EV Digest 4685
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Used EV's
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Used EV's
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Another newby's take on racing
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: Used EV's
by Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV and vehicle speeds, was: No Interest in Electric Drag Racing?
by Stefano Landi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Another newby's take on racing
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Used EV's
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) (no subject)
by Kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: No Interest in Electric Drag Racing?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Fw: I Can't Afford My Gasoline
by "Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Modified that Beetle
by Gnat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: My Second EV!!!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Used EV's
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Used EV's
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) DCDC selection
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Modified that Beetle
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: AGM battery mgmt system
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Siemans EV Motors
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Contactor on all the time or controlled by the pot box?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: AGM voltage under test
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Siemans motors
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Seems like the length of the list at Trading Post is
getting shorter. I wonder if anyone is tracking the
sale of decent rigs lately.
I'm considering selling the Civic and doing a RAV-4,
b/c of the low seating position & wife's back. (Or is
it just that I'm not happy unless I'm building
something, and there's nothing left to work on on the
Civic?!!!
peace,
--- Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >ditto, I'd like lists of sites showing EVs for sale
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/
>
> http://www.eaasv.org/
>
> http://www.eaaev.org/
>
> http://www.evadc.org/for_sale..html
>
> http://www.phoenixeaa.com/
>
> http://www.nbeaa.org/sale.htm
>
> http://home.att.net/~NCSDCA/EVAoSD/forsale.htm
>
> http://neeaa.org/forsale.htm
>
> http://www.lveva.org/For_Sale/for_sale.html
>
> http://www.oeva.org/forsale/
>
>
> .
>
>
>
>
> Roy LeMeur
> Olympia WA
>
> My Electric Vehicle Pages:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
>
> Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
>
> EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
> http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
______________________________________________________
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
if I thought I'd fit in the civic I'd want to buy it :o/
very large guy needing an EV here :o)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: Used EV's
Seems like the length of the list at Trading Post is
getting shorter. I wonder if anyone is tracking the
sale of decent rigs lately.
I'm considering selling the Civic and doing a RAV-4,
b/c of the low seating position & wife's back. (Or is
it just that I'm not happy unless I'm building
something, and there's nothing left to work on on the
Civic?!!!
peace,
--- Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>ditto, I'd like lists of sites showing EVs for sale
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/
http://www.eaasv.org/
http://www.eaaev.org/
http://www.evadc.org/for_sale..html
http://www.phoenixeaa.com/
http://www.nbeaa.org/sale.htm
http://home.att.net/~NCSDCA/EVAoSD/forsale.htm
http://neeaa.org/forsale.htm
http://www.lveva.org/For_Sale/for_sale.html
http://www.oeva.org/forsale/
.
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
______________________________________________________
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<<<If I bought a used EV conversion/scooter/whatever. Pound per pound it will
be cheaper per mile than any ICE vehicle. That's the truth. The average
used Ev is about 5k. I know of an Electravan 600 for 3900. Do the math.
With Electircity at 5 cents a KWH from PG & E there is no reason to drive
gas local. Lawrence Rhodes..........>>>>
My electricity is 12.5 cents a KWH, and if I went with the TOU charges to get
the 5 cent rate at "off-peak", the several hundred KWH per day it takes to cool
my house in summer's >100 degree weather would be more like 20-30 cents per KWH,
and negate any EV-charging savings.
And as for the cost per mile, my "commuter" is also a "beater", that is an ugly
car that runs well, bought for ~$1500, gets 33-36mpg, and if it ever needs more
than a couple hundred bucks in expenses, it's gone to the salvage yard and
replaced with another car that will probably have the same >200K on the odo
this one had when I bought it...currently running fine after 10K mi, so if it
dies in another 5K mi, that's 10 cents per mi.
EVers just don't get into this to save money, unless they have time and
resources to get old/used/unwanted stuff and the ability to do all their own
mechanic work and mechining. There are already enough overweight Americans to
justify *not* encouraging some of them to plunk their fat butts on escooters
when they could do with a few miles of walking.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
how much and where located?
