EV Digest 4585
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Correct AGM charging (was: A timer on PFC chargers)
by russco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: power line leakage, was: Re: Inverters for EV to grid connection
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Thoughts on friction and traction - rotating mass
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: power line leakage, was: Re: Inverters for EV to grid connection
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Orange Vu-Tron cable - Zilla cable recommendations
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 914 FOR SALE
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: LA Times front page article on EVs today
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: LA Times front page article on EVs today
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: power line leakage, was: Re: Inverters for EV to grid connection
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: power line leakage, was: Re: Inverters for EV to grid connection
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: power line leakage, was: Re: Inverters for EV to grid connection
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Time for new batteries soon
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: 200VDC to 120VAC Inverter
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 200VDC to 120VAC Inverter
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Time for new batteries soon
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) North West Cable News Reporter NEEDS Feedback
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Time for new batteries soon
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: PFC-30
by "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Battery/motor amperages, was: Re: Orange Vu-Tron cable
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Putting breaker under the radio
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Time for new batteries soon
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Time for new batteries soon
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) RE: LA Times front page article on EVs today
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Silver Bullet
by "Brian D.Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The madkatz site shows the Russco Charger as debuted in 1997. The
Russco charger, like the automobile, has evolved and improved through
the years. The present Russco Charger is lighter, smaller, redder, and
meaner.
Russco does not presently have a web site. You may find information on
Russco Chargers at Electro Auto (Mike Brown):
http://electroauto.com/catalog/charger.shtml#russco
EV Parts (Roderick):
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/index.php?id=168
The standard Russco Charger is a two stage, constant current and
constant voltage, with or without timed shutoff. The Russco Three Stage
charger adds a third adjustable constant current stage. This stage can
be user set for a low current, such as two amps, for a preset time, such
as two hours, as Optima recommends. The Regulator Disconnect provides
a relay contact to disconnect shunt battery regulators, which must be
disconnected to let the voltage run high.
Neither of the above suppliers of Russco Chargers stock the Russco 3S,
but should be able to supply them. Or consult the Russco Factory
directly. Ask for Russ.
Russ Kaufmann
RUSSCO Engineering
The Other PFC Charger With GFCI
Ryan Stotts wrote:
russco wrote:
All this with PFC and GFI protection. And Battery Regulator Disconnect
for the third stage. Small size and hundreds under $1K, too.
Availability since 1997.
I was searching for more info on these chargers. What's the main website?
http://www.madkatz.com/russco.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That line about cancelling does not apply if you are close to one phase
ie nearly beneath but becomes so the further you are away. It is
electrostatic energy you are harnessing not electromagnetic. While we
are on that subject, if you run enough conductor say 100 metres in a
loop and rectify it you can harness a small amount of radio energy,
particularly in the suburbs. If you live near the VOA transmitting
stations (Megawatts of RF energy) it would be appreciable energy. N.
Tesla wanted to harvest the natural energy around our world but never
realised his dream. Apparently G. Westinghouse didn't like the idea of
people getting energy for nothing.
No such thing as a free lunch.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of James Massey
Sent: Wednesday, 17 August 2005 12:38 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: power line leakage, was: Re: Inverters for EV to grid
connection
At 07:18 PM 16/08/05 -0500, Ryan Stotts wrote:
>I remember back in the 1980's hearing a story(might be an urban
>legend?) about someone building some sort of grid structure underneath
>some HV power lines and powering his house from the magnetic field?
>Supposedly the power company made him take his grid down because he
>was "stealing" power? It wasn't physically connected to their lines
>though. Anyone hear that one? Is it even possible if true?
>Electromagnetic Induction?
I heard this one too, but I can't remember the source. It went along the
lines of:
Farmer complained about the amount of energy being induced into his barn
from the overhead power lines. "not possible" says energy transmission
company, 3-phase lines cancel out the fields around them to a very low
level. Farmer makes up grid and runs his lights in his barn. "Oh" says
transmission company - investigates and finds an earth fault that made
one
of the three phases not be taking its' share of the load. Transmission
company repairs the fault and the farmers lights go out.
