Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
On 12/17/02 02am, Joseph Carter wrote: > You can use whatever editor you prefer for writing your mail. I guess you > already have a favorite? I use vim, which works for me but is certainly > not for the faint of heart. Debian now uses nano as its default editor > because of its onscreen commands which are very simple. > > You then need a mail reader program. The two most common choices are mutt > and pine. I found pine's license to be annoying and moved to mutt a few > years ago. > > > If you want to spell-check your mail, you'll need aspell or ispell. I do > not know how these integrate with mutt yet, but can figure it out. Joseph, I configured vim for shpell cheking with mutt by adding the following line to my ~/.vimrc file: :autocmd FileType mail :nmap :w:!aspell -e -c %:e This werks great everietime. Ralph ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
-- From: Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system Date: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 2:20 AM >> I doubt there'll be any problem. Where can we connect? Do you come to clincs, or live in downtown or near a bus line. I can make other arrangements if you don't. >I do; I am the one with the white hair and beard with my nose most likely buried in a shiny laptop. I'll plan on me and my CPU, keyboard, money etc. being there Thursday. Anything else special I should bring? >=) Unless I'm busy telling everyone how absolutely awesome The Two Towers was, since I will be seeing it Wednesday at its second showing. =D I'll be seeing it sometime soon. I'm also waiting impatiently for Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine, documentary about gun issues. What this = stuff? >I live a block from UO near Sacred Heart, so you don't get much more bus line than that. That's close enough that I'd walk instead. >My number is 302-4295, I check messages often though I am seldom here to receive them when they're left. >> >More information is required really. What exactly does he need? > More detail means better ability to do what is needed quickly, > efficiently, and cheaply. ;) > >> The basics, for a start. I don't know enough about what else is > available. >Well, to start with you need a way to get mail on your system from EFN or wherever else. The standard issue program for this is fetchmail. Once set up, you never need to worry about it again unless you change ISPs. The syntax of the config files is simple enough that I can include a comment line explaining how to add a new ISP or edit an old one. I may make use of that soon. I think I have the programs, just a matte of getting them working together. >Then you need to get mail from your system to your ISP. There are a number of programs for this, some simple and most not. I have yet to find the ideal mail server for a single workstation talking to an ISP, but most of the full-featured ones can be made to do only that much. I use postfix which has served me well enough. >You can use whatever editor you prefer for writing your mail. I guess you already have a favorite? I use vim, which works for me but is certainly not for the faint of heart. Debian now uses nano as its default editor because of its onscreen commands which are very simple. I think I've heard good things about it. I didn't care much for emacs, but maybe someone can explain some things about it. Otherwise, I haven't tried enough to know. >You then need a mail reader program. The two most common choices are mutt and pine. I found pine's license to be annoying and moved to mutt a few years ago. We think alike. >If you want to spell-check your mail, you'll need aspell or ispell. Dexter seems to think I need it. :) And I'm not disagreeing. >If you want your mail to not all wind up in your main inbox, you will want a procmail setup. I can walk you through the mail filter FAQ and help you get messages filtered. >Also, if you have not discovered screen and minicom, the former I've used quite extensively and the latter behaves an awful lot like Telix for DOS did. Sounds good, though I was hoping for something a bit more advanced than Telix, eventually. I'd like sending new or updated files to my web site (which badly needs some) to be as easy as sending email. I could store files in local directory tree equivalent of my site, and when I log on it would automatical send them to the proper place, replacing as needed. Is that possible? Then there's also my printer, which in Linux still prints in "stairsteps". Someone gave me script for that, but I think I didn't know what to do with it. Dan ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
-- > From: Linux Rocks ! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system > Date: Monday, December 16, 2002 9:08 PM > > A menu system doesnt even imply a graphical interface. We used to write menu > systems (all text based) to make it it easier for users to do what they need > rather than having to remember all the names of the programs they would type > at a command prompt. Many users get frustrated a a command prompt and having > thier options displayed infront of them make thier use easier. That's the right idea. > Somehow, I think dan wants a lot of hand holding... It might be better to show > him how to read manual pages, and get the info he needs, rather than to just > teach him how to use a few programs. When it's readable, I think I pick up info better that way. > It sounds more like Dan *Wants* a text based system, He does infact have > windows, but wants to stop using windows correct? And anything that looks like it. Dan ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
-- > From: Ben Huot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system > Date: Monday, December 16, 2002 3:51 AM > > I can just email you the configuration files if someone with BSD > experience like Jacob Meuser who set it up or someone else will tell me > which files are they are - they are all in the etc folder but there are > too many to fit on a floppy. I can just trade him computers if he wants > since mine is all set up and about the same era. On thing we would > necessarily have to change - the login and password for the ppp > connection. Also I am mentally disabled not physically so I can get > there by bus if he lives somewhere in the city. When I mean several days > that would be a couple hours each day - I could get it done in maybe 4-6 > hours in one day. I could also do it faster if someone gave me a couple > of key bits of information. Two experts on these "antique" systems is always better than one. Trade computers with me? I'd have to copy most of my hard disk. There's too much stuff I want to keep. Dan ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