A
Bob Bath wrote:
Seems like the length of the list at Trading Post is
getting shorter. I wonder if anyone is tracking the
sale of decent rigs lately.
I'm considering selling the Civic and doing a RAV-4,
b/c of the low seating position & wife's back. (Or is
it just that I'm not happy unless I'm building
something, and there's nothing left to work on on the
Civic?!!!
peace,
--- Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
ditto, I'd like lists of sites showing EVs for sale
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/
http://www.eaasv.org/
http://www.eaaev.org/
http://www.evadc.org/for_sale..html
http://www.phoenixeaa.com/
http://www.nbeaa.org/sale.htm
http://home.att.net/~NCSDCA/EVAoSD/forsale.htm
http://neeaa.org/forsale.htm
http://www.lveva.org/For_Sale/for_sale.html
http://www.oeva.org/forsale/
.
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
______________________________________________________
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been watching this thread with interest and I'd like to point out my
own situation. My Ford Festiva conversion that I'm currently working on will
have a top speed of about 40-50 MPH and rather slow acceleration. So to
prepare myself so to speak I've started driving my ICE (Toyota ECHO) the
same way as I will experience in my EV. Truth be told I do get passed by
many a drivers, some of them even shaking their fists or with one finger
extended. Now remember at this point I'm doing maybe 35-40 MPH in a 30 MPH
zone, so technically I'm already over the speed limit. But what erks me is
that about 2 miles down the road I just saddle right up next to them at the
red light. They don't seem to notice that their accelerations and their
excessive speed isn't getting them anywhere any faster. True on the highway
a difference of 10-15 MPH will garner you some time, but is it worth the
extra wasted gasoline and the risk? Perhaps I'm old fashioned or TOO green
if there is such a thing, but I find that over the last few weeks of driving
at my new EV speed and mode I'm more relaxed when I get to work/home and my
car uses much less gas and at almost $6.00 CDN / gallon let me tell you that
is sweet to my pocket book. I'd love to see rules enforced to slow down
vehicles. As it is the average speed on a commute here in Montreal isn't
much more than say 30 MPH, so those 260+HP SUV/LUX cars/Sports cars aren't
really all that impressive. However, when I see a little SMART car go buy or
a hybrid then I beam a great big smile at the driver with an obligatory
thumbs up. I'm not against racing or high technology in automobiles on the
contrary, but it's the constant need for more power that I just don't
understand. I'm guilty of one thing, a powerful stereo as I love to listen
to my music since I do have a little more time in my car on my commutes.
Sorry for the politics and thanks for allowing me my rant.
Stefano
On 9/9/05, Adams, Lynn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yeah, I have the practical, clean, quiet transportation with my 500 mile
> per week civic with a pack of 18 T890's and like it for all the reasons
> you stated, but I'd still like to see what the little civic would do in
> the 1/4 mile with a 180 V pack of optima's....
>
> Lynn
>
> See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Andrew Letton
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:11 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: EV and vehicle speeds, was: No Interest in Electric Drag
> Racing?
>
>
> Meta Bus wrote:
>
> > My point was not to criticize electric dragsters, but to express my
> > dismay at what I see-- an unfortunate focus, reminiscent of old daze.
>
>
> Take heart Jim-
> While it is true that of late (i.e. Racing Season) the conversation here
>
> often focuses on drag racing, I would venture that the vast majority of
> subscribers to this list are not racers or even racer wanna-bees, but
> rather people who are interested in EVs for the practical, clean, quiet
> (and fun!) hobby and transport that they provide.
> cheers,
> Andrew
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What about a Solectria Force?
The newer ones are being asked for between 10 and 17K. A lady on the Force EV
site just reported she paid 17K for a newer model.
What gives... The reason I'm asking is that there are two in the bay area going
for 13 to 17K. Is this too much?
