EV Digest 2466
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) good site
by Peter A VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Selectria Sunrise? the Perfect High-Dollar EV could be built.
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: OT (But Energy and Beer Related)
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) More Confessions (of an EV Addict)
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: OT (But Energy and Beer Related)
by Alex Karahalios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) solid state relays and chargers
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Kill A Watt peak current
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: Victor's PowerCheq Mystery SOLVED!!!!
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Selectria Sunrise? the Perfect High-Dollar EV could be built.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: VW porsche engine tranny question
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV on Ebay
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV Fiat Spider
by John Bryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) East Coast EV for sale
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Selectria Sunrise? the Perfect High-Dollar EV could be built.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: East Coast EV for sale
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: VW porsche engine tranny question
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: East Coast EV for sale
by "Don Buckshot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Perfect High-Dollar EV
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: OT (But Energy and Beer Related)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: solid state relays and chargers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Gobs of 15V, 2A supplies for sale (Works on DC?)
by Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
For those of you who are still using ICE age vehicles I thought you
might appreciate this site.
http://www.kalecoauto.com/
It has good prices on all of those useful but hard to find ICE parts
like muffler bearings, piston return springs and air filter bypass kits.
Some of the stuff, like the clutch belts and cross drilled brake lines,
might even work on EVs.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here are some brief specs:
http://www.evac.ca/photoweb/EVspecifications/pages/Solectria%20Sunrise.htm
A side view:
http://www.plugitin.co.uk/images/gallerypics/solectria.jpg
Also found the TdS info. It was in 1996, and it went 373 miles on one
charge. I'd forgotten how far it really went. There's something to throw
on the desk of the next "journalist" who parrots the "limited range" line.
I wish I could find more pix on the web. Maybe later.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee,
A quick question for you (since we're going WAY off-topic anyway <GRIN>).
My furnace went out this weekend. It's a 35-year old monstrosity (downdraft
central furnace?) I have a home warranty company that is replacing the unit
with a "like" but modern unit, but I also have the option of "cashing out"
if I want to pay the difference on a better unit.
My question is, how does a heat pump work in very cold climates? We have a
1,260 square foot house, and we have been seeing 25 degree nights. We also
get snow throughout the winter. The unit is located in the basement, and
we're in a two-story house. Would a heat pump be a good replacement for my
gas-powered furnace for "central heat" use, and if so, do you know how it
compares to a 110,000 BTU "80% efficient" gas furnace, cost-wise and energy
bill-wise? We're in the mountains of Southern California, so we see 90-95
degrees in the summer and down to 10 degrees in the winter (but very seldom
below zero.)
Thanks.
Tim
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: OT (But Energy and Beer Related)
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 12:53:26 -0800
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FILETIME=[152BB220:01C29D68]
Andre Blanchard wrote:
> Something just does not feel right about using a very high grade
> high cost form of energy like electricity to provide low grade low
> temp heat, there has to be a better way.
I agree. Electric heat is appealing to builders because it is CHEAP and
EASY for them to install. They don't care what it costs the homeowner to
run it.
Most homeowners don't care about pollution or energy efficiency, either.
All they care about is their monthly heating bill.
The "better way" with electricity is a heat pump. If they were in
widespread use, it would probably reduce society's total energy
consumption and air pollution, regardless of what fuel was used to run
it (electric motor, piston engine driven by natural gas, etc.)
> I live well out of town and heat solely with wood cut on my own
> land, I can not see myself living any other way.
Of course, burning wood produces even more pollution than coal!
Peter VanDerWal (I think?) wrote:
>> Burning coal in every house might be more efficient, but what about
>> the pollution?
History tells us it was very bad. It's hard to imagine scrubbers being
installed on every small home coal-burning furnace, as well.
>> my wife doesn't like gas stoves (she gets headaches)
Yep; the pollution produced by the exhaust is being dumped right inside
your house. Luckily, gas is relative clean. Still, it can cause problems
because new houses are being built so tight.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Saturday night we went out with friends to "El Cholo" on Western (Koreatown)
to celebrate my wife's birthday. No doubt the best Mexican food (on the
"westside" anyway) in LA.
During the conversation I zoned out for a minute and my ever perceptive wife
picked oup on it immediately.