-- > From: Dexter Graphic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: Dan Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system > Date: Monday, December 16, 2002 1:37 PM > > > I assume he'd be wise to use a menu system of some sort. I can help > > there as well, though I have not actually used any program that might be > > useful except for pdmenu, which is likely not what he would want. > > Why would he want/need a menu system? If he prefers text-based interaction > with his computer I would expect him to be able to issue console commands. Oops, not quite so. Depending on what you mean by menus, I think optional ones, that can be disabled as one learns commands, are quite useful. At the novice level, pushing Alt or Ctrl would give a menu, with sub-menus to follow. Later, have main menus come on after a hesitation, then not at all. Similarly with sub-menus. Rather like CPM Wordstar from the seventies. > We're talking about a completely functional mail system here with all > of the above-mentioned programs configured and usable. Did you figure > in training and tech support? Do you think that he is going to be able > to do all the things you can without your walking him through it and > explaining ever step of the way? Hey, I can read also, and even ask questions. And sometimes I get intelligible answers. :) > I don't know how to be any more specific about this than I already have: > Dan needs to get a text-based mail system working on his system. He already > has Debian 3.0 installed and working fine. PPP and vwdial is already setup > and working. He needs fetchmail, sendmail, procmail, mutt, emacs, and aspell > configured so that he ends up with a fully functional GNU/Linux mail system. What I need is an email "package", with nice short "commands", but maybe that will have to come later. > You should be able to present Dan with a package price to get the job done. > That way he won't have to worried about costs escalating out of control. Joseph sounds like an "expert" on my system, and I don't think there'll be any problem. Dan ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
*sigh* I hate mailman. =p -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Now I'll take over the world "What are we going to do tonight, Bill?" "Same thing we do every night Steve, try to take over the world!" msg12122/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 11:53:01PM -0800, Dan Robinson wrote: > > Here are the facts: > > > >> Dan does not want to use a graphical user interface (GUI) to > relate to his computer (that means no windows, icons, mice, or > pointers). He has a philosophical/political preference for free (as > in speech) software and would rather not continue using Windows 95 > and its lame Internet Mail program with no spell checking. > > >With the exception of the spell-checking, this is old hat for me, > all of it. I can figure this much out though, relatively simply. > > >> It has been demonstrated at recent EUGLUG meetings that a > text-based mail system is possible with GNU/Linux. Dan actually has > the software on his computer (Debian 3.0). The problem which remains > is figuring out how to configure and use it. (Dan's computer, by the > way, is a desktop Pentium 133, with 32MB of ram, a Matrox SVGA card, > a CD ROM that is not bootable from the BIOS, and a hard disk that's > at least 2GB in capacity.) > > >Indeed; I use one exclusively. > > It sound like "you' the man". I have simple justification - I'm legally blind, text is easier to work with than graphics, since terminal windows can be made more readable. I do work under a GUI (window maker) but I use primarily terminal windows under it. My mail setup is totally text-based and has been for longer than I have used Linux certainly. > >Setting it all up for him is something I am able to do, but it would > take me a couple of hours at least to produce something which any > idiot could use. I assume he'd be wise to use a menu system of some > sort. I can help there as well, though I have not actually used any > program that might be useful except for pdmenu, which is likely not > what he would want. > > >I would offer my time freely, but experience shows me that: > 1. If I do what I would normally expect to be paid for freely, then > nobody will expect to pay me for it. > 2. My cost of living is higher than my income. > 3. A small exchange of money for services tends to leave everyone > feeling that nothing is owed to anyone. I do not like to owe or feel > like I owe anybody personally, and I do not like to feel as if I am > owed somethinga. > > I doubt there'll be any problem. Where can we connect? Do you come to > clincs, or live in downtown or near a bus line. I can make other > arrangements if you don't. I do; I am the one with the white hair and beard with my nose most likely buried in a shiny laptop. =) Unless I'm busy telling everyone how absolutely awesome The Two Towers was, since I will be seeing it Wednesday at its second showing. =D I live a block from UO near Sacred Heart, so you don't get much more bus line than that. My number is 302-4295, I check messages often though I am seldom here to receive them when they're left. > >More information is required really. What exactly does he need? > More detail means better ability to do what is needed quickly, > efficiently, and cheaply. ;) > > The basics, for a start. I don't know enough about what else is > available. Well, to start with you need a way to get mail on your system from EFN or wherever else. The standard issue program for this is fetchmail. Once set up, you never need to worry about it again unless you change ISPs. The syntax of the config files is simple enough that I can include a comment line explaining how to add a new ISP or edit an old one. Then you need to get mail from your system to your ISP. There are a number of programs for this, some simple and most not. I have yet to find the ideal mail server for a single workstation talking to an ISP, but most of the full-featured ones can be made to do only that much. I use postfix which has served me well enough. You can use whatever editor you prefer for writing your mail. I guess you already have a favorite? I use vim, which works for me but is certainly not for the faint of heart. Debian now uses nano as its default editor because of its onscreen commands which are very simple. You then need a mail reader program. The two most common choices are mutt and pine. I found pine's license to be annoying and moved to mutt a few years ago. If you want to spell-check your mail, you'll need aspell or ispell. I do not know how these integrate with mutt yet, but can figure it out. If you want your mail to not all wind up in your main inbox, you will want a procmail setup. I can walk you through the mail filter FAQ and help you get messages filtered. Also, if you have not discovered screen and minicom, the former I've used quite extensively and the latter behaves an awful lot like Telix for DOS did. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You're entitled to my opinion knghtbrd: there may be no spoon, but can you spot the vulnerability in eye_render_shiny_object.c? -- rcw msg12121/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
-- From: Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: EUGLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system Date: Monday, December 16, 2002 12:02 AM On Sun, Dec 15, 2002 at 09:03:47AM -0800, Dexter Graphic wrote: > Here are the facts: > >> Dan does not want to use a graphical user interface (GUI) to relate to his computer (that means no windows, icons, mice, or pointers). He has a philosophical/political preference for free (as in speech) software and would rather not continue using Windows 95 and its lame Internet Mail program with no spell checking. >With the exception of the spell-checking, this is old hat for me, all of it. I can figure this much out though, relatively simply. >> It has been demonstrated at recent EUGLUG meetings that a text-based mail system is possible with GNU/Linux. Dan actually has the software on his computer (Debian 3.0). The problem which remains is figuring out how to configure and use it. (Dan's computer, by the way, is a desktop Pentium 133, with 32MB of ram, a Matrox SVGA card, a CD ROM that is not bootable from the BIOS, and a hard disk that's at least 2GB in capacity.) >Indeed; I use one exclusively. It sound like "you' the man". >Setting it all up for him is something I am able to do, but it would take me a couple of hours at least to produce something which any idiot could use. I assume he'd be wise to use a menu system of some sort. I can help there as well, though I have not actually used any program that might be useful except for pdmenu, which is likely not what he would want. >I would offer my time freely, but experience shows me that: 1. If I do what I would normally expect to be paid for freely, then nobody will expect to pay me for it. 2. My cost of living is higher than my income. 3. A small exchange of money for services tends to leave everyone feeling that nothing is owed to anyone. I do not like to owe or feel like I owe anybody personally, and I do not like to feel as if I am owed somethinga. I doubt there'll be any problem. Where can we connect? Do you come to clincs, or live in downtown or near a bus line. I can make other arrangements if you don't. >More information is required really. What exactly does he need? More detail means better ability to do what is needed quickly, efficiently, and cheaply. ;) The basics, for a start. I don't know enough about what else is available. Dan Robinson 541-465-4790 350 Pearl St. #1105 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eugene OR 97401 http://www.efn.org/~danrob/ ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
