EV Digest 2430
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Free Tech paper "Do It Right the First Time"
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) frying AC connections
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Toasted T-125 battery
by jon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: frying AC connections
by Sharkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Odd digest format
by Phil Bardsley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) unsubscribe
by "ngcheekoon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Raptor600 connection info
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Raptor600 connection info
by "Ralph Merwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) DCP/Tachometer idea
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Charging at low current overnight
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Useful link
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Czonka 3 contactors not safe?
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) EVs on Ebay
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Czonka 3 contactors not safe?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Motor adapters
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: EV Grin! Electric Lemon's First Juice.
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: 1984 VW brake light problem
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Sacramento trip charging data
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Motor adapters
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Batteries for go-kart
by "Dean Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Charging at low current overnight
by Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Batteries for go-kart
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Charging at low current overnight
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Charging at low current overnight
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: DCP/Tachometer idea
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) MK II regulator troubleshooting needed
by "Mark Dodrill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Charging at low current overnight
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Charging at low current overnight
by Brendan Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
This paper details the 4 major steps from deciding to build an EV to
installation and testing. It was presented with Seth Murray, a high school
student now at WPI, at NESEA's Energy in Schools Conference on November
14-15, 2002. Seth converted an S10 and entered the ATdS winning a number of
awards. The email paper has links to Seth's pictures showing S10
construction, the ATdS race, and a major accident.
A free copy of "Do It Right the First Time" is available from
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Vehicles of America, Inc. (EVA) is the leader in EV Safety with the
use of Anderson SBX connectors, the First Inertia switch, dual contactors,
and more. A paper describing safety is available also free. Its title is
"Safety First".
Just email your request to -------- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please do not send your request to the EV Digest.
We send our catalog with all technical paper requests.
"Anyone can build an EV - but building great EVs
requires experience and engineering."
Bob Batson P.E.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Free Offers at Home Page
www.EV-America.com
Electric Vehicles of America, Inc. (EVA)
Tel# 603-569-2100
Fax# 603-569-2900
11 Eagle Trace
P.O Box 2037
Wolfeboro, NH 03894
***********************************
Authorized Distributor for Advanced DC Motors,
Curtis; DC Power System Controllers,
Albright Contactors, and other EV component manufacturers.
Free catalog. Largest EV Component supplier in the East
Electric cars, trucks, motorcycles, boats, ski-dos, and more.
*******************************************
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been using 125v 30 amp connectors with #10 wire for years. It always
runs hot. I just turned a white plastic insulator brown and the pin was
almost welded together. I noticed that the B & W puts out 20 amps at first
but quickly goes down to 15 amps. Last night I watched and turned it up 3
times untill it stayed around 20 amps. When I turn it on to night I am sure
it will register more than 20. Is this what fried it. I am thinking of
using a 125 50 with #8 wire. Is this over kill with a B&W. I have always
had trouble with the B&W running hot at 20amp draw. I'm tired of frying
connections. I have to stay at 125v with the B & W. Lawrence Rhodes...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am using the bolt post connectors (not the automotive type). I went with
that route since the local Trojan purveyor only carried that style (and
they gave me a great deal!).
So, I am now using washers and deoxit. All runs nice and cool, and I am
checking regularly. I'm going to post a picture of the toasted
(melted) battery soon.
Question: What do people use to coat batter connections so they don't get
"yucky"?
Jon
> Steve Clunn wrote
> sounds like you are not using the automotive type connectors (the ones that
> go around the post and squeeze it ) . I have been getting some nice
> connectors from the bat store here where the connector is soldered into a 00
> cable all for around $9 . Have not had any problems with them . If your bat
> has bolts sticking up from the post and you are using the bolts to connect
> to this is your weak spot . you may be able to have a new stud put on that
> bat .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 10:00 AM
> Subject: Re: Toasted T-125 battery
>
>
> >
> > Thanks all to the help on this one! You are all exactly right: Bonehead me
> > didn't tighten that terminal. So, I learned a good lesson, and it only
> > cost me a new T-125. ;-(
> >
> > In the future, I will use a copper washer above and below the cable, spray
> > with Deoxit, and check tightness. Then, try a short run to feel any
> > heating (or invest in an infrared thermometer). This is only a 24V pack,
> > so it's safe to touch the terminals. But, I appreciate the warning for
> > folks with higher power packs.
> >
> > Which, bring up a question: For folks that have high voltage packs, what
> > is the protocol for tighening/checking terminals? Rubber gloves?
