EV Digest 4570
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Ampabout ... Auto Body Shop
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Auto-determination of AC current available
by Mike Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Auto-determination of AC current available
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Ampabout ... Auto Body Shop
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Auto-determination of AC current available
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Powering refridgerator off of HV traction pack
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: El Chopper
by reb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Powering refridgerator off of HV traction pack
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: factory S-10 charging woes
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re:2 motors . field weakening. Efficiency, ADC 5.5" RE: John's GT-6
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Enthusiastic newby looking for good advice
by Chip Sandy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Powering refridgerator off of HV traction pack
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Powering refridgerator off of HV traction pack
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV-200 Resistor for 144v system
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EVLN(Behind the wheel of a solar race EV)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 80v AC 3 phase EV Traction Motors and low voltage AC controllers
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: El Chopper
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Enthusiastic newby looking for good advice
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: 80v AC 3 phase EV Traction Motors and low voltage AC controllers
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: El Chopper
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Got my EV Grin :-)
by "Jeff Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Got my EV Grin :-)
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Got my EV Grin :-)
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: factory S-10 charging woes
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Auto-determination of AC current available
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: EV-200 Resistor for 144v system
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Auto-determination of AC current available
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I have been preparing, saving up little by little to take my EV in
for some needed body work. I have rust that needs to be addressed
before it gets to be bad problem. And I can not show off an EV that
looks bad.
The window gaskets have shrunk with age. In two places the gasket
allowed water to get in under the paint.
I found a local auto body shop that will do the work in my price
range.
I will have the front windshield and rear passenger window removed
so that rust can be worked on. The shop said they will keep my
window-less EV inside while it is being worked on. Once the
body work and painting is done, the windows will be replaced.
Before I dropped it off I showed them how easy it is to drive.
They will need to drive the EV in and out of the shop.
As one can see on my web site http://brucedp.150m.com/blazer/
Since 1992 I have had two small 12V solar panels in the hood
keeping my 12V aux charged.
When Solar Electric (now defunct) installed the solar panels, they
just cut the hood and dropped them in. Now there is serious
rust around those rough cut edges.
I will have the hood replaced and painted as well. I won't be
putting the solar panels back in the hood. It will be just a
regular S-10 Blazer hood painted white to match the vehicle.
In the 1990's the solar industry needed the help to promote solar.
Today, Solar is going quite well, and having two dinky 12V panels
in my hood does more to confuse people than to promote solar. The
public thinks my whole EV runs off those two small PVs, and are
disappointed when I corrected them that it is not.
After work, I turned in my EV for this work and walked the 3 miles
home. The next day I got up early and bicycled the 2.5 into
work. I will be using my bicycle to and from work while my EV is
in the shop.
I hope to have my EV back on line soon, and pretty enough for the
Silicon Valley Rally http://eaasv.org/ Sept 25 at Palo Alto HS.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My father-in-law has a motor home which has on on-board inverter with
battery pack. According to him, he can plug it in to charge the batteries
and it determines if it has a 30A or 50A feed, and it turns different
receptacles in the coach on and off to maintain this current limit so you
don't blow a breaker (ie if the dryer is on, it will shut off some other
outlets or something).
Is this accurate? If so, it seems like there would be a potential for an EV
charger to determine somehow what is available to it without blowing a
breaker. This would come in handy if you're doing an EV road trip and need
to hook in someplace...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Normally the way it is done - the outlet must be equipped with a pilot
signal detected by a charger and it tells the charger about power level.
But it works for dedicated outlet only.
If you have, asy, 4 240VAC 50A outlets in home on common circuit
protected by the common (say, 100A) breaker, there is no way a
charger can know if one or more 240V appliance is also plugged
in and consumes power.
If your electric range consumes 40A and the dryer another 30A,
a pluggen in charger can only consume another 30A before common
100A breaker trips. Unpluf the dryer and another 30A become available,
but there is no signal about it to the charger.
So it may be accurate that this motorhome is equipped with something
with ability to detect
that this is 50A outlet it is plugged into, but there is no [easy]
way to know if 40A already being concumed by something else on the
same circuit, so the motor home must not consume more than 10A to avoid
tripping.