Which is in keeping with electromagnetic theory. Lee may have some
comments?
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If all the weight is concentrated at the rim:
Energy of rotation = m * R^2 * w^2 = m * v^2
Total energy = 1/2 m * v^2 + m * v^2 (energy of linear motion +
rotational)
So 1 part of the energy goes to linear motion, and 2 parts to
rotational energy, so the wheel looks like 3 times the mass elsewhere
on the vehicle.
Similarly, if you suppose the weight is evenly distributed throughout
the wheel,
Total energy = 1/2 m * v^2 + 1/2 m * v^2
So the wheel looks twice as heavy.
Removing weight from the flywheel is even more important than the
wheels, as it is geared weight and spinning faster than the wheels.
This is probably where you heard the "7" number, where taking a pound
off the flywheel is like taking around 7 pounds off the car (at least
in low gear).
As you said, this only matters while accelerating, and not during
steady speeds.
You can also do the experiment with a hollow tube and a filled tube,
and race a heavy block with small, lightweight wheels. You'll be
amazed how much faster the block is.
--- Philip Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >Subject: Re: Thoughts on friction and traction
> >Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 10:39:11 -0700 (PDT)
> >Another thought, taller tires increase the moment of inertia more,
> >making the car accelerate more slowly, which is another motive for
> a
> >shorter but wider tire.
> >
> In general, I think too much emphasis is given to rotating
> tire/wheel mass.
> One of these days, I'll measure the actual inertia of a tire/wheel
> ( easy to
> do with a bifilar pendulum) and figure the additional mass due to
> its
> inertia. My guess is that it is usually about 1/4 to 1/3 of the
> actual
> tire/wheel mass.
>
> If that's true, then removing a pound of tire/wheel rotating mass
> would be
> the equivalent of removing 1 1/4 to 1 1/3 pounds of vehicle mass.
> Nowhere
> near two or even seven times the mass, as I have sometimes read.
>
> AND, that "extra mass" effect is only while accelerating - there is
> no
> penalty for rotating mass when hill climbing, or, any increase in
> rolling
> resistance or other sources of vehicle drag.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tesla's plan wasn't to harness natural energy, but broadcasting lots of
high frequency radio energy at many KHz. Supposedly he lit tubes miles
away. The magnitude would have to be far higher than what is used to
send radio broadcasts.
Not being able to charge people for receiving the power would be the
least of your problems. The environmental and health effects of
saturating the landscape with power 24 hrs a day can't be good. It's
incredibly inefficient as well. And would almost totally rule out the
use of radio receivers which have a hard time filtering out a faint
music channel from another frequency at millions of times the amplitude,
as well as the mere existance of sensitive electronics, since small
amounts of power would be induced in every PCB trace unless thoroughly
shielded.
Danny
djsharpe wrote:
If you live near the VOA transmitting
stations (Megawatts of RF energy) it would be appreciable energy. N.
Tesla wanted to harvest the natural energy around our world but never
realised his dream. Apparently G. Westinghouse didn't like the idea of
people getting energy for nothing.
No such thing as a free lunch.
David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Ralph's setup is pretty much what I heard straight from Otmar. 2/0 will
be fine with a Z1K. If you keep the motor cables short, 2/0 will
suffice. With a Z2K, you'd have to upgrade to 4/0 on the motor side.
Not a bad idea to do 4/0 on the motor loop right from the start.
Also, keep cables as short as possible, but long enough to not cause
stress on the cables or grief on yourself.
BTW, I now have cable available for sale on the EV Source website
(http://www.evsource.com/tls_cable.php). This is extremely flexible
cable! Very nice for working in tight places. I'll soon have yellow
available. I used to have access to orange, but the supply dried up.
Orange is what I used in the 200sx. I like it very much.
Lugs, terminals, and heat-shrink also available, just not posted on the
website yet. Soon!