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 9/9/05 2:47:29 PM
To: "Kluge"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "ev@listproc.sjsu.edu"<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Another newby's take on racing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kluge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To be blunt, EV's are not economically practical right now. Not with gas at
$3, not at $5. A cheap, high mileage gasser will net out less than any
converted EV dollar-wise mile for mile and be easier to operate, more
reliable, and have more utility in terms of speed, range, etc. than anything
we can cobble together in our garages and backyards
If I bought a used EV conversion/scooter/whatever. Pound per pound it will
be cheaper per mile than any ICE vehicle. That's the truth. The average
used Ev is about 5k. I know of an Electravan 600 for 3900. Do the math.
With Electircity at 5 cents a KWH from PG & E there is no reason to drive
gas local. Lawrence Rhodes..........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The RAV4 sounds like a fun conversion... Anyone done any private conversions?
Are you going AC or DC Bob?
For info, anyone know what motor and controller Toyota used in their RAV4-EV
conversions?
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: "Bob Bath"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 9/9/05 3:57:43 PM
To: "ev@listproc.sjsu.edu"<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Used EV's
Seems like the length of the list at Trading Post is
getting shorter. I wonder if anyone is tracking the
sale of decent rigs lately.
I'm considering selling the Civic and doing a RAV-4,
b/c of the low seating position & wife's back. (Or is
it just that I'm not happy unless I'm building
something, and there's nothing left to work on on the
Civic?!!!
peace,
--- Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >ditto, I'd like lists of sites showing EVs for sale
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/
>
> http://www.eaasv.org/
>
> http://www.eaaev.org/
>
> http://www.evadc.org/for_sale..html
>
> http://www.phoenixeaa.com/
>
> http://www.nbeaa.org/sale.htm
>
> http://home.att.net/~NCSDCA/EVAoSD/forsale.htm
>
> http://neeaa.org/forsale.htm
>
> http://www.lveva.org/For_Sale/for_sale.html
>
> http://www.oeva.org/forsale/
>
>
> .
>
>
>
>
> Roy LeMeur
> Olympia WA
>
> My Electric Vehicle Pages:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
>
> Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
>
> EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
> http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
______________________________________________________
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van der Water said:
Of course I also want to do my own test, so I borrowed two
new UB121100 that were never recharged and started cycling
first one, then the other in the past days.
I charged the first with a lab supply set to 10A max, 14.9V max
according the max voltage value in the spec (15V) and I loaded
the battery with 75A until voltage drops to 10.5 and measure
the time to calculate the capacity.
I saw that the first battery quickly lost capacity when it was
kept a few hours at 14.9V (mild gassing could be heard inside
the battery). I saw the capacity drop almost 20Ah over 5 cycles.
So I decided to test the 2nd battery with a charging voltage
no higher than 14.1V (the lowest recommended voltage in the spec)
and after only 3 cycles it is hard to draw a conclusion but the
capacity is constant at 75Ah, I will make at least 10 cycles to
see if the capacity will "grow" as it is supposed to in the
break-in period.
My question is: is this the right way to break-in or test batteries? I
thought 10.5 volts was flatline dead voltage for a battery, and that going
totally dead reduced lifespan and capacity for most batteries. SHould the
batteries be drawn down to 80% DOD - ~11.6 volts - instead?
(Note: I am almost totally ignorant about this.)
Kluge
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:10:06 -0700, "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Boy we are getting our share of foolish statments today Aren't We????
>The Fastest Ev dragster can do 150 plus with stout AGMs
>We have a bike that ran 150. So... even 300 MPH ... for Top Fuel and Funny
>Car. We are 1/2 way there.
Yes, silly. Given that power required increases with the cube of
velocity, at 150 mph, you're barely out of the gates toward 300.
Anyone who's joined the 200 mph street car club (75 Datsun 280Z in my
case) know that the span from 150 to 200 requires about the same
increment of power as getting to 150.
>
>Keep in mind we have our share of 100 mph Street cars... Not 100 Dragsters,
>But street cars.
