Re: OK, OK, OK, Enough!
-Original Message- From: Gail Roberta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 2:40 PM Subject: Re: OK, OK, OK, Enough! Naturally I can't give away too much in the hopes that my first story will be published, but try this: Suppose there was another planet in another star system that needed...water. (Frank Herbert's Dune?) Europa has water under its ice mantle. Wouldn't "mining," refining, storing, and transporting water present some interesting challenges? What would be the possibilities of the typical human motivation for commerce and profit? What if the inhabitants of this other system also had a mercenary streak? And what about the human elements? Living on Europa's ice mantle? What would that be like? How would they measure time? How would the human circadian rhythms be affected by a different planetary cycle? What is the gravity on Europa? Europa always has the same face turned toward Jupiter, just like Earth's moon. What's on the other side? The Galileo pics are helpful, but don't tell the whole story, methinks. OK, that's for starters. Am I dreaming, or what? To answer a few more of your questions: (1) It's more likely that they would live buried UNDER a few meters of Europa's ice than on top of it, as a shield against that very dangerous Jovian radiation level. By the way, everyone, I've just learned -- from a passage in the NAS report "Preventing the Forward Contamination of Europa" which I had overlooked -- that the radiation level on Europa's leading side is only 1/5 that of its trailing side (which is hit by the particle radiation swept around Jupiter by its rotating magnetic field at a rate faster than Europa revolves around Jupiter). But that's still a deadly radiation level for humans. (2) I doubt there would be any variation in the circadian rhythm -- Europa revolves around Jupiter every 5 days and thus has a 5-day diurnal cycle, so the colony would certainly have its internal lighting adjusted to the colonists's normal 24-hour sleep cycle (just as on the Moon, and indeed most worlds). (3) Europa's gravity is about 1/7 of Earth's -- slightly less than the Moon's. (4) Europa's Jupiter-facing and anti-Jupiter sides are generally pretty similar, although with somewhat diffrent patterns of crustal "linea" (the dark "cracks") and mottled and chaotic terrain, presumably due to the different tidal stresses. == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: OK, OK, OK, Enough!
Thank you, Bruce! I'm new to this list, too and was beginning to wonder if it would be useful for the information I was looking for. Regarding the nutrient balance in the top few meters of ice--do you have a URL or a journal reference with information on that? I'd love to do some more in-depth reading on it. Best! Deanna The trouble is that this group has already long since chewed all that over extremely thoroughly, throughout 1999 and 2000 (apparently before you got here) -- and we're simply running out of specifically Europa-related stuff to discuss. (Hopefully there will soon be some more of it, as I recently noted.) That's precisely why many of us have moved over to Jason Perry's "ISSDG" and "Jupiter List" chat groups, which deal with Solar System exploration in general. Regarding your questions: Europa's crust is solid ice and anywhere from several to several dozen km thick -- so we certainly don't need to worry about floating on the surface or drifting on ice floes. It has an extremely faint trace of atmosphere -- only a few hundred-millionths as dense as Earth's -- and we have a good idea of most of the gases making it up. The core may or may not be hot enough to provide any volcanic vents at all on the floor of the subsurface ocean, but most of that floor is certainly near 0 deg C, just like most of Earth's ocean floor. (Europa's tidal heating from Jupiter is only about 1/10 of Io's.) This still leaves a tremendous number of interesting questions about the place, of course -- with one of the most lively recent subjects being an increased feeling among scientists that Jupiter's radiation may produce a disproportionate concentration of nutrients and other biologically useful chemicals in the TOP few meters of Europa's ice, and that these may both be slowly transported down into the underground ocean, or nourish microbes in local pockets of near-surface water within the ice. (This, in turn, would mean that a productive search for Europan life may not have to dig nearly as far down into the ice as the originaly Cryobot would have -- but then, there was some feeling along those lines anyway, since it's always seemed likely that long-dead but extremely well-preserved Europan microbes may be preserved in the ice even near its top.) Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/ == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: OK, OK, OK, Enough!
