EV Digest 2499
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(EVAA changes to EDTA, shifts focus away from EVs)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(Electric Wheel SUV)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) enquiry abt 36v motor
by =?iso-8859-1?q?fdsf=20sdfsd?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV Fuse
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV Fuse
by "Gary Graunke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: OT Vehicle safety: Bigger isn't better
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) donor car heads up in illinois
by "Carl Clifford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV Fuse
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Fw: Have you heard the nanometer material of battery additives ...
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) EVLN(JOB: EV Sales Exec. LA)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: OT Vehicle safety: Bigger isn't better
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EVLN(EVAA changes to EDTA, shifts focus away from EVs)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EVLN(EVAA changes to EDTA, shifts focus away from EVs)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Technology news - interesting.
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Testing and charging AGM batteries
by Lesley Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re:cheapest conversion
by harsha godavari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Tropica #16 has it's plates - LONG
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: Testing and charging AGM batteries
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re:cheapest conversion
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) old: Technology news -
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re:cheapest conversion
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(EVAA changes to EDTA, shifts focus away from EVs)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV informational
purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}[Our Thanks to nathan & Tom]
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=4143
Electric vehicle group changes name
By K.C. Crain Automotive News / December 17, 2002
The Electric Vehicle Association [ http://evaa.org ] of the Americas
is changing its name to the Electric Drive Transportation
Association.
The Washington D.C., group, which includes representatives of
automakers, component suppliers and utilities, thinks the new name
better reflects where the industry is heading, said John Wallace, the
group’s outgoing automotive chairman.
Wallace retired this year from Ford Motor Co., where he headed up the
automaker’s alternative powertrain activities and was executive
director of the TH!NK group.
Over the last three years, the auto industry has shifted focus away
from electric vehicles toward hybrid powertrains and fuel cells.
Hybrids and fuel cells use many of the same technologies and
components developed for electric vehicles.
The association’s agenda for 2003 includes seeking more federal tax
incentives to spur the purchase of electric-drive products.
For 2003 the association, which was founded in 1989, will also have a
new mission that it believes is broader and more aggressive. It’s
mission statement calls to “promote the widespread market adoption of
electric drive systems.”
Previously, the group’s statement was less focused on the market
adoption of electric drive vehicles.
===
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EVLN(Electric Wheel SUV)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV informational
purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Poyas [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 10:00 AM
Subject: Press Release- Business News Editor
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Date: December 19, 2002
>From Mars Rover to Main Street- Electric Wheel Ready to Roll
December 19, 2002, Benedict, Maryland- Marine hybrid electric
propulsion producer, Solomon Technologies, Inc., introduces its
patented Electric Wheel" motor to the automotive industry as part of
its Phase II Electric Wheel EV and HEV Product Expansion.
First used by NASA for the Mars Rover, Solomon Technologies Electric
Wheel technology begs the question, If America can put an Electric
Wheel Vehicle on Mars, why cant we successfully build an efficient,
dependable, affordable Electric Car? From the Solomons R&D Team the
answer is simple. The automobile industry has based their electric
motor development on emulating fossil fuel engine technology. The
Electric Wheel is a low RPM, high torque motor, void of the extreme
heat, hundreds of moving parts, and multitude of parasitic losses
associated with combustion engines.
Over the past seven years Solomon Technologies has engineered, tested
and produced Electric Wheel motors, demonstrating to the fossil fuel
engine industries worldwide that these motors are superior in design,
power, and efficiency, able to withstand the harshest environments in
the most remote locations. These clean and quiet, multiple inputs,
dual output electric differential motor transmission devices have
revolutionized the electric motor propulsion market.
Solomon Technologies, Inc. founder and C.E.O. Dave Tether heralds
Phase II Product Expansion as &an unparalleled opportunity to build
a
strategic alliance with a global auto industry manufacturer whose
resources and market position will propel electric vehicles from the
novelty item they are today to the standard mode of transportation
for
the future. We are looking for auto industry leaders who want to
separate themselves from the competition and will use the Electric
Wheel as the avenue for capturing the phenomenal electric vehicle
market.