-- > From: Beaker (aka Jeff W) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system > Date: Sunday, December 15, 2002 10:46 PM > > I'd like to apologize for the harsh tone of my earlier post. I'm sure > Dan deserves a hand with with breaking the Windows habit as much as > anybody. What can I say - all this rain is starting to get to me... All is forgiven, especially considering the kayak. I don't have a very thin skin. I hope no one else does either. Dan ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
-- > From: Nerdboy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system > Date: Sunday, December 15, 2002 10:14 PM > > Part of dan's problem is that he's using a very old computer. "Very old" meaning five to seven years maybe? There must be a lot around that old. I suspect one fifteen years old would be sufficient for me, if it had a working OS I liked. It was only about three years ago that I gave up my 386. How about systems for the "third world", locally and elsewhere, those who don't believe in buying a new car and a new computer every year, as well as those who can't afford one? > People with new computers can easily install linux, people with older computers have better luck using older software. But I remember someone with Linux on an early equivalent of a palmtop in about '95. What happened to such systems? > Softare that was written around the time that his computer was new would likely be easier, however he would be missing out on a lot of the benefits of newwer software. Hey, lead me to it. (WeIl, now I'll wait and see on that.) I haven't found anyone who'd talk about such. Does it have alias (or some kind of macro) capabilities? That's the most under-used feature I've seen, or at least been able to recognize, on Linux. Dan ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
-- > From: Dexter Graphic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system > Date: Sunday, December 15, 2002 7:48 PM > > Since Dan is no longer subscribed to this list and I know him pretty well as a friend, I think I can answer this question on his behalf. Aha! Fooled ya. I didn't use the right method to unsubscribe. > He feels that it's way too complicated for him and that you'd have to be a computer programmer to figure it out. He sees himself more as a computer user than a computer tech. He's just like most people in this respect. They have other things on their minds, like work they want to do with the computer, but they are not interested in figuring out how the computer works. It's the same with car troubles; most people just take their car to an automotive mechanic when things aren't working right and pay them for their expertise in figuring these things out. It's actually more efficient than them spending the months of study to be an even marginally competent mechanic. You've got it right. > Anyway, by posting my proposal I was hoping to help Dan determine the minimum amount of money he would have to pay out to get his problem solved. But it's also the time it's taken/may take. > Like any hesitant customer, Dan just needs to be shown the benefits of spending some money. He's already sold on Debian, Not absolutely, at this point in time. But since it's most of the way there... Dan ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
-- > From: Ben Huot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system > Date: Sunday, December 15, 2002 10:34 AM > > I'd be willing to do it for free as I am a disabled veteran and cannot receive money. I don't know how long it would take me though I am sure I could finish it in a few days. I don't have a car though. Thanks, but I think I may have a better offer. Dan ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
-- > From: Beaker (aka Jeff W) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system > Date: Sunday, December 15, 2002 11:00 PM > > why download the messages? I believe Dan has an EFN > account, right? He should be able to ssh into EFN and run Pine or Mutt, > no? If yes, then all thats left is the PPP configuration. Even if EFN > doesn't allow Pine/Mutt on their system, there are other alternatives > like freeshell.org which do. I've used to have a shell account at EFN, using DOS Telix, and used Pine. But I just have one phone line. For that and other reasons, I'd rather work offline, and it was a lot of bother if I wanted to save anything on my own computer. Probably easier now. In fact sometimes I'd like to have a web "browser" that worked through email, and especially for a friend, who only has email. There used to be an address where you could send a URL and get the text of a web page. Does anyone know of such today? Dan ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
--
> From: Dexter Graphic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: EUGLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
> Date: Sunday, December 15, 2002 9:03 AM
>
> For some reason Dan is unwilling to spend the necessary time
> and effort to read the instructions and figure it out for
> himself. For some reason no on else from EUGLUG is willing
> to do this for him for free (as in beer).
Come on, I paid "someone from EUGLUG" already, several times (not
much maybe by present standards, but a price he agreed on), for
setting up a system, preferably without, but also with a GUI, and
still no luck.
And yes, I've put some time into it myself, as some of you may
remember, but computers aren't everything in my life, as perhaps with
some people. ("I could do great[er] things, if I wasn't so busy doing
little things.") I don't often find instructions I'm sure are written
in English. It often seems Linux people are more interested in trying
new things than in getting time-tested things working well. Many
command lines I see seem more like writing sub-routines instead of
"commands". I also find quite a few things that even the "experts"
can't figure out how to do. Why aren't many of these "compacted",
using aliases and such? (That's something I hope to work on if I ever
get Linux email going reasonably.) I still remember programs from CPM
and DOS that had some advantages. Why such problems in Linux?
Why no GUI? Most of the time they seem to me like great wasters of
time, disk space and processing power. They may be easier to learn
(if you have time to wade through the instructions for the
non-intuitive parts), but I think, slower to actually use, which is
what I prefer to do. My ideal is to never have to take my hands off
home keys, at least when writing, giving commands, and most other
things, except drawing and maybe diagramming. Of course to be
complete, that would also require my own design of keyboard.
I'll get back to ya.
Dan Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Eugene OR 97401 http://www.efn.org/~danrob/
"Look not at what is and ask 'why'.
look at what could be and ask 'why not'."
- RFK?
