EV Digest 4644
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Adapter plate buisness
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: I have lost my BC 20 LB 20 installation diagram
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: The Saturn is Alive!
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: S10's SOC meter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 24 volt contactor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: I have lost my BC 20 LB 20 installation diagram
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Brush advance
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) 24 volt contactor
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) re: Kelvin Connection
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Kelvin connection
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: 24 volt contactor
by "Emmerick, Craig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: 75mpg Hybrid you can build.
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: testing used batteries
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Todd DC to DC Converter
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Buses talk...
by Tony Godshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Thundersky Batteries
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 2000 mile range EV?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Adapter plate buisness - dimensioning
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: John Wayland does Radio Talk Show
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: 24 volt contactor, continued
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) AGM's, Gells, sealed batts, oh my
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: John Wayland does Radio Talk Show
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Give it to me, I will make a quick cad drawing and post it on a web site
I plan on building later.
I think an actual plate design might be considered proprietary but the
pattern is existing and I think should be "open source" allowing us to
all verify and tweak it.
I measured the 3liter 1987 motor from my 300zx conversion and this is
the part of the adapter plate I came up with that shows the tranny bolt
pattern
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/
about the 4th link down:
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/Z31_non-turbo-pattern.jpg
Disclaimer, this is not a website, just an area on my machine I am using
to put files discussed with people and for the list.
I tend to agree with Christopher Robinson on the concept but some cars
are going to make sense in inch, some in metric. So a standard may not
make sense. A primary dimension in the base units and the converted
dimension in converted units is common. Look at that nissan pattern,
inch dimensions would be 2.205in and 3.189in but are 56mm and 97 mm.
Even that is not the whole picture, sometimes they move stuff over to
make up for casting changes and the dimensions make little sense at
all. I should of and will create a drawing that is the pattern and not
my plate, since that engine can be found in many vehicles and that plate
drawing is too "busy" and individualistic. This is a cartesion drawing,
x and y. Some engines will make sense when you look at them as 2
patterns at an angle from each other.
I am gonna recommend an image in jpg format of the cad drawing with a
dxf file for download, all the laser and water jet guys can read a dxf
file and all cad programs output it. That way all can see,print, check,
or download and play with.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My boost transformer is bare. No box just the transformer. 6 connectors
on one side and some on the other side that I have wired in with small
bolts holding everything very well. As I have it wired now the neutral
goes stright into the BC 20 and the hot (black wire) goes thru the boost.
I'm not getting much from it at the moment. Maybe one volt raise.
Current doesn't even register. I've used a 116ohm and a 102 ohm resistor
and nothing. I might go back to the 120v setting and see if that still
works. I do think I have it miswired. Also the diagram is totally
different from the transformer I have. LR..............
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Those airbags look a little weak. They may not be designed for the kind
of weight we are dealing with.
I work for the parent company of slam specialties
http://www.slamspecialties.com/
I have been around for the testing of the first generation bags which
were great and the newest generation bags are even stronger.
We are talking 900psi+ burst pressures. If you think you are only going
to put 100psi in them, well that 100 really shoots up when you go over a
bump with a lot of weight and volocity.
What happens to the lower strength bags at high pressure?
if they don't go "pop", they grow in diameter and rub
The lower strength bags are really flexible and bounce a lot, the
heavier duty bags have a natural dampening effect. A lot of vehicles run
the shock thru the coil spring, so you must consider this.
The main market for these is the kids who like to jump their vehicles, (
if those kids only spend the kind of money they spend on their rides on
an EV conversion, wow.) I would be curious about how an EV would ride
with them. I may need them, my conversion is starting to sag just
playing with battery placement this week.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul G. wrote:
> I've been looking for a simple ah counter.
Well, look for a Curtis "Indachron" timer. This is a glass tube with
mercury inside it, like a thermometer. There is a wire coming out each
end, which connects to the mercury inside. There is a tiny bubble of
nitric acid electrolyte that breaks the mercury into two halves. It is
placed over a printed scale just like a thermometer. The bubble gives
you the reading.
It's a zero-volt rechargeable battery. Zero volts because both "plates"
are the same metal (the mercury); thus no voltage difference. When you
run current thru it, mercury deplates from one end, and plates onto the
other end. Thus the bubble moves! It takes a precise number of amphours
to move the bubble from one end to the other. Each electron moves one
atom of mercury.
