EV Digest 4622
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EV digest 4620/power steering
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Power Steering MR2
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Alternative batteries
by James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Battery calculation, NiCad vs. LeadAcid
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Power Steering Mazda 3, MR2
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Where can I get a 48 to 12v dc/dc to power my Emeter/Relays?
by Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Life at Manzanita
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Hughes Magnacharger installation
by Jacob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Zilla Backorders
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Reversing contactors -- Am I missing something?
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Hughes Magnacharger installation
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Netgain Warp Dimensions
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Belt Drives
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: Correct AGM finish charge (Was: Re: PFC-30)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Zilla Backorders
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Zilla FS (was Re: Zilla Backorders)
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Battery calculation, NiCad vs. LeadAcid
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Battery calculation, NiCad vs. LeadAcid
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) E-Vision (was: Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.)
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Belt Drives
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Zilla FS (was Re: Zilla Backorders)
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Zilla FS (was Re: Zilla Backorders)
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Battery calculation, NiCad vs. LeadAcid
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: Battery calculation, NiCad vs. LeadAcid
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
34) Re: Belt Drives
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
35) Re: Belt Drives
by "Ray Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
36) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
power steering fluid:
I was speaking of an accumulator. The storage comes from the
compression of something else (a gas, or a spring). You can buy them
off the shelf. You are right in that the fluid itself compresses very
little (although it is non-zero).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_accumulator
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cwarman wrote:
Off hand,
Does anyone have one of the Toyota MR2 Electric pumps being used for
powersteering ? Can you give the Year of the cars this was on and if
possible a part number if you know it ?
The power steering pumps were on Gen 2 (mkii) Toyota MR2 (the curvy
one). They were sold in the US from 91-95, although they were available
worldwide for a somewaht longer run (thru about 97 I think)
Mark
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--- Begin Message ---
There is another aspect to battery life that may not be considered, and
that is labor. Even if a "high tech" pack *is* more expensive in the
long run, there is a value to *not* having to change the batteries.
I just swapped out the batteries in my Elec-Trak. Now that is only 6
batteries and they are (arguably) very easy to get to, but it took me a
very sweaty and curse filled hour to do the move. *IF* someone said
hey, here is a new battery pack that will last 2x as long as your old
one but cost 2.5x the price, I might consider it *JUST* because I don't
have to do that job again. If I was older (or lazier) I'd be even more
willing.
On an EV this is a HUGE concern when you are schlepping in/out 20+
batteries, especially if they are hard to get to.
James
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ralph,
I guess so, that's what I was trying to say - if it's working that
way in thousands of production EVs, perhaps it's a good lead to
follow. Sorry your Nicads died though :(
Regards
Evan
On 8/24/05, Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Evan,
>
> Those are the official specs. What I learned after my NiCads died a
> couple of years ago is that there appears to be a 250 amp maximum limit,
> which if exceeded will cause a "significantly reduced lifetime".
>
> SAFT's spec claims 200 amps continuous and 500 amps for 10 seconds, but
> gives no other rating. There is no guidance for current draws between
> 200 and 500 amps. This alone makes me nervous about that range...
>
> Maybe this is why your vehicle has a 180 amp limit?
>
> Ralph
>
>
> Evan Tuer writes:
> >
> > Hi Ralph,
> > Just to be precise...
> >
> > For the 100AH cells:
> > Constant 200 A
> > Peak (10 s) 500
> >
> > On the PSA EVs, using the water cooled version, the limit is around
> > 180A and the car will generally draw around 100A on a flat road.
> >
> > Regards
> > Evan
> >
> > On 8/24/05, Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Michaela,
> > >
> > > On the SAFTs, the voltage drop will be about 7 volts per 100 amps.
> > >
> > > Also, do your calculations with a 250 amp limit. SAFTs don't like
> > > to experience current draws more than 250 amps. This may mean that
> > > you need more modules for a higher voltage pack to get the power
> > > you want.