"Earth to Marv, Earth to Marv", she said. "Do you have visions of electric
cars dancing through your head? You do, don't you?!? He's got visions of
electric cars dancing through his head!", she announced to our party.
BUSTED!
J. Marvin Campbell
Cuver City, CA
on 12/9/02 7:49 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> From: michael bearden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 19:18:26 -0800
> To: EVDL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Confessions of an EV Addict
>
> My name is Michael, and I am an addict....
> I am thinking that I should crank out a list of symptomatic actions, you
> know, one of those lists that ends with an instructive list of questions
> or statements that ends with ---"if you have answered 'yes' to 3 or more
> of these questions, you may be..."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Tim,
I know you directed this at Lee, but here are some links for ground
source heat pumps:
http://www.igshpa.okstate.edu/
http://www.northeastgeo.com/default.html
http://www.climatemaster.com/
These units are definitely worth looking into. They use ground water as
there source/sink for heat. And since ground water temperatures are
pretty constant all year round, these units are more efficient than
heat pumps with source/sink from air. Their efficiency is such that
they produce 3-4 BTU for every watt of electricity.
I guess you only want to replace you central heater, but heat pumps
will also provide cooling.
Alex Karahalios
On Monday, December 9, 2002, at 09:22 AM, Tim Clevenger wrote:
My question is, how does a heat pump work in very cold climates? We
have a 1,260 square foot house, and we have been seeing 25 degree
nights. We also get snow throughout the winter. The unit is located
in the basement, and we're in a two-story house. Would a heat pump be
a good replacement for my gas-powered furnace for "central heat" use,
and if so, do you know how it compares to a 110,000 BTU "80%
efficient" gas furnace, cost-wise and energy bill-wise? We're in the
mountains of Southern California, so we see 90-95 degrees in the
summer and down to 10 degrees in the winter (but very seldom below
zero.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can I use a solid state relay to control the AC input to my charger? I only want to
turn it on and off, not phase control.
As long it can handle the peak current of my non-PFC charger, I would think it should
be fine. Correct?
thanks,
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I looked though the Kill A Watt postings in the archives to see if I could find the
peak current rating for the meter. All I could find was the 15amp amp rating. Does
anyone know if it will take a 72volt 12amp, buck switching, non-PFC charger?
thanks,
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
> > Oh yes it is. They don't work correctly unless the N+1 wires are
> > ridiculously heavy and quite short. Who runs the stock loads?
>
> I would guess that a majority of Rudman regulator customers use the
> stock loads. Rich, care to comment?
>
> >> When the Rudman regulator's turn-on/turn-off voltage hysteresis is--
Fully loaded with on board loads are the current hot product. Racers of
course go for the load less.
This thread is getting rather interesting.
Mk1 and load less sync up more than the loaded because there is a very
high current pulse when the customer has a sub 1 ohm load on it. This is not
a bad thing if all the regs are N+1 wired on both the current carrying , and
Kelvin sense. Or just simply wire 2 leads to each battery. This gets ugly
when you remote the Regs. Worse yet is remote N+1 and monster loads. This is
a guaranteed fail mode. I have seen it done. Remoting the led is ok but now
you have 4 little bitty wire that go to the display, and they are all hot to
each other and some have the full pack potential between them. WIRE WEB time.
The Mk2s really should be mounted on the battery that they protect,
because the TEMP comp circuit is on board and the temp sensor should reflect
the battery temp. The concept was a Reg on each battery, no wire web. Simple,
NO Bs regulating. Solves the BIG item...peaking battery voltages when
charging AGM batteries in a hurry or racing. This they do well.
The Mk3 s are supposed to be the same thing plus data recording and
uploading. Plus about a Dozen features that Sheer has added. All are nice but
not needed for the lead acid world. The temp reading of every battery will
allow us to adjust the reg points and charge points on the fly while charging
or anytime. The MK3s will have a simple RJ 4 wire buss daisy chained from Reg
to reg, and then back to the Charger or "Wedge" that will interface with a
RS-232 device. You the customer will find a Palm or a laptop for display
purposes. The PFC charger will have a DB-9 on it, and a VERY basic command
languages. As far as the PFC charger will run, they will parse and buffer
for the out side world while hunting for problems out in Battery land. The
very best application will be a Palm stuck to the dash, and a grid of battery
data displayed.
