EV Digest 4588
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Project ideas (long)
by "David Roden " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: LA Times front page article on EVs today
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: OT -- Re: EAA & Re: LA Times 8/16/05 article on EVs.
by "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Getting started with a mobility scooter
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 200VDC to 120VAC Inverter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Alternative batteries -
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Putting breaker under the radio
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: BMS - was PFC-30
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Alltrax Controller
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Putting breaker under the radio
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Variable electricity rates
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) What motor?
by Pascal Ruyter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EAA, was Re: LA Times front page article on EVs today
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ron Freund)
15) Re: open source-ness of Solectria E10?
by Tom Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: BMS - was PFC-30
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Alltrax Controller
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Powerpoint presentation is down. Ryan?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Alltrax Controller
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Review My Plans?
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 17 Aug 2005 at 14:59, Joe Vitek wrote:
> What have you all found to be the lightest and most aero vehicle to convert?
I'm betting on the Honda Insight. It's a light, highly aerodynamic two-seater
(so is an S-10) and should have enough room behind the seats for your music
gear.
Only problem is, they're scarce.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John, for someone who complains about others' "political" posts, you
sure do mention politics a lot. This includes references to "lefties" and
"eco-fruitcakes."
You'rre always welcome to respond in a calm, reasoned manner to subjects
that are on-topic here - perhaps even some kinds of political discussions.
But there's no need to insult other members.
The current post is a perfect example of the issue. You discuss change
management. The list members benefit from that. But you couch the
discussion in personal terms: "You probably don't know it but there is a
social science called change management." The first five words of that
sentence constitute a completely unnecessary personal attack. They
represent undesirable behavior for this list.
Your negativity about EVs' practicality could and should be a good foil for
the more naïve members. Offering positive ways to deal with what you
perceive as challenges to popularizing EVs makes for constructive
contributions. But attacking others as idealists, and their ideas as
useless, is destructive.
Namecalling may earn you points with certain kinds of unschooled people, but
among the well-educated group here, it's a poor substitute for thoughtful,
reasoned argument. Please cease using it.
And please don't repeatedly attack those who respond to you. Dogged
slugfests don't benefit the list. Say your peace; advance further reasoned
arguments if conditions warrant; but if the arguments aren't having an
effect, don't waste your time or our bandwidth with more fist-swinging.
A while back I asked the list whether I should try to get you (Neon John)
banned. The "nays" exceeded the "yeas" by exactly one. I let the matter
drop. But many of the yeas were passionately argued, and many of the nays
were tentative and conditional. There is a great deal of irritation here
about what many are calling ill manners and bad attitude. I am hearing
about it every time you set off yet another round of flames.
At your best, you produce some thoughtful and thought-provoking ideas. You
have useful experience and can be a valuable contributor, as many of my vote
respondents pointed out. But you decrement your value when you attack the
person, not the argument.
These "attack posts" disrupt the list, cause people to unsubscribe, and
threaten to overbalance your best contributions.
In the past I've sent these notes to you personally, asking you to moderate
your rhetoric. I'm amenable to correction on this matter, but as far as I
can recall, you've ignored them all, or at least not responded. Maybe you
have me filtered.
Therefore I am saying this in public. The whole list will be my witness.
And perhaps if someone responds to it, you'll get to see it.
Either treat the other members of the list civilly, posting facts and not
attacks, or just don't post. If you're unable to do this with reasonable
consistency, I'm going to request that the listserver support folks ban you.
Now a message for the other members of the list. Please don't respond to
any comments Neon John makes in which he engages in personal attacks. Just
hit "delete" at the first such mention. If you have to, add an email filter
so you never see his posts.
Thanks for your attention. Now let's get back to talking about EVs instead
of politics and social engineering.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVs as a political issue is considered the old way to do things. The ZEV
mandate was
voted out -even if only by CARB and California.
Building an EV or converting a car to an EV as a technical issue is more
importantly not a
small thing. Most people use normal car batteries or golf cart batteries as
exotic
batteries (ie, NiMH, Lithium-Ion, etc) are expensive. Most people don't use
arrays of
batteries, so controllers and Battery Management systems are technical things,
designed by
a handful of people, to solve problems.