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Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
On Monday 16 December 2002 01:37 pm, Dexter Graphic wrote: : > : > Setting it all up for him is something I am able to do, but it would take : > me a couple of hours at least to produce something which any idiot could : > use. : : This is a poor choice of words because Dan is not an idiot. Perhaps he could have added "even", however I dont belive that Joe was implying that dan was an idiot, rather that he was say it would be extreemly easy to use. If we are going to be that critical, I would say that your sentance above would be better written if you had started it with "perhaps" which would imply that is your option, rather than a *fact* : : > I assume he'd be wise to use a menu system of some sort. I can help : > there as well, though I have not actually used any program that might be : > useful except for pdmenu, which is likely not what he would want. : : Why would he want/need a menu system? If he prefers text-based interaction : with his computer I would expect him to be able to issue console commands. A menu system doesnt even imply a graphical interface. We used to write menu systems (all text based) to make it it easier for users to do what they need rather than having to remember all the names of the programs they would type at a command prompt. Many users get frustrated a a command prompt and having thier options displayed infront of them make thier use easier. If your unfamiliar with a menu system, try EFN's Menu program (gotta have an EFN account...) : : > > So here is my proposal: : > > : > > If Dan pays me at a rate of $10 an hour, I will figure it : > > out and get a text-based mail system working on his system. : > > That includes setting up PPP, fetchmail, sendmail, procmail, : > > mutt, emacs, and aspell. Since I know very little about any : > > of these programs, I figure it will take me at least 25 : > > hours and possibly as many as 50 to get Dan's mail system : > > working. This means it would cost Dan $250 to $500 to solve : > > his problem. : > : > I can do the mail setup however he needs it in just a few hours at the : > same rate. ;) : : We're talking about a completely functional mail system here with all : of the above-mentioned programs configured and usable. Did you figure : in training and tech support? Do you think that he is going to be able : to do all the things you can without your walking him through it and : explaining ever step of the way? Somehow, I think dan wants a lot of hand holding... It might be better to show him how to read manual pages, and get the info he needs, rather than to just teach him how to use a few programs. : : > I would offer my time freely, but experience shows me that: : > : > 1. If I do what I would normally expect to be paid for freely, then : > nobody will expect to pay me for it. : > 2. My cost of living is higher than my income. : > 3. A small exchange of money for services tends to leave everyone feeling : >that nothing is owed to anyone. I do not like to owe or feel like I : >owe anybody personally, and I do not like to feel as if I am owed : >something. : : Good thinking; although, if you are as experienced at all this as you say : you are then you should be charging more than the $10 I would have charged. : In the areas where I am an expert, like designing MS Access databases for : small businesses, I charge $48 per hour. : : > > If anyone else with more expertise than me is willing to do : > > it for less, then please submit your own proposals. : > : > More information is required really. What exactly does he need? More : > detail means better ability to do what is needed quickly, efficiently, : > and cheaply. ;) : : I don't know how to be any more specific about this than I already have: : Dan needs to get a text-based mail system working on his system. He already : has Debian 3.0 installed and working fine. PPP and vwdial is already setup : and working. He needs fetchmail, sendmail, procmail, mutt, emacs, and : aspell configured so that he ends up with a fully functional GNU/Linux mail : system. _And_ he will need to be shown how to use it. Perhaps you can print : out the proper documentation so he has something to refer to while he's : learning. Of course you should also include some time for phone support : when he runs into problems down the road. It sounds more like Dan *Wants* a text based system, He does infact have windows, but wants to stop using windows correct? : : You should be able to present Dan with a package price to get the job done. : That way he won't have to worried about costs escalating out of control. : : My experience is that whatever amount of time you think it will take double : it. : : I am forwarding this correspondence to Dan so if you need any further : clarification just talk to him directly. CC me if you want my input. : : Dexter : : > -- : > Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Don't feed the : > sigs : > : > I did it just to pis
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 03:51:12AM -0800, Ben Huot wrote: > I can just email you the configuration files if someone with BSD > experience like Jacob Meuser who set it up or someone else will tell me > which files are they are - they are all in the etc folder but there are > too many to fit on a floppy. I can just trade him computers if he wants > since mine is all set up and about the same era. On thing we would > necessarily have to change - the login and password for the ppp > connection. Also I am mentally disabled not physically so I can get > there by bus if he lives somewhere in the city. When I mean several days > that would be a couple hours each day - I could get it done in maybe 4-6 > hours in one day. I could also do it faster if someone gave me a couple > of key bits of information. ppp config: /etc/ppp/ppp.conf pf config: /etc/pf.conf mail config: (I don't know if I even changed this on your setup) /usr/share/sendmail/cf/openbsd-localhost.mc -> /etc/mail/localhost.cf local startup config: /etc/rc.conf.local & /etc/rc.local -- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system // actual more general.
On Sun, Dec 15, 2002 at 08:45:02PM -0800, Horst wrote: > Ben, thanks for doing this! > I thinks I know Dan, and he is a nice guy (maybe twice the age of most of > us, in that respect a test case on how well 'we' we are doing in community > support, helping folks with a limited budget, and an old PC with limited > resources) > In more general terms, is there a 'distro', as .tgz, on CD, ... choice> that fits such people's needs --to some extend out of the > box? (GUI being a NoNo on a P155) I could put a single .tgz together for this. Just 'pkg_add mutt' to an OpenBSD base system. Heck, I could even setup the mail and ppp for EFN defaults. As well as basic pf. A single floppy, an ~20MB tarball. 10 minute install and setup. But how many people really just want text based email and www? And, of course, which *nix text editor is going to be "easy" for converts? I like mg (formerly known as 'micro GNU Emacs', until RMS said, "That's not GNU software"), maybe nano would be easier? -- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
