters 
already.

My grandfather was resourcefull. We had electric lights driven from a 
wincharger, on a farm 15 miles from "town" aka Winterset, in 1940. He'd 
setup a sturdy bench in the ice house, and had sold half his crop of 
corn and brought back from town 5 or 6 of the big glass telco LA 
battery's until he had 16 of them, and knob and ball wired the house for 
electric lights using 32 volt bulbs. Then when the 

Re: [Emc-users] Thinking about going off-line eventually.

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

Some States are absolutely nuts on ground source heat pump regulations. In 
Idaho there's no special regulations (AFAIK) on open loop ones. Take water in 
(from a well or city supply) and dump it in the open, down a storm drain or 
into a body of water, or put it down another well. Seems rife with 
possibilities for contamination. But if you want to install a closed loop 
system that *seals away* the working fluid from the environment and ground 
water, that's when you get into some complications. I think they have their 
regulation priorities backasswards.

Alternative/renewable energy setups tend to go about things in a 'one thing 
does all' system where all the energy is collected from one source (like a huge 
PV array) then stored in one place (a single, large, battery bank). then they 
have a complicated system to convert voltages and AC and DC etc to all the end 
uses.
To me that's just crazy. If you're using sun tracking (for PV or solar thermal) 
don't tap the energy for the tracking system from the collector. Install a 
small PV panel on each collector (or for small groups of them) so that the 
tracking power and control is completely independent from the main collection. 
Same for any liquid or gas pumping needs. Put in little PV panels to run each 
pump.
Split up the battery bank so there are sections optimized for each type of 
load, at least one optimized for lighting (which for off grid should all be low 
voltage LED) and one for the high power stuff like heating and cooking 
appliances. Then you won't end up running out of heating power by running the 
lights, or you'll still be able to nuke a burrito (and keep it frozen before 
nuking) even if you're out of light power. The different battery banks could be 
configured for easiest conversion to the needs of the loads drawing on them.

The energy collection could likewise be segmented to match each battery bank. 
Then you'll have a system that won't ALL go down if one critical component 
fails. If a sun tracker on one collector conks out, then that's *one* collector 
out while the rest still work. If the power converter for the light battery 
dies, then you're only out your lights instead of *everything*. Put all the 
components on a wall like this guy has his network equipment, label everything. 
Tour of my home network.

| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
Tour of my home network.

As requested by several viewers, I've made a little walk through of my home 
network. You get to see some other p...
 |

 |

 |




On Sunday, April 15, 2018, 10:05:56 PM MDT, jeremy youngs 
 wrote:  
 The biggest thing to do is to reduce the power needed , as to heating and
cooling gshp is the way to fly , and I'm in progress on that and it will
likely be linuxcnc controlled. As to 12 volt only temporary and mobile
systems should be 12 volt, that's why I'm at 48 and would go higher ify in
Stock equipment would allow, it's also why I will be running a 22 horse
Lister diesel.
I agree going off grid is hard , I have been at it 5 years. And can't
overstate reduction of necessary power is absolutely key.  
--
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Re: [Emc-users] Thinking about going off-line eventually.

[jeremy youngs]

The biggest thing to do is to reduce the power needed , as to heating and
cooling gshp is the way to fly , and I'm in progress on that and it will
likely be linuxcnc controlled. As to 12 volt only temporary and mobile
systems should be 12 volt, that's why I'm at 48 and would go higher ify in
Stock equipment would allow, it's also why I will be running a 22 horse
Lister diesel.
I agree going off grid is hard , I have been at it 5 years. And can't
overstate reduction of necessary power is absolutely key.

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018, 22:15 Chris Albertson 
wrote:

> The O.P. wants to run his central A/C off this.
>
> This means a CONTINOUS draw of 350 amps from a 12 volt battery.
>
> Think about that 350 amps.   This is going to be one friggin large bank of
> batteries and as much as I would like to say "go with LiPo" or some other
> exotic type. the COST would be horrific.  As it is a battery this size is
> going to cost between $15K and $20K using best value lead acid.
>
> Going off grid is really hard and EXPENSIVE.  But today the best solution
> is not off-grid.  It is a "grid tie" system.   This works because you don't
> need the $20,000 rack of batteries.   What you do is run off the wind and
> solar when it is available and off the grid power when wind/solar is not
> available.The grid acts just like a battery except it is free.   When
> you have excess power the local utility buys it from you.   The you buy it
> back at night when the solar cells don't work.   The effct is the same as
> owning a battery but you save 20 grand.
>
> OK if you want power during a utility power failure you do need a battery
> but you don't need a big one because you just live without the air
> conditioning so you do fine with 10% size battery bank
>
> Of if you are really worried about power failure buy a Toyota Prius.  A
> Prius has a gas engine and a really big generator that can power your
> entire house if you instal a 110VAC inverter.   A Prius gas tank is
> something like 10 gallons and will run your house for a couple days.  The
> gas engine come on and off as required to top off the battery.The Prius
> has a $9,000 battery that works well for powering a house for a day or so
> or for general tail gaiting.  A Prius is a LOT more powerful than a
> portable Honda generator.  I have one of these and the MPG rating is
> conservative at 50MPG.  It works well for doing to/from work too.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 4:50 PM, jeremy youngs 
> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > In the midst of this, I would stay away from lead acid , you can find
> ev
> > > take out batteries reasonable on fleabay, I recommend nimh if you can
> > find
> > > them as they require far less control than lipo . I have a xantrex 2 k
> > > modified sine inverter that works very well and has a 100 amp 3 stage
> > > charger that is top. I also have several surplussed apc backup
> > > uninterruptible power supplies that make nice clean power, I have
> several
> > > 3k and a few 5k supplies. 2k in solar with xantrex pwm charge control.
> I
> > > will upgrade to a Morningstar mppt in the future. I also have a Lister
> > > diesel I wish to use to drive a 555 jho alternator and regulated to 48
> v
> > .
> > > I have the stuff amassed and several components test but not
> installed, I
> > > try to gather a heap of parts then build. I will send a link to the
> > Arduino
> > > based generator control if you are interested.
> > 
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
--
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Re: [Emc-users] Thinking about going off-line eventually.

[Chris Albertson]

The O.P. wants to run his central A/C off this.

This means a CONTINOUS draw of 350 amps from a 12 volt battery.

Think about that 350 amps.   This is going to be one friggin large bank of
batteries and as much as I would like to say "go with LiPo" or some other
exotic type. the COST would be horrific.  As it is a battery this size is
going to cost between $15K and $20K using best value lead acid.

Going off grid is really hard and EXPENSIVE.  But today the best solution
is not off-grid.  It is a "grid tie" system.   This works because you don't
need the $20,000 rack of batteries.   What you do is run off the wind and
solar when it is available and off the grid power when wind/solar is not
available.The grid acts just like a battery except it is free.   When
you have excess power the local utility buys it from you.   The you buy it
back at night when the solar cells don't work.   The effct is the same as
owning a battery but you save 20 grand.

OK if you want power during a utility power failure you do need a battery
but you don't need a big one because you just live without the air
conditioning so you do fine with 10% size battery bank

Of if you are really worried about power failure buy a Toyota Prius.  A
Prius has a gas engine and a really big generator that can power your
entire house if you instal a 110VAC inverter.   A Prius gas tank is
something like 10 gallons and will run your house for a couple days.  The
gas engine come on and off as required to top off the battery.The Prius
has a $9,000 battery that works well for powering a house for a day or so
or for general tail gaiting.  A Prius is a LOT more powerful than a
portable Honda generator.  I have one of these and the MPG rating is
conservative at 50MPG.  It works well for doing to/from work too.



On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 4:50 PM, jeremy youngs  wrote:

> >
> > In the midst of this, I would stay away from lead acid , you can find ev
> > take out batteries reasonable on fleabay, I recommend nimh if you can
> find
> > them as they require far less control than lipo . I have a xantrex 2 k
> > modified sine inverter that works very well and has a 100 amp 3 stage
> > charger that is top. I also have several surplussed apc backup
> > uninterruptible power supplies that make nice clean power, I have several
> > 3k and a few 5k supplies. 2k in solar with xantrex pwm charge control. I
> > will upgrade to a Morningstar mppt in the future. I also have a Lister
> > diesel I wish to use to drive a 555 jho alternator and regulated to 48 v
> .
> > I have the stuff amassed and several components test but not installed, I
> > try to gather a heap of parts then build. I will send a link to the
> Arduino
> > based generator control if you are interested.
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
--
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Re: [Emc-users] Thinking about going off-line eventually.