The 8/16 LA Times article is about Public Policy, California, and Car
companies' policies
toward EVs. It was not about EVs or how to build them and get more EVs on the
street.
Public Policy no longer favors pure EVs. Current govt policy supports research
and funding
for Fuel-Cell cars, hybrids, even Diesels, but not much for EVs. This is a
reversal from
the 1990's when CARB and other agencies supported zero-emissions vehicles. The
ZEV mandate
was a really rather tepid recommendation for EVs, and never very warm support,
but it was
a great help. It was more of a recommendation for variety.
There was more than one reason that car companies disliked it.
For the various and sundry Electric Vehicles supporter's groups, the bigger
problem is for
unity, visibility, and 'good' publicity. It is bad to be cast as 'weird circus
animals'
or losers, etc. To change the EAA website is easy and it may be a good start.
Complaint(s) about the EAA funds may be a helpful observation. Some on the EVDL
may think
it is way too political and thus off-topic.
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Most any wire, cable, connector, component,etc. could cause your
problem. If it were mine, I'd put it up on a table or bench with its
seat and shrouding removed. Put blocks under the rear axle so that
the wheels are free to turn. Run the motor and wiggle things to see
if you can find something that will cause it to stop when it's running
or start when it is stopped. Check all connections to be sure they are
clean and tight. Check the condition of the motor brushes and
commutator. Give the control rheostats a shot of contact cleaner.
I'd put the scooter on the bench for a thorough exam anyway just to
see what I had
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Causey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:51 AM
Subject: Getting started with a mobility scooter
Greetings,
I have a Pacesaver 3-wheeled mobility scooter that is 5+ years old that
belonged to my mother until she got a Jazzy wheel chair. Since I have
not really "needed" it, I do not ride it all that often. Lately, when I
do ride it, I notice that it tends to run in a kind of sputtering
fashion. That is, it goes along just fine and then all of a sudden it
seems to freeze up and stop. Sometimes it then restarts and sometimes it
does not. Not being knowledgeable about electric motors I, decided to
try and research what causes this problem and try to remedy it. Any help
would be appreciated.
Along the same line, in researching for the aforementioned problem, I
began to think about what it might take to pep it up the scooter a bit.
Any ideas?
Mike Causey
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ed, both hookups for your 240v-36v transformer work. Here are some notes
on how to apply a transformer in non-traditional ways:
1. Each winding has its own independent voltage rating. You can apply
any voltage from 0 up to about 15% more than its rated voltage.
For instance, anything from 0v to 140v is ok on a 120v winding.
2. If you apply more voltage than this to any winding, the core starts
to saturate and lose it magnetic properties. The transformer
becomes just a big ball of long copper wires. Winding current
goes up drastically, and is only limited by the wire's resistance,
not the core's inductance. A saturated transformer gets very hot,
and will quickly fail.
3. The voltages on all the windings are always related by their turns
ratios. For instance, a transformer with a 120v primary and 12v
secondary always has a 10:1 ratio between these two winding's
voltage. 60v in produces 6v out; 6v in produces 0.6v out, etc.
4. Like batteries, you can connect any number of transformer windings
in series. Like batteries, transformer windings have polarity.
Connecting them in series so they aid or "boost" (+ to -, + to -
etc.) gives you the SUM of the individual winding voltages. For
example, a 240v and 36v winding in series aiding boosts voltage
to 240v + 36v = 275v.
5. Like batteries, you can also connect batteries so they oppose or
"buck" the voltage, so you get the difference between them. For
example, a 240v and 36v winding makes 240v - 36v = 204v.
6. Like batteries, you can connect transformer windings in parallel.
They must be the SAME VOLTAGE or you get large fault currents and
the transformer will fail.
7. Each transformer winding has its own current rating, determined
by its wire size. When you connect windings in series, the lowest
current winding sets the limit for all of them (it would burn up
if you went higher). When you connect same-voltage windings in
parallel, add their individual current ratings. For example, two
36v 5amp secondaries in parallel produce 36v at 10amps.
