EV Digest 2464
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Affordable AC Finesse vs Bargain DC Guts (was Amps Volts-Kostov)
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: 1kW Hydrogen Fuel Cell $5995
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) HOV stickers : Access OK
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EDISON DISALLOWS CONDUCTIVE CHARGING ON EV TOU METERS!
by Alan Batie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Perfect High-Dollar EV
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Perfect High-Dollar EV
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Buildable Perfect EV was Perfect High-Dollar EV
by "Chad Peddy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) EDISON DISS
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Perfect High-Dollar EV
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EDISON DISALLOWS CONDUCTIVE CHARGING ON EV TOU METERS!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Gobs of 15V, 2A supplies for sale
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Victor's PowerCheq Mystery SOLVED!!!!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) NEVs, etc.
by Nick Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV digest 2463
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Gobs of 15V, 2A supplies for sale
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) 120V on a Sparrow
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Selectria Sunrise? the Perfect High-Dollar EV could be built.
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 120V on a Sparrow
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 120V on a Sparrow
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: OT: Bumper Stickers...
by josh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: 120V on a Sparrow
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) EV Decals/Graphics
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) EV Fiat Spider
by "cox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: EV Decals/Graphics
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: HOV stickers : Access OK
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: Selectria Sunrise? the Perfect High-Dollar EV could be built.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: EV Decals/Graphics
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Victor wrote:
> >Can I do something (other than giving it away :-)) to make it happen?
>From Neon:
> >You have made AC much more affordable, thank you! But at *killer* AC performance
> levels are
> >still not that affordable, sorry :- (....find an AC system with 187kW of power for
> $6000
I echo Neon's compliments to Victor for his excellent street-affordable AC drive
systems....However.....he's up against .6 MEGAWATTS! That's right folks, that's the
level
of power the latest 'Zilla can crank out!
>From Neon:
> But its really hard to beat a $2500 Raptor1200 and a $1600 ADC 9 inch
> motor when you want to rapidly depart.
Yes, rapidly depart is exactly what you get with stout AGM batteries backing up a 1200
amp
Raptor, ADC 9 inch (or Warp 9 inch) in a light EV! The Optimas in Blue Meanie (the
fresh
set) sag to just 135V at full tilt with the 1000 amp hi-pro version Emeter blanking
out at
1021 amps ...let's be conservative and call it 1100 amps @ 135V...that's a real 148.5
kw!!! When you stuff a conservative 135 HP and 300 ft. lbs. of torque into a 2000-2500
lb.
car, it MOVES, especially in the 0-60 department. Where's the similarly priced AC
system
that can deliver this level of combined HP and especially torque, out of just 13, 12V
batteries for, including the cost of batteries (figuring $125 each per Optima),
$5725? An
AC system that will match it, will probably need a bunch more Optimas, say 28 of them
at
336V to hit this level...I'm talking about ~500 amps from ~300V delivered 'under load'
voltage from a sagged string of 28 Optimas...that's $3500 just for the batteries to run
it, leaving just $2200 for the inverter and motor.
On the other hand....While the killer 156V, 1200 amp, DC system has BIG off the line
torque and great power levels, it's also got terminal melting, contactor welding,
battery
draining capabilities, too. I have got this part worked out to where I have no
problems at
all, but the potential is definitely there. There's also the fact that just 13 Optimas,
even in a small light car, won't get you too many miles per charge...fun miles, OH
YEAH,
but not so cool if you want something more than 30 miles of commuting power (based on
mid point recharging and not wanting to drain the pack down each day)
Victor's higher voltage AC systems, while delivering less HP and way less torque
compared
to the above, still deliver a good amount of power, and does it with finesse. The
problem
is, that to get this power, you've got to pack more than twice the weight in batteries.
Those extra 15 Optimas add nearly 700 lbs. of weight to the car...it's no longer a
light
car, and there goes that killer power to weight ratio. At 250-300 amp max levels, the
NiZN
batteries can be used, but you'll need a lot of them. In any event, using either
Optimas,
Hawkers, or super long range (energy density) NiZN, you get great drivability and
improved
efficiency, dramatically more usable range per charge, plus reg. to boot!