If the feeds and breakers are individual per outlet, this is
different story. But still, some sort of pilot signal needed -
just simple scrambling the prongs arrangements so you can't
plug into the wrong rating outlet is not a solution.
Victor
Mike Barber wrote:
My father-in-law has a motor home which has on on-board inverter with
battery pack. According to him, he can plug it in to charge the batteries
and it determines if it has a 30A or 50A feed, and it turns different
receptacles in the coach on and off to maintain this current limit so you
don't blow a breaker (ie if the dryer is on, it will shut off some other
outlets or something).
Is this accurate? If so, it seems like there would be a potential for an EV
charger to determine somehow what is available to it without blowing a
breaker. This would come in handy if you're doing an EV road trip and need
to hook in someplace...
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
bruce parmenter wrote:
> The public thinks my whole EV runs off those two small PVs
Exactly. That's also similar to the situation with "nuclear power".
Ask any non technical person about nuclear power. I'm nearly willing
to bet money that the person in question will explain or be under the
impression that somehow the nuclear reaction is what actually makes
the electricity. When the reality is all it does is heat the water to
make the steam to drive the steam turbine(s)... Common
misconceptions..
> and are disappointed when I corrected them that it is not.
That's been my experience in regards to the so called "solar cars".
The battery aspect never gets mentioned...
More like solar powered battery charger..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's true but that's not all the story. 30 amp service is 120 volts
just like a wall outlet but with a different connector. 50 amp
service is 50 amp 120/240 using a 4 wire range plug.
The energy control system detects whether the second leg of 120 is
available and shifts loads accordingly. Interestingly enough, the RV
does not take advantage of the 240 volts. It basically treats the
service as 100 amp, 120 volt service.
I certainly can't think of any method whereby one could detect the
branch circuit capacity.
John
On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 23:32:28 +0200, Mike Barber
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>My father-in-law has a motor home which has on on-board inverter with
>battery pack. According to him, he can plug it in to charge the batteries
>and it determines if it has a 30A or 50A feed, and it turns different
>receptacles in the coach on and off to maintain this current limit so you
>don't blow a breaker (ie if the dryer is on, it will shut off some other
>outlets or something).
>
>Is this accurate? If so, it seems like there would be a potential for an EV
>charger to determine somehow what is available to it without blowing a
>breaker. This would come in handy if you're doing an EV road trip and need
>to hook in someplace...
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sam's Club has a 1500 watt inverter for $49. Quite nice. I have
several.
What I would do if I ever needed to run from my EV would be to move
the charger between 12 volt substrings as they run down. Then I'd
charge the whole string again using the high voltage EV charger and my
generator.
As a practical matter, since I have to run my commercial
refrigeration, the generator(s) will be on all the time but I HAVE
thought about the inverter and have the hardware built and available.
The setup consists of the inverter, a couple of lengths of 0 cable and
400 amp battery clips.
John
On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:00:28 -0700 (PDT), jerry dycus
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Bob and All,
>
>--- Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I was in So. Cal. not long ago, and they had
>> localized
>> outages. It got me thinking: What is to keep
>> someone
>> from disconnecting the Anderson connector of their
>> EV;
>> hooking it to a high voltage inverter, and powering
>> the fridge and a couple of lights in this situation?
>>
>> Anyone else have this up and working as a backup
>> power source?
>
> I ran my house off of my EV's for 3 days one time
>during the hurricanes last yr here in Fla.
> The easy way is running an inverter off your
>DC/DC that charges a 12v batt for peak loads. You
>sould be able to do your refridgerator, a couple
>lights, small TV or radio/stereo and a fan off a 35+
>amp DC/DC to a 1500 watt/2500wt peak inverter. Turn
>the fridges door heaters, auto defrost off if you can.
> I even ran my A/C some ;-))
> And inverters are rather cheap now at about $139
>or less for a 1500wt cont one at places like Pep
>Boy's, ect.
> HTH's,
> Jerry Dycus
>
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
>> ____
>> __/__|__\ __
>> =D-------/ - - \
>> 'O'-----'O'-'
>> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came
>> out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas
>> for your kids?
