[Emu] Comments on the eap-tunnel-method-00 draft

2011-10-17 Thread Jim Schaad
I have gathered these comments over time and therefore some of them are not fully fleshed out. If you have any questions I will try and reconstruct my ideas at the time. Jim Version Negotiation - terminate the conversation - w or w/o a fail? Edge case - what if peer only supports a

Re: [Emu] Comments on the eap-tunnel-method-00 draft

2011-10-19 Thread Jim Schaad
-Original Message- From: Hao Zhou [mailto:hz...@cisco.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 12:31 PM To: Jim Schaad; draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-met...@tools.ietf.org Cc: emu@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Emu] Comments on the eap-tunnel-method-00 draft Jim: Thanks for reviewing

Re: [Emu] Submitted 10

2011-10-21 Thread Jim Schaad
I want to make sure that we have distinguished between the two statements 1. The server says that I don't support these specific attributes and 2. The server does not tell me that it did or did not do matching of some attributes. The first I think is totally optional, but the second is

Re: [Emu] REMINDER: WGLC for draft-ietf-emu-chbind-09

2011-10-23 Thread Jim Schaad
* In section 5.1 (para 3) - The following sentence does not make sense to me. Message i2 is the information the AAA server receives from the last hop in the AAA proxy chain which is not necessarily the authenticator. Specifically I do not follow the last clause and what it is referring to.

[Emu] Channel Bindings Document

2011-11-17 Thread Jim Schaad
I should probably read it when I am not so tired and distracted, however I believe that all of my issues have been addressed in the last version Jim ___ Emu mailing list Emu@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu

Re: [Emu] draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method 7.6: inadequate for interoperable implementation

2012-02-18 Thread Jim Schaad
There is one other item that is also worrying me about this. In doing the check of certificates, one should be doing revocation checking. However if one is trying to get network access, one cannot independently download the revocation information until access is granted, and one cannot get access

Re: [Emu] draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method 7.6: inadequate for interoperable implementation

2012-02-18 Thread Jim Schaad
TLS can present an OCSP response for the end certificate, if you have TA-CA1-EE then you can't get it for the CA1 certificate. Jim -Original Message- From: Sam Hartman [mailto:hartmans-i...@mit.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 11:28 AM To: Jim Schaad Cc: 'Sam Hartman'; emu

[Emu] Comments on draft-hartman-emu-mutual-crypto-bind

2012-03-20 Thread Jim Schaad
Sam et al, 1. In section 1 after the Classic Tunnel Attack figure, I believe there are three methods listed as possible mitigation strategies, however I don't understand how the second one - a sufficiently strong inner method - could possibly be a mitigation by itself. The three I see are 1)

[Emu] Comments on emu-eap-tunnel-method-02

2012-03-21 Thread Jim Schaad
1. After the first exchange of messages, if the version does not match the agreed on version - what happens? 2. Section 3.2 says that one should be able to do a renegotiate for getting the peers identity certificate. Do the following points need to be made? a) If you are doing a re-negotiation

Re: [Emu] Comments on emu-eap-tunnel-method-02

2012-03-21 Thread Jim Schaad
Schaad; draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-met...@tools.ietf.org Cc: emu@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Emu] Comments on emu-eap-tunnel-method-02 Jim: Thanks for the detailed review. My comments are below inline: On 3/21/12 6:15 AM, Jim Schaad i...@augustcellars.com wrote: 1. After the first exchange

[Emu] Multiple Request Action Items

2012-03-31 Thread Jim Schaad
In the presentation you stated that the plan was to make the TLVs that are requested become a sub TLV of the request TLV items. If that is true, then should it be possible to allow for multiple request TLVs to be present in a message. Thus one could say: Please do A - and if not then fail

Re: [Emu] Multiple Request Action Items

2012-04-02 Thread Jim Schaad
of the requested items has been processed and the server has signaled it wants to end the EAP conversation. Jim -Original Message- From: emu-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:emu-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Hao Zhou Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 4:29 AM To: Jim Schaad; draft-ietf-emu-eap

[Emu] Delegation

2012-04-18 Thread Jim Schaad
In the Plasma work effort we have spent much of the last month thinking about and doing some discussions on the question of delegated access. In the process we have located the following SAML document http://docs.oasis-open.org/security/saml/Post2.0/sstc-saml-delegation-cs-01. pdf which

[Emu] Review - draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method-00

2012-09-25 Thread Jim Schaad
Version 0 of the document is not ready for a last call as security considerations are missing. Other comments 1. I think in figure #1, there would be improved clarity if the line for Pear initiates connection to a service would have the following under the attacker line --|-- to indicate that

