Re: [e-users] wayland mouse pointer issue

2019-04-16 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 13:58:14 +0200 leoutat...@gmx.fr said:

> Hi
> I use wayland on two computers. Mouse pointer works normally on first
> computer (laptop) with i915 and/or bumblee/nvidia driver.
> On the secund computer with nvidia quadro pro 600/Nouveau, i can't move
> mouse pointer in wayland session. It works with X.
> [I tried proprietary nvidia driver on this computer, it's worth: i can't
> launch wayland].
> Archlinux system
> efl-git 1.22.99.61804
> enlightenment-git 0.22.99.23542

is it that you can't move the mouse or all rendering has stopped? like the
clock doesnt even update anymore etc?

> Greetings
> 
> --
> Maderios
> 
> 
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Re: [e-users] efl 1.22 wayland freeze

2019-04-07 Thread The Rasterman
On Sun, 7 Apr 2019 11:38:52 +0200 leoutat...@gmx.fr said:

> Hi
> I compiled and installed efl-git-1.22 + enlightenment-git
> It freezes under wayland, so I downgraded to 1.22 beta.
> Arch system, Arch-Aur packages

software or gl rendering in e? i know about the sw freezes. not sure why.
interesting that beta works i'll see if i can reproduce that. it might lead
to identifying a commit.


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Re: [e-users] Trouble running terminology 1.4 after installation

2019-04-07 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 5 Apr 2019 11:38:05 -0700 eric  said:

> Hello,
> 
> I tried building and installing terminology 1.4 today and can not get it 
> to run. I am pretty unfamiliar with meson and ninja and this may be the 
> problem.
> 
> When I enter terminology at a terminal I get:
> 
> $terminology
> 
> terminology
> ERR<3095>:terminology ../terminology-1.4.0/src/bin/utils.c:48 
> theme_apply() Could not load any theme for group=terminology/base: File 
> Does Not Exist
> ## Copy & Paste the below (until EOF) into a terminal, then hit Enter
> 
> eina_btlog << EOF
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.10x7f846b4e9a49 0x7f846b4bf000
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.10x7f846b4ea811 0x7f846b4bf000
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.10x7f846b4ebe41 0x7f846b4bf000
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x455d89 0x40
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x4517ab 0x40
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x4165ad 0x40
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x40cf8c 0x40
> /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.60x7f8469025830 0x7f8469005000
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x40cfe9 0x40
> EOF
> 
> ERR<3095>:terminology ../terminology-1.4.0/src/bin/utils.c:48 
> theme_apply() Could not load any theme for group=terminology/core: File 
> Does Not Exist
> ## Copy & Paste the below (until EOF) into a terminal, then hit Enter
> 
> eina_btlog << EOF
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.10x7f846b4e9a49 0x7f846b4bf000
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.10x7f846b4ea811 0x7f846b4bf000
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.10x7f846b4ebe41 0x7f846b4bf000
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x455d89 0x40
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x454599 0x40
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x416620 0x40
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x40cf8c 0x40
> /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.60x7f8469025830 0x7f8469005000
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x40cfe9 0x40
> EOF
> 
> ERR<3095>:terminology ../terminology-1.4.0/src/bin/utils.c:48 
> theme_apply() Could not load any theme for group=terminology/background: 
> File Does Not Exist
> ## Copy & Paste the below (until EOF) into a terminal, then hit Enter
> 
> eina_btlog << EOF
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.10x7f846b4e9a49 0x7f846b4bf000
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.10x7f846b4ea811 0x7f846b4bf000
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.10x7f846b4ebe41 0x7f846b4bf000
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x455d89 0x40
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x45463a 0x40
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x416620 0x40
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x40cf8c 0x40
> /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.60x7f8469025830 0x7f8469005000
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x40cfe9 0x40
> EOF
> 
> CRI<3095>:win ../terminology-1.4.0/src/bin/win.c:5630 term_new() 
> Couldn't find terminology theme! Forgot 'ninja install'?
> ## Copy & Paste the below (until EOF) into a terminal, then hit Enter
> 
> eina_btlog << EOF
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.10x7f846b4e9a49 0x7f846b4bf000
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.10x7f846b4ea811 0x7f846b4bf000
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.10x7f846b4ebe41 0x7f846b4bf000
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x454a53 0x40
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x416620 0x40
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x40cf8c 0x40
> /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.60x7f8469025830 0x7f8469005000
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x40cfe9 0x40
> EOF
> 
> CRI<3095>:terminology ../terminology-1.4.0/src/bin/main.c:906 elm_main() 
> Could not create terminal widget.
> ## Copy & Paste the below (until EOF) into a terminal, then hit Enter
> 
> eina_btlog << EOF
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.10x7f846b4e9a49 0x7f846b4bf000
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.10x7f846b4ea811 0x7f846b4bf000
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.10x7f846b4ebe41 0x7f846b4bf000
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x416c07 0x40
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x40cf8c 0x40
> /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.60x7f8469025830 0x7f8469005000
> /usr/local/bin/terminology 0x40cfe9 0x40
> EOF
> 
> I followed the build instructions:
> 
> meson . build
> ninja -C build
> sudo ninja -C build install
> 
> It is installed but does not run.
> 
> $terminology --verion
> Version: 1.4.0
> 
> $ ls -l /usr/local/share/terminology/themes/total 20980
> -rw--- 1 root root 1933272 Apr  5 11:15 base16_ocean_dark.edj
> -rw--- 1 root root 1934288 Apr  5 11:15 black.edj
> -rw--- 1 root root 2898145 Apr  5 11:15 default.edj
> -rw--- 1 root root 1934232 Apr  5 11:15 mild.edj
> -rw--- 1 root root 1933112 Apr  5 11:15 mustang.edj
> -rw--- 1 root root 2898617 Apr  5 11:15 nord.edj
> -rw--- 1 root root  203978 Apr  5 11:14 nyanology.edj
> -rw--- 1 root root 1934416 Apr  5 11:15 smyck.edj
> -rw--- 1 root root 2898449 Apr  5 11:15 solarized.edj
> -rw--- 1 root root 2898273 Apr  5 11:15 solarized_light.edj
> 
> The themes are installed.
> 
> 
> I think I missed an important step but do not know what it is.

look at the permissions. only root can read and write. other users can't
access the files. 

Re: [e-users] enlightenment-git dual screen problem

2019-03-28 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 09:52:34 +0100 leoutat...@gmx.fr said:

> On 3/26/19 12:29 AM, Mick wrote:
> > On Monday, 25 March 2019 18:34:25 GMT leoutat...@gmx.fr wrote:
> >> On 3/25/19 4:29 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 14:20:20 +0100 leoutat...@gmx.fr said:
> >>>> Hi
> >>>> I use dual screen to clone laptop to TV
> >>>> I configured enlightenment screen, it works, but:
> >>>> - Video is a little cropped on TV screen on four sides.
> >>>> -  after restarting x server, configuration is displayed non stored
> >>>> How to avoid that?
> >>>> See screenshot attachment
> >>>> X server
> >>>> laptop screen size 1600x900 (ratio 1.77)
> >>>> tv screen size 1920x1080 (ratio 1.77)
> >>>> arch system
> >>>> efl-git 1.22.0beta2.61568
> >>>> enlightenment-git 0.22.99.23537
> >>> Nothing attached... ? and I'm not sure exactly what you mean without some
> >>> examples.
> >>I hate html mail but attached file doesnt seem working now for me...
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Maderios
> >
> > Try posting a screenshot/pic here and then share the link:
> >
> > https://imgur.com/upload
> >
> Done. Thanks !
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/6BZYGZt

That doesn't help either... :( But I think Cedric interpreted this right so it
gives me an idea on what is going on. I have also just such a TV. It, by
default, insists on "zooming in" to cut out the content around the borders.
It's a TV. That's what they do:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_area_(television)

That. Your TV is cutting out at least the invisible area and zooming the rest
in. This will always result in a blurry images but it's a holdover from analog
TV days where these areas were used to transport out-of-band signal information
(e.g. like teletext or closed captioning for the hearing impaired in the USA -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletext +
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_captioning ). Yes - it's being dumb. It's
assuming your VGA/HDMI input is ye olde analog style and wants to hide the
side-band data. It's a stupid assumption to make by default but TVs do that.
Check your settings (remote) to find some zoom or such option to disable this.
Perhaps your TV will be smart enough to remember this (per output)... unlike
mine, but this is the right solution. It'll make the display less blurry and
give you all of the pixels on the screen 1:1.

Now you have another issue. 1920x1080 on the TV and 1600x900 on the laptop.
This will create problems if you are trying to clone. Have it extend instead of
clone and you'll be fine. Otherwise - what can be done? E's randr logic tries
to find a common resolution between 2 screens that clone. I bet it can't find
one for you as there is no common resolution (TV doesn't advertise 1600x900 and
I'm willing to bet your panel is also limited to perhaps a single resolution?).
You have a fundamental incompatibility on your hands. In theory it's possible
to force a mode that the screen may not advertise 9force the same 1600x900 mode
timings onto the HDMI output) but we don't have anything to do this - it may
not actually work as the screen may reject such a mode as it wasn't advertised.
You can force this with xrandr, but E's screen setup will only work within the
"sensible limitations" provided. So take a look at the list of provided
resolutions to see if any match. In addition there is the above
overscan/invisible area issue probably as well.


-- 
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Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com



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Re: [e-users] enlightenment-git dual screen problem

2019-03-25 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 14:20:20 +0100 leoutat...@gmx.fr said:

> Hi
> I use dual screen to clone laptop to TV
> I configured enlightenment screen, it works, but:
> - Video is a little cropped on TV screen on four sides.
> -  after restarting x server, configuration is displayed non stored
> How to avoid that?
> See screenshot attachment
> X server
> laptop screen size 1600x900 (ratio 1.77)
> tv screen size 1920x1080 (ratio 1.77)
> arch system
> efl-git 1.22.0beta2.61568
> enlightenment-git 0.22.99.23537

Nothing attached... ? and I'm not sure exactly what you mean without some
examples.

> Thanks
> 
> --
> Maderios
> 
> 
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Re: [e-users] Problem with kodi multimedia player

2019-03-23 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 17:50:20 -0700 Eric  said:

> 
> 
> On 2/9/19 10:00 PM, eric wrote:
> > On 2/8/19 1:53 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> >> On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 08:28:20 -0800 Eric  said:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 2/5/19 8:04 AM, Mick wrote:
> >>>> On Tuesday, 5 February 2019 13:12:38 GMT Eric wrote:
> >>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have had a problem with kodi on the enlightenment desktop for quite
> >>>>> some time and have had no luck trying to resolve it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The problem is that kodi only shows a black window when it is in
> >>>>> windowed mode.  It works fine in full screen mode. It has been like 
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> since about the time xbmc became kodi.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This occurs with Ubuntu, Arch and openSuse with Intel and Nvidia video
> >>>>> cards.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Has anyone used kodi on their enlightenment desktop in windowed mode
> >>>>> with success?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have not had any luck searching for solutions on the internet.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I like to use kodi in windowed mode so I can keep an eye on other 
> >>>>> things
> >>>>> going on such as temperature when using it as a media player without
> >>>>> having to close the app or switch to a different terminal.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Eric
> >>>>
> >>>> I've had a similar experience with various apps using hardware 
> >>>> acceleration,
> >>>> so I blamed Radeon for it.
> >>>>
> >>>> The workaround for me has been to press Ctrl+Alt+End which restarts the
> >>>> compositor and the app window is rendered properly thereafter.
> >>>>
> >>>> HTH in your case.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for responding but unfortunately no luck with the 
> >>> Ctrl+Alt+End.
> >>>
> >>> I have seen that there are similar problems when using the Cinnamon
> >>> desktop that has something to do with the rendering of kodi.
> >>>
> >>> I was hoping someone had it working from the list and could tell me
> >>> their secret.  :-)
> >>
> >> http://www.enlightenment.org/ss/e-5c5d426e1f3f71.90449760.jpg
> >>
> >> :)
> >>
> >> out of the box (amdgpu driver). FYI I also have it working on an intel 
> >> gfx
> >> system too - no issues there. have had that one going for maybe 1.5 
> >> years? i
> >> have in the past had it work on nvidia drivers too. sorry that it's a 
> >> tale of
> >> "it just works" with no help there, but suffice to say it can and does 
> >> work for
> >> people, so maybe there is something more specific you are doing that 
> >> others are
> >> not that causes this?
> > 
> > Thank you for the information.  You and Daniel both give me hope that it 
> > can be done as it is being done.  It is more than likely something that 
> > I am doing or failing to do.
> > 
> > Ubuntu is the only distro I build enlightenment from source anymore and 
> > my Arch boxes are pretty sparse with what I install so I may be missing 
> > something.  Also these are all laptops with intel i5 or i7 with either 
> > intel or nvidia video which I should have mentioned in the beginning.
> > 
> 
> I just wanted to report that kodi 18.1 is working now in windowed mode 
> on my updated arch computer with enlightenment 22.4 and efl 1.21.1-2 
> after updating this week.  I don't know what was causing the problem but 
> it works now.  Hooray.

yay! :)

-- 
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Re: [e-users] Problem with kodi multimedia player

2019-02-08 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 08:28:20 -0800 Eric  said:

> 
> 
> On 2/5/19 8:04 AM, Mick wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 5 February 2019 13:12:38 GMT Eric wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I have had a problem with kodi on the enlightenment desktop for quite
> >> some time and have had no luck trying to resolve it.
> >>
> >> The problem is that kodi only shows a black window when it is in
> >> windowed mode.  It works fine in full screen mode. It has been like this
> >> since about the time xbmc became kodi.
> >>
> >> This occurs with Ubuntu, Arch and openSuse with Intel and Nvidia video
> >> cards.
> >>
> >> Has anyone used kodi on their enlightenment desktop in windowed mode
> >> with success?
> >>
> >> I have not had any luck searching for solutions on the internet.
> >>
> >> I like to use kodi in windowed mode so I can keep an eye on other things
> >> going on such as temperature when using it as a media player without
> >> having to close the app or switch to a different terminal.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Eric
> > 
> > I've had a similar experience with various apps using hardware acceleration,
> > so I blamed Radeon for it.
> > 
> > The workaround for me has been to press Ctrl+Alt+End which restarts the
> > compositor and the app window is rendered properly thereafter.
> > 
> > HTH in your case.
> > 
> 
> Thank you for responding but unfortunately no luck with the Ctrl+Alt+End.
> 
> I have seen that there are similar problems when using the Cinnamon 
> desktop that has something to do with the rendering of kodi.
> 
> I was hoping someone had it working from the list and could tell me 
> their secret.  :-)

http://www.enlightenment.org/ss/e-5c5d426e1f3f71.90449760.jpg

:)

out of the box (amdgpu driver). FYI I also have it working on an intel gfx
system too - no issues there. have had that one going for maybe 1.5 years? i
have in the past had it work on nvidia drivers too. sorry that it's a tale of
"it just works" with no help there, but suffice to say it can and does work for
people, so maybe there is something more specific you are doing that others are
not that causes this?

> Regards,
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
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Re: [e-users] enlightenment freeze on efm open

2019-02-04 Thread The Rasterman
On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 16:13:48 +0300 Vasiliy Tolstov  said:

not known. do you have a backtrace to the freeze? did e freeze (don't think it
did) or did e just top rendering. if it's actually the 2nd then i may have
fixed that in efl some time ago (a few months ago?). best way to know is... try
git master and see... :)

> Hi. I'm use fedora with:
> enlightenment-devel-0.22.4-1.fc29.x86_64
> enlightenment-data-0.22.4-1.fc29.noarch
> enlightenment-0.22.4-1.fc29.x86_64
> efl-1.21.1-1.fc29.x86_64
> efl-devel-1.21.1-1.fc29.x86_64
> 
> each time when i'm open efm it window freezes and i can't click on
> another window or close opened. after i'm restart enlightenment via
> start menu->enlightenment->restart all works fine
> after some time when i'm open efm again this issue appears again.
> 
> does it known issue and have fix, if not - how can i debug why this
> happened? dmesg does not says anything about errors.
> 
> -- 
> Vasiliy Tolstov,
> e-mail: v.tols...@selfip.ru
> 
> 
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Re: [e-users] sysactions menu items disabled

2019-01-29 Thread The Rasterman
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 11:23:56 +1100 Daniel Kasak  said:

> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 9:04 AM Daniel Kasak  wrote:
> 
> > Hi all.
> >
> > I'm on a new laptop & build ( git ) and all the "System Actions":
> >  - Suspend
> >  - Hibernate
> >  - Power Off
> >  - Reboot
> >   ... are disabled.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> I figured it out. I'd built ( this is Gentoo, by the way ) systemd
> *without* policykit support. All fixed now :)

i would have said - sysactions.conf then doesnt have working actions to exec
setuid root (enlightenment's sysactions) which is the fallback after it can't
find logind from systemd and inhibit normal power button etc. handling and thus
e handle it on its own by sending dbus messages to systemd... so that detect
failed and fallback said "nothing to be done here". :)

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Re: [e-users] On-screen keyboard for touch-screen usage

2019-01-13 Thread The Rasterman
On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 13:18:01 +1100 Daniel Kasak  said:

> Hi all.
> 
> I just got a new laptop ( yay! ) which has a touchscreen. I'd like to be
> able to use it, tablet-style, which would require an on-screen keyboard
> that I could activate ( eg by some keybinding ).
> 
> I found the 'Virtual Keyboard' module, under 'Mobile' in settings. But I
> can't figure out how to use it :/ eg I can only make it appear by loading
> the module ... I can't make it pop up and disappear on demand. Also
> keypresses don't go to the last active ( or currently active ) window.  Is
> this module ready? Are there docs somewhere? Are there other options I can
> look into?
> 
> Thanks :)

oh i forgot to mention - vkd does add 3 actions u can bind something to (a key,
mouse or acpi event) that are show, hide and toggle the vkbd - so it's kind of
up to you to figure out what would toggle/show/hide this depending on your
hardware :)

yes - having config by default have such bindings might be nice but i'd need an
idea of std events to set up. also detecting by kbd plug/unplug events (e.g. if
zero kbds are plugged in then vkbd shows, and once a kbd is plugged in it hides
etc.) the problem here is knowing what is a real kbd and just a dummy kbd
device. i'd need some config gui to blacklist specific devices to ignore when
looking for a kbd auto plug/unplug. i just haven't done any such thing yet.

this also needs wl support. i looked but i couldn't figure out a way of mapping
the keysyms correctly in wl so it could use the same config.

also this probably should hook into input methods as opposed to just send key
events if its doing prediction/correction for sure. again 0 just needs work..
but it is usabel/works as is. with some config effort you could binding it some
button or lid event from acpi or something that indicates if a detachable kbd
was plugged in or not - or there is a special kbd button on the screen unit etc.

-- 
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Re: [e-users] On-screen keyboard for touch-screen usage

2019-01-13 Thread The Rasterman
On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 13:18:01 +1100 Daniel Kasak  said:

> Hi all.
> 
> I just got a new laptop ( yay! ) which has a touchscreen. I'd like to be
> able to use it, tablet-style, which would require an on-screen keyboard
> that I could activate ( eg by some keybinding ).
> 
> I found the 'Virtual Keyboard' module, under 'Mobile' in settings. But I
> can't figure out how to use it :/ eg I can only make it appear by loading
> the module ... I can't make it pop up and disappear on demand. Also
> keypresses don't go to the last active ( or currently active ) window.  Is
> this module ready? Are there docs somewhere? Are there other options I can
> look into?

it'll only work in x FYI. it doesn't come and go on demand. it's always there if
loaded. you can move it around, configure it to stick to an edge of the screen
etc. it used 2 fingers to drag it around/move it. (or ctrl+left mouse). there
are 2 layouts included. the default uses a dictionary to do correction so u can
mis-type (hit somewhere near the target key) and it'll fix it up. it's not
prediction (where it completes the word given a beginning) or like swype.

when the default correcting kbd is correcting the "default closest correction"
is in the middle in blue, with less likely results going outwards to the left
and right swipe to the right to enter a space (and to accept the default
correction) or press the correction u want in the list. swipe left to
backspace. swipe down to insert and enter. swpie up to switch kbd layouts. this
will cycle between multiple layouts. one is the default, one is "symbols and
numbers" and one is "full terminal layout" which when used does not correct and
dumbly inserts the keys presses as-is.

this all relies on the x test extension working and efl's xtest support not
being disabled.

-- 
- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --
Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com



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Re: [e-users] On-screen keyboard for touch-screen usage

2019-01-13 Thread The Rasterman
On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:47:17 + Peter Flynn  said:

> On 13/01/2019 02:18, Daniel Kasak wrote:
> > Hi all.
> > 
> > I just got a new laptop ( yay! )
> 
> I'm in the market. What did you get? If you don't mind saying.
> 
> > which has a touchscreen.
> 
> I don't know if they work in Linux at all, let alone E. Aren't they all
> proprietary Windows-only drivers?

every single one i've seen works on linux.

-- 
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Re: [e-users] Wayland problems

2019-01-10 Thread The Rasterman
On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 12:48:26 -0500 Conrad Knight  said:

As usual - wayland stuff is kind of new and experimental so I'd advise using
git master for that.

as for how to compile - look at the aur git pkgs:

https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/PKGBUILD?h=efl-git
https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/PKGBUILD?h=enlightenment-git

:) That should get you up to date on the options. Indeed that wiki page is not
up to date

> I've followed the instructions on this page:
> 
> https://www.enlightenment.org/about-wayland
> 
> adding the necessary configure options. (Note:
> --enable-wayland-clients and --enable-wayland-egl for enlightenment's
> configure are not recognised. I used --enable-wayland instead.)
> 
> I'm using efl 1.21.1 and enlightenment 0.22.4.
> 
> Everything seems to work, except for these two problems:
> 1) There's a big, fat arrow cursor in the center of the screen. I
> would say it's the default X cursor, but this is wayland... It's
> separate from the normal cursor, which functions as expected. It's a
> static cursor image that appears on top of everything else.

git :)

> 2) Window decorations appear to be broken! I have a borderless
> terminology window, and completely decoration-free conky windows open
> on startup, and they all have borders and drop shadow. Programs (such
> as Chrome) that manage their own decorations and positioning also have
> an enlightenment border added, creating a double-border effect, and
> their positioning over-ridden.

try git. i use it very often on a range of ARM boards and all of this works.
Out of the box.

> Are there fixes or configuration settings to correct either of these?
> 
> Another quick question -- that same web page mentions a wayland-only
> option, but the link to those instructions says it's not safe for
> everyday use. Is this still the case? Obviously, until the above
> problems are fixed, i'm not about to compile enlightenment without X
> support.