>
>And the 300 mph crowd has 100s of thousands of dollars a year in
>sponsorship. Even our fastest EV Bike and dragsters.. have maybe $50,000
>invested in them Even our fastest doesn't rate more than a
>a Hobbiest in the cashflow that the Big boys burn through even on a normal
>weekend.
>
>If You gave 100,000 Bucks to any of us racers... and we will be over 150 and
>headed to 200 in months if not weeks.
>
>Can you imagine John Force doing a EV just few million to play with??? 5
>seconds and 300 IS possible with the right funding and team.
>
I've seen this claim or one similar from several people. Now I'm
curious. Please describe the path you'd take to get to 300 mph if you
did have a megabuck. No details necessary. Just assume a black box
full of FM (fsking magic) as the interface between the energy storage
and the motor. Just getting enough energy onboard and delivering it
rapidly enough to run that fast will be hard enough. I've been
noodling some numbers around and I just don't see it, even with a
combo of exotic batteries and some sort of ultra-high rate energy
buffer - superconducting flywheel or ???
Even 200 in the quarter seems virtually impossible to me. I'd
certainly be pleased to be enlightened.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> Subject: I Can't Afford My Gasoline
>>
>>
>> Won't be long........
>>
>>
>> TURN YOUR SPEAKERS UP
>>
>>
>> I thought you would enjoy I Can't Afford My Gasoline.
>>
>> Here's the link: http://toccionline.kizash.com/films/1001/178/index.php
>>
>> Pretty funny!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.19/93 - Release Date: 9/8/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Noel
Most of the so called aero stuff doesn't work at all on low speeds.
If you want to calc out the reynolds you'll find out they generally
are just tripping airflow not redirecting it. Whitcomb winglets work
on a 747 but only help improve things about 3%, won't even notice that
much on a car but on something flying a couple thousand miles in a shot
it does. The reason they don't work on shorter distances is that the
aircraft usually isn't in stable flight long enough to get them to work.
The gimicky wing might look ok but won't really do bugger all. His
cd coe drops a huge huge amount which is not reflected by his results.
He would have actualy done something if he made a smooth belly pan etc
and cleaned up the ugly side of the car, that would make a big difference.
Dave
> Hi John,
>
> I agree with you... I always wanted winglets on my sailplane for
> that purpose. Could these be designed to assist in stabilizing
> the car in windy conditions? Thinking out loud here but the
> "winglets" could assist in channeling the airflow rearward
> thereby reducing turbulent airflow. Similar to how winglets
> reduce spanward flow in an A/C.
>
> How this would work in comparing my old sailplanes 20 meter
> wingspan vrs the 4 foot Bettle wing is beyond my knowledge. Any
> Aeronautical Engineers want to give it a go?
>
> Noel
>
>
>
> [The original message will be inserted by the server.]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "John Luck Home"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: 9/9/05 9:06:17 AM
> To: "ev@listproc.sjsu.edu"<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Modified that Beetle
>
> Not sure the guy who has made the mod fully understands aerodynamics. The
> purpose of winglets on Aircraft is to reduce vortices where the high and
> low pressure on either side of the wings tries to equalize by moving air
> around the wing tip. These winglets (as fitted to Virgin 747 etc) do this
> job very well - but in a car !!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:43 PM
> Subject: Modified that Beetle
>
>
> > Hey Don,
> >
> > Did you see the refinement that this chap made to his Beetle to lower
> > the Coefficient of Drag (Cd) from .38 to .28 (estimated I assume).
> >
> > http://www.max-mpg.com/html/tech/main.htm
> >
> > Noel
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Don Cameron
> > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 2:20 PM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: RE: Long range RE: Frustr. of AC vs. DC; batt. tech. for
> > newbies; p
>
>
>
> [Message truncated. Tap Edit->Mark for Download to get remaining portion.]