For now, when it comes to balls-out 0-60 thrust, AC's got a tough act to beat when
pitted
against a good 'ol high amp'n DC system in a light car, especially when it comes to
dollar's spent vs tires shredded!
See Ya.......John Wayland
156V 1200 amp, single motor, 4 sp, 3:90 final drive, 2340 lb. '72 Datsun 1200 sedan
(the
Raptor 1200 fits, doesn't it?) daily driver
336V 1400 amp, twin motor, direct drive, 4:54 final drive, under-2000 lb. '72 Datsun
1200
sedan for those excessive moments
Revitalized project back on the front burner...'66 Datsun minitruck
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> All well and good. However the model that makes money or profit is the one
> based on gasoline. It worked and the next system will include products that
> use the system be it hydrogen or whatever. At least that is what the big
> companies want. An electric car and PV gets you out of the system. I like
> that idea. I still think people in general feel uneasy about fuel in the
> form of electricity. They don't understand storage concepts. Now wouldn't
> it be nice to get a Rudman Zeropoint Free energy machine. (lol) Really
> takes you out of the system. To bad about stright jacket.... Lawrence
> Rhodes...
> ----- Original Message -----
Zero Point Charger.... I wish. I keep breaking my load banks this
evening. I can yank the 120 volt grid down to 100 volts... then the PCs
complain and it gets REAL dim in here. I did get PFC50 #5 to suck 72
amps of 240..... or what ever it sagged to. I seam to have a healthy
power stage... I hope I don't break it....
Zero point Free energy.....They don't have Boxes from Powerex littering
the shop....
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It was pointed out to me that my HOV stickers have not
faded yet. "Faded yet!? These stickers fade?"
As it turns out over time the CA HOV sticker will fade.
Whether that is with the sunlight or because of strong
cleaners, I do not know.
I assume it is not that hard to get replacement CA HOV
stickers. Unless the CA DMV database has forgotten that
my conversion is rated "E", or the DMV has developed a
conversion EV prejudice.
Anyone else had their CA HOV stickers fade?
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above EV ascci art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, Dec 07, 2002 at 11:51:15PM -0500, David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
> I work in the media. And to be blunt, those stations' audience is so tiny
> it's unmeasureable.
I don't know that it's any more effective, but the Save Farscape crowd
got enough fan money together to air some late night ads with the idea
that the news media would pick up on the grassroots effort and put the
fact of it on the news, getting wide exposure.
--
Alan Batie ______ alan.batie.org Me
[EMAIL PROTECTED] \ / www.qrd.org The Triangle
PGPFP DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A \ / www.pgpi.com The Weird Numbers
27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 \/ spamassassin.taint.org NO SPAM!
We've got all the youth we need, how about a fountain of smart?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I need someone to collaborate with. I feel that this would be a good
upper-market-segment electric vehicle.
Take this body:
http://www.k1-styling.sk/attack.htm
Put in:
-AC drive system (Victors? Anybody else?)
-Thunder-sky Lithium-ions
-Superb sound-system :)
Market it to the "Me too" crowd, and sell a low volume. Then take
production money from that and work on a more economical consumer EV.
:) Ahhh, to be a dreamer.
-Sam Harper
Distortion Networks, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
678-758-4615
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 11:59 AM
Subject: Perfect High-Dollar EV
Hi Sam;
Thanks for the link! Cool car, maybe a Poor Man's T-Zero? With a
Waylandesque drive setup, like he was describing in a recent post, or go
more mild, Victor's AC setup, Evercells? A whole smorgishbord of options,
starting back from a Warp 9' Or their BAD ass racing motor, direct drive?
Car COULD come in about 2000lbs, maybe get away with direct drive? I guess
the T-Zero's AC stuff is propriety design? So you would hafta stick with DC,
as John sez. Affoordable, and enough kick for most people. Wouldn't be
holding traffic up at the stoplite launches, anymoreHeh! Heh! Weather it
could handle my 56 mile RT WITHOUT a booster charge, at work. Well, my led
sled needs it, too, in cold weather, anyhow.
In the dream, lottsa time, money dept, to buy an Attack Kit and attack
it as an EV from day one. Any takers? Do post some pix and story in a Seth
Murray style format, so we can see it happen.