I've never enabled wayland only. I want xwayland to work so there is x
compatibility for apps/toolkits that cant do wayland yet. :)

> Thanks,
> -Conrad.
> 
> -- 
> Shine like thunder
> Cry like rain
> 
> 
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Re: [e-users] Dual monitor

2018-12-31 Thread The Rasterman
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 21:34:07 + Peter Flynn  said:

> I have just added a second monitor to my test system running E19 from 
> ppa:niko2040/e19 under Mint 19. It SIGSEGVs immediately on login.
> 
> I logged out and logged back in using Cinnamon, and used their GUI for 
> Displays to configure it: the primary monitor is landscape and the 
> secondary monitor is portrait (able to display a full page of A3).
> 
> If I log out and log back into E, it immediately SIGSEGVs.
> 
> What are my options here?
> 
> What log files should I be looking for clues in?

https://www.enlightenment.org/contrib/enlightenment_debugging

:) in this case you don't need to set up the sgv.. already happened. you'd need
debugging info tho...

FYI i use multi monitor all the time and have for decades and it's working for
me (in x11 - not wl - not ready yet there).

> Is there an updated prebuilt e+terminology available as a .deb from 
> anywhere else?
> 
> Peter
> -- 
> Here is the output of xrandr:
> Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 2970 x 1680, maximum 8192 x 8192
> HDMI-1 connected 1050x1680+0+0 right (normal left inverted right x axis 
> y axis) 430mm x 270mm
> 1680x1050 59.88*+
> 1280x1024 75.0260.02
> 1152x864  75.00
> 1024x768  75.0360.00
> 800x600   75.0060.32
> 640x480   75.0059.94
> 720x400   70.08
> DP-1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
> HDMI-2 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
> DVI-I-1-1 connected primary 1920x1080+1050+600 (normal left inverted 
> right x axis y axis) 527mm x 296mm
> 1920x1080 60.00*+  50.0059.94
> 1920x1080i60.0050.0059.94
> 1600x1200 60.00
> 1600x900  60.00
> 1280x1024 75.0260.02
> 1152x864  75.00
> 1280x720  60.0050.0059.94
> 1024x768  75.0360.00
> 800x600   75.0060.32
> 720x576   50.00
> 720x480   60.0059.94
> 640x480   75.0060.0059.94
> 720x400   70.08
> DVI-D-1-1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
> HDMI-1-3 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
>1280x1024 (0x4f) 135.000MHz +HSync +VSync
>  h: width  1280 start 1296 end 1440 total 1688 skew0 clock 
> 79.98KHz
>  v: height 1024 start 1025 end 1028 total 1066   clock 
> 75.02Hz
>1280x1024 (0x50) 108.000MHz +HSync +VSync
>  h: width  1280 start 1328 end 1440 total 1688 skew0 clock 
> 63.98KHz
>  v: height 1024 start 1025 end 1028 total 1066   clock 
> 60.02Hz
>1152x864 (0x51) 108.000MHz +HSync +VSync
>  h: width  1152 start 1216 end 1344 total 1600 skew0 clock 
> 67.50KHz
>  v: height  864 start  865 end  868 total  900   clock 
> 75.00Hz
>1024x768 (0x55) 78.750MHz +HSync +VSync
>  h: width  1024 start 1040 end 1136 total 1312 skew0 clock 
> 60.02KHz
>  v: height  768 start  769 end  772 total  800   clock 
> 75.03Hz
>1024x768 (0x56) 65.000MHz -HSync -VSync
>  h: width  1024 start 1048 end 1184 total 1344 skew0 clock 
> 48.36KHz
>  v: height  768 start  771 end  777 total  806   clock 
> 60.00Hz
>800x600 (0x57) 49.500MHz +HSync +VSync
>  h: width   800 start  816 end  896 total 1056 skew0 clock 
> 46.88KHz
>  v: height  600 start  601 end  604 total  625   clock 
> 75.00Hz
>800x600 (0x58) 40.000MHz +HSync +VSync
>  h: width   800 start  840 end  968 total 1056 skew0 clock 
> 37.88KHz
>  v: height  600 start  601 end  605 total  628   clock 
> 60.32Hz
>640x480 (0x5c) 31.500MHz -HSync -VSync
>  h: width   640 start  656 end  720 total  840 skew0 clock 
> 37.50KHz
>  v: height  480 start  481 end  484 total  500   clock 
> 75.00Hz
>640x480 (0x5e) 25.175MHz -HSync -VSync
>  h: width   640 start  656 end  752 total  800 skew0 clock 
> 31.47KHz
>  v: height  480 start  490 end  492 total  525   clock 
> 59.94Hz
>720x400 (0x5f) 28.320MHz -HSync +VSync
>  h: width   720 start  738 end  846 total  900 skew0 clock 
> 31.47KHz
>  v: height  400 start  412 end  414 total  449   clock 
> 70.08Hz
> 
> 
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Re: [e-users] enlightenment "freezing" when opening a new window... sometimes

2018-12-19 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 14:46:32 -0500 Conrad Knight  said:

> On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 8:31 AM Carsten Haitzler  wrote:
> > actually you may be surprised that focus may be getting set.. you just don't
> > SEE the results. if you have something that produces sounds when u type...
> > e.g. you have speakers or headphones set up and volume up and maybe a
> > terminology terminal (and you haven't disabled the visual bell) and you
> > have a prompt - hit "ctrl+g" and you'll get a "bing" sound as well as the
> > red bell.
> 
> It just happened again, so i was able to test this. There's definitely
> no focus -- i had just opened a terminal window with a password
> prompt, and no amount of clicking in that window would allow me to
> enter the password. I also had a terminology window open on the same
> virtual desktop, and there was no "bing" or visual bell. I used the
> miniature pager in the i-bar to switch to the desktop with Chrome
> open, and clicking on different tabs had no effect. The whole time,
> the mouse cursor never changed from its shape on the desktop, where it
> would normally change to a different shape when hovering over
> different windows.

oh - mouse pointer didn't change e.g. when over chrome? (when things froze).
zero changes to pointer? in your previous mail you said the pointer changed
when you clicked ... did it still do this? chrome sets its own pointer so
pointer should hang to whatever chrome drives when over its window

> > FYI e is unaware of vt switches (in x11). it doesn't look, know or care and
> > in fact there isn't any X11 way to do this.
> 
> Oh, i realise this, it's just that i was able to issue the restart
> command from a different vt, and that (sometimes, it did i this most
> recent instance) recovers. The vt switch itself doesn't do anything
> (if i switch back immediately, E is still mostly frozen).

oh - i thought the vt switch did the fix. never mind then.

> I'm including some syslog entries in case they're related... These are
> from immediately before i switched to a text vt to restart E, and as i
> mentioned, i did use the pager to attempt focussing other windows
> first. The freeze-up happened on opening a gnome-terminal window with
> a password prompt, so i've included the errors right before the
> terminal opened at Dec 18 13:57:23, which is followed by fprintd
> asking me to swipe the finger print reader.

nothing that leaps out at me... - try mousing over chrome - does the pointer
change? the fact the restart request works means e's event loop is working and
processing events. you didn't try the gdb thing i mentioned right?

> Dec 18 13:56:24 inanna /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-x-session[2832]:
> ERR<3009>:eina_safety src/bin/e_pixmap.c:613 e_pixmap_size_get()
> safety check failed: cp == NULL
> Dec 18 13:56:24 inanna /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-x-session[2832]: ## Copy &
> Paste the below (until EOF) into a terminal, then hit Enter
> Dec 18 13:56:24 inanna /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-x-session[2832]: eina_btlog << EOF
> Dec 18 13:56:24 inanna /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-x-session[2832]:
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.1#011 0x7fdd9fe101bc 0x7fdd9fde5000
> Dec 18 13:56:24 inanna /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-x-session[2832]:
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.1#011 0x7fdd9fe10f51 0x7fdd9fde5000
> Dec 18 13:56:24 inanna /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-x-session[2832]:
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.1#011 0x7fdd9fe1257b 0x7fdd9fde5000
> Dec 18 13:56:24 inanna /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-x-session[2832]:
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.1#011 0x7fdd9fe29c60 0x7fdd9fde5000
> Dec 18 13:56:24 inanna /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-x-session[2832]:
> /usr/local/bin/enlightenment#011 0x55693cb0a3c3 0x55693ca01000
> Dec 18 13:56:24 inanna /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-x-session[2832]:
> /usr/local/bin/enlightenment#011 0x55693ca7b9a6 0x55693ca01000
> Dec 18 13:56:24 inanna /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-x-session[2832]:
> /usr/local/bin/enlightenment#011 0x55693ca9026b 0x55693ca01000
> Dec 18 13:56:24 inanna /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-x-session[2832]:
> /usr/local/bin/enlightenment#011 0x55693ca9094b 0x55693ca01000
> Dec 18 13:56:24 inanna /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-x-session[2832]:
> /usr/local/lib/enlightenment/modules/pager/linux-gnu-x86_64-0.22/module.so#011
> 0x7fdd8cc9865c 0x7fdd8cc9
> Dec 18 13:56:24 inanna /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-x-session[2832]:
> /usr/local/lib/enlightenment/modules/pager/linux-gnu-x86_64-0.22/module.so#011
> 0x7fdd8cc9887b 0x7fdd8cc9
> Dec 18 13:56:24 inanna /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-x-session[2832]:
> /usr/local/lib/enlightenment/modules/pager/linux-gnu-x86_64-0.22/module.so#011
> 0x7fdd8cc988f9 0x7fdd8cc9
> Dec 18 13:56:24 inanna /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-x-session[2832]:
> /usr/local/lib/enlightenment/modules/pager/linux-gnu-x86_64-0.22/module.so#011
> 0x7fdd8cc9900e 0x7fdd8cc9
> Dec 18 13:56:24 inanna /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-x-session[2832]:
> /usr/local/lib/libecore.so.1#011 0x7fdd9fea1399 0x7fdd9fe7d000
> Dec 18 13:56:24 inanna /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-x-session[2832]:
> /usr/local/lib/libecore.so.1#011 0x7fdd9fea8adf 0x7fdd9fe7d000
> Dec 18 13:56:24 inanna /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-x-session[2832]:
> 

Re: [e-users] enlightenment "freezing" when opening a new window... sometimes

2018-12-16 Thread The Rasterman
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:04:45 -0500 Conrad Knight  said:

> Hi,
> 
> I recently upgraded from EFL 1.20.7 to 1.21.1. At the same time i also
> enabled wayland support, however i'm still running Enlightenment under
> Xorg. I also ugraded E itself from 0.22.3 to 0.22.4. There were no
> other changes to my set up.
> 
> Since this upgrade i've been running into this problem: every now and
> then, when opening a new window, enlightenment will "freeze". It's not
> reproducible as far as i can tell... sometimes E will be running for
> days, and suddenly stop when opening up one more window, sometimes it
> will freeze the moment i open up the first window afer logging in.
> 
> The symptoms are that the mouse cursor still moves, but will not give
> focus to any window under it. If i click the mouse button, the cusor
> blinks, but nothing else happens. The exception seems to be that the

actually you may be surprised that focus may be getting set.. you just don't
SEE the results. if you have something that produces sounds when u type... e.g.
you have speakers or headphones set up and volume up and maybe a terminology
terminal (and you haven't disabled the visual bell) and you have a prompt - hit
"ctrl+g" and you'll get a "bing" sound as well as the red bell. if you mouse
over a terminal in this state and do that and u hear the bing... focus is
working. apps are working. the problem is the compositor updates are not being
displayed somehow. also if you have a music or video player and it has kbd
controls - focus it (dont wait to see it be focused" and use the kbd to make it
do something with audio you will recognise (pause, play, fw/rw etc.)

> un-hiding of the IBar at the bottom of my screen still works, as do
> the buttons in it, allowing me to at least cleanly log out.
> 
> One other thing that does allow me to recover is switching to a text
> termial and running:
> DISPLAY=:0 enlightenment_remote -restart

FYI e is unaware of vt switches (in x11). it doesn't look, know or care and in
fact there isn't any X11 way to do this.

i have seen this before and what you describe smells to me of "driver just
stopped swapping buffers".

the way to verify if e (and well efl) is rendering is to get e attached to gdb
and set breakpoints for the buffer swapping. set a breakpoint for
eng_outbuf_flush (function name - gdb commant: b eng_outbuf_flush). the best
way to do this is ssh in from somewhere else as you will need e to keep running
normally without it having screenblacked etc. if the breakpoint keeps being
triggered the flush function for the gl engine is being called. if you step
through you'll see some if's that may skip the ultimate swap and then
eventually a call to glXSwapBuffers() and beyond this point it's the driver
stack dealing with displaying things.

now the reason i say this or point you to checking is to double check/confirm
it is what i suspect. and because a vt switch "fixes it" ... i suspect the
driver stack because... it is actually the xorg server that is in charge of
doing the swap. a swapbuffer call above should simply be sending protocol to
the server to go do this. in theory the driver could have an internal "back
door" to the xorg side driver where when you switch away from the vt, the
xserver tells the gl stack to "update a flag" that basically makes this swap a
NOOP so the client just sends NOTHING to the server while this is set. depends
on driver stack and internals, but this is not really relevant. at the end of
the day i am pointing here because IF e is still swapping buffers, (and the
fact the pointer blinks when u click says to me e is alive, kicking, processing
events and trying to render - pointers go via a different path to the rest of
the display and pointers are sw rendered client-side in x and the pixels
blasted across on updates and then the cursor updated from this). so e is
alive and doing it's normal stuff.

if it's an efl/e problem then the swapbuffer may not be called (something
blocking it) or preventing updates. now - this could ALSO be driver related.
depending on the driver, efl will request animation updates from the drm driver
as vsync events. i know i expanded the whitelist so it could be that your card
went from not on the white list to on it. this leads to animation perfectly
timed with screen refresh, and in this case efl will be talking to the dm
driver stack saying "send me vblank events". oddly your pointer updates so...
some animator is ticking somewhere i think. perhaps e stops getting vsync
events for some reason (or some hiccup stops it from requesting them as this is
turned on and off on the fly depending on animation needs so we don't tick over
unnecessarily when everything is idle). so there is a possibility there is
something over there causing it. let's explore this path if the swapbuffers are
not being called. if they are then... unfortunately we've found a bug in your
driver stack. :( yes - i know.they are the only changes you made thus you go
"bug must be 

Re: [e-users] xdg-open troubles

2018-11-05 Thread The Rasterman
On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 14:44:59 + Peter Flynn  said:

> On 04/11/2018 13:14, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> [...]
> > it'll pick one of whatever app says it can open that mime type...
> > whatever comes first that it finds,
> 
> That was my understanding also. But it doesn't:
> 
>   * /usr/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache says (simplified)
> application/pdf=qpdfview.desktop;evince.desktop;gimp.desktop;
> because *I* want them to open with qpdfview but evince disagreed
> *and then* GIMP stuck its oar in and added itself

that is normal. all tjhese apps say they can load a pdf, so they are on the
list of candidates. one of the candidate list is chosen by e - whatever it
finds first in its in-memory data structures, UNLESS you have explicitly set
one via settings OR used efm to "open with" a specific one, then that is used.

>   * if I type the command xdg-open foobar.pdf it opens in evince
> 
>   * if I double-click on foobar.pdf in efm it opens in qpdfview
> 
>   * if the genealogical application Gramps generates a PDF report,
> it opens GIMP to display it!

i tested this myself just before i wrote my last mail and xdg-open followed
what enlightenment_open does...

perhaps your system's xdg-open is old and doesn't support enlightenment? try
using enlightenment_open instead  it should be consistent.

the xdg tools are heavily hard-coded for specific desktop support. xdg-open is
just a shell script, so have a read :) perhaps you need to upgrade OS/XDG tools?

> Obviously E is doing it right and the others are wrong :-)
> 
> > UNLESS you happen to change that. and it's as simple as opening that 
> > mime type via efm and using "open with" ... and selecting the 
> > appropriate app, then it'll use whatever you last happened to use 
> > there as that becomes your preferred opener of that type.
> Part of the problem is that I hardly ever use GUI file managers, and if
> I do it's usually caja.

well then you get the settings dialog with the massive list of mime types to
have fun with. :)

> > you could beat your head against the massive default applications 
> > dialog and manually select there mime type by mime type... but just
> > using efm is the simplest way...
> 
> Yes, but fortunately it was only to mime types and both the bogus
> associations were made by one application. I have added the relevant
> commands to my setup script for installing new systems now, so I
> shouldn't have any more trouble.

it is possible the app is not using xdg-open and doing its own thing
(enlightenment does its own thing ... well chicken-and-egg problem. xdg-open
these days relies on enlightenment to do the opening and  e will use
~/.config/mimeapps.list | ~/.local/share/applications/defaults.list files
(mimeapps first if found, otherwise fallback to defaults.list). e will write
all config these days into the mimeapps.list file. some time ago (i don't know
when) xdg decided to change from the defaults.list file to the mimeapps.list
scheme. e will auto-upgrade you to the new scheme if you don't have a
mimeapps.list file bu just copying defaults.list over to there. perhaps it's
something related to some apps using the sold scheme and some the new, maybe
xdg-open not supporting enlightenment ... perhaps a combination of the 2?

> Thanks for your help.
> 
> ///Peter
> 
> 
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Re: [e-users] How to come back from suspend with a password

2018-11-04 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 18:47:58 +0100 Pierre Couderc  said:

> On 11/2/18 4:29 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 16:01:59 +0100 Pierre Couderc  said:
> >
> >> On 11/2/18 2:49 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 14:13:26 +0100 Pierre Couderc  said:
> >>>
> >>>> I can  "systemctl suspend" in a terminogy console, but I would like
> >>>> that  password be asked when awaiking
> >>>>
> >>>> How to do that...?
> >>> e won't. e will do this all if you suspend via e. there are actions you
> >>> can bind to keys or other events to make suspend a single key
> >>> press/binding if u like.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Thank you, and how do I "suspend via e" ?
> > see e's binput settings - e.g key bindings, acpi bindings. under action ->
> > system are suspend, hibernate etc. ... select one of those.
> >
> >> And how do I parametrize awaking ?
> > what do you mean?
> >
> >
> I mean request a password when   awaiking, or executing some script.

a checkbox under screen lock settings "lock on suspend" :)

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Re: [e-users] xdg-open troubles

2018-11-04 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 19:21:36 + Peter Flynn  said:

> xdg-open calls enlightenment_open to open a file with its nominated
> handler. On my system, PDFs open with GIMP for some unfathomable reason,
> and all my browsers are incapable of calling Thunderbird to open mailto:
> links.
> 
> How does enlightenment_open work? I must presumably be able to set each
> filetype to open with the correct application somehow. Is there a config
> file I can edit to force it to use the right applications?
> 
> (And then preferably lock it down hard so that any applications I
> install in the future don't try to mess with the settings, which I
> suspect is why it's broken...)

it'll pick one of whatever app says it can open that mime tyope... whatever
comes first that it finds, UNLESS you happen to change that. and it's as simple
as opening that mime type via efm and using "open with" ... and selecting the
appropriate app, then it'll use whatever you last happened to use there as that
becomes your preferred opener of that type. you could beat your head against
the massive default applications dialog and manually select there mime type by
mime type... but just using efm is the simplest way...


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Re: [e-users] How to come back from suspend with a password

2018-11-02 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 16:01:59 +0100 Pierre Couderc  said:

> 
> On 11/2/18 2:49 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 14:13:26 +0100 Pierre Couderc  said:
> >
> >> I can  "systemctl suspend" in a terminogy console, but I would like
> >> that  password be asked when awaiking
> >>
> >> How to do that...?
> > e won't. e will do this all if you suspend via e. there are actions you can
> > bind to keys or other events to make suspend a single key press/binding if u
> > like.
> >
> >
> 
> Thank you, and how do I "suspend via e" ?

see e's binput settings - e.g key bindings, acpi bindings. under action ->
system are suspend, hibernate etc. ... select one of those.

> And how do I parametrize awaking ?

what do you mean?


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Re: [e-users] How to come back from suspend with a password

2018-11-02 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 14:13:26 +0100 Pierre Couderc  said:

> I can  "systemctl suspend" in a terminogy console, but I would like 
> that  password be asked when awaiking
> 
> How to do that...?

e won't. e will do this all if you suspend via e. there are actions you can
bind to keys or other events to make suspend a single key press/binding if u
like.


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Re: [e-users] Any known E22 graphics issues?

2018-10-31 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 06:51:24 +0100 "Roy Reese"  said:

> > Enviar: miércoles 31 de octubre de 2018 a las 0:10
> > De: "Roy Reese" 
> > Para: enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Asunto: [e-users] Any known E22 video issues?
> >
> > OK, this is about to deal with Java which is its own can of worms, but I
> > recently had to install a Java-based tax program here in Spain which
> > installs and runs perfectly on my small Mageia 6 (stable) laptop with E21,
> > but which has a completely transparent main window on my regular Mageia
> > Cauldron (development) laptop with E22. All the popup windows render
> > perfectly, but not the main one -- which creates a wee bit of a usability
> > issue.
> > 
> > The first suspect was a driver. However, by default Mageia installs a light
> > IceWM alongside the main DE . . . and the program works just fine in an
> > IceWM session in Cauldron -- pretty much narrowing it down to something not
> > playing nice with E22.
> > 
> > Are there any known graphics/rendering issues with E22 and some of the
> > latest packages (e.g., meson)? Any tips for tracking the problem down?
> > 
> > I know that the Mageia devs will soon be moving toward a freeze to get Mga7
> > out, so I would like to see if the problem can be isolated/fixed.
> > 
> > 
> Graphics issues, not video. I have to not write these things late at night.

try another  compositor - icewm is not a compositing wm. have your tried
resizing the window? restart e while it is up? (ctrl+alt+end)?

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Re: [e-users] efl.git Examples

2018-10-29 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 18:02:58 +0100 Marcel Hollerbach  said:

> Hello,
> 
> A while ago the examples from the efl.git repository were migrated to 
> examples.git [1]. However - right now the examples in the efl.git are 
> still there. Is it okay for everyone that we will remove those examples 
> from the main efl.git repository but have them in the examples.git ?
> 
> Greetings,
> bu5hm4n
> 
> [1]:https://git.enlightenment.org/tools/examples.git/

hmmm - these acted as nice build checks. having them out of the efl tree makes
that no longer be in sync... :/


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Re: [e-users] What are the 'Fast Effects' in Composite Settings

2018-10-23 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:47:36 +1100 Daniel Kasak  said:

> I assume this changes the quality of effects, but I can't tell whether
> enabling should make things faster, or assumes a faster GPU. I also can't
> tell any difference in performance or look :)

All of this requires the theme to support special groups for all of this to
have differing animations. This is good on one side - offers options to users,
but bad for complexity of theme and cost to make one etc.

Given the sheer size of themes these days I am tempted to nuke this feature. It
will reduce theme size and complexity, code as well.

It still can be done simply with themes designed to be "un-fancy" and they can
do no animations. But then un-fancy is bound together with look in a theme. A
this point it requires every theme to implement BOTH fancy/animated groups and
non-animated (fast) ones.