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 15 April 2018 20:47:54 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Yes,  I have done this but not on a house.  I used to own a sailboat.
>
> First off if you need to run AC you are going to need to fill your
> garage with racks of batteries.
>
> Let's assume you have a smaller AC unit that only uses only 3,000
> watts dn you run it with a 50% duty cycle for 12 hours.  That is 18KWH
> per day.   A good pair of high quality golf cart batteries will give
> you 1.5KWH but that assumes you discharge them to full empty.  They
> will not last even one month if you do that.  50% discharge is the max
> you should do.  so that is 0.75KHZ.
>
> A good rule of thumb is to have on hand two days worth of battery
> power. so you need 2 x (18 / 0.75) = 48 pairs of batteries (each is 6
> volts)  Or lets just say 100.   The Trojan T105 is a great battery for
> the money.  at $160 each.   But the T125 will outlast if the about
> $200 each.  The battery farm will cost at least $16,000.00 and that is
> with not chargers and inverters.
>
> Ok so maybe you don't need to run A/C.   If yu just want to run a
> fridge and some light bulbs and maybe a TV or laptop computer you
> might do with a smaller battery farm.
>
> The BEST way to estimate the amount f power you need is to look at
> your electric bill and then divide it by the number of days.   Lets
> say you don't have A/C and use only 4KWH per day.   Then you need a
> battery bank that can give ou t 8KWH and and discharge to 50%.  You
> need a nominal 16KWH bank.   Using the T105 battery (lowest cost good
> option) you would need 20 of them for about $3,200.00
>
> To charge the batteries just figure how many hours the wind blows and
> and de-rate you wind mill by 2X.  if you need 4KWH per day as in the
> last example above then 16 of your $500 wind mill will be enough. 
> That is about $8,000.On't forget the electronics.   You might be
> able to build it out for $20K but yu don't run A/C on a small system
> like that.
>
> When I had the boats I could live with a LOT less power.  No
> refrigeration and just a few LED lights when at anchor.   I had 6 of
> the T125 batteries and one marine engine-start batteries for my 27HP
> diesel 3 cylinder engine. The engine has a 20A alternator that could
> supply up to 200W  and it would take hours to do any charging.
>
> The biggest recurring cost when you go off grid is battery life   a
> 50% charge discharge charge gives you 125 AH of current but a T105 can
> do this maybe 200 times before it is toast and they cost $160 each  
> So you have to pay $160 for 250,000 AH or 1.250 MWH   Or about 12
> cents per KWH for power. You will NOT save much over what the power
> company charges you.  With today's technology you can about break even
>
> There ARE better batteries but you pay a lot more up front for them. 
> The T105 is the best deal in cents per KWH over the battery life time.
>
> What I am waiting for is for the market to be flooded with junk
> electric cars.  A a few years all cars will be electric and then 20
> years after that used batteries will be dirt cheap.   No one wants a
> battery inter car that can only change to 1/2 of its new capacity for
> for your house having 10 oe 12 of those is a lot more then you need.
>
> Yes all cars will be electric.  Much or Europe, the UK, China,
> California and others already have a sales bad on new gas/diesel cars
> to take effect in 10 to 20 years.
>
> One more thing.   I was talking about Trojan T105 or T125.  These ar 6
> volt batteries but you would likey want to wire these up as a 24 or
> even36 or 48 volt DC system because it saves you ToN of money in
> copper wire.   A typical 12 volt system will use a lot of size 0 and
> 00 welding cable but at 48V you are using ## or #4   Why?   a 12 volt
> system for can entire hour might be 1,000 amps going into the
> inverter,

That puts it in a more practical light, the conclusion being that it 
might be practical in 20 years, but rather impractical ATM. But I won't 
be around in 20 years, maybe not even 5. So theres the answer, let the 
next owner do it.

Thanks Chris.

> On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 4:40 PM, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > I see Banggood has a 500 watt wind thingy for under $200 that net
> > folks are calling professional grade stuff. I am looking to put up
> > an anerometer to record the wind speeds, one of those 3 cups designs
> > that isn't direction sensitive, and one of these card computers to
> > log what it sees so as to get an idea who many of these 500 watt
> > things I'd need to keep a bank of truck batteries topped up while
> > running the house, including the AC.
> >
> > Has anyone else walked this trail, or do I have to start with a
> > machete?
> >
> > --
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page 

Re: [Emc-users] Thinking about going off-line eventually.