Solomon Technologies Phase II Team is now seeking strategic partners
and preparing to license their Electric Wheel technology in unison
with building a rolling prototype. Topping the Phase II Teams
demonstration platform priorities is development of an Electric Wheel
Sport Utility Vehicle, proving that Americans dont have to sacrifice
utility for ecology. Lowering Americas dependence on foreign oil and
cleaning up the environment can now be accomplished in a powerful,
efficient hybrid Electric Wheel system that can drive not only
passenger cars, but SUVs, ATVs, pickup trucks, and commercial
vehicles.
Solomon Technologies states that consumers and auto makers no longer
have to wait decades for the development of promised super fuel
technology. The Electric Wheel is currently being used as the power
foundation on the hydrogen/fuel cell platform sponsored by hydrogen
electrolysis promoter HaveBlue, and as new fuel alternatives become
available, the Electric Wheel will be in place as the powertrain
source of choice.
For more information on Solomon Technologies, Inc. and the Electric
Wheel, visit www.solomontechnologies.com.
30
Contact:
Ann Poyas, C.O.O. or
Jane Crawford, V.P. Marketing
Solomon Technologies, Inc.
P.O. Box 314
Benedict, MD 20612 USA
Office: 301-274-4479
Fax: 301-274-0573
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ http://solomontechnologies.com ]
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Thanks guys, I don't think I will try to reinvent the wheel this week, I
searched the archives and found some suggestions on fuses and holders, so
real fuses and holders from grangers it is.
I was hoping someone found some fuse link (wire) like they use in cars
that would hold the higher voltages, I did a google search of fuse links and
couldn't find the rolls of wire we use in the shop to protect circuits on
the equipment we use.
Has anybody found a good combination of fuse and holder for 500 volt and
15 amps, the T-REX go's to 336 volts and the little black book says 14ga
wire should be good for 20 amps at 18 feet, what do you guys think, is 15
amps enough head room to protect the wire?
The only thing I'm finding right now is the big 1 1/2 inch fuse, the
fuse and fuse holder size is what's objectionable, would it be ok to solder
the wire right to the end of the fuse and then cover it with heat shrink.
Seth
>I wouldn't use a fusible link unless it is rated for pack charging
>voltage, I suspect that you are asking for a plasma-boy event, as the
>fusible link burns back like fireworks fuse in a cloud of molten copper,
>the gap spreading ever wider. As I have seen 300VDC jump 3" in smoky
>air, I wouldn't try a fusible link.
Lawrence Rhodes
>I suspect the copper super heated and deposited hot plastic and copper
which
>fused to his hands. It is amazing what thin wire will take before
>vaporizing. I once put a penny in the fuse box of my 67 Datsun Wagon. I
>then put in a radio which required metal grinding. Below the radio in this
>car is a switch. Its circuits being on the outside of the switch and
facing
>up. The tiny little flecks of metal fell on it and I didn't brush it them
>off. The next time I turned on that switch it melted every inch of the
>wire going to the fuse box. That was a long time ago. Will Rodgers said
>something about gaining experience. I hope you will gain from mine.
Lee Hart
> Obviously, a real fuse has been designed by experts and thoroughly
> tested, so you KNOW it works. If you build your own, the burden of
> testing and risk of failure is on you.
cut
> So if you feel you must make your own fuse, look at real fuses and copy
> them as closely as you can. For example, you can use a piece solder (not
> copper) as your fuse element, and put it inside a piece of sleeving
> (woven glass, not plastic), and secure the ends on a terminal block (so
> the loose ends don't blow apart). Then TEST it to see where it really
> blows, and to be sure it won't start a fire or let a live wire get
> loose.
www.lasvegasev.com
Richard Furniss
Las Vegas, NV
1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
Board Member, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
--- End Message ---
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> Has anybody found a good combination of fuse and holder for 500
> volt and 15 amps
Rich,
The KLKD fuses from littlefuse are good to 600VDC and I'm sure they have a
15A fuse. (Yes, that's DC, not just AC).