>
> -----Unmodified Original Message-----
> Not sure the guy who has made the mod fully understands aerodynamics. The
> purpose of winglets on Aircraft is to reduce vortices where the high and
> low pressure on either side of the wings tries to equalise by moving air
> around the wing tip. These winglets (as fitted to Virgin 747 etc) do this
> job very well - but in a car !!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:43 PM
> Subject: Modified that Beetle
>
>
> > Hey Don,
> >
> > Did you see the refinement that this chap made to his Beetle to lower
> > the Coefficient of Drag (Cd) from .38 to .28 (estimated I assume).
> >
> > http://www.max-mpg.com/html/tech/main.htm
> >
> > Noel
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Don Cameron
> > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 2:20 PM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: RE: Long range RE: Frustr. of AC vs. DC; batt. tech. for
> > newbies; philosophizing
> >
> > Jerry, good point. A lighter vehicle and or more aero vehicle is a
> > great way to improve range. If there is one lesson I have learned with
> > the New Beetle is that it is **not** a small or lightweight car.
> > Nowhere similar to its predecessor.
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Victoria, BC, Canada
> >
> > See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.19/93 - Release Date:
> 08/09/2005
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You need to be on the Zappy list. They'll fix you right up. LR.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Buford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:29 PM
Subject: My Second EV!!!
Well,
I purchase my second EV over the labor day weekend.
A Zooma Electric Scooter (my first EV is my B&D
Electric Lawnmower:-)From Kragen! 350W 24v SLA batt.
So far I've taken it out each day for 4 days. Eack
time a bit farther. Longest trip was today. About 2.5
mi out and made it back about 1.5 mi. Battery started
to drop. I think I adjusted the rear brake too
tight:-(
Does anyone have a link to a goos scooter list or know
anything about these scooters? This one seems to be
built fairly well. I weigh 220 (down from 260) and it
moves right along for me. I'm thinking 36v might make
give it a bit more pep. Anyone hpped one of these up
yet.
Here's a link to what ti looks like and parts that are
avaiable.
http://www.scooterparts4less.com/Zooma_Electric_Scooter_parts.htm
Thanks
Joe
______________________________________________________
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Most EVer's I know usually wind up selling a used EV for around the cost of
the parts new. That's been my experience. They want to get on to the next
project or dump it. LR.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:59 PM
Subject: Used EV's
At 02:41 PM 9/9/2005, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
If I bought a used EV conversion/scooter/whatever. Pound per pound it will
be cheaper per mile than any ICE vehicle. That's the truth. The average
used Ev is about 5k. I know of an Electravan 600 for 3900.
Umm, WHERE is the average used EV for 5K?
I just checked the EV Trading Post, and I think there were 2 in the 4-5K
range, and a bunch above that.
Is the EV Trading Post the only one of the Used EV listing sites left?
None of my other links to various lists of EV's for sale work anymore.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There you go I checked three sites and found 17 cars in 5 minutes.
LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: Used EV's
ditto, I'd like lists of sites showing EVs for sale
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/ 6 around 5k
http://www.eaasv.org/ 8 around 5k
http://www.eaaev.org/ 3 cars
http://www.evadc.org/for_sale..html
http://www.phoenixeaa.com/
http://www.nbeaa.org/sale.htm
http://home.att.net/~NCSDCA/EVAoSD/forsale.htm
http://neeaa.org/forsale.htm
http://www.lveva.org/For_Sale/for_sale.html
http://www.oeva.org/forsale/
.
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Copied to EVDL for the benefit of others, esp. newbies:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Cwarman,
For 156V you'd pick DCDC250/144/14 model, but be aware
that DCDC250 power is very low - 16A continuous
is barely enough to keep headlights on.
It is OK if you also have 12V battery and just want to
keep it charged by DC-DC but battery does most the work.
If you want to run accessories in the car directly
from DC-DC rather than from the 12V battery and want
to use battery only for peak loads, choose DCDC600 instead.
The shipping is $9 (Fedex ground), the converter cost
is on the price list ($359). This is first time I'm importing
these so not sure for the lead time: expect ~3 weeks.