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >
> > > Classic case of a loose connector. If you don't keep all and I mean all
> the
> > > connections tight the loose one will melt. Check the connections often
> if
> > > not sooner. Lawrence Rhodes....
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "jon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 12:11 PM
> > > Subject: Toasted T-125 battery
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > So, yesterday my son and I were tooling around in my comutacar, which
> has
> > > > a pack of Trojan T-125s (8 of them). On the way back to home, we
> smelled
> > > > something burning, and then observed a big cloud of smoke coming from
> the
> > > > rear battery compartment.
> > > >
> > > > We hopped out, lifted the cover, and one battery terminal was ON FIRE!
> So,
> > > > using my super power (bad) breath, I blew it out. (From now on, we
> will
> > > > carry a CO2 extinguisher). My 9 year old son was quite impressed. ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Well, that battery is toast. The positive terminal melted completely
> off,
> > > > and into the battery. Wow.
> > > >
> > > > Strange thing is NOTHING ELSE GOT HOT!!???? The 300 A fuse didn't
> blow,
> > > > and the battery cables were not any warmer than usual. No shorts were
> > > > found, etc.
> > > >
> > > > So, has anyone ever seen a Trojan (or any other battery for that
> > > > matter) develop a high resistance that then causes high temp, and then
> > > > self destructs?
> > > >
> > > > I'm going to replace out the battery, and keep close eye on operating
> > > > current from now on. Any thoughts? It was kinda creepy to have a
> battery
> > > > go up in flames!!!!
> > > >
> > > > Maybe need a smoke detector in the battery bays. :-)
> > > >
> > > > Jon
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Jon Kenneke KA7PGB
> > > > Kenneke Communications
> > > > http://www.kenneke.com
> > > > Radio Takena KTK
> > > > Listen at: http://www.live365.com/stations/kenneke
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Jon Kenneke KA7PGB
> > Kenneke Communications
> > http://www.kenneke.com
> > Radio Takena KTK
> > Listen at: http://www.live365.com/stations/kenneke
> >
> >
>
--
Jon Kenneke KA7PGB
Kenneke Communications
http://www.kenneke.com
Radio Takena KTK
Listen at: http://www.live365.com/stations/kenneke
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence;
The 20 amps you are reading on the K&W does not reflect the power factor of
the charger, which is basically ~terrible~ and probably makes the heating
effects on the connectors look more like 40 amps.
I have always had the same problem with my twist locks, and resigned myself
to running lower currents to keep things cool. Last spring, I installed a
60 amp, motor-driven variac on the supply side of the charger's input (the
variac is heavy, and installed permanently on the house, not the car). I've
adjusted the variac to lower the voltage going into the K&W so that the
charger does no waveform alteration (PWM) when the batteries are in bulk
charging mode. The K&W current control is adjusted to limit the current to
20 amps during that initial charge after plugging in. After that the triac
in the charger runs wide open and the variac limits the current the
old-fashioned way, by lowering the voltage of the AC waveform instead of
chopping it. This results in a much better power factor, and less heating
of the connectors.
The K&W sill goes into cutback to taper the charge current at the end of
the charge cycle, but by then, the charge currents are in the 3-5 amps
range, so heating isn't an issue.
This may not be a useable solution to your problem, and large variable
transformers are quite expensive (mine was salvaged = free), but it is one
way of correcting the PF on an inexpensive charger. The alternative is get
one of Rich's PFC chargers (not = free).
-S
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone asked if those who get the EV list as a digest have gotten an
odd format recently. I have about 3 times over the last week or so. It
seems to happen when one of the postings is cleaned by virus-detection
software. The subject is replaced by "Klez.E Immunity" and the digest
ends after that email. However, the entire digest then comes as an
attachment with a .html suffix. The attachment doesn't display properly
in a browser, but it's easy to read in a text editor.
--
Phil Bardsley
Carolina Population Center
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
919-966-2825
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi again,
A couple of Listers suggested going to
DC Power System's website.
I did , already. the manual's there, and it
says the connection schematic is on the back page.
But there's no schematic in the web pages!
Help!
Richard Bebbington
Electric Mini pickup
( Mr Motor, meet Mr Raptor...
Mr Raptor, EAT Mr Motor... ;)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard,
I scanned in the connection schematic and put it on my web page at
http://www.aracnet.com/~rmerwin/prizm/dcp600.jpg
I don't have the schematics for the remote display or the tach sensor.
