Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-10 Thread The Rasterman
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 11:57:56 -0500 "William L. Thomson Jr." said: > On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 16:35:02 +0900 > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > > > > that's not how open source works. there is nothing keeping you around > > unlike thew moral

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-10 Thread William L. Thomson Jr.
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 16:35:02 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > > that's not how open source works. there is nothing keeping you around > unlike thew moral obligation you put on yourself to volunteer to > clean up after a disaster for example. Yes and no. Not

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-10 Thread Andrew Williams
Hi, I know I’m not really active here but I just wanted to agree with the sentiment here. It’s a little blunt but overall Stephen has a point. I still think that would could have helped is a shared understanding of what is being done (& why) and who the project is aimed at. Armed with such a

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-10 Thread Stephen Houston
There is so much I whole heartedly disagree with in your attitude and point of view in this thread that will take me too much energy and time and arguing to cover. I think other developers are coming to this same realization and are leaving rather than trying to change your mind. This project

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-10 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 11:28:01 -0500 "William L. Thomson Jr." said: > On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 13:38:36 +0900 > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > > > a volunteer is not going to do something they dislike. certainly not > > readily. users have

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-09 Thread William L. Thomson Jr.
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 11:28:01 -0500 "William L. Thomson Jr." wrote: > The thing is I do need the filemanager running all the time. Icons on > the desktop could be rendered otherwise. Like what Plasma has done as > an example. That is not related to the file manager.

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-09 Thread William L. Thomson Jr.
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 13:38:36 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > a volunteer is not going to do something they dislike. certainly not > readily. users have to convince the volunteer to do it. not the other > way around (that volunteers need to be slaves to users

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-09 Thread Jonathan Aquilina
Any issues found on fedora I am willing with mentoring and help to fix those bugs :) Sent from my iPhone > On 09 Mar 2018, at 10:36, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) > wrote: > > On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 08:21:22 +0100 Jonathan Aquilina > said: >

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-09 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 08:21:22 +0100 Jonathan Aquilina said: > Stupid suggestion probably if you are going to use opensuse as the base why > not maintain the existing code base and fork it and clean that up in a way > kind of start from scratch? something to discuss.

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-09 Thread The Rasterman
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 12:33:59 -0500 "William L. Thomson Jr." said: > On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 17:14:21 +0900 > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > > > > But that is the reality. They can call the shots and listen to users. > > Users are not

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-09 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 07 Mar 2018 15:57:56 + jaquilina said: it came through. i just replied. :) > Not sure if my reply from earlier today made it to the list as I then > got an email shortly after saying my address had been suspended from the > list, > God SF is a POS, but i

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-08 Thread William L. Thomson Jr.
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 17:14:21 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > > But that is the reality. They can call the shots and listen to users. > Users are not always right. But listening is good. In the end people > doing work make the final decisions. And I guess to

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-08 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 10:48:02 -0500 "William L. Thomson Jr." said: > On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 20:57:17 +0900 > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > > > > People who do the work get to call the shots. > > That is a fine balance. I am not really a

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-07 Thread Vinícius dos Santos Oliveira
2018-03-04 4:37 GMT-03:00 Davide Andreoli : > 2018-03-02 4:42 GMT+01:00 Vinícius dos Santos Oliveira < > vini.ipsma...@gmail.com>: > > I miss the penguins module a lot. > > > > Why you miss it? the penguins module is perfectly working with current E > and > (I hope) with

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-07 Thread jaquilina
Not sure if my reply from earlier today made it to the list as I then got an email shortly after saying my address had been suspended from the list, God SF is a POS, but i digress there with that little rant. I am more then eager and willing to put together an enlightenment spin on fedora 27

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-07 Thread William L. Thomson Jr.
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 14:56:13 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > > last i checked bodhi wanted to fork e because they didn't want to > update themes for compositing+wayland support (and e18 and on got > more overhead as more objects were in the canvas - this

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-07 Thread William L. Thomson Jr.
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 12:03:27 +1030 Simon Lees wrote: > On Wednesday, 7 March 2018 05:33:45 ACDT, William L. Thomson Jr. > wrote: > > On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 20:57:17 +0900 > > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > >> > >> h) I think at some point we may

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread Jonathan Aquilina
I’m willing to do a fedora spin for the bleeding edge stuff if you want me to Sent from my iPhone > On 07 Mar 2018, at 06:56, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) > wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 14:03:45 -0500 "William L. Thomson Jr." > said: >

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread Jonathan Aquilina
Stupid suggestion probably if you are going to use opensuse as the base why not maintain the existing code base and fork it and clean that up in a way kind of start from scratch? Sent from my iPhone > On 07 Mar 2018, at 07:40, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) > wrote: >