>>
>>
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________
>Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
>http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i bought a set of the plans
all basic stuff and well within the scope of most home builders
i wouldn't expect the bike to pull your arms off though
reb
Ken Albright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Has anyone built, ridden, owned an El Chopper? I'm
interested in completeness of plans, ease/difficulty
of construction, performance, reliability, and
driveability.
Thanks
Ken Albright
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
---------------------------------
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo!
Security Centre.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bob,
My EV has something like this, but works different than coming off directly off
the batteries.
I can set the motor to idle mode which runs about 500 RPM which draws about 4
amps no load.
This is turning my alternator-inverter which is a Delco 145 amp 12-15 VDC and a
120 VAC at 7 KW Model No 1117152. Has inverter taps equipped with a (field +),
(field -), and (trio) terminals for used with 120-volt, 60 HZ power inverter by
Dynamote Corportation which is design for this alternator.
Can provide 1200 watts of 12 VDC power and provide 120 AC at the same time.
The inverter is a Model B60-120 that has a output of 7200 watts at 120 VAC with
a surge capacity of 100 amps.
Has four 20 amps recepticles that are Circuit breaker for 25 amps each. I run
three electric heaters in my EV that total 2500 watts, one hot water heater
pump and a coolent pump for the Zilla.
When I lose power, all I have to do is turn off the house Main Circuit breaker
and plug in a extension cord with the female end going through a short adapter
and plugging into the inverter. Plug the other end into a receptacle which
back feed through a 20 amp circuit breaker in the main panel and out the
selected ON circuit breakers to the refridgerator, some lites and my TV. I got
to have the TV.
I did this one time. We don't have the power off here in the electric city for
more than a hour.
The maximum battery amps I pull at one time was about 25 amps. The motor
itself takes about 2 amps at no load.
Roland
The inverter has
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Bath<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:05 PM
Subject: Powering refridgerator off of HV traction pack
I was in So. Cal. not long ago, and they had localized
outages. It got me thinking: What is to keep someone
from disconnecting the Anderson connector of their EV;
hooking it to a high voltage inverter, and powering
the fridge and a couple of lights in this situation?
Anyone else have this up and working as a backup
power source?
Thanks,
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hm, crummy. Is it possible to hook a PC up to it and use the EV200.exe
software to lie to the Magnecharger a bit?
I'm not sure what model of MC the EV1 used. Mine is probably first
generation; it doesn't monitor all the batteries one at a time however
it does monitor temps.
Chris
Jim Coate wrote:
So after a couple of weeks traveling (and some fun meeting a few north
west EVers) (and falling 1000's of e-mails behind), I am back home and
find that my spiffy factory made 1998 Chevy S-10 truck isn't so happy. I
left it on the charger (Magne Charger) while gone so it could keep the
batteries cool and topped off. But it apparently spent much of the time
saying "check vehicle". The charger refuses to start; the truck doesn't
want to go either. Checking the error codes it seems to be that the
voltage for battery #11 is too low and because of (or in addition to?)
this it won't close the main contactor to start things up.
Anyone have any experience with these? It is the same drive system as in
the removed-from-existence EV1's. Dropping the battery pack is probably
quite an involved task. Ugh.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chris, Lee, and All,
I recently had to think about this for my new
EV so a inside view of my thinking may be worthwhile.
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chris Tromley wrote:
> > My understanding so far is that a direct drive
> single motor is
> > generally less efficient and will therefore
> deliver less range
> > than using a trans.
>
> Not quite. You'll note that *all* purpose-built EVs
> are direct drive,
> even those with series motors. Going with a fixed
> gear ratio requires a
> larger, more expensive motor -- but the cost and
> weight savings from
> eliminating the multi-speed transmission more than
> pays for it. And, the
> larger an electric motor, the more efficient it
> gets. So the larger
> motor with no transmission winds up being *more*
> efficient.
When possible, a single motor will be the best
way to go but other things can change that.
> > Using two motors with direct drive adds a new
> wrinkle. They are still
> > running at low rpm, but at only 1/2 load each.
> That has to improve
> > efficiency. I wonder if two direct drive motors
> are (generally) as
> > efficient as one with a trans?
This in my case was a factor plus the ability to
shed heat for very long cont duty driving of several
hrs a a time at 70 mph. This was needed as I intend to
use a gen for long distance, unlimited range.