RE: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > Joseph Carter > Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 00:03 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: EUGLUG; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system > > > On Sun, Dec 15, 2002 at 09:03:47AM -0800, Dexter Graphic wrote: > > Here are the facts: > > > > Dan does not want to use a graphical user interface (GUI) to > > relate to his computer (that means no windows, icons, mice, > > or pointers). He has a philosophical/political preference for > > free (as in speech) software and would rather not continue > > using Windows 95 and its lame Internet Mail program with no > > spell checking. > > With the exception of the spell-checking, this is old hat for me, all of > it. I can figure this much out though, relatively simply. > > > > It has been demonstrated at recent EUGLUG meetings that a > > text-based mail system is possible with GNU/Linux. Dan > > actually has the software on his computer (Debian 3.0). The > > problem which remains is figuring out how to configure and > > use it. (Dan's computer, by the way, is a desktop Pentium > > 133, with 32MB of ram, a Matrox SVGA card, a CD ROM that is > > not bootable from the BIOS, and a hard disk that's at least > > 2GB in capacity.) > > Indeed; I use one exclusively. > > > > For some reason Dan is unwilling to spend the necessary time > > and effort to read the instructions and figure it out for > > himself. For some reason no on else from EUGLUG is willing > > to do this for him for free (as in beer). > > Setting it all up for him is something I am able to do, but it would take > me a couple of hours at least to produce something which any idiot could > use. This is a poor choice of words because Dan is not an idiot. > I assume he'd be wise to use a menu system of some sort. I can help > there as well, though I have not actually used any program that might be > useful except for pdmenu, which is likely not what he would want. Why would he want/need a menu system? If he prefers text-based interaction with his computer I would expect him to be able to issue console commands. > > So here is my proposal: > > > > If Dan pays me at a rate of $10 an hour, I will figure it > > out and get a text-based mail system working on his system. > > That includes setting up PPP, fetchmail, sendmail, procmail, > > mutt, emacs, and aspell. Since I know very little about any > > of these programs, I figure it will take me at least 25 > > hours and possibly as many as 50 to get Dan's mail system > > working. This means it would cost Dan $250 to $500 to solve > > his problem. > > I can do the mail setup however he needs it in just a few hours at the > same rate. ;) We're talking about a completely functional mail system here with all of the above-mentioned programs configured and usable. Did you figure in training and tech support? Do you think that he is going to be able to do all the things you can without your walking him through it and explaining ever step of the way? > I would offer my time freely, but experience shows me that: > > 1. If I do what I would normally expect to be paid for freely, then nobody >will expect to pay me for it. > 2. My cost of living is higher than my income. > 3. A small exchange of money for services tends to leave everyone feeling >that nothing is owed to anyone. I do not like to owe or feel like I >owe anybody personally, and I do not like to feel as if I am owed >something. Good thinking; although, if you are as experienced at all this as you say you are then you should be charging more than the $10 I would have charged. In the areas where I am an expert, like designing MS Access databases for small businesses, I charge $48 per hour. > > If anyone else with more expertise than me is willing to do > > it for less, then please submit your own proposals. > > More information is required really. What exactly does he need? More > detail means better ability to do what is needed quickly, efficiently, and > cheaply. ;) I don't know how to be any more specific about this than I already have: Dan needs to get a text-based mail system working on his system. He already has Debian 3.0 installed and working fine. PPP and vwdial is already setup and working. He needs fetchmail, sendmail, procmail, mutt, emacs, and aspell configured so that he ends up with a fully functional GNU/Linux mail system. _And_ he will need to be shown how to use it. Perhaps you can print out the proper documentation so he has something to refer to while he's learning. Of cour
RE: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
> >> Part of dan's problem is that he's using a very old computer. People with new > >> computers can easily install linux, people with older computers have better > >> luck using older software.Softare that was written around the time that his > >> computer was new would likely be easier, however he would be missing out on a > >> lot of the benefits of newwer software. This is not the case at all; Dan's computer is sufficiently "new" to run all the necessary text-based programs. As I clearly indicated he does not _want_ to run and GUI software, and Debian 3.0 is installed and working on his box just fine. What he wants/needs is to get a text-based mail program working. > >Actually, Dan's hardware can run a fresh NetBSD/OpenBSD distro no sweat > >(heck - he could even run X with wm2 fairly well if he wants to). There is no reason to switch distros; Dan has already spent considerable time and resources getting Debian setup and learning how to use it. > >One thing though: why download the messages? I believe Dan has an EFN > >account, right? He should be able to ssh into EFN and run Pine or Mutt, > >no? If yes, then all thats left is the PPP configuration. Even if EFN > >doesn't allow Pine/Mutt on their system, there are other alternatives > >like freeshell.org which do. > > EFN supports shell access, we have Pine and Mutt. > He doesn't even need to do PPP to connect to EFN. This has been suggested already, by Larry Price at one of our Emerald Park meetings over a year ago as a matter of fact, and Dan said that he wanted to download his mail and work off-line so that he could free up his phone while he was reading and responding to messages. Dexter Graphic -- Always trying to present things as clearly as possible. ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
Around Sun,Dec 15 2002, at 11:00, Beaker (aka Jeff W), wrote: >> Part of dan's problem is that he's using a very old computer. People with new >> computers can easily install linux, people with older computers have better >> luck using older software.Softare that was written around the time that his >> computer was new would likely be easier, however he would be missing out on a >> lot of the benefits of newwer software. > >Actually, Dan's hardware can run a fresh NetBSD/OpenBSD distro no sweat >(heck - he could even run X with wm2 fairly well if he wants to). One >thing though: why download the messages? I believe Dan has an EFN >account, right? He should be able to ssh into EFN and run Pine or Mutt, >no? If yes, then all thats left is the PPP configuration. Even if EFN >doesn't allow Pine/Mutt on their system, there are other alternatives >like freeshell.org which do. EFN supports shell access, we have Pine and Mutt. He doesn't even need to do PPP to connect to EFN. Roger -- ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