Ralph
Richard Bebbington writes:
>
> Hi again,
>
> A couple of Listers suggested going to
> DC Power System's website.
>
> I did , already. the manual's there, and it
> says the connection schematic is on the back page.
>
> But there's no schematic in the web pages!
>
> Help!
>
>
> Richard Bebbington
> Electric Mini pickup
>
> ( Mr Motor, meet Mr Raptor...
> Mr Raptor, EAT Mr Motor... ;)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All -
I have a 6 cylinder tachometer that I would like to use with my DCP
controller, which is designed to drive a 4 cylinder tach. As many of
you are aware, the controller has an optical sensor which is designed
to pick up two reflective blips per revolution, as would a standard 4
cyl sensor. I was thinking about just painting 3 reflective bits on my
motor shaft which should make my 6 cyl tach accurate. However, then
the controller would rev limit way too low on normal settings. So, I
could set the limit to 6500 RPM, which would give me an actual limit of
around 4300 RPM. Am I crazy? Any ideas?? That is a pretty low rev
limit
Seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I suppose I am known for high current off the grid charging,
but I am interested in all charging aspects, even charging
at the lowest current.
My experience has shown charging at low currents might be
slow but it is more gentle, and gives a more through charge.
Going by the feel of the drive, I agree.
Some have POSTed to the EV List in the past that at
lower currents the reformation of the lead is more evenly
built back on the plates.
Plus charging at lower currents is more efficient using less
energy. Less energy used is less pollution. Driving an
inefficient Blazer EV to fit my large size, I try to watch
my energy use (I do this even when I ICE).
After the fast charging trip to Sacramento and back, I had
been trying different lower charging currents. I had tried
these lower charging currents witht he different chargers
I have.
I have had success with charging overnight at 6 amps or
higher. But when I tried lower than 6 amps, the finishing
charge voltage was never reached, and the pack just warmed
up from the current flow that did not shut off.
[132VDC US145 pack, usually a 163VDC finishing charge at
high currents, or a 158VDC at low currents]
I have had a similar experience when charging two traction
batteries in series with a 3 amp 12VDC auto battery charger.
The charge current never really finishes.
I assume it is the fact that there is internal battery
leakage and resistance will make the finishing charge
voltage different for different finishing charge currents.
Has anyone else charged at very low currents?
What are their experiences?
-Bruce
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above EV ascci art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A theory for charger designers and how to write charger software.
Many app notes references.
http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/680
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am pretty sure that 1000A is more than that contactor is rated for
under any realistic (greater than 100V) voltage for any reasonable
acceleration time. (Assuming you are talking about the EV-200 "Czonka")
And breaking 2000A (@320VDC) is for one cycle, there is no rating for
breaking after making contact into a short (which did the welding). I
have seen them fail in this manner before. If closing the contactor
immediately "popped" a fuse like a 35A fuse, then they should have
swapped the contactor out based on excessive "make" current. I have also
made the mistake of not checking. No one got hurt, but it took a second
to figure out what was going on.
(The Other)
Seth
Seth Murray wrote:
>
> I was talking with Brian a few days ago about this as I'm planning
> another conversion, this time high powered (1000 amp T-Rex), and I
> wanted to find a contactor that could take it. Don't think I'll be
> using the CIII... I believe the Wild EVolutions Maniac Mazda uses an
> Allbright SW200 with upgraded magnets. If it works for them it works
> for me! I'm only going to have 1 T-Rex, not 4... :-)
>
> Seth
>
> On Monday, November 18, 2002, at 09:34 PM, Jim Coate wrote:
>
> >
> > Brian Matheny recently sent me this description of how a Czonka III
> > contactor failed by welding shut when carrying (not interrupting) a
> > brief high current.
> >
> > This is of concern to me as I have 2 of these as the main contactors
> > in my truck and I know some others out there also use them as main
> > contactors:
> >
> > >Brian wrote:
> > > [...] Tried hooking up the heat in my MR2 last week. Unfortunately
> > > there is apparently a short in the heater cores or wiring since the
> > > first time it was switched on it blew the 35A fuse I had inline.
> > > When I dropped in a replacement fuse it blew in a spectacular
> > > fashion. Turns out the little Kilovac had welded! Amazing there
> > > would be enough current since its supposed to interrupt 2000A and
> > > it seems unlikely the approx 20 feet of 12ga wire feeding the
> > > heater would allow more than that since the batts are only rated
> > > for 3000A short circuit. In other words, it seems like they will
> > > provide you absolutely no possible protection in the event of a
> > > shorted controller. Just thought you might want to know.