Thus, it is a precise amphour counter. In normal use, the scale is
calibrated in hours. It is connected to some fixed voltage source (like
a product's regulated power supply) thru a precision resistor. The
resistor determines the current, and thus exactly how long it takes to
move the bubble from one end to the other. For instance, 100 hours at
1ua, 10 hours at 10ua, 1 hour at 100ua, etc.
When the bubble reaches either end and there is no more mercury to
transfer, the base metal of the terminal is exposed. Now you *do* have
two different metals, so there *is* a voltage difference. The
mercury-mercury voltage is just a few tenths of a volt (resistive;
depends on the current), but the mercury-terminal voltage is over 0.7v.
So, it was wired across a transistor base-emitter junction so the
transistor turned on when the Indachron reached the end. The transistor
could then turn on a light or alarm as needed.
For an EV, just connect it across a suitable shunt, so the shunt creates
a voltage, and this voltage flowing thru a resistor makes the Indachron
count at the desired rate.
Old technology, but you can't get a simpler amphour meter than this! :-)
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tony Godshall wrote:
>> You needn't have bothered, Lee. Victor resorted to
>> "the experts use it, so there" logic.
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Not quite, I don't use it blindly just because experts said so.
> When experts explain why it is preferred and I understand and
> agree, then it is a good technical reason to follow.
> Not just aurhority.
I agree. Victor wants an "off the shelf" solution; something already
designed and debugged and on the market so he can design it into his
product today; CAN provides this. He wants a bus with performance "good
enough" for his application; CAN is being used in vehicles, so it has a
good chance of doing this as well. Besides, he sells Siemens controllers
and Brusa chargers, both of which use CAN bus. So his decision is
obvious.
I was working on a very high performance EV (Rick Woodbury's 300v
1500amp Tango). The noise levels were far worse than a normal car, so
CAN was inadequate. That led me to design my own bus (EVILbus). It
provides the isolation and extra noise immunity that CAN doesn't. But
the tradeoff is that it's so new that there are no chips or software for
it -- you have to build it yourself.
If I were to rank buses for suitability in an EV, I'd say
SPI worst
RS-232 bad
RS-485 good
CAN better (because software adds error detection and correction)
EVILbus best
With CAN, you can get "canned" chips and software. The others are just
hardware standards; you have to write or find software yourself.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
> I happened across a 24 volt contactor and thought I'd give it
> a try... 1800 amps... Prestolite JHA-4121B... Does anyone know
> a way to use this with a 12 volt system?
It sounds like a contactor for switching the 48v battery backup packs in
Telco (telephone company) systems. It should be fine in EVs up with up
to a 48v pack. To go higher, you'd have to rewire the contacts in
series. For instance, a couple cuts in those copper slabs would
reconnect its three 600amp contact pairs all in series for a 3 x 48v =
144v 600amp system.
When you say "24 volt", do you mean the coil is rated 24v, or the
contacts are rated 24v? If it's the coil voltage, it will pull in slowly
if at all on 12v. Slow pull-in will damage the contacts. A quick-n-dirty
way to drive a 24v coil from 12v is to use a relay, capacitor, and some
diodes as a one-shot voltage doubler. When the relay is off, its
contacts open the 24v coil and connect the capacitor across the 12v
input. When the relay is on, it wires the 12v input and capacitor
(charged to 12v) in series to hit the contactor coil with 24v. But in a
fraction of a second the capacitor runs out of charge, and a diode
across it carries the 12v input current to the 24v coil to hold it
pulled in.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think I just sent it to you off-list, b/c the list
hacks attachments, if I recall.
peace,
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>
>
> > My boost transformer is bare. No box just the
> transformer. 6 connectors
> > on one side and some on the other side that I have
> wired in with small
> > bolts holding everything very well. As I have it
> wired now the neutral
> > goes stright into the BC 20 and the hot (black
> wire) goes thru the boost.
> > I'm not getting much from it at the moment. Maybe
> one volt raise.
> > Current doesn't even register. I've used a 116ohm
> and a 102 ohm resistor
> > and nothing. I might go back to the 120v setting
> and see if that still
> > works. I do think I have it miswired. Also the
> diagram is totally
> > different from the transformer I have.