[Chris Albertson]

Yes,  I have done this but not on a house.  I used to own a sailboat.

First off if you need to run AC you are going to need to fill your garage
with racks of batteries.

Let's assume you have a smaller AC unit that only uses only 3,000 watts dn
you run it with a 50% duty cycle for 12 hours.  That is 18KWH per day.   A
good pair of high quality golf cart batteries will give you 1.5KWH but that
assumes you discharge them to full empty.  They will not last even one
month if you do that.  50% discharge is the max you should do.  so that is
0.75KHZ.

A good rule of thumb is to have on hand two days worth of battery power.
so you need 2 x (18 / 0.75) = 48 pairs of batteries (each is 6 volts)  Or
lets just say 100.   The Trojan T105 is a great battery for the money.  at
$160 each.   But the T125 will outlast if the about $200 each.  The battery
farm will cost at least $16,000.00 and that is with not chargers and
inverters.

Ok so maybe you don't need to run A/C.   If yu just want to run a fridge
and some light bulbs and maybe a TV or laptop computer you might do with a
smaller battery farm.

The BEST way to estimate the amount f power you need is to look at your
electric bill and then divide it by the number of days.   Lets say you
don't have A/C and use only 4KWH per day.   Then you need a battery bank
that can give ou t 8KWH and and discharge to 50%.  You need a nominal 16KWH
bank.   Using the T105 battery (lowest cost good option) you would need 20
of them for about $3,200.00

To charge the batteries just figure how many hours the wind blows and and
de-rate you wind mill by 2X.  if you need 4KWH per day as in the last
example above then 16 of your $500 wind mill will be enough.  That is about
$8,000.On't forget the electronics.   You might be able to build it out
for $20K but yu don't run A/C on a small system like that.

When I had the boats I could live with a LOT less power.  No refrigeration
and just a few LED lights when at anchor.   I had 6 of the T125 batteries
and one marine engine-start batteries for my 27HP diesel 3 cylinder engine.
  The engine has a 20A alternator that could supply up to 200W  and it
would take hours to do any charging.

The biggest recurring cost when you go off grid is battery life   a 50%
charge discharge charge gives you 125 AH of current but a T105 can do this
maybe 200 times before it is toast and they cost $160 each   So you have to
pay $160 for 250,000 AH or 1.250 MWH   Or about 12 cents per KWH for power.
   You will NOT save much over what the power company charges you.  With
today's technology you can about break even

There ARE better batteries but you pay a lot more up front for them.  The
T105 is the best deal in cents per KWH over the battery life time.

What I am waiting for is for the market to be flooded with junk electric
cars.  A a few years all cars will be electric and then 20 years after that
used batteries will be dirt cheap.   No one wants a battery inter car that
can only change to 1/2 of its new capacity for for your house having 10 oe
12 of those is a lot more then you need.

Yes all cars will be electric.  Much or Europe, the UK, China, California
and others already have a sales bad on new gas/diesel cars to take effect
in 10 to 20 years.

One more thing.   I was talking about Trojan T105 or T125.  These ar 6 volt
batteries but you would likey want to wire these up as a 24 or even36 or 48
volt DC system because it saves you ToN of money in copper wire.   A
typical 12 volt system will use a lot of size 0 and 00 welding cable but at
48V you are using ## or #4   Why?   a 12 volt system for can entire hour
might be 1,000 amps going into the inverter,

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 4:40 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> I see Banggood has a 500 watt wind thingy for under $200 that net folks
> are calling professional grade stuff. I am looking to put up an
> anerometer to record the wind speeds, one of those 3 cups designs that
> isn't direction sensitive, and one of these card computers to log what
> it sees so as to get an idea who many of these 500 watt things I'd need
> to keep a bank of truck batteries topped up while running the house,
> including the AC.
>
> Has anyone else walked this trail, or do I have to start with a machete?
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

Re: [Emc-users] Thinking about going off-line eventually.

