[EPEL-devel] Re: EPEL-ANNOUNCE EPEL: Python34 moving to Python36

2019-03-28 Thread Kevin Fenzi
On 3/28/19 4:39 PM, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> On 28. 03. 19 21:54, Tuomo Soini wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:22:26 +0100
>> Miro Hrončok  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> A PR is at https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/python36/pull-request/27
>>
>>> I'm still not sure about how it will behave. We should probably test
>>> it.
>>
>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1687196
>>
>> Check my bug report first. You only need obsoletes in one place and
>> there was my suggested patch which was not good enough for some, but it
>> i a lot better than suggested change from Conflicts to Obsoletes all
>> over.
> 
> I don't understand why the obsoletes all over are any worse than just one.

In this case it's likely more what we want anyhow, as we want people to
move off the python34 packages. I don't think we want to keep them
around and supporting them forever. Obsoletes on everything will remove
the old python34 (and not pull in the new one) unless there's something
installed that actually needs python34.

kevin



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[EPEL-devel] Re: EPEL-ANNOUNCE EPEL: Python34 moving to Python36

2019-03-28 Thread Miro Hrončok

On 28. 03. 19 21:54, Tuomo Soini wrote:

On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:22:26 +0100
Miro Hrončok  wrote:



A PR is at https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/python36/pull-request/27



I'm still not sure about how it will behave. We should probably test
it.


https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1687196

Check my bug report first. You only need obsoletes in one place and
there was my suggested patch which was not good enough for some, but it
i a lot better than suggested change from Conflicts to Obsoletes all
over.


I don't understand why the obsoletes all over are any worse than just one.

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[EPEL-devel] Re: EPEL-ANNOUNCE EPEL: Python34 moving to Python36

2019-03-28 Thread Tuomo Soini
On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:22:26 +0100
Miro Hrončok  wrote:

> 
> A PR is at https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/python36/pull-request/27

> I'm still not sure about how it will behave. We should probably test
> it.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1687196

Check my bug report first. You only need obsoletes in one place and
there was my suggested patch which was not good enough for some, but it
i a lot better than suggested change from Conflicts to Obsoletes all
over.


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[EPEL-devel] Re: EPEL-ANNOUNCE EPEL: Python34 moving to Python36

2019-03-28 Thread Kevin Fenzi
On 3/28/19 5:22 AM, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> 
> A PR is at https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/python36/pull-request/27
> 
> I'm still not sure about how it will behave. We should probably test it.

I just did a bunch of testing and the Obsoletes works great.

It does mean if someone has only packages that depend on
/usr/bin/python3 and has python34 installed for that, on upgrade they
will get just python36 and no python34. However, I think thats fine.

If they have other things that depend on 34 (the abi, or libs or the
like), they will get python36 and the updated python34 that doesn't
provide /usr/bin/python3.

I'm +1 to add this to the update and give it some more baking time.

kevin




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[EPEL-devel] Re: EPEL-ANNOUNCE EPEL: Python34 moving to Python36

2019-03-28 Thread Neal Gompa
On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 8:22 AM Miro Hrončok  wrote:
>
> On 26. 03. 19 1:51, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> > On 25. 03. 19 18:56, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> >> Just make python36 obsolete the old version of python34 that had
> >> /usr/bin/python3. This causes yum to install the new python34 and pull
> >> in python36 for /usr/bin/python3.
> >
> > If that works, we are good. Does it really behave like that with plain 
> > upgrade?
> > E.g. without specifying what to upgrade?
> >
> > I thought that obsoleting old py34 can do one of the following:
> >
> > A) python34 gets queued for upgrading first, there is no more old python34 
> > to be
> > obsoleted by python36, python36 isn't installed.
> >
> > B) python36 gets queued for obsoleting old python34 first, python34 gets 
> > queued
> > for removing instead of updating, there is more pytho34 to be updated.
> >
> > C) what you said.
> >
> > If C) is the guaranteed behavior, I guess we are good to do this.
> >
> >> It does mean people with 3rd party software are now using python36
> >> instead of 34, but if they only speficied /usr/bin/python3, it should
> >> just run with any python3 version right?
> >
> > As long as they are only using standard library, yes. Otherwise there might 
> > be
> > problems. However that was anticipated.
>
> A PR is at https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/python36/pull-request/27
>
> I'm still not sure about how it will behave. We should probably test it.
>

Obsoletes means that the old package will get removed as part of the
upgrade. Conflicts means that yum has to figure out a way to keep it.
That's the difference.