> LR..............
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think the difference between ICE and eletric motor advance is that on
an ICE we are proactivly advancing the spark to anticipate the need to
get the explosion happening sooner. In the electric motor we are
reacting to the armature reaction that distorts and pulls the field more
and more due to the rpm. It is pulled past the ideal crossover point
causeing voltage to still be avail at the brush when it comes off the
bar thus draging an arc.
experts please correct me if this is wrong, it is how I remember which
direction is which.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave,
I've rewound Albright contactors for 12V from both 36V and 24V coils. I
would be glad to share the calculations and gory details if you are
interested.
Jim - '93 Dodge TEVan
"Breathe Easy - It's Electric"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To mount my hienamann breakers by the, big lugs, I just went to the
local motor shop and bought some of that fiberglass board they use to
mount motor terminals and such on. We call it bakelite (almost slang).
They had it in 1/16,1/8,1/4,3/8 and 1/2
Maybe that will work for you?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you read the instructions for the regs you will notice that if any reg
comes on solid, the charger is set too high and needs to be turned DOWN.
To help remind you to do that, you can put a seat belt buzzer or sonalert on
the external load pins of the first reg to come on. When it blinks, it makes
a sound and you know your charger is making the reg blink. If it comes on
continuously, turn the charger down.
Once you know how to set the charger, you can remove the noise maker and be
reasonably confident that the regs won't burn up.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:02 PM
Subject: Kelvin connection
> I want to connect my regs to the batteries in the back of my Aspire. 8
feet
> or so. There isn't a good spot in the back anymore. I want them under
the
> hood along with my other regs. What is a good material to attach
everything
> to. I used plastic last time and the external loads melted through and
even
> melted into one battery. The REG ABUSER. Lawrence Rhodes.......
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> 415-821-3519
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jim
Please do share the knowledge of 12v wound contactors.
Thanks
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 5:32 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: 24 volt contactor
Dave,
I've rewound Albright contactors for 12V from both 36V and 24V coils. I
would be glad to share the calculations and gory details if you are
interested.
Jim - '93 Dodge TEVan
"Breathe Easy - It's Electric"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
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If you are not the intended recipient of this communication, please discard
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--- Begin Message ---
Danny,
Go back and read the whole article carefully and slowly. They are talking
about at least three different vehicles in the artical. The vehicle that
get's 129 mpg is NOT a hybrid. It's an extremely lightweight (675lbs),
custom built, desiel vehicle. They don't list a speed, just "suburban
driving" so presumably that means at 30-35 mph. They do list a top speed
of 45mph for this vehicle.
The hybrid that ME built got ~60 mpg, running without the batteries
connected, at 45 mph using a 12 hp diesel engine. Given the components
they were using that seems a little high, but believable.
They also claimed up to 89 mpg, running with 6V GC batteries in a charge
depletion mode (I.e. 89 miles for ONE gallon of gas and a full battery
pack)
It's also important to note (at least to me) that the vehicle's top speed,
on level ground, is 45 mph.
Hmm, they seem to have a thing for building vehicles with a top speed of
45 mph.
60 mpg at 45 mph, is relatively easy to achieve. Getting 60 mpg at 60 mph
is a bit tougher, and none of the vehicles listed are even capable of
reaching that speed (in the listed configuration).
12hp is STILL not enough for a normal car to cruise at 60 mph, even it
they didn't have dual conversion using low efficiency components.
> Was that sarcasm?
>
> It starts out saying they couldn't replicate the results, like they're
> debunking it... then claim it needs a 6.4 hp diesel engine rather than
> the 5 hp in the plans and then it gets 129 mpg in urban driving at up to
> 45 mph.
>
> Danny
>
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
>>Ahh, now those are much more believable figures.
>>
>>Thanks for the link.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Here is the follow-up article...
>>>
>>>http://www.motherearthnews.com/top_articles/1980_September_October/Mother_s_Own_Hybrid_Car_
>>>
>>>Danny Miller wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Anybody know the drag coefficient and rolling drag of that Opel? We
>>>>could calculate just how fast 5 hp would take you... in reality only a
>>>>portion of that hp will not make it to the wheels in such a setup
>>>>either.