The effort is to keep the KISS principle in mind as we add all those
sweet Digital features. After all voltage and temp once a second is all we
really need. Oh and the Basic Regulating effort is still the main force
applied.
>
>
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Subject: Re: Selectria Sunrise? the Perfect High-Dollar EV could be built.
Hi All;
My two watts worth, follows.
> Hi Christopher and All,
> --- Christopher Meier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > They other option is to buy the tooling
> > and
> > > > build it as an almost complete kit car using
> > > > remanufactured car parts where new is too
> > expensive.
> > > > That could be done for about $30,000 were the
> > buyer
> > > > bolts in the motor and batteries included or
> > pays
> > > > someone to do it.
Then you could choose a Blue Meanie beating watt rod, or a more sedate
drive train, if tire smoke wasn't that important.
> > > > So is there any interest? Is there a
> > market for
> > > > 100 of them? A market for gliders?
> >
> > Is the $30k a 100 unit price?
You Bet! Shops would spring up to do just that. Build up a
turnkey/pad operation, for sure!
Cost, well.30 K I might be interested, but 50 is out, pushing
retirement, wouldn't have the big bux for that. I HAVE an EV, already, it
duz what I need to do.
> Yes, it would take that amount to pay the
> start-up costs.
>
> >
> > Why didn't we think years ago about asking Solectria
> > to
> > do this? (sound of hand slapping head).
> >
I bet Solectria probably THOUGHT about that Karl Tiedemann? Got yur
ears on, he pops up on the list as the Voice of Solectria, now an'' again.
My take on this is they don't wanna get involved. The Henry Ford daze of "
Build it and they will come" are over. Bob Beaumont tried that YEARZ ago,
and I , in Taiwan, 35 years ago. Too much politics, non car related shut us
both down. Read" Lost Cord" By Barbera Taylor for the Citicar Story, and
weep. Taiwan, well, just ask.BTW they are gunna run a second edition, On
that. I mean The Lost Cord.
> I've been asking about this for years. I got
> tired of waiting for someone else to do it so I
> called.
Thanks for asking, and posting. Jerry. When they first came out with the
car, they had hoped that a car manufacturer would just pick it up and run
with it. Hah! Be easier to open up all Sadamn's palices than that, today.
Not when they, car builders can pass off gussied up pickups for that magic
50k, and get away with it. They don't want you running around with no check
engine$$ Lite that can come on, and if AC, one moving part in the "Engine"
Mine's an older version, 8 moving brushes in my DC motor, doing fine,
thanks. I COULD see 100k, on them? Probably. My ADV 9" motor is very happy
running my Rabbit around. It sings as it goes about it's work, happy indeed!
> They really want someone to do this, just not
> Selectria.
> Maybe if they, Solectria, had the money Sadamn spent on just ONE of
his palaces, throw in what he spent on his nuclear pogram, and we could
almost give the cars away, as a public service!
IMHO
Seeya
Bob An' Jerry Dycus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A short time ago we were discussing adapter plates and it was pointed
out that all(?) air cooled VW & Porsches shared the same bolt pattern
(with some differences in clutches) but the water cooled VWs use a
different bolt pattern.
My new question is do all of the water cooled VWs have the same bolt
pattern and do the water cooled Porsches have the same one? I know the
early 924's used VW engines and I would guess that the 944s and 924S'
probably share this same bolt pattern.
I am specifically interested in the 924S and the VW rabbit (diesel).
Hi Pete,
I don't know this one, though I suspect they may be the same.
These people would know:
http://www.kennedyeng.com/
Just don't ask them about EVs, they got tired of this market a long time ago.
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Zilla "Got Amps" Shirts now available online.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 10:42 AM
Subject: EV on Ebay
> EV Bug (project)
>
> This is too far for me to take on but I thought you would like to see it
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1874466903
>
Whatadeal! If it were in CT, would ad it to my collection. Along wth
that Wayland approved 4k Fiat! Cute car, ALL of them. Go for it, EVerybody!
keep us Posted.
Bob in the Big East, where these things don't happen much.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
> Many of the EV component choices were routed through me, and of special note, the
> car even has a famous 8 inch ADC motor, as it came from none other than 'John Bryan's
> Ghia' to make room for his s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d ADC 1227 high torque 8 incher.