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[EPEL-devel] Re: EPEL-ANNOUNCE EPEL: Python34 moving to Python36

2019-03-28 Thread Miro Hrončok

On 26. 03. 19 1:51, Miro Hrončok wrote:

On 25. 03. 19 18:56, Kevin Fenzi wrote:

Just make python36 obsolete the old version of python34 that had
/usr/bin/python3. This causes yum to install the new python34 and pull
in python36 for /usr/bin/python3.


If that works, we are good. Does it really behave like that with plain upgrade? 
E.g. without specifying what to upgrade?


I thought that obsoleting old py34 can do one of the following:

A) python34 gets queued for upgrading first, there is no more old python34 to be 
obsoleted by python36, python36 isn't installed.


B) python36 gets queued for obsoleting old python34 first, python34 gets queued 
for removing instead of updating, there is more pytho34 to be updated.


C) what you said.

If C) is the guaranteed behavior, I guess we are good to do this.


It does mean people with 3rd party software are now using python36
instead of 34, but if they only speficied /usr/bin/python3, it should
just run with any python3 version right?


As long as they are only using standard library, yes. Otherwise there might be 
problems. However that was anticipated.


A PR is at https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/python36/pull-request/27

I'm still not sure about how it will behave. We should probably test it.

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[EPEL-devel] Re: EPEL-ANNOUNCE EPEL: Python34 moving to Python36

2019-03-25 Thread Miro Hrončok

On 25. 03. 19 18:56, Kevin Fenzi wrote:

Just make python36 obsolete the old version of python34 that had
/usr/bin/python3. This causes yum to install the new python34 and pull
in python36 for /usr/bin/python3.


If that works, we are good. Does it really behave like that with plain upgrade? 
E.g. without specifying what to upgrade?


I thought that obsoleting old py34 can do one of the following:

A) python34 gets queued for upgrading first, there is no more old python34 to be 
obsoleted by python36, python36 isn't installed.


B) python36 gets queued for obsoleting old python34 first, python34 gets queued 
for removing instead of updating, there is more pytho34 to be updated.


C) what you said.

If C) is the guaranteed behavior, I guess we are good to do this.


It does mean people with 3rd party software are now using python36
instead of 34, but if they only speficied /usr/bin/python3, it should
just run with any python3 version right?


As long as they are only using standard library, yes. Otherwise there might be 
problems. However that was anticipated.


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[EPEL-devel] Re: EPEL-ANNOUNCE EPEL: Python34 moving to Python36

2019-03-25 Thread Kevin Fenzi
On 3/25/19 10:18 AM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 at 13:07, Miro Hrončok  wrote:
>>
>> On 13. 03. 19 15:30, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
>>> Over the last 5 days, Troy Dawson, Jeroen van Meeuwen, Carl W George,
>>> and several helpers have gotten nearly all of the python34 packages
>>> moves over to python36 in EPEL-7.  They are being included in 6 Bodhi
>>> pushes because of a limitation in Bodhi for the text size of packages
>>> in an include.
>>>
>>> The current day for these package groups to move into EPEL regular is
>>> April 2nd. We would like to have all tests we find in the next week or
>>> so also added so that the updates can occur in a large group without
>>> too much breakage.
>>
>> A problem was pointed out in
>> https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-EPEL-2019-f2d195dada#comment-914787
>>
>> If you have 3rd party software using /usr/bin/python3 and you have python34
>> installed, updating your system will remove that symlink and your software 
>> breaks.
>>
>> However we cannot obsolete python34 form python36, because that breaks 
>> software
>> that actually wants and uses /usr/bin/python3.4 and possibly make python34
>> uninstallable (not sure).
>>
>> So arguably, the update should update both python34 and install python36,
>> keeping both Pythons available, the user/admin could than remove the one 
>> that is
>> not needed.
>>
>> AFAIK The only thing that would make this happen is to require python36 from
>> python34. And that seems like a huge ugly workaround with unwanted side 
>> affects.
>>
> 
> Here is a hair-brained idea. have them both require
> python3-versioned-command which puts in the alternatives logic and
> sets it to 1 of 3 options?
> 1. python34
> 2. python36
> 3. you didn't install a python silly