Possibly the right solution here is to tag specific programs (animation
transitions) in edje as "multipliable" and that tag then means edje itself will
multiply the transition time by a factor (and you make that factor 0 to turn
animations off, 0.5 to speed them up by 2x etc.). either way this would nuke
the vast majority of the code and turn it into a single edje call to set this
multiplier and maybe exposing that multiplier as a slider in e's gui... but
that is something for the future - the first step either way would be to remove
what is there.

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Re: [e-users] e22.3.0 windows/desktop focus problems in combination with recent nvidia drivers

2018-09-30 Thread The Rasterman
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 21:42:30 +0200 leoutat...@gmx.fr said:

> On 9/29/18 4:03 PM, minimec wrote:
> 
> > A long time ago there was a build script, 'easy_e17.sh' it was called I
> > tnink, that checked the project tree for new code and compiled the
> > components accordingly. Would such a script still exist? Or what would be
> > your recommended way to compile enlightenment from source?
> > 
> Needs to install Arch. Some people may be interested, it works fine...
> Maintainer/packager, Raster himself
> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/efl-git/
> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/enlightenment-git/

yeah. i maintain those (poke me if something is wrong) - i keep the build
options at what i use and know works and so that means wayland also should work
with the efl+e aur packages (if it can work at all :) - e.g. won't work on
nvidia as nvidia chose not to use GBM like everyone else).

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Re: [e-users] e22.3.0 windows/desktop focus problems in combination with recent nvidia drivers

2018-09-28 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:59:59 +0200 minimec  said:

Input should have nothing to do with driver. it's unrelated to any video driver
(nvidia) code. This doesn't make sense... :/ It's something else.

So the first port of call is to look into if the latest efl + e from git master
still show the same issues, and then to hunt what they are. maybe latest efl
release (instead of efl git) plus e from git master. then we can narrow down
maybe if it's been fixed or if still there, what.

> My friends...
> 
> For a long time now I lived with some bugs with ubuntu 16.04 + e22.3.0
> (ppa) and a nvidia gtx1060, running the default ubuntu version of the
> proprietary nvidia driver, (nvidia-384). I was not able to do right clicks
> in some software (telegram-desktop) and had some 'ghosts' of closed or
> minimized applications in the pager and the window switcher. Also I lost
> focus on popup windows in some apps (gnome-screenshot). I could live with
> that... I have seen worse in my ~15(!) years of enlightenment usage.
> 
> Now I had to switch to the latest nvidia-396, because of some steam games I
> would like to play. Problems have become worse! Now I completely loose
> focus from time to time for the whole desktop. Although I can drag windows
> around and close them, I cannot open any enlightenment menu from the
> desktop with my mouse, I cannot type anymore (or only certain keys work).
> The only way to get focus back, is to switch to a console and back to X.
> 
> I have come to a point, where I really need your help. I cannot continue my
> enlightenment experience like that. My hope is that some of you might be
> aware of similar problems and are able to share their solution (nvidia GPU
> configuration) or enlightenment rendering settings.
> 
> If you don't have a solution for me, I probably need to step back to e17 in
> combination with bodhilinux or use a different window manager. Stepping
> back to nvidia-384 is a temporary solution maybe, but I would not be able
> to use my computer and GPU the way I want i to use, as I would not be able
> to play the games I want, that need a rather recent nvidia-driver.
> 
> Please help me. The e17 desktop was and still is an enlightenment for me. I
> cannot imagine living without it on a multi-screen setup.
> 
> sincerely yours...
> 
> minimec
> 
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
> 


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Re: [e-users] more mouse button bindings feature request

2018-09-27 Thread The Rasterman
On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 06:05:34 +0300 sergio  said:

> On 26/09/2018 13:38, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> 
> >> P.S.
> >> There no List-Id headers in your replies. So my sieve dosn't put them to
> >> separate folder and I'm not able to "reply to list".
> 
> > i "Reply to all"
> 
> I know.
> 
> > so you may be looking at the mail from me directly to. there should
> > also be mails from the list. that last one should have an list id
> > header. the first would be from me and thus not have one... it'll be
> > the cc line in my reply :)
> 
> But I receive only one mail, without list id.
> Looks like it's google magic which doesn't send me mail when I'm in cc.
> 
> I've replied to this letter with reply all. You are in cc. Check it 
> yourself.

i get 2. one with the list id and list signature and one without.. :) so look
at your mail client/provider for why you only see one... :)


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Re: [e-users] $QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME $QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE both set to gtk2

2018-09-27 Thread The Rasterman
On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 06:08:56 +0300 sergio  said:

> On 26/09/2018 16:37, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > maybe we should provide some options in e to set these to specific values
> > for user preferences
> 
> e should check existence of these variables and do not redefine them 
> with default settings!

history has been given as to why it does what it does, but for a better user
experience it should just be a gui config option to select from a list and e
just takes care of it so people don't need to know magic env vars and values.

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Re: [e-users] $QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME $QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE both set to gtk2

2018-09-26 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 12:36:53 +0100 Mick  said:

> On Monday, 24 September 2018 12:07:48 BST Mick wrote:
> > On Monday, 24 September 2018 06:34:35 BST Simon Lees wrote:
> > > On 18/09/2018 23:59, Mick wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, 18 September 2018 11:27:35 BST sergio wrote:
> > > >> On 18/09/2018 11:31, Mick wrote:
> > > >>> Where are QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME and QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE specified outside
> > > >>> the
> > > >>> GUI?  In ~/.bashrc?  Where could they be set for system wide settings?
> > > >> 
> > > >> QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE is not specified.
> > > >> 
> > > >> QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME is from /etc/X11/Xsession.d/99qt5ct, which
> > > >> rewrites
> > > > 
> > > >> nothing, and just adds:
> > > > OK, this file is not installed in gentoo.
> > > > 
> > > >> moreover, there is ~/.xsession for user settings
> > > > 
> > > > I tried unsetting $QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE in ~.xsession, but I still got
> > > > gtk2.
> > > > Then, set it to a blank value using e's Settings/Advanced/Environment
> > > > Variables and this time it took.  However, I'm still no closer to having
> > > > KDE applications launching with QT themes and icons, unless I launch
> > > > them
> > > > from within urxvt.
> > > 
> > > Setting it from enlightenment's environment variable section should
> > > work, the way its implemented at the moment is the least worst way we
> > > could come up with to not have all users Qt apps broken by default.
> > 
> > Yes, setting $QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE to a blank value using e's
> > Settings/Advanced/ Environment Variables works in clearing the default gtk2
> > value.
> > 
> > Adding the contents of the /etc/X11/Xsession.d/99qt5ct file Sergio mentioned
> > also works in defining $QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME as qt5ct.
> > 
> > What doesn't work is starting any KDE application and having it load the Qt
> > theme I have selected.  The only exception seems to be when I launch a KDE
> > application from within urxvt, whereby the Qt theme is respected and loads
> > as expected.
> > 
> > The urxvt terminal output where Qt theme works is this:
> > 
> > $ kwrite
> > qt5ct: using qt5ct plugin
> > QApplication: invalid style override passed, ignoring it.
> > qt5ct: D-Bus global menu: no
> > QXcbConnection: XCB error: 5 (BadAtom), sequence: 955, resource id: 0, major
> > code: 19 (DeleteProperty), minor code: 0
> > 
> > 
> > While the terminology/xterm output where Qt theme is ignored is this:
> > 
> > $ kwrite
> > QApplication: invalid style override passed, ignoring it.
> 
> Ha! Found the solution:
> 
> Removed the /etc/X11/Xsession.d/99qt5ct file which is not installed by
> default in Gentoo (may be a distro specific solution).
> 
> Used e's GUI to set both an empty QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE and QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME 
> as qt5ct.  Now Qt themes are recognised and loaded normally.  :-)

maybe we should provide some options in e to set these to specific values for
user preferences - we set it to gtk2 as this was the most common that allows
for the best seamless experience years ago. things change.

so could someone do a write-up of what env vars need to be set to what values to
get specific results?

e.g.

qt "kde look":
  QT_XXX_YYY=a
  QT_AAA_B=xyz

qt "upstream qt5 look":
  QT_XXX_YYY=b
  QT_AAA_B=efg

qt "mimic gtk2 look":
  QT_XXX_YYY=c
  QT_AAA_B=hij

qt "mimic gtk3 look":
  QT_XXX_YY=d
  QT_AA_B=lmn

... you get the idea. so we can present a list of 3,4 or 5 options for qt app
looks and then set env vars right.

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Re: [e-users] Enlightenment memory leaks?

2018-09-26 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 26 Sep 2018 13:37:42 +0200 leoutat...@gmx.fr said:

> On 9/26/18 12:04 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> 
> >>> you definitely have a leak. you want massif. so -massif option. then use
> >>> massif-visualizer to look at the trace and you'll see it probably going
> >>> "up and to the right". select a time point near the right/big end and
> >>> start digging through the tree of allocations (most of the mem allocs are
> >>> near the top). expand the trees for call traces. that there will begin to
> >>> give an idea of what is going on. you also will have learned a new
> >>> debugging technique :)
> >>>
> >> valgrind -massif log file is available here
> >> https://phab.enlightenment.org/T7410
> > 
> > private paste - but we don't want the log. we want the massif output file.
> > massif.out maybe or something (i have an alias that produces a specific one
> > for me). even then i'm not sure i can usefully open it on a different
> > system. i have never tried. thus massif-visualizer.
> > 
> > 
> My apologize, access paste is public, now. Of course, it's massif output 
> file, 'massif.out', you can get it.
> 'e-valgrind-massif.log' file has never been created, it's mistake.
> Massif created a massif.out automatically.

It's still private. :(

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Re: [e-users] Enlightenment memory leaks?

2018-09-26 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 26 Sep 2018 12:10:06 +0200 Vincent Torri  said:

> On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 12:05 PM Carsten Haitzler 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 21:43:29 +0200 leoutat...@gmx.fr said:
> >
> > > On 9/25/18 9:37 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 14:31:24 +0200 leoutat...@gmx.fr said:
> > > >
> > > >> On 9/24/18 7:41 AM, Simon Lees wrote:
> > > >>> For a bit more info, whats the memory usage after 10 minutes and after
> > > >>> 8-12 hrs, it is likely that as you run more programs e needs to use
> > > >>> more memory, so having a couple more data points would be useful.
> > > >>
> > > >> I only run firefox, thunderbird, terminology and sometimes, pcmanfm.
> > > >> Resident memory increases hugely from 2 hours.
> > > >> My efl + enlightenment (Raster is the maintainer) and terminology:
> > > >> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/efl-git/
> > > >> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/enlightenment-git/
> > > >> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/terminology-git/
> > > >> In the same time, enlightenment-git-debug efl-git-debug
> > > >> terminoly-git-debug are installed.
> > > >> How can I debug this memory leak?
> > > >> With valgrind? Which option? Only '-valgrind=4' check leak or
> > > >> '-valgrind=all' ?
> > > >
> > > > you definitely have a leak. you want massif. so -massif option. then use
> > > > massif-visualizer to look at the trace and you'll see it probably going
> > > > "up and to the right". select a time point near the right/big end and
> > > > start digging through the tree of allocations (most of the mem allocs
> > > > are near the top). expand the trees for call traces. that there will
> > > > begin to give an idea of what is going on. you also will have learned a
> > > > new debugging technique :)
> > > >
> > > valgrind -massif log file is available here
> > > https://phab.enlightenment.org/T7410
> >
> > private paste - but we don't want the log. we want the massif output file.
> > massif.out maybe or something (i have an alias that produces a specific one
> > for me). even then i'm not sure i can usefully open it on a different
> > system. i have never tried. thus massif-visualizer.
> 
> it would be nice to have a massif visualizer in EFL :)

I believe you just volunteered for it! :) heheheheh

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Re: [e-users] Enlightenment memory leaks?

2018-09-26 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 21:43:29 +0200 leoutat...@gmx.fr said:

> On 9/25/18 9:37 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 14:31:24 +0200 leoutat...@gmx.fr said:
> > 
> >> On 9/24/18 7:41 AM, Simon Lees wrote:
> >>> For a bit more info, whats the memory usage after 10 minutes and after
> >>> 8-12 hrs, it is likely that as you run more programs e needs to use more
> >>> memory, so having a couple more data points would be useful.
> >>
> >> I only run firefox, thunderbird, terminology and sometimes, pcmanfm.
> >> Resident memory increases hugely from 2 hours.
> >> My efl + enlightenment (Raster is the maintainer) and terminology:
> >> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/efl-git/
> >> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/enlightenment-git/
> >> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/terminology-git/
> >> In the same time, enlightenment-git-debug efl-git-debug
> >> terminoly-git-debug are installed.
> >> How can I debug this memory leak?
> >> With valgrind? Which option? Only '-valgrind=4' check leak or
> >> '-valgrind=all' ?
> > 
> > you definitely have a leak. you want massif. so -massif option. then use
> > massif-visualizer to look at the trace and you'll see it probably going "up
> > and to the right". select a time point near the right/big end and start
> > digging through the tree of allocations (most of the mem allocs are near
> > the top). expand the trees for call traces. that there will begin to give
> > an idea of what is going on. you also will have learned a new debugging
> > technique :)
> > 
> valgrind -massif log file is available here 
> https://phab.enlightenment.org/T7410

private paste - but we don't want the log. we want the massif output file.
massif.out maybe or something (i have an alias that produces a specific one
for me). even then i'm not sure i can usefully open it on a different system. i
have never tried. thus massif-visualizer.


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Re: [e-users] Enlightenment memory leaks?

2018-09-25 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 14:31:24 +0200 leoutat...@gmx.fr said:

> On 9/24/18 7:41 AM, Simon Lees wrote:
> > For a bit more info, whats the memory usage after 10 minutes and after
> > 8-12 hrs, it is likely that as you run more programs e needs to use more
> > memory, so having a couple more data points would be useful.
> 
> I only run firefox, thunderbird, terminology and sometimes, pcmanfm.
> Resident memory increases hugely from 2 hours.
> My efl + enlightenment (Raster is the maintainer) and terminology:
> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/efl-git/
> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/enlightenment-git/
> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/terminology-git/
> In the same time, enlightenment-git-debug efl-git-debug 
> terminoly-git-debug are installed.
> How can I debug this memory leak?
> With valgrind? Which option? Only '-valgrind=4' check leak or 
> '-valgrind=all' ?

you definitely have a leak. you want massif. so -massif option. then use
massif-visualizer to look at the trace and you'll see it probably going "up and
to the right". select a time point near the right/big end and start digging
through the tree of allocations (most of the mem allocs are near the top).
expand the trees for call traces. that there will begin to give an idea of what
is going on. you also will have learned a new debugging technique :)

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Re: [e-users] more mouse button bindings feature request

2018-09-18 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 22:00:56 +0300 sergio  said:

> On 17/09/2018 20:45, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> 
> >> 1. right (or some other) button hold + scroll
> > 
> > in apps? this is up to widget sets/apps to do. wm's don't do this. efl
> > doesn't support this - but it has wheel support already and regular left
> > click+drag support for touch...
> 
> In my imagination it was "Any" "Action Context".

there is a dividing line between what wm's can and do do and what is sensible
to do and then what "apps" do (app here being an x client with a regular app in
it where most of the time it is a toolkit library like gtk, qt or efl handling
events and what to do with them). what you describe above is squarely in the
"up to the app" land.

> >> 2. right button press -> left button press -> right button release ->
> >> left button release
> >> 3. 2 vice versa
> 
> > what is that meant to do?
> 
> press (and hold) mouse button 3, than press (and hold) mouse button 1, 
> than release mouse button 3, than release mouse button 1
> 
> xev:
> 
> ButtonPress event, serial 39, synthetic NO, window 0x281,
>  root 0x6b8, subw 0x0, time 517114277, (117,135), root:(919,165),
>  state 0x0, button 3, same_screen YES
> 
> ButtonPress event, serial 39, synthetic NO, window 0x281,
>  root 0x6b8, subw 0x0, time 517115037, (117,135), root:(919,165),
>  state 0x400, button 1, same_screen YES
> 
> ButtonRelease event, serial 39, synthetic NO, window 0x281,
>  root 0x6b8, subw 0x0, time 517115549, (117,135), root:(919,165),
>  state 0x500, button 3, same_screen YES
> 
> ButtonRelease event, serial 39, synthetic NO, window 0x281,
>  root 0x6b8, subw 0x0, time 517116053, (117,135), root:(919,165),
>  state 0x100, button 1, same_screen YES
> 
> 
> I'd like to switch desktops with mouse only. With full-screen windows 
> without panels.

this is a really nasty thing to do.we'd have to trap left and right mouse in
all contexts. it will work in a smallish subset of cases (e.g. this mail i'm
typing now, right mouse opens up a context menu that the app/toolkit is
handling... after that the mouse will be grabbed and the wm will never see/get
the left click). in the case of chromium since it is its own toolkit, the left
click after right is down will dismiss the menu... but as this is also trapped
by chromium... it won't get to the wm... so again - won't work.

in wayland we could do this as all input goes through the compositor... but
that is a separate matter and i'm not sure you're using wayland yet... :)

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Re: [e-users] more mouse button bindings feature request

2018-09-17 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 05:10:44 +0300 sergio  said:

> 
> Please add support for:
> 
> 1. right (or some other) button hold + scroll

in apps? this is up to widget sets/apps to do. wm's don't do this. efl doesn't
support this - but it has wheel support already and regular left click+drag
support for touch...

> 2. right button press -> left button press -> right button release -> 
> left button release
> 3. 2 vice versa

what is that meant to do?

> -- 
> sergio.
> 
> 
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Re: [e-users] System Tray

2018-09-15 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 18:47:59 +0200 "Roy Reese"  said:

> > Enviar: sábado 8 de septiembre de 2018 a las 11:59
> > De: "Simon Lees" 
> > Para: enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Asunto: Re: [e-users] System Tray
> >
> > > 
> > > 1) Does the E systray support appindicator notifications X?
> > > 
> > 
> > Yes, but you might need to enable the systray module and add the gadget
> > to your shelf.
> 
> Yes, that I have had.
> 
> > 
> > > 2) a. If so, what packages apart from application-specific indicators are
> > > needed to implement it properly?
> > > 
> > If your distro is set up correctly you shouldn't need anything it should
> > just work, last time I checked some distro's weren't carrying all the
> > patches required for at least Qt4 apps.
>  
> Thanks for the information on Qt, Simon. vlc has shown up in both mga6 and
> mga7. Qt apps are not the only ones affected, as I cannot get the Pidgin
> plugin working with the systray for some reason (will ask in the distro),
> along with a few other things. After looking around a bit just now it seems
> that things are still a mess, with some older apps having either no
> appindicator compatible solution or one designed for Ubuntu/Debian, e.g.,
> there is a PPA for parcellite with no source code.

well it's actually Ubuntu's Unity that pushed appindicator from memory... so a
solution for that would work fine I believe.

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Re: [e-users] Beta API tutorial GUI demo, untidiness

2018-09-15 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 03 Sep 2018 13:35:46 +0200 Peter Kollner  said:

> Hi!
> 
> I have just built the example GUI application from 
> https://www.enlightenment.org/develop/tutorials/c/hello-world-gui.md 
> (first step by step,
> then to verify just copied the complete code directly) on a current efl 
> 1.21.0/enlightenment 0.22.4
> The window opens and the display looks fine, but when I close it, I 
> always get the error messages below.
> 
> This looks like there is some initialization / cleanup code missing, but 
> the eina_btlog output does not really say too much about the actual 
> reason.
> Any ideas? I guess the tutorial needs some minor updating, somewhere

No - it's fine in this regard (the tutorial). It's something inside EFL that is
hitting an invalid object. Unfortunately the "hex dumps" are useless to
mail you really need to use eina_btlog as described to turn it into usable
text. EFL does not go do this by default because it's rather costly to do, so
doing it every time we dump this to stderr is not a good idea. We leave it to
you to do when you want to know what that backtrace says or share it with
others, but I can reproduce it.

> Cheers
>Peter
> 
> 
> 
> $ ./hello-world
> ERR<18491>:eo lib/eo/eo_base_class.c:683 efl_del() Eo ID 0x40031b80 
> is not a valid object. Current thread: main. This ID has probably been 
> deleted or this was never a valid object ID. (domain=0, 
> current_domain=0, local_domain=0, available_domains=[0 1], 
> generation=380, id=c6, ref=1)
> ## Copy & Paste the below (until EOF) into a terminal, then hit Enter
> 
> eina_btlog << EOF
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.1  0x7f01af771ec6 0x7f01af748000
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.1  0x7f01af772b68 0x7f01af748000
> /usr/local/lib/libeina.so.1  0x7f01af774077 0x7f01af748000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7e974a 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7f1a7e 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libelementary.so.10x7f01aef90744 0x7f01aecd6000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7eb294 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7f144f 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7f1794 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7ea90c 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7f1aa2 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libelementary.so.10x7f01aef56768 0x7f01aecd6000
> /usr/local/lib/libevas.so.1  0x7f01ae65c7e4 0x7f01ae5c3000
> /usr/local/lib/libevas.so.1  0x7f01ae65c7e4 0x7f01ae5c3000
> /usr/local/lib/libevas.so.1  0x7f01ae65f509 0x7f01ae5c3000
> /usr/local/lib/libevas.so.1  0x7f01ae64f3e5 0x7f01ae5c3000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7eb404 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7eb404 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7f117f 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7f1794 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7ea90c 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7f1aa2 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libevas.so.1  0x7f01ae65d0ee 0x7f01ae5c3000
> /usr/local/lib/libevas.so.1  0x7f01ae65d199 0x7f01ae5c3000
> /usr/local/lib/libevas.so.1  0x7f01ae65c7e4 0x7f01ae5c3000
> /usr/local/lib/libevas.so.1  0x7f01ae65c7e4 0x7f01ae5c3000
> /usr/local/lib/libevas.so.1  0x7f01ae65f509 0x7f01ae5c3000
> /usr/local/lib/libevas.so.1  0x7f01ae64f3e5 0x7f01ae5c3000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7eb404 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7f117f 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7f1794 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7ea90c 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7f1aa2 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libelementary.so.10x7f01aef67f23 0x7f01aecd6000
> /usr/local/lib/libevas.so.1  0x7f01ae65c7e4 0x7f01ae5c3000
> /usr/local/lib/libevas.so.1  0x7f01ae65f509 0x7f01ae5c3000
> /usr/local/lib/libevas.so.1  0x7f01ae64f3e5 0x7f01ae5c3000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7eb404 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7eb404 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7f117f 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7f1794 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7ea90c 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libeo.so.10x7f01ad7f1aa2 0x7f01ad7d9000
> /usr/local/lib/libelementary.so.10x7f01aef61668 0x7f01aecd6000
> /usr/local/lib/libelementary.so.10x7f01aeebfb2e 0x7f01aecd6000
> /home/peter/projects/efl/test/hello-world0x559e24a4189f 
> 0x559e24a4
> /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6  0x7f01af9fc2e1 0x7f01af9dc000
> /home/peter/projects/efl/test/hello-world0x559e24a413ba 
> 0x559e24a4
> EOF
> 
> ERR<18491>:eo lib/eo/eo_base_class.c:683 efl_del() Eo ID 0x4003177f 
> is not a valid object. Current thread: main. This ID has probably been 
> deleted or this was never a 

Re: [e-users] Battery indicator

2018-09-12 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 14:08:00 +0100 Peter Flynn  said:

> The battery indicator in my shelf/bryce is stuck on max. I've been using
> this laptop all morning, and it still says I have a fully-charged
> battery, which is obviously incorrect.
> 
> It's a Dell XPS 15 running Mint 18 and e 0.22.3 from the
> ppa:niko2040/e19 repo.
> 
> I don't know what the indicator tests, but from experience when the
> battery does get down to zero, the system goes black and dies without
> warning, so the laptop is presumably providing the information in a
> different place to the one expected, or has otherwise changed the way it
> does power management.
> 
> Is there something I should be looking for?