-Ryan
Jeff Shanab writes:
Ok, looking at the table mentioned, it appears as if it is good for 400
amps (2/0) up to 100 feet. So is 2/0 good enough for zilla 1K on
orbitals? or should I jump up to 4/0. I am thinking 400 for battery
side and up to 1000 for motor side, should I just double run the motor
side?
My car has 13 buddy-pairs of Optimas (156v) and a Zilla 1K. I'm using
2/0 cable for the battery interconnects and 4/0 for the motor cables.
Ralph
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I looked but did not see it.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: 914 FOR SALE
> My E-jeep (Geo Tracker) is also for sale on www.evalbum.com in classified
> electric cars. Mark
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:50 AM
> Subject: Re: 914 FOR SALE
>
>
> >
> > Try This One...(___< http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/129.html >___)
> $8.5K
> >
> > Bill & Sharon Hoopes
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > > Date: 8/15/2005 10:50:31 PM
> > > Subject: Re: 914 FOR SALE
> > >
> > > I think they might be talking about the blue one.
> > >
> > > What is the cost and location?
> > >
> > > Joe Smalley
> > > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > > Fiesta 48 volts
> > > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > > Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 1:45 PM
> > > Subject: Re: 914 FOR SALE
> > >
> > >
> > > > At 01:25 PM 8/15/2005, Sharon Hoopes wrote:
> > > > >YES! I HAVE A "71" 914 PORSCHE FOR SALE <
> > http://home.netcom.com/~slh4/ >
> > > > >
> > > > >Bill & Sharon Hoopes
> > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > You do? Sure can't tell from the web site.
> > > > --
> > > > John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> > http://www.CasaDelGato.com
> > > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela Merz wrote:
If the EAA what not sleep that soundly, we would read more about ev's,
we would see more charging stations, might have better batteries and we
would not be treated like weird circus animals.
I have never seen any club or association that does such little in
regard to public relations, public opinion forming and lobbying as the
EAA. They haven't even changed the website for quite some time.
I have to ask myself why I am spending money on a membership.
No wonder everybody believes EV'ers are nerds with an attitude.
Michaela, actually the EAA was well represented in the LA Times
article. Read this paragraph:
"There was Marc Geller, a San Francisco photographer who helped save
the last of Ford's TH!NK city cars, a zippy two-seat EV. Geller helped
spur a domino effect that ended with Greenpeace activists commandeering
the roof of Ford's Norwegian headquarters, the birthplace of the TH!NK.
The issue hit the papers, stoking national pride. Ford agreed last year
to spare nearly 300 of the little cars."
Marc Geller is a member of the EAA. But I'm not sure why this wasn't
mentioned in the LA Times article though.
Also EAA members have been out in force with the recent demonstrations
to prevent crushing of the Ford Rangers, EV-1s and the TH!NKS. The San
Francisco Chapter and Ivan Workman's chapter the EVAOSC have been
protesting at all the crushing demonstrations.
One beef I do have is that some organizations that have cropped up as a
result of the crushing activities fail to mention the EAA in their
websites when our members have been working behind the scenes at ALL
the protests.
I think we as EAA members have been labeled as "EV Nerds" by many
organizations and we seem to have a lack of respect among some of the
other EV organizations. When in reality our members are working at the
grassroots level to keep the EV movement alive. We are the ones
building the conversions and driving them on a daily basis.
At our EV meeting tonight four members drove their EVs to the meeting.
As for the website. Help is really needed. I've been asked several
times to be the EAA webmaster but I can't do it since I'm already
webmaster for NEDRA and the EVA/DC site. So we need someone to step up
to the plate and become webmaster for the EAA site.
One thing I wish the EAA could do but was told we could not was lobby
for EVs on the Hill and other government legislatures. The EAA is an
educational organization not a political one I was told.
But this is where I think we really need help and agree with you as far
as the EV movement is concerned. Look at this new energy bill. Although
some of it is based on wording from a previous bill concerning what
constitutes an alt fuel vehicle. In the new energy bill that will take
place Jan 1 2006 EVs are not mentioned explicitly as hybrids are.