> I need someone to collaborate with. I feel that this would be a good
> upper-market-segment electric vehicle.
> Take this body:
> http://www.k1-styling.sk/attack.htm
> Put in:
> -AC drive system (Victors? Anybody else?)
> -Thunder-sky Lithium-ions, aren't they still
Onobtanium, though?
> -Superb sound-system :) Wayland Signature!
> Market it to the "Me too" crowd, and sell a low volume. X EV-1 'ers
Folks that had to turn in their EV-1's at end of lease time,
withdrawl syntems They could be getting desparate!
Then take
> production money from that and work on a more economical consumer EV.
> :) Ahhh, to be a dreamer.
>
Rite ON Sam!
My two Watts worth
Bob
> -Sam Harper
> Distortion Networks, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 678-758-4615
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all;
Take a mid to late 80's 2 door S10 blazer, add EV Kit. Randy is great.
http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/S10Kit/S10-Kit.html
Then change the body
http://www.rodster.com/
Have the best EV.
Chad
p.s.
I want to go for a ride
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Harper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 8:59 AM
Subject: Perfect High-Dollar EV
> I need someone to collaborate with. I feel that this would be a good
> upper-market-segment electric vehicle.
> Take this body:
> http://www.k1-styling.sk/attack.htm
> Put in:
> -AC drive system (Victors? Anybody else?)
> -Thunder-sky Lithium-ions
> -Superb sound-system :)
> Market it to the "Me too" crowd, and sell a low volume. Then take
> production money from that and work on a more economical consumer EV.
> :) Ahhh, to be a dreamer.
>
> -Sam Harper
> Distortion Networks, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 678-758-4615
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh, you know...one of those communist stations on the left hand side of the
dial:)
Marv
> From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:55:45 -0500
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: EDISON DISALLOWS CONDUCTIVE CHARGING ON EV TOU METERS!
>
> On 7 Dec 2002 at 8:42, Marvin Campbell wrote:
>
>> Anybody else in the LA area up for helping produce some EV PSA's?
>
> Trouble is, oce you've produced them, who's going to air them?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sam Harper wrote:
> I need someone to collaborate with. I feel that this would be a good
> upper-market-segment electric vehicle. Take this body:
> http://www.k1-styling.sk/attack.htm
To perform really well as an EV, the vehicle really needs to be designed
from the ground up to be an EV. Trying to convert an ICE car into an EV
is always challenging. The smaller the car, the worse the problems get.
A really small, highly stylized car like this one probably has no space
for the batteries, and no considerations for an electric drive train. It
was probably a challenge just to fit the normal ICE parts into it!
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Coate wrote:
> Rather then trying to get major networks to show something, what if
> we produced a variety of options (video, voice, and print) for local
> EVers and EVA chapters to give to their local access stations,
> college radio stations, etc?
These lay the groundwork, but we need some really good "bait" to attract
and hook the media and public to get them to pay attention in the first
place.
Here's what we are doing this year with our BEST program. (BEST is a
grassroots organization that goes into 4th-6th grade classrooms to teach
kids about math, science, and engineering by building electric cars.
(For details about BEST, see http://www.bestoutreach.org).
Dean Kaman and his Segway made national news last year, with their
2-wheeled vehicle that is supposed to revolutionize the transportation
industry. He spent millions of dollars, and lobbied every state
legislature to pass special laws making the Segway legal to ride
anywhere pedestrians can walk. At last count 40 states have passed these
laws.
Here in Minnesota, the law says a "2-wheeled, non-tandem,
self-balancing" vehicle can be ridden anywhere a pedestrian can go (on
sidewalks, bike trails, in malls, city streets, etc.) with no driver age
limit, no helmet, no license, and no vehicle registration.
Naturally, the law can't mention the Segway by name, but was written to
exclude all other vehicles.
So we gave our kids a challenge. Design a vehicle that meets these legal
requirements. If you can, the law says you can ride it anywhere, even
places where bikes, skateboards, or rollerblades are banned. Boy, did
THAT motivate them!
Roughly a dozen ideas, and half a dozen prototypes have been devised so
far. It *is* possible to make a "2-wheel, non-tandem, self-balancing"
vehicle without all of the Segway's exotic technology and computers!