I haven't seen that before... is this shelf or the new bryce one?

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Re: [e-users] System Tray

2018-09-09 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 7 Sep 2018 18:22:56 +0200 "Roy Reese"  said:

> > Enviar: lunes 6 de agosto de 2018 a las 11:05
> > De: "yurwpjt via enlightenment-users"
> >  Para:
> > "enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net"
> >  CC: yurwpjt
> >  Asunto: [e-users] System Tray
> >
> > Is there any way to use default enlightenment system tray? Or how can i use
> > stalonetray on enlightenment shelf?
> > 
> > 
> I am just catching up with mailing lists, but this is an unanswered question
> I have raised in the past given that E dropped support for Xembed back in
> E20. AFAIK there is no way to get stalonetray on a shelf. I have it running
> for a couple of applications in the upper left corner of the screen where it
> does not bother anything.
> 
> However, that solution does not solve the problem for applications which have
> shifted to appindicator notifications, such as the update notifications in my
> current distro (Mageia). So to rephrase the question for the list regarding
> the use of the E system tray in X, let me try with a two-part question:
> 
> 1) Does the E systray support appindicator notifications X?

yes. appindicator dbus protocol is supported. steam uses this and it works.

> 2) a. If so, what packages apart from application-specific indicators are
> needed to implement it properly?

it's up to toolkits/apps to support appindicator protocol. there was something
that converts some old xmbed tray usage to appindicator - maybe it was qt
something with "sni" in it... i don't know.  google for it. :)

>b. If not, what is needed to have systray notifications?
> 
> 
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Re: [e-users] Removing gadgets from desktop

2018-08-23 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:51:22 +0100 Peter Flynn  said:

> On 21/08/18 03:30, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 00:02:33 +0100 Peter Flynn  said:
> > 
> >> Two recent annoyances:
> >>
> >> 1. I accidentally clicked on the Luncher Grid in Add Widgets to Desktop
> >> so it's sitting in the middle of my screen and I can't get rid of it:
> >> none of the mouse buttons do anything meaningful and DEL doesn't delete
> >> it. How do I get rid of it?
> > 
> > normally a right click would have a menu for the gadget and remove would be
> > in there...
> 
> Turns out Alt-rightclick brings up a menu
> 
> > don't use bryce. it has usability issues. 
> 
> It was recommended on this list and I've been using it for a year or so 
> without problems :-)

you hit one of the usability problems. it needs hidden bindings to use it (not
obvious/srtandard way of accessing the controls).to change size of a bryce you
need ctr mouse wheel... what if you don't have a mouse wheel? what if you don't
have a keyboard around (touch screen only)? these things need solving. i am
actually looking at doing just that.

> > what you are talking about was an
> > ibar gadget pre-configured in the shelf. 
> 
> No, when I install e, I get rid of the whole shelf/ibar thing, which is 
> horribly confusing and massively hard and time-consuming to configure, 
> and replace it with a bryce which works fine (except that I forget 
> occasionally how to reconfigure it, but that's a usability problem 
> inside my brain :-)

no. it's an issue with bryce as you have to be told about the magic keys"
needed to control it.

> > a bryce is empty there s you have it.
> > it needs stuff added. as i said - there are usability issues so i would not
> > recommend using them until they are solved. i certainly have tried bryce and
> > shouted at it, then deleted it. :)
> 
> Interesting. What are the usability issues you have encountered?

above. need alt+ left moue click+drag to move things around. right mouse on
most gadgets does something for the gadget and you cant access/control the bryce
(delete it etc.). right clicking on things has been a standard for decades as a
"get me context menu/controls". yes. that's not touch friendly which turned up
in linux much more recently than the shelf in e, bu solvable with a long-press
to do the same thing. needing alt/ctrl to do basic things is not good. a right
click/long press should always bring up some kind of context menu for such
controls, or they should be always visible and accessible (like titlebars on
windows are). the other is setting up of the gagdtes. you have a list of
tyhem my first reaction was to click and drag since i saw no other
indications that the gadget was checkmarked/selected to be there or other
buttons and i still do that even tho it's click+release, THEN you get a drag
happening, then you click on destination. making this work with a regular dnd
would make more sense and with a fallback to the current way of click+release
then click+release on destination if a dnd was not done.

> The only problem I had was on an old machine, possibly a timing error: 
> if you try to re-position an icon by clicking and dragging, the 
> surrounding icons don't move and redraw fast enough and e SIGSEVs and 
> you need to hit F1 very quickly. Otherwise I just run my frequent 
> applications, and right-click to get the + icon to add them.
> 
> Is there a schedule to replace ibar/shelf with an amended bryce? It's 
> basically a Mac dock where you can add icons and gadgets. It doesn't 
> need any more complexity than that.

its the same as the shelf really just with it being harder to use (as above).

> ///Peter
> 
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Re: [e-users] Removing gadgets from desktop

2018-08-20 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 00:02:33 +0100 Peter Flynn  said:

> Two recent annoyances:
> 
> 1. I accidentally clicked on the Luncher Grid in Add Widgets to Desktop 
> so it's sitting in the middle of my screen and I can't get rid of it: 
> none of the mouse buttons do anything meaningful and DEL doesn't delete 
> it. How do I get rid of it?

normally a right click would have a menu for the gadget and remove would be in
there... 

> 2. I installed e on a resurrected old machine the other day (all working 
> fine), but when I got rid of the taskbar or dock or whatever it's 
> called, and replaced it with a bryce, I now cannot add applications to 
> it. On all my other systems, if I execute an application (eg 
> Thunderbird), the application icon appears in the bryce, and I can 
> right-click and add it permanently. On this installation no icon 
> appears. How do I force an application icon to be added?

don't use bryce. it has usability issues. what you are talking about was an
ibar gadget pre-configured in the shelf. a bryce is empty there s you have it.
it needs stuff added. as i said - there are usability issues so i would not
recommend using them until they are solved. i certainly have tried bryce and
shouted at it, then deleted it. :)

> ///Peter
> 
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Re: [e-users] Help about .desktop file

2018-08-17 Thread The Rasterman
On Sun, 29 Jul 2018 18:38:30 +0200 Pierre Couderc  said:

> When I hoover over terminology icon in an ibar, I see the list of active 
> terminology windows.
> 
> I have made my own desktop file for my  app, it works but  the list of 
> active windows is not shown :

if you are using efl, the startup id tracking will automatically work and e
will know exactly which launch instance maps to that window. if not then i
don't know what you may have to do to make this work. it may require you
manually support the EWHM startup id protocol/property and env var.

alternatively try StartupWMClass in tynher desktop file

StartupWMClass=terminology

is there. see the WM_CLASS property:

WM_CLASS(STRING) = "main", "terminology"

it matches the 2nd (the class, the first is "name" of the window - not title).
class here would be some identifier for your app normally.

i think from memory e tries to match executable too is if you have WM_COMMAND
property set... then e will try and match this with the Exec field from the
desktop as well.

> nous@pcouderc:~$ cat /usr/local/share/applications/player-XP.desktop
> [Desktop Entry]
> Encoding=UTF-8
> Name=qemu XP
> Comment=Run XP
> Exec=perl /home/nous/qemu/xp/x.pl
> Terminal=false
> Type=Application
> Icon=/usr/local/share/icons/player-XP.png
> Categories=System;
> 
> Jow to ge tlthe list of open windows ?
> 
> (I do not suppose it is a e problem...)
> 
> Thanks
> 
> PC
> 
> 
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Re: [e-users] Help about .desktop file

2018-08-17 Thread The Rasterman
On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:38:40 +0200 Pierre Couderc  said:

> On 08/16/2018 08:17 AM, Daniel Kasak wrote:
> > I'm not 100% sure how this works, but you should check that your .desktop
> > file has an entry for 'StartupWMClass'. Run your app, then run ( from a
> > terminal ) 'xprop'. Click the app. Your xprop app should report some stuff,
> > including WM_CLASS. Copy one of the quoted strings into your .desktop file.
> > I *think* that should make it work. But again, I'm not sure.
> >
> > Dan
> Thnk you very much. But it is not enough...
> I have found with xprop that my :
> WM_CLASS(STRING) = "qemu-system-x86_64", "qemu-system-x86_64"
> 
> and I did add StartupWMClassin my desktop file :
> 
> [Desktop Entry]
> Encoding=UTF-8
> Name=VMware XP
> Comment=Run XP
> Exec=perl /home/nous/qemu/xp/x.pl
> Terminal=false
> Type=Application
> Icon=/usr/local/share/icons/vmware-player-XP.png
> StartupWMClass="qemu-system-x86_64"
> Categories=System;
> 
> But still, when I hoover over the icon in the ibar, the list of open 
> windows does not appear. But the "blue dot" appears

the blue dot means e knows something executed and is still running that
launched from that ibar icon. so until the process dies, that blue dot stays :)
try remove the quotes on StartupWMClass ?

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Re: [e-users] Compositor restarts on certain menu selection

2018-08-08 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 19:58:11 +0100 Mick  said:

> I'm trying to fathom what's causing e to restart every time I hover my mouse 
> towards the main menu's Applications/System/
> 
> .xsession-errors shows:
> 
> PAUSE !

that's a crash. do you have ~/.e-crashdump.txt ? do your efl and e binaries
have debug symbols? gdb installed? 

> org.kde.knotifications: warning: failed to connect to ActionInvoked dbus 
> signal
> org.kde.knotifications: warning: failed to connect to NotificationClosed dbus 
> signal
> action halt 3
> action reboot 3
> action suspend 3
> action hibernate 3
> 
> 
> The same thing happens if I go to Settings Panel/Apps and click on any of the 
> selections therein.  The first application on the list seems to be Aqemu, 
> which when launched from a terminal results in a string of messages:
> 
> $ aqemu 
> qt5ct: using qt5ct plugin
> QApplication: invalid style override passed, ignoring it.
> 
> AQEMU Warning [2] >>>
> Sender: bool Emulator::Load( const QString  )
> Message: No "qemu-system-arm" element!
> 
> AQEMU Warning [3] >>>
> Sender: bool Emulator::Load( const QString  )
> Message: No "qemu-system-cris" element!
> 
> AQEMU Warning [4] >>>
> Sender: bool Emulator::Load( const QString  )
> Message: No "qemu-system-m68k" element!
> 
> [snip ...]
> 
> with this one being the only error message shown in red:
> 
> AQEMU Error [35] >>>
> Sender: void Virtual_Machine::Set_Icon_Path( const QString _name )
> Message: File name is empty!
> 
> Could it be caused by some dodgy .desktop file?
> 
> 
> PS. I'm on enlightenment-22.3 and efl-1.20.7-r1 running on gentoo.
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> Mick
> --
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Re: [e-users] File Search through Everything launcher

2018-08-08 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 21:21:28 +0200 Diego Cardinali
 said:

in everything there is a files plugin (crl+left/right arrows to navigate to
plugins), select it then type a directory or file name - it's relative to $HOME
and navigate from there.

TBH this probably should use EFM so the views are consistent etc. but it
doesn't. i might actually add some everything like hotkey navigation to efm.
it shouldn't be too hard.

it does NOT have a fill index of all files thus you can't just search for
anything anywhere. it navigates as you type. you can start from / if you
type / ...  and so on.

> Hi to all users!
> I've been trying to use Enlightenment for a couple of days and I find the
> whole environment quite lightweight and interesting,  so thanks to all the
> developers!
> 
> A function that I did not manage to find is the file search from the
> everything launcher. I think it only works with the files recently opened
> but not with the home folder data (music, videos and such),and I can't find
> any related documentation on such a matter.
> 
> Am I missing something or the function simply isn't available?
> 
> Thanks for your attention
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Re: [e-users] new windows/notifications displaying on top of xscreensaver

2018-08-01 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 16:25:23 -0700 Marc MERLIN  said:

> So, I'm still using xscreensaver (5.36-1)
> On my work system, when new windows or notifications get displayed
> (typically pidgin window, or chrome notification popup), they get displayed
> on top of xscreensaver.

can you click on them as you normally would be able to?

> Is that xscreensaver's fault, or the window manager's fault?
> 
> Thanks,
> Marc
> -- 
> "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
> Microsoft is to operating systems 
>    what McDonalds is to gourmet
> cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/  
> 
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Re: [e-users] Size of characters

2018-07-24 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 00:26:03 +0100 Peter Flynn  said:

> On 24/07/18 05:06, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 20:31:16 +0100 Peter Flynn  said:
> > 
> >> On 23/07/18 07:44, Pierre Couderc wrote:
> >>> I have many problems with "big" screens (in pixels 1920x1080). 
> >>> Characters are very small. It is easy to change this in e itself
> >>> using "scaling".
> 
> Right. But that setting does not persist into applications.

for efl apps it does as e will then modify elm's config.

> > actually no. this is where users and many toolkits and apps get it totally
> > wrong. so you specify font size. what about icons and other elements then?
> 
> They should stay the same size. This is where designers misunderstand
> the problem.

but they do not. incredibly often the do not.

> People with this class of visual impairment don't want to scale
> *everything* just in order to read the text. The icons and other screen
> furniture are already big enough to see. They want to increase the size
> of the text to one they can read, and have all applications obey that size.

that makes no sense. if text is too small to read then icons would be too as
they would have been designed to be recognizable at their original sizes. if
the same impairment (lack of acuity due to eye lenses no longer being able to
deform to focus, thus requiring glasses or contacts to correct which is by far
the most common form of vision impairment) would apply to icons and other
elements "becoming a blur".

> There are of course other classes of impairment in which the use may
> need everything scaled, but it is incorrect to assume that this is true
> for all cases.
> 
> > that is precisely why efl just uses a "scale" factor.[...] but this only
> > affects efl/e.
> 
> That's the second half of the problem. If I make a system setting like
> this, I expect ALL applications to obey it, otherwise it does not
> achieve anything.

every toolkit has its own custom config system as to dome apps (chrome for
example). feel free to provide patches that are acceptable per toolkit and keep
them up to date... :)

> > another way users/toolkits do this is "set dpi". you DO NOT SET dpi. dpi is
> > a property o the screen (and its current resolution). SETTING it to get
> > something to scale up is NOT right. 
> 
> Yes, this is the wrong solution.
> 
> > this why there has to be a separate sizing factor other than messing with
> > DPI, thus why efl uses a scale factor like above that is separate to dpi or
> > font sizing, because really... "everyone is doing it wrong" (to be super
> > simple about it). 
> 
> Yep.
> 
> > setting font size is wrong (for the purposes of "it's too small - i
> > need it bigger!"). 
> 
> What is the solution then? If I cannot read the text in thhe
> application, I must have a way to make it bigger ON ITS OWN. Scaling the
> whole window contents (like Ctrl+ in a browser) is NOT correct because
> that increases the size of the icons, images, and all the other stuff.

customize your fonts then, but this is not going to be the right solution for
the vast majority of use cases. if the photos and other images were legible to
someone with perfect vision as well as the text, now those same elements will
be degraded to someone with worse vision who is unable to read the text, thus
making them bigger to be as legible is the obvious thing to do. many photos
contain images of text... so you say - don't scale those up too? a photo of a
wall of graffiti ... or a photo that contains details such as peoples faces in
a scene and now they are just blurry and not recognizable faces... that's why
these size up too.

> +1 to all those blogs who provide a Text± adjustment!
> 
> > also font size is tightly tied to the font itself. at the
> > same size different fonts can be vastly different in "visual size".
> 
> True, but not "vastly" different except for display fonts. We're talking
> here about text fonts. The variation in cap height and x height wrt
> point size is clear, but the effect does not prevent font scaling from
> solving the problem of legibility.

but using font size as an indicator to scale other elements is wrong. it's
going to break. let's say the default font size is 10. a user sets it to 15 to
make text readable. does that mean i should scale icons by 1.5x too? you may
have adjusted the font size to 15 to just account for the fonts poor design to
make it "the same size" (core of the letters as opposed to fluff that extends
above/below etc.) the same size... font size is not a "i have a vision problem"
solution. it's just a "fix this font" 

Re: [e-users] Size of characters

2018-07-24 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:18:49 +0200 Pierre Couderc  said:

> 
> 
> On 07/24/2018 06:06 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> >
> > actually no. this is where users and many toolkits and apps get it totally
> > wrong. so you specify font size. what about icons and other elements then?
> > that is precisely why efl just uses a "scale" factor. a single number (1.0
> > being the default, 2.0 == 2x as big etc.) where everything that can scale is
> > multiplied by that value, and that value is farmed out to the user to decide
> > what works best for them. enlightenment has an option to calculate the scale
> > factor based on dpi (with a base dpi of X == 1.0) using the real physical
> > dpi to do it. this is one of the first questions enlightenment asks in its
> > wizard giving you a whole bunch of options to choose from with previews so
> > you pick what looks right. but this only affects efl/e.
> >
> > another way users/toolkits do this is "set dpi". you DO NOT SET dpi. dpi is
> > a property o the screen (and its current resolution). SETTING it to get
> > something to scale up is NOT right. now, if you do, apps that want to
> > actually display something at a specific physical size on the screen
> > (15x33mm for example) can't because dpi is now wrong. dpi is directly
> > related to screen size, and querying screen size is now no longer a way to
> > figure out what kind of screen you might have (~32"+ tv? desktop
> > (~19-30")?, laptop (~10-17"), tablet (~7-10")? phone(~3-7") etc. (yes.
> > things play guessorama based on these kinds of things to alter behaviour to
> > fit that kind of device, but if you fake dpi then these guesses are going
> > to be wrong).
> >
> >
> I fully agree and I illustrate it : my laptop is 14'' and 1920x1080, and 
> I have a second screen 24'' and 1920x1080 !!
> So "scale" factor is a good solution. But...
> It does not work : the scale factor should be different for each screen. 
> There is a "Scale" factor in the "Screen  Setup" but it has no effect 
> (in last git version).
> What do I miss ?

actually... this is possible. :) with efl+enlightenment it is. e will send
messages to the window to change scale factor *IF* you set up the screen with a
different scale factor in the screen setup dialog... the problem is this messes
up enlightenment right now as scale factor is "per process" as opposed to "per
parent object" (well actually it is per parent object but the way it's
implemented is problematic for e as it has a single window spanning both
screens...). check the screen setup dialog under "use profile". check it then
you can even select a whole different config profile for apps on that screen AND
optionally a custom scale factor... :) ... now drag window from screen to
screen.. :)

but this seems to have broken in current git though... it DID work when i wrote
this support...

-- 
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Re: [e-users] Size of characters

2018-07-23 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 20:31:16 +0100 Peter Flynn  said:

> On 23/07/18 07:44, Pierre Couderc wrote:
> > I have many problems with "big" screens (in pixels 1920x1080). 
> > Characters are very small. It is easy to change this in e itself
> > using "scaling".
> > 
> > But I have problems with many applications, vlc,thunderbird  for 
> > example. Maybe it is because I miss some freedesktop utility or
> > settings ?
> No, it's a permanent problem with Linux systems: there is no way to
> force individual applications to use a centrally-defined setting for
> sizes, colours, etc. This is a disaster for the visually-impaired.
> 
> The developers (or their frameworks) understandably believe that it is
> *their* responsibility to dictate the font size (and a lot of other UI
> parameters).
> 
> Unfortunately they have misunderstood: the better approach is to allow
> the USER to specify the font size globally, and have all applications
> respect it. Some apps do allow you to change font size; many do not; I

actually no. this is where users and many toolkits and apps get it totally
wrong. so you specify font size. what about icons and other elements then?
that is precisely why efl just uses a "scale" factor. a single number (1.0
being the default, 2.0 == 2x as big etc.) where everything that can scale is
multiplied by that value, and that value is farmed out to the user to decide
what works best for them. enlightenment has an option to calculate the scale
factor based on dpi (with a base dpi of X == 1.0) using the real physical dpi
to do it. this is one of the first questions enlightenment asks in its wizard
giving you a whole bunch of options to choose from with previews so you pick
what looks right. but this only affects efl/e.

another way users/toolkits do this is "set dpi". you DO NOT SET dpi. dpi is a
property o the screen (and its current resolution). SETTING it to get
something to scale up is NOT right. now, if you do, apps that want to actually
display something at a specific physical size on the screen (15x33mm for
example) can't because dpi is now wrong. dpi is directly related to screen
size, and querying screen size is now no longer a way to figure out what kind
of screen you might have (~32"+ tv? desktop (~19-30")?, laptop (~10-17"),
tablet (~7-10")? phone(~3-7") etc. (yes. things play guessorama based on these
kinds of things to alter behaviour to fit that kind of device, but if you
fake dpi then these guesses are going to be wrong).

this why there has to be a separate sizing factor other than messing with DPI,
thus why efl uses a scale factor like above that is separtate to dpi or font
sizing, because really... "everyone is doing it wrong" (to be super simple
about it). setting font size is wrong (for the purposes of "it's too small - i
need it bigger!"). also font size is tightly tied to the font itself. at the
same size different fonts can be vastly different in "visual size". the letters
might be 1/4 the size visually given the same size for 2different fonts. try a
lot of fonts and find out, so you pair a font size + font so the combo "looks
right", then other than this, scale factor is probably the best solution, not
setting dpi.

