Re: Prometheus: The Paradigm Buster

2003-07-02 Thread Michael Turner
for testing purposes. But what do I know. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: LARRY KLAES [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday 02 July 2003 10:17 To: europa Cc: BioAstro Subject: Prometheus: The Paradigm Buster Spaceflight: * Prometheus: The Paradigm Buster

Re: No life detected in Atacama Desert in Chile

2003-08-10 Thread Michael Turner
different? That's not clear at all. It may well be that, for one reason or another, it all comes down to conventional organic chemistry. We just don't know yet. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Christopher England [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August

Re: No life detected in Atacama Desert in Chile

2003-08-10 Thread Michael Turner
to be compared to the fruits of wishful thinking, and can be appreciated for itself, and for the cleverness and intelligence applied in arriving at it. Or even just for its serendipitous revelations -- many scientific discoveries underscore how we're not half as imaginative as we imagine ourselves

Re: No life detected in Atacama Desert in Chile

2003-08-14 Thread Michael Turner
on interstellar communication with pure energy beings who were civilized long before human beings evolved -- if you're successful (and some have been), you'll make a lot more money than Philip Jose Farmer ever did. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Schmidt Mickey

Re: No life detected in Atacama Desert in Chile

2003-08-14 Thread Michael Turner
Michael Turner may have observed that, in an effort to maintain our level of discourse, Level is susceptible to more than one measure. One can politely speculate that we have all dreamed of whales on Europa. And one can scathingly point out that some of us have not, for reasons that should

Arthur C. Clarke Speaks! (out of both sides of his mouth)

2003-08-14 Thread Michael Turner
equally well say Some Mars orbiters pictures confirm completely that Mars has certain surface features that look very persuasively, to some, like a very large, humanoid face. No argument there. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Ingrassia, John R. [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: SPACE: Loss of the Saturn V

2003-09-06 Thread Michael Turner
, it helps to have your feet on the ground. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Joe L. On Fri, 2003-09-05 at 16:55, Robert J. Bradbury wrote: The recent release of the CAIB report has caused both hearings in Congress as well as lots of speculations, 

Re: SPACE: Loss of the Saturn V

2003-09-06 Thread Michael Turner
the hundreds of hours David put in on honing his slingshot skills. Get your facts down stone-cold, *and* your political instincts similarly honed, and life might just offer you a shot at making a real difference. Otherwise, you're just another voter, out of the loop. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: SPACE: Loss of the Saturn V

2003-09-06 Thread Michael Turner
o what governments do, markets do what they can, and technology goes where it's a paying proposition, or where governments steer it. As someone once said, "things are the way they are because they got that way." How they "got that way" has to be studied coldly, what

mass drivers for earth-to-orbit cargo lift (was Re: SPACE: Loss of the Saturn V)

2003-09-06 Thread Michael Turner
transportation faces much more serious challenges, in both technological and market terms. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: mass drivers for earth-to-orbit cargo lift (was Re: SPACE: Loss of the Saturn V)

2003-09-07 Thread Michael Turner
, if there is anything that has cast a longer shadow than the collapse of the telecom bubble (with its high rocket launch rates), it's a day whose second anniversary is almost upon us. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Michael Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent

Re: Fw: SPACE: Loss of the Saturn V

2003-09-07 Thread Michael Turner
einventing it if necessary. These people weren't demigods. The main obstacle at NASA (then as now) was people who *thought* they were demigods. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Gary McMurtry To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; europa Sent: Monday, September

micro-nano-pico engines (was Re: Prometheus propulsion)

2003-09-09 Thread Michael Turner
V). As a friend of mine once said, after relating a particularly tasty factoid, No, wait a minute -- that one can't be true. I've heard it too many times now. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Christopher England [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent

Sep 11 and the WMD threat (was Re: mass drivers for earth-to-orbit cargo lift (was Re: SPACE: Loss of the Satur)

2003-09-09 Thread Michael Turner
to be putting various little test packages in space, like CubeSat, but who can't do it very often because the costs of launch are so high. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: John Sheff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 12:34 AM

Re: Space Elevators (Re: SPACE: Loss of the Saturn V)

2003-09-10 Thread Michael Turner
with the gigabucks that a manned Mars mission would cost. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Buckytube news; and, A Europan Space Elevator?