I use KLKD 5A fuses for the wires going to each battery in my truck. They
are reasonably small, and so is the fuseholder. However, incredible as it
may seem, the fuse holders were still too large for my US Electricar battery
boxes. So I removed the clips from the stock holder, and pop-rivited them to
small ceramic strips I found at a surplus store. They now fit inside the
handle of the Hawker Genesis 42A batteries!
I usually get fuses from fuses unlimited in the bay area via mail order.
One other tip: I found that I could put regular cheap 30V 5A Buss
automotive fuses in series with the high voltage KLKD fuses in a battery
equalizer application, where adjacent voltages were in that range. They blow
faster than the KLKD fuses--an I messed up enough to verify this
experimentally (sample size 5). This is helpful because the KLKD fuses are
$6.80 each, and they are also located in my difficult to reach battery box.
Gary
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--- Begin Message ---
Crabb, David wrote:
> I don't think too many people think of it like nuclear or battleship
> proliferation, where you want something bigger or heavier than the
> next guy... So now if everyone just drove Excursions... just to be
> safe, would we really be any safer?
Most people do not think more than one move ahead. They assume that a)
bigger cars are safer, and b) nobody but them will buy a bigger car.
Therefore, they will be safe because theirs is the biggest.
This is not a winning strategy. First, accident statistics show that
bigger cars are NOT automatically safer -- SUVs and pickup trucks have
higher fatality rates than anything except sports cars. Second, because
what you do affects what others do. When you buy a big SUV, so will your
neighbor. As all the cars on the roads shift toward SUVs, your "size
advantage" disappears.
> does anyone know of statistics where they take into account hitting
> a tree or a 'like' vehicle?
The study recently cited in Scientific American looked at the driver
fatality rates in your car and the other car. Basically, it found that
the ranking for YOUR safety was:
best: imported luxury cars
minivans
large cars
mid-sized cars
SUVs
compact cars
pickup trucks
subcompact cars
worst: sports cars
And the ranking for the car that hits you was:
best: imported luxury cars
subcompact cars
large cars
mid-sized cars
compact cars
minivans
SUVs
sports cars
worst: pickup trucks
Note that weight is a factor, but does not dominate. How the vehicle is
built matters much more. Also, when you look at the actual data, they
give the range of values and you can see that there are drastic
differences between specific vehicles. For example, though the *average*
subcompact is more dangerous to its driver than an average SUV, the
*best* rated subcompact is safer than than the average SUV.
The trouble is that there are hundreds of millions of cars on the roads,
and thousands of accidents every day. This is a gigantic pile of data.
Nobody has the money to search through it all. If a group has enough
money to do a small in-dept study, people say, "it's too small to be
meaningful." If they do a large study, it is necessarily shallow, and
people say, "you made too many simplifying assumptions."
Besides, there is a natural human tendency to decide first, and then
ignore all data that contradicts your choice, and exaggerate all data
that supports it. They don't *want* to know the truth -- they only want
to be right.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6229&item=
1875735789
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--- Begin Message ---
Richard Furniss wrote:
> Has anybody found a good combination of fuse and holder for 500 volt
> and 15 amps?
13/32" diameter by 1-1/2" long (called "midget" size) is about the
smallest you'll find with a 500vdc rating. For example, the Buss KLM
series or Littlefuse KLKD series.
> the fuse and fuse holder size is what's objectionable, would it be
> ok to solder the wire right to the end of the fuse and then cover
> it with heat shrink?
I have a Buss KAC type; it is a 13/32" diameter 1-1/2" long "midget"
fuse with flat metal tabs at each end to bolt on a wire or terminal
block. This eliminates the need for a special fuseholder.