> > >
> > > Ralph
> > >
> > >
> > > Michaela Merz writes:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello Everybody:
> > > >
> > > > I have started to do some basic calculations on my new S-10 project.
> > > > Based
> > > > on the experiences with my current Nissan pickup, I have some figures to
> > > > work with.
> > > >
> > > > Trojan T-125, 22 batteries, 130 Ah/C1
> > > >
> > > > Available energy: 17 Kw (Voltage sag not calculated)
> > > > Weight: 660 Kg (1455 pounds)
> > > > Range at 60 Mph: About 35 Miles
> > > >
> > > > Saft Nicad STM 5-100 100 AH/C3
> > > > Available energy: 14.4 Kw (Voltage sag not calculated)
> > > > Weight: 286 Kg (631 pounds)
> > > >
> > > > I don't know the C/1 value for those Safts, but I can save 800 pounds of
> > > > weight by losing about 3 Kw of available energy. Question is, how can I
> > > > set the weight loss in relation to the loss of Kws? And, NiCads don't
> > > > experience that kind of voltage drop as i.e. those Trojans. If I would
> > > > change the Trojans against Safts .. would I win or lose range?
> > > >
> > > > mm.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is also a common part on the Peugeot and Citroen vehicles over
here, I think it's fitted to the smaller cars which perhaps don't have
room for a belt driven pump (and my EV). They're regularly on UK ebay
for reasonable prices for example: 4569572095
Perhaps these cars are common in Canada?
Regards
Evan
On 8/24/05, Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just to add to the potential selection, Farver and I recently noticed (and
> I've verified online) that the Mazda 3 also has electrohydraulic power
> steering, like the Gen-2 Toyota MR2.
>
> Perhaps this will eventually take over as the ideal source of electric
> power steering pumps, as the MR2 parts get harder to find....?
>
> --chris
>
>
>
> Cwarman said:
> > Off hand,
> >
> > Does anyone have one of the Toyota MR2 Electric pumps being used for
> > powersteering ? Can you give the Year of the cars this was on and if
> > possible a part number if you know it ?
> >
> > Cwarman
> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This one supplies 13A at 15v [two diodes would drop this to ~13.6v]
Requires a 5v signal to turn on, or so they say. $25
<http://mpja.com/productview.asp?product=11325+PS>
This one has a 12v/10a output but is rather large, though inexpensive $19:
<http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=480&item=PS-526&type=store>
I bought one of these myself:
<http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=480&item=PS-4350&type=store>
Only outputs 12v 3a/3a but you can parallel them to 6a. It's a good size
and only $20
Outputs 15v 3.4A $8
<http://meci.com/Catalog/Item/c1f60d4d-606c-4619-99e5-d90a5d6b9329>
12v 4.2A $8
<http://meci.com/Catalog/Item/164f1824-b86a-4562-8de9-d0e7fb919e83>
--
Martin Klingensmith
Mark Hastings wrote:
I pulled the 12v lead acid battery off my tractor because flooded nicads and
flooded lead don't mix*.
I basically tapped 12 volts of the pack to run my emeter and my on off
switches. Since I charge each block individually this isn't much of a problem
and I unplug my emeter after the run and charge so it doesn't drain down. I
have tried online in vain to find all those 48v to 12v converters surplus but
can't find any below 100$ does anyone know where I could find one? I need one
for the tractor. My EV Motorcycle I may buy one with high output because it
needs it for the lights but the tractor just needs to run the two small relay
coils and the emeter for 2 hours a week.
Thanks,
*At least according to my flooded nicad manuals. They say that the lead acid
fumes can destroy the nicad batteries.
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--- Begin Message ---
The 'Former is due in my shop today...
Funn with Steel and aluminum
I intend to have LOTS Of phots of this Baby.
I can't tell you publicly where it's going. Clearly fleet service work.
List is about $40K for now...
less if you are helping with the R&D, and don't mind some first off
oddities...
The spec is 75Kva from the grid. And what ever actually gets to the stinger
the better.
We hope to cover 100 volts to 425 volts with some transformer taps, and main
stage is water cooled IGBT modules.