2003-09-12 Thread Michael Turner
, offering $100/lb launch costs, the issue of sending big payloads to odd corners of the solar system may become relatively negligible. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http

Re: That Japanese Shrine

2003-09-12 Thread Michael Turner
e contrary. State-supported worship lends itself to extravagance and conservatism, not better engineering. As Nevil Shute was fond of saying, "an engineer is someone who can do for shilling what any fool can do for a pound." -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original M

Re: The Guardian skeptical of the Space Elevator

2003-09-14 Thread Michael Turner
people's money, and risk other people's lives. At least the prizefight audience is paying for its own tickets, even if they aren't taking any real risks. We should take care to understand what we're asking of the world. Not doing that only further endangers the whole enterprise. -michael turner

Re: Galileo End of Mission Status

2003-09-23 Thread Michael Turner
ed for each million dollars spent"? No, I would talk about the science itself, the people doing it, their careers, how problems were solved, what was learned. I'm sure there are exciting stories still waiting to be told. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] --

Re: Trillions of planets in the Universe?

2003-09-26 Thread Michael Turner
equation was first being discussed) was a reasonable hypothesis: we're early birds; not many arrivals at the party just yet. I.e., the universe may have huge potential for life, but that potential is only now being realized. Sort of a good news/bad news situation. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: U.S. URGED TO MOVE SPACE PROGRAMME TOWARDS EXPLOITATION OF ASTEROIDS

2003-10-01 Thread Michael Turner
offrey Baehr at USVP,also a 13-year veteran of Sun Microsystems. USVP -- I think they wisely *didn't* invest in a Silicon Valley startup I joined over 15 years ago. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: LARRY KLAES To: europa Cc: BioAstro Sent: W

Re: Beam Us Up, General Clark

2003-10-05 Thread Michael Turner
ee a smart pol step up to that plate in full public view, even with 15 astronauts and 12 Nobelists clustered around the podium. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: LARRY KLAES To: setipublic Cc: BioAstro ; europa Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003

Re: Questions about tidal heating

2003-11-05 Thread Michael Turner
of molecules hitting each other. Heating doesn't require a hotter source making something else warmer. If you hit a piece of metalwith a hammer, it gets warmer, even if the hammer head is much colder than what it's striking. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From

Re: Nanotube cable will connect Earth and Luna

2003-11-19 Thread Michael Turner
the growth of it has touched down on the surface of the Moon, is in anchoring it strongly enough to the Moon. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Mark Schnitzius [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 11:23 AM Subject: RE: Nanotube cable

Re: Nanotube cable will connect Earth and Luna

2003-11-19 Thread Michael Turner
very tired. He pulls something out of his pocket. Want to hold a moon rock? he asks. I've also got a chunk of a captured asteroid And you act bored. Because that's SO two years ago. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL

Re: Nanotube cable will connect Earth and Luna

2003-11-19 Thread Michael Turner
ed directions. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Joe L. On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 21:53, Michael Turner wrote: My take on this: the right kind of space elevator need not compete for orbital space with an Earth-Moon tether. A space elevator moving in the equa

Re: Nanotube cable will connect Earth and Luna

2003-11-20 Thread Michael Turner
he sharper aerospace engineers of my acquaintance told me once that when he sees the Shuttle on the launch pad, he's looking at the gantry, not the ship. That's the mentality required, I think. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From:

Re: Nanotube cable will connect Earth and Luna

2003-11-22 Thread Michael Turner
wonder if anyone knows what's going to happen at the biotech/nanotech interface even 3 years out, at this rate. For all we know, space elevator reasoning may seem crudely extrapolative in 10 years, with either much better approaches discovered, or all hopes dashed. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: NASA wants to spend $300 million dollars to trash Hubble!