Remember that a fuse is a resistor. It gets hot. If you cover it with
heatshrink, it adds insulation so the fuse gets hotter and will blow at
a lower current.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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On 23 Dec 2002 at 22:16, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> More on the additive. Lawrence Rhodes.
> The internal resistance becomes lower because of the conductive path between
> PbSO4 moleculars ...
Sounds like snake oil to me, but I'm a skeptic by trade, not an
electrochemist.
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(JOB: EV Sales Exec. LA)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV informational
purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
US-CA-Los Angeles-OEM Sales Executive - Electric Vehicles
OEM Sales to the Electric Vehicle Industry
SRE Controls is a hi-tech company serving the electric vehicle
market.
Our products control the electric vehicles traction and accessories.
Our markets consist of established ones like the forklifts; automated
guided vehicles, golf cars and floor care products. We are also
active
in some of the new markets like Neighbourhood electric vehicles
(NEV),
hybrid vehicles and fuel cells.
Our competitive advantage is our ability to deliver customer specific
solutions bases on our current products. We offer our clients a
complete solution that includes the motor, wiring, dashboard,
batteries and the controllers.
We currently have an opening in OEM Sales. Candidates for this
position will be considered based on the following:
Essential Qualifications:
-At least 2 years of previous experience with technology-based
hardware sales.
-A solid record of researching, prospecting, qualifying, and closing
OEM sales.
-A willingness to travel up to 50% of the time for face to face
relationship building and sales closure, as well a willingness to
spend a considerable amount of time performing cold calls.
-Ability to accurately record ongoing knowledge acquisition in a
timely manner.
-Technical training in sales, engineering or support.
Preferred Qualifications:
- Established relationships with manufactures of Electric Vehicles.
- Previous heavy domestic and international business travel.
- Proven track record in OEM sales to electric vehicle OEM’s
- Experience with sales of technology-based hardware or related
industrial vehicle industry.
Salary commensurate with experience.
SRE Controls offers an excellent benefits package and a competitive
salary that includes a short-term incentives plan. We have a bright
future, if you would like to be part of it, please email your resume
in word or PDF format to SRE Controls. e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Please visit our web site at
www.srecontrols.com to learn more.
In addition to your resume, please submit a short description that
highlights your qualifications for this position and why you feel you
can be successful.
Equal Opportunity Employer.
Additional Information
Salary: USD 50,000.00 to USD 150,000.00 per year
Contact Information
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
SRE Controls
Ph: 519-725-1250
Fax: 519-725-1645
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On 26 Dec 2002 at 20:03, Crabb, David wrote:
> So now if everyone just drove Excursions..just to be safe, would we really be
> any safer?
No -- everyone would be ^less^ safe. It's even debatable whether the
occupants of such a vehicle are always better off in a collision with a
smaller vehicle.
The structure of truck-based SUVs doesn't absorb crash energy as well as
that of more modern vehicles, including smaller ones; nor is their cabin as
resistant to deformation. Keep in mind that pickups and their related SUVs
are based on a design which has changed little in 50 years.
> Maybe stats from Korea? where they have vehicle weight limits?
They ^used^ to have progressive taxes (on both purchase and use) that hit
heavy vehicles, and those with large-displacement engines. Only the very
wealthy could afford to drive them. But thanks to browbeating by the US
trade representative, they leveled their tax structure in 1999. Read this
US government document and you'll understand what happened:
http://199.88.185.106/tcc/data/commerce_html/TCC_2/KoreaFormovehicles.html
If that link doesn't work, email me privately and I'll send you a copy.
The US wanted Korea to buy lots of US-made vehicles, all of which are much
larger than the ones Koreans drove in those days.
Well, now they drive larger vehicles, all right. Korea's streets are
littered with SUVs. Half the vehicles sold in 2001 were SUVs and minivans.
