Re: Observable GC

2017-10-20 Thread Mike Samuel
IIRC, Most sources of non-determinism are obvious: * Builtins like Date and Random * Host environment artifacts like network message receipt order and a piece of code that doesn't rely on one of those is deterministic. There are a few sources of non-determinism that are hard to statically rule

RE: Observable GC

2017-10-20 Thread Domenic Denicola
https://w3ctag.github.io/design-principles/#js-gc From: es-discuss [mailto:es-discuss-boun...@mozilla.org] On Behalf Of Michal Wadas Sent: Friday, October 20, 2017 08:07 To: es-discuss@mozilla.org Subject: Observable GC Hi. Is there any comprehensive answer about why ability to observe garbage

Observable GC

2017-10-20 Thread Michał Wadas
Hi. Is there any comprehensive answer about why ability to observe garbage collection is considered undesirable in JavaScript? Michał Wadas ___ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss

Re: styleguide sanity-check for tc39 language-proposals to address javascript-fatigue

2017-10-20 Thread Alexander Jones
I used the term 'language contributors' rather than TC39 as an intentionally vague way of describing people like us. The ISO C++ Committee also lacks a consensus on everything, but that doesn't mean those people and the people around them can't debate and establish a consensus on *something*.

Re: styleguide sanity-check for tc39 language-proposals to address javascript-fatigue

2017-10-20 Thread Michał Wadas
Though, PEP-8 was created in 2001 and in significant part codified already used conventions. And JavaScript does not have such widely followed conventions - except camelCase for functions and PascalCase for classes. On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Alexander Jones wrote: > I

Re: Observable GC

2017-10-20 Thread Filip Pizlo
For what it’s worth, I have never agreed with this policy. This policy seems to be based on feelings not facts. I remember implementing real time GCs for Java, which changed GC timing and behavior a lot, and having zero problem getting that aspect of the GC to work well with existing code. It

Re: Observable GC

2017-10-20 Thread Mike Samuel
On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Filip Pizlo wrote: > For what it’s worth, I have never agreed with this policy. This policy seems > to be based on feelings not facts. > > I remember implementing real time GCs for Java, which changed GC timing and > behavior a lot, and having

Re: Observable GC

2017-10-20 Thread Filip Pizlo
> On Oct 20, 2017, at 7:45 AM, Mike Samuel wrote: > >> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Filip Pizlo wrote: >> For what it’s worth, I have never agreed with this policy. This policy seems >> to be based on feelings not facts. >> >> I remember

Re: Observable GC

2017-10-20 Thread Filip Pizlo
> On Oct 20, 2017, at 10:29 AM, Mark Miller wrote: > > There is a glaring inconsistency in the criteria we use to evaluate these > issues. While we are understandably reluctant to admit more non-determinism > into the platform via weakrefs, we have admitted an

Re: Observable GC

2017-10-20 Thread Mark S. Miller
On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Filip Pizlo wrote: > > > On Oct 20, 2017, at 10:29 AM, Mark Miller wrote: > > There is a glaring inconsistency in the criteria we use to evaluate these > issues. While we are understandably reluctant to admit more

Re: Observable GC

2017-10-20 Thread Mark Miller
There is a glaring inconsistency in the criteria we use to evaluate these issues. While we are understandably reluctant to admit more non-determinism into the platform via weakrefs, we have admitted an astonishingly greater degree of non-determinism into the platform via "Shared Array Buffers"