I'm curious - what is being mined on Europa in your SF story? Larry At 10:16 AM 02/20/2001 -0800, Gail Roberta wrote: Well, I guess that's the price of getting to the show after the curtain goes up. Sorry if I sounded like such a dunce, but I really did just get caught up in what's really being done. I am trying to start a sci fi story series based on the moons of Jupiter, and the idea of mining Europa for whatever is there intrigued me. To gain some semblance of credibility, I started searching the web for info, and found this site, plus the NASA site and several others. Got lots of interesting info, and hope to get more. These discussions show me how much I have to learn--as someone said long ago: "The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know." Please be patient with my ignorance--that can be cured! :-) - Original Message - From: Bruce Moomaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Icepick Europa Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 11:58 PM Subject: Re: OK, OK, OK, Enough! -Original Message- From: Gail Roberta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, February 19, 2001 8:49 PM Subject: OK, OK, OK, Enough! Haven't we milked this one dry already? What does all this have to do with the possible exploration of one of Jupiter's moons anyhow? So Fox came up with a stupid, but apparently entertaining show that no one in their right minds would believe? Isn't sci-fi by it's very nature the same thing? OK, forget I said that. I love sci-fi, I love to watch reruns of Star Trek in all its permutations, even Babylon 5 is entertaining. But science? Naw, and I don't even pretend it is. So let's get back to discussing Europa. When we land there, will we need flotation devices to float on the possibly slushy ice? If we land on an ice island and want to drill through, will the island drift so much that we'll lose our probes? Is there an atmosphere? How hot is the core? Lots more interesting stuff to speculate about than some crap served up on TV, don't you think? The trouble is that this group has already long since chewed all that over extremely thoroughly, throughout 1999 and 2000 (apparently before you got here) -- and we're simply running out of specifically Europa-related stuff to discuss. (Hopefully there will soon be some more of it, as I recently noted.) That's precisely why many of us have moved over to Jason Perry's "ISSDG" and "Jupiter List" chat groups, which deal with Solar System exploration in general. Regarding your questions: Europa's crust is solid ice and anywhere from several to several dozen km thick -- so we certainly don't need to worry about floating on the surface or drifting on ice floes. It has an extremely faint trace of atmosphere -- only a few hundred-millionths as dense as Earth's -- and we have a good idea of most of the gases making it up. The core may or may not be hot enough to provide any volcanic vents at all on the floor of the subsurface ocean, but most of that floor is certainly near 0 deg C, just like most of Earth's ocean floor. (Europa's tidal heating from Jupiter is only about 1/10 of Io's.) This still leaves a tremendous number of interesting questions about the place, of course -- with one of the most lively recent subjects being an increased feeling among scientists that Jupiter's radiation may produce a disproportionate concentration of nutrients and other biologically useful chemicals in the TOP few meters of Europa's ice, and that these may both be slowly transported down into the underground ocean, or nourish microbes in local pockets of near-surface water within the ice. (This, in turn, would mean that a productive search for Europan life may not have to dig nearly as far down into the ice as the originaly Cryobot would have -- but then, there was some feeling along those lines anyway, since it's always seemed likely that long-dead but extremely well-preserved Europan microbes may be preserved in the ice even near its top.) Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/ == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/ == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: OK, OK, OK, Enough!
Naturally I can't give away too much in the hopes that my first story will be published, but try this: Suppose there was another planet in another star system that needed...water. (Frank Herbert's Dune?) Europa has water under its ice mantle. Wouldn't "mining," refining, storing, and transporting water present some interesting challenges? What would be the possibilities of the typical human motivation for commerce and profit? What if the inhabitants of this other system also had a mercenary streak? And what about the human elements? Living on Europa's ice mantle? What would that be like? How would they measure time? How would the human circadian rhythms be affected by a different planetary cycle? What is the gravity on Europa? Europa always has the same face turned toward Jupiter, just like Earth's moon. What's on the other side? The Galileo pics are helpful, but don't tell the whole story, methinks. OK, that's for starters. Am I dreaming, or what? :-) - Original Message - From: Larry Klaes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:39 AM Subject: Re: OK, OK, OK, Enough! I'm curious - what is being mined on Europa in your SF story? Larry At 10:16 AM 02/20/2001 -0800, Gail Roberta wrote: Well, I guess that's the price of getting to the show after the curtain goes up. Sorry if I sounded like such a dunce, but I really did just get caught up in what's really being done. I am trying to start a sci fi story series based on the moons of Jupiter, and the idea of mining Europa for whatever is there intrigued me. To gain some semblance of credibility, I started searching the web for info, and found this site, plus the NASA site and several others. Got lots of interesting info, and hope to get more. These discussions show me how much I have to learn--as someone said long ago: "The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know." Please be patient with my ignorance--that can be cured! :-) - Original Message - From: Bruce Moomaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Icepick Europa Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 11:58 PM Subject: Re: OK, OK, OK, Enough! -Original Message- From: Gail Roberta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, February 19, 2001 8:49 PM Subject: OK, OK, OK, Enough! Haven't we milked this one dry already? What does all this have to do with the possible exploration of one of Jupiter's moons anyhow? So Fox came up with a stupid, but apparently entertaining show that no one in their right minds would believe? Isn't sci-fi by it's very nature the same thing? OK, forget I said that. I love sci-fi, I love to watch reruns of Star Trek in all its permutations, even Babylon 5 is entertaining. But science? Naw, and I don't even pretend it is. So let's get back to discussing Europa. When we land there, will we need flotation devices to float on the possibly slushy ice? If we land on an ice island and want to drill through, will the island drift so much that we'll lose our probes? Is there an atmosphere? How hot is the core? Lots more interesting stuff to speculate about than some crap served up on TV, don't you think? The trouble is that this group has already long since chewed all that over extremely thoroughly, throughout 1999 and 2000 (apparently before you got here) -- and we're simply running out of specifically Europa-related stuff to discuss. (Hopefully there will soon be some more of it, as I recently noted.) That's precisely why many of us have moved over to Jason Perry's "ISSDG" and "Jupiter List" chat groups, which deal with Solar System exploration in general. Regarding your questions: Europa's crust is solid ice and anywhere from several to several dozen km thick -- so we certainly don't need to worry about floating on the surface or drifting on ice floes. It has an extremely faint trace of atmosphere -- only a few hundred-millionths as dense as Earth's -- and we have a good idea of most of the gases making it up. The core may or may not be hot enough to provide any volcanic vents at all on the floor of the subsurface ocean, but most of that floor is certainly near 0 deg C, just like most of Earth's ocean floor. (Europa's tidal heating from Jupiter is only about 1/10 of Io's.) This still leaves a tremendous number of interesting questions about the place, of course -- with one of the most lively recent subjects being an increased feeling among scientists that Jupiter's radiation may produce a disproportionate concentration of nutrients and other biologically useful chemicals in the TOP few meters of Europa's ice, and that these may both be slowly transported down into the underground ocean, or nourish microbes in local pockets of near-surface water within the ice. (This, in turn, would mea