Maybe fetchmail has a hiccup. Linux Rocks ! ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote*: > >I havnt seen any dupicates? simular, but not duplicates... > >Jamie > >On Sunday 15 December 2002 11:14 pm, Bob Crandell wrote: >: The rain is getting to the mail system too. I'm getting lots of duplicate >: email. >: >: Beaker (aka Jeff W) ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote*: >: >> : > *Reality Check!* >: > >: >I'd like to apologize for the harsh tone of my earlier post. I'm sure >: >Dan deserves a hand with with breaking the Windows habit as much as >: >anybody. What can I say - all this rain is starting to get to me... >: > >: >-beaker >: > >: >___ >: >Eug-LUG mailing list >: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >: >http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug > > >___ >Eug-LUG mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug > -- Bob Crandell Assured Computing When you need to be sure. Voice 541-689-9159 FAX 240-371-7237 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.assuredcomp.com Eugene, Or. 97402 ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
I can just email you the configuration files if someone with BSD experience like Jacob Meuser who set it up or someone else will tell me which files are they are - they are all in the etc folder but there are too many to fit on a floppy. I can just trade him computers if he wants since mine is all set up and about the same era. On thing we would necessarily have to change - the login and password for the ppp connection. Also I am mentally disabled not physically so I can get there by bus if he lives somewhere in the city. When I mean several days that would be a couple hours each day - I could get it done in maybe 4-6 hours in one day. I could also do it faster if someone gave me a couple of key bits of information. Dexter Graphic wrote: Ben I will forward your offer to Dan. Maybe he'll let you take the computer home for a few days while you figure it out. If I can get Dan to pay me for my trouble, I'll even shuttle it back and forth; he does not have a car either. Dex From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ben Huot Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 10:34 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system I'd be willing to do it for free as I am a disabled veteran and cannot receive money. I don't know how long it would take me though I am sure I could finish it in a few days. I don't have a car though. I have installed Mandrake before and I actually have a BSD system up and running text only configured for efn. I could probably copy settings from that. This would be a valuable learning experience for me. Dexter Graphic wrote: Since this topic keeps coming up as an unresolved issue on the list I will address it here explicitly and openly with the hope that we will be able to solve it once and for all. Here are the facts: Dan does not want to use a graphical user interface (GUI) to relate to his computer (that means no windows, icons, mice, or pointers). He has a philosophical/political preference for free (as in speech) software and would rather not continue using Windows 95 and its lame Internet Mail program with no spell checking. It has been demonstrated at recent EUGLUG meetings that a text-based mail system is possible with GNU/Linux. Dan actually has the software on his computer (Debian 3.0). The problem which remains is figuring out how to configure and use it. (Dan's computer, by the way, is a desktop Pentium 133, with 32MB of ram, a Matrox SVGA card, a CD ROM that is not bootable from the BIOS, and a hard disk that's at least 2GB in capacity.) For some reason Dan is unwilling to spend the necessary time and effort to read the instructions and figure it out for himself. For some reason no on else from EUGLUG is willing to do this for him for free (as in beer). So here is my proposal: If Dan pays me at a rate of $10 an hour, I will figure it out and get a text-based mail system working on his system. That includes setting up PPP, fetchmail, sendmail, procmail, mutt, emacs, and aspell. Since I know very little about any of these programs, I figure it will take me at least 25 hours and possibly as many as 50 to get Dan's mail system working. This means it would cost Dan $250 to $500 to solve his problem. If anyone else with more expertise than me is willing to do it for less, then please submit your own proposals. Dexter Graphic -- Always trying to present things clearly. ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- ^ ^ (*) (*) <= \ / => o o ? /// \ /// % /// @ ////// /// \\ | | | // \\ U U U // U U Ben Huot Peasant-Scholar [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- ^ ^ (*) (*) <= \ / => o o ? /// \ /// % /// @ ////// /// \\ | | | // \\ U U U // U U Ben Huot Peasant-Scholar [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
On Sun, Dec 15, 2002 at 09:03:47AM -0800, Dexter Graphic wrote: > Here are the facts: > > Dan does not want to use a graphical user interface (GUI) to > relate to his computer (that means no windows, icons, mice, > or pointers). He has a philosophical/political preference for > free (as in speech) software and would rather not continue > using Windows 95 and its lame Internet Mail program with no > spell checking. With the exception of the spell-checking, this is old hat for me, all of it. I can figure this much out though, relatively simply. > It has been demonstrated at recent EUGLUG meetings that a > text-based mail system is possible with GNU/Linux. Dan > actually has the software on his computer (Debian 3.0). The > problem which remains is figuring out how to configure and > use it. (Dan's computer, by the way, is a desktop Pentium > 133, with 32MB of ram, a Matrox SVGA card, a CD ROM that is > not bootable from the BIOS, and a hard disk that's at least > 2GB in capacity.) Indeed; I use one exclusively. > For some reason Dan is unwilling to spend the necessary time > and effort to read the instructions and figure it out for > himself. For some reason no on else from EUGLUG is willing > to do this for him for free (as in beer). Setting it all up for him is something I am able to do, but it would take me a couple of hours at least to produce something which any idiot could use. I assume he'd be wise to use a menu system of some sort. I can help there as well, though I have not actually used any program that might be useful except for pdmenu, which is likely not what he would want. > So here is my proposal: > > If Dan pays me at a rate of $10 an hour, I will figure it > out and get a text-based mail system working on his system. > That includes setting up PPP, fetchmail, sendmail, procmail, > mutt, emacs, and aspell. Since I know very little about any > of these programs, I figure it will take me at least 25 > hours and possibly as many as 50 to get Dan's mail system > working. This means it would cost Dan $250 to $500 to solve > his problem. I can do the mail setup however he needs it in just a few hours at the same rate. ;) I would offer my time freely, but experience shows me that: 1. If I do what I would normally expect to be paid for freely, then nobody will expect to pay me for it. 2. My cost of living is higher than my income. 3. A small exchange of money for services tends to leave everyone feeling that nothing is owed to anyone. I do not like to owe or feel like I owe anybody personally, and I do not like to feel as if I am owed somethinga. > If anyone else with more expertise than me is willing to do > it for less, then please submit your own proposals. More information is required really. What exactly does he need? More detail means better ability to do what is needed quickly, efficiently, and cheaply. ;) -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Don't feed the sigs I did it just to piss you off. :-P -- Branden Robinson in a message to debian-devel msg12098/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