The irony is that they all wear badges saying Hyundai, Kia, Daewoo and
Ssangyong, not Ford, Chevrolet and Dodge.
Though some run on LPG, many use diesel fuel, which makes Korea's already
bad air worse. Petroleum imports are rising rapidly, with some of the
largest increases in transportation fuel. The Korean government's policies
on taxes for diesel and LPG, and vehicles in which they may be used,
inadvertently exacerbated the effect of the US agreement.
In its ill-conceived efforts to promote US automakers, the US government is
injuring Korea and Koreans through worsened air pollution, greater traffic
congestion, and more accident fatalities -- and it didn't help the US
automakers or US citizens in any measurable way. I suspect that Korea isn't
the only nation which the US government has thus injured.
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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Isn't EDTA a food additive that makes some people sick?
Since EVAA is funded (thus run) by the automakers, EVAA
(now EDTA) is just another mouthpiece for their movement
away from EVs and back to anything that uses fuel.
Ironic that they would choose a name that makes some
people sick.
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On 27 Dec 2002 at 12:56, Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> Isn't EDTA a food additive that makes some people sick?
EDTA is ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid. It's also the European Dialysis
and Transplant Association, but that's probably not what you were thinking
about.
EDTA is sometimes sold as a food supplement.
I believe the orthadox use is in mitigating heavy metal poisoning.
Apparently it can be used to bind heavy metals (chelation).
It's also supposed to be able to remove arteriosclerotic plaque. I think it
may also be a modern folk remedy for arthritis, but I may be thinking of
something else.
I don't know for sure whether any real efficacy for any of these use has
ever been proven, but that doesn't seem to slow its trade. As for harmful
effects, I believe that kidney damage is at the top of the list. It also
can cause deficiencies of desirable trace minerals, such as zinc.
Pro: http://www.edtachelation.com/
Con: http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chelation.html
Some in the AE community have experimented with EDTA in an effort to bind
(and supposedly render innocuous) lead sulfate in old batteries. I don't
think efficacy has been proven there, either.
http://www.kopico.com/y2k/edta_specs.htm
Is this a great chemical or what? You can use it in your orange juice AND
in your EV's batteries! <g>
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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lots of EV and batts etc R&D-related news items:
http://www.buscom.com/letters/bevtpromo/bevt/bevt.html
Lock
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Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
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Hi all,
This is for the lightweight EV endurance race team that I'm helping out.
I'd appreciate if replies can be CC'ed to me since I'm at home and have
subscribed from here in digest mode for the holiday.
So we've acquired a set of 4 second-hand batteries, donated to the team
by the local Exide branch. They won't be the final batteries that we'll
use in the race, but we'll use them for initial testing.
They are 6v valve-regulated batteries that came out of a UPS bank and I
believe they are AGM, and nominally 85 Ah. The model is Powersafe 3VB9-85,
if that means anything to anyone. I've listed the label data below.
I have a 12v car battery charger to which I have added a kitset regulator
that lets me adjust the voltage at which it will stop charging, so I can
charge them in two 12v strings, although in the vehicle they will all be
connected in series for 24v.
Since they're UPS batteries, the voltages listed on the label are for
float charging. Should I use the same charging voltages for cyclic EV
use, or should I go higher? What voltage should I use for equalising?
How much variance between cells should be allowed before deciding it's
time for an equalising charge? (they have external interconnects)
I'd like to get some idea of what their capacity actually is, how would
I go about testing it? (given that I've only got the batteries over the
holiday break, and not the motor or controller, and no e-meter yet)
I have two multimeters, one of which can do data logging to a PC if I can
only find the adapter, and the other claims to read true RMS. I also
have a 100A meter shunt and panel meter.
I can rig up a light load with a sealed beam headlight and discharge the
batts, but what voltage should I consider to be 50% DOD? 80% DOD?
Should I go all the way down to 100% DOD just once for this test?
Or, is there even any point in testing the pack at a light load since it's
not going to be anywhere close to the real-life on-road load?
