Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[Jon Elson]

On 04/10/2019 08:42 PM, Tom Easterday wrote:

4 Sheldon lathes being sold in SE Michigan. Short notice but came across this 
by accident and I recalled this thread talking about Sheldon lathes...

https://toledo.craigslist.org/tls/d/temperance-14-sheldon-6-jaw-lathe/6853491715.html

I didn't see 4, but this one is an early model Sheldon R-13 
(13"). Quite heavy duty machine, I have a late model R-15. (15")


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[Tom Easterday]

4 Sheldon lathes being sold in SE Michigan. Short notice but came across this 
by accident and I recalled this thread talking about Sheldon lathes...

https://toledo.craigslist.org/tls/d/temperance-14-sheldon-6-jaw-lathe/6853491715.html
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Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[Jon Elson]

On 01/30/2019 06:35 PM, Dan Bloomquist wrote:



I would have preferred a shorter bed, but it is what I 
could afford. It looks like Jon's is a 5 footer, I think 
mine is a 6. These things came in 5,6, and 8 feet.
I also have a 6 foot bed.  That works out fine, NEVER needed 
any more on my projects.


BTW, Jon, I have the parts manual. If you don't have 
yours, I'll pdf mine and share it.


The back of the manual has all the parts drawings.  The 
parts list are not much use anymore, but John Knox of the 
Sheldon list on Groups-io has all the cross reference info 
of where to CURRENTLY get parts for the machines, which is 
invaluable!


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[Jon Elson]

On 01/30/2019 12:35 PM, Dan Bloomquist wrote:

Jon Elson wrote:


There's plenty more to it, but those are a few of the 
highlights. The Sheldon R-series was made in 13, 15 and 
17" models.  My 15" with six foot bed weighs 3500 Lbs.  
Good for stability.  My previous lathe was a 12" 
Atlas-Craftsman.  The difference in rigidity is just 
AMAZING!   See http://pico-systems.com/sheldon.html  for 
the whole saga of getting it moved in and fixed up.



Hi Jon,
Wow, who would of thought? I bought the same lathe(15) in 
an auction last year. The reason for building that rotary 
converter. Here it is!



Yes, same for me. I had a toy lathe and really learned 
that rigid was very important. I researched before bidding 
and word was that this is about as good as it gets.
There are certainly a few other lathes in a similar class.  
LeBlond tray-top, Monarch, and some of the other 
toolroom-grade machines. Since the standard version has a 
1250 RPM spindle speed, and a 2.5" spindle through hole, it 
seemed like it would do most anything I'd come across.


Looks like you have the high-speed version.

I run mine off a VFD with braking resistor, this gives me a 
pretty quick dynamically-braked stop, which I like for 
safety reasons.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[Dan Bloomquist]

andy pugh wrote:

On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 19:19, Dan Bloomquist  wrote:

Yes, same for me. I had a toy lathe and really learned that rigid was

very important. I researched before bidding and word was that this is
about as good as it gets.


I think that my little Minor might win on the "disproportionately deep and
wide bed" scale.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SxY7Qu35Xw5etDu99


Yes Andy, I must agree. That thing looks like you could not even measure 
any twist!


I would have preferred a shorter bed, but it is what I could afford. It 
looks like Jon's is a 5 footer, I think mine is a 6. These things came 
in 5,6, and 8 feet.


BTW, Jon, I have the parts manual. If you don't have yours, I'll pdf 
mine and share it.


Best, Dan.



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Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 19:19, Dan Bloomquist  wrote:

Yes, same for me. I had a toy lathe and really learned that rigid was
> very important. I researched before bidding and word was that this is
> about as good as it gets.


I think that my little Minor might win on the "disproportionately deep and
wide bed" scale.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SxY7Qu35Xw5etDu99

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[Dan Bloomquist]

Jon Elson wrote:


There's plenty more to it, but those are a few of the highlights. The 
Sheldon R-series was made in 13, 15 and 17" models.  My 15" with six 
foot bed weighs 3500 Lbs.  Good for stability.  My previous lathe was 
a 12" Atlas-Craftsman.  The difference in rigidity is just AMAZING!   
See http://pico-systems.com/sheldon.html  for the whole saga of 
getting it moved in and fixed up.



Hi Jon,
Wow, who would of thought? I bought the same lathe(15) in an auction 
last year. The reason for building that rotary converter. Here it is!



Yes, same for me. I had a toy lathe and really learned that rigid was 
very important. I researched before bidding and word was that this is 
about as good as it gets.

Best, Dan.