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 12:03:27 +1030 Simon Lees said: > On Wednesday, 7 March 2018 05:33:45 ACDT, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: > > On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 20:57:17 +0900 > > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > >> > >> h) I think at some point we may have to

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 14:03:45 -0500 "William L. Thomson Jr." said: > On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 20:57:17 +0900 > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > > > > h) I think at some point we may have to do our own distro that > > integrates E well and

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread Simon Lees
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018 05:33:45 ACDT, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: > On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 20:57:17 +0900 > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: >> >> h) I think at some point we may have to do our own distro that >> integrates E well and shows it off out-of-the-box. >

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread Christophe Sadoine
On 7 March 2018 at 01:50, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 16:21:48 + Stephen Houston > said: > >> Sigh. You are missing the point... > > i'm not... you're saying "hey look he wants cherries. check out this box of > potatoes we

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread William L. Thomson Jr.
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 20:57:17 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > > h) I think at some point we may have to do our own distro that > integrates E well and shows it off out-of-the-box. I would be interested in such. There are a couple existing.

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread Stephen Houston
No I'm saying look, potatoes or cherries let's do something, anything, other than nothing and here is a place to discuss with summarizations. On Tue, Mar 6, 2018, 10:52 AM Carsten Haitzler wrote: > On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 16:21:48 + Stephen Houston

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread Carsten Haitzler
On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 16:21:48 + Stephen Houston said: > Sigh. You are missing the point... i'm not... you're saying "hey look he wants cherries. check out this box of potatoes we have!". i'm not saying that one or the other is invalid or wrong, but you're linking

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread Stephen Houston
Sigh. You are missing the point... On Tue, Mar 6, 2018, 10:16 AM Carsten Haitzler wrote: > On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 15:27:06 + Stephen Houston > said: > > > We have developers leaving or severely cutting back their work, and this > > includes

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 15:27:06 + Stephen Houston said: > We have developers leaving or severely cutting back their work, and this > includes developers who carry a large work load. Now we see Stefan has > lost faith and interest in QA/CI and is going to step back from

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread William L. Thomson Jr.
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 08:59:02 +0100 Jérémy Zurcher wrote: > Rust uses github bot to post commits after testing thus ensure a good > state master branch. > > https://github.com/barosl/homu > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIageYT0Vgg Ansible seems to have made their own. Its

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread Stephen Houston
We have developers leaving or severely cutting back their work, and this includes developers who carry a large work load. Now we see Stefan has lost faith and interest in QA/CI and is going to step back from that... I think at some point we need to agree to stop arguing the merits of getting

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread Carsten Haitzler
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 13:43:09 +0100 Stefan Schmidt said: > Hello. > > > On 03/06/2018 12:34 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:54:50 +0100 Stefan Schmidt > > said: > > > >> Hello. > >> > >> > >> On 03/06/2018

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 21:10:04 +0900 Christophe Sadoine said: > On 6 March 2018 at 20:34, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:54:50 +0100 Stefan Schmidt > > said: > > > > i really don't think we have a lot of break

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread Stefan Schmidt
Hello. On 03/06/2018 12:34 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:54:50 +0100 Stefan Schmidt > said: > >> Hello. >> >> >> On 03/06/2018 07:44 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: >>> tbh platforms is an issue. windows is kind of big

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread Christophe Sadoine
On 6 March 2018 at 20:34, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:54:50 +0100 Stefan Schmidt > said: > > i really don't think we have a lot of break issues given size and complexity. > not build breaks anyway. right now if jenkins detects a

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:54:50 +0100 Stefan Schmidt said: > Hello. > > > On 03/06/2018 07:44 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > > tbh platforms is an issue. windows is kind of big as setting up a > > cross-build environment is a fair bit of work. setting up a

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread Stefan Schmidt
Hello. On 03/06/2018 07:44 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > tbh platforms is an issue. windows is kind of big as setting up a cross-build > environment is a fair bit of work. setting up a windows vm costs money to test > (need licenses, or if you can scrounge one off another pc you

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-06 Thread Knapp
The very best open source project that I know of is Blender 3d. I changes quickly, a great user community and dev community, grows like crazy, is crushing the Pay versions of 3d software and is almost bug free. I would take a look at how they do things. On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 8:59 AM, Jérémy

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-05 Thread Jérémy Zurcher
Rust uses github bot to post commits after testing thus ensure a good state master branch. https://github.com/barosl/homu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIageYT0Vgg On Tuesday 06 March 2018 17:01, Simon Lees wrote : > > > On 06/03/18 15:50, jaquilina wrote: > > Hi simon, > > > > I think