I think that could be confusing (not that the alternatives are much
else. ;)

But we talked about this a lot on IRC.

Just make python36 obsolete the old version of python34 that had
/usr/bin/python3. This causes yum to install the new python34 and pull
in python36 for /usr/bin/python3.

It does mean people with 3rd party software are now using python36
instead of 34, but if they only speficied /usr/bin/python3, it should
just run with any python3 version right?

kevin




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[EPEL-devel] Re: EPEL-ANNOUNCE EPEL: Python34 moving to Python36

2019-03-25 Thread Stephen John Smoogen
On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 at 13:07, Miro Hrončok  wrote:
>
> On 13. 03. 19 15:30, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> > Over the last 5 days, Troy Dawson, Jeroen van Meeuwen, Carl W George,
> > and several helpers have gotten nearly all of the python34 packages
> > moves over to python36 in EPEL-7.  They are being included in 6 Bodhi
> > pushes because of a limitation in Bodhi for the text size of packages
> > in an include.
> >
> > The current day for these package groups to move into EPEL regular is
> > April 2nd. We would like to have all tests we find in the next week or
> > so also added so that the updates can occur in a large group without
> > too much breakage.
>
> A problem was pointed out in
> https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-EPEL-2019-f2d195dada#comment-914787
>
> If you have 3rd party software using /usr/bin/python3 and you have python34
> installed, updating your system will remove that symlink and your software 
> breaks.
>
> However we cannot obsolete python34 form python36, because that breaks 
> software
> that actually wants and uses /usr/bin/python3.4 and possibly make python34
> uninstallable (not sure).
>
> So arguably, the update should update both python34 and install python36,
> keeping both Pythons available, the user/admin could than remove the one that 
> is
> not needed.
>
> AFAIK The only thing that would make this happen is to require python36 from
> python34. And that seems like a huge ugly workaround with unwanted side 
> affects.
>

Here is a hair-brained idea. have them both require
python3-versioned-command which puts in the alternatives logic and
sets it to 1 of 3 options?
1. python34
2. python36
3. you didn't install a python silly


> Any ideas?
>
>
> --
> Miro Hrončok
> --
> Phone: +420777974800
> IRC: mhroncok
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[EPEL-devel] Re: EPEL-ANNOUNCE EPEL: Python34 moving to Python36

2019-03-25 Thread Miro Hrončok

On 13. 03. 19 15:30, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:

Over the last 5 days, Troy Dawson, Jeroen van Meeuwen, Carl W George,
and several helpers have gotten nearly all of the python34 packages
moves over to python36 in EPEL-7.  They are being included in 6 Bodhi
pushes because of a limitation in Bodhi for the text size of packages
in an include.

The current day for these package groups to move into EPEL regular is
April 2nd. We would like to have all tests we find in the next week or
so also added so that the updates can occur in a large group without
too much breakage.


A problem was pointed out in 
https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-EPEL-2019-f2d195dada#comment-914787


If you have 3rd party software using /usr/bin/python3 and you have python34 
installed, updating your system will remove that symlink and your software breaks.


However we cannot obsolete python34 form python36, because that breaks software 
that actually wants and uses /usr/bin/python3.4 and possibly make python34 
uninstallable (not sure).


So arguably, the update should update both python34 and install python36, 
keeping both Pythons available, the user/admin could than remove the one that is 
not needed.


AFAIK The only thing that would make this happen is to require python36 from 
python34. And that seems like a huge ugly workaround with unwanted side affects.


Any ideas?


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