John may not consider me one who got Blue Meanied, since I built my car
a couple of years before I saw the Blue Meanie, but I should mention what happened
when I finally did see the car. My car at that point was powered by 10 Trojans and
a 1221b, the 120 Volt car had adequate performance, like a stock Ghia. After seeing
Blue Meanie and gasping at the beauty of the component layout as well as the
fit and finish, I started doing some thinking and dreaming. Then John had me
take the car for a spin, as we waited at a light a macho man in a pickup truck
challenged me by revving and revvvvving his mighty engine! Back then John had a huge,
in your face "ELECTRIC POWERED" sign in his back window. The light changed, and as
the feller's engine started beating it's mighty chest and roaring with power, I lit
them up and smoked the tires through the intersection, leaving him behind like he
was standing still! So after being totally Blue Meanied to the max, I went home
and upgraded to the ADC 1227, 192 volts of Optimas, Auburn Grizzly controller, and
paid extra attention to the display and layout of the components. It looked pretty
nice before, but seeing Blue Meanie inspired me to take it up quite a large notch.
My before/after performance cannot even be compared, thanks to Blue Meanie. That
sure is a great and fitting name that Clair Bell came up with for the mean but at
the same time beautiful, little car.
Seeya,
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All this talk of EVs for sale reminded me of a deal from an EEVC member.
It should hit the newsletter 12/11. If anyone here is interested,
contact me off-list and I'll get your message to the owner. This is all
I know about it:
*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
VW Rabbit 4 door, 4 speed manual
Advanced D.C. motor L 91-4003
Curtis controller
K & W onboard charger
Sears Aux. batt charger
Vacuum Power brakes
Crusing E-meter
Electric heat
Goodyear Low rolling Resistance Tires
AM - FM Stereo radio
All manuals and conversion info
Pictures available - E-mail or Snail mail.
mechanically good condition
Damaged - 2 batteries (6 volt golf cart)
back of rear seat
back of headliner
Licensed in Delaware until Aug. 2003
Due to battery damage, it is not driveable. otherwise ready to
roll..
My investment in the car is around $ 5000. Due to health problems, I
do not feel able to make repairs.
Am asking $ 500 for the unit.
*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
I'd grab it myself if I had the time or space, but I have neither.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: David Roden (Akron OH USA) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: Selectria Sunrise? the Perfect High-Dollar EV could be built.
> On 9 Dec 2002 at 9:58, 1sclunn wrote:
>
> > Where can I see this "sunrise"
>
> Not a lot of detail, but here's a plain vanilla photo:
>
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/sunrise_ev/
>
> No idea what this group is all about; it has all of 2 members. The
archives
> (with exactly one message) are closed and membership restricted. Maybe
it's
> one of Bruce Parmentier's specialty EV groups. Or did you start this one,
> Jerry?
>
> Simililar pic here with some interesting comments:
>
> http://www.solectria.com/products/accomp.html
>
> The Sunrise has made over 300 miles on a charge (stripped down to the
barest
> minimum mass). That was in a Tour de Sol (around 1996, I think; I could
> look it up but don't want to take time right now). A prototype also drove
> from New York to Boston on a single charge, with James Worden behind the
> wheel, and still had energy left over.
Yup! I was there, In CT when they stopped off for lunch, Manchester, on
I-84. Shook his hand, he sorta knows me, and wished him Godspeed. They took
off, and hung a wrong turn in Hartford, sending the entaurage toward the
Wilbur Cross Parkway, which leads into the Merritt Parkway! AGGGGRH! I was
chasing them in my Diseasel Jetta, and TRIED to deflect them onto I-91's
almost flat grades, for CT. Anybody out here knows rthat the Merritt parkway
runs inland, and unlike todays road builders do, runs up an' down the
rolling hills. Beautiful ride, BUT the ampmeter tells you ya aren't gunna be
doing it very long! 400 amp hills, 'Course he had regen?? But STILL, they
had planned on I-84 to Hartford, I-91 to New Haven, and I-95 to NYC, as
everybody knows, I-95 is one of the longest parking lots in the East!