2003-11-27 Thread Michael Turner
orbital junk and reuse it for parts and materials. And a cheaply launchable tug might be the best investment in that direction. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: LARRY KLAES To: setipublic Cc: BioAstro ; europa Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003

Re: NASA wants to spend $300 million dollars to trash Hubble!

2003-11-27 Thread Michael Turner
us are any worse off for understanding how they make their choices. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: LARRY KLAES To: setipublic Cc: BioAstro ; europa Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 2:41 AM Subject: NASA wants to spend $300 million dol

Re: Fw: Slate Article: Is Mars Ours?

2004-01-09 Thread Michael Turner
mething, or at least not lose as much as they'd otherwise lose. And the bigger winners might be able to pay their own way to Mars, confident that it's truly an earned privilege. And if it doesn't work out? It would at least set useful precedents and foster productive negotiating rel

3He fusion for Europa exploration (Re: Fw: Slate Article: Is Mars Ours?)

2004-01-10 Thread Michael Turner
many atomic nuclei can dance on the head of a pin, but we probably have to see those nuclei dance, someday, one way or another. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Gary McMurtry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 5:15 PM Subject

Re: 3He fusion for Europa exploration (Re: Fw: Slate Article: Is Mars Ours?)

2004-01-10 Thread Michael Turner
a stone although I guess people are getting better at nanometric manipulation every day. By the way, who is this we, Gary? Are *you* actually working on relevant instrumentation? ;-) -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a pathetically desperate attempt at Icepick topic relevance, it's worth

Re: Fw: Slate Article: Is Mars Ours?

2004-01-12 Thread Michael Turner
2) As Michael has already explained, it will take a lot of effort to terraform a planet. Caca. Almost all of the people involved in in the Mars debate do *not* understand nanotechnology. I never said it would take a lot of effort. I DID imply that it wouldn't be happening any time

Re: Fw: Slate Article: Is Mars Ours?

2004-01-13 Thread Michael Turner
Patrick Hall writes: The idea of substituting a virtual presence for actually visiting a physical location worked all right in 1960s science fiction, and satisfies the average teenager trying to avoid using their college computer for serious study, but cannot be regarded as 'the real thing'.

Re: Fw: Slate Article: Is Mars Ours?

2004-01-13 Thread Michael Turner
is a scenario that nobody, to my knowledge, predicted back in the 50s and 60s. I can't remember ever seeing it in science fiction, which I used to read a lot of. To my mind, that's almost an argument in favor of it. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Michael Turner

Re: Fw: NASA scraps shuttle mission to service Hubble Space Telescope

2004-01-17 Thread Michael Turner
s to yield his seat to honeymooning couples one of these days, or space will remain forever beyond the reach of all but governments of big countries. In the meantime, space science just has to get better at taking its case to the voting public. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Origin

Re: ADMIN: proper care and feeding of this list

2004-01-19 Thread Michael Turner
, and is therefore a decrease in all but name. Desperately Seeking Relevance, -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Jeff Foust [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 10:07 AM Subject: ADMIN: proper care and feeding of this list Hello

Re: [IP] more on Hubble Space Telescope Servicing Mission 4 and future cancelled

2004-01-21 Thread Michael Turner
get stuff done in low earth orbit. Not everything has to be fast. If it takes six months or a year of ion propulsion to move flywheels from orbit to orbit, but it can be done very cheaply, many possibilities might open up. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message -

Re: Rovers on Europa - An Asset to the Icepick Mission?

2004-02-14 Thread Michael Turner
understanding of the ice developed through more indirect means, and not for global surveying. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "LARRY KLAES" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 15, 20

Europa black-ice snowcones, continued; and Sol-local panspermia?

2004-02-14 Thread Michael Turner
snowones survive didn't evolve under selective pressure over multiple planetary exchanges, but simply already had the appropriate traits for unrelated, epiphenomenal reasons. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] == You are subscribed to the Europa

Search for Europan Black-Ice Snowcones - getting started.