Out of time for E-mail this morning...
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: Life at Manzanita
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> > 480 3 phase and have a 560 lbs 60 hz isolation transformer on board..
This
> > charger will weigh in at about 800 lbs.
>
> You've got to get some pics of this thing before you ship it off!
> Where's it going anyways and what will it be used for? If you made
> these for sale, what's a price point that it wouldn't sell for any
> less then; just to give me an idea of this thing...?
>
>
> > somewhere in the old AC drive inventory stuff
>
> Is this project on hold and might potentially see the light of day?
> What were it's target specs? Target price point? (just for future
> reference and planning.)
>
> What AC motors did you have in mind for it to drive?
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello EV friends,
I'm wondering if anyone out there has experience with Hughes Magnacharger
installations. I'm getting one soon and want to prepare my garage. Any
knowledge regarding requirements for wiring, shielding, and placement would
be gladly appreciated.
Thank You
Jacob Harris
Sebastopol, CA
96 Solectria E-10
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You need a better soldering iron. =) I suggest a Metcal.
Otmar wrote:
Yes, it is true.
I hand build every Zilla and usually have a good idea where they are.
I don't know anyone who has stock. Just a couple weeks ago, for the
first time in a year I had factory stock on six units, but within a
week they sold out. There may be some customers who have them but have
not installed them yet.
I'm very sorry for the delays.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:10:58 -0700, Victor Tikhonov
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Neon John wrote:
>
>>
>> I hate to say this, Victor, but that name really sucks. I have no
>> idea what an Evision is. IMHO, a name ought to give some indication
>> of what the product is or does.
>>
>> John
>
>EVision is a gadget providing "Vision" for your EV [electrical system]
>- you can "see" how everything is doing. Thus the name.
>Take it as E-Vision (instead of E-Meter) if you like :-)
>
>I guess, there is no way to please all, some like it,
>some don't. How would you name it?
How about "Total Battery Awareness"? :-) I dunno. I'm not real good
at creative names. One of the things that really turns me off is that
almost 100% of the time, when someone or something claims to have
"vision", it's time to put on the chest waders...
>
>BTW, from the name "Link-10" you can't really tell what
>the gadget does. Does this name sucks too then? Just wonder.
Yes, sucks bilgewater, particularly since E-meter was so descriptive.
I blasted them several times in email but to no avail. Except when I
can't give someone a direct reference to it on the web, I still call
it the E-meter. "Link-10" sounds like something to do with golf.
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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--- Begin Message ---
As I understand it, for a main contactor, something like the Kilovac
EV200 (Czonka III) is quite capable of handling the Battery -->
controller current. The motor current is considerably higher, depending
on the controller.
The part I don't understand is that the EV200 is rated at 200A
continuous, while the reversing contactors I see available (Albright
SW202) are rated at 250A continuous, 360A intermittent which seems
really really low if you're using something like a Z1K.
Am I missing something fundamental? Are reversing contactors generally
only used for lower-powered vehicles? Or do people simply run them past
their rated current regularly?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure.
The Magnecharger can pull 26+ amps when running at full blast. Thus you
need at least* a 30 amp breaker. However that's constant, and any
breaker (well, or anything) is rated at 80% of it's nameplate rating for
constant loads.
Thus you need a 40 amp breaker. Which requires 8 gauge wire. Do not
skimp on this.
Other than that it's hang and go :-)
Chris
Jacob wrote:
Hello EV friends,
I'm wondering if anyone out there has experience with Hughes Magnacharger
installations. I'm getting one soon and want to prepare my garage. Any
knowledge regarding requirements for wiring, shielding, and placement would
be gladly appreciated.
Thank You
Jacob Harris
Sebastopol, CA
Œ96 Solectria E-10
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They are the same dimensions as ADC, except the Impulse 9" which is shorter and
I have ordered for my car.