> > > -Brian
> > > 63,500+ EV miles since 5/97!
> > > http://home.attbi.com/~bmatheny/ws3f.htm
> >
> > [reposted to the list by permission as Brian isn't on it right now]
> >
> > _________
> > Jim Coate
> > 1992 Chevy S10
> > 1970's Elec-Trak
> > http://www.eeevee.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
>
> http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I looked at electric vehicles on Ebay for the first time in a while and
was impressed by how many there were - scooters, NEVs, etc and a couple
of real cars including a nice Solectria right in my back yard. Don't
know what to make of the quantity, but the bids so far tell me that
interest in EVs is alive and well.
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All;
I had a similar EVent with a big 100 amp contactor, using it for a
heater power circiuit. It zorched several times, Didn't know it when it was
turned on and off a few times. I was sitting in the car fat, dumb, warm and
happy, til I smelled smoke, and opened the hood, fearing I had let the smoke
out of my Rapture controller. Bib smoky plasma effect! Replaced the
contactor with another with a capaciter across the points, at Jack Gretta's
suggestion, and capaciter. He said it was way over kill, but it worked
GREAT, only a little "snick" when it opened. About the size of a C cell
battery. But it was scary seeing the blue zorch, not unlike an arc weldor.
Easy to see why they weld contactors shut, at a fraction of their current
ratings. Don't thionk ya can blame Czonka on that one
IMHO
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: Czonka 3 contactors not safe?
> I am pretty sure that 1000A is more than that contactor is rated for
> under any realistic (greater than 100V) voltage for any reasonable
> acceleration time. (Assuming you are talking about the EV-200 "Czonka")
>
> And breaking 2000A (@320VDC) is for one cycle, there is no rating for
> breaking after making contact into a short (which did the welding). I
> have seen them fail in this manner before. If closing the contactor
> immediately "popped" a fuse like a 35A fuse, then they should have
> swapped the contactor out based on excessive "make" current. I have also
> made the mistake of not checking. No one got hurt, but it took a second
> to figure out what was going on.
>
> (The Other)
> Seth
>
>
>
>
>
> Seth Murray wrote:
> >
> > I was talking with Brian a few days ago about this as I'm planning
> > another conversion, this time high powered (1000 amp T-Rex), and I
> > wanted to find a contactor that could take it. Don't think I'll be
> > using the CIII... I believe the Wild EVolutions Maniac Mazda uses an
> > Allbright SW200 with upgraded magnets. If it works for them it works
> > for me! I'm only going to have 1 T-Rex, not 4... :-)
> >
> > Seth
> >
> > On Monday, November 18, 2002, at 09:34 PM, Jim Coate wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Brian Matheny recently sent me this description of how a Czonka III
> > > contactor failed by welding shut when carrying (not interrupting) a
> > > brief high current.
> > >
> > > This is of concern to me as I have 2 of these as the main contactors
> > > in my truck and I know some others out there also use them as main
> > > contactors:
> > >
> > > >Brian wrote:
> > > > [...] Tried hooking up the heat in my MR2 last week. Unfortunately
> > > > there is apparently a short in the heater cores or wiring since the
> > > > first time it was switched on it blew the 35A fuse I had inline.
> > > > When I dropped in a replacement fuse it blew in a spectacular
> > > > fashion. Turns out the little Kilovac had welded! Amazing there
> > > > would be enough current since its supposed to interrupt 2000A and
> > > > it seems unlikely the approx 20 feet of 12ga wire feeding the
> > > > heater would allow more than that since the batts are only rated
> > > > for 3000A short circuit. In other words, it seems like they will
> > > > provide you absolutely no possible protection in the event of a
> > > > shorted controller. Just thought you might want to know.
> > > > -Brian
> > > > 63,500+ EV miles since 5/97!
> > > > http://home.attbi.com/~bmatheny/ws3f.htm
> > >
> > > [reposted to the list by permission as Brian isn't on it right now]
> > >
> > > _________
> > > Jim Coate
> > > 1992 Chevy S10
> > > 1970's Elec-Trak
> > > http://www.eeevee.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
> >
> > http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
>
> --
> vze3v25q@verizondotnet
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 11/15/02 8:41:57 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Of course if you have one of those rotating dial gauges used for centering
holes, then alignment for copying is pretty easy. Anybody know where I can
get one of these that doesn't cost as much as my mini mill?