Kamen says he spent $100 million to develop the Segway, and the last
price I've seen quoted was $5000 each. Our kids are doing it with a $100
budget!
In past years, the press has essentially ignored us. "Kids build
electric go-kart" can't compete with wars, murders, and political sound
biting. But how about "Kids build $100 million Segway for $100!"?
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have about 80 Toshiba 15 VDC, 2 amp AC Adapters (PA2411U.) They are
> 100 to 240 VAC input, 50/60 Hz.
Very interesting, Bill! But can you provide a few more details?
Are they switchers, or linear power supplies? What are the dimensions
and weight? Linear supplies would have a big 60 Hz transformer, and be
larger and heavier.
I suspect that many of us would like to use them for battery charging.
Do they work for this? Many small switchers will just shut down if you
exceed their current rating. What we want is one that has current
limiting; it keeps delivering its 2 amps into any voltage 15v or less.
I.e. will it charge a dead 10.5v battery at 2 amps?
Do you know if the input is strictly AC, or will it work on DC? If it
works on DC, it could be used to power an E-meter, or for battery
balancing.
Are they open-frame (ventilation holes), or sealed? I.e. usable outdoors
where it might get splashed on, or strictly for indoor "bench" use?
Is the output voltage regulated? Is there a way to adjust the output
voltage?
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The PowerCheq units work fine if you connect them directly to the
> battery without sharing wires. Don't share wires and they work OK.
> Share wires and all bets are off.
If I were designing it (with 20/20 hindsight :-) I'd realize that many
battery boxes are completely closed, so you can't see the Powercheq
indicator lights. So, people are going to mount them outside the battery
box with long wires. And it is only natural to want to run one wire to
each inter-battery jumper, not two.
At 2 amps, a 10 foot piece of #14 wire has a voltage drop of 10ft x 2a x
0.0025 ohms = 0.05 volts. It should be possible to design the Powercheqs
with enough hysteresis to tolerate this.
> Each module runs independently. It is not a central system. Module
> A has no idea what module B is doing. If the wiring is separate,
> they don't interfere with each other.
Yes, they are independent. However, even with separate wires, when one
module turns on, it alters the voltages of the two batteries it is
connected to. This in turn affects two other modules (one up, and one
down the string) which are monitoring the same batteries.
Plus, any balancing system has to cope with batteries that are being
loaded or charged independently of the balancing system. These loads may
not all be in series, and may not affect all batteries equally.
>> [Rudman regulators synchronizing] isn't necessarily a fatal flaw.
>> While it looks weird, I didn't see that it actually caused any
>> imbalance problems. A battery isn't going to blink its regulator
>> until it is essentially at the threshold anyway.
> Actually, it is a big problem. As you said earlier, 0.1 volt is a
> big deal in terms of SOC. When a reg turns on, it humps as much as
> 7 amps through the wiring (and the fuse.) This can be a half a volt
> or more on the wire. Regulation is trashed.
It can be if the wires are long and the external loads are heavy. But it
is not a problem with the stock 2amp loads and short wires. When the
Rudman regulator's turn-on/turn-off voltage hysteresis is larger than
the voltage drop caused by wiring and resistors, it seems to work OK.
> What is also a problem with common wiring is safety. You have to
> consider what happens if a module (or regulator) shorts out. It pops
> a fuse and now twice the voltage is on the adjacent regulator. It
> shorts out and blows a fuse and now THREE times the voltage is on
> the adjacent regulator. They go like firecrackers when you open up
> a battery.
Yes, that is a problem! The right place for the fuse is in series with
each regulator, not in the common wire to two of them. But this goes
against having a fuse near the battery if you have only one wire.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>they need the full 35 mile range. A positive thing I see about the GEM or
>Fords THINK is getting massive amounts of small, inefficient, non-smoged,
>polluting golf carts out of commission.
>
>Moving from many smog sources to one efficient power plant is a good thing.
>
>Chad
>
When we had our July NBEAA meeting at Smith's Golf Cars
in Rohnert Park, (see http://geocities.com/nbeaa/pastmeetings.htm)
Ed Smith showed me the map of non-compliance areas in CA
where you can no longer sell gas-powered golf carts - it covered
a large proportion of the state. Soon, with tightening regs, he
figures it will cover almost the entire state...