8. Ignoring efficiency losses, total power in = total power out.
Good transformers are normally over 90% efficient. Even cheap
near-junk ones are usually 60-80% efficient. Efficiency goes up
as transformer size/weight/power go up.
9. Transformers can stand temperatures well above what is
"comfortable" for electronics or human hands. Surface temperatures
of 160-200 deg.F are common nowdays, and not a sign of problems or
low efficiency.
10. The actual voltage rating of a winding varies with frequency
and waveform. What actually matters is the volts x seconds does
not exceed a particular value for that core. For example, a
120vac 60hz winding can also be used at 100vac at 50hz, 240vac
at 120hz, etc. If you use a transformer in a pulsed application,
only the time that the voltage is actually present counts.
The practical application of this could be to use a 200vdc source and
H-bridge (4 MOSFETs) to create a 60hz AC waveform that is
off/+200v/off/-200v and has the same RMS value as a 120vac sinewave.
This waveform could directly drive a non-critical load like light bulbs
or AC induction motor.
But if you wanted to drive an electronic load, you want both the RMS and
the peak voltages to both match a 120vac sinewave. For this, you could
use a transformer. It needs to knock the peak down from 200v to 168v
(since sinewave 120vac x 1.4 = 168v peak). So we need a transformer with
a turns ratio of 200v/168v = 1.19. The output side can be 120vac winding
(obviously the output voltage). This makes the input side winding 120v x
1.19 = 143v. Thus we don't need a 240v transformer.
If we don't need isolation, we can use a buck/boost transformer
(autotransformer). The output winding is 120v as above. The buck/boost
winding handles the voltage difference, 143v - 120v = 23v. This is close
enough to a standard 24v secondary, so use that.
Suppose this inverter is to deliver 1200 watts. That's 120v at 10amps.
So the 24v buck/boost winding needs to carry this 10 amps. The primary
will carry 24v/120v of this or 2 amps. So this transformer only needs to
be rated for 24v x 10amps = 240 watts to deliver 1200 watts output
(1/5th the size of an isolation transformer). And it only needs to have
one standard 120v and one standard 24v winding, wired in series, so it
bucks the input voltage down. When you set the on-time of the H-bridge
inverter correctly, the output will be a "modified sinewave" that
happens to have the same RMS and same peak voltages as a true sinewave
would have.
We're not really done. You'd still have all the usual problems with
square waves driving an inductive load (like the transformer with little
or no load on the output). This would require the usual MOVs,
capacitors, and filters you see in commercial inverters that have to
tolerate a wide range of unpredictable loads.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd say no chance.
We don't need better batteries. We need to have existing batteries
available and affordable.
I don't need better battery than SAFT or Kokam or Fortu already
makes today.
If I run my EV all day long and still ahve 50% charge at the end
of the day (say, 70kWh pack), all these talks about plugging in as
soon as opportunity presents become irrelevant - you don't run to
the gas station when you have half empty tank.
Force these companies to sell you their product at 1/20 of their
current prices and the problem is solved. Problem is, in a free
economy world, it ain't going to happen.
Michaela Merz wrote:
Hello nerds :)
In order to make EVs more appealing to the Joe-everybodies, we need more
range. That means better batteries. What is the chance that some of the
people here start a kind of co-op to be able to handle (charge, thermal
handling) and to order i.e. lithium batteries from Saft, Valence or
Thundersky in numbers?
mm.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence,
No, you shouldn't bring the cables into the passenger compartment. It's a
safety thang! I mounted my breaker on the control board under the hood
(along with the contactors, DC fuses (traction pack, heater, gauges), etc.)
I then mounted a PTO (power take off) cable with a handle in the dash and
connected that to the breaker for an emergency disconnect.
Hope this helps,
BB
>From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 08:20:44 -0700
>
>In the Aspire there is a nifty spot under the factory radio that would just
>fit the Heinemann breaker. Good access. Protected by plastic on both
>sides. The down side is bringing both cables into the passenger compartment
>but that too will be behind plastic. Anybody done this?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No idea yet - all depends on how much of its devlopment cost
OEMs, who want it really bad, will be willing to recoup.