>>
Just go to Harbor Freight or something similar and buy a set of "Transfer
Punches".
They will probably cost you under 30 bucks for the whole set. Then clamp one
adapter over the proper piece of aluminum and transfer the holes accurately,
then drill on a drill press. Regards, David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How can we tell all the people who love to tinker with cars what there
missing by not getting on the EV bandwagon ? Oh I guess you just did . Good
job :-) ( that EV Grin will not come off with soap and water ether)
Subject: EV Grin! Electric Lemon's First Juice.
> Just over a year since I backed the Citroen D into the garage under dino
> power for the last time, I completed a small wiring fix, I set my beret to
> a rakish angle and drove her out tonight for a test drive to the
> neighbours. YaHOOOO! IT'S ALIVE!
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've had to replace two or three of the master cylinder brake
light switches on my 1980 Rabbit since it became an EV back in
1994. One of those was replaced maybe back in 1995 or 1996, then
had to be replaced again in 2001. I'm not real impressed with
their robustness on this car.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Sell, Ken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 8:33 AM
Subject: 1984 VW brake light problem
> Hello,
> I own a 1984 VW Rabbit Convertible (electric), and I'm having a
problem with the
> brake lights. They don't seem to work.
> I've checked the bulbs and they are fine. I have a 1980-1983
Bentley VW Rabbit manual (not 1984),
> which indicate that the fuse is S2 (i.e. second from left).
That fuse is ok.
> Any suggestions?
> Thanks,
> ....Ken
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--- Begin Message ---
The data shows that the NG5 tapers and sharply at
160VDC. The PFC-50 is set to taper at 161VDC.
The NG5 does not push power as solid as the PFC-50.
As the voltage rises, the NG5 backs off, while the
PFC-50 pushes jsut as hard at full power.
See
http://geocities.com/brucedp/files/021101tripsac.xls
or use the comma delimited text below:
,,,,,11/1/02 trip to Sacramento
time,DC amps,ahrs,packV,kw,Newark 6:40am 14.6mi -42ah
7:11,70,-42,147,10290,NG5=31 DCamps
7:21,60,-29.6,153,9180,PFC-50=39 DCamps
7:32,47,-22.3,154,7238,208VAC no load
7:41,42,-15.5,155.5,6531,132VDC US145 pack=79F
7:55,41,-10,159.5,6539.5,
7:57,26,-3.5,160.5,4173,
8:01,22.2,-1.8,161,3574.2,"PFC-50 only, NG5 off"
8:11,16.4,-0.9,161,2640.4,
time,DC amps,ahrs,packV,kw,San Ramon 8:56am 24.1mi -65.6ah
8:58,42,-65,141,5922,( <- PFC-50 alone 32 AC amps in)
8:59,73,-64,146,10658,Both NG5 & PFC-50 on
9:12,73,-51.1,149,10877,212VAC no load
9:22,72,-41.2,150.5,10836,207VAC 30 AC amp load
9:32,70,-30.9,151.5,10605,
9:42,57,-20.7,152,8664,
9:52,51,-14.7,152.5,7777.5,
10:02,45,-7.8,153.5,6907.5,
10:12,44,-1.6,156.5,6886,
10:22,42,4.5,159.5,6699,
10:32,28.5,9,160.5,4574.25,
10:42,21.4,12.4,160.5,3434.7,
time,DC amps,ahrs,packV,kw,Concord 11:20am 14.6mi -23.5ah
11:30,35.4,-20.2,148,5239.2,PFC-50 using AVCON adaptor
12:00,34.4,-5.9,152,5228.8,200VAC no load at AVCON
12:10,33.7,-0.3,155.5,5240.35,180VAC 32 AC amp load
12:20,27.7,3.2,160,4432,
12:30,18.2,7.6,160.5,2921.1,( <- PFC-50 Slow blink blue led )
,,,,,
,,,,,11/1/02 Vacaville overnight AVCON charged
,,,,,11/2/02 to Sacramento Ralph's 14-50 charged
,,,,,11/3/02 Vacaville overnight return trip
time,DC amps,ahrs,packV,kw,Concord 11:20am 33.1mi -60.7ah 134.5V
11:30,35.7,-60.1,142,5069.4,PFC-50 using AVCON adaptor
12:00,34.9,-47.5,145,5060.5,200VAC no load
12:30,34.9,-38.6,147,5130.3,180VAC 32 AC amp load
time,DC amps,ahrs,packV,kw,San Ramon 12:50pm 14.5mi -73.9ah 133VDC
1:00,76,-69.2,147,11172,both NG5 and PFC-50 on
1:10,75,-57.6,148,11100,214VAC no load
1:20,74,-47.8,150,11100,208VAC 32 AC amp load
1:30,71,-39.1,151,10721,
1:40,63,-29.2,152,9576,
1:50,58,-22.9,152.5,8845,
2:00,52,-16.1,153,7956,
2:10,47,-6.9,153.5,7214.5,
2:20,46,-0.7,156,7176,
2:30,44,2.9,157.5,6930,
2:40,43,6.5,159,6837,
2:50,28,10.7,160,4480,