Ti make for a happy ending: They DID get streightened out and Back to 91
before torturing their batteries on the Merritt. The next daze New York
Times article, burried 'way back in the paper, but THERE, nevertheless. In
the Biz section, was very heartwarming, nice writeup. And He, James still
had some juice left. They made a good point about that.
Sidelines;
The Sunrise that they had, a nod to John Wayland, fit an' finish dept.
Looked like a car that rolled out of the showroom, that morning. No wires
running around, everything buttened up nicely. All it needed was a sticker
on the window, to make my rapture complete. It EVen SMELLED like a new car,
when I tried it on. it isn't a small car, as said before. I fit in, all 6'5"
of me, no problem. What a pretty car! I didn't wanna get out, like the
Forest Green EV-1 I flew at Montreal. Wanted to ty it onto my Jetta and tow
it back to Yankee land!. Bet they would towbar easy! EVen with a Diseasel
Jetta. Wash the soot off if I got back to CT<g>! Anybody that has EVer towed
anything with a Diseasel car, yu know what I mean.
That was with a NiMH battery
> (probably hand-selected modules too). But I have no doubt that it could
> easily achieve a usable range of 100 miles with nicads.
How bout Evercells, Isn't Sheer doing this rite now with His Accord?
Guiess all bets are off with Thundersky's offering?
>
> It's also no minicar. The Sunrise is about the size of a Ford Taurus, and
> has plenty of room for 4 adults. That's probably a plus for most
Americans,
> though I personally prefer small hatchbacks.
Yeah, me too. the Sunrise COULD be a hatchback, I guess, or a really
slick wagon?
>
> The Sunrise is a remarkable EV, in many ways a much more sophisticated
> design than the EV-1. It shows what can be done when smart engineers who
> understand electric vehicle design are given an appropriate environment
and
> sufficient resources. I would love to see it put into production, and the
> thought of one in my driveway just about makes my eyes drool.
I hear you! And millions more if we could get it to them, as the EV
community. Sunrise Fan Clubs, picnics ,rallies, good fun, folks meeting
folks, having fun. Like us, but bigger. A national 'Tread on the Earth
lightly" movement.
>
> A $55k price brings it closer, but -- well, I won't say no, but I can't
say
> yes. I work for a nonprofit organization, and $55k is a lot of paychecks.
> I may have to wait for the second round when the price drops to $35k -- if
> it ever does.
>
> I guess Dave, we'll hafta make do with our homebrew stuff for the
forseaable future, off to my OTHER electric, in a few.
Bob, in fantesyland a bit.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
> switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> 1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
> thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chris;
Hey! I'm all ears! Tell me where and when, want to ad tio my growing
collection! I love the Rabbit I got now, always room in my driveway and
heart for another!
Bob, rite down the road in CT
Rabbit, 1982 120 volt
Nisan Sentra, undergoing frame structural repairs 1986 96volts but could
change
Electrac tracter. Basket case, needs total restoration, but got a good
mower deck!
A buncha Acela trains; 11000/13,500/25000 volts, not mine, but they let me
fly them<g>!
Room for More!
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Tromley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 2:19 PM
Subject: East Coast EV for sale
> All this talk of EVs for sale reminded me of a deal from an EEVC member.
> It should hit the newsletter 12/11. If anyone here is interested,
> contact me off-list and I'll get your message to the owner. This is all
> I know about it:
>
> *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
> VW Rabbit 4 door, 4 speed manual
>
> Advanced D.C. motor L 91-4003
> Curtis controller
> K & W onboard charger
> Sears Aux. batt charger
> Vacuum Power brakes
> Crusing E-meter
> Electric heat
> Goodyear Low rolling Resistance Tires
> AM - FM Stereo radio
> All manuals and conversion info
>
> Pictures available - E-mail or Snail mail.
>
> mechanically good condition
>
> Damaged - 2 batteries (6 volt golf cart)
> back of rear seat
> back of headliner
>
> Licensed in Delaware until Aug. 2003
>
>
> Due to battery damage, it is not driveable. otherwise ready to
> roll..
>
>
> My investment in the car is around $ 5000. Due to health problems, I
> do not feel able to make repairs.
>
> Am asking $ 500 for the unit.
> *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
>
> I'd grab it myself if I had the time or space, but I have neither.