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Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[Jon Elson]

On 01/29/2019 08:46 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 16:16, Jon Elson  wrote:

  The spindle is
driven by triple matched belts, to keep gear vibration out
of the headstock.  The input pulley is coaxial to the
spindle, but does not run ON the spindle,


Another, new today on lathes.co.uk with a similar idea

http://www.lathes.co.uk/wermelinger/

(Yes, I do check that site for new lathes every day)

Wow, the Wermelinger is truly Art-Deco!  They don't make 
machines like THAT anymore.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 16:16, Jon Elson  wrote:
>  The spindle is

> driven by triple matched belts, to keep gear vibration out
> of the headstock.  The input pulley is coaxial to the
> spindle, but does not run ON the spindle,


Another, new today on lathes.co.uk with a similar idea

http://www.lathes.co.uk/wermelinger/

(Yes, I do check that site for new lathes every day)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 28 January 2019 14:14:06 andy pugh wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 17:18, Jon Elson 
> wrote:
>
> I didn't quite understand this description,
>
>
> Here is a picture.
> Note that the cross feed handle has two sets of dovetails, one above
> the handle and one below.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/80180751@N02/31932638307
>
> So the entire feed handle moves in and out with the taper turning
> slide and then the cross-slide moves on top of that.

Thats neat, and likely a heck of a lot more serviceable than the sheldon 
jury rigged setup. I like!

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 28 January 2019 12:17:03 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 01/28/2019 04:28 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> > One oddity from Holbrook that I have not seen elsewhere
> > (and isn't actually a feature of the H17 in the original
> > advert) is a double dovetail on the cross slide. There is
> > a part rather like a butterfly shape, fitting into a
> > female dovetail in the saddle and another female dovetail
> > in the cross slide. The cross slide nut is mounted in this
> > dovetail, and normally it is rigidly bolted to the saddle
> > by a conical bolt. But you can move that conical bolt to
> > the taper-turning slide, and then you have completely
> > independent taper and cross slide motion. (with typical
> > taper-turning systems you have to use the compound slide
> > to adjust the cut)
> > http://www.lathes.co.uk/holbrook-B-13-71-21/ It is curious
> > that the Sheldon R series is absent from lathes.co.uk, but
> > then so is the Holbrook H series.
>
> I didn't quite understand this description, but if you have
> a taper attachment on the Sheldon R-series, it is a
> "telescopic" taper attachment.  So, the crossfeed screw ADDS
> an adjustment to the taper attachment.  I think this is what
> you might be referring to.  I think a number of larger
> toolroom lathes have this feature.  I think on the Sheldon,
> you just turn two handles to switch how the nuts are
> clamped, you don't have to move a bolt.  (Wish I had the
> taper attachment on my lathe!  I could probably build one,
> but I haven't because I might CNC it "someday".
>
> Jon
>
I'd offer you mine Jon, but I suspect its too small for your bigun, as 
mine is an 11 by, and I kept the crossfeeds long cover section, filling 
the top slot to swarf proof my x screw, filled the bottom of the 
carriage too so the air hose can't blow swarf up out of the pan I put 
under the ways to catch most of the swarf in. The drive nut will have to 
be made new anyway, someone had helicoiled it, and it was worn to about 
85 thou of backlash, another 5 thou and it would have been stripped 
again. Anmasingly. the screw isn't hurt!
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 17:18, Jon Elson  wrote:

I didn't quite understand this description,


Here is a picture.
Note that the cross feed handle has two sets of dovetails, one above the
handle and one below.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/80180751@N02/31932638307

So the entire feed handle moves in and out with the taper turning slide and
then the cross-slide moves on top of that.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[Jon Elson]

On 01/28/2019 04:28 AM, andy pugh wrote:
One oddity from Holbrook that I have not seen elsewhere 
(and isn't actually a feature of the H17 in the original 
advert) is a double dovetail on the cross slide. There is 
a part rather like a butterfly shape, fitting into a 
female dovetail in the saddle and another female dovetail 
in the cross slide. The cross slide nut is mounted in this 
dovetail, and normally it is rigidly bolted to the saddle 
by a conical bolt. But you can move that conical bolt to 
the taper-turning slide, and then you have completely 
independent taper and cross slide motion. (with typical 
taper-turning systems you have to use the compound slide 
to adjust the cut) 
http://www.lathes.co.uk/holbrook-B-13-71-21/ It is curious 
that the Sheldon R series is absent from lathes.co.uk, but 
then so is the Holbrook H series. 
I didn't quite understand this description, but if you have 
a taper attachment on the Sheldon R-series, it is a 
"telescopic" taper attachment.  So, the crossfeed screw ADDS 
an adjustment to the taper attachment.  I think this is what 
you might be referring to.  I think a number of larger 
toolroom lathes have this feature.  I think on the Sheldon, 
you just turn two handles to switch how the nuts are 
clamped, you don't have to move a bolt.  (Wish I had the 
taper attachment on my lathe!  I could probably build one, 
but I haven't because I might CNC it "someday".


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[Jon Elson]

On 01/28/2019 04:28 AM, andy pugh wrote:
It is curious that the Sheldon R series is absent from 
lathes.co.uk, but then so is the Holbrook H series. 
They were not made in great numbers, although I have seen 2 
others in shops.  One was at

Washtenaw Community College, where we had a few CNC Workshops.

There was an early R-series (before roughly 1968) that was 
much less sophisticated (no separate feed driveshaft, 
standard "Rockwell" style QC box, and the late R-series that 
had the feed shaft and the 80-speed QC.  Both had a really 
impressive headstock about the size of a V-8 engine block, 
with a 2.5" spindle through hole.  Several spindle mounts 
were available, mine has a D1-6.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 16:16, Jon Elson  wrote:


>  The input pulley is coaxial to the
> spindle, but does not run ON the spindle, it has its own set
> of bearings in the headstock, so as to not impart any
> vibration to the spindle.


