Private symbols vs property attributes

2013-02-07 Thread Andreas Rossberg
We intend to have both unique and private symbols. The only difference between the two is that the latter are filtered from certain reflective operations. I have come to think that this distinction is backwards. It is attributing something to symbols that actually is an attribute of properties.

Re: Private symbols vs property attributes

2013-02-07 Thread David Bruant
Le 07/02/2013 12:58, Andreas Rossberg a écrit : We intend to have both unique and private symbols. The only difference between the two is that the latter are filtered from certain reflective operations. I have come to think that this distinction is backwards. It is attributing something to

Re: Refutable pattern

2013-02-07 Thread Russell Leggett
I think prefix ? is easier from a reading point of view, but I'm not really married to either. Agreed, and I posted mainly to try to get to consensus. Prefix-? looks like it is in the lead. I think for the case of a long pattern with the ? outside the {}s, a prefix ? is easier to read.

Re: Private symbols vs property attributes

2013-02-07 Thread Andreas Rossberg
On 7 February 2013 13:23, David Bruant bruan...@gmail.com wrote: Le 07/02/2013 12:58, Andreas Rossberg a écrit : We intend to have both unique and private symbols. The only difference between the two is that the latter are filtered from certain reflective operations. I have come to think

Re: i18n testing issue

2013-02-07 Thread Nebojša Ćirić
Wrt. the 13.2.1_1.js. It seems that Chrome doesn't pass undefined to the toLocaleString from .call method, but you get Window instead (or whatever global this is), so the function never fails (in my case). I think implementations are free to pass non-undefined in .call if the object value is

Re: Jan 29 TC39 Meeting Notes

2013-02-07 Thread David Bruant
Le 07/02/2013 17:25, Rick Waldron a écrit : ## __proto__. YK: We just need compatibility LH: We need to just suck it up and standardize :-) YK/BE: Discussion re: interop with current implementations. BE: (Review of latest changes to __proto__ in Firefox) EA: Matches Safari BE: __proto__

Re: i18n testing issue

2013-02-07 Thread Norbert Lindenberg
They aren't free to decide: If the callee is in strict mode, it has to receive what the caller provided; if it's non-strict, then undefined and null are replaced by the global object (ES5.1, 10.4.3). But the global object isn't a number either... Norbert On Feb 7, 2013, at 8:55 , Nebojša

Re: Jan 29 TC39 Meeting Notes

2013-02-07 Thread Andreas Rossberg
On 7 February 2013 18:09, David Bruant bruan...@gmail.com wrote: Speaking of proxies, what should happen in the following case (setter and proxy from same realm): var protoSetter = Object.getOwnPropertyDescriptor(Object.prototype, '__proto__').set var p = new Proxy({}, handler);

Re: Jan 29 TC39 Meeting Notes

2013-02-07 Thread David Bruant
Le 07/02/2013 18:22, Andreas Rossberg a écrit : On 7 February 2013 18:09, David Bruant bruan...@gmail.com wrote: Speaking of proxies, what should happen in the following case (setter and proxy from same realm): var protoSetter = Object.getOwnPropertyDescriptor(Object.prototype, '__proto__').set

Re: Jan 31 TC39 Meeting Notes

2013-02-07 Thread Joshua Bell
Re: Maps and Sets comparators: On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 8:27 AM, Rick Waldron waldron.r...@gmail.com wrote: # January 30 2013 Meeting Notes (snip) ARB: if we have a forth form of equality as default, we should be honest, name it, and make it available separately YK: Can we use === and

Re: Jan 29 TC39 Meeting Notes

2013-02-07 Thread Andreas Rossberg
On 7 February 2013 18:36, David Bruant bruan...@gmail.com wrote: Le 07/02/2013 18:22, Andreas Rossberg a écrit : On 7 February 2013 18:09, David Bruant bruan...@gmail.com wrote: Speaking of proxies, what should happen in the following case (setter and proxy from same realm): var protoSetter

Minimal Module System Proposal

2013-02-07 Thread Brandon Benvie
I am hesitant to call this maximally minimal because the driving force behind coming up with this varies significantly from what drove maximally minimal classes. The driving force for this is the realization that the module system is perceived as being not close enough to being finished for ES6,

Re: Jan 29 TC39 Meeting Notes

2013-02-07 Thread Brendan Eich
On Feb 7, 2013, at 9:09 AM, David Bruant bruan...@gmail.com wrote: Le 07/02/2013 17:25, Rick Waldron a écrit : ## __proto__. Discussion re: MOP semantics with __proto__ BE: Proxy has to stratify the MOP. Speaking of proxies, what should happen in the following case (setter and proxy

Re: Minimal Module System Proposal

2013-02-07 Thread David Herman
On Feb 7, 2013, at 9:48 AM, Brandon Benvie bran...@brandonbenvie.com wrote: The goal here is not to claim that all is lost with the module system in full, because I do think that's not a certainty yet. I do think it is a likely enough outcome that there should be a fallback to capture the

Re: Minimal Module System Proposal

2013-02-07 Thread Brandon Benvie
I just want to clarify that what I've proposed is not any semantics that aren't in the module system. It's a prioritization of what pieces of the module system are important above the others. If the prioritization isn't needed, which I recognize it may not be, then what I said can safely be

Modules spec procedure suggestion (Re: Jan 31 TC39 Meeting Notes)

2013-02-07 Thread Claus Reinke
There has been a great deal of pressure from users wanting details about whether the modules spec will cover their use cases, from module library authors wanting to determine whether their most important features will be covered (so that they can retire their systems), and -more recently- from

Re: i18n testing issue

2013-02-07 Thread Allen Wirfs-Brock
The functions defined within the Ecma standards aren't specified using ECMAScript code so they aren't really either strict or non-strict. However, all the standard ES5 methods are specified assuming that the function gets what was actually passed. A standard method should never directly or

Re: Jan 31 TC39 Meeting Notes

2013-02-07 Thread Allen Wirfs-Brock
On Feb 7, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Joshua Bell wrote: Re: Maps and Sets comparators: On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 8:27 AM, Rick Waldron waldron.r...@gmail.com wrote: # January 30 2013 Meeting Notes (snip) **Conclusion/Resolution** - `Map( iterator = undefined, comparator = undefined )` -

Re: Private symbols vs property attributes

2013-02-07 Thread Allen Wirfs-Brock
On Feb 7, 2013, at 3:58 AM, Andreas Rossberg wrote: We intend to have both unique and private symbols. The only difference between the two is that the latter are filtered from certain reflective operations. I have come to think that this distinction is backwards. It is attributing

Re: Minimal Module System Proposal

2013-02-07 Thread Kevin Smith
Thanks, but let's not jump to any conclusions. I'm the champion of modules and wasn't even able to be a part of the discussion for family reasons. We can't make any judgment about the status of modules, or plans for reacting to the status of modules, before I've had a chance to be a part of

Re: Minimal Module System Proposal

2013-02-07 Thread Russell Leggett
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 9:25 PM, Kevin Smith khs4...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, but let's not jump to any conclusions. I'm the champion of modules and wasn't even able to be a part of the discussion for family reasons. We can't make any judgment about the status of modules, or plans for reacting

Re: Modules spec procedure suggestion (Re: Jan 31 TC39 Meeting Notes)

2013-02-07 Thread James Burke
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Claus Reinke claus.rei...@talk21.com wrote: There are some existing ES.next modules shims/transpilers that could be used as a starting point. Here is an experiment I did with a JS module syntax that allowed for a static compile time hooks for things like macros,