I will be spreading out the rest of the cost.
Somewhere between $1k and $10k isn't a very good answer...
Victor
Noel P. Luneau wrote:
Hey Victor!
I have 30 Ovonic 9500 series NiMH batteries @ 13.2v, and rated current
is 85Ah at 25 degrees C.
I assume that this your SmoothTalk system? It looks to be very cool
technology.
Any idea of pricing yet?
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:00 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: PFC-30
Rich Rudman wrote:
Not a simple question since the main hazzard of NiMh is the
garrentied
thermal issues on the each end of the charge cycle.
This I have done manually recently...
If you have some form of temperature termination at the
end of each
charge cycle, A PFC charger works rather well.
But I don't track temp or amphours or Kwhr with my
chargers. So... you
will need to support your own end of charge determinations.
Yes I have done this... and no it was not hands off operation.
Noel (and all)
I will have something to fill the void in this situation very
soon now. The gadget will do any profile you download in it,
and it controls analog chargers like PFC series as well.
Granted, it tracks temps, Ah charged and other things,
treating external charger just as the brainless power stage.
Basically it is a BMS, being external brains for various chargers.
PbA Optimas, NiCd, LiIOns, whatever, it makes no distinction
(works the same way) - just strictly follows the charging
rules you set. But the responsibility to know and program
these rules in is on you.
What is the voltage for your NiMh individual batteries?
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any
distribution or use of this information by a person other than the intended
recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry to say this Jerry, but Joe Average will never even consider
driving something you're designing (3 wheeler). All I'm hearing
from your posts is make it cheap cheap and then cheaper than that.
I'm not saying that the cost should be ignored, but apparently it is
not the top priority for a Joe buying SUVs and Hummers left and right.
Victor
jerry dycus wrote:
Hi Michaela and All,
Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello nerds :)
Not a great openning.
In order to make EVs more appealing to the Joe-everybodies, we need more
range. That means better batteries. What is the chance that some of the
people here start a kind of co-op to be able to handle (charge, thermal
handling) and to order i.e. lithium batteries from Saft, Valence or
Thundersky in numbers?
They are no good canidates for this except Ni-cads as the others have
either cost or other problems. It is quite easy with a good lightweight, aero
EV to get a 100 mile range.
You can ven get this range with lead batts if you design the EV
correctly by using 50% batt weight with low aero/rolling drag. Lead batts are
the way to go because they have the lowest cost of any other types. One thing
few know is most golf carts have a stock range of 60-100 miles!!
As for joe 6 pack, what you need for them is either education just like you need for a reg car though it's so ingrained no one thinks of it with ICE cars or just make it idiot proof.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
mm.
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI all,
Just in the process of converting my Fiat 126 into electric drive. I really
really want to use the Alltrax 7245 controller, 72 volts at 450 amps because
its got an rs232 port to monitor and data log the parameters. I am doing my
thesis on it. I know its cheap, i would like anyones thoughts on it. Also i'll
give my specs of the car i am converting. It will weigh 750 kg all up, using
Trojan SCS25 12 volts batteries, Uses a 6.7 inch advanced dc motor the K
series, and running a 4 speed box with no clutch.
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 17 Aug 2005 at 14:49, David (Battery Boy) Hawkins wrote:
> I mounted my breaker on the control board under the hood ...
The problem with that is that it exposes the breaker to road spray and dirt,
unless it's encased in a box or something. I'm concerned about this. Also,
what if the cable breaks in an emergency?
I like to mount the main breaker under the seat and bring the hv wiring up
through the floorpan. That's not really a good strategy because it still
puts the hv wiring inside the passenger compartment, even if it's just a
couple of feet.
I don't have a good answer for this, but I definitely don't like under the
hood and I'm uneasy about mechanical cable connections. Other thoughts?
Anybody?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:20:38 -0400, Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>As another interesting fact.. he did say that freezing water at night to
>cool the house during the day worked well in their experiments, and only
>a lack of commercially available equipment prevented them from
>recommending the practice to consumers.