Another factor was cost as it is cheaper to buy
2-6.7" A89 type motors than 1-8"/9" or a transmission
and about the same or less weight for the 2 motors at
50 lbs each.
Add to that I needed a large power range so for
low end torque with only 450 amp controller for
starting a 1400+ EV up a hill, ect, by putting the
motors in series gave me plenty of starting torque.
Yet in parallel gave me good top end power I needed to
cruise at 70 mph with reserve.
For a MC, an A89 will be plenty of power as my
1,000lb E woody uses a GE version, 100 amps/36vdc
rated Citi car motor, of it that does fine moving it
up to 60 mph. And I'd bet it cost less than 2- 5.5"
motors new.
I do 45mph in my GC transaxle 2.2hp, 36vdc rated
GE powered trike at 72vdc that weighs probably 850
lbs.
>
> For the special case of DC motors, having two motors
> allows for simple
> series/parallel operation to simplify your speed
> controller.
And cuts the cost of your controller quite a bit
if an E controller. With a contactor controller it's
not as much a problem.
On Mark's feild weakening question, I like only
about 1/4 weakening to keep heating down, eff up and
as we usually already overvoltage the motors, you
can't increase the rpm that much anyway so a 25% rpm
increase is usually enough.
As for 'resistor' size, I look at the field coil
wire size and use about 1/4 of it's circular area as a
starting point and adjust the length, starting at
about 1.5'/10-12gge to get the top speed you need.
When you add contact, terminal resistance you end up
about right for 6.7" size motors.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
> --
> Every act of conscious learning requires the
> willingness to suffer an
> injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young
> children, before they
> are aware of their own self-importance, learn so
> easily. - Thomas Szasz
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would like to thank all who responded to my post. Especially John
Westlund, it seems like you put alot of effort, time and research into
putting together an incredibly informative response which I thoroughly
enjoyed reading. I did follow the suggestion of loging my acceleration time
I did it simply by checking the seconds on my watch at the start of
acceleration, and again at 60. I know it probably isn't terribly acurate,
but it can't be too far off. Anyway, it seems I've grossly overestimated my
car's acceleration prowess. I thought I was doing it in around 9-11 sec. but
I didn't get anything better than 17 sec. today which is quick enough for
me. This was actually kind of relieving as I now know that I could more
easily reach more realistic and still satisfying performance goals, and
possibly get better range.
It seems a 12-15 second 0-60 time wiould not only be plausible, but quite a
satisfying change.
Thanks again for all of your help and advice. You guys know how to make a
newby feel welcome.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not sure what you're saying about moving "the charger".
If you try to run an inverter off one of the 12v batteries, it creates
an equalization problem that series chargers cannot fix. Either the
remaining batteries must be overcharged or the low battery will never
get fully charged and be the first to see a deep discharge when the
others are still well charged.
Danny
Neon John wrote:
Sam's Club has a 1500 watt inverter for $49. Quite nice. I have
several.
What I would do if I ever needed to run from my EV would be to move
the charger between 12 volt substrings as they run down. Then I'd
charge the whole string again using the high voltage EV charger and my
generator.
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not moving the charger, moving the inverter. I use 6 volt golf cart
batteries. If I happened to not discharge them all similarly then I'd
charge them 12 volts at a time with my smart chargers. I have
several. Unless they were badly out of sync I'd just let an
equalization cycle take care of things. Wet cells can take abuse that
would kill an AGM.
John
On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 20:11:34 -0500, Danny Miller
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I'm not sure what you're saying about moving "the charger".
>If you try to run an inverter off one of the 12v batteries, it creates
>an equalization problem that series chargers cannot fix. Either the
>remaining batteries must be overcharged or the low battery will never
>get fully charged and be the first to see a deep discharge when the
>others are still well charged.
>
>Danny
>
>Neon John wrote:
>
>>Sam's Club has a 1500 watt inverter for $49. Quite nice. I have
>>several.
>>
>>What I would do if I ever needed to run from my EV would be to move
>>the charger between 12 volt substrings as they run down. Then I'd
>>charge the whole string again using the high voltage EV charger and my
>>generator.
>>
>>John
>>
>>
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
> Switching a precharge resistor sounds like a good job for a mosfet of
> the appropriate voltage rating.