> don't know of any which look to see if there is a global setting they
> can follow.
> 
> A frequent problem in usability tests is that the subject cannot see the
> material because the font size is too small and cannot be adjusted
> across all the applications uniformly: see
> https://www.nngroup.com/articles/let-users-control-font-size/
> 
> But until we get a legal challenge from the visually-impaired community
> under suitable legislation designed to enable them to use computers,
> this will not change. For some reason, developers believe that it's not
> their problem.

well TBH, i doubt that would work because there are OTHER methods to solve
this, like: just lower your resolution (brute force but will solve the
problem), or use a magnifier tool (of which plenty exist). it's not nice
solutions, but then most solutions for those impaired with something aren't
wonderful - they get the job done mostly.

but don't take the above as a disagreement that it's wrong to not be nice to
those visually impaired who need "stuff to be bigger". the right solution IMHO
is as above, and it's what EFL does, and at least across efl it works very well
(as basically everything that should scale is tagged to scale, and if something
was forgotten a report and a bug fix will solve it as its really a theme
matter to tag things right)

> e has a wonderful new-install-startup routine which lets you set the
> sizes of various things like windows and fonts (I can't remember if they
> can be set separately). It's a pity that other window managers hide this
> functionality or fail to provide it by default.

it's just a single size. it's intended for exactly the use cases you want -
"make stuff bigger so i can see it" and you are asked to just select the thing
that looks best to you. as above - it 

Re: [e-users] Size of characters

2018-07-23 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 11:25:19 +0200 Pierre Couderc  said:

> Thank you Mick, I try that.
> 
> Raster, please respect the old men... ;)

I'm old! well over the hill by now. :)

> 
> On 07/23/2018 11:09 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 09:16:04 +0100 Mick  said:
> >
> >> On Monday, 23 July 2018 07:44:29 BST Pierre Couderc wrote:
> >>> I have many problems with "big" screens (in pixels 1920x1080).
> >>> Characters are very small. It is easy to change this in e itself using
> >>> "scaling".
> >> Yep, I suffer the same here.  They say eye sight is the second thing to go
> >> with age ... I forget what is the first.  :-)
> >>
> >>
> >>> But I have problems with many applications, vlc,thunderbird  for
> >>> exemple. Maybe it is because I miss some freedesktop utility or settings ?
> >> Quite likely.  GTK and QT control the size of fonts in menus for individual
> >> applications.
> >>
> >>
> >>> I use e alone with a minimum debian system, without display manager, and
> >>> I think I miss some basic utilities. This is not a "e" question but I
> >>> need help
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> PC
> >> You need to install they configuration utilities for GTK/QT widgets.  For
> >> some reason they are broken on my system:
> >>
> >> $ qtconfig
> >> qtconfig: could not exec '/usr/lib64/qt5/bin/qtconfig': No such file or
> >> directory
> > what you said (above). these are specific to each toolkit and some apps wont
> > even respond to these (chromium for example wont be affected by qt or gtk
> > config - it does its own thing entirely).
> >
> > not what you said above with eyesight. mine is still just fine... :)
> >
> >
> 
> 
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Re: [e-users] Size of characters

2018-07-23 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 09:16:04 +0100 Mick  said:

> On Monday, 23 July 2018 07:44:29 BST Pierre Couderc wrote:
> > I have many problems with "big" screens (in pixels 1920x1080).
> > Characters are very small. It is easy to change this in e itself using
> > "scaling".
> 
> Yep, I suffer the same here.  They say eye sight is the second thing to go 
> with age ... I forget what is the first.  :-)
> 
> 
> > But I have problems with many applications, vlc,thunderbird  for
> > exemple. Maybe it is because I miss some freedesktop utility or settings ?
> 
> Quite likely.  GTK and QT control the size of fonts in menus for individual 
> applications.
> 
> 
> > I use e alone with a minimum debian system, without display manager, and
> > I think I miss some basic utilities. This is not a "e" question but I
> > need help
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > PC
> 
> You need to install they configuration utilities for GTK/QT widgets.  For
> some reason they are broken on my system:
> 
> $ qtconfig 
> qtconfig: could not exec '/usr/lib64/qt5/bin/qtconfig': No such file or 
> directory

what you said (above). these are specific to each toolkit and some apps wont
even respond to these (chromium for example wont be affected by qt or gtk
config - it does its own thing entirely).

not what you said above with eyesight. mine is still just fine... :) 


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Re: [e-users] Menu Editing

2018-07-15 Thread The Rasterman
On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 21:38:50 -0700 Drew  said:

> How to remove unwanted items from the menu, or move menu items to a different
> menu category?  Thank you.

which menu?

> Drew
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [e-users] Enlightenment Display Manager

2018-07-13 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 07:23:53 +0200 Pierre Couderc  said:

> 
> 
> On 06/19/2018 07:10 PM, neena reddy wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > What display manager does enlightenment use ?
> > I am trying to build enlightenment on wayland using yocto but the image
> > doesn't boot up.
> >
> Mmm, as no display manager is required, the question is : "why e does 
> not start" ?

i don't know... pwermissions? systemd not there? login on text console somehow
doesnt set up correct systemd login session? ...

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Re: [e-users] Stop in Meson build

2018-07-12 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 05:18:22 +0200 Pierre Couderc  said:

> 1- I get this kind of messages :
> 
> Library intl found: NO
> Header  has symbol "__UCLIBC__": NO
> Header  has symbol "__dietlibc__": NO
> Has header "CFBase.h": NO
> Has header "security/pam_appl.h": NO
> 
> Is there an howto to indicarte me how to react  ? I have found nothing 
> in the wiki
> 
> 2- I get :
> ERROR:  Problem encountered: PAM is not disabled and not found on 
> non-free+open BSD platforms
> 
> I understand that I shold either install PAM either diqble it in e.
> 
> Is there an howto o indicarte me how to disable it in e  ? I have found 
> nothing in the wiki

meson -Dpam=false

did you read the INSTALL file? it explains there...

> Thanks
> 
> PC
> 
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Re: [e-users] Preferences Not Working

2018-06-23 Thread The Rasterman
On Sat, 23 Jun 2018 00:11:54 -0700 Drew  said:

> E22.3 on Fedora 28 running on Dell 13 7000 Inspiron
> 
> Start -> Settings -> All -> Preferences -> any choice (except Elementary
> config) opens a Gnome window from System Settings but it's blank.  It has
> "Devices" in the top left corner but no content.   I get the same result if I
> go in through Start -> Run Everything

that section of e's settings is populated from .desktop files on the system. al
it does it run those tools listed in those desktop files. soit's running the
gnome tools... you'll have to take up the issue with the gnome people there if
they don't work outside of gnome.

> I have just run a complete update in Fedora.
> 
> I can't get at the settings for Touchpad to enable Tap to Click.
> 
> Help appreciated.  Thank you.
> 
> Drew
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [e-users] Enlightenment Display Manager

2018-06-20 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 20:48:32 +0200 "Roy Reese"  said:

> > Enviar: miércoles 20 de junio de 2018 a las 3:26
> > De: "Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)" 
> 
> > > What display manager does enlightenment use ?
> > > I am trying to build enlightenment on wayland using yocto but the image
> > > doesn't boot up.
> > 
> > e doesn't use a display manager. "provide your own" so to speak. i know that
> > for wayland such things are currently rare and my thoughts are to actually
> > roll this into enlightenment itself so it has a "login mode" of some sort
> > since this is common enough and e already has some infra (lock screen
> > handling for your password), and that any login manager really needs a lot
> > of the functions of a full desktop session (screen dimming, brightness,
> > multiple-screen configuration, suspend/resume/shutdown/reboot, bluetooth
> > controls to connect kbd/mouse etc.). It does need restrictions though so
> > someone can't do "bad things" to an un-logged-in system (e.g. disable
> > unpairing, powering off of bt device, most of e's main menu should not be
> > there, etc.).
> > 
> > -- 
> Is this why Entrance seems to be maintained no longer? I have not bothered to

Well I didn't write entrance... so they aren't connected. Entrance long ago was
due for a rewrite I think but I don't know what happened there.

The above has been new musings mostly because of Wayland and at least my desire
to have a "seamless experience" where your login manager can work properly
without X and then seamlessly fade out to black, then your full normal login
session begin and fade in from black. Entrance was definitely an X login
manager and even if the X bits were removed or made optional, it'd still then
have to add more and more of the features above that are already in E, and that
just doesn't make a lot of sense to do.

> try to bring it into Mageia, but my old Manjaro setup I had it working rather
> nicely, even grabbing backgrounds from the themes to use in it.
> 
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Re: [e-users] Enlightenment Display Manager

2018-06-20 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 12:10:46 -0500 neena reddy  said:

> Hi,
> 
> What display manager does enlightenment use ?
> I am trying to build enlightenment on wayland using yocto but the image
> doesn't boot up.

e doesn't use a display manager. "provide your own" so to speak. i know that
for wayland such things are currently rare and my thoughts are to actually roll
this into enlightenment itself so it has a "login mode" of some sort since this
is common enough and e already has some infra (lock screen handling for your
password), and that any login manager really needs a lot of the functions of a
full desktop session (screen dimming, brightness, multiple-screen
configuration, suspend/resume/shutdown/reboot, bluetooth controls to connect
kbd/mouse etc.). It does need restrictions though so someone can't do "bad
things" to an un-logged-in system (e.g. disable unpairing, powering off of bt
device, most of e's main menu should not be there, etc.).

-- 
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Re: [e-users] Shelf I-Bar Icon Animation

2018-06-16 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 07:37:30 -0700 Drew  said:

> Thank you Simon.  This suggestion from Jeremy worked:
> 
> "right click on an Icon -> IBar -> Settings
> you'll find what you need."
> 
> However, your offer was intriguing.  By nature I enjoy tinkering and I had a
> lot of fun messing with the  .css files in Cinnamon DE before migrating.  But
> be warned:  I am a relative neophyte in the world of Linux:  I am not a
> programmer, developer, sys admin or anything close to that.  I'm a quick
> study hobbyist near the bottom of a steep learning curve :)

themes for efl are a bit like css - maybe more powerful in various ways, and
thus complex and a large bucket of stuff to get into... :)

> Regards,
> Drew
> 
> 
>   On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 00:29:31 -0700 Simon Lees  wrote
>  
>  >  
>  >  
>  > On 12/06/18 11:02, Drew wrote: 
>  > > I'm very new to E0.22.1 running on Debian-testing and I'm still
>  > > exploring this extremely interesting DE.  One thing I can't find after
>  > > seemingly endless fumbling and searching is this: Icons in the shelf
>  > > animate when the cursor moves over them.  I like that.  But the name of
>  > > the app also pops up and gets in the way.  How to turn that feature off?
>  > > Thanks and regards, 
>  > > Drew 
>  >  
>  > Unfortunately I suspect the only way currently is hacking up the theme 
>  > so it doesn't show it anymore, if you'd like to dive down the deap hole 
>  > that is theme hacking i'm happy to help you. 
>  >  
>  > --  
>  >  
>  > Simon Lees (Simotek)http://simotek.net 
>  >  
>  > Emergency Update Team   keybase.io/simotek 
>  > SUSE Linux   Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 
>  > GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B 
>  >  
>  > 
> --
>  
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Re: [e-users] Enlightenment 0.22 slow on Debian 9 running in VirtualBox

2018-06-16 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 14:21:30 +0200 Daniel-Constantin Mierla 
said:

> Hello,
> 
> I run VirtualBox (v5.2.12) with Debian 9.4 (current stable) hosted on a
> MacOS High Sierra (macbook pro 2016).The VM is configured with 2CPUs,
> 4GB memory and 64MB video memory. Enlightenment 0.22 is installed from
> Debian Testing repository.
> 
> When using Enlightenment, all GUI operations are slow, like: moving a
> window on screen, scrolling a web page in Firefox, scrolling the output
> of terminology, ...
> 
> I tried it with lxdm, lightdm and gdm3, no significant difference in
> speed. The thing making me thinking something might be wrong in terms of
> settings is that the same system with Gnome3 (gdm3) is working way
> better (not feeling any slowness), although it uses more memory and more
> CPU. Terminology is also working very smooth in Gnome3.
> 
> Did anyone else experience something similar? Any tips for tuning
> Enlightenment, Operating System or VirtualBox settings for better
> performances? Suggestions how to troubleshoot further?

gl or software compositing in e? if gl - then is efl built for egl+gles or
opengl? perhaps the gl libs it is built for are software gl libs (opengl is hw
accelerated but gl+gles is software?). follow the breadcrumbs.

> Cheers,
> Daniel
> 
> -- 
> Daniel-Constantin Mierla
> www.twitter.com/miconda -- www.linkedin.com/in/miconda
> 
> 
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Re: [e-users] Moving between desktops

2018-06-02 Thread The Rasterman
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 23:54:09 +0100 Peter Flynn  said:

> I have four desktops configured and I use Ctrl-Alt left/right to
> navigate between them. I can also do it by sliding the mouse off the
> right or left edge, but that's very rare for me.
> 
> At the moment it's far too easy to accidentally go to the next desktop
> if the pointer hits the edge of the current one. It's compounded by the
> fact that the pointer automatically goes to the centre of the new
> desktop instead of the edge where it entered, making it tedious to move
> back.

ummm it should be going to the opposite edge not the center. so basically to
keep switching in that direction, you keep moving the mouse one whole screen at
a time.

> How can I make the delay time between desktops longer (much longer,
> maybe 500ms) when it's due to the mouse movement? Or perhaps make it the
> same value as the delay before raising a window, if you have auto-rais
> and focus-follows-mouse enabled. That would at least be consistent from
> a usability point of view.

under sttings -> input -> edge bindings. select each binding and modify it to
have a longer timeout. each edge can have a different timeout if you want. e.g.
make left+right easier and up/down much harder to do.

> ///Peter
> 
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Re: [e-users] No menus when using Renoise 3.1.0

2018-06-02 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:43:32 -0700 gr...@iowntheinter.net said:

> When I attempt to use Renoise 3.1.0 under Enlightenment 0.22.3 on Ubuntu 
> 18.04 (Installed from ppa:niko2040/e19 )
> clicking on any menu { File, Edit, View ... }  does not open a menu, it 
> does nothing.
> The menus do work under Fluxbox.
> I have raised an issue in their forum
> http://forum.renoise.com/index.php/topic/51646-menus-file-edit-view-do-not-work-in-ubuntu-1804-under-enlightenment-0223-window-manager/
> 
> Is there anything I can do in E to gather debugging information to 
> report to the Renoise team? I dont see any errors in the Renoise console 
> log, and since its a closed source application I cant dig into it.

there wont be any info from e really - it'd be internals and adding printfs to
find it.

more questions for now - is the window fullscreen or not? does it happen when
not fullscreen? i suspect this is a stacking issue and e has had them before
where windows that should be on top were not, so open the menu (which you cant
see) and use the keyboard to navigate the "invisible menu" e.g. down arrow once
or twice, and select a "safe option" you know will not do anything bad and will
have a result. (hit enter probably to activate it). look at the menu elsewhere
to figure out what is in it so you know how many downs are needed. does it
work? this would indicate there is a menu but it's not visible to you. then
it's almost definitely an e problem.

also try make the window very very small if you can so that maybe the menus
extend beyond the window size so maybe you can see them underneath the main
window...

have you tried other apps? what toolkit does renoise use? tried other apps that
share the same toolkit that have menus?

> 
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Re: [e-users] No menus when using Renoise 3.1.0

2018-06-02 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:43:32 -0700 gr...@iowntheinter.net said:

ok. downloaded it. i see what you see - no menus. visually it looks like they
don't use a toolkit - they did their own. a bit of poking at renoise... it does
odd things.

1. it grabs the keyboard when focused so no wm kbd shortcuts work.
2. all window moves and resizes are done by the renoise client, not wm, so any
wm rules like edge resistance handling, etc. wont be followed
3. the grabbng disables e's alt+left mouse to move and alt+right mouse menu and
alt+middle for resize. breaking much from many wm's in this regard
4. alt-tab is broken as since it's grabbed the kbd renoise iconifies itself
instead of the alt+tab switcher being brought up as normal when you tab-away
from it
5. alt+click or any click doesn't raise the window... so no way to actually
raise it to the top it seems

so first - renoise does some odd and weird things...

i've done some initial checking - renoise does create a window that is stacked
on top for the menu at the right geometry. now some digging... renoise sets the
netwm opacity hint on menus... and this seems to have found a bug in our code
of reading of the opacity value. we don't convert it correctly back to our
0-255 range we use in our objects from 0-4billion (unsinged int) for the
opacity property. it looks like renoise wants the window just slightly
transparent... it just so happened that the value it asked for mapped right to
0 as an alpha value... thus no menu. well it is there just a transparency of 0.
so not a stacking problem as i first thought. i fixed it. pushed a commit to e
git master. menus display for me now. thanks for this nice corner-case!

commit/patch here:
https://git.enlightenment.org/core/enlightenment.git/commit/?id=f3457218975679cd5d878496f06caa76a9464ba2

...

i downloaded some songs for renoise to test it out. it's actually a decent
tracker. this takes me back to my modding days with sounddtracker, protracker
and then some fastracker2 (unde dosbox in linux by then) when i composed music
from samples i collected... it has been on a long list of mine to one day write
a tracker again for the "modern world". :) renoise is surprisingly decent other
than its annoying quirks above.

really cool if you are messing with modes and renoise to do some music. renoise
is also nice and dark grey like e out of the box... :) it fits in almost
perfectly for me even though the ui is totally custom. the general ui screams of
lots of powerful tools and options wrapped around ye olde tracker ui/design
which is almost perfect for me. :)

> When I attempt to use Renoise 3.1.0 under Enlightenment 0.22.3 on Ubuntu 
> 18.04 (Installed from ppa:niko2040/e19 )
> clicking on any menu { File, Edit, View ... }  does not open a menu, it 
> does nothing.
> The menus do work under Fluxbox.
> I have raised an issue in their forum
> http://forum.renoise.com/index.php/topic/51646-menus-file-edit-view-do-not-work-in-ubuntu-1804-under-enlightenment-0223-window-manager/
> 
> Is there anything I can do in E to gather debugging information to 
> report to the Renoise team? I dont see any errors in the Renoise console 
> log, and since its a closed source application I cant dig into it.
> 
> 
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Re: [e-users] Terminology Settings Not Sticking

2018-05-30 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 30 May 2018 13:01:52 -0700 Drew  said:

> E 0.22.1-3 and Terminology 1.2.1-1 installed from Debian-Testing repo,
> running on an ASUS X200CA laptop.
> 
> 
> 
> Right click in window  Themes: 
> 
> File  Align: 
> 
> 
> 
> In both cases the selection won't stick and reverts to default setting when
> Terminology is closed and then re-opened.
> 
> 
> 
> Solution?  Suggestions?  Thank you.

non-html mail might be nice... :)

is "Temporary" selected at the bottom-right? this doesn't save settings.
otherwise does ~/.config/terminology dir exist? or ~/.config? can it be written
to?

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Re: [e-users] problem with input focus and window layering in E 0.21.11

2018-05-11 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 11 May 2018 08:43:06 +0900 Florian Schaefer <list...@netego.de> said:

> On 10.05.18 12:04, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Thu, 10 May 2018 09:11:08 +0900 Florian Schaefer <list...@netego.de>
> > said:
> > 
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> sorry for jumping into the discussion so suddenly. :-)
> >>
> >> On 10.05.18 01:12, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> >> [...]
> >>>> Ok, so basically you are confirming that 
> >>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/GFht7beUYWbobxpP6
> >>>> is a bug in 0.21.11 and that 
> >>>
> >>> oh wit. now i see it.. as your mouse goes over "Terminal" it focused "apps
> >>> - ..." ... the pointer should/would focus the window it is over, even if
> >>> that window is partly obscured by something on top.
> >>>
> >>>> 1) I'm the first one to see it, maybe because no one is using that
> >>>> release with focus follow mouse?
> >>>>
> >>>> 2) it's not going to get fixed because 0.21.x is a dead branch
> >>>
> >>> correct. the answer is "use 0.22". we don't have the manpower to support
> >>> multiple stable branches going back in time. we maintain one (the last
> >>> release stable branch). :(
> >> [...]
> >>
> >> I'd just like to confirm that I observe a similar behavior here since
> >> some weeks perhaps. I'm currently using efl and e 0.22 recompiled from
> >> GIT on April 22nd.
> >>
> >> Basically I see the same behavior. Interestingly only Firefox (version
> >> 56 in my case) seems to steal the focus from the top windows. And also
> >> only with some applications (e.g. FoxitReader) on top and not strictly
> >> always reproducible. Still, this is really unnerving as I tend to close
> >> my windows using keyboard shortcuts mostly and I always end up closing
> >> the Firefox beneath instead of the intended application...
> > 
> > does it still do it on git master?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> I just recompiled (just to be sure) EFL and enlightenment from GIT
> (master). Behaviour is unchanged: Firefox steals focus from FoxitReader
> window. In that situation the FoxitReader is displayed on top of Firefox
> and the cursor is residing within the Foxit window. My focus settings
> are "sloppy" and "Ignore hint". Interestingly, Foxit regains focus for a
> split second when my mouse curser changed from the main window area to
> the title bar.

hmmm does focus get stolen on click to focus? can you examine to see precisely
what areas the mouse has to go over for this to happen and see if there is a
pattern that matches something else on screen (visible or maybe obscured).

i also am not sure if this also has to do with focus model or clients
interacting with focus by setting focus too... trying to at least narrow it
down to "clients involved or not" or is it simply something geometrical?



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Re: [e-users] E versionning and testing

2018-05-10 Thread The Rasterman
On Thu, 10 May 2018 15:37:54 +1000 Daniel Kasak  said:

> It's more likely that you've received a kernel upgrade that's broken
> resuming from suspension. I've have the bitter experience of a long line of
> integrated Intel GPUs, and they have NEVER been stable resuming from
> suspension for me. Since the meltdown / spectre patches landed, that seems
> to have gotten worse, but it might just be that Intel broke things for
> older GPUs when adding support for newer ones in 4.15 / 4.16. It's a bit of
> a stretch to say that this instability resuming from suspension makes your
> laptop "not usable for work any more". Anyway, the moral of the story is to
> buy quality parts with stable drivers. I guarantee you that I'll never buy
> a laptop with an integrated intel GPU ( unfortunately my workplaces keep
> giving them to me ). If you want to rage at someone for your instability,
> go to intel-...@lists.freedesktop.org and tell them about it ...

just as information, suspend and resume are "invisible" to userspace. i need to
explain this. there is nothing special a wm or compositor or nay x app has to
or should do during suspend or resume at all. it's "handled for you by the
kernel" basically.

yes - e is involved VISUALLY by offering keybindings or acpi bindings
(listening to key and acpi events) and presenting a gui or initiate a suspend,
where e would mostly ask systemd "please suspend now". it happens to first fade
the screen (and backlight) to black.off before asking this of systemd.

and in reverse it detects it has resumed from suspend (totally in userspace
with no special kernel access) and does the reverse (fades back in).

if rendering HANGS and e is stuck e.g. in a gl call this absolutely is not
something e can do much or anything about. e itself doesnt even do gl calls -
it's abstracted through evas so all e does it move, show, hide and otherwise
change the properties of objects. e has done this fading in and out now for
like over 5+ years. this is nothing new. it's actually done by the theme when
it's signalled. more recently we also fade/modify the x cursor too, but in
principal it's all valid userspace activity just before and after a
suspend/resume cycle.

now as i said. i have sometimes seen e stop rendering. my checks seem to show
it just stops calling evas_render () well e doesnt call this. ecore_evas does).
i suspect something pauses rendering voluntarily then doesn't unpause (this can
be done) but i have yet to catch this often enough to put in debugging to find
out why.

i wouldn't cal this hung because e's loop is still working and processing events
etc. so ctl+alt+end gets it back to running. i call it "stop rendering" as
opposed to hung because e can still process events etc.

the reason i detail this is, this is where problems get identified. either they
are issues to farm off to mesa or kernel or they are issues in efl or e, and
then figuring out where the issue happens and how etc. is important, but that
requires people to help. the more people provide data, the more likely it is to
be finally found.

things like "it only happens after long suspends". figuring out how long is
"long" is important. which driver, mesa. kernel versions are effected. which
laptops? what usage patterns? when my lpatop suspends it's normally for short
periods (maybe an hour or 2 or 3 at most, often a few seconds or minutes). if i
am not going to use it for a while i shut it down (for me i press power button
twice and presto). it boots in only about 8 seconds so i'm happy with that. but
i can try and reproduce the behaviour that people say produces the issue.