I think we have to support all forms of electric transportation,
including scooters, NEVs, City EVs, etc. As more and more forms
of transportation make the shift to electric, the ICE engine will
be more and more marginalized. If we are to compete with the
negativity of the large auto manufacturers I think this sort
of strategy is a significant part of our arsenal. Once electric
transportation rules the golf course, and airport ground-support
equipment, resorts, gated communities, retirement communities
and kids scooters, not to mention trains, I'd have thought
the fight to get freeway capable EVs widely adopted would be
somewhat easier. I realise that NEVs are being used by
the big manufacturers to score CARB points and create a
negative image of EVs but there are people buying them
because they "do the job" and are loving them for all the
reasons we love our freeway-capable EVs. In fact the right tool
for the job is what it's all about, isn't it? I'm reminded of
that fact every time we park our Th!nk City next to a monster
in the parking lot.
Happy EV'ing,
Nick
Dr Nick Carter,
Owner, npc Imaging,
2228 Magowan Dr.,
Santa Rosa, CA 95405
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel/fax: +1 (707) 573 9361
http://www.npcimaging.com
Th!nk City EV driver (over 8,300 miles on our car) &
President, North Bay Chapter, Electric Auto Association
"Spare the air every day - drive electric!"
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They can be produced cheaply via DV.
If we can make them funny people will be much more receptive.
Gags and goofs always work better than just calling someone SATAN.
I'm thinking along the lines of showing the unsuspecting SUV driver blithely
pumps the gallonage into his behemoth, the camera pans over to show money
flying out the back of the pump into the back of a pickup with a Saddam
lookalike at the wheel. Simple. Goofy. Something general public can "get".
Marv
> From: Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 18:30:18 -0500
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: EDISON DISALLOWS CONDUCTIVE CHARGING ON EV TOU METERS!
>
> David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
>> On 7 Dec 2002 at 8:42, Marvin Campbell wrote:
>>> Anybody else in the LA area up for helping produce some EV PSA's?
>>
>> Trouble is, once you've produced them, who's going to air them?
>
> Ted W., who originally converted the truck I now have, gave me a copy of
> a video that made the rounds at his local cable access TV channel in
> Connecticut. It included interviews with himself and Jack Gretta and
> footage of the S-10 and Jack's MG.
>
> Rather then trying to get major networks to show something, what if
> produced a variety of options (video, voice, and print) for local EVers
> and EVA chapters to give to their local access stations, college radio
> stations, etc.? For the college stations, I know that at the smaller
> ones at least pretty much every PSA mailed in makes it into the Big
> Notebook and then the DJs just pick some that they like at the moment of
> need, so admittedly hit or miss (and admittedly pirate radio stations
> have more transmitter power than some of these college stations). But
> maybe its a start.
>
> _________
> Jim Coate
> 1992 Chevy S10
> 1970's Elec-Trak
> http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:11 PM 12/8/02, you wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have about 80 Toshiba 15 VDC, 2 amp AC Adapters (PA2411U.) They are
> 100 to 240 VAC input, 50/60 Hz.
Very interesting, Bill! But can you provide a few more details?
Here is one on EBay:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2077568873>
I have some model PA2438U that are functionally identical, but a
touch more compact. Here is one on EBay:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2076097282>
Are they switchers, or linear power supplies?
They look like switchers, but I could be wrong.
What are the dimensions
and weight? Linear supplies would have a big 60 Hz transformer, and be
larger and heavier.
PA2411U Approximately 6" x 2 3/4" x 1 1/4" about a pound. I have a lot of
these.
PA2438U Approximately 5" x 2 1/2" x 1" about 3/4 pound. I have some of these.
Two prong detachable shaver-type input cord. Five foot
non-detachable output cord with round hollow connector.
I suspect that many of us would like to use them for battery charging.
Do they work for this? Many small switchers will just shut down if you
exceed their current rating. What we want is one that has current
limiting; it keeps delivering its 2 amps into any voltage 15v or less.