3:00,16,14.9,161,2576,
time,DC amps,ahrs,packV,kw,Newark 3:45pm 24.5mi -43.6ah 137.5VDC
3:55,74,-41.5,147,10878,both NG5 and PFC-50 on
4:05,70,-30.3,150,10500,204VAC no load
4:15,63,-23.5,151,9513,194VAC 32 AC amp load
4:25,57,-15.8,152,8664,
4:35,47,-9.8,153,7191,
4:45,42,-4.3,154,6468,
=====
' ____
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above EV ascci art)
=====
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--- Begin Message ---
Often times estate/garage sales or even pawn shops will dial indicator
equipment reasonably priced. Ot the local buy/sell swap magazine. I
would think you shoould be able to get something for under US$50, maybe
half that.
Seth
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/15/02 8:41:57 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << Of course if you have one of those rotating dial gauges used for centering
> holes, then alignment for copying is pretty easy. Anybody know where I can
> get one of these that doesn't cost as much as my mini mill?
> >>
> Just go to Harbor Freight or something similar and buy a set of "Transfer
> Punches".
> They will probably cost you under 30 bucks for the whole set. Then clamp one
> adapter over the proper piece of aluminum and transfer the holes accurately,
> then drill on a drill press. Regards, David Chapman.
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello! I'm still working (or procrastinating) on my electric go-kart. I need
some batteries for it. The drive is a 48V forklift hydraulic motor with
250amp PWM controller. I found some SLA batteries that I can get fairly
cheaply (33USD each). They are Remco RM12-60XU batteries, the specs can be
viewed here:
http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/GeneralManager?&catalog_id=2000000003844&d
esign=clean&language=en&action=GetSupplier&page=supplier/ProductDetail&suppl
ier_id=6008800544275&product_id=8818842745&action=GetProduct&action=GetPoint
&point_id=3000000149745
(Sorry for the huge link)
Most important info is:
Nominal voltage: 12
Nominal capacity: 60 Ah (20 hours rate)
Dimensions: 227L x 136W x 205H mm
Weight: approx 18.5 kg
Capacity characteristics
Cut off voltage: 20 hours rate (3A); 60 Ah
1.75 v/c@ 25 degree Celsius: 10 hours rate (5.4A); 54 Ah
1.70 v/c: 5 hours rate (10.2A); 51 Ah
1.55 v/c: 1 hour rate (35A); 35 Ah
1.67 v/c: 15 min rate (113A); 28.25 Ah
Charge voltage (constant):
Bloc 13.5 to 13.8 float; 2.25 to 2.30 per cell
Bloc 14.4 to 14.7 cycle; 2.40 to 2.45 per cell
Discharge current amps (5 seconds maximum): 550
Discharge current amps (maximum continuous): 250
Maximum charge current: 18 A
Approx final charge current (2.25v/c float): 0.13 (130mA)
Approx final charge current (2.45v/c cycle): 0.65 (650 mA)
These batteries are about the heaviest that I am willing to add to the kart
at a total of 74kg. The whole thing would probably weigh around 100kg with
the batteries and no driver. This is my first EV so there is something
glaring wrong with my choice of batteries please inform me :). I am
basically asking for people's opinion here. I worried that they might be too
heavy but the range isn't going to be overly good even with these batteries,
is it?
Thanks very much for any advice
Dean
PS
I can also get a 50Ah battery that weighs around 14.8kg but I can't seem to
get and decent specs for it. Here's its huge link:
http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/GeneralManager?&catalog_id=2000000003844&d
esign=clean&language=en&action=GetSupplier&page=supplier/ProductDetail&suppl
ier_id=6008802381254&product_id=8821682922&action=GetProduct&action=GetPoint
&point_id=3000000149745
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm waiting on a PFC, and don't have big batteries yet either. When I'm
done the test run, I reconfigure the 8 12volt 26Ah Hawkers to parallel and
charge with a "6 amp" car battery charger. When I return the next day the
charger rate is down to a trickle and the finishing voltage is 15.0 at
about 65 degrees F in my heated battery box.