Except that a MOSFET is never really "off". There's a parasitic diode
across it that will still be present. Thus, you would need a second
MOSFET, or at least a blocking diode, in series. Without these, you'd
have trouble if the controller voltage was ever higher than the battery
pack voltage. This will happen when you turn the charger off so the pack
voltage suddenly drops; or if your controller can do regen.
You also need to be careful about the peak power that these MOSFETs have
to handle. If you slam them on too quickly or too hard, the peak current
and peak power dissipation is very high. If you turn them on too slowly,
the current is low enough but the power dissipation could require a
heatsink.
Interestingly enough, a old vacuum tube makes a good precharge resistor.
Use a rectifier with an isolated filament, like a 12X4. The 12v filament
is your "relay coil" -- energize it to enable precharge. The plate and
cathode are your precharge "resistor" -- they will carry several hundred
ma to precharge the controller, bringing it up to within 20-30 volts of
pack voltage.
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden wrote:
> I have no problem with that, as long as ^no^ other source of energy
> ever fuels the vehicle. But I can see how most people would expect
> a solar car to carry its PV cells along with it.
I believe the rules say that the solar cars must carry their own solar
panels. However, some teams have done interesting things with them, like
carrying folding solar panels that can be set up to add power while
parked.
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Roger,
I see a rather familiar looking charger on their website ;)
Steve
\
I have one of these chargers and was wondering if it would run off dc , like
150v , it looks like a switcher , is there a web site for them ./
the other steve
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 7:03 AM +1000 on 8/12/05, Nick 'Sharkey' Moore wrote:
[#] "Unsprung weight" should really be "Unsprung moment of inertia",
I think ... it's all about how quick the suspension can react.
That's certainly part of it, but not all. The total mass as relating
to the mass of the vehicle is important as well, since the impact of
a bump or dip will push against the suspended wheel which will then
push against the body mass of the vehicle. The lower the unsprung
mass in relation to the sprung mass, the less the body will move with
an impact (more mass means more inertia to absorb the movement). This
means a smoother ride and wheels that stay on the ground more.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<<<...I thought I was doing it in around 9-11 sec. but
I didn't get anything better than 17 sec. today which is quick enough for
me. This was actually kind of relieving as I now know that I could more
easily reach more realistic and still satisfying performance goals, and
possibly get better range.
It seems a 12-15 second 0-60 time wiould not only be plausible, but quite a
satisfying change.>>>>
What's even nicer about EV acceleration is the takeoff from zero - an EV "feels"
like it's twice as fast as the stopwatch says it is, at least in the first half
of the run. Getting subjective satisfaction can make you happier than any
objective numbers.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve,
I have one in my Tropica. www.delta-q.com I don't know about running on DC but
I'll be Roger does.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: STEVE CLUNN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 22:11:18 -0500
Subject: Re: 80v AC 3 phase EV Traction Motors and low voltage AC controllers
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Roger,
>
> I see a rather familiar looking charger on their website ;)
>
> Steve
> \
I have one of these chargers and was wondering if it would run off dc , like
150v , it looks like a switcher , is there a web site for them ./
the other steve
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2005-08-11, Michael Hurley wrote:
> At 7:03 AM +1000 on 8/12/05, Nick 'Sharkey' Moore wrote:
>
> >[#] "Unsprung weight" should really be "Unsprung moment of inertia",
> >I think ... it's all about how quick the suspension can react.
>
> That's certainly part of it, but not all. The total mass as relating
> to the mass of the vehicle is important as well, since the impact of
> a bump or dip will push against the suspended wheel which will then
> push against the body mass of the vehicle. The lower the unsprung
> mass in relation to the sprung mass, the less the body will move with
> an impact (more mass means more inertia to absorb the movement). This
> means a smoother ride and wheels that stay on the ground more.
Ah, well, I don't claim to be an expert ...
... anyone who _does_ want to thrash this one out should probably
join the MC-CHASSIS-DESIGN mailing list over at micapeak ...
http://micapeak.com/lists/MC-CHASSIS-DESIGN/
... where, ironically, they're talking about recumbent bicycles
right now :-).
-----sharks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good EVening to EVeryone out there!