> Dan
> 
> On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Marc MERLIN  wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 03:04:03PM +1000, Daniel Kasak wrote:
> > > This is probably a driver issue, and not E.
> >
> > That what Raster said when I first reported this, I believe him, but at the
> > end of the day, it doesn't matter.
> > 1) E changed to do new more fancy stuff I didn't need.
> > 2) It triggers bugs in Xorg or the intel driver, or god knows what.
> > 3) My laptop becomes not usable for work anymore
> > ...
> > 5) !profit
> >
> > I realize that Raster wants to keep it fun for himself and add more
> > features
> > and eye candy, I don't blame him.
> > But as an end user, I really don't need this, I just need an E that will
> > work without any extra features compared to the many many so many features
> > it already has, many I probably don't even know.
> > Stablizing a branch is not fun work, but it's essential to software,
> > especially something as "mustn't fail" and important as a WM.
> >
> > Marc
> > --
> > "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" -
> > A.S.R.
> > Microsoft is to operating systems 
> >    what McDonalds is to gourmet
> > cooking
> > Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/
> >
> > 

Re: [e-users] E versionning and testing

2018-05-10 Thread The Rasterman
On Thu, 10 May 2018 13:13:41 +1000 Dave  said:

>  In the year 2018, of the month of May, on the 9th day, Marc MERLIN wrote:
> > Last week, I show up for a work meeting, I open my laptop, everything is
> > hosed/hung. I try to restart E, it won't restart. I forget why but that
> > time I actually had to restart X. Time lost, people looking at me.
> 
>  Just confirming that I have a similar problem with E22.  Enlightenment is
> freezing up when I resume from suspend.  Problem is, it doesn't trigger right
> away.  I can suspend and then resume immediately, and things are OK.  I
> usually have to leave the laptop suspended for a few hours before the issue
> will trigger.
> 
>  Haven't reported it because I've been too lazy to get more info from a
> backtrace, and because I wasn't sure if it was issues with the driver and/or
> Xorg.  Guess I'll have to get around to it.  Would be nice to have suspend
> properly working again.

is e actually frozen, or is it just not rendering (ctrl+alt+end restarts e so
if that works then e is working, just not drawing). if it doesn't then e is
hung and a bt is needed to know where.

>  dave
> 
> 
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Re: [e-users] E versionning and testing

2018-05-10 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 9 May 2018 22:11:20 -0700 Marc MERLIN  said:

> On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 03:04:03PM +1000, Daniel Kasak wrote:
> > This is probably a driver issue, and not E.
> 
> That what Raster said when I first reported this, I believe him, but at the
> end of the day, it doesn't matter.

well i mentioned that it probably is because e being actually hung is an issue
i've seen ending up in a bt in the driver. it's recoverable without losing
anything

but it does matter where the problem is because you report the problem then to
the mesa devs if its getting hung in the driver e.g. in a gl api call.

e hasnt "started doing new fancy things". perhaps we've shuffled some gl draw
calls around or a few objects so there is a different sequence of calls that
causes it but it is far from our fault if this is the case.

when you say hung i am taking it as literally just that - hung and not able to
process events or render or do anything.

> 1) E changed to do new more fancy stuff I didn't need.
> 2) It triggers bugs in Xorg or the intel driver, or god knows what.
> 3) My laptop becomes not usable for work anymore
> ...
> 5) !profit
> 
> I realize that Raster wants to keep it fun for himself and add more features
> and eye candy, I don't blame him.

no. this has nothing to do with that. but "never add more things to e because i
demand it never change" is never going to happen. i suggest you tell the kernel
developers this and see what reaction you get.

what i see here is you don't care where the problem is, you're not interested
in helping find out and have decided to just blame us and that's the end of
that. you are free to do that, but that's not going to get any traction in
terms of help from this end.

i've worked with developers of other projects before and commonly they ask you
to try "git master or svn head" and so i do... i even bother to bisect the
problem (i've done this a few times for mesa for example), and i work with the
developers to identify the problem so it gets fixed.

you on the other hand are not interested in this (you've made it clear you
have no time), and you are insisting on some amorphous "make it work for me"
without any desire to help that happen. :( that's a bit sad. in the end i'm
going to spend my time on things i can get "return on investment" for. i also
only have a certain amount of time ... and i'm going to spend it where i get
the best return. i get no return from someone unwilling to help figure out what
is up (has it been addressed yet or not in master, where does the issue
actually lie (e, efl, mesa, somewhere else?) etc. ... mas i said. if i see
it... i bother to figure it out if its' bad and easy to do (a backtrace for
example). :(

> But as an end user, I really don't need this, I just need an E that will
> work without any extra features compared to the many many so many features
> it already has, many I probably don't even know.
> Stablizing a branch is not fun work, but it's essential to software,
> especially something as "mustn't fail" and important as a WM.

already answered that. we have them. we backport fixes. latest release is the
stable branch only.

> Marc
> -- 
> "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
> Microsoft is to operating systems 
>    what McDonalds is to gourmet
> cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/  
> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> 


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Re: [e-users] problem with input focus and window layering in E 0.21.11

2018-05-09 Thread The Rasterman
On Thu, 10 May 2018 09:11:08 +0900 Florian Schaefer  said:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> sorry for jumping into the discussion so suddenly. :-)
> 
> On 10.05.18 01:12, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> [...]
> >> Ok, so basically you are confirming that 
> >> https://photos.app.goo.gl/GFht7beUYWbobxpP6
> >> is a bug in 0.21.11 and that 
> > 
> > oh wit. now i see it.. as your mouse goes over "Terminal" it focused "apps
> > - ..." ... the pointer should/would focus the window it is over, even if
> > that window is partly obscured by something on top.
> > 
> >> 1) I'm the first one to see it, maybe because no one is using that
> >> release with focus follow mouse?
> >>
> >> 2) it's not going to get fixed because 0.21.x is a dead branch
> > 
> > correct. the answer is "use 0.22". we don't have the manpower to support
> > multiple stable branches going back in time. we maintain one (the last
> > release stable branch). :(
> [...]
> 
> I'd just like to confirm that I observe a similar behavior here since
> some weeks perhaps. I'm currently using efl and e 0.22 recompiled from
> GIT on April 22nd.
> 
> Basically I see the same behavior. Interestingly only Firefox (version
> 56 in my case) seems to steal the focus from the top windows. And also
> only with some applications (e.g. FoxitReader) on top and not strictly
> always reproducible. Still, this is really unnerving as I tend to close
> my windows using keyboard shortcuts mostly and I always end up closing
> the Firefox beneath instead of the intended application...

does it still do it on git master?

-- 
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Re: [e-users] problem with input focus and window layering in E 0.21.11

2018-05-09 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 9 May 2018 17:05:03 -0700 Marc MERLIN  said:

> On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 09:32:03AM +0930, Simon Lees wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On 09/05/18 23:50, Marc MERLIN wrote:
> > > On Wed, May 09, 2018 at 11:16:52AM +0200, Jérémy Zurcher wrote:
> > >> Hello Marc,
> > >>
> > >> I don't like that default behaviour either.
> > >> but it's very easy to disable :
> > >>   Settings -> Windows -> window focus -> Click window to focus
> > > 
> > > Yeah, thanks for that workaround, I could do this if I had to.
> > > 
> > > However, sorry if I'm being dense here:
> > > I've had focus follow mouse for literally 20 years.
> > > I've never had my mouse pointer focus a window underneath the window I'm
> > > pointing on.
> > > I sure don't want that, and E has never ever done this, until now with
> > > 0.22.11.
> > 
> > I used to do that all the time, with semi transparent terminal windows
> > that over lapped or other cases where I was re writing in text I went
> > back to click to focus years ago though.
> 
> If you use focus follow mouse, how does it or you get to decide if input
> goes to the window on top or below?
> With click to focus, sure, but without, how can E know that you want to type
> under the current window?
> 

when mouse enters or exits the window (events from the xserver). that is how e
decides to focus it or not.

> In what I'm seeing, some windows have higher priority and steal input even
> if they're below the window on top that I'm trying to write in.

either mouse is entering and exiting... or an app is explicitly setting or
stealing the focus. apps can do this. the enter/exit may be happening due to
"fake invisible" windows/rectangles being used to cover areas not covered by
windows to direct input to the one big canvas that is the screen for e's
compositor. there may have been a bug in it that messed up these rects OR
perhaps there were stray "0 0 0 0" rectangles (transparent rects but visible to
input, so color rgba is 0 0 0 0). if it was this then the bug has since been
fixed in 0.22 for sure.

> Marc
> -- 
> "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
> Microsoft is to operating systems 
>    what McDonalds is to gourmet
> cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/  
> 
> --
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Re: [e-users] problem with input focus and window layering in E 0.21.11

2018-05-08 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 8 May 2018 17:39:19 -0700 Marc MERLIN  said:

> My most taxing problem is this now:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/Sz5i3LVFYhh79d9T8
> All windows are set to stacking normal but some windows have a stacking
> so that they steal the mouse focus even tough they're underneath.
> I don't understand how that's possible.
> 
> Should my mouse cursor ever be able to give focus to a window that's
> underneath the current one?
> 
> Background:
> E 0.21.5 would go into a CPU loop that didn't hang it, but sure sucked a
> lot of power.
> 
> So, I foolishly went to 0.22.x, which fixed that problem, but brought a
> load of completely new ones, which Raster says are likely my X server's
> fault (intel, latest version from debian. I was running an older
> version, but upgrading to the latest experimental fixed nothing).
> Basically I had a myriad of problems every time I resumed from sleep,
> not just the mouse cursor going away, but things being hung or not
> working and basically I had to restart E every time I resumed from
> sleep, although that was only one of the problems. I should have written
> the other ones down, but honestly they always happened when I was in the
> middle of other important things and I just needed my WM to work :-/
> 
> Raster, sorry, I know you asked me for some debug, but
> 1) never had time to even get anything building until today
> 2) 0.22 has too many different bugs for me to want to keep trying to use
> it. 

well then we are at an impasse. nothing is going to change or be fixed because
there is no way to know what to change or why, so you will be on 0.21 forever
and we'll move on. sorry. we've been through this before. :(

> So, I went back to 0.21.5 which was painful since my profile was
> incompatible and I had to painstakenly recreate all my window placements
> and save everything.
> Sure enough, CPU hangs again.
> Looked around, no later 0.21.x version in debian, so I pulled the
> 0.21.11 source and after 1.5h of hammering stuff, got it to build in
> debian (missing a lot of build packages, some nicely depended on
> systemd which I don't want on that system).
> I'm now running 0.21.11 built from source using debian build files, and
> sure enough, yet another set of problems.
> 
> First, when I open too many E dialog boxes, everything hangs hard, so
> that I have to go to a text console and killall -9 enlightenment, and
> then things recover. Sigh, not great...
> 
> Can you help me get E 0.21 working well enough that I can go back to
> work and not have to worry about so many WM issues?

0.22 has this fixed... so either move to 0.22 and try what i suggested or go
through every commit in git between 0.21 and 0.22 and try it (unlikely it can
be tried on its own so you'll be bisecting), then read the commit and try modify
the source to suit. that is going to be the slowest possible path, but the one
you want to take. trying to find out what is up with 0.22 is going to be far
easier, and it has the possibility of there being a future to it (see
above) which what you are doing does not. :) even better just use git master
then we're on the same page and you get the latest fixes and improvements and
get to tell us if anything is wrong.

we don't try to put stuff in e or efl that is broken for us - in our testing,
but not all distros and hardware are the same. they contain different versions
and combinations of versions of things, different driver paths, speed and soon
and thus may exhibit bugs that are not seen (where the bug is varies - i have
often enough found bugs in drivers that were considered commercial quality
shipping drivers just because i used a feature in a specific way that was
meant to work by specs but wasn't tested that way). that is where users come in
to help out. what is there is obviously working for someone so what differs to
make it work there and not for you? 

> Thanks,
> Marc
> -- 
> "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
> Microsoft is to operating systems 
>    what McDonalds is to gourmet
> cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/   | PGP
> 7F55D5F27AAF9D08
> 


-- 
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Re: [e-users] problem with input focus and window layering in E 0.21.11

2018-05-08 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 8 May 2018 17:59:18 -0700 Marc MERLIN  said:

> On Tue, May 08, 2018 at 05:39:19PM -0700, Marc MERLIN wrote:
> > My most taxing problem is this now:
> > https://photos.app.goo.gl/Sz5i3LVFYhh79d9T8
> > All windows are set to stacking normal but some windows have a stacking
> > so that they steal the mouse focus even tough they're underneath.
> > I don't understand how that's possible.
> > 
> > Should my mouse cursor ever be able to give focus to a window that's
> > underneath the current one?
> 
> Ah yeah, I forgot this relevant info:
> ii  libdrm-intel1:amd64 2.4.91-2   
> ii  xorg1:7.7+19   
> ii  xserver-xorg-video-intel2:2.99.917+git20171229-1
> 
> Sadly even 
> saruman:~# apt-get install -t experimental xserver-xorg-video-intel
> does not give me a newer xserver-xorg-video-intel. Not sure if there are bad 
> bugs in there that are getting in the way.
> That said, my understanding was that input focus control was the WM's
> job, so I'm assuming it's E's responsibility.

window focus controls are the wm's job - well to an extent. any x client can
just set the focus too so it's a free-for-all that any client can mess with.

yes. pointer focus will focus windows under others. as per video. that is
intended. i use it all the time. i like it. mostly windows under others are
only minimally obscured. if i dont want it behind it alt+click to raise to the
front.

if you want it to RAISE there is another feature called autoraise. enable that.
then it'll focus and raise... use them together if that is what you prefer.
autoraise also can work with click to focus. :) "Raise windows on mouse over""
is the checkbox under window focus settings.

> Correct?
> 
> Marc
> -- 
> "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
> Microsoft is to operating systems 
>    what McDonalds is to gourmet
> cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/   | PGP
> 7F55D5F27AAF9D08
> 


-- 
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Re: [e-users] 2 wayland sessions from tty

2018-04-27 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 21:02:01 +0200 maderios  said:

> Hi
> I want to launch 2 wayland sessions from tty in the same time:
> tty1 enlightenment_start --display :0
> tty2 enlightenment_start --display :1

that's for X, not wayland.
for wayland you have to get yourself 2 login sessions and just run
enlightenment_start from each.

> Am I right?
> Is it necessary to specify display?
> Thanks
> -- 
> Maderios
> 
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Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update

2018-04-22 Thread The Rasterman
On Sun, 22 Apr 2018 11:21:44 +0100 Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said:

> On 22/04/18 06:12, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> [...]
> > our job is to provide the source code that gets compiled, so out
> > instructions will be for that. :) the general instructions on our
> > download page where the downloads are source at any rate. :)
> Yep. I used to rely on it in the days when I recompiled from scratch for 
> each platform I used.
> 
> But since Niko's .debs worked so well, I've been using them — until the 
> trouble with the most recent ones. But since you gave me the fix to 
> backtrack, I no longer need to compile anything, so I was just trying to 
> see if meson was as broken as it was when I last looked at it.
> 
> > that doesn't matter. meson required ninja-build. you installed some
> > unrelated ninja package that is going to consume some space but
> > otherwise have no effect.
> But nothing was installed the first time: the original command failed 
> for the reason given. Apt was doing its job correctly, just 
> badly-worded. The second time it worked perfectly.
> 
> > the problem is meson + its dependencies in the package repos you use.
> > that may mean mint is totally broken. it may mean repos you have
> > added are broken as a result you end up with this. either way you
> > have a broken package repo situation when it comes to meson.
> No, absolutely not. I cannot understand why you still think this.
> Everything is working fine.

then explain the meson error you pasted. did meson install? can you install it?

> > as above. ... the meson package in the distribution you use and/or its
> > dependencies when taken as a whole in your distribution or your use of it
> > including added or changed repository url's is broken. 
> 
> No, it's fine. I simply typed an additional unnecessary package and apt 
> correctly refused to install it.
> 
> > yes they are. you posted the error yourself:
> > 
> > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> >  meson : Depends: ninja-build (>= 1.6) but it is not going to be
> > installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
> 
> That was a result of my typing an additional unnecessary package name 
> the first time. The error message is bogus. Nothing was installed, 
> nothing was held. Apt merely thought there was because the command failed.

it still doesn't change the fact that you have a meson package that is
uninstallable for some reason related to the repo dataset you have. at least
some of your dataset is broken. you can continue to pretend it's not even
though you pasted the error yourself. i'm repeating myself.

> > that is an error for you. perhaps you have held back certain packages from
> > updating that cause ninja-build not to update to a newer version etc. (as i
> > said before that perhaps it's there but unable to install a new enough
> > version).
> 
> No, there are no hold-backs, previous versions, or anything of the sort.

then explain the error you yourself pasted. install meson. does it install?
explain why dpkg itself says there are held packages? is it wrong? the dpkg
maintainers would love to hear that bug report then... :)

> > yes there is. see above. you yourself provided it. "unmet dependencies". 
> 
> No, that was just the result of my typing an additional unnecessary 
> package name.

and that package is broken. it is not needed to run enlightenment, but if you
ever need to compile it it will be needed. it doesn't change the fact that THAT
package and/or its dependencies is broken within your repository dataset. that
may imply more is broken.

> > ninja-build WAS REQUESTED. 
> 
> Yes, wrongly. I should not have typed that name.
> 
> > it was REQUESTED by the meson package.
> 
> No, *I* requested it...wrongly.

at no point am i saying that it is needed now for enlightenment to run. you
keep thinking that because you made an error in trying to install meson when it
was not needed that that changes the fact that meson is broken as i've
indicated.

i'm trying to help you by pointing out you have problems with your system there
and this may lead to more issues in future. you seem to not want that help,
even though your yourself saw the exact error and pasted it and now deny that
any issues exist, so i may as well give up.

> > I don't know what
> > you've done, but a little bit of investigating like installing ninja-build 
> 
> But there is no package ninja-build in this distro. Just a package 
> ninja. I am assuming this package contained the functionality of 
> ninja-build, whatever that may be, because the ninja package satisfied 
> the requirements of meson.

then THAT is the problem. meson depe

Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update

2018-04-21 Thread The Rasterman
On Sat, 21 Apr 2018 22:09:35 +0100 Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said:

> On 21/04/18 06:37, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > you didn't even have to install meson if it's already compiled 
> > binaries. meson is needed to compile terminology and enlightenment
> 
> Right. I was installing meson because the web site said so.
> 
> But it turned out (thanks to your help) that I don't need to compile 
> terminology and enlightenment because I was able to back-track over the 
> dud-package problem.

well... that is the purpose of deb, rpm, etc. etc. - to provide already
compiled ready-to-go software.

our job is to provide the source code that gets compiled, so out instructions
will be for that. :) the general instructions on our download page where the
downloads are source at any rate. :)

you need to keep this in mind and know the difference. it'll save you a lot of
pain and agony. :)

> > on the cmdline or not should make no difference. a package (meson) 
> > needs to be installed. ninja-build is a dependency of meson
> 
> Right. But the web site said just "ninja" so I typed ninja. Not ninja-build.

that doesn't matter. meson required ninja-build. you installed some unrelated
ninja package that is going to consume some space but otherwise have no effect.
the problem is meson + its dependencies in the package repos you use. that may
mean mint is totally broken. it may mean repos you have added are broken as a
result you end up with this. either way you have a broken package repo
situation when it comes to meson.

> > and it cannot install that/ something is seriously wrong with the
> > package repository/ies you are using
> No. I obviously haven't explained this clearly enough:
> 
> 1. I read web site at https://www.enlightenment.org/docs/distros/start
> 
> 2. It says I need basic tools: git. autoconf (2.59 or better), automake
> (1.10 or better), autopoint, libtool, gettext, meson and ninja
> 
> 3. I type (as in email of 18/04/18 20:58)
> apt install git autoconf automake autopoint libtool gettext meson ninja
> 
> 4. apt says The following packages have unmet dependencies:  meson : 
> Depends: ninja-build (>= 1.6) but it is not going to be installed
> 
> 5. Massimo said "there is no package named ninja, you should
> remove it from the apt command line."
> 
> 6. I type
> apt install git autoconf automake autopoint libtool gettext meson
> 
> 7. Works perfectly. It installs ninja-build as a dependency of meson.

as above. ... the meson package in the distribution you use and/or its
dependencies when taken as a whole in your distribution or your use of it
including added or changed repository url's is broken. that package and/or its
dependencies are broken. i am letting you know you are using a distro that has
a problem and this essentially disallows you from building enlightenment unless
you choose to start compiling meson and its dependencies yourself too.

> Nothing is broken in any repo; just the instructions refer to ninja 
> instead of ninja-build (and it's not needed explicitly anyway because it 
> gets included as a dependency of meson).

yes they are. you posted the error yourself:

   The following packages have unmet dependencies:
meson : Depends: ninja-build (>= 1.6) but it is not going to be installed
   E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.

that is an error for you. perhaps you have held back certain packages from
updating that cause ninja-build not to update to a newer version etc. (as i
said before that perhaps it's there but unable to install a new enough version).

you have an issue there... *THIS* above. this meson + ninja-build issue is the
thing i have been talking about. 

> > in that it is broken with a package (meson) that is uninstallable 
> > because a dependency of it is unable to be installed (doesn't exist 
> > or is too old a version as it wanted >= 1.6). your problem lies in 
> > your repositories and those packages. 
> 
> No. I don't understand why you think the repo is broken. There is no 
> evidence for this.

yes there is. see above. you yourself provided it. "unmet dependencies". the
repose are broken or your use of them is (added repose that altered available
versions, but the simple thing that no ninja-build package of appropriate
version can be found... that is a problem).

> But apt needs much better error reporting, because it fails to identify 
> WHY the package could not be installed, and because it used the name of 
> a package which was not requested (ninja-build instead of ninja). But 
> perhaps it doesn't have that information.

ninja-build WAS REQUESTED. it was REQUESTED by the meson package. it is a
dependency of the meson package. dig in and find out. it clearly says there
that the dependency "n

Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update

2018-04-20 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 21:51:04 +0100 Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said:

> On 20/04/18 07:00, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> [...]
> > umm but:
> > 
> >   meson : Depends: ninja-build (>= 1.6) but it is not going to be installed
> > 
> > that says that there should be a ninja-build package. the meson package you
> > are installing depends on it... where is that meson package coming from?
> > from mint? or is it the extra repo (niko's) you added above?
> 
> No, that just has efl, enlightenment, and terminology. Maybe Mint's
> meson did call it ninja-build, it has long scrolled off the console.

well you asked to install meson on the cmdline (which is only needed for
compilation) and that meson pkg needs ninja-build. ninja is obviously some
different thing on debian based distros. ninja-build cannot be installed.