Thanks,
Victor
From: Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 2005/09/09 Fri PM 03:54:43 PDT>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: DC DC converter
Victor,
Saw your post on the EVDL about the DC DC converters. As you can tell
> if you have read any of my posts on the lists is that im really new to
> EV, and right now on my first conversion. Im converting a 1997 Chevy
> S10 as a daily commuter.
Im interested in your DCDC250 DC DC converter.
Will with this work for my conversion with a alterative battery
I have Warp9 DC motor Zilla1k Controller Running Group 27
> 12vlt 2 string batterys at 156vlt.
Let me know the final cost with shipping and how i can order
Thanks Cwarman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Dave,
So is your view that he made up his Cd reduction and the wing is just extra
weight?
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: "Gnat"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 9/9/05 4:57:17 PM
To: "ev@listproc.sjsu.edu"<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Modified that Beetle
Noel
Most of the so called aero stuff doesn't work at all on low speeds.
If you want to calc out the reynolds you'll find out they generally
are just tripping airflow not redirecting it. Whitcomb winglets work
on a 747 but only help improve things about 3%, won't even notice that
much on a car but on something flying a couple thousand miles in a shot
it does. The reason they don't work on shorter distances is that the
aircraft usually isn't in stable flight long enough to get them to work.
The gimicky wing might look ok but won't really do bugger all. His
cd coe drops a huge huge amount which is not reflected by his results.
He would have actualy done something if he made a smooth belly pan etc
and cleaned up the ugly side of the car, that would make a big difference.
Dave
> Hi John,
>
> I agree with you... I always wanted winglets on my sailplane for
> that purpose. Could these be designed to assist in stabilizing
> the car in windy conditions? Thinking out loud here but the
> "winglets" could assist in channeling the airflow rearward
> thereby reducing turbulent airflow. Similar to how winglets
> reduce spanward flow in an A/C.
>
> How this would work in comparing my old sailplanes 20 meter
> wingspan vrs the 4 foot Bettle wing is beyond my knowledge. Any
> Aeronautical Engineers want to give it a go?
>
> Noel
>
>
>
> [The original message will be inserted by the server.]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "John Luck Home"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: 9/9/05 9:06:17 AM
> To: "ev@listproc.sjsu.edu"<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Modified that Beetle
>
> Not sure the guy who has made the mod fully understands aerodynamics. The
> purpose of winglets on Aircraft is to reduce vortices where the high and
> low pressure on either side of the wings tries to equalize by moving air
> around the wing tip. These winglets (as fitted to Virgin 747 etc) do this
> job very well - but in a car !!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:43 PM
> Subject: Modified that Beetle
>
>
> > Hey Don,
> >
> > Did you see the refinement that this chap made to his Beetle to lower
> > the Coefficient of Drag (Cd) from .38 to .28 (estimated I assume).
> >
> > http://www.max-mpg.com/html/tech/main.htm
> >
> > Noel
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Don Cameron
> > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 2:20 PM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: RE: Long range RE: Frustr. of AC vs. DC; batt. tech. for
> > newbies; p
>
>
>
> [Message truncated. Tap Edit->Mark for Download to get remaining portion.]
>
> -----Unmodified Original Message-----
> Not sure the guy who has made the mod fully understands aerodynamics. The
> purpose of winglets on Aircraft is to reduce vortices where the high and
> low pressure on either side of the wings tries to equalise by moving air
> around the wing tip. These winglets (as fitted to Virgin 747 etc) do this
> job very well - but in a car !!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:43 PM
> Subject: Modified that Beetle
>
>
> > Hey Don,
> >
> > Did you see the refinement that this chap made to his Beetle to lower
> > the Coefficient of Drag (Cd) from .38 to .28 (estimated I assume).