>
> Chris
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:04 AM 12/9/02 -0700, you wrote:
A short time ago we were discussing adapter plates and it was pointed
out that all(?) air cooled VW & Porsches shared the same bolt pattern
(with some differences in clutches) but the water cooled VWs use a
different bolt pattern.
My new question is do all of the water cooled VWs have the same bolt
pattern and do the water cooled Porsches have the same one? I know the
early 924's used VW engines and I would guess that the 944s and 924S'
probably share this same bolt pattern.
I am specifically interested in the 924S and the VW rabbit (diesel).
There is no interchangeability between the 924 and the Rabbit. The Rabbit
used a front engine, front wheel drive transaxle. The Porsche was a front
engine, rear wheel drive car with a transaxle mounted in the rear. The
clutch was mounted with the transaxle.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
I have some interest in this to use the parts to convert my 82 VW Rabbit
pickup.
Can you give me some owner contact information?
Which Curtis controller?
Are the batteries just dead or physically damaged allowing leakage?
Sorry to use up the bandwidth Chris, but I don't know how to contact you off
list
Where is it located?
Don Buckshot
816-582-6891 mobile, anytime
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of Chris Tromley
> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 1:20 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: East Coast EV for sale
>
>
> All this talk of EVs for sale reminded me of a deal from an EEVC member.
> It should hit the newsletter 12/11. If anyone here is interested,
> contact me off-list and I'll get your message to the owner. This is all
> I know about it:
>
> *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
> VW Rabbit 4 door, 4 speed manual
>
> Advanced D.C. motor L 91-4003
> Curtis controller
> K & W onboard charger
> Sears Aux. batt charger
> Vacuum Power brakes
> Crusing E-meter
> Electric heat
> Goodyear Low rolling Resistance Tires
> AM - FM Stereo radio
> All manuals and conversion info
>
> Pictures available - E-mail or Snail mail.
>
> mechanically good condition
>
> Damaged - 2 batteries (6 volt golf cart)
> back of rear seat
> back of headliner
>
> Licensed in Delaware until Aug. 2003
>
>
> Due to battery damage, it is not driveable. otherwise ready to
> roll..
>
>
> My investment in the car is around $ 5000. Due to health problems, I
> do not feel able to make repairs.
>
> Am asking $ 500 for the unit.
> *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
>
> I'd grab it myself if I had the time or space, but I have neither.
>
> Chris
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to all,
OK, here's the gig....I haven't engaged in a good old fashioned Lee Hart rebuttal in a
long time, and I know Lee's really missed the old days of Wayland vs Hart, so what the
heck, here goes!
Lee Hart wrote:
> To perform really well as an EV, the vehicle really needs to be designed
> from the ground up to be an EV.
Oh come on, Lee! 'Needs' to be?
First, let's determine what 'perform' means. To get the ultimate in range per charge
'performance'...maybe. If you only consider range per charge as the primary performance
parameter, well, I guess we could all be driving CommutaCars stuffed with a gazzilion
oozing, acid-spitting golf car batteries.
To get the ultimate in customer acceptance type of 'performance', no way! I'm talking
'quality of appearance performance' ....I'm talking about a car that has the look and
feel
of a high quality factory car, like a Honda, a Toyota, etc. That means body panels that
fit with tidy seams that don't waver and vary, that means body panel materials that
don't
have sand marks, grooves, wavy and warped expanses, or god forbid, a Coleman ice cooler
texture!
To get the ultimate in acceleration 'performance', again, it most certainly does not
have
to be a 'ground up' EV. We have way too many examples of killer EV acceleration from
converted gas cars to demonstrate this.
To get the ultimate in handling 'performance', it also, most certainly does not have
to
be a 'ground up' EV. We have way too many examples of killer EV handling performance
from
converted gas cars to demonstrate this. The converted '65 Mustang I helped design and
build back in '95, had a perfect 50/50 weight distribution and a very low CG...it would
toast most any hopped up gasser Mustang in a slalom contest. I rode in a lowered,
radically tricked out Fiesta EV with Optima's stuffed way low in the body cavities and
a
powerful EV power train... amazing, pull the skin off your cheeks cornering!