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-05 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 15:01:23 +1030 Simon Lees said: > > > On 06/03/18 12:51, Christophe Sadoine wrote: > > Then, it would be great if there was a tool to detect an api/theme > > break... and additions of api? > > I think a theme break tool is possible and should be done, not

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-05 Thread Simon Lees
On 06/03/18 15:50, jaquilina wrote: > Hi simon, > > I think what you are talking about is gerrit code review. I know > Libreoffice use it and for them I think you need to have 3 reviewers > before the code is committed as well the code gets compiled and built as > well to ensure it works. > >

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-05 Thread jaquilina
Hi simon, I think what you are talking about is gerrit code review. I know Libreoffice use it and for them I think you need to have 3 reviewers before the code is committed as well the code gets compiled and built as well to ensure it works.

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-05 Thread Simon Lees
On 06/03/18 12:51, Christophe Sadoine wrote: > Then, it would be great if there was a tool to detect an api/theme > break... and additions of api? > I think a theme break tool is possible and should be done, not sure > about the api. > There are API break tools available, currently they

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-05 Thread Christophe Sadoine
On 6 March 2018 at 10:07, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: > On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 10:55:36 +1030 > Simon Lees wrote: > >> On 06/03/18 03:56, Stefan Schmidt wrote: >> > Hello. >> > >> > I snipped away a lot of text here to make it easier to follow. If >> >

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-05 Thread William L. Thomson Jr.
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 10:55:36 +1030 Simon Lees wrote: > On 06/03/18 03:56, Stefan Schmidt wrote: > > Hello. > > > > I snipped away a lot of text here to make it easier to follow. If > > you feel I quoted out of context let me know. > > > > On 03/05/2018 12:57 PM, Carsten Haitzler

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-05 Thread Simon Lees
On 06/03/18 03:56, Stefan Schmidt wrote: > Hello. > > I snipped away a lot of text here to make it easier to follow. If you feel I > quoted out of context let me know. > > On 03/05/2018 12:57 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: >> 1. Code reverting. >> >> I take API breaks seriously.

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-05 Thread Simon Lees
On Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:18:02 ACDT, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: > On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 20:57:17 +0900 > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: >> >> People who do the work get to call the shots. >> If we made everything code-reviewed ala phab, I think it'd be far >>

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-05 Thread Stefan Schmidt
Hello. I snipped away a lot of text here to make it easier to follow. If you feel I quoted out of context let me know. On 03/05/2018 12:57 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > 1. Code reverting. > > I take API breaks seriously. An API break shouldn't happen. It should get > caught as

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-05 Thread William L. Thomson Jr.
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 20:57:17 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > > People who do the work get to call the shots. That is a fine balance. I am not really a fan of say ignoring users wishes or others because of who is doing the work and doing it their way vs whats

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-05 Thread The Rasterman
On Thu, 01 Mar 2018 19:28:15 + Stephen Houston said: Hi! So I was busy with some work and didn't want jump into this in the middle. I also allowed for some feedback from others too. I've read over some of these, and I actually have little to say about the feedback

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-04 Thread Simon Lees
On 02/03/18 05:58, Stephen Houston wrote: > I've been pondering writing this email for some time now. As others have > mentioned - our community has been trending downwards. Work from Samsung > aside, and those that use E/EFL through Samsung's work -- The developer and > user base has been

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-03 Thread Davide Andreoli
2018-03-02 4:42 GMT+01:00 Vinícius dos Santos Oliveira < vini.ipsma...@gmail.com>: > 2018-03-01 21:17 GMT-03:00 William L. Thomson Jr. < > wlt...@obsidian-studios.com>: > > > I also like Debians approach of an annually elected leader. > > https://www.debian.org/devel/leader > >

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-03 Thread Vinícius dos Santos Oliveira
2018-03-01 21:17 GMT-03:00 William L. Thomson Jr. < wlt...@obsidian-studios.com>: > I also like Debians approach of an annually elected leader. > https://www.debian.org/devel/leader > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Debian_project_leaders > I like “raster is top” way to go. Also:

Re: [E-devel] Current State and Future Direction of E/EFL

2018-03-01 Thread William L. Thomson Jr.
Many projects face hardships. I am optimistic still. Though I maybe seen as troublesome, unwanted, bad apple, etc by some. It is good to bring such issues up and discuss them. Problems do not solve themselves. On Thu, 01 Mar 2018 19:28:15 + Stephen Houston wrote: > >