They appear to do this. They are designed to charge laptop
batteries, so they seem to have all the features you would need to charge
batteries in general. They seem to work pretty well on AGM batteries. They
would be good for modular top off on a full-sized EV or an over-night
charger on a bike or small moped. Might be useful to keep your accessory
battery topped up while your EV is plugged in. (Keep the E-Meter from
killing it.)
Since it will hold the battery at 15 volts, you would not want to
leave it hooked up more than a day after the charge is finished. If you
wanted to keep it connected for many days, you should install a series
diode (or two) to keep the voltage at or slightly below about 14 volts, or
put it on a timer so it shuts off several hours after the charge is
complete. You wouldn't want to hold an AGM at 15 volts for many days on end.
I.e. will it charge a dead 10.5v battery at 2 amps?
Yes.
I loaded a Hawker G12V120W15H battery down to 9 volts with a
battery load tester while the supply was attached.
The PA2411U put out 2.8 amps when loaded down to 9 volts and
appeared current limited. The smaller PA2438U put out 2.2 amps when loaded
down to 9 volts and also appeared current limited. This is the only
electrical difference between the models.
Below 14.75 volts, the current stayed above 2 amps. As the battery
voltage rose further, the current tapered off. At 14.99 Volts, the current
drops below an amp. To a dead short, the supply would pulse on and off.
Do you know if the input is strictly AC, or will it work on DC?
I was not in the mood for fireworks, so I didn't try this. If you
are seriously interested in buying one or more of these supplies, I will
connect the input up to DC at the voltage range of interest and see what
happens. Otherwise, my curiosity will remain unindulged. :^)
Are they open-frame (ventilation holes), or sealed? I.e. usable outdoors
where it might get splashed on, or strictly for indoor "bench" use?
There are no visible vent holes or slits. The exterior of the unit
does not look hermetic or potted. I'd bet it would stand a splash of water
with no problem, but it does not look like it would withstand immersion.
Is the output voltage regulated?
Open-circuit voltage is 15.2 volts.
Is there a way to adjust the output
voltage?
Not without cracking the case open. If you seriously need to know
and are interested in buying a few, I'll peel one open and see if there is
an adjustment trim pot. If you need less voltage, the simple way is to put
a diode in series. :^)
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I did an experiment today. Since it's so hard to find alternative
batteries that fit, and which will make a 156V pack, I wanted to try the
Sparrow with 120V. So I disconnected 3 batteries and took it for a short
drive. Acceleration is ok (heck, it's snappy compared to my diesel
Mercedes!) and it can cruise at 60MPH with no problem. Takes 95A or so to
run at 60MPH, Emeter displayed 119V during that test.
With the 156V pack, it was usually around 65A to go 60mph.
So, it would seem a Sparrow would be quite useable with a 120V pack, as
long as the pack doesn't sag too badly. (Plus, I'd probably need to adjust
the low-voltage cutout on the Raptor settings a bit.)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
Of all the EV's built the Sunrise seems to be
the best one if it can be put into production.
To that end I've been talking to the factory
about it and they say it will cost $55,000 in a 100
lot EV run.
The question, is there a market for it at that
price? I think it's too high but many may not.
It would use ni-cads and have a 150+ mile range
and built top of the line.
With my experience in low volume construction
technics I believe it can be done for less. But that's
the $ that they say would be needed.
The tooling is ready to start at one of the
best composite companies in the US, they just need to
know how many and most of the other parts are/ were in
production for other vehicles.
Of course it will use Solectria AC drives, ect.
Other than using ni-cads it would be just like the
prototypes.
They other option is to buy the tooling and
build it as an almost complete kit car using
remanufactured car parts where new is too expensive.
That could be done for about $30,000 were the buyer
bolts in the motor and batteries included or pays
someone to do it.
So is there any interest? Is there a market for
100 of them? A market for gliders?
Jerry Dycus
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
75 amps DC at 60 mph sounds about right. But with three less
batteries, you will have 3/4 the range.
I assume that you are trying a 120VDC pack because you are
looking at replacing your optima pack with some other 12V
batteries (ie: group 27 deep cycle). Because the Sparrow
EV was designed to only use optimas, using other batteries
means less of them to get them to fit (hence a lower pack
voltage).