I havnt seen any dupicates? simular, but not duplicates... Jamie On Sunday 15 December 2002 11:14 pm, Bob Crandell wrote: : The rain is getting to the mail system too. I'm getting lots of duplicate : email. : : Beaker (aka Jeff W) ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote*: : >> : > *Reality Check!* : > : >I'd like to apologize for the harsh tone of my earlier post. I'm sure : >Dan deserves a hand with with breaking the Windows habit as much as : >anybody. What can I say - all this rain is starting to get to me... : > : >-beaker : > : >___ : >Eug-LUG mailing list : >[EMAIL PROTECTED] : >http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- No microsoft products were used to produce this message. EUG-LUG Mailing List: http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
The rain is getting to the mail system too. I'm getting lots of duplicate email. Beaker (aka Jeff W) ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote*: > >> : > *Reality Check!* > >I'd like to apologize for the harsh tone of my earlier post. I'm sure >Dan deserves a hand with with breaking the Windows habit as much as >anybody. What can I say - all this rain is starting to get to me... > >-beaker > >___ >Eug-LUG mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug > -- Bob Crandell Assured Computing When you need to be sure. Voice 541-689-9159 FAX 240-371-7237 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.assuredcomp.com Eugene, Or. 97402 ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
Part of dan's problem is that he's using a very old computer. People with new computers can easily install linux, people with older computers have better luck using older software.Softare that was written around the time that his computer was new would likely be easier, however he would be missing out on a lot of the benefits of newwer software. Actually, Dan's hardware can run a fresh NetBSD/OpenBSD distro no sweat (heck - he could even run X with wm2 fairly well if he wants to). One thing though: why download the messages? I believe Dan has an EFN account, right? He should be able to ssh into EFN and run Pine or Mutt, no? If yes, then all thats left is the PPP configuration. Even if EFN doesn't allow Pine/Mutt on their system, there are other alternatives like freeshell.org which do. -beaker ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
: > *Reality Check!* I'd like to apologize for the harsh tone of my earlier post. I'm sure Dan deserves a hand with with breaking the Windows habit as much as anybody. What can I say - all this rain is starting to get to me... -beaker ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
Part of dan's problem is that he's using a very old computer. People with new computers can easily install linux, people with older computers have better luck using older software.Softare that was written around the time that his computer was new would likely be easier, however he would be missing out on a lot of the benefits of newwer software. Jamie On Sunday 15 December 2002 07:48 pm, Dexter Graphic wrote: : > *Reality Check!* : > Dan sounds like a bundle of contradictions and perhaps _should_ stick : > with Windows. Why should anyone help someone for free if they aren't : > willing to invest at least an equal amount of time themselves. : : Since Dan is no longer subscribed to this list and I know him pretty : well as a friend, I think I can answer this question on his behalf. : : He feels that it's way too complicated for him and that you'd have to : be a computer programmer to figure it out. He sees himself more as a : computer user than a computer tech. He's just like most people in this : respect. They have other things on their minds, like work they want to : do with the computer, but they are not interested in figuring out how : the computer works. It's the same with car troubles; most people just : take their car to an automotive mechanic when things aren't working : right and pay them for their expertise in figuring these things out. : It's actually more efficient than them spending the months of study to : be an even marginally competent mechanic. : : Anyway, by posting my proposal I was hoping to help Dan determine the : minimum amount of money he would have to pay out to get his problem : solved. Plus I was hoping it would give somebody here on the list a : job opportunity, possibly me if no one beats my bid. : : Like any hesitant customer, Dan just needs to be shown the benefits of : spending some money. He's already sold on Debian, isn't that a victory : we can build on? And remember, every satisfied customer will give us : more referrals. : : Dex : : : : : : : : ___ : Eug-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- No microsoft products were used to produce this message. EUG-LUG Mailing List: http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
Part of dan's problem is that he's using a very old computer. People with new computers can easily install linux, people with older computers have better luck using older software.Softare that was written around the time that his computer was new would likely be easier, however he would be missing out on a lot of the benefits of newwer software. Jamie On Sunday 15 December 2002 07:48 pm, Dexter Graphic wrote: : > *Reality Check!* : > Dan sounds like a bundle of contradictions and perhaps _should_ stick : > with Windows. Why should anyone help someone for free if they aren't : > willing to invest at least an equal amount of time themselves. : : Since Dan is no longer subscribed to this list and I know him pretty : well as a friend, I think I can answer this question on his behalf. : : He feels that it's way too complicated for him and that you'd have to : be a computer programmer to figure it out. He sees himself more as a : computer user than a computer tech. He's just like most people in this : respect. They have other things on their minds, like work they want to : do with the computer, but they are not interested in figuring out how : the computer works. It's the same with car troubles; most people just : take their car to an automotive mechanic when things aren't working : right and pay them for their expertise in figuring these things out. : It's actually more efficient than them spending the months of study to : be an even marginally competent mechanic. : : Anyway, by posting my proposal I was hoping to help Dan determine the : minimum amount of money he would have to pay out to get his problem : solved. Plus I was hoping it would give somebody here on the list a : job opportunity, possibly me if no one beats my bid. : : Like any hesitant customer, Dan just needs to be shown the benefits of : spending some money. He's already sold on Debian, isn't that a victory : we can build on? And remember, every satisfied customer will give us : more referrals. : : Dex : : : : : : : : ___ : Eug-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
RE: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system // actual more general.