>From Steve:
>Where can I see this "sunrise" First let me say that I can understand there price
>(ask a
>big bis to do anything will cost) . I haven't seen the car but as always I'm thinking
>what
>a nice conversion one could make for $55k
For a long time, I've held my breath every time someone, including Lee, raves about the
Solectria Sunrise, all because it ran so far on a charge using hand selected,
cherry-picked, hand built NiMH Ovonics' best batteries. It's really interesting, that I
started to write this rebuttal post yesterday, Sunday, including comments about the
Sunrise,
and as I am finishing it up today, Monday, the whole Sunrise salivation thing has once
again,
popped up, right on cue for this.
>From Jerry Dycuss:
>Of all the EV's built the Sunrise seems to be the best one if it can be put into
>production.
What on earth, makes it 'the best'? Other than an impressive range per charge, and
that's
only because of it's enormous ahr capacity from 'unobtantium' Ovonics hand-selected
batteries, this car does not excel at 'anything'...in fact, it is inferior to even
marginal vehicles.
I saw the Sunrise in person, when it was just a mold sitting upside down in the
backyard
of the Solectria brick building years ago when I was back east. I saw it again at EVS
14
back in '97 in Orlando...sat in it, checked it out from top to bottom, and drove it.
Even
back then, Lee was going on about this 'car'. Gotta tell ya folks....it looks like a 5
year old built this! It had a poor quality (at best) composite body that makes a
Corrvette's wavy fiberglass panels look straight. The interior can't save it,
either...home-made
looking is an understatement! Their AC drive system is about as wimpy as they come,
and
the transmitted
noise inside the car made you think you were driving a thrashing machine. Driving it
was a
depressing experience, with the word 'acceleration' seemingly unsuitable to use as a
term.
Some may remember, that years ago on this very EV discussion list, Solectria's Karl
Tiedemann
was boasting about their products' 0-50 performance in 'under 12 seconds'...it almost
went unchallenged, and again, the Solectria droolers were oohing and ahhing over this.
I
exposed what 0-50 in approx. 12 seconds really meant, when I wrote about the HUGE
difference in a 0-50 time as opposed to a 0-60 time. In the end, I showed how
Solectria
was trying to put a positive spin on what was really a horrible 0-60 time, by using the
smoke and mirrors tactic of using the lesser 0-50 stats instead, hoping that the
automotive-challenged would buy it...many in fact, did. Solectria was bragging about
designing and building an EV that took 'longer' to wheez its way up to 60 mph than a
diesel VW bus! To his credit, Karl did come back to the list and admit he was in over
his
head on attempting to discuss the topic of typical car performance 0-60 time info, and
stated thay he had no idea how different a 0-50 time was from a 0-60 time.
>From David Roden:
>The Sunrise is a remarkable EV, in many ways a much more sophisticated
>design than the EV-1.
(finger in mouth, gaggg) Better than an EV-1? Somebody call a doctor, I'm getting
sick!
OK, I agree, it 'will be' ...after the EV-1's get crushed!
Let's see...Sunrise, 0-60 in an agonizing 17 seconds...EV-1, 0-60 in 7.6 seconds (Road
&
track tested).
Sunrise, wavy, ill-fitting body panels...EV-1, the look, fit, and
feel of a quality import.
Sunrise, creaking body, tacky interior...EV-1, solid body, nicely
assembled interior.
When I hear people put this insanely over-priced, less than kit car quality, funny
looking, miserable accelerating, poor handling vehicle up on a pedestal, I get
nauseous.
Give me (or anyone else who knows cars) the same pack of precious, hand-picked, large
capacity NiMH Ovonics batteries, and the insane dollar budget, and I'll
easily match this car's range performance, but I'll also do it with a car that has
pride
and quality poured into it, a car that can pin you in the seat with real acceleration,
a
car that has real cornering ability, etc.
>It shows what can be done when smart engineers who
>understand electric vehicle design are given an appropriate environment and
>sufficient resources.
The Sunrise for me, is the ultimate example of what can happen when 'engineers' go
unchecked by 'normal' people. Sunrise, brought to you by the same 'smart engineers' who
brought us the $40k Geo Metro!!! Yup, you just have to use 'smart engineers who
understand
electric vehicle design' to come up with a Geo Metro that has truly awful
acceleration, a
severely limited top speed, mediocre hill pulling ability,
and has the same range as a backyard, $8k DC powered EV conversion, all for just $40k!!