Mark Ward
St. Charles,MO
95 Saab 900SE
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
>
> From: Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2005/08/24 Wed AM 08:36:06 EST
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Netgain Warp Dimensions
>
> Speaking of which , ive read that the WarP 9in DC motor is of the same
> dimensions as the ADC9 motor, so im assuming that the motor mounts in
> the kits that places like EvAmerica and Canev would fit the Warp9 ?
>
> Cwarman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jerry,
I am looking to determine the following for my Kawasaki Ninja EV. Any
questions you can answer would be appreciated.
First some background info. Direct drive (no trans) 520 "O ring" type stock
chain with a 3.13 to 1 final ratio (15t front and 47t rear). I have plans to
increase the ratio to ~ 4.0+ to 1 with either a rear sprocket change to
improve acceleration which would require a new longer chain or I might move to
a
completely belt drive set up using a gates poly chain (Harley like set up).
This last option of course assumes that a suitable ratio can be purchased.
ADC 6.7" motor running at 72 volts (YT AGMS).
Highway speeds required ~65 MPH
1) Is there a material difference in drive-line loss between an O ring type
motorcycle chain and a non O ring (bicycle like) chain? I believe that the O
rings will have greater drag assuming both chains are is good condition and
are free of dirt.
2) Is there a material difference in drive-line loss between a chain and
belt drive set up?
3) Do you have a source for belts and the required "sprockets" (don't know
what the cogged equivalents are actually called)?
4) How to mount the cogged front to the output shaft of the ADC motor? Has
anyone done this?
Any advice greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike Bachand
Denver Electric Vehicle Council
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
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--- Begin Message ---
David (Battery Boy) Hawkins wrote:
...
Cyclic or series string applications 14.7 volts, temperature <125F, no
current limits. When current falls below 1 amp, finish with 2 amp constant
current for 1 hour.
Yer, we know from NREL experiments that pulse finish charging (30s
on/30s off) greatly benefits cycle life. I'n sure Optima is aware of
this. Yet, no mention of this. Why? Because altheough they know it is
better, they assume no one has such a charger so no reason to bother?
My dream YT charger that you could give to a "customer" with a brand new
un-abused pack would have a 90-260 volt input. It would bulk charge the
...
How many years have we been talking about this needed charger?
BB
I have your dream charger on my bench *now*. I realise that
doesn't help you.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
I know. Bur Lee, for one, does not use these day's computer.
And it is not fair to force him to. THere are others (in minority,
but exist) I'm sure.
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
At 06:47 PM 8/23/2005, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
I was assuming that these days it is not an issue to get
some sort of memory card reader for a computer, but may
be naively wrong. Anyway, RS232 will be there (isolated :-)
These days, it's hard to NOT get one with any new computer.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
At 8:47 AM -0700 8/24/05, Eric Poulsen wrote:
You need a better soldering iron. =) I suggest a Metcal.
I've got two of them, they are amazing!
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe Smalley wrote:
...
5) Cruise control senders put out a frequency proportional to the speed
typically four cycles per revolution. Voltage rises with frequency.
I don't understand - are you asking for EVision to provide signal
for cruise control[ling drive system], or you're talking about
external existong sensors putting out freq signal EVision can use?
10) What does the application need to run? Windows? Linux? DOS? OS9?
PC windows application. This is what the progremmer uses to
develop the software and has the tools for, not because
he loves Microsoft more than Apple.
For this reason, I'm making sure *everything* you can do with
PC's help you can do using push buttons, although it can be more
tedious. At least one time deal.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
If anyone's after a Z1K-LV and hairball, please let me know. I have one
which I am in no danger of getting installed and actually at the moment I
think I'd rather have the money.
Let me know,
Derrick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Michaela,
>
> I'm doing a S-10 conversion also and one formula that I have come across
> is Range = amp hrs at 1 C rate * pack voltage/ watt hrs per mile. I
> figure 300wh/mile, I'll have an 180 v pack so I'm hoping to get about 80
> miles, driving without a lead foot.
That's 180V with very little load and a fully charged pack. The average
voltage over a complete discharge is closer to 165V. That gives you a
range 'till dead of about 71 miles.