I just wanted to let the world know that I now have a huge EV grin! I got
my E-10 running and charged last night at about midnight and so after work
and other stuff I finally got to take the truck out for a joy ride at about
9:45 PM. My wife came with on the maiden voyage. We had a ball! We drove
all over the neighborhood for about 20 minutes. Then my wife asked if she
could drive home! I knew I married her for a good reason. I just can't
imagine too many wives out there going out on the first test run much less
asking to drive it as well. Anyway, I have to break in the new batteries so
we could only go a short distance and call it a night. I burned off about 6
AH in a little over 8 miles. With regen, it takes a while to use up the
amps while in stop and go neighborhood driving. When we got home we were
talking about the paint. The truck had been sitting in the AZ sun, baking
the clear coat off for over 9 years. It is kind of an emerald green so it
really took a beating. On top of that, a couple of birds had their way with
the hood and roof so there are a few spots where the paint was eaten right
down to the bare metal. My wonderful wife of 21 years suggested we have it
painted dark purple with flames!!! I almost fell over my jaw!
I just got it charged back up and put to bed. It's my turn for bed now.
like I'm really going to get to sleep now!!
Thanks again to Victor Tikhonov, Jim Husted, David Roden, especially Tom
Hudson, and everyone else who helped me overcome many of the startup
problems this truck had.
EV GRININ' now!
Jeff Wilson
USA(Ret)
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Est. yearly US cost to safeguard Persian Gulf oil supply: $50 billion Est.
2001 value of US crude oil imports from Persian Gulf: $19 billion
-- Harper's Index, April 2002
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Wilson wrote:
>My wonderful wife of 21 years suggested we have it
>painted dark purple with flames!!! I almost fell over my
>jaw!
Might I recommend dark purple with ball lightening instead?
Perhaps dark purple with plasma balls?
Congrats on getting it running. Another EV on the road
displacing the miles of a gasser is another small step
towards reducing pollution and dependence upon finite
resources.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff
Ain't a damn thing wrong with your life, is there? Keep on Grinnin', Buddy.
David C. Wilker Jr.
United States Air Force, Retired
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:13 PM
Subject: Got my EV Grin :-)
Good EVening to EVeryone out there!
I just wanted to let the world know that I now have a huge EV grin! I got
my E-10 running and charged last night at about midnight and so after work
and other stuff I finally got to take the truck out for a joy ride at
about
9:45 PM. My wife came with on the maiden voyage. We had a ball! We
drove
all over the neighborhood for about 20 minutes. Then my wife asked if she
could drive home! I knew I married her for a good reason. I just can't
imagine too many wives out there going out on the first test run much less
asking to drive it as well. Anyway, I have to break in the new batteries
so
we could only go a short distance and call it a night. I burned off about
6
AH in a little over 8 miles. With regen, it takes a while to use up the
amps while in stop and go neighborhood driving. When we got home we were
talking about the paint. The truck had been sitting in the AZ sun, baking
the clear coat off for over 9 years. It is kind of an emerald green so it
really took a beating. On top of that, a couple of birds had their way
with
the hood and roof so there are a few spots where the paint was eaten right
down to the bare metal. My wonderful wife of 21 years suggested we have
it
painted dark purple with flames!!! I almost fell over my jaw!
I just got it charged back up and put to bed. It's my turn for bed now.
like I'm really going to get to sleep now!!
Thanks again to Victor Tikhonov, Jim Husted, David Roden, especially Tom
Hudson, and everyone else who helped me overcome many of the startup
problems this truck had.
EV GRININ' now!
Jeff Wilson
USA(Ret)
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Est. yearly US cost to safeguard Persian Gulf oil supply: $50 billion Est.
2001 value of US crude oil imports from Persian Gulf: $19 billion
-- Harper's Index, April 2002
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Um... hook the PC to the charger or to the truck?
and where might I find EV200 software?
(time to learn some new tricks...)
Chris Zach wrote:
Hm, crummy. Is it possible to hook a PC up to it and use the EV200.exe
software to lie to the Magnecharger a bit?
I'm not sure what model of MC the EV1 used. Mine is probably first
generation; it doesn't monitor all the batteries one at a time however
it does monitor temps.