Obviously you know you can not use the on-board 156 VDC Zivan
NG3 charger. Some might think they can just turn it down, but
it is my understanding that a 144 VDC NG3 is used for 132 to
156 VDC packs (adjusted down or up to match). So, it is not
designed to operate properly on a 120 VDC pack.
In the short term you could use a bad boy charger (rectified
AC line), using a switchable hi - lo / full-wave - half-wave
design. But I don't recommend bad boy chargers for permanent
use. They should only be for emergency / short-term use. You
have to be careful when charging Optimas with a bad boy.
If you remove some of the batteries from the front you might
be able to mount a PFC-20 charger under the hood. Then you
would have a 120 to 240 VAC charging ability. With an AVCON
adaptor (available on http://eaaev.org merchandise) you
would have access to the public AVCON charging.
Let us know what type of battery you plan to use, how you
plan to lay them out, and what charging are you going to use.
If all works out well, you may want to document it on a web
site for other Sparrownauts to consider.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above EV ascci art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> So, it would seem a Sparrow would be quite useable with a 120V pack, as
> long as the pack doesn't sag too badly. (Plus, I'd probably need to adjust
> the low-voltage cutout on the Raptor settings a bit.)
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
You can't. Don't worry about it. They go to sleep at under 36 volts...
Got the data file.
Damon specs to 48 volts, Joe and I have running data down to 250 amps at
27 volts, then the contactor fell out.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 07 Dec 2002 22:36:19 -0600, you wrote:
>> [snickers] or the SUV with the bumper sticker, 'I'm
>> supporting terrorism - ask me how!'.
>
>I have some of these stickers (I had a batch of 100 custom
>made), and will send a few to anyone who will _use_ them
>free of charge.
>
>Send SASE to me at:
>1633 Etna Street
>Saint Paul, MN 55106
>
I also have some, also paid for out of pocket, just because, and would
also send them to anyone free, or for a couple dollars to compensate
my trouble if you want. Mine say
Boycott OPEC
Use Electric Fuel
They're neither large nor terribly attractive but they're ok.
jl
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
>
> John,
>
> 75 amps DC at 60 mph sounds about right. But with three less
> batteries, you will have 3/4 the range.
>
> I assume that you are trying a 120VDC pack because you are
> looking at replacing your optima pack with some other 12V
> batteries (ie: group 27 deep cycle). Because the Sparrow
> EV was designed to only use optimas, using other batteries
> means less of them to get them to fit (hence a lower pack
> voltage).
>
> Obviously you know you can not use the on-board 156 VDC Zivan
> NG3 charger. Some might think they can just turn it down, but
> it is my understanding that a 144 VDC NG3 is used for 132 to
> 156 VDC packs (adjusted down or up to match). So, it is not
> designed to operate properly on a 120 VDC pack.
>
>
Ummm Bruce...Ya know that old #20 that kept you in PFC land last
summer???? Well John Lussmeyer walked over and got it last week. He's
PFC20 locked and loaded now.
Also in the Sparrow world. Any battery voltage above about 96 and less
than about 170 will do just fine on the DCP Raptors. Any less and your
Sparrow won't get up and go very good. But 1200 amps of 96 can be a
quite respectable kick in the Butt!! So this gives you all LOTS of
voltage combinations to try.
Of course a PFC??? lets you play with them all without having to buy a
new charger every time a change occurs.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think this is the ultimate grassroots campaign.
My EVcort is bare. No-one even notices it's electric.
Does anyone know where to get some kind of non-cheesy "declarative
art/graphics" to plaster the car with?
And a big bumpersticker that says something like:
BURNIN' GAS? WELL KISS MY *SS!
OK, maybe not quite that declarative.
I'm thinking of something really on the edge. Edgy, yeah. That's good.
Something like "electric" going down the side of the car.
But I'm no graphics artist. Leave it to me and the letters will be in
"courier" font.
> From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:51:15 -0500
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: EDISON DISALLOWS CONDUCTIVE CHARGING ON EV TOU METERS!
>
> I think that plastering your EV with decals and driving it all over town,
> handing out flyers, would have a greater effect. If nothing else, it proves
> conclusively that EVs work. And it's free, except for the relatively small
> cost of printing the decals and flyers.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Guys
I am new to the list and have really enjoyed reading.