[Emu] Review - draft-ietf-emu-crypto-bind-00.txt

2012-09-28 Thread Jim Schaad
-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jim Schaad Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 9:11 PM To: emu@ietf.org Subject: [Emu] Review - draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method-00 Version 0 of the document is not ready for a last call as security considerations are missing. Other comments 1. I think

[Emu] Review of draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method-00

2012-09-28 Thread Jim Schaad
1. In section 3.2.3, it says that a new PAC can be requested after a full TLS handshake. Can one be requested following an abbreviated handshake? Or do you just re-use the existing PAC? 2. Section 3.3 s/descried/described/ 3. Section 3.4 - Is it possible to have multiple server ids after

[Emu] IMSK derivation issue

2012-09-29 Thread Jim Schaad
I agree that the IMSK needs to take into account the existence of the EMSK, however the current text has a severe problem with the way that it is done. It assumes that if the EMSK is exportable on one side, then it will be exportable on the other side as well. I don't believe this is the case.

[Emu] More comments for eap-tunnel-method

2012-09-30 Thread Jim Schaad
1. Should the Message Length field be present if the TLS Data field is absent? 2. There is nothing to say which TLVs can and cannot occur in the Outer TLVs in any easily findable method. Either a table or the string outer in descriptions would be helpful. As an example, does the Authority-ID

[Emu] Client Auth with TLS

2012-10-03 Thread Jim Schaad
This issue is one that I was dealing with while driving grapes back from the vineyard yesterday. I don't know that it needs to have any changes in the draft. I am putting this out to see if there is any controversy on the decisions that I would make about this issue. The client is going to use

Re: [Emu] Client Auth with TLS

2012-10-07 Thread Jim Schaad
Stefan, Thanks for the input. For the authors, Does this need to be documented as a mode of operation for TEAP or are we going to say that this is not a supported mode? Jim -Original Message- From: emu-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:emu-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stefan Winter

Re: [Emu] More COmments 2 on eap-tunnel-method

2012-10-07 Thread Jim Schaad
-Original Message- From: Hao Zhou (hzhou) [mailto:hz...@cisco.com] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 3:06 PM To: Jim Schaad; emu@ietf.org; draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel- met...@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Emu] More COmments 2 on eap-tunnel-method Jim: Please see comments below

Re: [Emu] More comments for eap-tunnel-method

2012-10-07 Thread Jim Schaad
-Original Message- From: Hao Zhou (hzhou) [mailto:hz...@cisco.com] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 2:56 PM To: Jim Schaad; emu@ietf.org; draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel- met...@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Emu] More comments for eap-tunnel-method Jim: Thanks for the review. Please

Re: [Emu] IMSK derivation issue

2012-10-07 Thread Jim Schaad
I have no problems with adding the Policy steps to the processing. From: Hao Zhou (hzhou) [mailto:hz...@cisco.com] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 8:56 PM To: Jim Schaad; emu@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Emu] IMSK derivation issue Jim: Thanks for pointing out this issue. How about

Re: [Emu] More comments for eap-tunnel-method

2012-10-09 Thread Jim Schaad
09, 2012 11:43 AM To: Jim Schaad; emu@ietf.org; draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel- met...@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Emu] More comments for eap-tunnel-method Jim: Please see comments inline below. On 10/8/12 1:11 AM, Jim Schaad i...@augustcellars.com wrote: -Original Message

Re: [Emu] More comments for eap-tunnel-method

2012-10-09 Thread Jim Schaad
-Original Message- From: Hao Zhou (hzhou) [mailto:hz...@cisco.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 12:46 PM To: Jim Schaad; emu@ietf.org; draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel- met...@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Emu] More comments for eap-tunnel-method That is the current thinking

Re: [Emu] Review of draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method-00

2012-10-10 Thread Jim Schaad
I think that picks up all of my current comments. Looking forward to seeing the draft update. Jim From: Hao Zhou (hzhou) [mailto:hz...@cisco.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:15 AM To: Jim Schaad Cc: emu@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Emu] Review of draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method-00

[Emu] TEAP Comments

2012-11-07 Thread Jim Schaad
I just wanted to make sure that the mail list had at least the basics of what I mentioned in the f2f today 1. The document does not appear to have an indicator that the EMSK was or was not used to generate a confirmation value. I have not done a final check that this is true but I did try and

Re: [Emu] TEAP Comments

2012-11-15 Thread Jim Schaad
. I don't think point 3 below needs expansion, but I may be too close to it. If you disagree please let me know. Jim -Original Message- From: emu-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:emu-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jim Schaad Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 4:48 PM To: emu@ietf.org

[Emu] FW: Last call comments on emu-eap-tunnel-method-05

2013-02-21 Thread Jim Schaad
-Original Message- From: Jim Schaad [mailto:jim...@augustcellars.com] Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 1:10 PM To: draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-met...@tools.ietf.org Cc: emu@ietf.org Subject: Last call comments on emu-eap-tunnel-method-05 I have no comments that I would consider