Chris
Jim Coate wrote:
So after a couple of weeks traveling (and some fun meeting a few north
west EVers) (and falling 1000's of e-mails behind), I am back home and
find that my spiffy factory made 1998 Chevy S-10 truck isn't so happy.
I left it on the charger (Magne Charger) while gone so it could keep
the batteries cool and topped off. But it apparently spent much of the
time saying "check vehicle". The charger refuses to start; the truck
doesn't want to go either. Checking the error codes it seems to be
that the voltage for battery #11 is too low and because of (or in
addition to?) this it won't close the main contactor to start things up.
Anyone have any experience with these? It is the same drive system as
in the removed-from-existence EV1's. Dropping the battery pack is
probably quite an involved task. Ugh.
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Right about the source voltages.
My motorhome is similar. I worry about putting 100 amps down the neutral and
causing a fire in the facility due to an inadequate wire size in the neutral
feed wire.
Cruising Equipment used to make a "backoff load manager" for marine
applications. I believe it had a sensor to see if the input voltage was 240
or 120 VAC and set the load limit accordingly. It was intended to limit the
current consumption to avoid burning up a genset or opening a dock pedestal
breaker. It assumed that the boat was the only load on that breaker and
would turn on or off loads to maximize the current draw but keep the total
current from exceeding the breaker rating. There were several shedable load
connections and a "Variable" load connection. It would activate the highest
priority loads until it came near the breaker rating and then turn up the
"variable" load to pull the desired current.
The priority of the loads could be Freezer, Air conditioner, heater, water
heater, battery charger, lighting in any order. The variable load could be
the water heater, battery charger or other load that could operate from a
triac controlled dimmer type control.
The thought was to allow the customer to prioritize what load to pull down
first, second, third, etc. and have the variable take up the slack. In the
above priority, the freezer would get cold until the thermostat kicked it
off, then the AC would run until the thermostat turned it off, then the
heater would run if it got too cold, and any excess breaker capacity would
be diverted into the battery pack or the water heater. When all the
appliances, where at low power from the thermostats turning them off or the
batteries were charged, the line current to the boat would then drop below
the setting. If any of the systems came back on line, the manager would shed
the lower priority loads to meet that need and then bring them back on line
as the current became available.
I don't know how many were sold or if they are still available.
I thought they were available from Cruising Systems
http://www.google.com/local?hl=en&lr=&q=cruising-systems&near=Seattle,+WA&sa=X&oi=locald&radius=0.0&latlng=47606389,-122330833,3241428486276024769
but I no longer see any reference to it on the web.
The system did not determine how much draw from the utility. Instead, it
would regulate the onboard systems to draw a user set current from the
utility.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: Auto-determination of AC current available
> That's true but that's not all the story. 30 amp service is 120 volts
> just like a wall outlet but with a different connector. 50 amp
> service is 50 amp 120/240 using a 4 wire range plug.
>
> The energy control system detects whether the second leg of 120 is
> available and shifts loads accordingly. Interestingly enough, the RV
> does not take advantage of the 240 volts. It basically treats the
> service as 100 amp, 120 volt service.
>
> I certainly can't think of any method whereby one could detect the
> branch circuit capacity.
>
> John
>
> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 23:32:28 +0200, Mike Barber
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >My father-in-law has a motor home which has on on-board inverter with
> >battery pack. According to him, he can plug it in to charge the
batteries
> >and it determines if it has a 30A or 50A feed, and it turns different
> >receptacles in the coach on and off to maintain this current limit so you
> >don't blow a breaker (ie if the dryer is on, it will shut off some other
> >outlets or something).
> >
> >Is this accurate? If so, it seems like there would be a potential for an
EV
> >charger to determine somehow what is available to it without blowing a
> >breaker. This would come in handy if you're doing an EV road trip and
need
> >to hook in someplace...
> >
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can do either the back-to-back mosfets or a blocking diode provided
0.3v (schottky) is not too large of a difference. Current surge nor
heat generation is not an issue in a mosfet if you still use a
resistor. A diode in there would of course still generate heat.
Frankly I'm not even sure why you have a relay here if you want the
controller to be charged up to the pack voltage. You've got all the
leakage current of being hooked up, it just can't draw heavy currents,
so I guess this is just a safety shutoff thing when it's unattended?