We really needed a lobbying effort before the bill was passed to have
EVs and conversions expressively written in as a viable alternative to
imported oil. So I am dissapointed the EAA couldn't step up to the
plate to have some members lobby on behalf of EVs. We really need a
force to stand up for EVs.
So I am pretty dissapointed that although many EAA members were behind
all the activities mentioned in the LA Times article. The EAA wasn't
mentioned by name once.
Chip Gribben
Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC
http://www.evadc.org
National Electric Drag Racing Association
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't whine, boys, spill your guts. At least they
_carried_ the article. Here was my response. Cross
your fingers:
Kudos to the Times for reporting "Still Plugging
Along," Aug. 15. In 1997, I was a California middle
school science teacher; one of many always keeping
their eyes peeled for the next high-tech, high-paying
careers for their pupils. As General Motors and Honda
demonstrated their electric vehicles for my students,
and later as I test drove the all-electric vehicles
cited in your article, I thought I'd seen the future
for my students. I was so intrigued by EVs, that I
purchased a 3rd party conversion, and eventually built
my own, which I use in teaching science today. While
the conversion cost of $9,000 will be seen by some as
high, the $6 monthly "fueling" cost, as well as the
peace of mind in sending my money to local utilities,
and not Saudi madrassas is worth it.
What a shame that the auto manufacturers, oil
interests, and our government, have put profit before
long-term sustainability and national security.
The state I reside in now takes air quality more
seriously than CA, giving a tax rebate of $1,500 for
alternately-fueled vehicles. There's a fine line
between a visionary and a fool. Timing seems to
delineate which.
--- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 10:00:22 -0700, "Lawrence
> Rhodes"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Copy and paste into your browser: or click on if
> you are feeling lucky.
>
>http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-ev15aug15,0,5131192.story?coll=la-home-headlines
>
> Damn, I hate that kind of article. It perpetuates
> the myth that all
> EV drivers are eco-fruitcakes. It un-does all the
> work us un-True
> Believers do to disassociate EVs and ourselves from
> the fruitcakes.
> I'm still waiting, in vane, it appears, for an
> article that shows
> Joe-everybodies driving EVs because they're fun and
> because they're
> cheap and convenient to operate.
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am not certain of this. Read "Radiant Energy". The source was
apparently to be Cosmic Energy, free, but how the Concentrating
Transmitter was to work was not explained. I made a mistake before. The
financier was JPMorgan, not GWestinghouse. Read Tesla & free energy.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Danny Miller
Sent: Wednesday, 17 August 2005 2:48 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: power line leakage, was: Re: Inverters for EV to grid
connection
Tesla's plan wasn't to harness natural energy, but broadcasting lots of
high frequency radio energy at many KHz. Supposedly he lit tubes miles
away. The magnitude would have to be far higher than what is used to
send radio broadcasts.
Not being able to charge people for receiving the power would be the
least of your problems. The environmental and health effects of
saturating the landscape with power 24 hrs a day can't be good. It's
incredibly inefficient as well. And would almost totally rule out the
use of radio receivers which have a hard time filtering out a faint
music channel from another frequency at millions of times the amplitude,
as well as the mere existance of sensitive electronics, since small
amounts of power would be induced in every PCB trace unless thoroughly
shielded.
Danny
djsharpe wrote:
>If you live near the VOA transmitting
>stations (Megawatts of RF energy) it would be appreciable energy. N.
>Tesla wanted to harvest the natural energy around our world but never
>realised his dream. Apparently G. Westinghouse didn't like the idea of
>people getting energy for nothing.
>No such thing as a free lunch.
>David
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Folks, this thread was off topic to begin with, and now is heading even
further away. The fact that EVs are powered by electricity doesn't
necessarily make the general discussion of electrical energy sources
appropriate for discussion here.
Also, the discussion has now moved toward an area - overunity and "free
energy" topics - which the list agreed some years back not to spend time and
bandwidth on.