>>>>
>>>>Not only does it brag of 75 mph, inside the article it mentions a 90
>>>>mph top speed. My question is, just how steep of a hill was it going
>>>>down at the time?
>>>>
>>>>Danny
>>>>
>>>>Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Larence,
>>>>>That vehicle has been debunked numerous times. I believe even Mother
>>>>>Earth printed a statement indicating that they could NOT duplicate the
>>>>>authors claims.
>>>>>
>>>>>The controller doesn't work as described, and a 5hp lawnmower engine
>>>>>isn't
>>>>>anywhere near big enough to power that vehicle at highway speeds.
>>>>>I doubt it could go 75 miles (at highway speeds) on a gallon of gas an
>>>>>a
>>>>>full battery pack.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It depends on your application.
If a battery is rated .005 ohms, the specification suggests that when you
draw 1000 amps from the terminals, the terminal voltage will drop from 12
volts to 7 volts (1000 amps times .005 ohms is 5 volts).
Typically, a tester has a constant resistance (instead of a constant
current) and you will need to simultaneously measure both the current and
voltage to get your measurement.
If you use a tool like
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=91129, you
will need to write down the current and the voltage under load. For example:
400 amps at 7 volts is (12-8)/400 = 10 milliohms.
This battery would be good for only about 200 amps before the terminal
voltage goes under 10 volts. Drag racers pull their batteries down below six
volts but it is not something you want to do on the street. With this
internal resistance, you can get only 2000 watts out of each battery.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Clifford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: testing used batteries
> Thanks Joe!
>
> Could you give me an example or point me at a resource that would give me
a range of values that would indicate good/fair/poor from this point of
view?
>
> Carl
>
> >The fast way to check their internal resistance is with a starting
battery
> >crank tester. They draw several hundred amps for a few seconds and you
read
> >the voltage at the end of the test. Test several batteries and find out
what
> >is 'normal' for them. If the batteries for sale drop quickly, the
internal
> >resistance is too high and they produce good voltage but will never
produce
> >enough current to move a car.
> >
> >Joe Smalley
> >Rural Kitsap County WA
> >Fiesta 48 volts
> >NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Note that my statement is an AND statement.
To destroy them, run them at full current AND mount them horizontally.
IF they are mounted vertically with good airflow, they will not overheat.
IF they are run at less than their rating with good airflow, they will not
overheat.
I don't know how much they need to be derated for horizontal mounting.
I know I blew up two of them running them at full power mounted horizontally
but others run fine at full power when mounted vertically.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: Todd DC to DC Converter
>
> On Aug 29, 2005, at 11:07 PM, Joe Smalley wrote:
>
> > -They are intended to be mounted on end and will overheat if mounted
> > flat
> > and run at full current.
>
> That has not been my experience. They have to have free air movement
> around them but I have not mounted them on end. The one in the EV Buggy
> has been fine and the one in the VW Pickup I sold has only been damaged
> by being run under 90 volts input (the MUR 460 diodes had to be
> replaced.)
>
> Paul "neon" G.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> >Looks like there is a fight going on over CANbus.
>
> No, no fights. I just mentioned my bus choice and reasons for it.
> Feel free to use what you like, no one will fight you.
Don't you hate it when people take vigorous discussion as
fighting? People are too damn sensitive these days.
> >but CANbus is far superior to RS232 in an automotive or EV
> >environment, in my experience. Do I know exactly why? No.
Of course. Who would promote RS232?
> But we were comparing RS485 physical implementation with CAN,
> not RS232. RS232 is not used in cars just like PCs aren't
> (hobbyists don't count). RS232 is OK for the office environment.
Yes RS232 would be silly. Why have to do +- 12V and accept it's
noise and distance limitations?
RS232 isn't even good in an office environment compared to
the alternatives. Have you noticed how few RS232 devices
there are now? Even historical inertia can be overcome.