And, of course, that's with a properly broken in pack that isn't too old.
As the pack ages the range will drop. This is why folks usually spec a
range to 80% DOD, because generally even an old pack can still do 80% of
it's new range. Now your looking at a range of 57 miles, give or take.
HTH
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
...
Saw going to ask for this , so could pull the card out and put it in the
home comupter and see the whole charge , discharge cycle ?
Yes, you have comma delimited ASCII stream of all the values logged
every so often (100ms to 500ms) continuously. A large card (like 500MB,
quite common for dig. cameras these days) with hold about 2 weeks
worth of 10 parameters stored every 100-500ms 24/7. After that it is
owerwriting the oldest data so you always have latest 2 weeks
(or whatever capacity your card allows) worth of data. Oldest data
will be lost.
You massage/analyze/plot downloaded data with regular excel off line
if this is of the interest.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
> With only 22kW in a heavy truck, the acceleration will be pretty poor
> and keeping up with 55mph traffic would be "flat out". Also the range
> won't be very impressive.
You aint kidding about that. My Truck's batteries (120V of 8VGC) was
about 30 kw.
0-60 acceleration was approx 80 seconds. Note that is 80 not 8.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 23, 2005, at 6:47 PM, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
So, super bright 7-segment LEDs, LCD, or both?
(you can get and plug either one you like including both
at the same time)?
One thing about LCDs is that the higher temperature rated units are
needed for automotive use (perhaps not in my beach buggy, but its
unique.) Another point is that an LCD display with backlighting is
needed for night driving (and I would prefer to separately control that
so I can connect it to my dash lights.)
Lee brought up some interesting points about LED vs. LCD. Both have
times when they can be hard to read. My concern about LED is how hard
they can be to read when the sun shines right into the display. LCD can
be hard to read at dawn and dusk unless well backlit.
Its not a critical choice, well, so long as a unit appropriate for
automotive use is chosen. Its unlikely to make or break a sale.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:47:32 -0700, Victor Tikhonov
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Thanks for the input Lee.
>
>The consensus seem to be about everything but display unit.
>
>LEDs are "old" technology (nothing wrong with them in itself).
>Not as old as Nixie tubes, so we'll survive :-)
>Hard to read at direct sun light.
>
>LCDs are more fragile, but the brighter - the better.
>Wide view angle isn't really nesessary - driver's
>position is pretty much fixed and you can point the
>unit torard you. But the temp affects LCD the most.
I vote strongly for LEDs. They are the most readable under all
conditions, even direct sunlight for the brightest ones, can be read
from any angle (very important to me, as I'd want to be able to read
the meter while in the passenger seat or when working on the car),
work best with night vision and, important for us older geezers,
easiest to read with poor eyesight. LCDs are comparatively hard to
read under all conditions, very difficult to read with peripheral
vision, slow or stop in cold weather, turn black in hot weather and
difficult to read with poor vision.
A very good A-B comparison is my GoBig scooter. I have an E-meter
mounted on the "dash" down at feet level. On occasion I attach a DVM
to the same area to monitor more than one reading at once. The DVM I
use has 1.25" high digits. While I can read the E-meter without
having to look directly at it, I cannot read the much larger LCD
digits without taking my eyes off the road.
Before you make a final decision, Victor, I suggest you do some A-B
testing with a variety of people to see which they like better. I
believe it will be LEDs if they have the LED and LCD side by side.
If you're going to provide a pluggable display, perhaps you could
offer both at some point.
Another option I suggest is have the LED display in the center with an
LED bargraph wrapping around the outside. This is the best of both
worlds. One can see trends in the bargraph and read precisely with
the LED. This has become the defacto standard for process control
systems, especially where hazardous processes are controlled. Even if
the display is graphic, the dual format is very frequently used.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
BTW, from the name "Link-10" you can't really tell what
the gadget does. Does this name sucks too then? Just wonder.
Yes, sucks bilgewater, particularly since E-meter was so descriptive.