I did this to my first house over 30 years ago. No time-of-day
metering, I simply wanted to take advantage of the cool night air to
cool the condenser. I didn't have a large enough lot for proper
geothermal condensing.
I buried a large septic tank as the ice bank. I dug the hole, lined
it with heavy poly, dumped in several inches of foam packing peanuts,
set the tank, then covered it with peanuts and more plastic. The
plastic edges were RTV'd and rolled to make the insulated spaces
waterproof. I painted the inside of the tank with swimming pool paint
to make it waterproof. Several runs of 1" rigid copper pipe headered
into larger copper pipe comprised the heat exchange inside the tank.
The tank was filled with tap water and glycol circulated through the
heat exchange.
I used two 5 hp compressors staged with pressure switches to limit the
condensing pressure. I assembled the air cooled condenser from many
salvaged AC condensers. It was huge by the low SEER standard of the
day. It was fan and water mist cooled.
I controlled the freezing cycle so as not to freeze the septic tank
hard for fear of cracking it. I left liquid in the bottom of the tank
at all times. With this design, it was possible to control that with
glycol return temperature. When the ice bank froze essentially
solidly down to the lowest copper tube, the return temperature took a
sharp dip.
Each room got its own air handler and thermostat. The combo of
zoning, nighttime refrigeration and very efficient condenser cut my
total power bill by more than half at an investment of only a few
hundred dollars and most of a summer's work.
This design wasn't terribly utility friendly, as I over-capacitied the
compressors to guarantee a frozen ice bank even in the hottest,
muggiest summer night. On milder nights, the refrigeration only ran
for a few hours.
I'd do several things different today. With the common availability
of large poly tanks at low prices, I'd use a poly tank instead of the
septic tank. I'd bring the poly lining aboveground to eliminate the
possibility of ground water entering the insulation. I'd look at the
economics of foamed in place insulation vs the foam peanuts. Finally,
if I had time-of-day and/or demand metering available, I'd use a
microprocessor controller to predict the freeze time from ambient
conditions to spread the freeze out over the entire night. I'd use
several smaller, perhaps multi-stage compressors for better
regulation.
I imagine the cost of a commercially available system would be very
high but such a system can be hacked together using surplus industrial
parts very inexpensively.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
My name is Pascal, I am from The Netherlands, since a month or so I have been
reading the mails from this list because I am interested in an Electric vehicle
for commuting.
Although I have plans for an electric UrbaCar from mr. R. Q. Riley
(www.rqriley.com) I was wondering what kind of engine I can use instead of the
mentioned Jack & Heinz #G23 aircraft generator. (or the General Electric CM-77)
It seems I can't find any of those on the Internet, so any tip or suggestion
would be appreciated.
thx
Pascal
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail for Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Michaela:
The EAA is trying to do all you desire, and more.
Please remember: We are all volunteers.
We'd welcome your efforts to help us do EV evangelism,
in all its forms.
Some of the things we have been doing are not insignificant,
including our work supporting "DontCrush.com".
Have you even seen it?
We've been very active speaking with elected California
officials as well as bureaucrats about our interests,
including CARB members, BAAQMD and SCAQMD members, Sierra Club,
UCS, etc. Just look at the endorsements on the DontCrush site.
We've just finished installing chargers from San Francisco to Reno
along I-80, so that Lake Tahoe is now within the EV driving horizon
for some of today's EV's. The in-line ATTACHMENT below will
provide you with some insight. We're working to expand the
travel horizons for EV drivers. Yosemite is on our plan. Just a
few hundred more person-hours for that!
Since SPAM is a reality in 2005 - we're moving the EAA website to
a private server. Making major Internet architecture changes takes
resources. It takes time. Life intervenes.
Can you help us?
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world: indeed it's the only thing
that ever has." - Margaret Mead
"Be the change that you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi
Yours truly,
Ron Freund
EAA Chairman
Ron's opinions are not HP policy.
--
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 1:54 PM
>Subject: Re: LA Times front page article on EVs today
>If the EAA would not sleep so soundly, we would read more about
>ev's, we would see more charging stations, might have better
>batteries
>and we would not be treated like weird circus animals.
