Re: time to trim mustache

2012-06-01 Thread Allen Wirfs-Brock
On May 31, 2012, at 10:26 PM, David Herman wrote: It's become clear to me that mustache syntax is not well motivated. As a simple update for objects, there's little it can do that Object.extend couldn't do. Probably not surprisingly, I strongly disagree. First, WRT motivation. It's

Re: super, methods, constructors Co.

2012-06-01 Thread Allen Wirfs-Brock
On May 31, 2012, at 10:57 PM, Luke Hoban wrote: On May 31, 2012, at 1:54 PM, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote: On May 31, 2012, at 1:53 AM, Herby Vojčík wrote: Hello, reacting to super only in classes, I'd like to propose widening it just a little bit: 1. Allow super in every concise

Re: `with` revisited and related to object extension literals

2012-06-01 Thread T.J. Crowder
On 1 June 2012 03:23, David Herman dher...@mozilla.com wrote: There is *no* mixing of scope and object lookup in the cascade proposal. None at all. You're talking the technical details. I'm talking appearance and expectation in the eyes of developers. Just please stop saying that it's like

Re: `with` revisited and related to object extension literals

2012-06-01 Thread T.J. Crowder
On 1 June 2012 06:05, Brendan Eich bren...@mozilla.org wrote: Brendan Eich wrote: you're just rehashing a concern based on appearances which (I want to be clear; sorry for harshing on the 'with' point) is a valid concern. We should discuss it directly, no 'with'-semantics mixed in. /be

Re: `with` revisited and related to object extension literals

2012-06-01 Thread Aymeric Vitte
No, you are not alone. Mustache and cascade are interesting but maybe not extremely, extremely usefull. Then as people have tried since years, I did write too a 'with'-like proposal in strict mode, I already sent it some time ago and got 0 feedback, maybe I did not present it the right way,

RE: super, methods, constructors Co.

2012-06-01 Thread Domenic Denicola
-Original Message- From: es-discuss-boun...@mozilla.org [mailto:es-discuss- boun...@mozilla.org] On Behalf Of Allen Wirfs-Brock Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 04:05 We haven't eliminated the ability to define object literals that inherit from objects other than Object.prototype. We

Re: time to trim mustache

2012-06-01 Thread Kevin Smith
Hi Allen, I agree with your sentiments on the usefulness of mustache with respect to extending an object, but I think the point that brings it down is the fact that it will confuse developers with the put/define distinction. It just looks too much like batch assignment. Cascade (or the more

Re: `with` revisited and related to object extension literals

2012-06-01 Thread David Herman
On Jun 1, 2012, at 2:54 AM, T.J. Crowder wrote: Hey, no stress -- always happy to have input. Just please, no more bogus comparisons to `with`. Could we please avoid derogatory terms like bogus? I'm talking about what people see when they look at code (more below). That's a valid

Re: super, methods, constructors Co.

2012-06-01 Thread Oliver Hunt
On Jun 1, 2012, at 8:30 AM, Domenic Denicola wrote: -Original Message- From: es-discuss-boun...@mozilla.org [mailto:es-discuss- boun...@mozilla.org] On Behalf Of Allen Wirfs-Brock Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 04:05 We haven't eliminated the ability to define object literals that

Re: time to trim mustache

2012-06-01 Thread David Herman
On Jun 1, 2012, at 8:52 AM, Kevin Smith wrote: Regarding private names: I'm not convinced that private, non-reflective names are unproblematic in and of themselves. I would personally like to see more exploration on this front, with concrete use-cases. What useful things can we do with

Re: `with` revisited and related to object extension literals

2012-06-01 Thread T.J. Crowder
On 1 June 2012 18:02, David Herman dher...@mozilla.com wrote: I just take issue with the over-broad analogy to `with`. The problem with `with` is that it's statically undecidable whether any variable in the body is bound by the object or by something else in the scope chain. Yeah, at least,

Re: time to trim mustache

2012-06-01 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 10:16 AM, David Herman dher...@mozilla.com wrote: 1. Paving cowpaths: Crockford's closures-for-private-properties pattern but without the per-instance costs: function CrockClass() {    var myPrivateData = ...;    // one copy per instance    this.myMethod =

Re: time to trim mustache

2012-06-01 Thread David Herman
On Jun 1, 2012, at 12:26 AM, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote: These can (and now are) all done in multiple imperative steps. Mustache allows all of these sorts of object extensions to be accomplished using the exact same beautiful object literal syntax. A beautiful syntax for something that can

Re: `with` revisited and related to object extension literals

2012-06-01 Thread Brendan Eich
T.J. Crowder wrote: On 1 June 2012 18:02, David Herman dher...@mozilla.com mailto:dher...@mozilla.com wrote: I just take issue with the over-broad analogy to `with`. The problem with `with` is that it's statically undecidable whether any variable in the body is bound by the object

Re: super, methods, constructors Co.

2012-06-01 Thread David Herman
On Jun 1, 2012, at 10:10 AM, Oliver Hunt wrote: Also, I won't be around on email for the next week or so as I'm helping out on the ALC (if you feel like sponsoring here's a url: http://www.tofighthiv.org/site/TR/AIDSLIFECYCLE11/AIDSLifeCycleCenter?px=2583919pg=personalfr_id=1440) Go Ollie!