Almost everything these days is RS422-style balanced pairs-
RS485, 10BaseT, 100BaseT, etc. They give you distance and
noise immunity without excessive power or bulky shielding.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For a simplified 48V system, I would recommend 4 Interstate DCS-75 batteries
(more Amp-Hrs, lower cost, about the same size as Optimas) in parallel with
a string of 14 of the 100 Amp-Hr. TS cells. Connect the strings in
parallel, with a contactor to disconnect the TS string when not charging or
driving. Charge from one charger set up for 48V of AGM batteries. It works
well enough with nothing fancier than that. I recommend the use of suitable
regulators for both battery types. This is basically half of what I am
doing now with a 96V system of 8 Interstate DCS-75 batteries and 28 of the
100 Amp-Hr. TS cells, so this would be for a small, light EV only.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: Thundersky Batteries
Peter wrote:
Any suggestions on "lightweight" packs (7-8 kw usable) near the same
size?
You could get Hawkers that would fit. They are a high-quality lead-acid
AGM battery, very similar performance-wise to the Optimas, but come in a
much wider range of sizes.
You have a 48v system, right? Another possibility might be to use half
Optimas, and half Thunderskys. The Optimas provide the high peak power,
and the Thunderskys provide the long range. It would require two
separate chargers and a control system that allowed you to transfer
charge between the packs as needed.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Danny Miller" <
You're not seriously comparing these on a per-pound basis, are you??
Sandbags are cheaper per pound than lead acid...
I'm just trying to get a feel about what the cost is , we have a few things
to deal with and I want to take some of them out of the equation like cycle
life , if a battery last 4 time as long and cost 4 time as much , for my
coparison I'm saying their the same .
You'd compare as $ per usable amp-hr as the primary figure.
If we are talking ah the we will have to keep the voltage the same . example
2 golf cart bats 100 ah ( ev usable) and $ 100
1 orbital 32 ah $ 100
4 TS li-ion cells 12.5 ah ( at $2 ah X 4 as you need 4 cells to make a 12v
battery) now if the TS li batteries last twice as long as the lead we would
have to 2x the 12.5 to be fair so
25 ah $100
The Valance have a 2000 cycle at 80 % dod so even though they come in at 8
ah for $ 100 we must muitply by 5 becuse they will last 5 times as long
gives us
40 ah for our $100 .
now to go to the next step and thats the weight savings. the 2 golf cart
batts are 135 lbs for 100 dollars , I could pay $ 330 for the same power
and weight , just in orbitals or $400 for the TS but they'd weighed 35 lbs
. Or $250 for the Valance ,same 35 lbs. So to me the Valance batteries look
good for my lawn mower project, yes they will cost more that my old friends
the golf cart battery but how much . I can look at it like a golf cart
battery that weighted 16 lbs and cost $125 . This looks like a pretty
good deal to me for the lawn mower.
My ev lawn mower may get 5 cycles on some days , so the 2000 cycles is
good and like lead less dod means more cycles . . The real life of the
battery or number of cycles is not realy known
Not only
can you multiply it by its expected lifespan versus another tech, but the
lower weight means a lighter can so you should be able to get more range
per unit of usable capacity.
yes , with my lawn mower project I will need alot of wh to cut just one yard
like 2100wh ( I did find that by going slower I could cut this in half )
and I am thinking of 4 yards per charge 8kwh needs about 12 golf cart
batts over 700 lbs , wooooo this is why I have to go with the Li to make it
work , as 200 lbs will be ok but 700 won't .
There's another multiplier. Of
course other issues such as instantenous discharge capacity also need to
be considered.
I still don't buy that they've addressed the cell management and cell
equalization issues of 10,000 cell banks.
yes and that they spent almost twice what the valance batteries cost. Its a
little like running a car of bic lighters . theirs gas in dem dar lighters ,
pipe 10,000 bic lighters together and see how far you can go. So why didn't
they use big cells , ?
steve clunn
Danny
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
Yes and at 80,000 for 1,000 lbs that's 80 a pound , not near as good a
deal and what people are using on the list . The 210 lbs pack that I'm
thinking of using for my lawn mower will only cost about $50 a pound ,,,
I'd like to do a little serve
If they started making a golf cart battery that weighted 4 times as much
260 lbs ( for this serve we'll say same cycle life) , twice the size but
only cost $5 would anybody use them in an EV ?
for me this would be just unuseable .
how much would you spend for a golf cart battery that weights 17 lbs and
1/2 the size ?
for my ev's I think I might go $150 or 3 time the cost for 1/4 weight ,
but for the lawn mower $450 as the weight is very important / and 800 lbs
of lead will just make it unusable but 210 would work.
as the Li-ion should get 4 times the cycles we;ll cut the price per pound
by 4 so our Li are $12.5 a lbs where the golf carts are 1 dollar .