I'm sorry to have to request this, but please either let this thread drop,
or take it to private email. It isn't really appropriate for the EV list.
You may also wish to investigate the Yahoo "Free Energy" group at :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/free_energy/
Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Most of the stuff out there about Tesla was not written by Tesla. Much
of it is not representative of his work and does not correspond to
documented experiments. Basically the UFO/Free Energy guys try to give
credibility to their writings and theories by saying it came from
Tesla. It didn't.
Tesla certainly spent a lot of his career on the RE thing. He built a
giant radio power transmitting tower at Wardenclyffe, Long Island. Not
a receiver. It was never completed and there was no real documentation
on what he was doing with it, and was torn down before its structure was
documented either. Looked pretty weird. It's fertile grounds for quack
theories.
Danny
djsharpe wrote:
I am not certain of this. Read "Radiant Energy". The source was
apparently to be Cosmic Energy, free, but how the Concentrating
Transmitter was to work was not explained. I made a mistake before. The
financier was JPMorgan, not GWestinghouse. Read Tesla & free energy.
David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Is this about the life I can expect from these
>batteries? Is there any logic to going to to Optimas or
>something that can
>handle the higher currents better? My previous pack had
>range of about 35 miles
>on a warm day of all freeway miles.
There's plenty of logic in switching batteries. 35 miles per
charge at 50-60 mph speeds on the freeway means you're using
that charge in under an hour. The same weight in AGMs that
you have in floodeds should give you better range since they
have a lower Peukert's exponent.
Further, a pack of Optima D750s that weighs the same as the
current pack will have a hiher voltage. This would mean a
higher top speed if your motors and controllers can be
configured to handle the increased voltage.
However, if you switch to Optimas, you will want a charger
and regulators suited for them to maximize life. My hunch is
that the Tropica's charger will kill a pack of Optimas or
any sealed lead acid battery for that matter.
So changing the batteries to sealed, with it necessitating a
new charger and regs, is about a $4k upgrade or more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 8/16/05, Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I kinda like the idea of straight out gutting a power inverter so the
> 12v-to-HV rails stage is gone. Then we build a DC/DC converter to
> adjust the input voltage to something the rails can take, and regulated
> too. Actually this isn't that hard and doesn't require a lot of
> inductance as long as the gap between battery voltage and desired HV
> rail voltage is not great.
Just use the vehicle's motor speed controller and a suitable inductor.
Like the motor's field winding perhaps.
Remember that most of these cheap "modified sine wave" inverters have
a fixed width boost stage anyway - the voltage of the internal DC bus
varies according to battery voltage, so I don't think there's any need
to do it differently - just set the throttle so it's correct with a
fully charged pack.
You'll get much less sag from a 144V pack supplying 2kW than from 24V,
that's for sure :)
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 8/17/05, jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Ed and All,
> Couldn't one use a 150-300wt sq wave inverter to drive the
> gates of a pair of
> mosfets into the secondary of the batt charging transformer fairly simply to
> get 1-2kw for
> power tools, emergency power or EV A/C running? Can anyone draw up a diagram
> how it
> would be done for 72vdc or 120-144 packs most use?
You could make a simple circuit using a 555 timer. This will produce
a square wave drive for your transformer secondary - not ideal but
it's simple and somewhere to start.
Here's a page with the circuit and a calculator to get the appropriate
values for 60Hz. http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/LM555.html#3
Try R1=1K, R2=10K and C1=1uF
You could produce a "modified sine" waveform using a dual timer, the 556.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Westlund [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Further, a pack of Optima D750s that weighs the same as the
> current pack will have a hiher voltage. This would mean a
> higher top speed if your motors and controllers can be
> configured to handle the increased voltage.
The motors can take higher voltage, but the Tropica runs a pair of
Curtis controllers, so upgrading them for a higher voltage would be an
expensive exercise. A Z1K with the series-parallel switching
caqpability could be interesting...
> However, if you switch to Optimas, you will want a charger
> and regulators suited for them to maximize life. My hunch is
> that the Tropica's charger will kill a pack of Optimas or any
> sealed lead acid battery for that matter.