Still, a precharge resistor should really only be switched on long
enough to charge the caps before switching on the relay. I suppose if
the mfg says it's ok you could go with it, but if this is what we're
talking about we're still leaving a high powere controller powered up
while unattended, making a minor safety and reliability issue and a
power leakage issue.
Danny
Lee Hart wrote:
Danny Miller wrote:
Switching a precharge resistor sounds like a good job for a mosfet of
the appropriate voltage rating.
Except that a MOSFET is never really "off". There's a parasitic diode
across it that will still be present. Thus, you would need a second
MOSFET, or at least a blocking diode, in series. Without these, you'd
have trouble if the controller voltage was ever higher than the battery
pack voltage. This will happen when you turn the charger off so the pack
voltage suddenly drops; or if your controller can do regen.
You also need to be careful about the peak power that these MOSFETs have
to handle. If you slam them on too quickly or too hard, the peak current
and peak power dissipation is very high. If you turn them on too slowly,
the current is low enough but the power dissipation could require a
heatsink.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can build one of those! Actually I was thinking about doing one
already. I have a little Honda EU1000i generator which is really nifty
but only a 1KW capacity and a very limited overload capacity. I wanted
to run some metal halide lights and start them one by one without
overloading the system. It would need to shut off any unimportant loads
while starting up each light one by one.
There are several other issues. One, the startup current can be high
and it may need to know how much current it will take to start motor
loads. Actually usually those startups won't trip a breaker but a power
inverter/battery on the other hand usually have an absolute limit on how
much power they can put out. Second, some loads, like my air
conditioner, have digital controls which have to be manually turned on
every time the power cuts out (bummer!).
And as noted there's a question of how it knows how much power is too
much. Really it has to be manually set, and it needs to have an idea of
what kinds of overloads are acceptable for brief periods. To do it
right, you almost need to write a little code for each application.
I was thinking about doing one with a serial port that you could just
type in a few parameters for how you want the loads to prioritize and
cycle and it could work from there. Otherwise it might need to do some
fuzzy logic to understand how to maximise the system.
You almost want to run this off of X10. That stuff communicates through
the power line itself to switches on each load, so it might keep you
from running a separate switched extension cord to each load.
Danny
Joe Smalley wrote:
Right about the source voltages.
My motorhome is similar. I worry about putting 100 amps down the neutral and
causing a fire in the facility due to an inadequate wire size in the neutral
feed wire.
Cruising Equipment used to make a "backoff load manager" for marine
applications. I believe it had a sensor to see if the input voltage was 240
or 120 VAC and set the load limit accordingly. It was intended to limit the
current consumption to avoid burning up a genset or opening a dock pedestal
breaker. It assumed that the boat was the only load on that breaker and
would turn on or off loads to maximize the current draw but keep the total
current from exceeding the breaker rating. There were several shedable load
connections and a "Variable" load connection. It would activate the highest
priority loads until it came near the breaker rating and then turn up the
"variable" load to pull the desired current.
The priority of the loads could be Freezer, Air conditioner, heater, water
heater, battery charger, lighting in any order. The variable load could be
the water heater, battery charger or other load that could operate from a
triac controlled dimmer type control.
The thought was to allow the customer to prioritize what load to pull down
first, second, third, etc. and have the variable take up the slack. In the
above priority, the freezer would get cold until the thermostat kicked it
off, then the AC would run until the thermostat turned it off, then the
heater would run if it got too cold, and any excess breaker capacity would
be diverted into the battery pack or the water heater. When all the
appliances, where at low power from the thermostats turning them off or the
batteries were charged, the line current to the boat would then drop below
the setting. If any of the systems came back on line, the manager would shed
the lower priority loads to meet that need and then bring them back on line
as the current became available.
I don't know how many were sold or if they are still available.
I thought they were available from Cruising Systems
http://www.google.com/local?hl=en&lr=&q=cruising-systems&near=Seattle,+WA&sa=X&oi=locald&radius=0.0&latlng=47606389,-122330833,3241428486276024769
but I no longer see any reference to it on the web.
The system did not determine how much draw from the utility. Instead, it
would regulate the onboard systems to draw a user set current from the
utility.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