Battery label data
------------------
Powersafe recombination standby power battery
6 volt
83 ah c/10 to 1.85 vpc
67 ah c/3 to 1.80 vpc
Recharge 2.25 vpc @25 degC
Do not recharge above 2.30 vpc
--
Lesley Walker
at home
Wellington, New Zealand
LRW_at_clear.net.nz
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I would like to know if any one has considered/done a conversion for the
least amount spent for various componants (given an ICE machine was/is
available at no cost and no pricing for personal labour). A mid sized
ICE as a starting point and the final product with a 30- 40 mile range
(per charge) in winter in the praiaries?
If there is an account of such an experiment, i would appreciate hearing
about it. Yes I am an ignoramus but enthusiastic about EVs and a little
too old.
Regards
Harsha Godavari
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tropica #16 finally has it's plates. You say I already posted this in Oct? Well I
thought I was done. Not so fast bubba. It turns out that there was a mistake made
during the VIN # verification and an 'S' was mistaken for an '8'. When my wife took
the paperwork back to DMV in Oct to get my plates the mistake was noticed and a
reverification was required. Between traveling and minor problems with the car, Oct
and Nov were shot. In Dec came the rains and the colder temps which reduced my already
limited range with my abused battery pack. I couldn't make it back to the same CHP so
another solution needed to be found. There is another CHP facility in San Martin,
about 20 miles south from my home. I had been getting about 20 miles of range back
when it was warmer but now I was down to about 12. My temporary registration expires
at the end of Dec so I was running out of time. If it would just stop raining for a
bit. Remember the Tropica doesn't have a top. Adobe, like many compani!
es in the valley, shuts down for the holidays so I had some time. The weather
forecast said Dec 23 looked promising so I started my adventure.
8:00 - Drive from my home to Marcel's in Coyote, about 7 miles south. Help him put up
his Christmas lights while the car charges for about an hour.
9:30 - Leave Marcel's and head to my father in law's place in Morgan Hill, about 7
miles further south. We walked to Just Breakfast for a bite and chatted to kill about
3 hours while charging.
12:30 - Leave Morgan Hill for the 10 mile round trip to CHP in San Martin. When we got
to the CHP inspection facility, they refused to look at the VIN # even though on the
phone they said they would. She said that I would need to go to the CHP facility in
Gilroy, another 5 miles south. I explained my limited range but she respond "why would
you buy a car that can't get to Gilroy from San Jose". She was going to be of no help.
I called CHP in Gilroy and they said they could look at it. I called my wife and we
decided to go for it. At this point I just wanted to get it done. If I had to get
towed home, so be it. My wife told me later that she contacted the local rental yard
to see if a trailer was available if needed.
1:30 - Off to CHP in Gilroy. Unfortunately the San Martin facility is on the north
bound lanes of hwy 101 so I had to travel north and then back south. I arrived at CHP
in Gilroy and they were wonderful. She inspected the car while others came out to have
a look. I mentioned that I needed to find a place to plug in but she said that they
had no outdoor outlets. If they did, I would have been welcome to use them. Back
inside she looked at the paperworked and then asked, "Why did DMV give you this
form?". DMV had given my wife the wrong form. ARG!@#$! I called my wife and she
offered to drive to DMV, pick up the correct form and drive it to Gilroy. I passed
this on to the officer who asked if it would be possible to fax it, then she paused
and dialed the phone. She called the local DMV and had them fax the form. I was told
that DMV said they would get right on it but that usually means it will be a while. I
left her with my cel # and went of in seach of a friendly outlet. I di!
dn't have to look far. It turns out that there was an outlet right near where the car
was parked and she said I welcome to use it.
4:30 - Signed paperwork in hand and some charge back in the batteries we headed north
back to Morgan Hill. No freeway speeds here. I couldn't afford the extra current draw.