2004-02-15 Thread Michael Turner
. Well, there's my case. Pick it apart, folks. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: Reviving nuclear power in space for reaching Jupiter and beyond

2004-03-09 Thread Michael Turner
I loved this headline. "But," I thought, "my space heater in my room mostly does use nuclear power, since Japan has so many nuke plants. So what are they doing special up at Marshall." *(boink)* -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message -

Re: Report: large KBO discovered

2004-03-16 Thread Michael Turner
I think this discovery has the potential to ignite investigations that rewrite the textbooks on the early solar system, in particular the capture hypothesis for moons. Capture has been considered unlikely because of the supposed rarity of close encounters, because of the relatively small size of

Re: Standing Body of Water Left Its Mark in Mars Rocks

2004-03-23 Thread Michael Turner
n the same environment, each from a different time, but with CO2 the main contributor to the larger-scale phenomena? (By the way, that's not a rhetorical question, because I'm not a planetary scientist. ;-) -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: LARRY KLAES To:

Re: Standing Body of Water Left Its Mark in Mars Rocks

2004-03-25 Thread Michael Turner
. For one thing, the peer-review processes for such findings are byzantine, and reportedly feature a brutal gauntlet for the non-specialist. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Eugen Leitl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:50

Re: Standing Body of Water Left Its Mark in Mars Rocks

2004-03-27 Thread Michael Turner
the case is closed yet. Unless I've missed something. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: Standing Body of Water Left Its Mark in Mars Rocks

2004-03-27 Thread Michael Turner
On Sat, Mar 27, 2004 at 08:24:37PM +0900, Michael Turner wrote: So I'm still holding out for a possible CO2 sea/ocean/lake as an explanation for features that we, on our water planet, associate only with bodies of water. That doesn't mean that there haven't *also* been bodies of water

Re: Standing Body of Water Left Its Mark in Mars Rocks

2004-03-27 Thread Michael Turner
that they were. If there's a chance to nail this, now or soon, it should be taken. I know I'll accept the verdict either way, so long as the trial is conducted fairly. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information

Relevance for Europa (was Re: Standing Body of Water Left Its Mark in Mars Rocks)

2004-03-27 Thread Michael Turner
priorities straight. Mars exploration should continue, don't get me wrong. But if the overarching question is whether there is another planet with life in the solar system, Europa still seems to me to be what Donald Rumsfeld might call a target-rich zone. ;-) -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] == You

Re: Standing Body of Water Left Its Mark in Mars Rocks

2004-03-28 Thread Michael Turner
the foot - precisely what he wants you to do. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Gary McMurtry To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: Standing Body of Water Left Its Mark in Mars Rocks Michael, OK, s

Re: This won't help with the support of JIMO

2004-03-29 Thread Michael Turner
fusion finally starts to pan out, it could help solve all ofthese advanced outer-planet probe power problemsquite nicely, in the long run. (I hope I'm not overinterpreting a recent decision to reviewproposals for continued work - it's not like I *really* know anything, right? ;-) -michael turner

Re: This won't help with the support of JIMO

2004-03-30 Thread Michael Turner
space up a bit (albeit negligibly.) Is there such magic material? -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- LARRY KLAES [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And you know the anti-nuke forces will not bother to differentiate between some old Soviet satellites and the new JIMO. Science/Astronomy

Re: Constellation and Prometheus - Uncomfortable Bedfellows

2004-03-30 Thread Michael Turner
-based scenarios prove out for putting the reactor unfueled into a safe place, far out there, and getting plutonium to it safely, and separately. Or it could be that they are both in the same laundry disposal chute, ready to drop when the body politic lets go. Wish I knew. -michael turner [EMAIL

Re: This won't help with the support of JIMO

2004-03-30 Thread Michael Turner
, it seems to be the quickest way past this issue. Trying to get past it by mining the asteroids is a can't-get-there-from-here proposition - actually assuming you can already do what you're trying to do in the first place. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From

Re: European Conference on Hugens the Man and the Titan Probe

2004-03-30 Thread Michael Turner
ted while on his deathbed, for GH Hardy?) -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: LARRY KLAES To: europa Cc: BioAstro Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:36 AM Subject: European Conference on Hugens the Man and the Titan Probe Also See -