Regs perhaps, but Steve's present charger is just fine for Optimas (it
is not the stock Tropica charger, but is rather a
microprocessor-controlled unit with several different user-selectable
algorithms, one of which is ideal for Optimas and Orbitals).
> So changing the batteries to sealed, with it necessitating a
> new charger and regs, is about a $4k upgrade or more.
Easily. The present flooded pack is about 840lbs, which is about 20YTs
worth. $2000-2500 for batteries (assuming they can be stacked into the
Tropica's battery tray). Another $800 for 20 regs, about $2k for a
Z1kHV, and then a couple hundred more for new traction wiring and
connectors. Some of this might be offset by selling the pair of Curtis
controllers and the central watering system off the flooded pack.
I'd be inclined to look into larger AGMs (or even floodeds) to provide a
stiffer than US125s pack at a voltage not significantly higher than the
present 72V system (so that the controller isn't always being operated
at a low duty cycle to keep from hitting 72V motors with 200V+), and
upgrade to a Z1kLV with series-parallel capability. The Z1K will allow
the battery current limit to be set for good battery life while the much
higher than stock motor loop current and series-parallel switching
should provide a noticable performance boost despite the conservative
battery limit.
The controller upgrade might even be the first thing to do, since it
will work with the stock pack (or a more-or-less equivalent replacement
pack) and selling the stock controllers could go a long way toward
covering the cost of a replacment pack of floodeds as a temporary
measure until the pocketbook recovers enough to withstand the jump to a
stiffer, more expensive pack.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes... I will send this OUT over both our local SEVA e-mail list AND
the National EV Discussion List.
FOLKS: Please RESPOND to this Reporter Directly...
She is looking to chat with folks who have recently converted to EV or
are in the Process...
Akiko Fujita wrote:
Steve:
I haven't had much luck finding anybody that is converting their cars.
Can you please send out an e-mail to see if anybody's interested in
talking to us?
We are looking for any changes drivers are making to existing cars to
improve fuel efficiency.
Also, would you be available for an interview tomorrow morning?
I'll be in touch with you...in the meantime please call me with any
questions.
Sincerely,
Akiko Fujita
Reporter, Northwest Cable News
(206) 817-2517
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All this stuff scares me a bit and has me wondering if I am deciding right
to go with AGM batteries. I have been planning a 156v pack for my
conversion. I don't want to have to spend an extra $40-50 per battery just
for individual regulators. What scares me more is the apparently short life
span that some folks are implying on the AGMs. I need to get 2 or 3 years
out of my pack to make the investment worth while. I also want to be sure
and get a correct charger. If the agm pack is only going to last a year, I
might as well go with "cheapie" marine batteries that can be purchased for a
third of the price!
There has to be a happy medium somewhere!
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:52 AM
Subject: Re: Time for new batteries soon
>Is this about the life I can expect from these
batteries? Is there any logic to going to to Optimas or
something that can
handle the higher currents better? My previous pack had
range of about 35 miles
on a warm day of all freeway miles.
There's plenty of logic in switching batteries. 35 miles per
charge at 50-60 mph speeds on the freeway means you're using
that charge in under an hour. The same weight in AGMs that
you have in floodeds should give you better range since they
have a lower Peukert's exponent.
Further, a pack of Optima D750s that weighs the same as the
current pack will have a hiher voltage. This would mean a
higher top speed if your motors and controllers can be
configured to handle the increased voltage.
However, if you switch to Optimas, you will want a charger
and regulators suited for them to maximize life. My hunch is
that the Tropica's charger will kill a pack of Optimas or
any sealed lead acid battery for that matter.
So changing the batteries to sealed, with it necessitating a
new charger and regs, is about a $4k upgrade or more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill & Sharon Hoopes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [Original Message]
> From: Sharon Hoopes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Date: 8/15/2005 6:51:50 PM
> Subject: Re: PFC-30
>
>
> Hi Rich: I have 2 EV's Porsche 132v 105's X 22 & the festiva 72v 12X
154's.