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Adapter plate buisness
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 19:39:10 +0000
I measured the 3liter 1987 motor from my 300zx conversion and this is
the part of the adapter plate I came up with that shows the tranny bolt
pattern
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/
about the 4th link down:
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/Z31_non-turbo-pattern.jpg
Jeff - Nice drawings - more people should do this.
There seems to be an error in the dimensioning, though.
The 8 3/8-16 tapped holes are labled with "6"BC" but it sure looks like
that's not the right dimension. "BC" means "bolt circle", and that refers
to the diameter of the circle that the holes are on. You probably meant
that those holes have a radius of 6 inches. If that's right, the diameter
is twice as large, and it should read "12" BC...."
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I could be Sparky (as I've been called since age 4 when I put paper clips &
keys in outlets) and then we could be The Three Stooges! :-) Well, I had 3
years acting lessons to be a comedian but then just became a funny engineer.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: John Wayland does Radio Talk Show
> It would work if you talked about all forms of electric motivation from
> scooters to trains(that includes barstools & couches). If you had NPR
> support that would be great. The tappet bros started on their local
> station. You might also talk about alternative energy. I think it'd be a
> winner. LR....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 9:38 AM
> Subject: Re: John Wayland does Radio Talk Show
>
>
> > Hey John, Maybe we should start our own radio talk show where people
call
> > in with questions about their electric cars. We could name it " EV Talk"
> > with Arc and Flash, the two Sparky brothers :-) "Don't do wheel stands
> > like brother Arc and don't plasma ball your motor like brother Flash."
:-)
> >
> > Roderick Wilde
> > "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> > www.suckamps.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 8:08 AM
> > Subject: Re: John Wayland does Radio Talk Show
> >
> >
> >> Hello to All,
> >>
> >> Roderick Wilde wrote:
> >>
> >>> I just got a call from my friend and fellow Amphead John Wayland. He
> >>> played me a recording of a conservative talk show he called into and
> >>> blew the hosts mind about performance EVs.
> >>
> >> John Westlund wrote:
> >>
> >>>Anyone happen to have a clip of this call-in? I'd like to
> >>>hear the reaction of the radio host to this. :-)
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Yes, I have it on an audio CD and will try to post it to my website
> >> tonight. In Portland there's a company called Moba Media that
> >> automatically records pretty much every radio and TV channel receivable
> >> all day and all night long. You can call them up to three months after
a
> >> broadcast and get either audio or video from them for a fair
> >> price...cool! I've used them over the years to get copies of stuff I've
> >> done. After the very impromtue radio thing, I had Moba take care of it
> >> for me and bill it to my account, then let the CD sit there for two
weeks
> >> before finally taking the time to go over and pick it up.
> >>
> >> As usual, there's a funny story attached to this. I really don't plan
> >> these things that happen to me...really, they just 'happen'.
> >>
> >> OK.....I was driving down the freeway in my clattering diesel work
> >> service truck, a cab-over Isuzu where the large 5.2 L turbo four pounds
> >> away right under your butt as you roll along in a 14,000 lb. box on
> >> wheels. I'm in the morning rush hour traffic on the I-84 and am on my
way
> >> to an industrial dairy at Swan Island to do forklift wrenching, when I
> >> decide to click on one of my favorite talk shows 'The Lars Larsen
Show'.