Re: [Emu] crypto binding: why did I want a survey of methods

2013-02-24 Thread Jim Schaad
[mailto:hartmans-i...@mit.edu] Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 10:56 AM To: Jim Schaad Cc: 'Sam Hartman'; emu@ietf.org; draft-ietf-emu-crypto- bind...@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Emu] crypto binding: why did I want a survey of methods Hi. I've included a survey of tunnel methods that have

Re: [Emu] Comments on draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method

2013-02-27 Thread Jim Schaad
Sam, My responses are inline. May not agree with the authors however. Jim -Original Message- From: emu-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:emu-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sam Hartman Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:47 PM To: emu@ietf.org Subject: [Emu] Comments on

Re: [Emu] Comments on draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method

2013-03-04 Thread Jim Schaad
-Original Message- From: Sam Hartman [mailto:hartmans-i...@mit.edu] Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 6:19 PM To: Joseph Salowey (jsalowey) Cc: Sam Hartman; Jim Schaad; emu@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Emu] Comments on draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method Joseph == Joseph Salowey (jsalowey

[Emu] Comments on draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method-05 - Set #2

2013-03-04 Thread Jim Schaad
I have been doing my best not to send this message but it has finally slipped out. I keep wondering if we need to do something much more explicit in terms of both identifying and purposing the certificates that are being used for this method. Question #1 - Do we expect that the client

Re: [Emu] Stephen Farrell's Discuss on draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

2013-11-08 Thread Jim Schaad
Looking for a piece of information. Are there cases in TLS before 1.3 where the PRF and the MAC are not inferred from the cipher suite that was negotiated? I think it would be surprising if the cipher suite was not obtainable. The question would be if these are ever independent of the suite

Re: [Emu] salted EAP-pwd

2014-09-30 Thread Jim Schaad
I can see two problems right off the bat. 1. It does not allow me to use a different salted method for different people so I can upgrade by salt function piecemeal. 2. It does not allow me to do both SASLprep and salting on the same password. Jim -Original Message- From: Emu

Re: [Emu] Call for adoption of draft-arkko-eap-rfc5448bis-01.txt

2018-05-29 Thread Jim Schaad
It is on my long list of documents to review > -Original Message- > From: Emu On Behalf Of Mohit Sethi > Sent: Monday, May 28, 2018 11:54 PM > To: Alan DeKok ; Joseph Salowey > > Cc: emu@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Emu] Call for adoption of draft-arkko-eap-rfc5448bis-01.txt > > I will

Re: [Emu] EAP-TLS with large certificates

2018-01-19 Thread Jim Schaad
There are already a couple of things in TLS 1.3 that can be used to address some of these issues From: Emu [mailto:emu-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernard Aboba Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 9:46 AM To: emu@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Emu] EAP-TLS with large certificates Alan DeKok said:

Re: [Emu] WGLC for draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis

2018-11-09 Thread Jim Schaad
Any issues that I have here might have already been raised and discussed. If so just not that and ignore. Section 3.4 - I am curious why you did not make the hash function a property of the HKDF function rather than making it a hard coded value. I would kind of expect that section 3.4 (top)

Re: [Emu] WGLC for draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis

2018-11-14 Thread Jim Schaad
> -Original Message- > From: Jari Arkko > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 9:47 AM > To: Jim Schaad > Cc: emu@ietf.org; draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448...@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Emu] WGLC for draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis > > Thanks for your review, Jim. > >

Re: [Emu] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-03.txt

2018-11-14 Thread Jim Schaad
> -Original Message- > From: Emu On Behalf Of Cappalli, Tim (Aruba > Security) > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 6:49 AM > To: Alan DeKok > Cc: emu@ietf.org; John Mattsson > Subject: Re: [Emu] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-emu-eap- > tls13-03.txt > > The question was

Re: [Emu] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-03.txt

2018-11-14 Thread Jim Schaad
m: Emu On Behalf Of Jim Schaad > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 10:35 AM > To: 'Cappalli, Tim (Aruba Security)' ; 'Alan DeKok' > > Cc: emu@ietf.org; 'John Mattsson' > Subject: Re: [Emu] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-emu-eap- > tls13-03.txt > > > > &

Re: [Emu] Review of draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-04

2019-03-21 Thread Jim Schaad
> -Original Message- > From: John Mattsson > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2019 8:56 AM > To: Jim Schaad ; draft-ietf-emu-eap-tl...@ietf.org > Cc: 'EMU WG' > Subject: Re: Review of draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-04 > > Thanks for the thorough review Jim! > > ---