I suppose "Metric Mind" then sucks the most... No way to tell what I do.
So is Cafe Electric.
So is Manzanita Micro.
So is BRUSA, Russco (which are last names) etc...
> I hate to say this, Victor, but that name really sucks. I have no
> idea what an Evision is.
Hate to say it John, but I think I'm going to keep it.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
> 1) Is there a material difference in drive-line loss between an O ring
> type
> motorcycle chain and a non O ring (bicycle like) chain? I believe that the
> O
> rings will have greater drag assuming both chains are is good condition
> and
> are free of dirt.
O-rings chains initially have higher loss, however, the O-rings hold the
oil in. Non O-ring chains tend to go dry fairly quickly (solar race cars
usually have chain oilers that can be used while driving), once the oil is
gone, their loss climbs above O-ring chains.
However, a good bike chain lube can last 200-300 miles before needing to
be cleaned and relubed.
> 2) Is there a material difference in drive-line loss between a chain and
> belt drive set up?
According to some online material I read about Gates Polychain (high
efficiency toothed belt) belt losses are relatively consistent (for a
given belt) regardless of power level. When run right at the maximum
torque limit, belt drives are more efficient than chains. However this
usually only happens when climbing hills etc. At less than maximum
torque/power, a well oiled chain is more efficient.
Motorcycles like them because they never need to be lubed.
I don't know how a belt compares to an O-ring chain.
Also, belts supposedly don't respond well to regen applications (if that's
a concern)
> 3) Do you have a source for belts and the required "sprockets" (don't know
> what the cogged equivalents are actually called)?
Motorcycle shops would be the obvious answer. Also industrial part
stores. Warning! They can be very expensive.
> 4) How to mount the cogged front to the output shaft of the ADC motor?
Usually with a woodruff key and set screws (the shaft is slotted) though
you can also buy keyless hubs just like most conversions use for the
flywheel adapters.
> Has anyone done this?
Sure, lots of people.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
10-4 on that. I spent a long lifetime one summer near Granbury, TX
working on the Comanchee Peak nuclear plant. I had an off-site office
near the plant. The fisrt thing I'd do when entering the office after
a field trip was to put my calculator in the fridge for a bit so that
the LCD would turn clear again.
It got so hot that summer that the rear deck speakers in the rental
car actually melted. The office AC system could not handle the load
so we sweltered. That was a LONG summer!
LCDs were and are totally unsuited for those conditions. That's why
the auto companies have avoided LCD technology. It just can't take
the cold or the heat.
John
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:48:59 -0700, Victor Tikhonov
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Have you ever lived in Texas?
>I have for 10 years.
>
>You put your hand on the dash at noon and you get burn mark.
>What kind of compensation are you talkong about if the
>LCD working temp spec is 0-70'C and the dash is at 110'C ??
>LCD glass will crack before you know it.
>
>Danny Miller wrote:
>> Temp comp the LCD display. Works like a charm and you should never need
>> to do a contrast adjustment.
>>
>> Danny
>>
>> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>>
>>> LCDs are more fragile, but the brighter - the better.
>>> Wide view angle isn't really nesessary - driver's
>>> position is pretty much fixed and you can point the
>>> unit torard you. But the temp affects LCD the most.
>>
>>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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--- Begin Message ---
John, thanks for good suggestions! Input taken.
Neon John wrote:
I vote strongly for LEDs. They are the most readable under all..
I will be LEDs in the first release.
Before you make a final decision, Victor, I suggest you do some A-B
testing with a variety of people to see which they like better. I
believe it will be LEDs if they have the LED and LCD side by side.
This is why I'm asking people on EVDL.
If you're going to provide a pluggable display, perhaps you could
offer both at some point.
Another option I suggest is have the LED display in the center with an
LED bargraph wrapping around the outside. This is the best of both
worlds. One can see trends in the bargraph and read precisely with
the LED. This has become the defacto standard for process control
systems, especially where hazardous processes are controlled. Even if
the display is graphic, the dual format is very frequently used.