> >> I like to get a balance of liberal and conservative views, and so
listen
> >> to all sorts of talk radio if I'm getting windshield time in the truck,
> >> and KXL radio is my choice for the conservative slant on things. On
this
> >> day, representative Jeff Kruptt is standing in for Lars, and as I turn
on
> >> the radio I catch the tail end of a conversation about the neighboring
> >> city west of Portland, Hillsboro, and how the city is switching over to
> >> hybrids for their detectives and officers to use. Most of what I hear
is
> >> negative comments from obviously ill-informed officers, most of whom
> >> haven't yet experienced the likes of bigger hybrids like the Accord V6
> >> that gets up to 37 mpg and yet accelerates to 60 a full 2 seconds
sooner
> >> than the Ford Crown Victoria V8 that these same officers feels has the
> >> 'power' they need to catch bad guys. They talk of 'dinky' weird cars
with
> >> no trunk space for weapons and such, even thought the Accord has a
> >> roomier trunk than the Ford. I'm hearing about how the hybrids are a
bad
> >> idea because they must be s-l-o-w like all alternative fueled vehicles
> >> are. As I listen, I hear an uneducated attitude as the hybrid bashing
> >> continues. A caller or two makes good points about their experiences
with
> >> their hybrids, but the same negative spin from law enforcement types
who
> >> speculate that the hybrids won't work for anything because of lack of
> >> power, keeps creeping in....something has to be done!
> >>
> >> I'm thinking, why bother calling? I'm in a noisy work truck, I'm in
> >> traffic, I've got work to do, I've got a less than stellar cell phone,
> >> I'm pulling off the freeway and heading into the drop-out zone of the
> >> lower river section near the island, and even if I call in and can get
> >> through the usual busy signal (it's a very popular show that covers the
> >> entires Pacific NW area) I'll bee put on hold and in the cue for at
least
> >> 45 minutes.....and, there's the added fact that the parts guys back at
> >> the work office listen to the same show and their radio can be heard
> >> around the nearby cubicals...yeah, that would be good for my superiors
to
> >> hear, Wayland jabbering on about stuff on the radio instead of working!
> >> Nonetheless, I'm compelled to dial up the radio station, and so I do
it.
> >>
> >> Ring...ring....ring...c-click "KXL, you've called the Lars Larsen Show.
> >> What topic are you calling about? Where are you calling from? Why
should
> >> Jeff want to hear from you?"
> >>
> >> As I tell her that the host has got it all wrong and spout out what
must
> >> have hit the right 'hot buttons', she puts me on hold...then I hear the
> >> broadcast over my phone and can hear Jeff about to go to his next
> >> call-in. I'm expecting that I'll be on hold like this for maybe a half
> >> hour or so, and am prepared to hang up as I'm just 5 minutes away from
my
> >> customer location, but within maybe 20 seconds of being put on hold I
> >> hear Jeff say, "Let's go to John in Portland"..... seems I was put at
the
> >> top of the call-in list! Now I'm in a panic as I'm trying to close the
> >> windows, shut the overhead bee catcher, pull off to the shoulder
> >> somewhere, and shut down the incessant Diesel noise maker.
> >>
> >> I barely get stopped when I'm suddenly on the air! I won't go into the
> >> meat of what we talked about, but let it suffice to say that it went
very
> >> well, and once I mentioned 'fast EVs' things shifted into high gear! I
> >> even got to give my web page URL. I got a plug in for the Friday night
> >> drags, too. About 45 minutes after my intervue when returning from a
> >> commercial break, evidently Jeff and his crew had perused the Plasma
Boy
> >> Racing site, as he gave quite a glowing review and slowly and clearly
> >> told his audience that they just had to go to the site...he even had
the
> >> stats of White Zombie correct.
> >>
> >> So tell me, what are the odds of this? Immediately after I get off the
> >> radio interview about alternatives to gasoline use, and as I pull back
> >> onto the road, the guy in front of me in his pickup stalls out and
rolls
> >> back towards my service truck behind him. I turn on my flashers and
give
> >> him space to backwards roll off onto the shoulder where I had just
> >> been....seems he just ran out of gas!!! He's all embarrassed as he
tells
> >> me he thought he could make it to a service station, and how he's never
> >> ran out of gas before. I opened the back of my service truck and
handed
> >> him a gas can filled with gas that I keep for the air compressor on
> >> board....it was his lucky day.
> >>
> >> You know, with material like this, I'll never run out of stories.
> >>
> >> That night, Mark Farver called to tell me we had over 5800 page hits
> >> during the hour of my radio interview! I'll try my hand at sending up
an
> >> audio track to the web page tonight so I can share this with everyone.