>
>I have never seen any club or association that does such little in
>regard to public relations, public opinion forming and lobbying as
>the EAA.
>They haven't even changed the website for quite some time.
>
>I have to ask myself why I am spending money on a membership.
>
>No wonder everybody believes EV'ers are nerds with an attitude.
>
>Michaela
>
--
In-line ATTACHMENT
Aug. 17, 2005
Big news!
After many months (about 24!) of negotiations and some
difficult construction, the new Electric Vehicle Charging
Station installation in Truckee, CA, is complete and
operational! Ta-da! The I-80 Electric Highway across
California is complete.
A trip from San Francisco to Reno via EV is now quite
feasible, with public charging stops conveniently located
all along the way. It's only 34 miles from Truckee to
Reno, so it's possible to travel from Truckee to Reno and
back to Truckee without charging in Reno, with plenty of
leeway for travel within the Reno area.
This project was funded by a Clean Air Grant from the
Placer County Air Pollution Control District, with
additional funding and much assistance from the
Truckee-Donner Public Utility District. The site is courtesy
of the Truckee Donner Recreation and Park District, with
the cooperation of the Truckee-Donner Historical Society.
Portions of the overall Placer County project were co-funded
by the Electric Auto Association (EAA), backed by a generous
donation from an EAA member. (Truckee is in Nevada County,
but was funded by the Placer County District since Truckee is
a major stop on I-80 on the way through Placer County.)
A listing will be published soon, with photos and maps. I
intend to take a RAV4 EV trip to Truckee soon, and Ed Huestis
tells me he may beat me to it.
Here are the details: (Note the address is 10115 Donner Trail
Road, but it is very near to 11570 Donner Pass Road -- subtle
difference.)
Truckee-Donner Historical Society
Meadow Park
10115 Donner Trail Road
Truckee, CA 96161
Meadow Park
Located directly behind the Truckee-Donner Public Utility
Building building (11570 Donner Pass Road), the park features
ball fields, new restrooms, a playground, a picnic area and
an open grassy area for play -- and a brand-new electric
vehicle charging station. (SPI, AVC, 5-20 GFCI)
There are many eateries and shopping opportunities (including
a Factory Outlet Store) along Donner Pass Road, near the charging
stations. In addition, the Truckee Trolley runs regularly to
downtown Truckee and other destinations. You can even connect
with transportation to North Shore. The Trolley runs hourly,
with twelve round trips per day, seven days a week between
7:00 a.m. and 7:00 p.m.
Colfax Amtrak station to 10115 Donner Trail Road, Truckee is
50.8 miles according to Streets & Trips. RAV4 EVs have made
the trip from Colfax (2466 feet) over Donner Summit (7239 feet)
to Truckee (5904 feet) several times, arriving in Truckee with
at least 30% SOC.
Here's the listing for the charging station in Colfax:
http://www.evchargernews.com/regions/95713_1.htm
The next nearest charging station is in Tahoe City (6281 feet),
just 14.2 miles from Truckee.
http://www.evchargernews.com/regions/96145_1.htm
Our next objective is a charging station in South Lake Tahoe,
for 2006. That would make U.S. 50 the second Electric Highway
all the way across California. We're working to expand the
travel horizons for EV drivers.
There is already a charging station in Placerville, on U.S. 50,
but it's 106 miles from Tahoe City. South Lake Tahoe will make
a good half-way point between Tahoe City and Placerville, and
make it possible to get to Tahoe by either U.S. 50 or I-80,
and to return by the other route if desired.
http://www.evchargernews.com/regions/95667_2.htm
Tom Dowling
--
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--- Begin Message ---
I'll just echo what David said. This truck is an outstanding
conversion, very professionally done.
The only gotcha is that they didn't make a lot of them and they vary a
lot. Mine, for example, had a single Brusa NLG412 (3.3KW) charger and
three strings of Hawkers originally, and Brusa motor controllers.