I have been watching the EV's for sale and found this one for $4,000
http://cliquot.malamutes.com/fiat_page.htm.
I am a new EV'er and wanted to get your view on this car.
It has been sitting up for a year, so the 20 batteries are dead, right.
Any hope of a pulse mode battery device bringing them back to life ?
And the range stated of 40 miles seems low for 20 Optima's .,
Thanks
Trotman Simpson
Just a computer Geek interested in becoming an EV geek
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marvin wrote:
My EVcort is bare. No-one even notices it's electric.
Does anyone know where to get some kind of non-cheesy "declarative
art/graphics" to plaster the car with?
How about some chrome emblems that simply say "ELECTRIC"? Check out:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/signs.html
They are made from plastic with a chrome like finish and look very
OEM. These aren't decals but 3D logos similar to the factory emblems on
most cars. They have been known to confuse folks into thinking conversions
were actually factory built.
I have been selling them for about two years now. Just a few a month but
it pays for my other EV webpage stuff like the EV Album and the EV Tradin'
Post.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My stickers faded, mostly on the sides. After a little over two years, the
right side was almost faded away. I think it's mostly from car washing.
-Ed Thorpe
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 11:21 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: HOV stickers : Access OK
It was pointed out to me that my HOV stickers have not
faded yet. "Faded yet!? These stickers fade?"
As it turns out over time the CA HOV sticker will fade.
Whether that is with the sunlight or because of strong
cleaners, I do not know.
I assume it is not that hard to get replacement CA HOV
stickers. Unless the CA DMV database has forgotten that
my conversion is rated "E", or the DMV has developed a
conversion EV prejudice.
Anyone else had their CA HOV stickers fade?
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above EV ascci art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jerry dycus wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> Of all the EV's built the Sunrise seems to be
> the best one if it can be put into production.
> To that end I've been talking to the factory
> about it and they say it will cost $55,000 in a 100
> lot EV run.
> The question, is there a market for it at that
> price? I think it's too high but many may not.
> It would use ni-cads and have a 150+ mile range
> and built top of the line.
> With my experience in low volume construction
> technics I believe it can be done for less. But that's
> the $ that they say would be needed.
> The tooling is ready to start at one of the
> best composite companies in the US, they just need to
> know how many and most of the other parts are/ were in
> production for other vehicles.
> Of course it will use Solectria AC drives, ect.
> Other than using ni-cads it would be just like the
> prototypes.
> They other option is to buy the tooling and
> build it as an almost complete kit car using
> remanufactured car parts where new is too expensive.
> That could be done for about $30,000 were the buyer
> bolts in the motor and batteries included or pays
> someone to do it.
> So is there any interest? Is there a market for
> 100 of them? A market for gliders?
$55,000 for a Sunrise sounds like an incredible deal. I would think they
could sell 100 in a single day if they presented this option to the
present GM EV1 owners who will soon lose their EVs.
Perhaps we should ask Solectria to write up a serious proposal?
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I bought the TEVan from Mike he threw in several 'Electric'
emblems. I gave one to the guy that bought my 1984 Electric Fiero.
Mike already plastered a few on the TEVan even though it already said
'electric'
from the factory (Chrysler made these vans in the mid 90's and I worked
on the
motor control and charger). Anyhow, these are pretty cool 3D emblems
and I've put
one on my golf cart and Elec-Trak. Mike isn't making any money
(probably losing some)
Don't settle for a cheesy bumper sticker, get the real thing, email Mike.
Rod
www.qsl.net/w8rnyh
Mike Chancey wrote:
Marvin wrote:
My EVcort is bare. No-one even notices it's electric.
Does anyone know where to get some kind of non-cheesy "declarative
art/graphics" to plaster the car with?
How about some chrome emblems that simply say "ELECTRIC"? Check out:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/signs.html
They are made from plastic with a chrome like finish and look very
OEM. These aren't decals but 3D logos similar to the factory emblems
on most cars. They have been known to confuse folks into thinking
conversions were actually factory built.
I have been selling them for about two years now. Just a few a month
but it pays for my other EV webpage stuff like the EV Album and the EV
Tradin' Post.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