Last night I put a stake through the heart of one of these used batteries
(the price was right - I got them for free). I took my wife for a ride and
on the way back it was harder to keep the voltage from sagging below
85. It flashed briefly to 76 (for a split second), but most of the way
back it was not below 90. Couldn't go too fast anyway because there's no
windshield and it was somewhat chilly. Still, it's strange how the car
seems to want to go faster when my wife is in it than when I'm out testing
it by myself. YaHOOOO!
I measured the individual battery voltages when I got back and most of them
were between 12.3 and 12.6 after a few minutes rest. The one on the
negative end of the string was 10.8. Ow!, Ow! That's gotta be bad. I put
an individual charger on that battery and about 15 minutes later it was
drawing 4 amps and showed 12.8, so maybe i can squeeze a little more
service out of it. If it is still drawing 4 amps when I go back there
tonight, well, it's time to order some real batteries. I now know why
newbies always destroy their first set of batteries. Can't get enough of
that electric feeling! Should have installed the magnetic St Christopher
medal I bought last week in Oka, Quebec. It says "Soit Prudent" (Be
Prudent). I thought that would be a good motto.
My wife did get have at least an ev smile after the test drive. Her
summary was "Promising". Maybe it was the slush spraying in her face from
the uncovered wheels that prevented her from being more enthusiastic. The
dog seemed to like it though.
Mike Hoskinson
Edmonton
At 05:16 PM 19/11/02 -0800, you wrote:
Has anyone else charged at very low currents?
What are their experiences?
-Bruce
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above EV ascci art)
=====
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Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
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--- Begin Message ---
Remco? When I was a kid, that was the brand of the toys I played with.
This looks like a UPS battery. They are standby batteries, not really well
suited to cyclic use.
And please excuse me for asking, but why order cheap no-name Hong Kong
sweatshop batteries anyway? Don't you have a good local battery dealer who
can supply something decent? If you want VRR batteries in this size and
weight range, you should consider proven performers, such as Optima yellow
tops or Hawker G42VP or G70VP.
At the one-hour rate, the Hawker Genesis G42VP will yield 33.8 ah to 1.67vpc
vs. the Remco's claimed 35 ah at 1.55vpc. And it weighs less, 14.9kg.
http://www.hepi.com/genesis.htm
I think somebody said that the Optimas will return 43 ah at the one-hour
rate (someone correct me if I'm wrong). They weigh about 20kg.
http://www.optimabatteries.com/products/pdf/D34_78.pdf
Hope this helps.
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
>
> I suppose I am known for high current off the grid charging,
> but I am interested in all charging aspects, even charging
> at the lowest current.
>
> My experience has shown charging at low currents might be
> slow but it is more gentle, and gives a more through charge.
> Going by the feel of the drive, I agree.
>
> Some have POSTed to the EV List in the past that at
> lower currents the reformation of the lead is more evenly
> built back on the plates.
>
> Plus charging at lower currents is more efficient using less
> energy. Less energy used is less pollution. Driving an
> inefficient Blazer EV to fit my large size, I try to watch
> my energy use (I do this even when I ICE).
>
> After the fast charging trip to Sacramento and back, I had
> been trying different lower charging currents. I had tried
> these lower charging currents witht he different chargers
> I have.
>
> I have had success with charging overnight at 6 amps or
> higher. But when I tried lower than 6 amps, the finishing
> charge voltage was never reached, and the pack just warmed
> up from the current flow that did not shut off.
>
> [132VDC US145 pack, usually a 163VDC finishing charge at
> high currents, or a 158VDC at low currents]
>
> I have had a similar experience when charging two traction
> batteries in series with a 3 amp 12VDC auto battery charger.
> The charge current never really finishes.
>
> I assume it is the fact that there is internal battery
> leakage and resistance will make the finishing charge
> voltage different for different finishing charge currents.
>
> Has anyone else charged at very low currents?
> What are their experiences?
>
> -Bruce
>
All you PFC 50 owners out there. The PFC line of chargers is most
Efficient at FULL power and the highest voltages. Kinda nice.
The efficientcy of the PFC50s falls off under 10 amps of output
current. Power Factor fall a bit also.
So for total watts into the pack from the grid wide open is the best
bet.