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 15 April 2018 19:50:12 jeremy youngs wrote:

> > In the midst of this, I would stay away from lead acid , you can
> > find ev take out batteries reasonable on fleabay, I recommend nimh
> > if you can find them as they require far less control than lipo . I
> > have a xantrex 2 k modified sine inverter that works very well and
> > has a 100 amp 3 stage charger that is top. I also have several
> > surplussed apc backup uninterruptible power supplies that make nice
> > clean power, I have several 3k and a few 5k supplies. 2k in solar
> > with xantrex pwm charge control. I will upgrade to a Morningstar
> > mppt in the future. I also have a Lister diesel I wish to use to
> > drive a 555 jho alternator and regulated to 48 v . I have the stuff
> > amassed and several components test but not installed, I try to
> > gather a heap of parts then build. I will send a link to the Arduino
> > based generator control if you are interested.
>
One of the things I learned about was the care and feeding of large car 
batteries while I was tx supervisor at one of the Nebraska ETV sites 
back in the 70's. When I walked in the door, there was a 335 cummalong 
spinning a 150kw alternator that could run the place at around half 
power until the tank ran dry. It had 2 large car batteries that were 
contactor switched to 24 volts to spin this cummalong up.  But a year 
later those batteries were toast. On inspecting the standby charger, a 
10 amp rated 12 volt charger, which had a 56 ohm 2 watt current limiter, 
I found with fresh batteries was boiling them dry in a couple weeks. 
Replaced the resistor with a 470 ohm, still gassing pretty bad, so I 
went up to 2200 ohms. Still some gassing. At 5600 ohms, the gassing was 
just about eliminated. 7 years later, I had tossed a couple big si 
diodes across the resistor to speed up the recovery on general 
principles, and had turned the voltage regulator down to keep it from 
boiling the batteries if it ran for and hour or more. Those batteries 
were then 6 years old, and spun it fast enough that it was caught and 
running on the 2nd cylinder to hit tdc from wherever it stopped, just 
exactly as if they were new batteries.

Since, I've played around with LA batteries enough to learn that each 
battery has its own ideal maintenance voltage, that can vary at least 
half a volt from the textbook. And treated right, can last the life of 
the vehicle or more. Back before they put the regulator in the 
alternator and potted it up, I made several solid state regulators that 
were the last (except for light bulbs) electrical component touched on 
that vehicle. Each one had thermal comp so it was hit on the recharge 
after starting, with as high as 17.4 volts when it was -25 out, but 
which by the time the engine compartment was up to temps, was down to a 
hair +- of 13 volts. I never had to add water, and it would turn an 
engine full of 50w cmo at 20 below as if that engine had atf in the pan.

Just don't race it when its that cold as it takes 5 minutes or more to 
warm up that 50w cmo & get it moving. Forget and you'll hear con rods 
clattering to remind you. Now days of course we'd put 5w-20 in it and 
drop the hammer in 10 seconds.  We've now motors that can go a million 
or more miles, but we've still stuck with a 3 or 4 year battery. Now you 
know who to blame.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Thinking about going off-line eventually.

[jeremy youngs]

>
> In the midst of this, I would stay away from lead acid , you can find ev
> take out batteries reasonable on fleabay, I recommend nimh if you can find
> them as they require far less control than lipo . I have a xantrex 2 k
> modified sine inverter that works very well and has a 100 amp 3 stage
> charger that is top. I also have several surplussed apc backup
> uninterruptible power supplies that make nice clean power, I have several
> 3k and a few 5k supplies. 2k in solar with xantrex pwm charge control. I
> will upgrade to a Morningstar mppt in the future. I also have a Lister
> diesel I wish to use to drive a 555 jho alternator and regulated to 48 v .
> I have the stuff amassed and several components test but not installed, I
> try to gather a heap of parts then build. I will send a link to the Arduino
> based generator control if you are interested.
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[Emc-users] Thinking about going off-line eventually.

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

I see Banggood has a 500 watt wind thingy for under $200 that net folks 
are calling professional grade stuff. I am looking to put up an 
anerometer to record the wind speeds, one of those 3 cups designs that 
isn't direction sensitive, and one of these card computers to log what 
it sees so as to get an idea who many of these 500 watt things I'd need 
to keep a bank of truck batteries topped up while running the house, 
including the AC.

Has anyone else walked this trail, or do I have to start with a machete?
 
-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
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