> >
> > http://www.max-mpg.com/html/tech/main.htm
> >
> > Noel
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Don Cameron
> > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 2:20 PM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: RE: Long range RE: Frustr. of AC vs. DC; batt. tech. for
> > newbies; philosophizing
> >
> > Jerry, good point. A lighter vehicle and or more aero vehicle is a
> > great way to improve range. If there is one lesson I have learned with
> > the New Beetle is that it is **not** a small or lightweight car.
> > Nowhere similar to its predecessor.
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Victoria, BC, Canada
> >
> > See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.19/93 - Release Date:
> 08/09/2005
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:24 AM 9/09/05 -0700, Rich Rudman wrote:
I have a problem with this statment.<snip>
What don't I know?
Educate me....
Sorry Rich, I didn't meant to imply that they couldn't take care of AGMs
successfully when used with a random (as in anyones') charger. I was
attempting to point out that if the charger hasn't enough smarts (like
mine) then the regs are at risk of being over-driven, or the batteries
under charged if the charger is turned back to the point where there is
little risk of damaging the regulators.
A charger that already is designed to do a good CC/CV profile (as in not
dumb-as-a-brick, and priced accordingly) should (if set up correctly) be
enhanced by regs with no direct feedback.
However (and this is the catch with no direct feedback) if the batteries
are too far out of balance and the charger is still in bulk phase when the
first regulator cuts in, the regulator can be overheated - acknowleged by
you to be an issue, and dealt with by implementing your regbus. But if the
charger cannot accept Regbus signals, another solution is needed.
My solution is to use the regulators as the entire voltage sensing for the
charging system. A couple of low-cost PLCs will be used to collate the
regulator signals. An optocoupler in where the "regulating" LED is normally
on each reg brings the signals out to a common potential (the vehicle
system voltage). The profile becomes as follows:
Bulk charge (as hard as the charger/supply can go) until the first
regulator signals, then switch the charger back to a lower rate that the
regs can cope with (manualy determined initially). Once all of the regs
have signalled, a timer runs for maybe 10 min, then shut off. The PLCs
allow for adding such safeties as a maximum time between the first reg
firing and shutoff. I can also (still thinking about this one) add a CI
stage after the normal cycle, probably one in 5 or 10 charge cycles.
The extra that I have added, and my dumb-as-a-brick charger, I will have
built here, and can fix here, on the other side of the world to you. And it
will be cheaper than your charger, although not anything like as flexible.
Not PFC, but with 15A at 240V everywhere I want to charge, that's not an
issue.
The only thing I have against your charger is if it breaks (there is a
lightning storm at the moment, so I'd better switch off in a mo'), I am
thousands of miles away. If I were building EVs for customers, I would want
to use your chargers, since a spare charger could be kept on shelf and
dialled up to be whatever the customer needed.
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That "twisted spline" is actually quiet common...because I don't think
it is a spline but a gear profile and I would say it was hobbed. It
probably drives a reduction gear on input to get the initial rpm's down
and the torque up. It looks like a spline because the diameter is so
small.
I would love to get my hands on one or more of those motors, but $2000
each is comical, I wouldn't pay that without warrenties and proof(if I
had it)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is it better to have the contactor on all the time or have it kick in every
time you put the foot to the pedal. My Electravan kicks in the contactor
every time you touch the pedal. I wired the Aspire to have the contactor
come on when the 12v system was powered up through the normal Ignition key.
Pro's and Con's?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Kluge,
The circumstance is the *loaded* voltage, while DOD is measured
at resting voltage.
The battery goes to 10.5V under 75A load, as soon as this limit
is reached and the load disconnected they recover to around 12V
(60 to 70% DOD) which can be seen by allowing it to sit for a
few hours, then it can be loaded another 10 minutes before
dropping to 10.5V again. After the second run it will recover
to around 11.6 - 11.8V which is about 80% DOD and I will not
take it any lower.
Hope this clarifies,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3673 eFAX: +31-84-717-9972
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Kluge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:38 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Cc: Cor van de Water
Subject:
Cor van der Water said:
Of course I also want to do my own test, so I borrowed two
new UB121100 that were never recharged and started cycling
first one, then the other in the past days.