Still When you ask a 12.5Kw charger to deliver 1 to 2Kw, this is
expected.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think Bruce is getting at the efficiency of chemical processes in the
batteries more then the power conversion in the charger. I would guess that
it depends on a number of difficult to measure variables. And that at
really low currents and really high currents the efficiency drops off.
Andre' B. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If something cannot be defined, it does not exist.
Isaac Newton
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Rich Rudman
<< SNIP >>
>
> All you PFC 50 owners out there. The PFC line of chargers is most
> Efficient at FULL power and the highest voltages. Kinda nice.
> The efficientcy of the PFC50s falls off under 10 amps of output
> current. Power Factor fall a bit also.
> So for total watts into the pack from the grid wide open is the best
> bet.
> Still When you ask a 12.5Kw charger to deliver 1 to 2Kw, this is
> expected.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Murray wrote:
>
> Hi All -
>
> I have a 6 cylinder tachometer that I would like to use with my DCP
> controller, which is designed to drive a 4 cylinder tach. As many of
> you are aware, the controller has an optical sensor which is designed
> to pick up two reflective blips per revolution, as would a standard 4
> cyl sensor. I was thinking about just painting 3 reflective bits on my
> motor shaft which should make my 6 cyl tach accurate. However, then
> the controller would rev limit way too low on normal settings. So, I
> could set the limit to 6500 RPM, which would give me an actual limit of
> around 4300 RPM. Am I crazy? Any ideas?? That is a pretty low rev
> limit
That's a clever solution! It sounds like a pretty reasonable thing to
try.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all. I've been noticing some odd behavior of one of my Rudman Mark
II regulators, and I wanted to ask the list about it.
This regulator is on the the pair of YTs that always seem to get "full"
first. When it gets full, the Green light comes on solid--it never flashes
first. It's either on or off. It doesn't seem to be shunting the current
to the heatsink, though, because the heatsink never changes temp (its always
at ambient). I've changed the setting for the regulation cut in, but it
still has the same behavior. The charging voltage is going up to 15.1 or
15.2, which is higher than I want it to be. Since I don't have the best
charger, I don't have much control over the volts/amps mix, but typically
the pack is being charged at 147 volts or better, at up to 3.5 amps.
None of the other regulators are exhibiting this behavior, and they seem
to handle the current okay.
Do you think my hypothesis is correct?
Thanks.
Mark Dodrill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> I suppose I am known for high current off the grid charging,
> but I am interested in all charging aspects, even charging
> at the lowest current [snip] ... Has anyone else charged at
> very low currents? What are their experiences?
Your experiences are pretty typical. Charging is more efficient at lower
currents. It takes about the same number of amphours, but the average
voltage is lower, so fewer kilowatthours to recharge.
Note that the charger itself will be less efficient at lower power
levels. A 25 amp charger running at 5 amps is much less efficient than a
5 amp charger running at 5 amps.
If you go too low in current, you may not reach full charge. For your
floodeds, "too low" means a current under about 1% to 2% of their rated
amphour capacity (around 2.5 to 5 amps for your 250 amphour US145's).
Below this, the battery's self-discharge current uses up most of the
charging current. Self-discharge current rises sharply with rising
temperature and voltage.
You will still want to do a high current charge once is a while for best
life. It seems to promote mixing of the electrolyte and improve
capacity.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
At 01:10 PM 11/20/02 -0800, you wrote:
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> I suppose I am known for high current off the grid charging,
> but I am interested in all charging aspects, even charging
> at the lowest current [snip] ... Has anyone else charged at
> very low currents? What are their experiences?
...
If you go too low in current, you may not reach full charge. For your
floodeds, "too low" means a current under about 1% to 2% of their rated
amphour capacity (around 2.5 to 5 amps for your 250 amphour US145's).
Below this, the battery's self-discharge current uses up most of the
charging current. Self-discharge current rises sharply with rising
temperature and voltage.
Are you saying that the battery self discharge rate is greater if low
charging current is present as opposed to no current? The batteries don't
self discharge to 0 in 250 hours so the self discharge current must be well
below 1 amp.
Thanks
Brendan
You will still want to do a high current charge once is a while for best
life. It seems to promote mixing of the electrolyte and improve
capacity.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
Brendan Kirby, P.E.
Power Systems Research Program
Oak Ridge National Laboratory
865-576-1768
865-574-5227 Fax
PO Box 2008
MS 6070
Oak Ridge, TN 37831
--- End Message ---