> The point was, I didn't have to mention it; installing meson included it
> automatically as a dependency, whereas mentioning it explicitly caused
> an error, which I though was weird.

you didn't even have to install meson if it's already compiled binaries. meson
is needed to compile terminology and enlightenment these days (in git master).
terminology has required meson now in releases too.

> > well niko's repo is that.. a non-distro repo custom filled with specific
> > pkgs that dont come from the distro. :)
> 
> Yes, that's why I mentioned it.
> 
> > well either way the output you had above with meson and ninja-build errors
> > says that some meson package somewhere apt is trying to install requires
> > ninja-build and its having trouble getting ninja-build installed.
> 
> No, exactly the opposite. Installing meson automatically included ninja
> (-build or not, I can't remember now) as a dependency. It only gave an
> error if I tried to include the package name on the command line.

on the cmdline or not should make no difference. a package (meson) needs to be
installed. ninja-build is a dependency of meson and it cannot install that/
something is serioously wrong with the package repository/ies you are using in
that it is broken with a package (meson) that is uninstallable because a
dependency of it is unable to be installed (doesn't exist or is too old a
version as it wanted >= 1.6). your problem lies in your repositories and those
packages. they seem to be broken somehow and you'd need to investigate exactly
why and report to the package maintainers.

> ///Peter
> 
> 
> 
> --
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Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update

2018-04-20 Thread The Rasterman
On Thu, 19 Apr 2018 03:07:41 + Stephen Houston  said:

> Also, the comment that was made about Ubuntu and Fedora not updating meson
> (or any other apps as was stated) is very misleading. Both Fedora and
> Ubuntu stay well up to date and keep their packages very up to date.  The
> meson version included in both distros stable repos work just fine to build
> e, efl, and e apps using meson. No need to force the rolling release point
> of view there. Yes debian is usually way behind, and yes way behind ubuntu
> and fedora too, so not surprised there.

if you install ubuntu 16.04 then 16.04 will not update meson. if you do
apt-get update/upgrades it won't. it'll get bugfixes and security fixes. you
need to actually go alter your package repo url's to upgrade. that is what i
mean. you can upgrade to 17.04, then 18.04 etc.. but it requires explicitly
changing repositories to upgrade, unlike a rolling distro where you don't change
your repos and doing an update+upgrade just upgrades everything that has been
updated in the repo since you last did this.

> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:52 PM Dave  wrote:
> 
> >  In the year 2018, of the month of April, on the 19th day, Carsten
> > Haitzler wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Is Meson that neglected in some places? I had sort of assumed it would
> > > > be under heavy support as it's become so popular.
> > >
> > > no - it's that meson has been changing a lot of late i'd say as it gets
> > more
> > > adoption and more projects find bugs and shortcomings in it and meson
> > adds
> > > features to match thus needing a very up to date version. if you use
> > debian
> > > (stable), ubuntu, fedora etc. you will not find them UPGRADING meson or
> > really
> > > any package. only providing bugfix/security fix packages (a new revision
> > of the
> > > same version of the older pkg with the security or bug fix). they
> > probably
> > > focus most on security fixes and only the big bug fixes may get a fix.
> > if the
> > > fix is to upgrade the pkg they probably wont do it.
> > >
> > > that's why a rolling release distro (arch, gentoo, suse tumbleweed,
> > debian
> > > SID/testing etc.) will stay up to date as it's always ipdating and
> > upgrading
> > > all packages based on when upsterams release them.
> >
> >  Just a note that Debian also has a "backports" repo, which contains some
> > updated binaries for the stable release.  Meson is one such package.  The
> > backported version is a little behind testing/unstable, but is still much
> > more recent than stable.
> >
> >  https://packages.debian.org/stretch-backports/meson
> >
> >  I use testing (buster) myself, and it compiles terminology 1.2 fine.
> >
> >  Cheers,
> >  dave.k
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> > enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
> >
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Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update

2018-04-20 Thread The Rasterman
On Thu, 19 Apr 2018 22:45:55 +0100 Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said:

> On 19/04/18 03:37, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> [...]
> > anyone can get write access. sign up an account there. it's a wiki.
> 
> I'm not a developer, just an end user, so I don't think I would be in
> any remote way qualified to add anything myself.

if you find packages  update or change names - a user can modify those things.
developers are not people who compile things. they are people who work on the
code itself. users may or may not compile things. in the process of compiling
you will maybe figure out dependencies change.

> > but please note that that page is GENERIC. it doesn't cover any special
> > distro.
> 
> My error: I assumed that most distros would use the same names.

absolutely not. there's 1000+ linux distros. there's the bsd's too ... and not
to mention windows and osx where there are also various ways of getting
dependencies. :)

> > we cant have one generic page magically just work on every distro.
> 
> No indeed, not as things stand. One page each for the distros I test
> might be achievable.
> 
> > if you looked top-right there is a list of distro specific install pages
> > with more specialist instructions per distro. again - a wiki. can be
> > updated by users of that distro as it changes over time.
> 
> Right. I missed that completely

that'll be the "per distro" pages. and that is really where users come in -
when the compile and test and when distros add, remove or rename packages you
can't expect developers to keep every distro around in some vm or chroot and
keep up with all of them in addition to working on the code. :)

> > did you try install ninja-build on its own and see what version it was?
> 
> No, I just omitted it from the list, and it got included as a dependency
> on meson, so it all installed. Haven't had time to do anything with it
> yet though.
> 
> > perhaps its too old? did you customize the pkg repo urls 
> 
> No, everything is stock. The only addition was Niko's repo for E and
> Terminology, now removed.
> 
> > perhaps mint is just broken if it can't install
> > its own pkgs dependencies if everything you have is stock... 
> 
> No, just the naming. Mint has no such animal as ninja-build, apparently,
> just plain ninja, and it gets installed along with meson.

umm but:

  meson : Depends: ninja-build (>= 1.6) but it is not going to be installed

that says that there should be a ninja-build package. the meson package you are
installing depends on it... where is that meson package coming from? from mint?
or is it the extra repo (niko's) you added above?

> > but that'd be a
> > pretty horrible break there, so my suspects are custom pkg repos of your own
> > breaking up dependencies somehow...
> 
> It would be pretty bad, but I don't do custom pkg repos, fortunately.

well niko's repo is that.. a non-distro repo custom filled with specific pkgs
that dont come from the distro. :)

> If what I need can't be provided from stock, I switch Linux distro to
> one that can (why I ditched Xubuntu for Mint). Like I said: I'm an end
> user — I don't have the freedom to experiment at the moment; the best I
> can do right now is to donate to the support of a distro. When I retire
> things will be different, I hope — time to experiment and contribute :-)

well either way the output you had above with meson and ninja-build errors says
that some meson package somewhere apt is trying to install requires
ninja-build and its having trouble getting ninja-build installed. too old a
version or doesn't exist. so either that meson package is broken in that
environment with the ninja-build pkgs available :)

> ///Peter
> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update

2018-04-18 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 18 Apr 2018 20:32:49 +0100 Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said:

> On 18/04/18 09:56, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 Apr 2018 09:11:33 +0100 Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said:
> >> I know meson is terribly fashionable these days, but I have tried
> >> to get it to work on at least five Linux distros and it's never
> >> worked properly -- always been missing some unfindable component.
> > 
> > ummm maybe its just the distros you tried that don't stay up to date
> > that easily?
> 
> Is Meson that neglected in some places? I had sort of assumed it would
> be under heavy support as it's become so popular.

no - it's that meson has been changing a lot of late i'd say as it gets more
adoption and more projects find bugs and shortcomings in it and meson adds
features to match thus needing a very up to date version. if you use debian
(stable), ubuntu, fedora etc. you will not find them UPGRADING meson or really
any package. only providing bugfix/security fix packages (a new revision of the
same version of the older pkg with the security or bug fix). they probably
focus most on security fixes and only the big bug fixes may get a fix. if the
fix is to upgrade the pkg they probably wont do it.

that's why a rolling release distro (arch, gentoo, suse tumbleweed, debian
SID/testing etc.) will stay up to date as it's always ipdating and upgrading
all packages based on when upsterams release them.

> So far I have tried Ubuntu, RedHat, CentOS, Bodhi, and raw Debian. All

all non-rolling and if they are older versions... not great. :(

> failed because some specific library was not available in the version
> required (different library for each distro), or because build
> instructions for the project I was working on expected an environment
> that didn't exist (presumably the original developer's environment).

i've build efl and e on a range of distros and also on fbsd too and
cross-compiled for windows as well over the years and i invariably can get it
to build by hunting down the dependency. i rarely have much trouble other than
just figuring out what the local distros package name is for that thing. i will
also try and use their absolute latest release each time.

> > at last arch has been smooth sailing on this, but it's a rolling
> > distro so it stays relatively up to date :)
> Sounds good. I've avoided Arch because last time I tried it, it broke
> Emacs, and was several versions behind on a few key (for me) packages.
> But if that's changed I should look at it again.
> 
> Thanks for the tips.
> 
> ///Peter
> 
> --
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Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update

2018-04-18 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 18 Apr 2018 20:58:30 +0100 Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said:

> On 18/04/18 20:32, Peter Flynn wrote:
> > On 18/04/18 09:56, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> >> On Wed, 18 Apr 2018 09:11:33 +0100 Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said:
> >>> I know meson is terribly fashionable these days, but I have tried
> >>> to get it to work on at least five Linux distros and it's never
> >>> worked properly -- always been missing some unfindable component.
> >>
> >> ummm maybe its just the distros you tried that don't stay up to date
> >> that easily?
> > 
> > Is Meson that neglected in some places? I had sort of assumed it would
> > be under heavy support as it's become so popular.
> > 
> > So far I have tried Ubuntu, RedHat, CentOS, Bodhi, and raw Debian. 
> 
> Just tried Mint:
> 
> > pentacle ~ # apt install git autoconf automake autopoint libtool gettext
> > meson ninja Reading package lists... Done
> > Building dependency tree
> > Reading state information... Done
> > autoconf is already the newest version (2.69-9).
> > automake is already the newest version (1:1.15-4ubuntu1).
> > autopoint is already the newest version (0.19.7-2ubuntu3).
> > gettext is already the newest version (0.19.7-2ubuntu3).
> > libtool is already the newest version (2.4.6-0.1).
> > git is already the newest version (1:2.7.4-0ubuntu1.3).
> > Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
> > requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
> > distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
> > or been moved out of Incoming.
> > The following information may help to resolve the situation:
> > 
> > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> >  meson : Depends: ninja-build (>= 1.6) but it is not going to be installed
> > E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
> > pentacle ~ # 
> 
> Unfortunately, apt doesn't say *why* it won't install ninja-build, so I
> have no way of knowing how the problem can be fixed.

did you try install ninja-build on its own and see what version it was?
perhaps its too old? did you customize the pkg repo urls to have extra ones
there that are not standard? perhaps mint is just broken if it can't install
its own pkgs dependencies if everything you have is stock... but that'd be a
pretty horrible break there, so my suspects are custom pkg repos of your own
breaking up dependencies somehow...

> ///Peter
> 
> 
> --
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Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update

2018-04-18 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 18 Apr 2018 21:47:01 +0100 Peter Flynn  said:

> On 18/04/18 21:19, Massimo Maiurana wrote:
> [...]
> > On debian buster (testing) there is no package named ninja, you should
> > remove it from the apt command line. Meson should carry out ninja-build
> > automatically as it's one of its dependencies.
> 
> Interesting, so it does.
> 
> Perhaps someone with write-access to
> https://www.enlightenment.org/docs/distros/start could note "meson
> (includes ninja)" instead of "meson and ninja".

anyone can get write access. sign up an account there. it's a wiki.

but please note that that page is GENERIC. it doesnt cover any special distro.
it's a list of dependencies, not PACKAGE NAMES. it's youer job to figure out
what the pkg name is on your distro. every distro is difference. on arch ninja
is "ninja" and on debian distros it seems to be "ninja-build". they are just
names for you to then go research on what package provides those. you will on
debian and rh distros have to install the libxxx-dev or libxxx-devel pkgs too
for headers. again - your job to figure out. we cant have one generic page
magically just work on every distro.

if you looked top-right there is a list of distro specific install pages with
more specialist instructions per distro. again - a wiki. can be updated by
users of that distro as it changes over time.

> However, attempting to install the dependencies mentioned lower down
> that page hits a snag:
> 
> # apt install gcc make check libpam freetype libpng libjpeg zlib libdbus
> luajit libx11 libxcursor libxrender libxrandr libxfixes libxdamage
> libxcomposite libxss libxp libxext libxinerama libxkbfile libxtst libxcb
> libxcb-shape libxcb-keysyms1 libpulse libsndfile libudev libblkid
> libmount libgstreamer vlc libtiff giflib curl openssl opengl libspectre
> poppler librsvg libraw libxine bullet
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> E: Unable to locate package libpam
> E: Unable to locate package freetype
> E: Unable to locate package libpng
> E: Unable to locate package libjpeg
> E: Unable to locate package zlib
> E: Unable to locate package libdbus
> E: Unable to locate package libx11
> E: Unable to locate package libxcursor
> E: Unable to locate package libxrender
> E: Unable to locate package libxrandr
> E: Unable to locate package libxfixes
> E: Unable to locate package libxdamage
> E: Unable to locate package libxcomposite
> E: Unable to locate package libxss
> E: Unable to locate package libxp
> E: Unable to locate package libxext
> E: Unable to locate package libxinerama
> E: Unable to locate package libxkbfile
> E: Unable to locate package libxtst
> E: Unable to locate package libxcb
> E: Unable to locate package libxcb-shape
> E: Unable to locate package libpulse
> E: Unable to locate package libsndfile
> E: Unable to locate package libudev
> E: Unable to locate package libblkid
> E: Unable to locate package libmount
> E: Unable to locate package libgstreamer
> E: Unable to locate package libtiff
> E: Unable to locate package giflib
> E: Unable to locate package opengl
> E: Unable to locate package libspectre
> E: Unable to locate package poppler
> E: Unable to locate package librsvg
> E: Unable to locate package libraw
> E: Unable to locate package libxine
> E: Unable to locate package bullet
> #
> 
> This is Mint...something wrong somewhere.
> 
> ///Peter
> 
> 
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Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update

2018-04-18 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 18 Apr 2018 17:45:19 -0400 mh <mhe...@member.fsf.org> said:

> 
> On 4/18/18 4:56 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 Apr 2018 09:11:33 +0100 Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said:
> >
> >> Yes, it looks like a build fail.
> >>
> >> Thanks, Carsten, for suggesting dpkg --purge. I had used apt --purge 
> >> but it
> >> seems that doesn't actually purge everything.
> >>
> >> Then reinstalling it worked (with a waning) so now it's back and on hold.
> >>
> >> I know meson is terrribly fashionable these days, but I have tried to get
> >> it to work on at least five Linux distros and it's never worked 
> >> properly --
> >> always been missing some unfindable component.
> > ummm maybe its just the distros you tried that don't stay up to date that
> > easily? at last arch has been smooth sailing on this, but it's a 
> > rolling distro
> > so it stays relatively up to date :)
> 
> 
> I'm running Debian sid and have no problems building with meson. just 

sid is rolling so that should make it good in terms of being up to date

> recompiled new two days ago. unstable and testing are using meson 
> version 0.45.1-2 right now, stable is at 0.37.1-1 . Arch is at version 
> 0.45.1-1 ;)
> 
> 
> >
> >> ///Peter
> >>
> >> On 18 April 2018 03:27:53 Dave <d...@flex.com.au> wrote:
> >>
> >> Weird. I've downloaded and unpacked that deb file. It just contains the
> >> /usr/share/doc/terminology data. No binaries. I'm guessing whoever 
> >> created
> >> it has an automated system for building packages, and it's failing on 
> >> binary
> >> compilation.
> >>
> >> Your old deb files are located in /var/cache/apt/archives . You can 
> >> install
> >> the previous terminology version from there via dpkg, or download the old
> >> version from the repository. Then you can put the package on "hold" by
> >> running "echo terminology hold | dpkg --set-selections". That'll 
> >> prevent it
> >> from being automatically upgraded.
> >>
> >> Otherwise, you could always compile the latest terminology yourself. It's
> >> not too hard. Though there is an annoying focus bug present in the latest
> >> version, which you may want to avoid until a point release is done.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> dave.k
> >>
> >>
> >> In the year 2018, of the month of April, on the 17th day, Peter Flynn 
> >> wrote:
> >> Sorry, this failed to send earlier.
> >>
> >> On 17/04/18 12:12, Peter Flynn wrote:
> >> [...]> 1 not fully installed or removed.
> >> After this operation, 0 B of additional disk space will be used.
> >> E: Internal Error, No file name for terminology:amd64
> >>
> >> Does anyone know where I can get it in a .deb form that won't vanish
> >> at an update
> >>
> >> I did some digging into
> >> http://ppa.launchpad.net/niko2040/e19/ubuntu/pool/main/t/terminology/
> >> and found that the two most recent .debs are only 11Kb, which must
> >> surely be an error.
> >>
> >> terminology_1.2.0-0artful0_amd64.deb 2018-04-15 19:20 5.7M
> >> terminology_1.2.0-0bionic0_amd64.deb 2018-04-15 19:52 5.7M
> >> terminology_1.2.0-0trusty4_amd64.deb 2018-04-15 20:06 11K
> >> terminology_1.2.0-0xenial3_amd64.deb 2018-04-15 20:06 11K
> >>
> >> I've sent Niko an email via launchpad, but does anyone else have a 
> >> solution?
> >>
> >> P
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> >&g

Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update

2018-04-18 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 18 Apr 2018 09:11:33 +0100 Peter Flynn  said:

> Yes, it looks like a build fail.
> 
> Thanks, Carsten, for suggesting dpkg --purge. I had used apt --purge but it 
> seems that doesn't actually purge everything.
> 
> Then reinstalling it worked (with a waning) so now it's back and on hold.
> 
> I know meson is terrribly fashionable these days, but I have tried to get 
> it to work on at least five Linux distros and it's never worked properly -- 
> always been missing some unfindable component.

ummm maybe its just the distros you tried that don't stay up to date that
easily? at last arch has been smooth sailing on this, but it's a rolling distro
so it stays relatively up to date :)

> ///Peter
> 
> On 18 April 2018 03:27:53 Dave  wrote:
> 
> Weird.  I've downloaded and unpacked that deb file.  It just contains the
> /usr/share/doc/terminology data.  No binaries.  I'm guessing whoever created
> it has an automated system for building packages, and it's failing on binary
> compilation.
> 
> Your old deb files are located in /var/cache/apt/archives .  You can install
> the previous terminology version from there via dpkg, or download the old
> version from the repository.  Then you can put the package on "hold" by
> running "echo terminology hold | dpkg --set-selections".  That'll prevent it
> from being automatically upgraded.
> 
> Otherwise, you could always compile the latest terminology yourself.  It's
> not too hard.  Though there is an annoying focus bug present in the latest
> version, which you may want to avoid until a point release is done.
> 
> Cheers,
> dave.k
> 
> 
> In the year 2018, of the month of April, on the 17th day, Peter Flynn wrote:
> Sorry, this failed to send earlier.
> 
> On 17/04/18 12:12, Peter Flynn wrote:
> [...]> 1 not fully installed or removed.
> After this operation, 0 B of additional disk space will be used.
> E: Internal Error, No file name for terminology:amd64
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get it in a .deb form that won't vanish
> at an update
> 
> I did some digging into
> http://ppa.launchpad.net/niko2040/e19/ubuntu/pool/main/t/terminology/
> and found that the two most recent .debs are only 11Kb, which must
> surely be an error.
> 
> terminology_1.2.0-0artful0_amd64.deb  2018-04-15 19:205.7M
> terminology_1.2.0-0bionic0_amd64.deb  2018-04-15 19:525.7M
> terminology_1.2.0-0trusty4_amd64.deb  2018-04-15 20:0611K
> terminology_1.2.0-0xenial3_amd64.deb  2018-04-15 20:0611K
> 
> I've sent Niko an email via launchpad, but does anyone else have a solution?
> 
> P
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update

2018-04-18 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 18 Apr 2018 09:52:49 +0200 Boris Faure  said:

> On 18-04-18 12:08, Dave wrote:
> >  Weird.  I've downloaded and unpacked that deb file.  It just contains the
> > /usr/share/doc/terminology data.  No binaries.  I'm guessing whoever created
> > it has an automated system for building packages, and it's failing on binary
> > compilation.
> 
> With Terminology 1.2.0, the build system has changed. I've written about
> it in my release notes. That's the likely reason the 1.2.0 package is
> broken.

indeed the older ubuntus might not have a recent enough meson to work right...


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Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update

2018-04-18 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 17 Apr 2018 22:07:41 +0100 Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said:

> On 17/04/18 14:59, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Tue, 17 Apr 2018 12:12:24 +0100 Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said:
> > 
> [...]
> >> Does anyone know where I can get it in a .deb form that won't vanish at
> >> an update?
> > 
> > perhaps remove the pkgs fully (dpkg --purge it) before re-installing?
> 
> Good point, but as I added, the repo seems to have bogus .debs (only 11Kb).

that sounds wrong... indeed. i can't help there. you'll have to contract the
maintainers. :)

> On another machine running Mint 18 I have
> terminology_1.1.1-0xenial1_amd64.deb so I have copied that to a safe
> place where I can try again tomorrow.
> 
> ///Peter
> 
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Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update

2018-04-17 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 17 Apr 2018 12:12:24 +0100 Peter Flynn  said:

> I recently installed Mint 18 on a desktop system, and added e and
> terminology like this:
> 
> sudo add-apt-repository -y ppa:niko2040/e19
> sudo apt-get update
> sudo apt-get install enlightenment terminology
> 
> All working nicely. Then this morning I ran my weekly update:
> 
> peter@oimelc:~/$ sudo apt update
> [sudo] password for peter:
> Hit:1 http://ppa.launchpad.net/gezakovacs/ppa/ubuntu xenial InRelease
> Hit:2 http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu xenial InRelease
> Hit:3 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial InRelease
> Get:4 http://ppa.launchpad.net/niko2040/e19/ubuntu xenial InRelease
> ...all normal.
> 
> peter@oimelc:~/$ sudo apt upgrade
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> Calculating upgrade... Done
> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>   libdrm-common libllvm5.0 libqmi-glib5
> The following packages will be upgraded:
>   apparmor apport apt apt-transport-https apt-utils apt-xapian-index
> [snip lots and lots of packages]
>   systemd-sysv terminology timeshift transmission-common
> After this operation, 87.4 MB of additional disk space will be used.
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
> Get:1 http://ppa.launchpad.net/niko2040/e19/ubuntu xenial/main amd64
> terminology amd64 1.2.0-0xenial3 [11.0 kB]
> Get:2 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial-updates/main amd64
> bsdutils amd64 1:2.27.1-6ubuntu3.4 [51.5 kB]
> [...]
> 
> So off it went and updated everything just fine...EXCEPT at the end:
> 
> dpkg: error processing package terminology (--configure):
>  subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 2
> 
> Errors were encountered while processing:
>  terminology
> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
> 
> Terminology has disappeared from my menus and from /usr/bin so it has
> vanished.
> 
> I tried to get it back with:
> 
> $ sudo apt-get --reinstall install terminology
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 reinstalled, 0 to remove and 0 not
> upgraded.
> 1 not fully installed or removed.
> After this operation, 0 B of additional disk space will be used.
> E: Internal Error, No file name for terminology:amd64
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get it in a .deb form that won't vanish at
> an update?

perhaps remove the pkgs fully (dpkg --purge it) before re-installing?