Re: The gun thing again [Off Topic]

2004-04-08 Thread Michael Turner
, spores, and microbiology that ecosystems depend on, with little trouble. Ditto for food ingredients. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: The gun thing again

2004-04-09 Thread Michael Turner
(circular) orbital velocity is about 3440 mph, eastward, so there is a little delta V (about 1400 mph) to make up. Some portion of this would come from the vectored rocket firing in the Hohmann transfer maneuver. Jack -Original Message- From: Michael Turner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: The gun thing again [Off Topic]

2004-04-16 Thread Michael Turner
, autonomous payloads of not only high electronic complexity but high electromechanical complexity can be launched from guns. The significance for cheaper space probe missions can hardly be lost on readers here. Regards, Michael Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] P.S. If you're interested in my book

The tether thing (for the first time?) (was Re: The gun thing again [Off Topic])

2004-04-17 Thread Michael Turner
problem with this approach: the tether, having released the penetrator probe, will go flying wildly off somewhere. If, however, a counterweight incorporates an ion drive powered by flying through Jupiter's magnetic field, maybe it could retrieve itself and be reused somehow. -michael turner

Re: Images of Europan Life

2004-06-01 Thread Michael Turner
enough to start simulating possible origins and evolution of life on Europa. That effort might produce some very interesting images indeed. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- LARRY KLAES [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMAGE DESCRIPTION: In the future, life will be discovered on Jupiter's

Jovian ISRU (was Re: Images of Europan Life)

2004-06-01 Thread Michael Turner
itself to studying and eventual exploiting comets, asteroids and polar regions on Mars, maybe even the Moon if they find surface ice there? -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] I can buy parallel evolution producing similar shapes of creatures. But the plants being green strikes me

Re: Images of Europan Life

2004-06-01 Thread Michael Turner
not post this question to the bioastro list? -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: LARRY KLAES To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 7:58 PM Subject: Re: Images of Europan Life Why wait 30 years? Couldn't we do some computer

Re: A few more Europan-style images to inspire and inquire upon

2004-06-01 Thread Michael Turner
incidence - a shield against radiation reaching the surface - some way to precipitate lighter gases (maybe including water vapor) back to the surface so they don't top out at escape velocity. Beats me, I'm no scientist. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From

Re: SETI bioastro: SETI call to arms, international debate

2004-06-07 Thread Michael Turner
ying Ahmad Chalabi has been spying for the Iranians all this time! You gotta take this call ..." You slump forward in defeat. You dismiss your space advisor. You take the call. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: LARRY KLAES To: europa

Re: I wonder if we see anything similar on Europa?

2004-06-09 Thread Michael Turner
ace to get light from the sun, it's close enough to get a very serious dose from Jupiter itself. It seems these colonies don't require a mineral particle, by the way - they've been observed on glaciers where most of the light absorption is from microbial waste products. -michael turner [EMAIL

Re: Fw: Cassini Provides New Views of Titan, Saturn's Largest Moon

2004-07-04 Thread Michael Turner
- that would be interesting, and maybe they could improvise some measurements. Is snow possible there, from what we know? -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- LARRY KLAES [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratorymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: Fw: Cassini Provides New Views of Titan, Saturn's Largest Moon

2004-07-04 Thread Michael Turner
On the contrary - it appears that the probe was specifically designed for a splashdown, with landing on a solid surface considered less likely when it was designed. With no body of liquid to both buffer its impact and provide the ideal environment for its Surface Science Package, we

Re: I wonder if they could be modified for digging through Europan ice?

2004-07-10 Thread Michael Turner
wanting their taxes spent on projects that will bear fruit (if at all) after they are dead. "There you go, sports fans, the emotional outpouring of a scientist with a few stakes in this astrobiology game." Don't worry, we won't rat on you to NSF. ;-) -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: I wonder if they could be modified for digging through Europan ice?