This was quite popular as an idea at one point, though seems to have fallen
from favour later on
http://www.lathes.co.uk/cromwell/  and  http://www.lathes.co.uk/weiler/ are
other examples.

One oddity from Holbrook that I have not seen elsewhere (and isn't actually
a feature of the H17 in the original advert) is a double dovetail on the
cross slide.
There is a part rather like a butterfly shape, fitting into a female
dovetail in the saddle and another female dovetail in the cross slide. The
cross slide nut is mounted in this dovetail, and normally it is rigidly
bolted to the saddle by a conical bolt.
But you can move that conical bolt to the taper-turning slide, and then you
have completely independent taper and cross slide motion. (with typical
taper-turning systems you have to use the compound slide to adjust the cut)
http://www.lathes.co.uk/holbrook-B-13-71-21/

It is curious that the Sheldon R series is absent from lathes.co.uk, but
then so is the Holbrook H series.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[Erik Christiansen]

On 26.01.19 14:22, andy pugh wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 05:39, andy pugh  wrote:
> 
> > https://www.gumtree.com.au/
> > 
> >
> 
> Actually, it is Western Australia isn't it?  The clue was in the URL

Yup. When I clicked on it, an email message was preloaded for sending
"I'm interested ... when can I pick it up?." Only thing is it's over
3000 km from the east coast to the west, so even being in the same
country isn't enough for it to be viable - especially as a return trip.

Erik
(Who survived the 45°C (113°F) we had on Friday - fortunately a peak for
hereabouts, though fairly common inland this summer, with peaks of 48.9°C
(120°F). And fortunately the fires are burning in very sparsely peopled
patches, so only those on the back blocks take much notice.))


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Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[Jon Elson]

On 01/27/2019 09:48 AM, Mark Johnsen wrote:

My 15" with six foot bed weighs 3500 Lbs.  Good for
stability.  My previous lathe was a 12" Atlas-Craftsman.
The difference in rigidity is just AMAZING!   See
http://pico-systems.com/sheldon.html  for the whole saga of
getting it moved in and fixed up.


I don't think I've seen those pictures before.   That was quite an
operation.  Both with getting the lathe into place (forklift tracks) and
then your grinding.  Looks awesome.  Andy should be very happy with your
lathe choice:-)

Yup, this was a CRAZY adventure, and cost me my back!  (I 
tore something there while trying to pull a 24 x 36" surface 
plate out of the back of my car.  DUMB!!!)  But, I learned a 
lot about machine rebuilding doing it, and the machine is 
totally awesome!


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[Jon Elson]

On 01/25/2019 11:39 PM, andy pugh wrote:

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/picton/miscellaneous-goods/metal-working-lathe/1202880018?utm_source=Gmail_medium=social_campaign=socialbuttons_content=app_android

Holbrook H20 / H17 at a guess. Absolutely top class lathe. Maybe the best,
I would be interested to hear of other candidates in that envelope. DSG
obviously. Graziano might be in with a shout. The USA folk are probably
shouting "Monarch" though this is a bit bigger.

There's also the late Sheldon R-series.  It has a whole 
BUNCH of features to improve the quality of the work.  So, 
the spindle gearbox is in the pedestal, and the only gears 
in the headstock are for the backgear.  The spindle is 
driven by triple matched belts, to keep gear vibration out 
of the headstock.  The input pulley is coaxial to the 
spindle, but does not run ON the spindle, it has its own set 
of bearings in the headstock, so as to not impart any 
vibration to the spindle.  It drives the spindle (in high 
speed mode) through a pair of hand-lapped drive dogs, so as 
to not put an imbalanced torque on the spindle.


The QC box has 80 speeds, operated by two wheels full of 
gears on needle roller bearings.
WAY more complicated than a car transmission.  The power 
feeds are driven by a keyed shaft which is driven by 
U-joints, so as not to deliver any radial thrust to the 
apron.  They also drive the carriage and crossfeed through 
clutches, not gears.  The clutch break-away force is 
adjustable, so you can be sure in a crash it will not break 
gears.


The power feed and threading feed are engaged by pulling up 
on levers that lock in place.
To release the feed, you just tap the lever downward and the 
lock drops out, the lever drops and the feed is disengaged.  
I have done threading of fairly coarse threads at 900 RPM 
with no worries at all, you can stop the feed right where 
you want to.


There's plenty more to it, but those are a few of the 
highlights. The Sheldon R-series was made in 13, 15 and 17" 
models.  My 15" with six foot bed weighs 3500 Lbs.  Good for 
stability.  My previous lathe was a 12" Atlas-Craftsman.  
The difference in rigidity is just AMAZING!   See 
http://pico-systems.com/sheldon.html  for the whole saga of 
getting it moved in and fixed up.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 05:39, andy pugh  wrote:

> https://www.gumtree.com.au/
> 
>

Actually, it is Western Australia isn't it?  The clue was in the URL

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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