Others had three separate (1KW) chargers, one for each string. Still
others had Magnechargers! Others had Solectria's own motor
controllers. When I got mine, they had replaced the three strings of
Hawkers with two Deka Dominator strings. I just heard from a guy today
who has one with one string of 23 group 27 batteries for a 276-volt setup!
I guess this only goes to show how versatile and flexible the truck is.
All the systems are separate -- You could trash the controllers and AC
motors and put in a DC drive system. Or dump the charger and put in one
of the PFC units.
All I can say is, this is the finest conversion I have ever seen.
Rugged and well thought out, with an incredible attention to detail. No
chunks of plywood held together with duct tape here!
-Tom
Jim Coate wrote:
How would folks rate the Solectria E10 pickup truck in terms of being
"open source"? Are replacement batteries available on the open market?
Can a mere mortal do trouble shooting (or at least someone equipped
with a laptop and basic terminal software)? Can one system be replaced
without upsetting the rest? Can additional chargers be added without
it loosing track of capacity?
TIA.
Jim
--
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Excellent, thanks for your hard work!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:56 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: BMS - was PFC-30
>
> No idea yet - all depends on how much of its devlopment cost
> OEMs, who want it really bad, will be willing to recoup.
> I will be spreading out the rest of the cost.
>
> Somewhere between $1k and $10k isn't a very good answer...
>
> Victor
>
>
> Noel P. Luneau wrote:
> > Hey Victor!
> >
> > I have 30 Ovonic 9500 series NiMH batteries @ 13.2v, and
> rated current
> > is 85Ah at 25 degrees C.
> >
> > I assume that this your SmoothTalk system? It looks to be
> very cool
> > technology.
> >
> > Any idea of pricing yet?
> >
> > Noel
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> >>Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:00 PM
> >>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >>Subject: Re: PFC-30
> >>
> >>Rich Rudman wrote:
> >>
> >>>Not a simple question since the main hazzard of NiMh is the
> >>
> >>garrentied
> >>
> >>>thermal issues on the each end of the charge cycle.
> >>>
> >>>This I have done manually recently...
> >>>
> >>>If you have some form of temperature termination at the
> >>
> >>end of each
> >>
> >>>charge cycle, A PFC charger works rather well.
> >>>
> >>>But I don't track temp or amphours or Kwhr with my
> >>
> >>chargers. So... you
> >>
> >>>will need to support your own end of charge determinations.
> >>>
> >>>Yes I have done this... and no it was not hands off operation.
> >>
> >>Noel (and all)
> >>
> >>I will have something to fill the void in this situation very soon
> >>now. The gadget will do any profile you download in it, and it
> >>controls analog chargers like PFC series as well.
> >>
> >>Granted, it tracks temps, Ah charged and other things, treating
> >>external charger just as the brainless power stage.
> >>Basically it is a BMS, being external brains for various chargers.
> >>PbA Optimas, NiCd, LiIOns, whatever, it makes no distinction (works
> >>the same way) - just strictly follows the charging rules
> you set. But
> >>the responsibility to know and program these rules in is on you.
> >>
> >>What is the voltage for your NiMh individual batteries?
> >>
> >>--
> >>Victor
> >>'91 ACRX - something different
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential
> and privileged information. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return
> e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any
> distribution or use of this information by a person other
> than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Make it Big, make it Sexy, make it an EV and put in a loudspeaker to
make it rumble!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 3:07 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
>
> Sorry to say this Jerry, but Joe Average will never even
> consider driving something you're designing (3 wheeler). All
> I'm hearing from your posts is make it cheap cheap and then
> cheaper than that.
>
> I'm not saying that the cost should be ignored, but
> apparently it is not the top priority for a Joe buying SUVs
> and Hummers left and right.
>
> Victor
>
>
> jerry dycus wrote:
> > Hi Michaela and All,
> >
> > Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hello nerds :)
> >
> >
> > Not a great openning.
> >
> >
> > In order to make EVs more appealing to the Joe-everybodies, we need
> > more range. That means better batteries. What is the chance
> that some
> > of the people here start a kind of co-op to be able to
> handle (charge,
> > thermal
> > handling) and to order i.e. lithium batteries from Saft, Valence or
> > Thundersky in numbers?