Ben, thanks for doing this! I thinks I know Dan, and he is a nice guy (maybe twice the age of most of us, in that respect a test case on how well 'we' we are doing in community support, helping folks with a limited budget, and an old PC with limited resources) In more general terms, is there a 'distro', as .tgz, on CD, ... that fits such people's needs --to some extend out of the box? (GUI being a NoNo on a P155) - Horst On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, Dexter Graphic wrote: > Ben > > I will forward your offer to Dan. Maybe he'll let you take the computer > home for a few days while you figure it out. If I can get Dan to pay me > for my trouble, I'll even shuttle it back and forth; he does not have a > car either. > > Dex > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > > Ben Huot > > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 10:34 > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system > > > > > > I'd be willing to do it for free as I am a disabled veteran and cannot > > receive money. I don't know how long it would take me though I am sure I > > could finish it in a few days. I don't have a car though. > > > > > Dexter Graphic -- Always trying to present things clearly. > > > ... since someone started cowArt: (__) (__) (__) (\/) ($$) (**) /---\/ /---\/ /---\/ / | 666 || / |=|| / | || * |||| * |||| * |||| Satanic cow This cow is a Yuppie Cow in love (__) (__) (__) (OO) (@@) (xx) /---\/ /---\/ /---\/ / | || / | || / | || * |||| * |||| * |||| Cow who drank Jolt Cow who ate Cow who used Jolt to wash psychadelic mushrooms down psychadelic mushrooms ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
RE: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
Ben I will forward your offer to Dan. Maybe he'll let you take the computer home for a few days while you figure it out. If I can get Dan to pay me for my trouble, I'll even shuttle it back and forth; he does not have a car either. Dex > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > Ben Huot > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 10:34 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system > > > I'd be willing to do it for free as I am a disabled veteran and cannot > receive money. I don't know how long it would take me though I am sure I > could finish it in a few days. I don't have a car though. > > I have installed Mandrake before and I actually have a BSD system up and > running text only configured for efn. I could probably copy settings > from that. This would be a valuable learning experience for me. > > Dexter Graphic wrote: > > Since this topic keeps coming up as an unresolved issue on > > the list I will address it here explicitly and openly with > > the hope that we will be able to solve it once and for all. > > > > Here are the facts: > > > > Dan does not want to use a graphical user interface (GUI) to > > relate to his computer (that means no windows, icons, mice, > > or pointers). He has a philosophical/political preference for > > free (as in speech) software and would rather not continue > > using Windows 95 and its lame Internet Mail program with no > > spell checking. > > > > It has been demonstrated at recent EUGLUG meetings that a > > text-based mail system is possible with GNU/Linux. Dan > > actually has the software on his computer (Debian 3.0). The > > problem which remains is figuring out how to configure and > > use it. (Dan's computer, by the way, is a desktop Pentium > > 133, with 32MB of ram, a Matrox SVGA card, a CD ROM that is > > not bootable from the BIOS, and a hard disk that's at least > > 2GB in capacity.) > > > > For some reason Dan is unwilling to spend the necessary time > > and effort to read the instructions and figure it out for > > himself. For some reason no on else from EUGLUG is willing > > to do this for him for free (as in beer). > > > > So here is my proposal: > > > > If Dan pays me at a rate of $10 an hour, I will figure it > > out and get a text-based mail system working on his system. > > That includes setting up PPP, fetchmail, sendmail, procmail, > > mutt, emacs, and aspell. Since I know very little about any > > of these programs, I figure it will take me at least 25 > > hours and possibly as many as 50 to get Dan's mail system > > working. This means it would cost Dan $250 to $500 to solve > > his problem. > > > > If anyone else with more expertise than me is willing to do > > it for less, then please submit your own proposals. > > > > Dexter Graphic -- Always trying to present things clearly. > > > > ___ > > Eug-LUG mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug > > > > > -- > > > ^ ^ > (*) (*) > <= \ / => >o o > ? > /// \ > /// % > /// @ > ////// /// > \\ | | | // > \\ U U U // >U U > > Ben Huot > Peasant-Scholar > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ___ > Eug-LUG mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
RE: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
> *Reality Check!* > Dan sounds like a bundle of contradictions and perhaps _should_ stick > with Windows. Why should anyone help someone for free if they aren't > willing to invest at least an equal amount of time themselves. Since Dan is no longer subscribed to this list and I know him pretty well as a friend, I think I can answer this question on his behalf. He feels that it's way too complicated for him and that you'd have to be a computer programmer to figure it out. He sees himself more as a computer user than a computer tech. He's just like most people in this respect. They have other things on their minds, like work they want to do with the computer, but they are not interested in figuring out how the computer works. It's the same with car troubles; most people just take their car to an automotive mechanic when things aren't working right and pay them for their expertise in figuring these things out. It's actually more efficient than them spending the months of study to be an even marginally competent mechanic. Anyway, by posting my proposal I was hoping to help Dan determine the minimum amount of money he would have to pay out to get his problem solved. Plus I was hoping it would give somebody here on the list a job opportunity, possibly me if no one beats my bid. Like any hesitant customer, Dan just needs to be shown the benefits of spending some money. He's already sold on Debian, isn't that a victory we can build on? And remember, every satisfied customer will give us more referrals. Dex ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
I'd be willing to do it for free as I am a disabled veteran and cannot receive money. I don't know how long it would take me though I am sure I could finish it in a few days. I don't have a car though. I have installed Mandrake before and I actually have a BSD system up and running text only configured for efn. I could probably copy settings from that. This would be a valuable learning experience for me. Dexter Graphic wrote: Since this topic keeps coming up as an unresolved issue on the list I will address it here explicitly and openly with the hope that we will be able to solve it once and for all. Here are the facts: Dan does not want to use a graphical user interface (GUI) to relate to his computer (that means no windows, icons, mice, or pointers). He has a philosophical/political preference for free (as in speech) software and would rather not continue using Windows 95 and its lame Internet Mail program with no spell checking. It has been demonstrated at recent EUGLUG meetings that a text-based mail system is possible with GNU/Linux. Dan actually has the software on his computer (Debian 3.0). The problem which remains is figuring out how to configure and use it. (Dan's computer, by the way, is a desktop Pentium 133, with 32MB of ram, a Matrox SVGA card, a CD ROM that is not bootable from the BIOS, and a hard disk that's at least 2GB in capacity.) For some reason Dan is unwilling to spend the necessary time and effort to read the instructions and figure it out for himself. For some reason no on else from EUGLUG is willing to do this for him for free (as in beer). So here is my proposal: If Dan pays me at a rate of $10 an hour, I will figure it out and get a text-based mail system working on his system. That includes setting up PPP, fetchmail, sendmail, procmail, mutt, emacs, and aspell. Since I know very little about any of these programs, I figure it will take me at least 25 hours and possibly as many as 50 to get Dan's mail system working. This means it would cost Dan $250 to $500 to solve his problem. If anyone else with more expertise than me is willing to do it for less, then please submit your own proposals. Dexter Graphic -- Always trying to present things clearly. ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- ^ ^ (*) (*) <= \ / => o o ? /// \ /// % /// @ ////// /// \\ | | | // \\ U U U // U U Ben Huot Peasant-Scholar [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [Eug-lug]Dan's text based computer system
Here are the facts: Dan does not want to use a graphical user interface (GUI) to relate to his computer (that means no windows, icons, mice, or pointers). He has a philosophical/political preference for free (as in speech) software and would rather not continue using Windows 95 and its lame Internet Mail program with no spell checking. Dan actually has the software on his computer (Debian 3.0). For some reason Dan is unwilling to spend the necessary time and effort to read the instructions and figure it out for himself. For some reason no on else from EUGLUG is willing to do this for him for free (as in beer). *Reality Check!* Dan sounds like a bundle of contidictions and perhaps _should_ stick with Windows. Why should anyone help someone for free if they aren't willing to invest at least an equal amount of time themselves. -beaker ___ Eug-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