This is exactly what's planned. You can see basic idea the same as
in these links:
http://www.egauges.com/vdo_agrp.asp?SName=Mounting_Accessories
http://www.xtremeautos.ie/clcoks.asp (scroll down to 3410LED model)
http://www.cycleshopusa.com/p1178.htm
http://www.marketworks.com/StoreFrontProfiles/DeluxeSFItemDetail.aspx?sid=1&sfid=78392&c=374146&i=19415799
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
Derrick, how much are you asking for your Zilla ?
Cwarman
Derrick J Brashear wrote:
If anyone's after a Z1K-LV and hairball, please let me know. I have
one which I am in no danger of getting installed and actually at the
moment I think I'd rather have the money.
Let me know,
Derrick
.
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--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Cwarman wrote:
Derrick, how much are you asking for your Zilla ?
It's brand new and unused or installed, $1950, I'll entertain other
offers.
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Saft STM5-100 are rated by Saft for 200A CONSTANT and 500A (10sec)
in 120V French electric car, battery amp allowed is 200A max (full throttle,
red part of "eco-meter")
I controled max bat amp with OEM diag console while driving.
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: Battery calculation, NiCad vs. LeadAcid
> On 8/24/05, Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Everybody:
> >
> > I have started to do some basic calculations on my new S-10 project.
Based
> > on the experiences with my current Nissan pickup, I have some figures to
> > work with.
> >
> > Trojan T-125, 22 batteries, 130 Ah/C1
> >
> > Available energy: 17 Kw (Voltage sag not calculated)
> > Weight: 660 Kg (1455 pounds)
> > Range at 60 Mph: About 35 Miles
> >
> > Saft Nicad STM 5-100 100 AH/C3
> > Available energy: 14.4 Kw (Voltage sag not calculated)
> > Weight: 286 Kg (631 pounds)
>
> ^^^^^^ Be careful - kW is a measurement of power, not energy.
>
> > I don't know the C/1 value for those Safts, but I can save 800 pounds of
> > weight by losing about 3 Kw of available energy. Question is, how can I
> > set the weight loss in relation to the loss of Kws?
>
> That's about 22 x 100MREs. With a current limit of 180A, you will
> have more like 22kW of power, and around 15kWh of stored energy.
>
> With only 22kW in a heavy truck, the acceleration will be pretty poor
> and keeping up with 55mph traffic would be "flat out". Also the range
> won't be very impressive.
> I would recommend more batteries (meaning a higher system voltage), or
> use the higher capacity 140 or 180AH modules.
>
> Of course, it depends on what your requirements and budget is... what is
it? :)
>
> --
>
> EVan
> http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
>
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--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 24, 2005, at 10:41 AM, Neon John wrote:
LCDs were and are totally unsuited for those conditions. That's why
the auto companies have avoided LCD technology. It just can't take
the cold or the heat.
I'm curious. One place that a number of cars have adopted the LCD is
the the odometer display. How are they keeping that thing readable? It
seems like it could get WAY to hot packaged behind clear plastic in the
generally dark color speedometer head.
Paul "neon" G.
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Saft STM5-100 give C/3 rated capacity(100ah) at 1C !
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 7:11 AM
Subject: Battery calculation, NiCad vs. LeadAcid
>
> Hello Everybody:
>
> I have started to do some basic calculations on my new S-10 project. Based
> on the experiences with my current Nissan pickup, I have some figures to
> work with.
>
> Trojan T-125, 22 batteries, 130 Ah/C1
>
> Available energy: 17 Kw (Voltage sag not calculated)
> Weight: 660 Kg (1455 pounds)
> Range at 60 Mph: About 35 Miles
>
> Saft Nicad STM 5-100 100 AH/C3
> Available energy: 14.4 Kw (Voltage sag not calculated)
> Weight: 286 Kg (631 pounds)
>
> I don't know the C/1 value for those Safts, but I can save 800 pounds of
> weight by losing about 3 Kw of available energy. Question is, how can I
> set the weight loss in relation to the loss of Kws? And, NiCads don't
> experience that kind of voltage drop as i.e. those Trojans. If I would
> change the Trojans against Safts .. would I win or lose range?