> Can I charger off 120vac 15amps for the festiva??? Thanks........Bill
>
> Bill & Sharon Hoopes
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Date: 8/15/2005 3:23:56 PM
> > Subject: Re: PFC-30
> >
> > You can't!
> > They are that popular.
> >
> > I can make you one though.
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro.
> >
> > I am going to be back ordered here this week. One left on the shelf,
then
> > it's going to be a couple of weeks before I can get more loaded and
> tested.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "ev" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 12:22 PM
> > Subject: PFC-30
> >
> >
> > > Bill hoopes < [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
> > > WHERE CAN I BUY AN used PFC-30 CHARGER???
> > >
> > > Bill & Sharon Hoopes
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Battery/motor amperages, was: Re: Orange Vu-Tron cable
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 12:59:54 +1000
At 09:17 PM 16/08/05 -0500, Ryan wrote:
>or should I jump up to 4/0. I am thinking 400 for battery
> side and up to 1000 for motor side
This is something I've never been clear about. How in the Zillas case
does 400 amps in equal 1000 amps out?
It is about the *average* amperage. At the example above, the controller
power devices are on for 40% of the time. Conditions are right to achieve
1000 Amps in the motor loop, the controller when it is on is 'topping up'
the current flow in the motor loop with a 1000A burst. When the controller
turns off there is still 1000A flowing in the motor (normally through the
free-wheel diodes in the controller). But there is now no current flowing
from the battery, resulting in an average current from the battery of 400A
(40% of 1000A). Also the average motor voltage would be around 40% of the
average batery voltage.
Of course in the real world, the motor current is decaying during the off
time and increasing during the on-time. The filter capacitors in the
controller and the inductance of the wiring go a long way to averaging out
the current in the battery loop - instead of square-wave pulses it would be
more triangular/curved, increasing when the controller is on, decreasing
when the controller is off.
Hope this helps
James
Another way to think about it is to look at the controller as a DC
"transformer". Moast of the time, high voltage and low current goes in, and
lower voltage and higher current comes out.
The power out is the same as the power in - except for small losses in the
controller ; that's why it generates heat and needs to be kept cool.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the Aspire there is a nifty spot under the factory radio that would just
fit the Heinemann breaker. Good access. Protected by plastic on both
sides. The down side is bringing both cables into the passenger compartment
but that too will be behind plastic. Anybody done this?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 04:53 AM 8/17/2005, Mark Ward wrote:
All this stuff scares me a bit and has me wondering if I am deciding
right to go with AGM batteries. I have been planning a 156v pack
for my conversion. I don't want to have to spend an extra $40-50
per battery just for individual regulators. What scares me more is
the apparently short life span that some folks are implying
Yeah, but the regs don't need to be replaced when the batteries get replaced.
Also, it REALLY depends on what your normal driving is going to be.
Running them to 80% DOD every day (or in my case, twice a day) will
kill them quickly. My 156v pack of YT's lasted 3 months before they
couldn't do it anymore.
(Their life span was NOT helped by the Zivan's Fry-em-Good charging algorithm.)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
The controllers, there are 2, won't take higher voltages. In addition I'd need
a new charger
and a new DC to DC convertor. That's way beyond what I can afford to do. The
original
Tropica charger is stitting on my workbench and a Delta-Q is in the car. I'd
still need the regs
though.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: John Westlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 02:52:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Time for new batteries soon
>Is this about the life I can expect from these
>batteries? Is there any logic to going to to Optimas or
>something that can
>handle the higher currents better? My previous pack had
>range of about 35 miles
>on a warm day of all freeway miles.
There's plenty of logic in switching batteries. 35 miles per
charge at 50-60 mph speeds on the freeway means you're using
that charge in under an hour. The same weight in AGMs that
you have in floodeds should give you better range since they
have a lower Peukert's exponent.