2004-07-11 Thread Michael Turner
in this astrobiology game. Don't worry, we won't rat on you to NSF. ;-) -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com

Re: [DarlingsSpace] David Darling's Newsletter #22

2004-07-15 Thread Michael Turner
rchers say its spectral signature has been TENTATIVELY detected by sensors onboard the European Space Agency's orbiting Mars Express craft." Emphasis mine. The article also speaks of 'nagging complexities' with analyzing the PFS data. We'll know more next week, when the results go to confe

Re: Carl Sagan, we need your help

2004-07-27 Thread Michael Turner
://www.idiom.com/~turner/thenextdoctorstarstuff.html Not sure where I'll take this - maybe nowhere. Comments appreciated. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Carl Sagan, we need your help

2004-07-28 Thread Michael Turner
ip - ideally, NON-partisan spokemanship (if that isn't too much to ask). Europa doesn't have that as far as I can tell.-michael - Original Message - From: Michael Turner To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 7:49 AM Subject: Re: Carl

Re: Carl Sagan, we need your help

2004-08-06 Thread Michael Turner
Seconding (I hope) what Mark says below: Something people may be missing: all great humor has some admixture of self-deprecating wit - usually involving posing as a half-wit. (Twain's Quitting smoking is easy - why, I've done it hundreds of times is my favorite example.) I don't know about all

Re: Cyanobacteria found in a meteorite?

2004-08-09 Thread Michael Turner
than heat diffusion. And that can happen: hold an ice cube half-immersed in hot water and soon you'll be holding half an ice cube - a half which will still be freezing cold even if the water below itis near boiling. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Ree

Re: Read towards the end of this article on JIMO

2004-08-19 Thread Michael Turner
to do these otherprojects X and Y, etc." - all depend on whether the X/Y projects are a fait accompli. They are not, as far as I can tell. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: LARRY KLAES To: europa Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 7:36 AM Subject: Read towar

Re: A response to Rose and White's paper

2004-09-03 Thread Michael Turner
Larry writes: "Over his example of a milion years' travel time to cover a 1000 l.y. distance, the proper motions of both originating and target stars will have a large influence. This creates problems of propulsion and guidance (including mid-course corrections), and the service life of the

Re: Rose's Web site

2004-09-03 Thread Michael Turner
we can currently conceive. After all, if they are out there, the Drake Equation predicts they've been out there as an advanced technological civilization for much, much longer than we have. We can't even imagine what sort of contact they would find interesting. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: Rose's Web site

2004-09-03 Thread Michael Turner
, and they may still be on a level of intelligence where they'd find us interesting. At the moment I don't see this one as very likely. I'm sure there are a few more, but they probably related to scenarios in which contact is technologically possible, but Singularity, for some reason, is not. -michael

ET bits in junk DNA (was Re: A response to Rose and White's paper)

2004-09-03 Thread Michael Turner
that 12 hours. Less than a million years, anyway. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: Rose's Web site

2004-09-04 Thread Michael Turner
. That's an interesting design problem, but a virtually immortal species might have plenty of time to work out the bugs. Whether or not we turn on the machine might be left to us to decide. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Reeve, Jack W. [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: Rose's Web site

2004-09-05 Thread Michael Turner
that I'm going to have to think about how to respond to...] Well, think hard. ;-) -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/ == You are subscribed

Re: Rose's Web site

2004-09-05 Thread Michael Turner
, in this context, 'havingenough atmospheric stability, for long enough,to support life as we know it.') -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: James McEnanly To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 5:46 AM Subject: Re: Rose's Web

Europoids as Inscribed Matter Mailboxes (was Re: Alien microbes could survive crash-landing)

2004-09-05 Thread Michael Turner
the Bible Belt in America, the possible theological flak screens I've outlined above might even help out, politically. You could say, "We've got your damage control arguments all ready in advance - not to worry!" Who knows? -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Me

Re: ET bits in junk DNA (was Re: A response to Rose and White's paper)

2004-09-06 Thread Michael Turner
le 'junk' DNA amounts to. I wish I did know. The only explanation I can think of is a hazy memory of a paper by a guy writing about energy and computation, in which he said that we should keep in mind that erasing bits costs energy too. Collecting garbage isn't easy either. It may be that e