>
> mm.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:37 AM 8/24/2005, you wrote:
> Has anyone done this?
Sure, lots of people.
Like the Corbin Sparrow. (admittedly, not an exactly great example...)
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In the early 80's I worked at a Kaw dealer. In this time frame Kaw made a
belt drive LTD 440. The belt required a special gauge for tensioning
because it required a lot of tension to work correctly. This made for a lot
of drag from all the pressure put on the trans output shaft brgs and the
wheel brgs.
An oring chain does have a lot more drag when compared to a non-oring chain.
O-ring chains are required equipment on high HP-high speed bikes because of
lube loss on non-oring chains. Low hp - low speed bikes don't abuse their
chains as bad and can get by with non-oring. Low HP roadracing bikes always
run non-oring to avoid the drag. Use a very high quality chain and lube it
well at the end of every day and it will last a long time.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:52 PM
Subject: Belt Drives
> Hi Jerry,
> I am looking to determine the following for my Kawasaki Ninja EV. Any
> questions you can answer would be appreciated.
>
> First some background info. Direct drive (no trans) 520 "O ring" type
stock
> chain with a 3.13 to 1 final ratio (15t front and 47t rear). I have plans
to
> increase the ratio to ~ 4.0+ to 1 with either a rear sprocket change to
> improve acceleration which would require a new longer chain or I might
move to a
> completely belt drive set up using a gates poly chain (Harley like set
up).
> This last option of course assumes that a suitable ratio can be
purchased.
>
> ADC 6.7" motor running at 72 volts (YT AGMS).
>
> Highway speeds required ~65 MPH
>
> 1) Is there a material difference in drive-line loss between an O ring
type
> motorcycle chain and a non O ring (bicycle like) chain? I believe that the
O
> rings will have greater drag assuming both chains are is good condition
and
> are free of dirt.
> 2) Is there a material difference in drive-line loss between a chain and
> belt drive set up?
> 3) Do you have a source for belts and the required "sprockets" (don't know
> what the cogged equivalents are actually called)?
> 4) How to mount the cogged front to the output shaft of the ADC motor?
Has
> anyone done this?
>
> Any advice greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike Bachand
> Denver Electric Vehicle Council
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
>
>
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Actually I do live in Texas. Car's interior can go to 130F, maybe 150F
under absolute worst conceivable case, which is the upper limit of the
LCD's specified storage temp. Temp on top of the dash can be higher,
which is why you would not mount the LCD on top of the dash. Those
temps will melt a plastic enclosure so the LCD is hardly the only problem!
It's just not as hot inside the dash itself. Staying out of the direct
sunlight is key.
LCDs can be backlit with CCFL (fluorescent) or EL
(electroluminescent). EL actually has a somewhat limited lifespan if
driven brightly and/or with poorly shaped waveforms. EL can always be
dimmed to any brightness given the proper driver. CCFL is generally
much brighter than EL but cannot be dimmed easily. There are CCFL
drivers with some degree of dimming capability, it's not perfect and
dimming may have negative consequences for the tube life. EL drivers
are considerably less complex than a CCFL driver. CCFL takes more power
than EL.
There's also LED backlights, many 2-line alphanumerics use them. Simple
to drive and dim. It is more difficult to evenly distribute the light
over a larger area so they do not get commonly used for larger LCDs.
Danny
Paul G. wrote:
On Aug 24, 2005, at 10:41 AM, Neon John wrote:
LCDs were and are totally unsuited for those conditions. That's why
the auto companies have avoided LCD technology. It just can't take
the cold or the heat.
I'm curious. One place that a number of cars have adopted the LCD is
the the odometer display. How are they keeping that thing readable? It
seems like it could get WAY to hot packaged behind clear plastic in
the generally dark color speedometer head.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