Further, a pack of Optima D750s that weighs the same as the
current pack will have a hiher voltage. This would mean a
higher top speed if your motors and controllers can be
configured to handle the increased voltage.
However, if you switch to Optimas, you will want a charger
and regulators suited for them to maximize life. My hunch is
that the Tropica's charger will kill a pack of Optimas or
any sealed lead acid battery for that matter.
So changing the batteries to sealed, with it necessitating a
new charger and regs, is about a $4k upgrade or more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
> Damn, I hate that kind of article. It perpetuates the myth that all
> EV drivers are eco-fruitcakes. It un-does all the work us un-True
> Believers do to disassociate EVs and ourselves from the fruitcakes.
> I'm still waiting, in vane, it appears, for an article that shows
> Joe-everybodies driving EVs because they're fun and because they're
> cheap and convenient to operate.
Once again John has tried as hard as he could to anger his audience here
without quite getting himself kicked off. (Not sure what that's about, not
sure I want to know.) He does raise an interesting point, though it's one I
think he doesn't get.
"Mainstream" is a point of arrival. Meaning from somewhere else, meaning
change is involved. Joe-everybody does not initiate change, he typically
resists it. Let's look at some larger societal changes as an illustration.
If it was left up to Joe-everybody, Jim Crowe would still be thriving in the
south, women wouldn't be allowed to vote and they would hold only menial
jobs if they had jobs at all. Joe-everybody doesn't care that the status
quo makes no sense, so he won't rise up to make changes.
It takes activists, people who will shake things up. Like bra-burning
bitches (sorry, women behaving in an "un-ladylike" manner), charismatic
ministers and fist-waving Black Panthers. Sometimes these activists are not
what "mainstream" society would call model citizens. That's the point - to
smack society around enough that they'll finally see the light. A sad
commentary on us, but true nonetheless.
And it takes time. It was only a few years ago that black women wearing
their hair in corn rows at the office was considered outrageous.
Jane-everybody doesn't do corn rows. Jane-everybody does what she's told.
The status quo is very comforting to most people, even concerning things as
mundane as their cars. Change = uncertainty = bad.
In the world of EVs the opposition is more commercial than societal. But
those commercial industries are extremely powerful. At the very least EVs
are seen as an unpredictable new type of product. (Remember, uncertainty =
bad.) At worst EVs might mean dramatically reduced profits. (I think
that's actually true for the oil industry, since the technology exists today
to cut our total national consumption by probably a third, maybe a half.
That's why they're pushing hydrogen - it makes no sense in energy terms, but
it allows them to keep selling product. I think EVs can still be profitable
for the auto industry, since high-tech prestige still sells. But it's a new
kind of high-tech, and new = uncertain = bad.) Those captains of industry
are required by law to maximize profits, so that's exactly what they're
doing - at the expense of society at large.
So John, if those horrible granola-crunching tree huggers and bleeding-heart
celebrities are the people you love to hate, and it gets your knickers all
twisted up to see them getting press, you've missed the point. They're
getting press. Joe-everybody is not. If you want to see people who meet
your high standards get some coverage as well, how are you going to go about
doing that?
I'm sure NEDRA would love it if you started a new chapter for them. You
could replace your cartoonish cheese-wedge CitiCar with a RAV-4EV and use it
for deliveries from your restaurant and general normal-car-type duties.
(What? An EV used as a normal car?) Then call your local paper and TV
station to see if you can get some coverage more to your liking. Or you can
complain about the "fruitcakes". Which is more effective?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom True wrote:
"It has been brought to my attention by Steve that our record shows as 83
mph, when in reality, it was 93 mph in 14.77 seconds. Perhaps we
can correct the records?"
Records show :
SC/D Nissan "Silver Bullet" - 156V
Owner: Tom True - WA
Driver: Steve "Clutch Smoke" Kiser
14.779 87.58
Pacific Raceway, WA May 11, 2002 ....
I can not change the records with out time slips to back them up.
Brian D. Hall,,,, NEDRA Recordkeeper
--- End Message ---