Re: Latest News from the Astrobiology Magazine

2004-09-07 Thread Michael Turner
antastic planet and its adventure brought to you by the True Human Spirit, about which Those Scientists know Nothing." I think that's a tall order. A tough job. But somebody's gotta do it. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: LARRY KLAES To: seti

Re: the latest splat

2004-09-09 Thread Michael Turner
atmosphere. I think the Russians lost a couple cosmonauts to chute system failure. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Joe Latrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 6:51 AM Subject: Re: Latest News from the Astrobiology

Re: the latest splat

2004-09-09 Thread Michael Turner
. The Stardust material is an almost lighter-than-air foam. I forget the name, but I got to hold a piece when my 10-year-old daughter and I went to JPL's open house this summer.) Aerogel? -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: the latest splat

2004-09-10 Thread Michael Turner
certainly be worthy of a scene from a James Bond movie if it worked.) OK, I'll go back to playing with matches now. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]From: "Michael Turner" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: [EMAIL PROT

Re: the latest splat

2004-09-10 Thread Michael Turner
for Robert Zubrin, but I guesshe's not exactly alone in that. The main thing I got from his op-ed is that sample return really is an important capability - we should be trying to get it down to, well, to a *science*. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: The Andromeda Strain (was Re: the latest splat)

2004-09-10 Thread Michael Turner
, make sure that's what he believes, first. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: The Genesis Crash and The Andromeda Strain

2004-09-12 Thread Michael Turner
All I know is: I like Bell's writing, and if he's technically off-base, it's been over my head so far - unlike a number of other commentators who have appeared on SpaceDaily.com. (Someday I should publish a list of my own mistakes.) -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message -

Re: Latest News from the Astrobiology Magazine

2004-09-12 Thread Michael Turner
ological as the first 50 pages, and as off-base technologically as the first 50 pages, there's a small book's worth to be written about how Dan Brown gets it wrong. And what would be the point? -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: LARRY KLAES To: setipublic

Re: How far can radio signals penetrate through ice?

2004-10-12 Thread Michael Turner
ong enough to withstand the crushing pressures, as the bore closed up behind the probe melting its way through the ice? Underwater acoustic communications with a transceiver attached to that fiber on the underside of the ice might keep the probe in contact with the surface. -michael turner [EMAIL

Re: How far can radio signals penetrate through ice?

2004-10-12 Thread Michael Turner
ustic communications with a transceiver attached to that fiber on the underside of the ice might keep the probe in contact with the surface. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Paul Lavin To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: How far can radio signals penetrate through ice?

2004-10-09 Thread Michael Turner
If radar worked through ice, it would probably work through water. Submarines echolocate by sonar, rather than radar. That should tell you something. (This, by the way, may be a flaw in Deception Point. I'd been assuming that the meteorite buried deep in Arctic ice in that novel was

Re: Thomas Gold on alien life deep under the surface

2004-10-26 Thread Michael Turner
nds of thoughts that we associated more with post-Enlightenment science. I score Gold maybe 1.9 out of 7. A good scientist sticks as close to zero as possible, though I like Jeff Bell's idea that every accomplished scientist is entitled to one pet wacko theory. -michael turner [EMAIL P

Re: Thomas Gold on alien life deep under the surface

2004-10-26 Thread Michael Turner
explanations. The state of physics in Einstein's early years favored revolutionary conservatism, because there was no other way forward. And Einstein didn't want to be a patent clerk the rest of his life - he wanted to move forward, and in the right way. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] == You

Re: Thomas Gold on alien life deep under the surface

2004-10-26 Thread Michael Turner
old him up as a model for budding scientists, because if all scientists (including the mostly-less-brilliant) were to do this all the time, science would be in considerable disarray, would be considerably less productive, and would finally be even more underfunded than it is. -michael tur

Re: Thomas Gold on alien life deep under the surface

2004-10-26 Thread Michael Turner
. We do ourselves no favor by promoting it ourselves. Only promoting real scientific literacy can help. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: LARRY KLAES To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 3:14 AM Subject: Re: Thomas Gold

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