> >>
> >> I think it was a pretty good interview, but screwed up when I said
there
> >> was video showing my car beating a Viper. I was thinking about the
> >> 'Mustang race' video but at the same time was seeing pictures in my
head
> >> of my car pulling away from a Viper at Woodburn most of the way down
the
> >> Woodburn track, plus, I was thinking of Rod's Mazda running in videos
> >> against a Viper, and in all the excitement and adrenalin rush of being
on
> >> live radio, I somehow morphed the Zombie vs the Mustang race into a
video
> >> of my car racing a Viper ...oh well, I'm not perfect. I 'would' like to
> >> find out who's got that video footage of my car taking care of that
Viper
> >> in the 1/8 mile someday, as it would be a nice addition to the video
> >> section of the web page. Had it not been for a bad battery that let go
on
> >> that run, the Zombie may have indeed, taken the Viper that ran a low 13
> >> on that day.
> >>
> >> See Ya... John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
> >>
> >> http://plasmaboyracing.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> >> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/84 - Release Date:
8/29/2005
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/85 - Release Date:
8/30/2005
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This reminded me of an event at work recently...
A coworker asked me about something... so I fired up a browser and started a
search with him looking over my shoulder...
he commented.. " What, are you the last Dogpile holdout?"
I stated that I am very pleased with the ability of Dogpile to find information
for me.
At about the time the results came back and he was shocked.. had been looking
all morning on Google with no luck, but there was the info he was looking for
in the first three hits from Dogpile.
I found the EVDL from a Dogpile hit...
I am not affiliated with the company, just a happy user.
Basically what it does is sends your search to all the major search engines,
including Yahoo and Google, then compiles the results for you on one or more
page(s).
www.dogpile.com
Stay Charged!
Hump
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Cover
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 9:21 PM
To: EVList
Subject: 24 volt contactor, continued
Well, Google is better than Yahoo for searches. I just found a page about
the contactor, here's the link.
http://www.prestolitepower.com/products/sku.cfm?SKU_Id=12564
Is this worth using? I got it for a real good price. I haven't hooked it up
to 12 volts to see if it will pull in, but I will as soon as I find a wiring
diagram. There are at least 4 connections coming out of the coil body. There
is a small silver box that is supposed to be an economizer circuit but I
don't know if it's working.
Thanks,
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I bought a Sep-Ex Bombardier with 6ea 12V sealed AGM (I was told) batteries
enclosed inside the tunnel (no access). I was told they were Trojan's group 27
size, (maybe like a 27TMH). I've always used floodies. What is the difference
between the various sealed batteries?
I was told (by www.peacockltd.com the now parts supplier for Bombardier) that
AGM's last the longest, is that true?
Would Optimas work? Does anyone have one of these vehicles and have you cut
out the tunnel top to make the batteries accessible and reinforced the frame?
I find it industrial strength stupid not to have the tops of the batteries
accessible even if their sealed. I like to keep them clean and periodically
make sure the connections are tight, not to mention replacing them every 10k
miles. Maybe this thing with less batteries might be a good candidate for
better battery technology, (but ni-cads have a drinking problem).
Thanks, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It was the 80mp PNGV program (to have them on the road by 08') cancelled in
2000 (by you know who). We simulated at GE a diesel hybrid that was close
to that and VW at the Monaco show (April 05') said they will have a diesel
hybrid in 06' that will get 75mpg. I saw a guy who put a 3 cylinder Kabota
diesel tractor in a Austin Heely Sprite and got 80mpg (back in the 60's).
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: John Wayland does Radio Talk Show
> Lawrence, your comment reminded me of something I did see Rush say on a
show
> which must have been almost 15 years ago. Forgive me if I get things
wrong,
> this is from memory.
> Someone (Clinton or Gore?) was pushing a program to develop cars that got
> 50 mpg, and Rush was blasting the idea. He said something like, "This is
> ridiculous, there's already a car that gets 50 mpg. It's called the Geo
> Metro and nobody wants one!"
> Fast forward to today when you have a waiting list to get a Prius.
> I wonder if anyone has a transcript of that?
> -Mike Ellis
>
> On 8/30/05, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Was the show Rush Limburger? LR...........
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:22 AM
> > Subject: Re: John Wayland does Radio Talk Show
> >
> >
> > > Anyone happen to have a clip of this call-in? I'd like to
> > > hear the reaction of the radio host to this. :-)
> > >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