Re: [Emu] Notes on session resumption with TLS-based EAP methods

2019-03-10 Thread Jim Schaad
I would totally agree that this type of guidance needs to be added to this document. Jim > -Original Message- > From: Alan DeKok > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 5:58 AM > To: Jim Schaad > Cc: Michael Richardson ; EMU WG > > Subject: Re: [Emu] Notes on session resu

Re: [Emu] Notes on session resumption with TLS-based EAP methods

2019-03-08 Thread Jim Schaad
I am finally getting caught up on this thread and I have found it to be very frustrating because it appears to make an assumption which I do not believe is warranted. I do not see any problems with allowing TLS session to be used across different types of EAP assuming that EAP correctly checks

[Emu] Review of draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-04

2019-03-20 Thread Jim Schaad
General Comment: I have a strong tendency to like positive rather than negative statements in documents, thus the use of MUST rather than MUST NOT. Additionally, I have a general tendency to like to know what should happen if a statement is violated. Thus consider the following from section

Re: [Emu] Notes on session resumption with TLS-based EAP methods

2019-03-09 Thread Jim Schaad
> -Original Message- > From: Emu On Behalf Of Michael Richardson > Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2019 3:51 PM > To: 'EMU WG' > Subject: Re: [Emu] Notes on session resumption with TLS-based EAP > methods > > > Jim Schaad wrote: > > I am finally getti

[Emu] POST WGLC Comments draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13

2019-08-03 Thread Jim Schaad
I am just finally getting caught up on mail for the EMU WG and am getting this done. It should probably be clarified that Figure 1has the additional restriction that the server is not sending any resumption tickets as well.It would also be better to label the TLS Application Data as the

Re: [Emu] POST WGLC Comments draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13

2019-09-19 Thread Jim Schaad
I am going to come down on the side of no PSK should not be supported. However my issues have nothing to do with how things are implemented and more to do with the security properties of the EAP method. When you use certificates, there is no leakage of who the client is as this is encrypted by

Re: [Emu] WGLC completed for for draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-05

2019-07-28 Thread Jim Schaad
for the server based on a really fast read. Jim -Original Message- From: Jouni Malinen Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2019 12:58 PM To: John Mattsson Cc: Alan DeKok ; Jim Schaad ; EMU WG Subject: Re: [Emu] WGLC completed for for draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-05 On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 10:49:40AM

Re: [Emu] Proposal: SASL over EAP

2020-04-22 Thread Jim Schaad
-Original Message- From: Emu On Behalf Of Rick van Rein Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 12:52 AM To: Alan DeKok Cc: EMU WG Subject: Re: [Emu] Proposal: SASL over EAP Hi Alan / EMU, I'll try to talk to Paul @ SURF about Diameter <--> RADIUS; he runs Eduroam and I think he has

Re: [Emu] Commitment Message handling in EAP-TLS 1.3

2020-08-01 Thread Jim Schaad
-Original Message- From: Alan DeKok Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 6:53 AM To: Jim Schaad Cc: Mohit Sethi M ; EMU WG ; Benjamin Kaduk Subject: Re: [Emu] Commitment Message handling in EAP-TLS 1.3 On Jul 31, 2020, at 12:30 PM, Jim Schaad wrote: > > Ok – so this issue was

Re: [Emu] Commitment Message handling in EAP-TLS 1.3

2020-08-04 Thread Jim Schaad
: Alan DeKok Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 10:16 AM To: Jorge Vergara Cc: Jim Schaad ; Mohit Sethi M ; EMU WG ; Benjamin Kaduk Subject: Re: [Emu] Commitment Message handling in EAP-TLS 1.3 On Aug 3, 2020, at 2:23 PM, Jorge Vergara wrote: > > ACK that EAP-TLS does not need to keep the conn

Re: [Emu] Commitment Message handling in EAP-TLS 1.3

2020-07-31 Thread Jim Schaad
vague memory that there was an OpenSSL problem involved here but I would not swear to that. You might be a better description either from John Mattsson or Jouni. From: Mohit Sethi M Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 7:09 AM To: emu@ietf.org Cc: Benjamin Kaduk ; Jim Schaad ; Eric Rescorla

Re: [Emu] Finishing draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 - Commitment Message handling

2020-07-13 Thread Jim Schaad
My expectation would be that the third option from Hannes is what should be done. The commit message should be encrypted and not a plain text message. Jim From: Mohit Sethi M Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 10:44 AM To: emu@ietf.org Cc: Jim Schaad ; Alan DeKok ; j...@w1.fi; Roman

Re: [Emu] Finishing draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 - Commitment Message handling

2020-07-14 Thread Jim Schaad
From: Emu On Behalf Of Mohit Sethi M Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 11:50 AM To: Jorge Vergara ; Alan DeKok ; Hannes Tschofenig Cc: emu@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Emu] Finishing draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 - Commitment Message handling Hi Alan, Jorge, Jim, Hannes, One octet of plaintext