I charged the first with a lab supply set to 10A max, 14.9V max
according the max voltage value in the spec (15V) and I loaded
the battery with 75A until voltage drops to 10.5 and measure
the time to calculate the capacity.
I saw that the first battery quickly lost capacity when it was
kept a few hours at 14.9V (mild gassing could be heard inside
the battery). I saw the capacity drop almost 20Ah over 5 cycles.
So I decided to test the 2nd battery with a charging voltage
no higher than 14.1V (the lowest recommended voltage in the spec)
and after only 3 cycles it is hard to draw a conclusion but the
capacity is constant at 75Ah, I will make at least 10 cycles to
see if the capacity will "grow" as it is supposed to in the
break-in period.
My question is: is this the right way to break-in or test batteries? I
thought 10.5 volts was flatline dead voltage for a battery, and that going
totally dead reduced lifespan and capacity for most batteries. SHould the
batteries be drawn down to 80% DOD - ~11.6 volts - instead?
(Note: I am almost totally ignorant about this.)
Kluge
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:17:31 -0700
Close, except for one thing:
If someone is using sniping software, you are doomed to whatever their max
price is.
True. But, even if they are not using sniping software, you are still
doomed to whatever their max price is. They can bid anytime during the
auction and you cannot win it for less than their bid.
If you bid early, you will only cause the auction price to creep
up, good for the seller, but not good for you. Best way to defeat sniping
is to either use sniping software or bid your max amount within the last 5
seconds of the auction. This way the bid will not creep up, potentially
causing a bid frenzy.
If everyone bids the most they are willing to pay, then it doesn't matter
when anyone places his bid.
BUT, it may be true, as you say, that by bidding late, those who do not bid
intelligiently will miss out, and you will win the item at a lower price. (
By bidding intelligently, I mean bidding the most you are willing to pay. )
Some people obviously do not bid intelligently; they wait to see what others
bid before raising their own bids. These are the people you can fool by
bidding late.
And, by bidding your maximum - anytime during the auction- no one can fool
YOU by bidding late.
Pay no attention to any other bids. Just bid the most you are willing to
pay. ( And, doing it in the last five seconds, as you suggest, can't hurt)
A competing bidder can't win unless he is willing to pay more than you are.
If he is ( and he bids it - even with 0.1 second left ) , he deserves to
win. That's how auctions are supposed to work.
Phil Marino
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Philip Marino
Sent: September 9, 2005 8:02 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Kilovac score on Ebay (and sniping)
Congratulations, Eric
I was the only other bidder. I was just looking for spares, so I didn't
bid
very high.
Here's a suggestion about getting " sniped". Just bid the maximum you are
willing to pay for the item(and, bid early). Then, you can't complain if
someone else is willing to pay more than you are - no matter when they
place
their bid.
Phil Marino
Echo in progress
>From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Managed to pick up a Kilovac EV250-2A (Czonka II) and a Kilovac
EV200AAANA
>(Czonka III) on ebay. $90 for both, including shipping. Both are new,
>12V coil, with economizers.
>
>After getting sniped on a lot of 10 Vicor 150 to 12VDC 200W power
>supplies, it was nice to get a good deal. I'm pretty stoked. The
>EV250 alone retails for $300+
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My guess, and I'd love to try it out some time, is that that motor and
casting are made to match up to some standard tranny parts. Getting this
info is tricky. Even when 4 companies make most the guts to
transmissions, the information, sizes, and specs is top secret.
I haven't gotten their full catalog yet but if you look at item 15 in
the drive train of the transmission on
http://www.slauson.com/demo.html demo site, you will se a carrier of
planet gears, I've had these in my hand and often they are helical cut
and would fit such a shaft. I recognize the little square recesses in
the alumionum face plate as common inside automatic transmissions for
reaction drum holding.
Does anyone have more details of the end of this motor?
--- End Message ---