5:00 - Back in Morgan Hill I plugged in the car. My next problem was that my family
was going to dinner with some friends in San Jose at 6:30. I wasn't going to get
enough charge in time to make dinner so my father in law drove me home and we left the
car to charge.
8:30 - After dinner, Marcel drove me back to Morgan Hill to pick up the car and I
headed back to his place in Coyote for some more charge.
10:00 - Finally the last leg from Coyote to home. By now it was about 45 degrees. I
don't even want to know what the wind chill was, I was COLD!
Dec 24
Against my better judgement, my whole family headed to DMV to finish the registration
and get my plates. I was sure something else would go wrong and really didn't want to
be bummed on Christmas Eve. When we got to the front of the line, we handed the
paperwork to a clerk who looked it over and then said, "Why didn't CHP fill out these
2 sections". Sigh, I knew it. She gave us a number anyway so we waited our turn. When
our number was called we went to the window, handed over the paperwork and explained
our needs. The gentleman was very helpful and even asked if I knew about the Clean Air
HOV Access stickers. He signed us off and handed us our plates. As we walked towards
the door I was waiting for someone to say "Wait, you still need to..." but it never
happended. I installed the plates as soon as we got home and removed the temporary
sticker.
My wife suprised me with personalized plates. '121GWAT' Think Back to the Future.
It was a very Merry Christmas,
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lots of questions and very little time to do the tests.
First off, cyclic charging can go considerably above the float charge
voltage but what kills the batteries is the amps above the recombination
rate of the battery. This recombination rate varies depending on the age of
battery, the previous history and who built the battery.
You can bulk charge the battery up to about 2.4 volts per cell with as much
current as you can produce. Once you reach this voltage the current must be
tapered to prevent exceeding that voltage. Depending on the age, previous
history and who built the battery, it can go up to as much as 2.5 volts per
cells as long as the temperature does not go up by more than about 9 F or 5
C. You will need to experiment to find what works. With automated equipment,
it can take a couple trys to get it right.
You need to watch both voltage and current to do the tests you want to do. A
single volt meter will not allow you to automate the testing. If you look at
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/25%20cycles%20on%20YT%2019.xls you can see how
the data can be presented. Note that the charge voltage can shoot up like
the charge voltage does at about 27 AHR on cycle 14 and above. That was when
I started using the Optima overcharge algorithm of 2 amps constant current
for a fixed period of time. I was using 3 hours on this corpse and see how
it responded.
When you do a discharge, a Mk 2 Rudman Regulator can be used to stop the
discharge (when the Red LED comes on) and the meter can again be used to
integrated the AHR delivered.
Testing them at light load can reveal any runts in the litter but will not
adequately predict the performance at full load.
A car headlight can run down a pair of healthy batteries like these in about
30 hours. You might want to use two of them to speed up the test.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lesley Walker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 5:57 PM
Subject: Testing and charging AGM batteries
> Hi all,
> This is for the lightweight EV endurance race team that I'm helping out.
> I'd appreciate if replies can be CC'ed to me since I'm at home and have
> subscribed from here in digest mode for the holiday.
>
> So we've acquired a set of 4 second-hand batteries, donated to the team
> by the local Exide branch. They won't be the final batteries that we'll
> use in the race, but we'll use them for initial testing.
> They are 6v valve-regulated batteries that came out of a UPS bank and I
> believe they are AGM, and nominally 85 Ah. The model is Powersafe
3VB9-85,
> if that means anything to anyone. I've listed the label data below.
>
> I have a 12v car battery charger to which I have added a kitset regulator
> that lets me adjust the voltage at which it will stop charging, so I can
> charge them in two 12v strings, although in the vehicle they will all be
> connected in series for 24v.
>
> Since they're UPS batteries, the voltages listed on the label are for
> float charging. Should I use the same charging voltages for cyclic EV
> use, or should I go higher? What voltage should I use for equalising?