-- 
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Re: [e-users] Enlightenment on wayland

2018-04-16 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 16 Apr 2018 14:52:50 -0500 neena reddy  said:

> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to build enlightenment on wayland using yocto. I am using EFL
> 1.20.7 version and enlightenment 0.22.3 . My image built fine but having
> issues in bringing up the enlightenment desktop. I tried to start
> enlightenment.service manually but failed with the following error:
> 
>  Enlightenment Error 
> Enlightenment cannot create a dbus session connection.
> At best this will break many things, at worst it will hard lock your
> machine.
> If you're sure you know what you're doing, export E_NO_DBUS_SESSION=1
>  E: Begin Shutdown Procedure!
> 
> Error connecting to bus of type 1. error name:
> org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NotSupported error message: Using X11 for
> dbus-daemon autolaunch was disabled at compile time, set your
> DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS instead
>  safety check failed: conn == NULL
> Cannot get ELDBUS_CONNECTION_TYPE_SESSION
> enlightenment.service: Main process exited, code=exited, status=255/n/a
> systemd[1]: Failed to start Enlightenment service.
> 
> Did anyone have success in bringing up enlightenment on wayland?
> Any help on this would be appreciated.

no dbus session bus... enlightenment_start will use dbus-launch to run
enlightenment if it can't detect DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS etc. to ensure you
have a session bus. if there already is a session bus before
enlightenment_start then you're all good.

have you tried logging into a tty (text console) and just running
enlightenment_start by hand? you're using the service file which assumes a
session bus has already been started and env vars set etc. prior to
enlightenment running.

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Re: [e-users] [Enlightenment-release] Let's get Terminology 1.2.0 out!

2018-04-09 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 9 Apr 2018 23:26:41 +0200 Boris Faure  said:

> Hi fellow Terminology enthusiasts!
> 
>   I feel like it's time to release Terminology 1.2.0!
>   If there is an annoying bug you think I should fix before doing the
> release, now is the time to let me know!
>   Also, please commit or send me any pending translations you may have.
> 
> My actual plan is to make the release announcement over the weekend.
> 
> If anything goes wrong, I'll delay the release accordingly.
> 
> https://download.enlightenment.org/pre-releases/terminology-1.2.0.tar.xz
> 
> Please test them and report any issue you may encounter!
> 
> Happy testing!
> 
> Best Regards

sounds good to me. i don't know of any real outstanding issues in terminology.
it could always do with more features. i added a small one not too long ago
(tysend) :) there's a TODO file with a good list of them... :)

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Re: [e-users] Failed to initialize EvasGL

2018-04-07 Thread The Rasterman
On Sat, 07 Apr 2018 23:34:26 + Wido  said:

> Hi Ross, I don't think sid has the debug symbols from E22.3, which is the
> verion I have.
> 
> Raster, the problem was indeed in the driver version. When I rolled back to
> 386.111 and enabled opengl evas engine, the error logs disapeared ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

well for now that will work. i can't see issues on newer drivers though... on a
different os? perhaps something else? you're using egl/gles enabled in efl build
instead of opengl on nvidia? not sure.

> El sáb., 7 de abr. de 2018 a la(s) 15:15, Ross Vandegrift 
> escribió:
> 
> > On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 04:27:58PM +, Wido wrote:
> > > Unfortunately, sparky doesn't provides debug symbols, and I'm over
> > > compiling.
> >
> > Since you're running buster, you can install the packages from sid.  Debug
> > symbols are also packaged, see instructions at:
> > https://wiki.debian.org/HowToGetABacktrace#Installing_the_debugging_symbols
> >
> > Ross
> >
> >
> > --
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Re: [e-users] Failed to initialize EvasGL

2018-04-07 Thread The Rasterman
On Sat, 07 Apr 2018 04:33:52 + Wido  said:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm currently using E 22.3 with Debian test (buster). I'm geting E from the
> Sparky repos. Also, I have an Nvidia 1050 with propietary blobs (from
> debian non-free)
> 
> Recently, E started misbehaving, high cpu and suddenly my home partition
> was full.
> 
> I noticed that E filled the .xsession-errors file with some evas GL errors:
> 
> ERR<1136>:EvasGL modules/evas/engines/gl_common/evas_gl_core.c:973
> _surface_cap_init() There are no available surface formats. Error!
> ERR<1136>:EvasGL modules/evas/engines/gl_common/evas_gl_core.c:1901
> evgl_engine_init() Error initializing surface cap
> ERR<1136>:EvasGL modules/evas/engines/gl_common/evas_gl_core.c:1946
> evgl_engine_init() Failed to initialize EvasGL!
> ERR<1136>:EvasGL modules/evas/engines/gl_common/evas_gl_core.c:1605
> _evgl_tls_resource_get() Invalid EVGL Engine!
> 
> 
> and a backtrace that, since I don't have debug symbols, I can't really see.
> And it's printing that permanently.
> 
> I was able to get rid of those messages, by changing the engine to software
> (it was in opengl), but performance now sucks
> 
> Now, I think the culprit is in nvidia drives, since they were updated from
> version 386.111 to 390.42. And I did this after updating E from 22.1 to
> 22.3 (about a week later), so  I don't think updating E had anything to do,
> but updating nvidia's driver did.
> 
> could it be possible to fix this?

i'm on the nvidia 390.42 drivers too and i don't see any of the issues you seem
to have (this is arch though). gl working as normal. i am on git master though
(naturally). :/ i guess downgrading your nvidia driver will do the job for
you... but i don't see the same issues. :(

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Re: [e-users] multiple terminology windows

2018-04-01 Thread The Rasterman
On Sun, 1 Apr 2018 18:04:31 +0200 Massimo Maiurana <maiur...@gmail.com> said:

> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ha scritto il 26/03/2018 alle 07:24:
> > looks like you found a bug. you have enabled "multiple in stances one
> > process" an that should mean running terminology multiple times just
> > results in 1 terminology process but multiple windows from it as if you had
> > multiple terminology processes around.
> 
> It would be useful if running it multiple times would result in having
> multiple tabs inside a single window, instead of multiple windows. At
> least for me :)

you can just open up a new tab then im your existing terminal... the point of
this feature is to save memory with a single instance of the process only but
to otherwise appear to work as if you ran multiple process instances (ie opened
multiple windows). why don't you just open a new tab in the existing window you
want it in? any reason that doesn't work for you?

> -- 
> Massimo Maiurana
> Ragusa (RG)
> 
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Re: [e-users] multiple terminology windows

2018-04-01 Thread The Rasterman
On Sun, 1 Apr 2018 13:51:57 -0400 Conrad Knight  said:

> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:48 PM, Carsten Haitzler 
> wrote:
> > 1. you enabled "only launch single instance" under settings->desktop
> > environments in enlightenment
> 
> Ugh, that was it! All fixed now. No idea how it got set, i hate that
> behaviour in other desktop/window managers...

i KNEW this had to be it... otherwise what you were reporting would make no
sense at all... :) this does save memory for sure. if you use a lot of
terminals - quite a chunk of it (can save 10's or 100's of mb). as i said...
efl managed to break this by breaking flushing of ipc messages. i fixed it
since in efl git master and it works again. :)

> Thanks for your help,
> -Conrad.
> 
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Re: [e-users] e22.0 upgrade, sigh...

2018-03-31 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 22:16:48 -0700 Marc MERLIN  said:

> For now, Raster already knows about the dragging windows to edge flip
> not working anymore.

a fix for the above is now in git master.

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Re: [e-users] multiple terminology windows

2018-03-31 Thread The Rasterman
On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 20:46:39 -0400 Conrad Knight  said:

> On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 1:02 AM, Carsten Haitzler 
> wrote:
> > On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 22:49:15 -0400 Conrad Knight 
> > said:
> >> Ok, rebooted. Now the desktop file is being read as usual on every
> >> login. But even with the -s flag, the problem persists.
> >
> > is it actually running terminology -s ?
> 
> As far as i can tell, selecting terminology from the applications menu
> doesn't run anything, just changes focus to the existing one. There's
> no additional process.

the only 2 ways this can happen that i know:

1. you enabled "only launch single instance" under settings->desktop
environments in enlightenment
2. it'd be a broken "multiple instances, one process" as i mentioned before
(fixed in efl now).

the 2nd one i can reproduce and i fixed and looks like your issue. the fact
that things work differently from running terminology -s from the cmdline vs
from e hints to me that either they have a different environment or are not
executing the same thing.  if "multiple instances one process" is disabled you
should not need any special options at all. -s bypasses this and forces this
process to run and open a window. you seem to indicate that this works when you
run by hand. so my guess that makes sense is:

1. "multiple instances one process" is enabled in terminology behaviour config
2. when terminology is running from e it is NOT using -s ... and e is getting
this from somewhere. if you're launching from ibar or menu it's getting it from
a desktop file somewhere. if it's a keybinding - then double check the
keybinding settings if its running an app (by desktop name) or a specific
command, but either way it runs without -s ...

so this would explain what you are seeing behaviour-wise. running manually with
-s bypasses this if it's the 2nd instance. the first one will start anyway as
it can't connect to an existing terminology service for your user in your
runtime dir...

> > are you sure there isn't yet another desktop file with terminology commands
> > in it?
> 
> None that i can find, unless the ones in the terminology source
> directories count
> (~/src/terminology-1.1.1/data/desktop/terminology.desktop).
> 
> > it may be your environment is missing env vars or has different XDG vars
> > like XDG_RUNTIME_DIR? if the 2 processes have differing XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
> > dirs... then this might happen,. they think they are in differing
> > "runtimes". maybe one with and one without XDG_RUNTIME_DIR ?
> 
> XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is set to /run/user/1000. I don't know what enviroment
> variables the menu entry uses, but if it inherits them from
> enlightenment or enlightenment_start, those both have the same value.

it doesn't set anything, but inherits from the parent shell it runs from. so
check /proc/`pidof enlightenment`/environ to see what e's environment has.

> Is there perhaps a way of logging exactly what runs when i select the
> terminology menu entry?

strace -f -p `pidof enlightenment `(to follow forks) though you'll have to
tell enlightenment_start to stop ptracing with killall -USR1 enlightenment_start

> Thanks,
> -Conrad.
> 
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Re: [e-users] e22.0 upgrade, sigh...

2018-03-31 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 22:16:48 -0700 Marc MERLIN  said:

> So, I guess I knew why I was apprehensive about upgrading E again. I
> guess I'm not lucky because each time I've done it, stuff that I do care
> about, has broken.
> 
> For now, Raster already knows about the dragging windows to edge flip
> not working anymore.
> 
> But more important is how when I resume from S3 sleep, I get sometimes
> - very dark screen, brightness all the way down, I can't see anything,
>   or hardly anything until I fix the backlight level

when e suspends it'll "fade the screen" which also involves ramping brightness
down. on resume it does the reverse. it fades from black to normal and fades
brightness back up. this hasn't changed in years with e. i can't remember -
intel drivers? if so then the xserver controls the brightness - e just asks it
via xrandr to do it. this does work reliably for me on my laptops (multiple -
all intel though).

> - things come back ok sometimes, but then my mouse cursor totally
>   disappears over parts of the screen and re-appears within some
>   windows, while disappearing on the background again.

e also will emit signals to the pointer object to suspend/resume itself too
(the theme will zoom and fade the cursor when this happens). i added this more
recently because of another laptop where there are no actual brightness
controls even if its an intel gpu (it's an oled screen). and this led to
visible artefacts where the screen did fade to black but not the cursor which
stays there then vanished suddenly (and the reverse on resume) so i added a
cursor grab + fade it out to ensure it hides along with the rest of the screen.
this isn't necessary in wayland because we can fade the pointer out too (e
renders it as a canvas object), but is needed in x.

again - works reliably for me across multiple laptops i have. they all do have
intel gpu's and run arch linux.

i can't see your problem or reproduce it. though admittedly i'm on git master
(efl and e), and i don';t remember seeing this as an issue.

> The only way to fix this is to force restart E when I come back from S3
> sleep :-/
> 
> - my volume gadget was removed from the bar where all the gadgets are,
>   and after a while I found that a mini volume slider gets grafted onto
>   some of my google-chrome windows.
>   Ok, I can see how that might be useful to control per window volume,
>   but this doesn't work with all apps, like xmms2.
>   Also, how do I get mute for everything now?

your mixer should still be available... it has never been removed for me. make
sure the mixer module is loaded... go double-check the shelf contents to see if
the mixer gadget is there and added etc. ...

> So, the first 2 seem like new bugs, the last one seems undesirable
> behaviour at best, and I haven't found how to turn it off.
> 
> Confused,
> Marc
> -- 
> "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
> Microsoft is to operating systems 
>    what McDonalds is to gourmet
> cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/   | PGP
> 7F55D5F27AAF9D08
> 
> --
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Re: [e-users] Upgrading from E 0.21.5 to 0.22.0 breaks moving a window between virtual desktops

2018-03-29 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 22:15:02 -0700 Marc MERLIN  said:

> What I've been able to do with E since 1999:
> ALT + button 1 click on any window, move window to next virtual desktop
> 
> Since 0.22, it's broken, I cannot move a window to the next virtual
> desktop that way.
> 
> However, if I click on its title bar without alt, then I can still move
> it to the next virtual desktop. Better than nothing I guess.
> 
> Known issue/behaviour, or should I file a bug?

can't reproduce. just did it now.

alt down
left mouse down on window
f1/2/3/4... (some other desktop)
release alt and mouse

window is on new desktop...

> Marc
> -- 
> "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
> Microsoft is to operating systems 
>    what McDonalds is to gourmet
> cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/   | PGP
> 7F55D5F27AAF9D08
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [e-users] multiple terminology windows

2018-03-27 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 22:49:15 -0400 Conrad Knight  said:

> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 10:52 PM, Carsten Haitzler 
> wrote:
> > it should be. though it may have found another one somewhere more preferable
> > first?
> 
> I did find one other, very old one, oddly called
> "terminology:terminology.desktop". But i deleted that before logging
> out and back in again.
> 
> Ok, rebooted. Now the desktop file is being read as usual on every
> login. But even with the -s flag, the problem persists.

is it actually running terminology -s ?

are you sure there isn't yet another desktop file with terminology commands in
it?

> > disable the multiple instance thing in behavior and it should work.
> 
> Oh, i see! it's a terminology setting in the settings menu itself.
> Sorry, being dense :) I found the setting... and it was off. I tried

yes. that setting.

> turning it on, and running terminology from the command line again:
> new window appears, with a new process. So it seems that setting is
> being ignored when run from the command line (in an existing
> terminology window)? I turned the setting off again and the behaviour
> is unchanged: running from the command line gives me a new window,
> running from the applications menu just moves focus to the existing
> window.

it may be your environment is missing env vars or has different XDG vars like
XDG_RUNTIME_DIR? if the 2 processes have differing XDG_RUNTIME_DIR dirs... then
this might happen,. they think they are in differing "runtimes". maybe one with
and one without XDG_RUNTIME_DIR ?

> Anywhere else i can look for possible causes??/
> 
> Thanks,
> -Conrad.
> 
> -- 
> Shine like thunder
> Cry like rain
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [e-users] E 0.21.5 stuck at 100% CPU for days

2018-03-26 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 26 Mar 2018 22:20:27 -0700 Marc MERLIN  said:

> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 03:20:47PM +1030, Simon Lees wrote:
> > > Howdy,
> > > 
> > > This happens some time after I start, not right away.
> > > Restarting E while my desktop is running does not seem to help
> > > significantly.
> > > 
> > > What is my best way to find out what is keeping E in a busy loop like
> > > this?
> > > 
> > 
> > if you kill the e process with a sig segfault you will get a backtrace
> > that will show exactly whats causing it, also try updating to the latest
> > e / efl many issues have been fixed since.
> 
> thanks for the SEGV trick, I'll try that next time.
> 
> In the meantime, I upgraded to 0.22.1-2, we'll see if that helps.
> Hopefully I won't be worse off after the upgrade, than before ;)

If E is hung solid then it'll help. But if it's working just consuming CPU,
it's not going to. It's likely something causing events that then cause E to do
something about it. E.g. some window rendering. Or an event loop to X (Xserver
sends event Y, e responds by doing Z, which results in X sending event Y again).

The hint is in looking what other processes are also using CPU. That's the
first hint.

> Thanks,
> Marc
> -- 
> "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
> Microsoft is to operating systems 
>    what McDonalds is to gourmet
> cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/   | PGP
> 7F55D5F27AAF9D08
> 
> --
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Re: [e-users] multiple terminology windows

2018-03-26 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 26 Mar 2018 20:31:07 -0400 Conrad Knight  said:

> > -s should bypass this and force a new process. it sees multiple
> > instances one process has become broken somehow. disabling that should
> > get you back to normal.
> 
> Hmm, using "terminology" or "terminology -s" from the command line
> both start a new process. But then again, starting it from the command
> line has never been a problem.

it does.. but then that process exits after messaging the "singleton process"
if "multiple instances one process" is enabled (and without -s).

> I changed the line in my terminology.desktop file from
> "Exec=terminology" to "Exec=terminology -s", but for some reason, that
> file is not being re-read. I logged out and back in again, and every
> *.desktop file in /usr/local/share/applications/ was accessed (looking
> at "ls -lu") EXCEPT terminology.desktop. And it's not a permissions
> problem, every file there has 0644.
> 
> Why would E not be looking at this file, and only this file? Another
> symptom? E doesn't like terminology at all? :)

it should be. though it may have found another one somewhere more preferable
first?

> I'll wait for the next EFL release and try again... Unless it's going
> to take a while and use what's in git instead.

disable the multiple instance thing in behavior and it should work. as per
email.

> Thanks,
> -Conrad.
> 
> --
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Re: [e-users] multiple terminology windows

2018-03-26 Thread The Rasterman
On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 13:54:23 -0400 Conrad Knight  said:

> Hi,
> 
> I've been having this issue for a while now. If i attempt to run
> terminology from Enlightenment's applications menu, it does not open a
> new terminal. Instead it will simply put the focus on an existing
> terminology window. If i happen to attempt to open a new terminology
> window on another virtual desktop, it also moves me to the desktop
> where that window happens to be. And it doesn't even open a new tab in
> that window. Every once in a while, though, i get the expected
> behaviour of a new terminology window opening. Unfortunately, this
> happens so rarely that i can't figure out under what conditions this
> works.
> 
> The terminology help has the following (and i'm not sure if this appies) :
> 
>   -s, --singleForce single executable if multi-instance is
> enabled.
> 
> But obviously i'm not using command line switches when trying to open
> in from the menu. I've also checked any terminology.desktop files to
> make sure the relevant line (Exec=terminology) does not have the -s
> option. Is this even what this option would do? Also, "if
> multi-instance is enabled" implies there must be some way of enabling
> it, but there don't appear to be any compile-time options that mention
> anything resembling this.
> 
> Further, if i run terminology from the command line (either
> terminology's own, or another terminal such as uxterm) i DO get the
> expected behaviour. A new window opens every time.
> 
> The only other thing i can think of that might be affecting this are
> the existing terminology window's remember options. I have these
> settings:
> 
> Identifiers tab:
> window class: terminology
> 
> Properties tab:
> position, size, border style, virtual desktop are checked
> 
> Options tab:
> match only one window
> start this program on login
> 
> The idea is to open a terminology window on login with the desired properties.
> 
> I'm running terminology 1.1.1 (this may have started when i upgraded
> from a previous version, come to think of it) and Enlightenment
> 0.22.1.
> 
> Does anyone have an idea what might be happening? Any more information
> i can provide?

looks like you found a bug. you have enabled "multiple in stances one process"
an that should mean running terminology multiple times just results in 1
terminology process but multiple windows from it as if you had multiple
terminology processes around.

-s should bypass this and force a new process. it sees multiple
instances one process has become broken somehow. disabling that should
get you back to normal.

> Thanks,
> -Conrad.
> 
> -- 
> Shine like thunder
> Cry like rain
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
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Re: [e-users] multiple terminology windows

2018-03-26 Thread The Rasterman
On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 13:54:23 -0400 Conrad Knight  said:

found it... it's an efl bug in ecore_ipc. and it's been there i think a
long time. ever since efl.net came in. fixed in efl git master.

> Hi,
> 
> I've been having this issue for a while now. If i attempt to run
> terminology from Enlightenment's applications menu, it does not open a
> new terminal. Instead it will simply put the focus on an existing
> terminology window. If i happen to attempt to open a new terminology
> window on another virtual desktop, it also moves me to the desktop
> where that window happens to be. And it doesn't even open a new tab in
> that window. Every once in a while, though, i get the expected
> behaviour of a new terminology window opening. Unfortunately, this
> happens so rarely that i can't figure out under what conditions this
> works.
> 
> The terminology help has the following (and i'm not sure if this appies) :
> 
>   -s, --singleForce single executable if multi-instance is
> enabled.
> 
> But obviously i'm not using command line switches when trying to open
> in from the menu. I've also checked any terminology.desktop files to
> make sure the relevant line (Exec=terminology) does not have the -s
> option. Is this even what this option would do? Also, "if
> multi-instance is enabled" implies there must be some way of enabling
> it, but there don't appear to be any compile-time options that mention
> anything resembling this.
> 
> Further, if i run terminology from the command line (either
> terminology's own, or another terminal such as uxterm) i DO get the
> expected behaviour. A new window opens every time.
> 
> The only other thing i can think of that might be affecting this are
> the existing terminology window's remember options. I have these
> settings:
> 
> Identifiers tab:
> window class: terminology
> 
> Properties tab:
> position, size, border style, virtual desktop are checked
> 
> Options tab:
> match only one window
> start this program on login
> 
> The idea is to open a terminology window on login with the desired properties.
> 
> I'm running terminology 1.1.1 (this may have started when i upgraded
> from a previous version, come to think of it) and Enlightenment
> 0.22.1.
> 
> Does anyone have an idea what might be happening? Any more information
> i can provide?
> 
> Thanks,
> -Conrad.
> 
> -- 
> Shine like thunder
> Cry like rain
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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