Though I am really grateful for the downtown EV Charging station Portland General
Electric
(PGE) sponsors and provides free charging juice for, it's also a never-ending source of
embarrassment for me and may other EVers. Proudly displayed and attached onto each
face of the station, is a plastic encased 'EV Statement' showing an uninspired,
bland-looking Solectria Force (one of those brilliant $40k+ Metro conversions) with a
caption that states how 'today's modern EVs can go as fast as 65 mph!'. As I read the
charger's mantra and am plugging in my 30 year old Datsun conversion that can bury its
100
mph speedo and melt the tires at will, I get sick.
>From Lee Hart:
> Trying to convert an ICE car into an EV
> is always challenging. The smaller the car, the worse the problems get.
Yes, these are correct statements...but, trying to design, build, and properly execute
a
ground-up EV into a real 'car' that has the look, finish, feel, and performance (in all
senses of the
word) is even more challenging!
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Alex Karahalios wrote:
> I know you directed this at Lee...
I answered Tim directly, as this topic is pretty far off-list
> but here are some links for ground source heat pumps:
> http://www.igshpa.okstate.edu/
> http://www.northeastgeo.com/default.html
> http://www.climatemaster.com/
Thanks for the great links!
> Their efficiency is such that they produce 3-4 BTU for every watt of
> electricity.
I'd like to point out a correction to this on the EV list, since it is
relevant to the topic of heating / air conditioning EVs.
Air conditioners and heat pumps generally give their efficiency as a
SEER number (Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratio), which is the number of
BTUs of heat it moves divided by the total energy input in WattHours. A
plain old electric heater produces 3414 BTU per 1000 Watthours (SEER =
3.414); thus they produce 3.414 BTU per watthour. So, a SEER of 3 or 4
for an air conditioner is terrible. SEER numbers as high as 16 are
currently available in the best heat pump systems.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Can I use a solid state relay to control the AC input to my charger?
> I only want to turn it on and off, not phase control. As long it can
> handle the peak current of my non-PFC charger, I would think it
> should be fine. Correct?
Yes, I don't think you will have any problems with any normal solid
state relay or charger. Note that if the charger has a big transformer,
you want to use one of the NON-zero crossing solid state relays. A
zero-crossing solid-state-relay will be switching at the PEAK current
point for a transformer-input charger, which would maximize stress on
the relay.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> I have about 80 Toshiba 15 VDC, 2 amp AC Adapters (PA2411U.) They are
>> 100 to 240 VAC input, 50/60 Hz.
>
>Very interesting, Bill! But can you provide a few more details?
>
>Are they switchers, or linear power supplies?
<snip>
They are switchers.
<snip>
>Do you know if the input is strictly AC, or will it work on DC? If it
>works on DC, it could be used to power an E-meter, or for battery
>balancing.
<snip>
Yes, the above two applications would really be great. You tell me if
you think they can be used at D.C. :-) I took one apart, and reversed
part of the schematic. I'll try to post it somewhere, as well as pics
of the insides.
Starts off with a 3A, 250V glass fuse, then a 3.15A, 250V ceramic fuse,
with slots routed in the PCB between the leads. Interesting, don't know
why two different fuses in seriese. There is a 0.33uF, 250V ac cap across
the lines. Then through three inductors, some more caps, and a diode
bridge. Then a 400VDC, 100uF cap.
It looks like it would run with a DC input, but how much DC would you put
on a cap rated for 250VAC? I don't think the inductors would have a
problem with DC, but my guess is the cores will saturate at some level of
DC current, and not be as much of an inductor anymore. Also, I don't
think I'd trust those fuses at DC, either. If you put an external DC
rated fuse, that should handle the fuse situation.
There are some small caps that I can only assume are for line filtering.
For my own education (which is why I take things apart) I'd like to
know what they do. I'll ask again when I get time to post pictures/sch.
Thanks for your time,
- Steven Ciciora
P.S. if anyone has a Toshiba laptop, Bill has too many external chargers
(where these power supplies came from), and tons of external floppy
drives. Might be able to con him out of a LiIon battery or two, but the
batteries are why he bought this lot in the first place.
--- End Message ---