> How much variance between cells should be allowed before deciding it's
> time for an equalising charge? (they have external interconnects)
>
> I'd like to get some idea of what their capacity actually is, how would
> I go about testing it? (given that I've only got the batteries over the
> holiday break, and not the motor or controller, and no e-meter yet)
> I have two multimeters, one of which can do data logging to a PC if I can
> only find the adapter, and the other claims to read true RMS. I also
> have a 100A meter shunt and panel meter.
> I can rig up a light load with a sealed beam headlight and discharge the
> batts, but what voltage should I consider to be 50% DOD? 80% DOD?
> Should I go all the way down to 100% DOD just once for this test?
> Or, is there even any point in testing the pack at a light load since it's
> not going to be anywhere close to the real-life on-road load?
>
> Battery label data
> ------------------
> Powersafe recombination standby power battery
> 6 volt
> 83 ah c/10 to 1.85 vpc
> 67 ah c/3 to 1.80 vpc
> Recharge 2.25 vpc @25 degC
> Do not recharge above 2.30 vpc
>
> --
> Lesley Walker
> at home
> Wellington, New Zealand
> LRW_at_clear.net.nz
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Welcome to the list.
Many corners can be cut, but they result in less
safety. Battery status can be checked with a
hygrometer (tests the density of the battery acid),
but it's much easier with an electronic device called
an E-meter. Besides, you get less acid burns on your
clothes!
A typical example is:
8" Motor Damon 800
Controller DCP-600 1600
Contactor 140
GE Circuit Breaker 125
E-Meter 400
Shunt 21
50 Ft. Welding Cable 150
DCP DC/DC Converter 325
Adapter Plate 700
Relays 16
Barrier Strip 10
Vacuum System 360
Manzanita Micro Charger 1500
Interconnect Lugs 50
Retain power steering 430 0
Heater Core & Sw/spk. suppr. 112.5
Powdercoating 30
Springs, Shocks upgrade 700
Fusible links 84
Labor- Welding 75
Batts. 1100
Subtotal, Project 8298.5
Subtract 750 if you don't want the versatility of both
110/220V charging.
Don't get into it because it's cheap; get into it
because it's _right_.
Sincerely,
--- harsha godavari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would like to know if any one has considered/done
> a conversion for the
> least amount spent for various componants (given an
> ICE machine was/is
> available at no cost and no pricing for personal
> labour). A mid sized
> ICE as a starting point and the final product with
> a 30- 40 mile range
> (per charge) in winter in the praiaries?
>
> If there is an account of such an experiment, i
> would appreciate hearing
> about it. Yes I am an ignoramus but enthusiastic
> about EVs and a little
> too old.
>
> Regards
> Harsha Godavari
>
=====
Bob Bath, #2 VoltsRabbit; '02 9A mulch. Black & Decker mower
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/239.html
____
/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are
you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[ref http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList/message/33902 ]
There are 'EV news' outlets on the web like the one Lock
pointed out, but they buy their 'news' after it is old
(its cheaper that way). I pay for news that is current
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList/message/30469
Oct 8, 2002 11:17 pm
EVLN(DOE fund$ UQM tests to improve the EV)
[The Rand Corp 'think-tank' flip-flops / tanks too much
to be credible.
http://wwwsearch.rand.org/query.html?col=www&qc=www+pubs+resareas&qt=carb&Go.x=18&Go.y=49
]
[fcv item placed on fcv group]
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList/message/32817
November 24, 2002
Toyota said last month that it will sell its
hybrid technology to competitors, which will lower prices
further. Nissan has accepted the offer, and General Motors
-- which worked with Toyota on the Geo line of cars several
years ago -- is said to be interested.
Be aware of old news, EV news sites.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
30 miles in winter assuming 35 mph top speed sounds
like one would buy a used 96V EV conversion, put
plate battery warmers in.
A good used EV is a the best bargain, but you will need
to have warm batts to get the range.
Used EVs can be found on eaaev.org
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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--- End Message ---