> >
> >
> > They are no good canidates for this except Ni-cads
> as the others have either cost or other problems. It is quite
> easy with a good lightweight, aero EV to get a 100 mile range.
> >
> > You can ven get this range with lead batts if you
> design the EV correctly by using 50% batt weight with low
> aero/rolling drag. Lead batts are the way to go because they
> have the lowest cost of any other types. One thing few know
> is most golf carts have a stock range of 60-100 miles!!
> >
> > As for joe 6 pack, what you need for them is either
> education just like you need for a reg car though it's so
> ingrained no one thinks of it with ICE cars or just make it
> idiot proof.
> > HTH's,
> >
> > Jerry Dycus mm.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
>
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any
distribution or use of this information by a person other than the intended
recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have one in my Citi and really like it. Pretty much any flaw you
hear of regarding the Curtis controller, the AXE has addressed. It's
smooth, quiet, efficient and so far, reliable. If the datalogging is
accurate, it passes more than its 450 amp rating to the motor. About
the only thing I don't like is that it is potted which makes repairs
(practically) impossible. OTOH, if it practically never fails.
I wonder how much more the Fiat will weigh than the Citi? If it
weighs much more, the performance will be decidedly modest. My 72
volt Citi will keep up with traffic normally accelerating from a
traffic light but it won't outrun it. This is with fairly low gearing
and a top speed of about 50.
John
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 08:24:24 +1000, "Robert Chew"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>HI all,
>
>Just in the process of converting my Fiat 126 into electric drive. I really
>really want to use the Alltrax 7245 controller, 72 volts at 450 amps because
>its got an rs232 port to monitor and data log the parameters. I am doing my
>thesis on it. I know its cheap, i would like anyones thoughts on it. Also i'll
>give my specs of the car i am converting. It will weigh 750 kg all up, using
>Trojan SCS25 12 volts batteries, Uses a 6.7 inch advanced dc motor the K
>series, and running a 4 speed box with no clutch.
>
>Cheers
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's 9 megs or so...
--- Joe Vitek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > If someone has/is interested in hosting it, please
> > provide the link, so that I can update _my_
> website.
>
> How big is it? I could probably put it on my site
> that hasn't changed providers in, well,
> ever.
>
> --
> joe
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i have one driving a Lynch motor (3000km now) i'm pleased with it.
Data logging is a great feature for vehicle development.
I'm trying to have a connexion to a dashboard LCD + micro from alltrax
RS232, still spying the data though.
I heard about a 650 amp version, but never seen it for sell
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 12:24 AM
Subject: Alltrax Controller
> HI all,
>
> Just in the process of converting my Fiat 126 into electric drive. I
really really want to use the Alltrax 7245 controller, 72 volts at 450 amps
because its got an rs232 port to monitor and data log the parameters. I am
doing my thesis on it. I know its cheap, i would like anyones thoughts on
it. Also i'll give my specs of the car i am converting. It will weigh 750 kg
all up, using Trojan SCS25 12 volts batteries, Uses a 6.7 inch advanced dc
motor the K series, and running a 4 speed box with no clutch.
>
> Cheers
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So I've put some thoughts on paper as to what I want in my conversion -
this is what I have so far:
-Dodge Ram 1500 or Ford F-150
-Toneau cover, lowered, lightweight hood, etc (for lowering drag)
-Remove all ICE components
-Solectria AC55 bolted directly to the differential (~10:1 ratio with
custom gears)
-Solectria UMOC445 controller w/regen
-PFC-30 or 50 charger
-Solectria 13.2v DC/DC converter
-Power brake/steering assist
-Homebuilt peltier A/C
But what should I do about batteries? Do I stick with the US145s?
Optimas? Are there other options available? Evercels? NiCads from
SG-Photo? I want to do a 312v pack. Obviously I'd like as much range
as possible. I figure I've got up to a ton of weight to play with (once
I remove all the old ICE stuff, I already have about a ton of difference
between curb weight abd GVWR).
Thanks everyone.
-Sam
--- End Message ---
